January 3, 2018 Show with Brian Godawa on “Tyrant: Rise of the Beast”

The Iron Sharpens Iron Radio Introduction and Opening Scripture

Live from the historic parsonage of 19th century gospel minister George Norcross in downtown Carlisle, Pennsylvania it's iron sharpens iron a radio platform on which pastors Christian scholars and theologians Address the burning issues facing the church and the world today.

Proverbs 27 verse 17 tells us iron sharpens iron so one man sharpens another. Matthew Henry said that in this passage quote we are cautioned to take heed whom we converse with and Directed to have in view in conversation to make one another wiser and better.

It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next hour. And we hope to hear from you the listener with your own questions. Now here's our host Chris.

Good afternoon, Cumberland County, Pennsylvania Lake City, Florida and the rest of humanity living on the planet Earth who are listening via live streaming and iron sharpens iron radio .com. This is Chris Arnson your host of iron sharpens iron radio wishing you all a happy Wednesday on this third day of January 2018 the third day of 2018 as well, and I am excited about my interview today.

Brian Godawa’s Background, Conversion, and Reformed Theology

I have a first-time guest today. His name is Brian Gadawa, and he is a professional writer Award-winning screenwriter including his first feature film to end all wars starring Kiefer Sutherland you may recognize that name.

He is not only a Renowned actor in his own right, but his father is Donald Sutherland also a very renowned actor and He Brian is a director of feature films documentaries and video promotionals. He is an international speaker on art movies world views and faith and author of the Chronicles series of novels.

Which are his most important contribution by incarnating his worldview and theology in narrative. Unlike anything you've read before. Today we are addressing his latest book tyrant rise of the beast. And just to give you a little blurb to whet your appetite about this.

Book.

Gary DeMar of American vision Says if you're looking for some great history with compelling compelling Storytelling you need to read tyrant. You'll also learn the role of this beast of a ruler plays in God's prophetic Timetable.

And as I said, that was Gary DeMar. And it's my honor and privilege to welcome you for the very first time to Iron Trip and Zion. Brian Goddowa. Great. And if anybody wants to join us on the air with a question of your own our email address is Chris Arnzen at gmail .com.

Chris Ar n z n at gmail .com. And please give us your first name at least Your city and state in your country of residence if you live outside the USA. Only remain anonymous if you're asking about a personal and private matter.

Perhaps your eschatology is different than your own pastors or perhaps you're a pastor who has different eschatology than your own Denomination or something like that. I can understand you want you're wanting to remain anonymous.

But other than that, please give us at least your first name Your city and state in your country of residence if you live outside the USA. Well Brian what I usually do with first-time guests is I usually have them tell us something about The religious upbringing of their childhood if any and how our sovereign Lord drew you to himself.

What providential circumstances arose in your life? That the the Lord used to draw you to himself awaken you to the truth and Caused you to embrace Jesus Christ his word and his gospel.

But many many years ago I was in high school I was raised in a Roman Catholic home and Well, I do certainly in the Catholic Church. My family was not particularly and my parents were not but we just went through the rituals and we went through.

Yeah, you know, we went to church a lot kind of stuff. But um so I kind of had that background in Ritualized religion and such and I had a strong antipathy towards it because I was I'm also an artist always been an artist Had that artistic mentality.

I think a lot about death Not in a soup. It's the one thing that is always Really caused me to evaluate my life make sure I'm doing the most I can with my life because Life is very short and I want meaning and purpose.

And so as an artist, I always strove for that meaning and purpose and but I Fortunately, my parents allowed me to go and visit this youth group out in Chicago Many many decades ago called Sun City and was actually the original Ministry of Willow Creek Community Church and Through my experience with that.

I was introduced to the gospel in a very simple simple sense and You know the you know, they did a lot of Games and they had drama and they played rock music. Which was something that I didn't get in the context of my other church experience.

And so it kind of it made Christianity relevant to my own world as a young teen, you know. So I you know, I basically learned the basic story of the gospel and and I had no big emotional you know transformation or anything it just it made sense and it seemed like the truth and I Realized that I've never really a bad kid.

I never did drugs. I didn't even smoke, you know I didn't have that I realized the way that God Desired to have purpose and meaning and I thought man, you know, I want to have a life that that leaves a legacy.

I wanted to be like Michelangelo, but I started realizing, you know when I'm dead Wherever I went wherever I would be it certainly wouldn't be of any help to me and it doesn't matter what how famous I may Have been you know, I I would have no connection to that.

