March 29, 2016 Show with Stephen Bloom & Bruce Bennet on “The Church & Politics”

Live from the historic parsonage of 19th century gospel minister George Norcross in downtown

Carlisle, Pennsylvania, it's Iron Sharpens Iron, a radio

platform on which pastors, Christian scholars and theologians address the burning issues

facing the church and the world today.

Proverbs 27 verse 17 tells us, Iron sharpens iron, so one

man sharpens another.

Matthew Henry said that in this passage, quote, we are cautioned to take heed whom we

converse with and directed to have in view in conversation to make one another

wiser and better.

It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next hour and we hope to hear

from you, the listeners, with your own questions.

Now here's our host, Chris Arnson.

Good afternoon Cumberland County, Pennsylvania and the rest of humanity living on the planet earth who are

listening via live streaming.

This is Chris Arnson, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron, wishing you all a happy Tuesday on this

29th day of March 2016.

And I'm sure that most of you listening have been sharing in my amazement

as you watch the Republican primaries and are scratching your head and

wondering how we have possibly come to a point like this when the

Republican candidates for President of the United States are at each other's throats

very much on occasion like bullies in a schoolyard.

But we are going to have the assessment of the Republican primaries

by two men who know far more about politics than I do, and they're both

born -again believers in Jesus Christ.

And I'm so delighted that they could be on the show today to give their assessment of what is

going on in the Republican primaries and also the Democratic primaries.

But it's my honor and privilege, first of all, to welcome back to Iron Sharpens Iron Pennsylvania State

Representative Stephen Blum.

Thank you, Chris, and thank you for inviting me to be on the show today.

Oh, it's my pleasure.

And Steve, you've also written a couple of books, haven't you?

I have.

The Believer's Guide to Legal Issues, and they've crossed the line, A Patriot's Guide to Religious Freedom.

And both of those are still out there in the Amazons and online retailers,

christianbook .com of the world, if anyone's interested in those books, both written from a very practical, readable

standpoint on some very important legal issues.

And of course, they're also available through one of my sponsors, Cumberland Valley Bible Books Service.

Indeed.

Cvbbs .com, C -V for Cumberland Valley, B -B -S for biblebookservice .com.

And our thanks to Todd and Patty Jennings for helping us out here to make Iron Sharpens

Iron possible.

And online, we have, or on the phone, I should say, on the phone line, we have as

our co -host today, one of our co -hosts, Pastor Bruce Bennett of Word of Truth

Church in Farmingville, Long Island, New York.

He is also, he was a 2002 New York State Senate

and our Right to Life candidate in the 3rd District.

He was a 2006 New York State Assembly Republican and Conservative

candidate in the 4th District.

And in 2008, he was a New York State Assembly Republican and Conservative candidate in the 4th

District.

And 2009 through the present, he's a Suffolk County Republican Committeeman and Chairman

of Long Island Family Coalition.

And it's my honor and privilege to welcome you back as a co -host, Pastor Bruce Bennett.

So much for having me on.

And you want to greet my guest, Dave Blum?

Hey Steve, how's it going?

It's going great.

How about you, Bruce?

Thanks for being a co -host today.

Yeah, my pleasure.

How are things going out there in Pennsylvania?

Oh, we have our challenges.

We just got done with a massive 9 -month budget fight with our governor.

But the good news is after all was said and done, we stopped his plan for massive tax and spending hikes in

its tracks.

And now we are 3 months away from next year's budget deadline.

And so we'll start the whole process over again.

But out of, he's a brand new Democratic governor and in his first year, he basically got

none of the big tax hikes he wanted.

So that's a win.

Excellent.

Very good.

And let me now also introduce my co -host who's been in the studio

frequently these past several months, Reverend Buzz Taylor.

It's great to have you back on the program as a co -host.

Thank you, Chris.

And it's nice to have as many participants as listeners now.

In fact, there'll be one less participant next time we do the program, I think, as Buzz will no

longer be a part of this broadcast.

But first of all, let me start by asking Steve,

what would you like to say to start the ball rolling about what you have witnessed in the

Republican primaries so far?

Two things I want to start with is as essentially, I guess, qualifiers or

preludes to the discussion.

One is as a state representative, I'm not real keen on endorsing

candidates and I'm not on the show today to endorse any candidates.

I feel like it's presumptuous of me to tell people how I think they ought to vote.

So my comments are in the context of my personal thoughts.

I'm not trying to endorse or not endorse anyone in terms of my official capacity as a state.

Rep.

More importantly than that, I think this whole process illuminates for us as believers

that our hope is not in the political process.

We can get caught up in that.

We can begin to think that somehow electing the right candidate is a proxy

for following Christ and that we will find peace in that

or satisfaction or success in having the right candidates elected, whether it be at the state, local or national level.

In a lot of ways, I think many of us get caught up in that and I'm not saying I'm immune from it either.

A lot of hope and excitement around certain candidates thinking this will be what saves our country and then

sometimes we see the way things are unfolding.

We think to ourselves, you know, what's happening here and it's in a lot of ways a good reality check for us to

remember to place our hope in Christ, not in these worldly creations like the

political system, much as we might love it or venerate it.

So those are just kind of the pre -thoughts I have.

The way the process has unfolded, it has been, to me personally,

discouraging.

Months ago, I was optimistic.

I felt like we had a lot of hope on our side, a lot of momentum.

Clearly, folks have been jaded and burned out and frustrated with the

direction that President Obama has taken the country and it seemed like an obvious situation where we could

reclaim the high ground and start to fight for some things that are very important, no matter how you slice it.

When you look at the issues before us, whether they be economic issues that

deal with people's livelihoods and the ability of folks to either be forced to live in poverty or to

make something of their lives where they can take care of themselves and their families and invest in others,

those are big issues.

And then, of course, you have issues like the life issues and the sanctity of marriage and things that

are so important to us as believers that we feel have been, in many cases, trampled over the last eight years.

It seemed like we were going to be able to start fighting back on some of these issues, naming the next Supreme Court justice,

things that do set the tone for the future of our country for many, many years to come.

And now we've kind of watched this whole process turn into essentially a circus, a very

vulgar circus where the ideas that we started out wanting to talk about have kind of been

subsumed and absorbed into who said what about so -and -so's wife yesterday and

who touched who and who hit who and who had their hands on who and how big are the hands, just things

that are absurd that would never have been the things we'd want to be talking about at this stage.

And meanwhile, our primary opponent, you're not using the word primary in terms of elections, but

our main opponent, whether on the Democratic side it would appear to be Hillary

Clinton, she's under a massive FBI investigation and that's never even talked about.

There's 150 FBI agents working on the case of her possible and likely misuse of emails

and all we talk about is the latest little nasty insult that Donald Trump put out on Twitter against Ted Cruz.

So it's been in a lot of ways a demoralizing process, but again,

the lesson in it I think for Christians is take a step back, remember this is not what we're about, our hope's

not in this process, our hope's in Christ and it can help us to remind us to lean on Christ and

not on any candidate that might be our favorite.

And by the way, I want to mention our email address here for listeners who might want to join us with their own questions and

comments.

ChrisArnzen at gmail .com, C -H -R -I -S -A -R -N -Z -E -N at gmail .com.

