Why Tombstone is the Greatest Movie Ever

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00:05

Richard Sluggs.

00:06

Don't any of you have the guts to play for blood? I'm your huckleberry.

00:13

That's just my game.

00:15

We're going to talk about the greatest movie ever made.

00:18

Yes.

00:18

Now, when I was interviewing you, I got to see inside of your office.

00:22

In fact, I posted yesterday, I posted a picture of us together.

00:25

I said, it's the first time I've met you in person.

00:26

And somebody said, but you said you saw the inside of his office.

00:28

But it was digital.

00:30

I saw a video of the inside of your office.

00:32

And the video of the inside of your office behind you is a poster from the film Tombstone.

00:38

Yes.

00:39

What makes it so good from your perspective? Well, Keith, you know, if you understand the history of America's cinema.

00:47

Yeah.

00:49

You realize that it's the Western that is the best of the best.

00:56

Some of the best movies ever made have been Westerns.

01:00

Okay.

01:01

And I would argue that Tombstone is right up there.

01:05

If not the best, then it is very, very close.

01:10

And I think that there are a lot of reasons why you can become a Tombstone enthusiast.

01:17

Okay.

01:17

Okay.

01:18

Let's go through a couple of those.

01:19

But first, you said it was right up there.

01:20

What's another one? True Grit? What would be one that you'd put with it? Well, you know, I love Westerns.

01:26

I love Open Range.

01:29

Okay.

01:29

Kevin Costner and Robert Duvall.

01:31

Yeah.

01:32

I thought it was absolutely excellent.

01:34

The Coen Brothers remake of True Grit, absolutely fantastic.

01:39

Yeah.

01:40

Clint Eastwood's The Unforgiven.

01:42

Oh, man.

01:42

Just really something else.

01:45

Yeah.

01:46

Unforgiven has one of the greatest.

01:48

Well, they all have great lines.

01:50

But Unforgiven has where the man's, the writer is talking to Gene.

01:57

And Gene Hackman is one of my favorite actors.

01:59

My best Lex Luthor.

02:01

I'm a Superman fan, so he's Lex Luthor.

02:02

But he's riding, and the water's dripping in the ceiling.

02:06

It looks like he needed to shoot The Carpenter, and he had built the house himself.

02:10

And I just always, it's those types of touches that makes movies like that great.

02:14

Yes.

02:14

Yes.

02:15

All right.

02:15

So, but Tombstone for you.

02:17

What's the? So, I love Old West history.

02:22

Okay.

02:22

To begin with.

02:23

And I have read numerous books on Wyatt Earp, Tombstone.

02:30

Just recently read Ride the Devil's Herd.

02:34

And so, first of all, I find the period of history to be absolutely fascinating.

02:41

But then beyond that, you end up having one of the most colorful figures in Old West history with Wyatt Earp.

02:51

Okay.

02:51

I thought you were going to say Doc Holliday.

02:53

Well, you know, Doc Holliday, by the way, Val Kilmer nails it as Doc Holliday.

03:00

Yeah.

03:00

No doubt.

03:02

But Wyatt Earp ends up being just one of the most colorful figures.

03:06

Yeah.

03:07

I mean, probably right next to Wild Bill Hickok.

03:11

Yeah.

03:12

And so, here you have a movie that's about one of the most iconic Old West figures.

03:19

And it's a movie that ends up revolving in some ways around the most famous shootout in Old West history.

03:28

Yeah.

03:28

Yeah.

03:29

Obviously, the shootout at the O.K.

03:31

Corral.

03:31

Yeah.

03:32

And so, you have this story.

03:35

And by the way, let me just say that the story of the Earps and Tombstone and the Cowboys is much bigger than what they could fit into the movie.

03:44

Sure.

03:45

Right? Yeah.

03:45

And that's fascinating in and of itself.

03:48

But here you have, in a sense, just one of the most classic themes.

03:54

Yeah.

03:54

And you have some of the most classic characters, you know, the Earp brothers.

04:01

I mean, Virgil Earp himself was, you know, just a phenomenal lawman.

04:06

In fact, in terms of lawmen, he probably was the purest of the lawmen of the Earp brothers, although they all had sordid pasts.

04:14

Yeah.

04:15

Yeah.

04:16

I've done a little research into it.