Whatever was going on in that world, you know, just like Michelangelo doesn't care how highly we value his art now. It doesn't matter to him wherever he is that kind of a thing and so it caused and it made me realize that I'd be dead A whole lot longer than I was alive.

Well, you know, I really need to consider what what's going to happen to me when I'm gone and you know I had waited God's law. And like I said, even though I knew I was bad inside because I knew I'd broken I'd so in your house for me and and you know, just basically prayed a basic prayer.

Like I said, nothing big nothing big dramatic happened to me, but over from that time on I started my own life differently. I started seeing even the little things that I did were important to God and the little sins whether it's a lie here Movie there or whatever, you know, it started realizing that my life was changing from the inside out God's Holy Spirit, you know.

Theologically God's Holy Spirit in head and that began my journey and I hunger to know truth. I hunger to know what is real what is true that we buy a typical evangelical Billy Graham sort of and later on in my to read well, let's put this way ended up becoming reformed in my faith and That from from then on like yeah, he's King overall and he's my salvation does not rest in me you know, he even gave me my own faith and and that was a transformation for me that really took my Self-reliance, I don't count that as a in Christ, you know but I guess what I'm saying is, you know, we all have journeys where we grow and learn things and shed them and.

Amen, and I'm sure I don't want to put words in your mouth, but I'm sure that you would agree that Even though from an outsider's point of view nothing dramatic Or radically transformational occurred in your life.

Spiritually it did. I mean obviously there was you you came from death to life. That's a pretty remarkably dramatic and radical transformation there, but I understand what you mean by In the way that someone might view you like for instance, there are many children who are raised by by ministers for example or in Christian homes and They have been preserved from overtly scandalous and rebellious behavior for their law their whole lives and they at one point Realized they needed a Savior even though By the standards of men on earth.

They were good people quote-quote, but I'm sure I'm sure that's what. What you would view in regard to your own conversion or salvation?

Yeah, no, absolutely. In fact, I think that you know, it's it's original sin. It's the you know, the sinful nature that is in all of us. You know, it can be fed or you can feed it or not. And so we are all capable of doing heinous evil.

It's just a matter of are we going to feed it? Are we going to pursue it or not? So I don't I don't consider these the most wicked things we can think of. I I see that that same evil is in All of our hearts and so we need Christ to cleanse us daily and you know.

It's it's not that you can overnight just turn around and murder someone but we can definitely feed that sinful nature. And it's a process and it's it's not this like oh, well I'm not bad. But those people over there really they deserve hell.

It's like no when you really come to understand the nature of God's holiness. You really see how depraved you are and how you need his grace.

Yes, in fact, I believe that if God and his sovereignty were not restraining the evil hearts of men Not only would it be totally unsafe to leave your home and be totally unsafe even to stay in your home You wouldn't be safe anywhere.

Exactly and the fact that we are not all serial killers and rapists is Because of that fact that God is restraining Evil men. Well, could you give us some of your? heroes of the reformed faith that.

Led you in that direction a good question. You know, I read a little bit of Calvin in the beginning. But to be honest, I was introduced to a lot of it through apologetics and I discovered A man named Craig Bonson, and of course, he's passed away since then.

Yes, and he was actually all kind of a lightning rod as well for some controversial things. But I'll tell you he was the most brilliant apologist I had ever heard that transformed my understanding of the nature of our faith and How it's more, you know I'm more Augustinian in the sense that you know I used to believe that if I could just win the arguments and prove to someone the reliability of the Bible and and you know Christ's resurrection and that they'll have to believe but I you know, I've come to realize that no you can do all that.

No, and someone could even raise from the dead, of course, and they'll still not believe because their heart is not regenerate. And so we do our best to you know, trust in God communicate the gospel defend it but realize that God's God is the one doing the work in their hearts and Bonson sort of changed my my viewpoint on that and that led me into the reformed faith as well.

And then I you know, I read a little bit of Quinn's felt that Bonson was better at actually Describing that viewpoint and then to watch himself, you know, and um, you know, then I and then through him I discovered some other guys like Ken Gentry and Gary DeMar and these guys are not the you know.

They're not the theologians of the past. But I read more the contemporary guys and then that those were the ones that I didn't started discovering a different way of understanding Eschatology, you know and I had been typically Brought up as you know, I was into Hal Lindsey, you know, because we're talking like the 70s late 70s I became a Christian and so Hal Lindsey was really super big at that time and I don't know like 30 million copies by all.

