Eternal Security? (White vs Matatics)

Debate Introduction and the Question of Eternal Security

Well, good evening. We sure appreciate your patience as well as your attendance for this evening's event. This should be a very stimulating opportunity for us to think together and go together. My name is Dan Smyth.

I'm one of the associate pastors here at Northwest Community Church. We want to thank you for taking your evening and joining us for this time. This evening we're going to be having the opportunity to think through two different perspectives regarding a statement that would be stated as this, a true Christian cannot cease to be a Christian and therefore lose his salvation.

That will be affirmed and denied from two different perspectives. And as we do this, I think it's very healthy for us to think about the benefit that a setting like this provides to us for growth and for maturity in our own walk with the Lord.

There's a statement that John R. W. Stott, a very well-known scholar both in America and England, has made in one of his books, Christ the Controversialist, where he says the proper activity of professing Christians who disagree with one another is neither to ignore nor to conceal nor even to minimize their differences, but to debate them.

In the light of these things, what is needed today between Protestants and Roman Catholics is not a premature outward show of unity, but a candid and serious dialogue. Some Protestants regard such conversation with Roman Catholics as compromising, but it need not be so.

The Greek verb from which it is derived is used in the Book of Acts for reasoning with people out of the Scriptures. This final statement I want to refer to you. Now, in such dialogue, theological definition is indispensable.

Two people cannot understand each other's convictions if they have not first taken time and trouble to express their own clearly. But we're going to have an opportunity for that to be presented to us this evening.

We're sure glad you've joined us, and I would like to invite you at this time to join me in prayer as we commit our time to the Lord. Father, we are very grateful for this opportunity that we can come together.

We do so in a desire to honor your great name, the beauty of your majesty, the glory of all that you've done for us in seeking us out, providing a way of redemption through Jesus Christ our Lord. We desire that this evening's time together would be something that would be beneficial for all of us here.

We most, Father, want to have you pleased with the way we conduct ourselves, so that as we leave, we would be better equipped for the calling that you've given to us as sons and daughters of God. Lord, we pray your blessing on both James and Jerry, their time of preparation and equipping for this time tonight, and for ourselves as listeners that we would all listen like those who desire to be taught and to grow.

So we do ask for many things tonight. We are confident that you can provide us the wisdom necessary to make this beneficial for the ongoing maturing processes of Christians that you have called us into.

We thank you for that in Christ Jesus. Amen. Let me take just a moment to introduce our speakers for this evening. To my left, we have James White. James is the Director of Ministries for Alpha and Omega, which is a ministry to counter-cult ministries and specializing in ministry to Mormons, Jehovah Witness, Catholics.

And James comes qualified with his training in a B .A. degree in Bible from Grand Canyon College, as well as a master's degree in theology from Fuller Theological Seminary. James is the author of four books, The Fatal Flaw, Answers to Catholic Claims, Letters to a Mormon Elder, and Justification by Faith.

To my right is Jerry Matitick, who has recently become a staff apologist for Catholic Answers, which is based in San Diego, California. Jerry holds a B .A. degree in Greek from the University of New Hampshire and holds a Master of Divinity degree from Gordon-Conwell Theological Seminary.

As well, he is currently a doctoral candidate at Westminster Theological Seminary. He's written many articles relating to the issues that we will be dialoguing about this evening. So you can see that both of these gentlemen have come very well qualified, and I would like to invite you to welcome them this evening for their time with us.

You maybe have not attended a debate before, and we want to just give you an outline very briefly before we start of what to expect and some guidelines that we can make this the most productive time possible.

We will have a schedule that will follow this particular outline. First of all, James, since he will be affirming the position that a true Christian cannot cease to be a Christian and therefore lose his salvation, since he is affirming that, he will go first for 20 minutes of opening statements, followed by Jerry's response of 20 minutes of his opening statements as well.

Then James will have his first rebuttal of 10 minutes, followed by Jerry's first rebuttal of 10 minutes. After that time, we will then have a 15-minute break where you can stand and stretch. The restrooms are located through the foyer on my right.

There's drinking fountains out there, there's book tables, and you can relax and stretch a little bit for 15 minutes prior to the second half of our time. Then we'll come back together for the second rebuttal, where James will start for five minutes, and then Jerry will have his second rebuttal for five minutes.

Then we will have a cross-examination period where there will be interchange between the two gentlemen, and I'll describe how that will be conducted when we get to that point, followed by two 10-minute closing comments, first by James and then by Jerry.