Please include your first name, your city and state, and your country of residence if you live outside of the good

old USA.

We do on occasion have folks from all over the world, actually from about 15 different countries

right now, who on occasion email us.

So if you have anything that you'd like to say as an observer from the outside, we'd love to have your

input as well.

And I know that you are right now, for the first hour anyway, Pastor Bruce, you're mainly

serving as a co -host, but to start off the program, if you could also answer that question about what your

assessment is of what you have seen from the Republican primaries so.

Far.

To see a man like Donald Trump become the frontrunner in the Republican field, I think Steve hit it

very well when he mentioned that we were very optimistic, I think we had a lot of momentum on our side going back to last

summer, we saw an incredible pool of candidates, whether it be the government

with Rubio down in Florida, I mean just from both borders we had candidates,

17 coming out of the gate, were really well qualified.

When I say qualified, I mean they are

solid character, that's the number one thing you want to look for in a candidate of any

policy statement, they have solid character.

And I agree with Steve that politics, civil government is not the answer, Christ is the

answer,

the

state that we belong to,

and it's been very disheartening to

see now being so jaded, as Steve said before,

Donald Trump, who again, does not have the character

with the office of President of the United

States, and

his policy, I think right now...

Now, one thing that I hear from Christians,

some of whom have surprised me by their giddiness and their enthusiasm over supporting

Donald Trump, they have said, look, we are not

trying to get Donald Trump elected to be the pastor of our church, we're

not trying to get Donald Trump to be elected even as a deacon or a Sunday school

teacher at our church, in fact, Pastor Jeffers, or Jeffries, I can't remember how to pronounce his

name right now, he's fast becoming a regular on Fox News

for a conservative Christian's commentaries on

politics and other things happening, current events, and he seems to be

a strong supporter of Donald Trump's candidacy, and he made the comment that we're not...

He, in fact, worded it a different way, he said we don't want or need a Sunday

school teacher to be leader of the free world or something to that effect.

Now, first of all, I think that that's an insult to Sunday school teachers, but it

seems that some Christians have bought into the world's

idea of what a strong leader is, and they almost have acquiesced, it seems, to the world

that a Christian might be too weak to be the leader of

the free world or something.

I mean, that's almost the gist of what I'm getting, I may be misinterpreting their

comments, but Steve Blum, if you could comment on that.

Well, first of all, as a former Sunday school teacher, and I taught for over 20

years, both kids and adults, so yeah, us Sunday school teachers are one tough group.

You know, think about that, the absurdity of that statement, that somehow we,

Christians are not going to be, or Sunday school teachers are not going to be equipped to handle the.

World.

Look at our history, look at the history of the United States, you look at a man like George Washington, who,

the one thing that jumps out at you when you think about how our country, A, became independent, and B, established

itself as a constitutional republic, the key man, the indispensable man in that process was

George Washington.

And what is the number one thing people talk about when it comes to George Washington?

It was his character, his moral character.

He was a man of faith, he was a man of extreme

self -evaluation, he would keep journals of his faults and his weaknesses and his goals of trying to

become more Christ -like in his character, and he was strong enough to stare down, at that time, the

world's strongest international power, Great Britain, to lead an army, to

fight that battle, to win that battle, and then to set the course of a nation that would survive for over 200 years

after his presidency.

He was a tough guy, he wasn't a wimpy guy.

He had, I think there was divine providence involved, and he had a

deep fundamental Christian.

Faith.

His character mattered.

Think of Lincoln, who perhaps wasn't the most Christian guy when he became president, but certainly no

one disputes by the end of his presidency, after the Civil War and before his assassination, he had become

certainly a man of faith, and a man who was relying on God for his help in the

greatest, most horrible struggle that our nation's ever faced, this bloody Civil War between

brothers and cousins, between the North and the South, and Lincoln led through that because he became

a man of faith.

He had that strength, that moral character.

You look at a Ronald Reagan who stared down the evil empire in the Soviet Union, who, again, at that time, the

strongest rival to the United States in geopolitics, a ruthless, horrible,

communist dictatorship.

Reagan, a man of devout Christian faith, a man who cared about character, won that battle, and I don't believe

that these guys win these battles in their own human strength.

I think it's because God sees fit to bless and to bless the nation when you have strong moral leadership.

So for us to now decide that as Christians, we no longer need that, that we just want a guy who's

flashy and talking fancy and living in a gilded palace

and showing off all the time and somehow going to be a substitute for a moral, courageous leader of character,

that's a scary thought in my book, and it's a real concern, Chris.

Yeah, in fact, since I can't see you, Pastor Bruce, chime in any time you want to ask a question.

You don't have to worry about interrupting me.

Obviously, you might want to be concerned about interrupting Steve, but just chime in whenever you feel the need to.

So the thing that is baffling to me is that

people who are also God -honoring, God -fearing Christians who must be in large

numbers supporting Donald Trump...

Well, think about a state like South Carolina.

Right.

Think about that huge evangelical population, so -called self -identified evangelicals, voting

for a guy that made his fortune in large measure in the gambling industry, an industry that

preys upon those who are gullible enough to think they can win in that situation.

It's an industry that destroys many people's lives.

I mean, I know a guy locally who some years ago got involved with gambling in Atlantic City and ended up killing himself because of

the debts that he got into, and that's not uncommon.

Those stories happen frequently in that industry.

A guy who ran strip clubs.

He had the first hotel with a strip club in it, the first casino with a strip club, from what I understand.

A guy who has sort of made a mockery of marriage and the

idea of becoming one flesh for life,

just sort of casually tossing away marriages and disdaining the

Christian moral fabric of what we try to live like.

I mean, we're all sinners.

I'm not saying any of us are more or less of a sinner than Donald Trump, but most of us at least express the hope that we could

be more Christ -like and that the Holy Spirit would help us to become more Christ -like in our walk.

Here's a guy who's basically laughing at that notion.

Doesn't need forgiveness.

I mean, he spoke in public and said that he felt he

hadn't done anything that required forgiveness, and then yet somehow Christians are choosing him as a leader.

It just doesn't make a lot of sense.

Yeah, even when you want to consider how you want to

represent yourself to the world.

I mean, if we are clamoring around somebody like that, and we claim

when we evangelize to the world that many of his attributes are attributes to flee from and

abandon and repent of, why aren't these people concerned

that Christians in mass are excitedly

rallying behind the election of a man that has many of the attributes

that we as Christians are supposed to despise and oppose and repent of?

In fact, when you think of the fact that among the things that God hates that

he himself had breathed into the very words that we call our infallible,

inerrant rule of faith, one of the things that he hates is a haughty look.

And I would think that Donald Trump is a haughty look personified.

He is the poster boy for haughty looks.

And it's not that any of us don't have ego and we don't have pride, and

these are things that we recognize and we try to fight, we try to overcome, we try to

let the Holy Spirit use us in spite of those things.

But here he celebrates those things.

He's all about those things.

And it is odd and troubling, and it makes you wonder, it's a

moment of self -reflection certainly for us as the Christian body in this nation.

Are we even serious about what we say we believe in?

Yeah.