By itself. I mean he was the hugest phenomenon. In fact in some ways he was even more influential than left behind is today because his single book sold 30 million and left behind 60 but that was like 12 books, right and that's a much later date.

So I was heavily influenced by that. Expecting that the you know Lord could return rapture could happen at any moment and there's gonna be a seven-year tribulation with the Antichrist. And so I you know, I lived a faith that was sort of you know I would I would go out and you know, talk to people about that.

So you ready to meet God be you know and and judge me because you know. The Antichrist is gonna come and you know a Christian gonna be left off the earth. And of course at that time in the 70s. It was not well known that whole theory was known in the Christian world, but not in the secular world, you know.

It was still something they weren't familiar with but by now, of course even secular world is very familiar with that whole scenario because it's been it's been pumped out and And has made a gazillion dollars and that's how people have gotten to know it.

Well, that's what I believe at the time. So when I started reading Damar and Gentry who also were formed and in that in that thing. And it started to open my mind because at first what they were saying I reacted against it as if it was like Heresy.

In fact, I thought it was heresy and that was only because I was never taught that there are multiple different views Within the Orthodox body of Christ through history, right? Amillennialism, premillennialism, premillennialism, and postmillennialism.

They're all legitimate views because godly Scholarly men have held them very common in that world of dispensationalism that I was raised in that that believed in this sort of Picture of the other seven-year tribulation and Antichrist and all that kind of stuff.

That that was in our future at the time that the rapture could happen in any moment. It was really common for them to say this is the basic. This is the basic Bible view and all of the views they ignored all of the views, right?

And so when I started reading it, it was shocking to me. But it was very fascinating because they addressed this historical time period that is very crucial to both Judaism and Christianity that Nobody nobody was teaching on and that was the time period from the end of the book of Acts.

To the destruction of the temple in AD 70. So from like they say, you know 40 or 50 AD to 70 AD this generation. No where where it's this massive Jewish revolt occurred the Roman armies came under Titus Jerusalem and of course the temple hasn't been built since right in this this event.

They they went into the historic. They were trying to argue you know fulfillment of biblical prophecy like in the book of Revelation and That was the thing that drew me to say how this is fascinating history, even if I don't agree with it.

But then over time as I read it I became persuaded by their their arguments yes, and I have had the privilege of.

Interviewing at least three of the names that I remember you mentioning. First of all, I had the great honor of interviewing Years ago before I had my own radio show. I had the pleasure and privilege of interviewing Greg Bonson in the study of Steve Schlissel pastor of Messiah's congregation in Brooklyn and Steve and I have been friends for many years, although I am In stark contrast or in very strong disagreement with him over federal vision but we have had a friendship for many years and back then Steve was not a federal visionist because I don't even think they existed back then when I Had the privilege of visiting Messiah's congregation when Greg Bonson was preaching there and he preached on the Ascension of Christ something that I very rarely have ever heard preached on yeah, and then afterwards Steve gave me the the privilege of going into his study and interviewing him on an old-fashioned portable cassette recorder because that's all they had back then and Tragically, I lost the cassette so I hope that one day it's somehow miraculously turns up, but I also interviewed Ken Gentry and Gary DeMar and I I may have forgotten some of the other names that you mentioned that I that I have also interviewed but it's been a very rich life that I have had the honor of having to interview such such great guys and In fact, we just interviewed Gary not long ago on iron sharpens iron radio.

But I heard it. Oh, you did. No great. I did and We have a we have a list or question already and I think it would be wise to ask it now because it kind of Helps set the stage for the rest of the interview.

Dear brothers Chris and Brian is the Chronicles of the Apocalypse I guess that should have been written are the Chronicles of the Apocalypse. Apocalypse the partial preterist views answer to Tim LaHaye's left-behind series and Then he says laugh loudly Chris that's meant to be a joke.

But actually I think it's a very good question whether or not he meant it to be a joke. Is this a partial preterist? Answer to Tim LaHaye's left-behind series. Well, you know, the short answer is yes.

I would like to qualify that by saying oh, I'm just gonna try to make money off or I'm gonna try to rip them off. And do my version with my you know, because that's not and I wanted to make that that important.

But in truth what it does end up be becoming is yeah.

That could be taken in many wrong ways. Right, right. Well that also those are those are fighting words actually.