Now, in terms of how we participate as listeners, just a couple comments. We're dealing with a very significant subject tonight, which people come with very deep-seated convictions, and we want to invite you to show your appreciation to the speakers at very appropriate times.

Whenever a speaker has come to the conclusion of his presentation, which will be obvious by the closing of his comments, then we would invite you to show your appreciation for what has been shared through your applause.

We would discourage and ask you not to applaud during the speaking of either the gentleman's amens, hallelujahs, anything like that. Either affirmative or not affirmative would be inappropriate, because that could be very distracting to the speakers and what they're trying to communicate.

So if you follow those guidelines, we would sure appreciate that. At this point, then James will begin with his opening statements in affirming that a true Christian cannot cease to be a Christian and therefore.

Lose his salvation. It is very good to be with you this evening, and it's even better to have.

Jerry with us this evening. I was beginning to worry there that this was going to be a monologue debate, and I didn't think that would go too well at all. This evening we have come together to debate the issue that has been named in various ways, an issue that has been called the perseverance of the saints, the preservation of the saints, eternal security, a number of different names have been attached to it.

I think it is a very, very important subject from my personal perspective, because the fact that the subject strikes at the very heart of the gospel. From my perspective, this issue addresses the question, who saves?

Is it God alone? Is it man alone? Or is it God in cooperation with man in sort of a synergistic relationship? Is God dependent upon mankind to bring about the salvation of his elect? Obviously, the reformers certainly saw this issue as a very important and central issue, and they saw that it flowed from the real basis of salvation, and that is God's sovereignty and his grace.

But before I deal with the issue itself in regards to the positive presentation of the eternal security of the perseverance of the saints, I would like to mention what the debate is not about. The debate is not about whether we can have absolute knowledge or absolute certainty of anything.

The debate is not about whether I as an individual can have absolute certainty and knowledge of anything, let alone my own personal salvation. I am not saying that I can look at anyone else. I cannot look at any heart of a person out here and say with absolute knowledge and absolute certainty that I understand and know that any particular person is a Christian.

My heart, even as an individual who is redeemed in the blood of Jesus Christ, still has sin, and I still do not have perfect knowledge of myself, and so I can deceive myself and be deceived. And I certainly, if I can be deceived in regards to my own self, can be deceived in regards to other people.

So we are not talking about whether we can have absolute certainty of any subjective type about myself. The thesis statement is that a Christian, a true believing Christian, cannot cease to be a Christian and therefore lose their salvation.

This is a discussion about whether the Bible teaches that it's possible to be a Christian, to be in God's grace, and yet be removed from that situation, to no longer be under His grace, no longer be a Christian, in fact be under the wrath of God and be separated from Him for eternity.

This is not a debate about whether the Scriptures provide warnings or exhort us to examine ourselves. Instead, let me look at what the debate is about. First of all, I feel the debate is about the biblical teaching that a person who has been truly born again cannot possibly lose that gift of salvation that has been given to him.

It is about the sovereign will of God accomplishing that which God desires. It is about the grace of God being sufficient to save all those to whom it is given. It is about the sufficiency of the work of Jesus Christ on the cross in Calvary.

It is about the faithful obedience of the Son in doing the will of the Father in saving all those that the Father has given into His hands. It is about the power of the Holy Spirit who can accomplish His task of bringing the elect unto salvation.

And so we approach the question, does the Bible teach the person who has received the grace of God, has been regenerated or born again, justified by faith in Christ Jesus, can that person fail to receive eternal life and end up under the judgment of God?

To answer that question, I would answer it in two parts. The first part, very quickly, and I ask your indulgence in looking through these passages very quickly, would be to provide what I feel must be the theological foundation of the perseverance of the saints.

I do not believe that we can understand the Protestant perspective in regards to the perseverance of the saints if we do not begin by laying a firm foundation in regards to these issues. The first issue is the absolute sovereignty of God.

Psalm 135 verse 6 says, whatever the Lord pleases, He does in heaven and in earth, in the seas and in all deeps. And Ephesians 1 verse 11, our God is described as the one who works all things after the counsel of His will.

Primarily foundational to the perseverance of the saints is the concept that God Himself is sovereign, that He can and will accomplish His purpose in this world. Secondly, the eternal purpose of God is to bring the elect unto salvation.