One of the things that I routinely hear, and I wish that you were

with me when they were saying these things because then I'd be able to say, well, not all of them, and I could point to

you, but one of the things I always hear is when I mention all

of these troubling things about Donald Trump, the fact that he clearly has lied on numerous

occasions when being interviewed, like not knowing who David Duke was and

being confused about the nature of what the Ku Klux Klan is and things like that,

and then later claiming he just didn't hear properly, which he later, well, actually even during

the interview, he revealed that that wasn't true because he mentioned David Duke by name.

But they typically will say, well, they're all that way.

So, you know, you can't negate voting for somebody who's a cheat and a liar

and who is self -absorbed, narcissistic, that kind of a thing

because they all are.

Well, obviously you're not.

I've gotten to know you somewhat, and that doesn't seem to be any resemblance of your character, but how do you

reply to something like that?

Well, Chris, obviously I'm a sinner, and I've got, you know, like I said, we all have our

weaknesses and our flaws, and I think the difference between a Christian and a non -Christian is

that Christians acknowledge that we are sinners before God, we go to the cross, we seek redemption

through Christ, and we know that his Holy Spirit then does, in

a mysterious process, cleanse our hearts, and we can become more Christ -like.

Not that we achieve that, and not that we ever overcome all the desires to sin, but that those are

things that we wrestle with as compared to a person who simply embraces their sinful

nature and celebrates it, which is what we seem to be seeing with a character like Donald Trump.

It's a celebration of the sinful nature in

a sense that it doesn't matter, that it's okay, and that's the example that we want to put before

our kids and our grandkids, that this is what a leader looks like, someone who just

has no compunction about any type of sinful behavior and simply celebrates that with no guilt,

no acknowledgement even that they've sinned, that they've hurt God by doing that.

So it's a scary situation, and I'm not saying that

a president has to be a born -again believer, but certainly

as Christians, I tend to want that as when I think about who I'm going to vote for, is this a person with character,

or is this a person who's simply going to do what's convenient in the moment?

And it's worrisome to me when you see the direction we've gone in that regard.

Yeah, you could have a candidate that professes to be a born -again Christian,

who demonstrates all the attributes that Donald Trump possesses, so you do want the most

qualified candidate that has a character that is God -fearing and biblical,

even if they are not themselves.

Born -again.

As you and I know that there are people in many spheres of life who

are better and have more integrity, and this is an unfortunate fact, but

many times they do have a better track record of dealing honestly with the public and

with people in their own industry.

Some of these individuals happen to be not Christian, and that's something that just means we have to

strive better as a people to be more known as being the go -to

people for nearly everything that you can think of.

But if I'm having brain surgery done, I want somebody who's the best surgeon

possible to do that, and I don't want to hear any remarks from you, Buzz, over there.

Right, right.

But if I want something that's vastly important done in my life or an age of service of some kind,

I'm going to want the best person.

But having said that, character is extremely

important, and it is just, I'm at a loss for words, even the way that I've been

myself attacked for bringing up anything

critical against Donald Trump.

But the fact of the matter is we have this

race that is now boiled down to two realistic candidates.

Now, I'm not an expert by any stretch of the imagination on politics, but what happens, Steve,

when these two men do not have the delegates required,

and how is the actual candidate going to be chosen

from amongst the two of them, most likely?

Well, each state has different rules with respect to the delegates that are elected, so it's a complicated

process.

And Pennsylvania is actually one of the oddest states in the mix.

Most of our delegates will be essentially unbound delegates that we elect, and they don't

necessarily have to follow the outcome of the popular vote contest in Pennsylvania.

So when you go to vote on Election Day and it's wise to go get a look at the ballot ahead of time, you'll see a bunch of

names, people you've never heard of in many cases, who are running to be

delegates to the National Convention.

And you may not even know who they, if you haven't done your research ahead of time, you might not even know who they are supporting.

But they're free.

And other states have different requirements.

Some, all the delegates are bound to the candidate that wins the popular vote, some by congressional district.

It's a very complex mix.

But basically, you'll have a first ballot at the convention, and if no one reaches 1237,

then you're going to have a second ballot.

On that second ballot, some of the delegates who have been bound are going to start to be released according to their particular rules

that govern their election.

And if a second ballot doesn't result in someone reaching that

majority, that 1237, again, more delegates will start to be released.

And ultimately, you'll have all the delegates, for the most part, being released from their pledges

as to who they were supposed to go to the convention and vote for.

And you'll have a process of wooing delegates.

And that's how Lincoln got the nomination back in 1860, I believe it was,

that he went into a convention.

He was actually one of the underdogs heading to that convention, but they didn't get the, no one got the majority, and his friends kept

working the room and encouraging folks to vote for him.

And ultimately, after some historian will know the answer to this, but I think it was like 18 ballots,

something like that, Lincoln was finally elected as the Republican standard.

Bearer.

So you could see a process like that where we have ballot after ballot until someone reaches that majority and becomes the

nominee.

And a situation like that, it's not unprecedented in our history, but it's something unprecedented in recent history.

So I think most of us would not really know how to handle that and what would that do ultimately to the candidate,

to the party, what kind of divisions would occur, would we be able to then rally around that

candidate, whoever it might be, or would there be so many hurt feelings and so much bad blood that we would end up

handing the election to Hillary or Bernie?

We have to go to a break right now, and we do have a couple of people who have been waiting to ask a question, but if you'd

like to join us on the air, our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com.

Chrisarnson at gmail .com.

Don't go away.

We're going to be right back with Pennsylvania State Representative Steve Bloom and Pastor Bruce Bennett

as we continue their assessments of the GOP primaries.

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Welcome back.

This is Chris Arms, and if you just tuned us in to Iron Sharpens Iron, we have as our guest today

Pennsylvania State Representative Stephen Bloom.

He is discussing his assessment of the GOP primary

race, and we have on the phone with us Pastor Bruce Bennett, who has also had a very

experienced life within the political arena.

And we have in studio with us also the Reverend Buzz Taylor, who has been my co -host

a lot lately for the last three months on Iron Sharpens Iron.

And we have Brian from Gardeners, Pennsylvania, who wants

to know, is it right in your estimation for a Christian not to vote when they feel like they

are violating their consciences to do so?

To me, if that's a question for me, absolutely a Christian can refrain from voting if that's what

they feel they should do based on their own prayerful

conversation with God about the issue.

I have many friends who are from some of the Anabaptist faiths, whether they be

Mennonite, Amish, or similar denominations, and

many of them, in accordance with their Christian faith, do not participate at all in the political process.

I don't agree with that for myself.

I think, as Christians, it's important for us to be active in the civic life, but there are

respectable and historically valid

streams of our faith where the folks steer away from that for that very reason.

So I have no condemnation for someone who chooses not to participate if they feel it's morally wrong.

Certainly a decision, I think, is up to the individual voter.

Again, for me, my decision has been to participate vigorously in the political process, but I get the idea why

some Christians may choose not to.

Yeah, there's a difference between just being lazy and apathetic and unconcerned and

just self -absorbed so you don't even care what's going on in the world around you, and having very seriously

strong Christian convictions.

It can become an idol.

Like I talked about earlier, I feel like in many cases it sort of has become an idol for many of us, and I feel like I'm partly guilty as

charged.

My hope had been we're going to get a good, strong candidate, and that's going to help reestablish the positive

future of our nation.