04:17

I know what you're talking about.

04:18

Yeah.

04:19

Yeah.

04:19

Which, of course, would have sullied the movie some.

04:22

Yeah.

04:23

But then add to that, you have a movie that is almost perfectly cast.

04:30

Yeah.

04:32

I don't think, you know, because Kevin Costner's Wyatt Earp movie came out at about the same time, right? I was going to ask you about that.

04:40

Yeah, because you've got Dennis Quaid playing Doc Holliday.

04:44

Much different take.

04:45

Yes.

04:46

Everything's so different.

04:47

Yes.

04:47

Yeah.

04:48

And, I mean, when you get right down to it, you read about Earp's character, you read.

04:56

And here's the funny thing, is it because it's recent history.

05:00

Yeah.

05:01

It's not that long ago.

05:03

Yeah.

05:03

So you have court records, you have interviews, you have a lot of stuff that's incredibly accessible, which actually is just a gold mine for historians.

05:13

And I think Kurt Russell as Wyatt Earp was perfect.

05:18

Sam Elliott as Virgil Earp could not have done better.

05:23

Yeah.

05:23

In fact, I wish Virgil would have had maybe a little bigger role in the movie, but just fantastic.

05:32

You know, Val Kilmer as Doc Holliday, my goodness.

05:37

Yeah.

05:37

It was probably the performance of his career.

05:43

Yeah, it's the one everybody quotes.

05:45

Yeah.

05:45

I'm your Huckleberry, all that stuff.

05:47

Yeah, absolutely.

05:47

So you have this perfect, even the Cowboys, you know, with Powers Booth, who played.

05:55

Oh, man.

05:56

Yeah.

05:56

You know, Curly Bill Brosius.

05:58

Yeah.

05:58

Right.

05:58

Who really was one of the most notorious murderous outlaws in the Southwest.

06:07

You know.

06:08

And who was the one who he pointed the gun at, so make your head into a canoe.

06:12

That was, he was one of the Cowboys.

06:15

Oh, that was Ike Clanton.

06:16

Ike Clanton.

06:16

Didn't his family like, like get upset because it portrayed him more of as a coward? Maybe I heard that somewhere, but because in the movie he does come off somewhat cowardly.

06:26

Yes, he does.

06:27

Yeah.

06:28

And so Stephen Lang plays Ike Clanton.

06:31

Okay.

06:32

And I think he does a brilliant job.

06:35

The complaint sometimes is that Ike Clanton actually was a fairly educated guy.

06:41

Oh, okay.

06:42

And he was more of a schemer.

06:45

He was still a criminal.

06:46

He was an outlaw.

06:47

He was a rustler.

06:48

These guys were bad people.

06:50

Yeah.

06:50

But he was, he was more intelligent than he came across.

06:58

Michael Biehn as Johnny Ringo.

07:01

Yes.

07:01

I mean.

07:02

And the Latin scene.

07:03

Oh, yeah.

07:04

Unbelievable.

07:05

Absolutely.

07:06

You know.

07:06

Now the movie does have some flaws.

07:08

Sure.

07:08

And of course you have to take some, some liberties in making a movie.

07:12

For instance.

07:13

Like The Chosen? Yeah.

07:17

Something like that.

07:18

Yeah.

07:19

Not exactly.

07:21

But Johnny Ringo almost certainly committed suicide.

07:25

Oh, yeah.

07:26

I've heard that.

07:27

Yeah.

07:28

Both Wyatt Earp and Doc Holliday were probably in Colorado when he, when he was found dead.

07:34

And then there are some things that are obviously left out.

07:38

A lot of the back story is left out.

07:39

There's a lot of political stuff that's going on.

07:43

You have the counties being divided up at that point.

07:47

You know.

07:48

Pima County is about to have Cochise County added.

07:53

And that meant a lot of money.

07:55

Being a sheriff meant a lot of money.

07:58

You got money from, you collected taxes as the sheriff.

08:02

And you got to keep a cut.

08:04

Oh, wow.

08:05

You know.

08:05

So the average.

08:07

It's like a tax collector in biblical times.

08:08

Yeah.

08:08

Exactly.

08:09

And Earp wanted that job very, very badly.

08:13

So there's a lot of back story that makes it even more fascinating.