In Ephesians chapter 1 verses 4 through 6 we read, just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before Him. In love He predestined us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the kind intention of His will, to the praise of the glory of His grace, which He freely bestowed on us in the Beloved.

It is God's eternal purpose to bring those that He has chosen in Christ Jesus unto salvation and that unto His own glory. Thirdly, when we look at the sovereignty of God and salvation, we see that in regards to the individual salvation of the person, not just simply the church as a whole, but the individual salvation of the individual, that God is sovereign.

First Corinthians chapter 1 verses 9 and then 30 through 31 we read, God is faithful through whom you were called into fellowship with His Son, Jesus Christ our Lord. But by His doing you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God and righteousness and sanctification and redemption.

That just as it is written, let him who boasts, boast in the Lord. And then that famous passage in John chapter 3, when Nicodemus encounters the Lord Jesus. What does Jesus say to him? Truly, truly I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.

A person cannot even see the kingdom of God, much less desire to enter into it, until first God has moved in his life and has given to him spiritual life, caused him to be born again. Fourthly, foundationally we must understand the complete sufficiency of the work of Jesus Christ.

There is nothing that can be added to the work of Jesus Christ. In Galatians chapter 3 verse 13, Paul tells us that Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us. For it is written, cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree.

The death of Jesus Christ accomplishes that which it is intended to accomplish. It does not simply make a possibility. It does not simply make salvation a possibility. Christ actually redeemed those for whom he died in his death on the cross.

And finally, it is based upon the perseverance of the saints, is based upon the justification of the one who is of the faith of Christ. Romans 3 .24 tells us that we have been justified as a gift by his grace through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus.

The redeemed stand before God justified, made righteous in the blood of Jesus Christ. They have been declared by the heavenly judge to be right in God's sight. These things are foundational to our understanding of the perseverance of the saints.

But aside from these things, does the Bible actually teach us that the saints individually will persevere in their faith? I believe that the Bible does and I would invite you to look with me at the scriptures and see if this is not so.

First Corinthians chapter 1. Please turn with me there. First Corinthians chapter 1, beginning at the end of verse 7. I read part of this verse just a few moments ago. First Corinthians chapter 1, verses 7 through 9, where we read that we are awaiting eagerly the revelation of our Lord Jesus Christ, who shall also confirm you to the end, blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ.

God is faithful through whom you were called into fellowship with his Son, Jesus Christ our Lord. Hear what Paul says to the Corinthians. Who is it who shall confirm us to the end? It is the Lord Jesus Christ who will confirm us to the end, blameless in his day.

God is the one who is faithful to us, just as Paul says in Philippians chapter 1, verse 6. For I am confident of this very thing, that he who began a good work in you will perfect it or continue it until the day of Jesus Christ.

Paul's confidence was not in the Philippians. Paul's confidence was in the one who had saved the Philippians, had drawn the Philippians unto himself. That is God. He was confident that God would continue and complete and perfect the work that he had begun in the Philippians.

Then in Ephesians chapter 1, I invite you to turn there. Ephesians chapter 1, verses 13 through 14. Ephesians chapter 1, verses 13 through 14. After that tremendous passage affirming the absolute sovereignty of God in calling the elect unto himself, Paul says in verses 13 through 14, in him you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation, having also believed, you were sealed in him with the Holy Spirit of promise, who is given as a pledge of our inheritance with a view to the redemption of God's own possession to the praise of his glory.

Listen to the words that are used by the apostle to describe those who in the immediately preceding section were described as those who had been chosen by God. They are sealed, sealed in Christ, sealed how?

With the Holy Spirit of promise. The Holy Spirit indwelling the life of the individual is a promise. A promise of what? He is not only described as a promise, but he is given as a pledge of our inheritance.

This pledge of our inheritance tells us that this is to a view, Paul says, of the redemption of God's own possession. Who is God's own possession? Those who are indwelt by the Holy Spirit of promise. Those who have the Holy Spirit as a pledge of our inheritance.

We are described as God's own possession, and this is a down payment, a pledge payment, the term refers to in the original language, that God is promising to complete the work that he has begun in the life of his own possession, his own individual, and that again, Paul says, to the praise of his glory.

If the process in which God has begun in the life of a Christian can end and the person can cease being a Christian and can no longer be in fellowship with God, how does God receive glory from that, I must ask you?