I've written a lot on this my formed and even more than other traditional, you know, viewpoints are sadly for imagination, you know, sometimes we tend to over. Are you still there?

Yeah, that was just the computer making weird noises.

So, um, yeah, so we have the tendency to sort of over intellectualize and over elevate the you know Scholarship and such which is of course all good stuff. I read that stuff. I'm drawn to it myself. But we tend to downplay the creative side of our faith and the creative side of the Bible, too.

And so I'm kind of this unique person of work where I've got this love of theology and philosophy but I'm also an artist and so what happened is, you know, I've been I've been a screenwriter in Hollywood for many years and You know, I made a few movies.

The only correction I have to make to your Description of me is I've only directed Documentaries, but I have not directed feature films. I've only written feature films, but I haven't directed them but.

Did I say that in your introduction. Yeah, yeah, that's okay. I thought that I was reading right off of your website.

Well, I'll double-check that make sure I didn't say features. I mean, I've written features, but I haven't directed them because features are more like, you know, the movies theaters, right? Many are more like the things on PBS or whatever storyteller and an expert at it and and but you know years ago I kind of had a couple tough years in Hollywood.

And I realized I needed to do more than just trying to do screenplays because it wasn't it wasn't paying the bills enough and that's What I finally launched out in writing novels and that's what opened the door for me.

We're now I am both a novelist and Hollywood screenwriter. But my novels are what I wrote was I wrote up normal Christian story form that could make it more Understandable and more enjoyable and I could basically write theological novels that would be entertaining for people and they would learn Theology so that may be a kind of a narrative theology you could call it and and I think that that's my unique Contribution I think to the body that that because I bring both of those sides to the page and so even though I had studied You know, I'd stayed for decades.

You know, this is like 20 years ago Met Gary DeMar and Ken Gentry and got into their work and and I studied it for years. But I couldn't hardly tell it to anybody because most people just it was so bizarre, you know.

But put it aside I pursued more my other creative stuff and in recent years It suddenly struck me as I was writing my novels that that I had written all these novels Called crop over the Nephilim and I won't go into too much detail.

But just to say That was sort of a annex and it's a creative Exploration of Trump of the sort of supernatural side of the Bible that I had tended to Disregard through a lot of my faith and and as I sort of rediscovered this aspect of it in a story line To the Bible that I hadn't seen before I wanted to retell these fantastic warrior stories, you know, Joshua Abraham David, but tell the stuff that hasn't been told before while being consistent with the Bible.

So I get a little bit into the Giants, you know. Like the Giants in the land of Canaan and and that that's not just this weird arbitrary thing in the Bible. There's actually a storyline that connects a lot of Giants a lot of people Christians don't realize that there was in in the Bible it says that there were literally Five Giants who were hunting down King David and and what that's in the Bible.

Yes, it is. So I try to tell those stories that we don't know a lot about and I fictionalize them Consistent with the Bible and I ended the series with Jesus triumphant. So it starts with Noah primeval I start with a flood and there's eight novels and ends with Jesus triumphant and of course, you know I end with the Ascension but and then I suddenly realized I thought I was done with the series and then I realized studied this this partial preterist eschatology for years and and The end of this story is not the ministry of Christ.

Realized the most supernatural book in the New Testament is is of course revelation and since I believe that that was all You know, that was basically focused on the fall of Jerusalem and that I believe that it was a culmination of Messiah's You know victory over the powers, you know, the principalities and powers.

I thought oh my gosh I'm not done yet. And that's what launched me on Chronicles of the Apocalypse, which is this new series and even though you can read it Apart from Chronicles of the Nephilim definitely, but it is also rooted in the same sort of Storyline, but and that's what I realized I looked and I thought hey wait a minute.

No partial preterist have ever written a novel series on it. And I did discover wait, there was one Hank Hanegraaff and he wrote that about a decade ago I think was called the Last Disciple series, but it never it never took off and it never you know.

It just wasn't a good seller. So I think most people don't even know about it, you know. So maybe there's only one other guy who did this and I thought we really need this because I think It it's still a controversial view partial preterism because the dominant view is still You know a futurist sort of scenario and and quite frankly the loudest voices are dispensationalist.

We could talk about what those are, you know, I guess but but the loudest view is really anti-preterist. And so I thought well, you know We've got some guys out there like Gary and Ken and and many more now who are making the theological arguments and they're far better Theologians than I am.