08:17

But in my estimation, the characters, the cast, it was, it was just near perfection.

08:26

And I think you make a good argument.

08:28

Now, you are from.

08:30

Now, I mean, you live in Minden, Nevada.

08:32

I've heard that so many times because I listen to your sermons.

08:35

It says, you know, Grace Community Church in Minden, Nevada.

08:37

Is that where you're from? No, I'm originally from outside of Sacramento.

08:43

Okay.

08:44

But that's still out west.

08:45

So being out west.

08:46

Yeah.

08:46

I'm a western guy.

08:48

Does that lend to that part of your desire? Is it, I mean, just growing up around seeing those areas or is that just.

08:55

I think there's no doubt.

08:56

So if you grow up in, well, at least in the old days, not probably not today.

09:01

But if you grew up in California, like I'm a fifth generation Californian.

09:06

Oh, wow.

09:07

And.

09:08

I'm sorry.

09:08

Now, I lived in California during its great days, you know.

09:16

Yeah.

09:17

And if you were a school kid, you went and you lived in Northern California.

09:24

You went to Sutter's Fort, Sutter's Mill.

09:28

You went to where John Marshall discovered gold.

09:30

I mean, just, I mean, this was, these were your field trips, you know.

09:33

Yeah.

09:33

So you had that old west, you know, just kind of everywhere.

09:41

And then, you know, you grow up and my favorite shows, you know, Bonanza.

09:47

Right.

09:48

Which I'm really glad.

09:49

I live very close to where the Cartwrights lived.

09:53

I also have the Bonanza map on my back.

09:55

Yes.

09:56

That's right.

09:56

Now that I think about it, the Ponderosa.

09:58

Yeah.

09:59

And Gunsmoke and all of that.

10:00

And so part of that old west sort of that theme was very much a part of my childhood.

10:10

And I loved it and really still do.

10:13

Nice.

10:14

Nice.

10:14

Well, Brian, I want to thank you for sitting down with me today talking about a passion that you and I both have.

10:20

And that's movies.

10:21

And I'm going to finish with one last question.

10:24

Do you think it's okay? And you have to because we just had this conversation.

10:27

Because I've heard sometimes that the medium of film is something that Christians should avoid.

10:32

Do you think it's all right for us to enjoy film and that as an art form, as Christians, that we're not just wasting our time? Yeah, I do.

10:40

I think it's an acceptable form of entertainment.

10:46

And I think also that as Christians, if we have a Christian worldview, we don't come into watching the movie apart from that.

10:59

And so, in fact, in Tombstone, you remember the little religious conversation.

11:03

They're all walking out of the Birdcage Theater.

11:06

Yeah.

11:06

And Morgan asks, why do you believe in God? Remember that part? Yes.

11:12

Yeah.

11:13

Absolutely.

11:13

And so, yeah.

11:14

And what did he say? I can't remember.

11:16

Well, I don't know.

11:18

Yeah, he said, yes.

11:20

No.

11:21

And then, you know, oh, hell, I don't know.

11:23

Yeah.

11:24

Yeah.

11:25

Yeah.

11:27

And sadly, that's the way a lot of the world is.

11:29

Yeah.

11:29

Yeah.

11:30

Absolutely.

11:30

Yeah.

11:30

I agree.

11:31

I think when we talk about film, there's so much that even as Christians, Christian filmmakers.

11:37

I did a recent podcast where I talked about, you know, we think of Christian films as only being films like God's Not Dead as a Christian film.

11:49

But Christian films is more than that.

11:51

You know, you've got the C.S.

11:53

Lewis films, the Tolkien films.

11:55

But even a film like Tombstone, there's good and evil.

11:59

There's right and wrong.

12:00

And I know that, as you said, there's a sordid past.

12:03

But there's still, you know, the idea of righteousness and wickedness.

12:08

Yeah.

12:09

And the cowboys representing the wickedness.

12:11

Yeah.

12:11

And the Earps representing, in that sense, the ones who want to right the wrong.

12:17

Yeah.

12:18

In fact, even on that poster on Tombstone, the byline, justice is coming.

12:23

That's right.

12:24

And hell is coming with me.

12:27

Brother Brian, thank you so much.

12:29

Thanks a lot, Keith.

12:29

I appreciate it.

12:30

This was fun.

12:30

God bless.