The scriptures do not teach that that is the case. Ephesians 2, 5, the very next chapter. Ephesians chapter 2, verse 5. You may have looked at this passage before and in different translations, it is rendered in different ways, but frequently it is just simply the last phrase in Ephesians 2, 5 is set apart by a parenthesis or by dashes in some of the modern translations, but this passage in the Greek text is what is known as a periphrastic construction.

You have a perfect passive participle and a finite verb. What does that mean? Well, if you brought out all of the nuances and so on and so forth of the language, Paul says it is by grace you have been saved.

By grace you have been saved, and that is as a past action, as a past completed action, you have been saved through the instrumentality of grace. Not through the instrumentality of works, not through the instrumentality of obediences to any gospel rules or principles, you have been saved solely through the instrumentality of grace, and you remain saved to this time because of that grace.

Dr. Kenneth Wiest of the Moody Bible Institute said that in his opinion this is one of the clearest enunciations of the doctrine of eternal security in the New Testament, that by grace we have been saved and we remain in that state because of God's grace.

A couple of the passages I'd like to get to, 1 Peter 1, verse 5. 1 Peter 1, 5. Peter tells us that we are protected by the power of God through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

We are protected by the power of God through faith. Well, it might be said, yes, we are protected by the power of God, but notice on what basis? Through faith. And if our faith falters, and if our faith ends, then we are no longer protected by the power of God and therefore could possibly lose our salvation.

However, I'd point out to you that faith, true saving faith in the New Testament, is pictured to us and presented to us by the text itself as the gift of God, as the gift of God. For example, Hebrews 12, 2 talks about fixing our eyes on Jesus, the author and perfecter of faith.

The two terms refer to the author, the origin, the source, and the perfecter, the finisher, the completer of faith. This is the role of Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ is the one who perfects faith. He is the one who authors this kind of faith, and therefore it is a true saving faith that is spoken of here.

And of course, in 2 Peter 1, 1, Peter wrote, Simon Peter, a bondservant, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to those who have received a faith of the same kind as ours. Faith is pictured as something that has been received by the individual Christian.

Therefore, it is the gift of God. Now my time is flying away from me. There are a number of other passages that hopefully in the time that we have left this evening, we'll have an opportunity to examine.

But I want to ask you to turn with me especially to John chapter 6. For I believe that in all of Scripture, there is no clearer, stronger enunciation of the security of the believer in Jesus Christ, the perseverance of the saints, the fact that the saints will persevere in their salvation, because this is the work of God in their life, than John chapter 6, beginning at verse 37.

Hear the words of our Lord Jesus Christ. All that the Father gives me shall come to me, and the one who comes to me I will certainly not cast out. For I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will, but the will of Him who sent me.

And this is the will of Him who sent me, that of all that He has given me, I lose nothing, but raise it up on the last day. Now I want you to think with me quickly about these passages. All that the Father gives me shall come to me.

There is no question or hesitancy in the words of our Lord Jesus Christ. There is no question in His mind that those that the Father as a gift of grace have given to the Son will come to the Son. There can be no question of this.

And as a result of this, Jesus says, the one who comes to me I will certainly not cast out. It is a strong negative in the Greek language. It is a denial of the possibility that this situation can arise, that one who comes to Jesus Christ, and clearly in this context it is one who has been given by the Father to the Son, could possibly ever be cast out by the Lord Jesus Christ.

But notice what the rest of the passage says, for this in my opinion is some of the strongest evidence. What does our Lord Jesus say? He says, I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will, but the will of Him who sent me.

And what is the will of the Father for the Son? And this is the will of Him who sent me, that of all that He has given me, I lose nothing, but raise it up on the last day. The will of the Father for the Son is that the Son not lose any of those that have been given to Him.

None that the Father has placed into the Son's hands will be lost, because it is the Father's will that the Son not lose them. Now think with me for just a moment. If it were possible for a person to be given by the Father to the Son, to come to know Jesus Christ as His Savior, to be known by Jesus Christ, Jesus says in John 10, I know my sheep and my sheep know me.

The reciprocal relationship has occurred. Salvation has been given to this individual. He has been justified by faith. If it is possible for that person to be lost, then what we are indeed saying is that it is possible for the Son to fail to do the will of the Father.

Now I realize that no one who denies the perseverance of the saints is purposefully attempting to say that the Son would not obey the Father's will, or the Son does not have the power or the might to accomplish the task that has been given to Him by the Father.

But that does not change the fact that according to Jesus' own words in this passage, it is the Father's will for Him to not lose anything that the Father has given to Him, but raise it up on the last day.