But that's really God's role, not my role in selecting a candidate or any particular candidate's role.

So I think we need to make sure that we're not setting up the political process as an idol, as a substitute for Christ.

Bruce, how would you handle that?

Yeah, well, conscience has to be clear to do anything as a believer.

So if the Holy Spirit's convicting you not to do something, of course we have to obey the Holy Spirit.

Question that person.

Chris had mentioned there's a lot of people today sort of taking the easy way out and saying,

well, they want

to just put it in the league of other, you know,

simply

speaking.

Of course, yes, follow your conscience, but make sure because of your tradition

that would not be a

correctation of loving your neighbor.

Anonymous

listener in Cumberland County who wants to know, why is it that the Democrats

seem to have more Christlike compassion for those who are in poverty and

those who are immigrants trying to pursue better jobs in their lives to

provide for their children?

Well, I think the operative word there is.

Maybe seems.

Yes. Yes.

I'll tell you what.

I mean, I can, again, speaking for myself, not anyone else, the reason I became a conservative, the

reason I became a Republican is because I care so much about

the poor.

I want to see the poor have the opportunity to be lifted from poverty into prosperity.

I want folks who are downtrodden and disadvantaged to have the opportunity for justice,

the opportunity to make something of their lives if they so desire.

And if you study world history, it's been those regimes that use the principles

of socialism and a heavy -handed government that trap people in poverty, trap

them in oppression, trap them in a less

high -quality lifestyle.

And it's been the regimes or the governments that allow for the most freedom,

the least intrusion from government, but make

sure we focus on the key things, the key things of having a proper system of justice, having a

strong national defense, having a solid infrastructure, but otherwise get government out of the way where people are able to

lift themselves from poverty in a free marketplace.

And that's what's lifted the masses.

As we've had a history in the United States of constant economic growth for

roughly 250 years, unparalleled anywhere else because of the freedom.

We've lifted people from poverty.

We've had a strong history of people reaching from the lowest point on the socioeconomic spectrum during their

lives working their way to tremendous wealth if that's what they were seeking.

Whereas in other parts of the world where there hasn't been that, people have been trapped in poverty.

But around the world, as democratic principles, as free economic

principles have permeated the thinking, we've seen more and more people being lifted from poverty to prosperity.

Right now in the world, there are more people who are reasonably well off than ever before, and those numbers

are growing.

So we're better off because of it.

And to me, that's compassion, giving people the opportunity to succeed rather than trapping them in a cycle of dependency

where they'll never have a quality life and they'll never get out of it, and it's only going to be the government

cronies that end up living a good life as we've seen everywhere where socialism or communism or

any really heavy -handed government -controlled, command -and -control system has been prevalent.

Yeah, it is interesting that, in fact, I saw, I don't know if you're familiar with Todd Freel of Wretched

Radio and Wretched Television, but he did a very good analysis recently on

socialism because of the claim that many people have that socialism seems to

be more in line with the understanding of the first -century church and all that kind of thing.

And he was talking, and also the claim that capitalism is driven by greed,

and he was going into the fact that socialism is really what is

driven by greed because it's all based on people coveting what is not theirs.

Exactly.

Think about the commandments.

You have a commandment against coveting.

What's that?

Wanting something that belongs to someone else.

You have a commandment against stealing.

What's that?

Taking something that belongs to someone else.

What do those two commandments imply?

Obviously, God apparently is okay with the concept of you owning property

because things can't be stolen from you if they're not yours, and you can't covet your neighbor's property if your neighbor doesn't have a

right to it.

And so those are principles that are woven into the Ten Commandments.

Even, the idea that we can own property, and that's okay.

And the other irony is that a lot of times the liberals and

the democrats will be very much in favor

of environmental laws being passed and being

forced upon businesses and so forth that actually wind up robbing

poor people of jobs, not only even here in the United States, but all over the world.

It seems that the liberals very often have a higher priority for plant life,

foliage, and wildlife than they do for these starving indigenous people

when the liberals are always claiming to be the champions of the underdog and those in

poverty.

Yeah, I mean, you look at what we're doing with the electricity grid.

We have an electricity grid in the United States that's been unparalleled, that we have had

relatively cheap abundant power for decades that have allowed us to have hospitals, to

have functioning refrigerators, to have comfortable schools.

We've had all these institutions that we take for granted that rely on that power grid.

A lot of that power grid's been based on the fact that we've had abundant coal.

Environmentalists have decided that, well, this coal is just so awful because it's potentially going to cause

some sort of climate change that might slightly affect the global temperature in 100 years or 1 ,000

years from now, so much so that we need to take drastic measures to put those coal companies out of business today,

threaten the stability of our electric grid, make us potentially weak compared to our geopolitical rivals around the world

in which we would be literally at threat of military loss to them, and all because of some

theoretical notion that we can predict the impact that this coal today is going to have on some future people who

live 500 years from now.

It's scary, though, because people get hurt today by those policies.

Someday, someone who has a dialysis machine or who is freezing

cold in their home is not going to have power, and they're going to wonder, gosh, how did it get this way?

We used to remember when I was a kid, power was pretty much always on.

Now, not so much, and we take that stuff for granted.

Yeah, it is insane.

I mean, first of all, somebody has to really organize a really good

debate on global warming with the top experts in the field on both

sides, because from what I have been hearing from the conservative

side of this issue, I've been hearing from the experts that, number one,

there is no definitive proof that global warming is man -made, and, number two, there's no

definitive proof that, in reality, it's bad.

Yeah, I mean, we all know the climate has fluctuated.

Whether you're an evolutionist or a creationist, whether you believe in a long history of the world or a short history of the world, we

know that the climate has fluctuated, and pretty drastically, over the centuries.

And somehow or another, we've kind of worked our way through that, and it's not always bad.

If the temperature is a degree warmer, on average, than it was the year before, it's good for some people and bad for some people in

most cases, and there's time to adjust.

And where does life thrive?

If it's real, let's just take it on the case that, okay, let's say the

folks who are predicting that global temperatures will gradually rise over the next several centuries.

If they're right, even then, is it still worth it for us to make corrective measures

if those measures are going to cause lives and health of people today?

If people are going to die to stave off some modest change for a

person who's going to live 500 years from now and will have had ample time to adapt their conditions and where they live and all those

things, are we really doing the right thing by hurting someone today to potentially help someone in the future, or

is it better to focus on solving the problems we can solve here and now for people in an effective way so they can have a

better life now and they can build up our ability to adjust to future changes, which we know

are coming, whether we do anything or not.

The climate will change, always has and always will.

By the way, I wanted to quickly announce that for those of you who are pastors who are

listening or men in ministry leadership or perhaps you want to write this down and tell your

pastor or pastors that you know about this, the Iron Sharpens Iron Spring

Pastors Luncheon is going to be held on Thursday, April 28th from 11 a .m. to 3 p .m.

at the historic and newly renovated Thornwald Mansion.

This is now a gorgeous building that has been restored to its original beauty.

It was destroyed by fire not long ago and has been recently beautifully

restored.

This was a building that was erected in 1909 originally and used

by the owner to entertain, lavishly entertain

national politicians and society's elite in luxury.

Thankfully, we have this facility to bless our pastors with at

the Iron Sharpens Iron Spring Pastors Luncheon.