I'm just I'm more of an artist, but I Realized but maybe we can connect with people maybe our viewpoint can connect with people in a dramatic dramatic narrative way in a way that Theology can't you know because there's a lot of Christians who don't want to get into all that in-depth theology, right?

And so that's what sort of inspired me to write the story of Chronicles of the Apocalypse where I'm Incarnating this view and the goal is is to tell the story from ad 64 to ad 70 this time period that was the Jewish Revolt and the fall of Jerusalem and to show how I wrote it around ad 65 in the midst of the persecution Neuronic persecution, so I started ad 64 with the great fire of Rome.

And then what I want to do is I want to show how in the context of the ancient first century. While John's writing the book of Revelation how they would understand that language as being applied to them.

Yeah, I just simply acting that out. It helps people Understand it in a way that.

Your theology doesn't right. We have to go to our first break right now and when we come back We will have to have you define partial preterism and preterism for that matter. Because a lot of our listeners may be scratching their heads wondering what that means.

And by the way, I have to hook you up or introduce you to pastor Doug Van Dorn of the Reformed Baptist Church of Northern, Colorado who has written on The Nephilim and and he is possibly of a different eschatological persuasion than you are, but you still might Get to enjoy a developing friendship with him because of the fact that he is a published work on that subject and many others and Nobody's or very few people seem to be writing on that.

Of course. I know that yours is a work of fiction and his is a work of theology and church history and history itself. Old Covenant history Old Testament history, but um. But I would love to Have you exchange contact information, but it's no need Chris.

We're already good friends. Really? Yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, I didn't know that. Oh, that's that's great. Praise God. And so we're gonna be going to our first break right now if anybody wants to join us and by the way Joan Slovenia.

Who asked our first question? He has a second question. That we will get to when we return from the break so Be patient Joe in Slovenia. And if anybody else wants to join us, our email address is Chris Arnzen at gmail .com chris ar n z en at gmail .com and remember always give your first name your city and state in your country of Residents if you live outside the USA, please only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter.

Don't go away. God willing. We'll be right back with Brian Goddowa. I am Chris Arnzen host of iron sharpens iron radio here to tell you about an exciting offer from world magazine. My trusted source for news from a Christian perspective.

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That is a part of a series of books. This specific book is titled tyrant rise of the beast. If you'd like to join us on the air with a question of your own our email address is Chris Arnzen at gmail .com and before we go to the second part of Joe in Slovenia's question.

He.

I want you to define both preterism and partial preterism because sometimes partial preterists don't use the word partial in their description of themselves and that could be dangerous because people may lump them together with.

Those who would just merely describe themselves as preterists who we would call hyper preterists. We whom we would think are dangerously delving into some heretical waters who do not believe in the physical visible future return of Jesus Christ and what may also reject a future Resurrection of the dead for both those who are saved and those who are lost.

So we don't we have to make sure that we are clear when we describe ourselves or others with these labels. So if you could let us know something about preterism and partial preterism.

Sure Before I find that I'll just quickly define that, you know futurism Which is the dominant belief in eschatology also has a wide berth of different varieties but it basically is notion that the prophecies of the last days are In our preterism comes from the Latin word preterist, which means prior or beforehand.

So preterism is the belief that last happened in our past. So the difference between and now and there are two varieties some believe they're all fulfilled some believe that most all of them are fulfilled.

So those who believe that all the last days prophecies Occurred in the past would be full preterist and partial preterist believe most of them are with yet I would say the three striking differences is a resurrection and a judgment, but It's important to understand that that The the notion of last when we hear that word we impose on it our own cultural assumptions and what I discovered studying the New Testament and the Old Testament was if you study the phrase last days or the end of the Age or the end of the ages.

You'll actually discovered explicitly in the text of the New Testament that the last days are not the last days of the earth as Futurists believe but the last days of the Old Covenant as Preterists tend to believe so so when you see that phrase last days and end of age that people are shocked.

It's how can you say it happened in the past because it's obviously the last days of the earth. No last days is a phrase in the ancient Jewish Economy and and religion that basically meant the last days of the Old Covenant.

Which means that and partial put our let me let me back up here. So futurism would believe that there is in our future. There's going to be a rapture of the Christian seven-year tribulation and Antichrist that rises up to save the world and you know makes a covenant with Israel and then turns us back on them and and Puts a statue of himself in the temple or something like that.