And what does that mean here in John chapter 6? What is raising up on the last day? It is used as an exact synonym of giving them eternal life. So, the perseverance of the saints does not deny that God works in our lives.

It does not deny that we are going to be obedient to Him. It does not deny the saving faith of which I spoke earlier does not bring about a change in the individual. What the perseverance of the saints presents is simply this, that God is sovereign in the matter of salvation, God can accomplish His will in giving us faith, saving faith, and the Lord Jesus Christ is powerful enough to accomplish the task that has been assigned to Him by the Father.

The assurance that is ours when we believe in Jesus Christ is that Jesus Christ will accomplish the will of the Father. That is the perseverance of the saints.

Thank you. Jerry will now have his 20 minutes for his opening statement. Thank you very much.

My brothers and sisters in Christ, the issue God wishes all of us to be in agreement on tonight is whether a real, true, born-again Christian can so sin as to cease to be a Christian, to fall away from grace.

James has reminded us of many precious passages of Scripture, passages which I as a Christian trust and treasure. The only problem is that these passages don't actually support his position. They do not actually teach that a real Christian can never cease to be a Christian and so lose the salvation he or she once possessed.

And if you were listening carefully, and I hope prayerfully, to the passages as they were read, I'm sure you noticed that. If you didn't, please allow me to point out to you how these passages don't in fact prove his point during my first rebuttal period, which is coming up a little bit later.

But what I'd like to do now during my opening statement is to draw your attention to several very clear passages of Scripture which James seems either to have forgotten or perhaps to have overlooked. I want to underscore the fact that I too, when I was a Reformed Christian and an ordained Reformed minister and theologian, I too used to believe in the Calvinistic concept of once saved always saved, the concept that is being presented ably, I think, by Mr. White this evening.

I knew all the proof texts. I had them memorized and I could handle them from the pulpit and in one-on-one conversation with the same ease and familiarity that James has this evening. But I came to see, as I dug into Scripture a little bit more carefully and a little bit more deeply, that this notion can really only be held to by overlooking other passages of Scripture.

And when these other passages are overlooked, or at least downplayed, then even the passages that one does pay attention to are inevitably misconstrued or misunderstood, as I believe my worthy counterpart this evening has misunderstood them.

No theological system, whether it's Calvinism, which James holds to and which I once held to as an ordained minister in a Reformed denomination, no theological system is scriptural and therefore sound and safe, whether we're talking about Calvinism or Catholicism or anything else.

No system is sound and safe unless it can account for all of the scriptural data, not just certain carefully selected passages which seem to support one's theory. So let's look at some of the passages that pose a problem from Mr. White's point of view.

The first one I'd like to turn to is the parable of the unmerciful servant found in Matthew chapter 18, verses 23 through 35. And while you're turning to that, I just want to reiterate that my sole passion in life and my only desire this evening is to submit my mind and my heart to my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, to believe only what he teaches and to do all that he commands.

And it was my commitment to Christ as Lord and Savior, which I already had as a Protestant, that led me to be willing to rigorously reevaluate certain opinions that I believed were taught by sacred scripture, but which I came to the conclusion much against my will and after tremendous agony, because I never thought in a million years I'd ever become a Catholic, to come to the conclusion that this doctrine, which I'd once thought was biblical, is in fact a tradition of men and falls therefore under the condemnation of Christ.

It's a human teaching which purports to be scriptural, but in fact is not. And no one taught this doctrine for about the first 14 or 1500 years of Christian history. I'll come back to that in my rebuttal period.

But you've had time now to turn to Matthew 18, verses 23 and following. You know the story. I don't need to take the time to read it all. Jesus says that the kingdom of heaven is like a king who wants to settle accounts with his servants.

And he brings a particular one before him, owes him an enormous wad of money. And the man is not able to pay and begins to beg and plead, and the king is moved with mercy. And it says, it tells us in verse 27, that he canceled his entire debt and released him.

Two verbs that are used throughout scripture to describe the horrific transaction that occurs when God forgives us in Jesus Christ. Cancels our debt and releases us. Then the man, at a subsequent point in his experience, goes out, finds a fellow servant who owes him money, and refuses to display the same merciful and forgiving attitude that the king had given to him.

The other man pleads, give me a little time to pay you the relatively small amount that I owe you, and the man will not forgive this other man's debt. When the king finds out about it, in verse 32, he hustles this unforgiving servant in front of him, scolds him, excoriates him, and hands him over to the jailers, in verse 34, to be tortured.