It's absolutely free of charge.

The pastors do not pay a penny to get a free gourmet lunch.

You get here a speaker.

This year's keynote speaker is David Wood of answeringmuslims .com.

He's a brilliant Christian who was formerly an atheist who converted to Christianity by

God's mercy and travels around the world debating the foremost Muslim clerics and

apologists.

He is our keynote speaker, and we also have my guest today, Steve Bloom, speaking at

this event.

So I'm very honored that he was able to come and share a word with the men in

ministry who are going to be present.

So if you could email me at chrisarnson at gmail .com.

Chrisarnson at gmail .com.

I will give you all the information that you need.

And by the way, every pastor that leaves there also will leave with a very heavy bag or

box filled with books that have been donated by major Christian

publishers all over the United States that have been specifically chosen

for men in ministry.

And these are, I'm not talking about something from the bargain basement or the

used book section somewhere.

I'm talking about newly published works from some of the most brilliant authors

that we have today.

So I just wanted to mention that to you, and we are thrilled about being able to do this once again.

Do you think that there is a realistic possibility

that someone other than Ted Cruz, Donald Trump, or Kasich will

actually win the primary?

I don't think there's a realistic chance that anyone other than one of those three will win the primary in terms of ending up with the

most delegates, but I think there's a very good chance that none of them reaches the 1237.

They require a number of delegates to actually secure the nomination.

I wanted to ask Bruce a question in a second, if that's okay.

Yeah.

But thinking about, you know, I understand the anger that's out there.

I understand completely why people are so frustrated with politics as it is

and the failure in many cases of the Republican Party to really live out the

conservative platform it talked about a lot.

I get that.

I mean, I came in on the Tea Party wave in 2010, and at that time, I could feel it.

I was part of that anger.

That's why I ran for office.

I was frustrated.

But in 2010, what we were talking about was restoring our constitutional values, restoring

the place of the Constitution and taking the government out of things it doesn't belong in, reigning it in.

And it seems like in the short time of six years, a lot of that's been forgotten, and we've just got the anger left.

And it's no longer about the Constitution.

It's no longer about good, solid free market economic policies.

It's more about just angry and burn it down.

And that worries me because there's been a lot of revolutions in history, political revolutions and actual physical

battle revolutions, and a few work out well.

The American Revolution worked out very well, but most don't.

Most are more like the French Revolution where a lot of people are killed and treated horribly,

and you never do get a restoration of freedom.

You just get one horrible regime followed by another.

So just wanting to burn things down, that worries me.

I get the anger, but we need to put that anger in a constructive place, not just say, well, let's just vote for

Trump because it'll be a big slap and poke in the eye to the GOP establishment, which I'm all for.

I'm all for poking the GOP establishment, but I want to replace it with something of value, something that will restore

the Constitution to its rightful place, something that will be a positive, not a negative replacement.

I'm wondering, in Pennsylvania we have our primary date is April 26, so

we're about 30 days out, and recent polls have come out, statewide polls, that show oddly enough that John

Kasich is ahead of Trump.

It's a 33 to 30 race in Pennsylvania with Cruz somewhere down in the high teens.

And, you know, that's odd, but Kasich is actually from Pennsylvania.

He's from Western PA.

We're right next door to Ohio, demographically similar, so it kind of makes some sense.

So you have that scenario unfolding.

And I was curious, in New York, when's the primary in New York?

And, you know, what's the lay of the land in New York?

Because I think you're seeing some things happening.

Wisconsin's dead heat right now.

A lot of things happening that looks like Trump's not going to get to 1237, which is going to open up to an open convention

with no delegates getting the majority on the first couple ballots.

And then someone besides one of these three could easily emerge as the consensus candidate.

What's happening in New York, Bruce?

We have our primary on April 19.

Here in New York, we do it by congressional district.

Congressional district, unfortunately, Trump right now is about.

Cruz has got about 15%, and Kasich's probably about the same.

Cruz will pick up.

They'll probably get probably 5 to 8, and mostly upset,

maybe 3.

And how many is the rest?

Is that the majority then, the vast majority?

Yeah, we have 29.

29, okay.

You have a lot more than us.

We have, I think, about 18 in Pennsylvania.

Yeah.

So, unfortunately, Trump's just got a lot of popularity here.

You know, he's from the state and so on.

Because I agree with you.

I think the waves are, instead of

these tidal, smaller waves coming in, and I'm hoping that even the wind will change completely and flatten the

sea.

You know, in a brokery convention, because obviously, he probably couldn't get there by a

miracle,

but country.

Let's see here.

We have a listener from, let's see, Arnie from

Perry County, Pennsylvania, says, I keep hearing Republicans talk about they believe in small

government.

Why aren't they libertarians?

I mean, it's a good question.

I'm a conservative, but I'm not a libertarian.

I've always felt like there is a place for some government, and we need to

have a civil, orderly society to some degree.

There's a balance.

I mean, there's a guy, James Wilson of Carlisle.

He was a signer of the Declaration of Independence and a signer of the Constitution, and he

talked about the need in government to balance liberty with licentiousness.

You want to have enough government that you're not encouraging licentiousness, but not so

much government that you're infringing on liberty, and that's that very delicate balance that we try to walk,

but my experience with folks who are libertarian is they tend to, in most cases,

just be a little too much tilted toward the licentiousness, for my taste, but I

respect them.

You don't mean in their own personal life.

No, toward the political viewpoint, allowing for too much and allowing for so much to the point where other people

end up getting hurt by it, and I don't really, on some level, don't

care so much what my neighbor does as long as it doesn't hurt me or anyone else, but at some point, if you allow for so much

liberty that people are doing things that do hurt others, you cross that boundary, and it's a tough one to define.

I have some libertarian leanings, but I've never called myself a libertarian.

I've always felt that I'm a conservative, not a libertarian.

And would your libertarianism that you do have come anywhere close to someone like Ron Paul

or Rand Paul?

More, I mean, I think a little closer to Rand than Ron, but I'm concerned always about their foreign

policy.

I feel like it's a pie -in -the -sky concept that we can be isolationist and still somehow be safe in a very

hostile global environment.

I believe we have to have a strong military.

I believe we have to be prepared to defend ourselves, and I believe that our best defense is a

strong military that no one dares to mess with.

Well, I know that, unfortunately, you have to leave earlier than I was hoping today, but I would like you to

wrap up really what you most want etched in the hearts and minds of our listeners today

before you leave the program today, Steve.

Well, Chris, again, thank you for having me.

I would have to go back to what I said at the beginning, that all this politics, all this

controversy is this national primary season.

It's important, but it's not as important as Christ.

We need to keep our priorities straight, realize that God is still sovereign,

that the most important thing we can be doing is praying, not fretting, and God

will open the doors.

He'll provide us with what we need as a people and as a nation, and we've

got to be faithful.

Yeah, it is somewhat puzzling why there are people who strongly will

preach and evangelize that God is in control and the sovereignty of God

and so forth, but they really act as though the world will end as we know it if

a Republican does not win the presidential election.

And as much as it's a horrific and frightening thought to think of Hillary Clinton or Bernie

Sanders as our president, God is still in control, no matter who's in that office.

Amen, amen.