And Jesus concludes in verse 35, now get this, this is our Lord Jesus Christ talking. It's not Jerry Mattax, it's not James White, it's not two fallible men, it is Almighty God Himself in the flesh, saying, this is how my heavenly Father will treat each of you, unless you forgive your brother from your heart.

Who is Jesus talking to? Who is he addressing this warning to? To believers. This is how my heavenly Father will treat each of you, unless you forgive your brother. Your brother. It's a family situation here.

You can be forgiven, verse 27 says. You can have your debt cancelled. You can be released. And yet God can revoke that forgiveness, if we do not persevere, if we do not live up to the grace that God initially gives us.

Jesus makes the very same point, in an equally crystal clear fashion, in Matthew chapter 6, verse 15, immediately on the heels of the Lord's prayer that He teaches us, as if to underscore the importance of the petition, forgive us our debts as we forgive our debtors.

Jesus, and this is the only part of that prayer that has a footnote at it. Jesus says, if you forgive men when they sin against you, then your heavenly Father will also forgive you. But if you do not forgive men their sins, your Father.

Who is He talking to? Non-Christians? Mr. White doesn't believe that non-Christians have God as their Father. I don't either, and I hope you don't either. If you're a Bible-believing Christian tonight, as we are, your Father will not forgive your sins.

Now just stop for a second. This is a debate. You're thinking, this guy wants to prove his point, and this guy wants to prove his point. Let's just lay aside our personalities for a moment, and I just want those words of Jesus.

To sink into your minds. Can you hear what he's saying?

He's saying, God will not forgive Christians if they are not forgiving. You could choose to be an unforgiving Christian, and Jesus promises you, He warns you, that God will not forgive you. So there's no teaching here of unconditional forgiveness.

I'll forgive you regardless of how you go out and proceed to live. Jesus doesn't teach that. These passages are abundantly clear. Now we could go to other passages. We can say, well, maybe that's just some fluke of Matthew's Gospel.

Let's go to another Gospel. I'm reading, by the way, from the New International Version, the NIV, which was my favorite translation when I was an evangelical Protestant, the one I always preached from and studied from.

It's still my favorite translation, so I can't wean myself away from it. So I have it here tonight, and just in case you're wondering what I'm reading from, that's it. If we turn to Luke's Gospel, chapter 12, verses 42 through 46.

Luke 12, 42 through 46. Jesus said, Who is the faithful and wise manager whom the master puts in charge of his servants to give them their food allowance at the proper time? It will be good for that servant whom his master finds doing so when he returns.

Who's Jesus talking about here? His servants, Christians. And it can even start out, verse 42 says, faithful and wise. But they've got to keep it up, he says in verse 43. And he says in verse 45, suppose that servant, not some other servant now, but that servant that he has already identified as faithful and wise, as a servant of the master, a servant of the king.

Suppose that servant says to himself, my master is taking a long time coming, and he begins to beat the men's servants and maid's servants and to eat and drink and get drunk. The master of that servant will come on a day when he does not expect him, and at an hour when he is not aware of.

He will cut that servant to pieces and assign him a place with the unbelievers. This person was a servant of Christ. He was saved. But he began to abuse the trust placed in him, to act irresponsibly, to fail to follow after holiness without which no one will see the Lord, Hebrews 12, 14 says.

And as a result, fell from his position of favor and was assigned a place not with the believers, but with the unbelievers. Jesus makes the same point in somewhat different language in John chapter 15, verses 1 through 6.

You know the passage where Jesus says, I am the vine, Christians are the branches in the vine. He says in the sixth verse of John 15, if anyone does not remain in me, notice you're in Jesus. He talks about being in him, but if you don't remain in me, he says, you're like a branch that is thrown away and withered.

Such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned. It is possible to be in Christ tonight. It is possible for Jerry Matytix to be in Christ tonight, for James White to be in Christ, for you to be in Christ tonight, but you can't be presumptuous and say, well, if I'm in Christ tonight, I can never fall out.

You might believe that, but I'm begging you and entreating you to listen to what Jesus says. Be willing to take your belief and say, Jesus, is this what you have taught? Or do I hear you saying here that I can be in you and yet, if I don't remain in you, I could be thrown aside.

I could stop producing fruit and I could be cast aside and burned. That is what Jesus is teaching in this passage. So the teaching of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ is very clear, that salvation can be received and enjoyed, but not persevered in.