Well, I know that your website is repbloom .com, R -E -P -B -L -O -O -M

.com, and again, the titles of the books that you have that are available?

The Believer's Guide to Legal Issues and They've Crossed the Line, A Patriot's Guide to Religious Freedom.

Those books are not on that website, that's my legislative website, but as you pointed out, and rightfully so, as my omission at the

beginning, Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service has those books online and in the shop, and certainly, in

fact, they've typically had a very competitive price on those books.

Yes, that's C -V -B -B -S -dot -com.

That's C -V for Cumberland Valley, B -B -S for Bible Book Service dot com.

Any special events or anything that you want our listeners to know about before you leave?

Again, Election Day, April 26, I'm on the primary ballot.

At this point, it doesn't appear I have any opposition, but I certainly appreciate folks here in the 199th District

in Cumberland County coming out to vote, and still we need a strong showing for myself and

some important choices for voters to make.

So, if you're so inclined to be involved in the process, please do come out on April 26.

And I just hope and pray that one day that I can drive a stake into my front lawn that has a sign

on it that says, Bloom for President.

Let's talk to my wife about that, she does not want to be First Lady.

Well, it's been great having you on the program today, Steve.

Thanks, Chris.

Thanks, Buzz.

Thanks, Bruce.

And we're going to be going to a break right now, and we still have an hour to go with our guest, Bruce

Bennett.

And we're going to continue the same discussion, this time more from Pastor Bruce's

perspective as one who has been involved in the political arena for a number of years,

someone who is also a very conservative Republican, and has been

himself involved as a candidate in different political races.

But if you'd like to join us on the air, and we do have a couple of people that we're still waiting to have their questions

asked and answered, but if you'd like to join them, our email address is chrisarnson at gmail dot com.

Chrisarnson at gmail dot com.

Don't go away, we'll be right back.

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Just survive.

Welcome back.

This is Chris Zarnes.

And if you just tuned us in, our guest today is, for the second half,

Pastor Bruce Bennett.

And Pastor Bruce Bennett is pastor of the Word of Truth Church

located in Farmingville, Long Island, New York.

And he has also been involved in a number of candidacies on Long

Island in the political arena.

And if you could, Pastor Bruce, remind our listeners who just tuned us in what offices you ran for in the

past.

2002 is Rights Alive Canada.

And tell us about this organization that you're currently involved in.

And let me remind our listeners that our email address is chriszarnesinitgmail .com if you have a question regarding

the Republican primaries, or even the Democratic primaries for that matter, or just a general

question involving a Christian's involvement in politics.

That's chriszarnesinitgmail .com.

Chriszarnesinitgmail .com.

Judging from some things that you were saying before the break, you seem to be

right on the same page with me in regarding your astonishment over the

popularity amongst Christians for Donald Trump.

Yes, I think it's a barometer of how evangelical Christianity is right now in America.

I'd say

a low

presence

for

Canada.

I mean, the thing that's amazing is that a lot of this support for

Donald Trump appears to be based on the fact that these people,

including Christians, believe he's going to accomplish everything he says.

Now, it's ironic, those same people who criticize me, and they will tell me, well, how can you be opposed to Trump because he lies

and is a narcissist and is greedy, when all politicians are?

Well, if all politicians are liars, why do you believe Donald Trump is going to accomplish all of these things that he's

claiming he'll accomplish?

He's one of the politicians, he's an aspiring politician.

It doesn't even make sense that people contradict themselves as you just pointed out.

It also shows, again, tremendous ignorance, and that's what we thought of Leipzig, was to better educate.

That was my big discovery when I

believed in

evangelical Christianity, because the ruling of

politics, due to mystical, rationalistic elements of

theology have impacted.

The baggage that comes out of that, that demonizes the civil arena,

just away from even critically thinking regarding the

city, referring to people.

So if you love people, you'll love politics, but it's not seen

that way in the

evangelical world today, of anything

that God created.

Have Harrison.

Mechanicsburg, Pennsylvania, who wants to know, is Long Island as liberal as I've always heard it was?

Depends where you are in Long Island, it's a great question.

Actually, in Suffolk County, where I reside, where my church is also located,

the last gubernatorial election, for example,

but Lee Zeldin, who's our congressman,

he's very conservative as well,

just maybe tends

to be in those

sections.

All right, now, Steve Bloom said that he did not care to endorse a candidate.

You seem to not have that restriction about you.

You seem to be wholeheartedly supportive of Ted Cruz, and if you could tell our listeners why.

Well, first of all, I'll qualify as Steve.

In my capacity as a pastor, I'm not

necessarily a pastor

that's listening.

I've been a priest teacher for the last 26 years in government and law.

For that job, as well as where it overlaps with the gospel call I have being a pastor,

from my perspective, from my opinion, I think Ted Cruz, of any

announced candidate at least out there, would be the best choice from a Christian perspective, from an evangelical perspective.

Vote for Cruz, and please at least

vote for Kasich, but let's

keep a 68 unfavorability rating.

You can't win the White House just from those numbers alone.

Just from a pragmatic perspective is a

wasted vote, in my opinion, because you just simply can't win the general election.

And now, are people just buying into Donald Trump's

rhetoric when they will say, well, Ted Cruz is a liar.

Of course, we all know that that is the nickname that Donald Trump has adopted for Ted Cruz,

Lying Ted.

What has he lied about?

Am I missing something?

I've never heard anything substantiated that he lied about.

Well, I'm talking about particularly in this race, though, I'm speaking of.

Yeah, I think perhaps it's...

Ben Carson?

Yeah, it's saying that Ben Carson's dropping out of the race.

I think he believes, Trump, that in fact it came from the

tough thing that I

know of that would back that claim up.

I would

like to complete the list if I could, Chris.

Reasons why

evangelicals should

absolutely not vote

for this

myriad of liberal causes.

Vulgar groups and

even the handicapped.

Illegal.

These are

all

issues that the

believer has

to look at and say, wait

a minute, the church, the

distinctiveness of

Presbyterian thought, the

standards of proper form, he probably couldn't identify them.

But the point is, he's disqualified on issues of character here, clearly,

and on issues of substantive policy.

Why in the world are you supporting this guy?

Just because he's an outsider?

You don't want an outsider.

We do have another question from

Brian.

Actually, I misattributed this previous question to

Brian in Gardeners, Pennsylvania.

That was from a different Brian, so I apologize to

Brian in Dauphin County who asked the question earlier.

Brian in Gardeners, Pennsylvania asked this question for Steve Bloom, who is no longer with us

right now.

But I was wondering, perhaps you could somehow, maybe you could think of a way that

you could answer this question in regard to anyone living in this country rather than just the United

States.

The way that the question has really

been posed here is in light of recent massive federal

overreach, i .e. Common Core, Department of Education, Bureau of

Land Management, Obamacare, etc.,

how

do you propose to insulate the citizens of this country

from these massive overreaches, regardless of who is President of the United States?

So obviously Steve Bloom isn't here to speak to that question as a state

representative, but do you have any way of answering that question, Bruce Bennett?

Sure.

There's no constitutional reason,

there's no philosophical reason for the federal level of government

and these are issues that should be reflected in

the state legislatures and the people who can hold their state

legislatures' educational decisions.

Because at the end of the day,

it's going to be that we have

to be careful of a lot of lies that are being told to our children in

the schools today on the federal mandated educational policies.

One thing that is really interesting to me, and it also proves to me

that there is not a lot different between the

democratic platform and that of socialism, is the

popularity of Bernie Sanders.

The fact that you could have such a large number of people in this country being so enthusiastic

about supporting an open socialist, open and proud

socialist like Bernie Sanders, who even identifies himself as a socialist.

And it's interesting also that you don't hear the democratic pundits

or Hillary Clinton hammering away at socialism when she is

debating him or even speaking in public.

She's not really saying, Are you serious, ladies and gentlemen?

This man is a socialist.

We can't have a socialist as president.

You understand what I'm saying?

What do you think that says about the state that we're in as Americans today?

I

see

lukewarmness.

The apathy and the ignorance of the psycho world will

literally be sucked in.

No fear of God.

We don't use the Bible as a standard.

Does that line up?

And like you

said,

when the church wakes up,

it actually gives us a

template that this is not a dirty area.

This is not an area to be avoided.

This is an area to be liked.

So we wake up to that.

To add

further

to the

60s, and now the church has capitulated and continues to withdraw from the civil arena.

And the more we withdraw, the more we're going to allow

it in those who are

using a jealousy and envy.

And socialism also

comes guaranteed by the Constitution.

Freedom of religion, freedom of the church is going to abdicate its proper role

and curse the political arena.

Mussolini and Hitler had that too.

Yeah, I know.

This is really my...

What I'm more surprised about and dismayed about is really the Christian reaction.

Yes.

Because I expect many liberals in this country or naive

or misled people to be willing to support a socialist when, as I said earlier,

I don't see really that much difference between the Democrats that we have in power today

than socialists.

I mean, do you?

Am I overstating the case with that?

No, no.

The Democratic Party has become a socialistic party with the adoption of Obamacare.

Officially, that is.

On paper, it became socialistic in 2008.

What people may not realize is that political parties actually have beliefs.

I'm not saying each person follows them per se who is a political party as far as

their party designation.

However, if you go back to the state

in the Democratic National Convention, the National Convention isn't just to pick.

It's also to solidify the latest views and opinions of an

old man in 2012.

By the way, in 2012, the generic

God that is.

That's

why

there

is no

opposition.

And that's where we're going if we don't slow this thing down.

I had a conservative, believe it or not, a

theologically conservative, doctrinally conservative,

theologically reformed pastor rebuke me recently for a

comical meme I posted about Bernie Sanders.

And he surprised me because I don't know the man really at all.

I've just heard about him, of him, and about a book that he wrote on theology.

I happen to know that he's a Calvinist.

But he said to me that a democracy cannot

exist or function without an element of socialism

within it.

And I didn't know, I didn't have the time or the energy to even begin to respond to his comment

to me.

But do you have any comment or do you have any idea what he's talking about?

Perhaps he's talking about the Roman democracy, if you want to call it that, or the Roman

Republic, as it's historically referred to, where there was terms like

welfare programs and so on.

If that's what he's using as a standard,

the churches, because really there was in this country, if you can refer to

welfare, YMCA, Salvation Army, and so on.

Their purpose, their mission, their identities were protected.

In that sense, yeah, but that's where it belongs.

It belongs in the church.

It belongs amongst families.

That's what he's referring to.

If a man doesn't work, he shall not eat.

It has to be responsible, holding each other

accountable.

We have to use our gifts and talents.

So if he's talking about it in that sense, I have no problem.

But if he's talking about it in the sense of the civil government, like today, willy -nilly, without virtually any testing,

even now without even a citizenship requirement, gives you food, clothing, and shelter just for being a human being,

it's ridiculous to make that assertion.

I mean, do we really believe in hell?

We believe that hell is what?

Well, guess what?

We believe in making a person suffer a little bit here so that it will lead them to repent, to get their life right?

I mean, what's with this?

And do you believe that there is a possibility that Kasich could

surprise everybody and actually become a Republican candidate facing either

Hillary Clinton or Bernie Sanders?

Yes, he could be.

My own personal opinion right now is that Trump, thankfully, will not get to 1237

behind this latest attack against Ted Cruz.

I think that's going to hurt.

Trump, I think, is supposed to smell a coffee about Trump and realize this guy has no substance whatsoever,

demagogical, fascist.

No real substance at

all from him.

Ridiculous claims.

Absolutely ridiculous.

No base in reality whatsoever.

And Cruz, Kasich, or another person,

that'll be selected.

And people don't realize this, but 1976 was the last brokerage convention for the Republicans.

The presidential candidate in Dulving is running mate.

Steve Blum had made reference to the brokerage convention in 1860 with Abraham Lincoln.

And by

the way, Abraham Lincoln is

the guy I'm

voting for.

We have to go to our final break right now if you'd like to join us on the air.

And B .B. in Cumberland County, if you could be patient, we'll get to your question fairly soon after we return

from the break.

But our email address is chrisarnson at gmail dot com.

Chrisarnson at gmail dot com.

Please include your first name, city and state, and country of residence if you live outside the USA.

Don't go away.

We'll be right back after these messages.

Paul wrote to the church at Galatia, For am I now seeking the approval of man, or of God?

Or am I trying to please man?

If I were still trying to please man, I would not be a servant of Christ.

Hi, I'm Mark Lukens, pastor of Providence Baptist Church.

We are a Reformed Baptist Church, and we hold to the London Baptist Confession of Faith of 1689.

We are in Norfolk, Massachusetts.

We strive to reflect Paul's mindset to be much more concerned with how God views what we say and what we do

than how men view these things.

That's not the best recipe for popularity, but since that wasn't the apostles' priority, it must not be ours either.

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vessels of Christ's mercy to a lost and hurting community around us, and to build up the body of Christ in truth and

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Or go to our website to email us, listen to past sermons, worship songs, or watch our TV program, entitled,

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Call Lindbrook Baptist at 516 -599 -9402.

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That's LindbrookBaptist .org.

Welcome back.

This is Chris Arnzen.

If you just tuned us in, our second guest for the day who is our guest for the remaining half hour

is Pastor Bruce Bennett and he is giving his reflections or his assessment of the

GOP primary debates and race and also

including the Democratic primaries as well and the state of our nation

that we would be, as a people, rallying behind those that seem to

militate not seem to, but actually do very obviously militate against Christian

principles and morals and character.

And if you'd like to join us on the air with a question of your own our email address is ChrisArnzen at gmail .com.

ChrisArnzen at gmail .com.

B .B. from Cumberland County, Pennsylvania says, Pastor Bruce

if Donald Trump is really not a conservative and is really a liberal why do liberals

universally despise him so much?

Because a lot of people

view

the

country illegally

by building a wall

and he says

he's for traditional social values but he's shown

absolutely no evidence he has so I'm not sure exactly why a liberal would fear him too much other than

immigration.

I mean, even the way that he is very soft in any kind of criticism against Planned

Parenthood and actually praises them for doing things as if women in this

country need Planned Parenthood to get breast exams and things like that.

You know what I mean?

Exactly.

But it could be also that there are people on both sides of the aisle who will

despise anyone that they think threatens the victory of

their own favored candidate.

Since most liberals and democrats are either favoring Hillary Clinton or Bernie Sanders they

would despise anybody that would be in opposition to them.

So I mean, you can have conservatives who despise Ted Cruz and Michael Kasich

because of the fact that they are standing in the way of Donald Trump's victory or

whatever the scenario you want to set up there.

That's possible too I just think that.

Trump.

And

so.

First of all, I want to make sure that before the time runs out we've got about 25

minutes left.

I really want to make sure that a good portion of this segment you really unburden your heart

and make sure that our listeners hear what you most want them to hear and what you most want to have etched in their

hearts and minds before we go to any other listener questions or anything like that.

Yeah, Chris, I appreciate that.

I want to plug a book by Wayne Grove.

In love, rebuking it politely for just disengaging.

It would be such a blessing

and not just brutal.

God and government.

If people say we're not electing a pastor not of a church, but of a country.

Pastor means shepherd.

To

lead

a job.

To what?

Here with cold as being by God God's given

qualifications.

Those three Titus.

I, for example have to meet certain qualifications.

Well, guess what?

President's name sails that task.

Get a

hold of it.

We've got a couple of smaller books.

Can't afford the price of that one.

Late to government by the same author.

Wayne A. Grudem.

G -R -U -D -E -M.

A

neighbor.

I can't love my neighbor

unless

I'm

from...

By the way, some of those other books you were mentioning were authors.

I thought you were actually sitting in front of my co -host's library shelf there.

Yes, yes.

He would be a big fan for lack of a better term of all those authors you mentioned.

I've got to try to get Wayne Grudem on the show.

I did try at one point several months ago but somehow it slipped through the cracks.

I've got to try again to get him as a guest.

By the way, I misspoke.

Earlier, I think I think I called John Kasich Michael Kasich but it was because there's a listener named Michael who wants

to ask you a question.

Sorry about that.

Let's see here.

Michael asks for Pastor Bruce.

Is the President of the United States really in power of much of anything?

Is he really not just a figurehead and those surrounding him are more involved

in determining the authority that comes from the White House?

Constitutionally, yes.

Filing

usage, we've allowed.

My, yes.

But

what

the

President actually

said.

Yes, yes.

U .S.

Supreme

Court versus

Madison is

a

union,

a public union.

Whether he was forced to join a union that was

ideologically a

shop union where regardless of

and it's just tragic because it would have broken the balance

not because of the Constitution but through trial and usage.

Yeah.

Is there anything that you can say positive about Donald Trump's candidacy for President?

Well he is a good speaker in the sense if you're

going to take a

communications class

you're

actually

going to

turn

to who I believe was a.

Really?

By who?

I couldn't understand that last sentence.

No, I.

I mean about Mr. Trump I said the communications class.

He's had the supposed because he used to be pro -abortion.

He used to be pro homosexual rights and so on and he's had the supposed conversion even though there's no fruit to it.

So on paper at least he's at least saying he's that but we have no evidence of that and he

lied so many times.

Factcheck .org actually documented that approximately every four and a half minutes in any of his speeches on average he tells a lie

a peer reviewed you know documented lie.

And so how can you trust him?

But I would say those are about the only things there Chris.

Well.

I'm a bit surprised that you're impressed with his speaking

abilities.

His public speaking abilities because it is true that he has a

commanding personality that has confidence but

I remember I used to make sure that I recorded when I knew Trump was

going to be giving a speech or something because I was.

More.

Like like watching a train wreck or something anticipating what what you know

phenomenally and amazingly ridiculous thing he was going to say or embarrassing thing.

But I soon.

Learned.

I don't need to see or hear him speak anymore because he keeps repeating the same five sentences

from the very beginning of his candidacy.

He really doesn't diverge from a very small very short.

Script.

Of interchangeable sentences.

I agree.

He's a broken record in terms of substance you know as I mentioned before he's lacking severely

just in terms of raw ability.

He has to admit he does communicate very well at least you know at least you know what the man is thinking.

And well let me ask you a question if this race is down to

Donald Trump versus either Hillary Clinton.

Or.

Sanders.

Bernie Sanders are you going to vote for Donald Trump?

Here in New York.

My vote doesn't count as much.

Because I have.

Liberal New York City that's swamped.

The funny thing about New York is like many states California

and so on if you look at it without being red or blue

most of New York.

In fact most of the country even liberal California is mostly red believe it or not Suffolk County can go red

sometimes but unfortunately my vote doesn't really count so that's not going to be.

That.

If I don't end up voting for either

one way I can even consider a nomination

he'd have to vote for either.

Many things he said.

I'm deeply sorry for saying this.

I'm deeply sorry for you know please can I regain your confidence and so on.

So to answer your question Chris unless he repented of several key

words that he's.

Made.

Statements that he's.

Made and.

You know.

Whether it be.

Statements of fact that were not fact or outright lies.

Or.

Just policy statements are absurd.

If I know that you know he said that he's going to work on his character

and not curse and things like that then I would consider maybe voting for him.

Ultimately count that much here in New York.

Yeah this is.

I am just astonished.

At.

I don't think in my lifetime I've ever seen the hostility amongst

conservative professing Christians towards one another over a primary candidate.

Have you?

Have you ever seen a conservative the hostility being expressed by brethren in Christ towards one another over this

before?

No I haven't no I haven't again.

It's just a spiritual.

Brahma.

And we're so uneducated when it comes to.

Yeah well the let me ask you a question do you think that there is a realistic

possibility that we could have our first openly socialist president Bernie Sanders.

Yes I do.

It will be.

God's judgment on this country.

Yeah.

If Trump gets in I think it's also going to be a judgment on this country as well.

You know.

Because she's a basic socialist.

I mean.

Bernie's an outright socialist.

She's a minor.

Socialist.

But any three of those as of right now.

Yes.

Any three of those could get in and if it is I think all three will be a judgment on this country.

Yeah.

I have been criticized.

For.

Saying this but I was wondering what you might have to say about it.

I have said in the past.

That.

With different guests and with different people just in casual conversation that I believe.

One of the reasons why it is disturbing that Christians are so giddily and

excitedly rallying behind a man.

Of.

Repugnant character like Donald.

Trump.

Is the fear.

The reason I am so concerned primarily perhaps is the fear

of what God may do in regarding to his chastisement of this country.

Having.

Someone.

That we helped.

In human terms of course God is the one that is.

Sovereign.

Over all people that rise to.

Power.

But in the human terms as far as we who are voting and so on and

helping the candidacy.

Of and.

Rallying behind.

And.

Enthusiastically spreading our support for a person like Donald.

Trump.

That God the judgment that he could pour on this country that

we would help elect a.

Man that.

Openly and publicly says that he can't even think of one thing to ask God for forgiveness.

For.

That to me is an extremely realistic and frightening thought

of what God will do next in regard to judgment upon this nation.

Indeed.

I concur.

A hundred.

Percent.

It's a frightening prospect and it

would be.

Very well.

Close to.

Being done.

At this.

Point.

God's mercy.

Has been.

Incredible.

When did America leave.

God.

The clock has been ticking.

I look at Israel and.

See how.

Patient.

He was with Judah but there.

Came a.

Time.

Where that was it.

And he unleashed.

The.