Bully Cop Gets Caught Making Up His Own Laws

I'm out here trying to find a reasonable solution. Please just step off the sidewalk to talk to them.

You guys aren't being reasonable. It's every week you come out here and try to tell us to not do something.

And that was an example. That loitering law that you stated was an example. It's always a little bit crossing the line.

And I feel like there's some bullying going on there. Yeah, yeah, okay.

Yeah, so we've been out here for four years. We know the law quite a bit.

You know, we've had the meetings. We've been, had the meetings with the chief. There's, we wanna make it as easy as we can for you guys, but we're also, this is happening every time we're out here.

And so there comes to be a point where you're starting to violate the rights of what we're doing out here.

And they have been calling you. I know, I understand. I mean, again, emails every day, phone calls every day.

This has been going on for a while, but they come out here to distract us and they call on you to help distract us.

And so what they're doing is actually a violation against the law because they're taking up your time. Now, I understand that you're just, you're not filing reports.

You're not actually acting on those things, but I think we need to start being careful. And I had a conversation with a lieutenant this couple of weeks ago about this.

Actually, I mean, we can get on, I might talk to him again today because it's been a, hang on, he probably heard

Manzanera. Manzaneras? Bill Manzanera. So you can actually probably talk with him because about this, and he's in agreement as well.

As what I said, when you have, when we're on the sidewalk or something, we're not blocking and we can be out here.

This is a natural, we've actually been told we couldn't even stay here, which is, you know, that's a violation also of our rights.

Actually, Utah rights. I know they wrote the code. I know they wrote a code and they did that for us.

The city council went and wrote that, that you quoted or referred to right there, which is also actually an unconstitutional law saying that we don't have the right to be here.

But we're not doing those things. We're not blocking. We're not, walking across the street is not blocking.

Standing in a natural area to talk to a car that has stopped to talk to us, oftentimes we'll say, hey, can you move to the side to not block traffic?

But if they choose to not, like this guy, this guy, that was his, the one, when you walked up and he was talking, he had chosen to stop and talk to us and he wanted to engage us, but yet you came to us, not to him.

But he was the one that actually wanted to engage and talk to us. So we were being, we were engaging in friendly conversation with him.

And so, so the observation that you gave, that you assumed was happening, wasn't happening, just like, and so that's why

I'm wanting to be very clear to, that we are at a point now where we've tried to make sure that we're, and like I tell

Lieutenant Bell, as an arrow that. He's commander now. As he, that's fantastic. So, so then he might not have heard you call because I know he listens for those, he may.

But to come out here, but those kinds of things, we try to give as much as possible to make your guys' job easier.

We want you guys, we respect what you do. I mean, we've, we've fought for you, for the police department.

You guys have it extremely tough in Salt Lake. I get it. And I understand that you're not coming out here trying to get a big confrontation.

I understand that. You're just trying to, you're trying to play a neutral area. And so we've been trying to give as much as we can, but we're at the point now where they're, they're starting to be able to,

I think, manipulate what's going on here, to try to take away our rights. And they did it with that, with that ordinance that you referred to, which

I have, I do have that, and I know it. That was a city council that put that into law for us, just like this natural area, the rocks, they put that in there for us, just like the big thorn bushes that they put in here.

They put that, they do all these things that didn't grow by the way, but they put those in there for us.

They've, they've accused us of a lot of things, but we do actually keep things on camera for our safety, just like you.

Is your camera on by the way? Okay, great. So those things are for our, both of our protections, right?

And so that's where, that's where we're at. We, we want to be able to have our right, but it's getting to the point where we're, it's starting to infringe on our rights.

And I think that you guys know that. And so just,

I mean, we're, understand, we're not trying to be confrontational with you guys. We love the police department.

We know what you're here for. We want you guys to, to have a, have a good day in a, in a tough, tough spot.

But understand too, that, that it's starting to, you're starting to take away our constitutional rights,

Utah constitutional rights, U .S. constitutional rights. You're starting to infringe on that. And it's starting to concern me a little bit because it's, it's just a little bit at a time.

And we're getting to that point. And by telling us that we can't engage in a conversation with somebody who stopped to talk to us in, in a public area is, is really pushing that line.

That's not what I said at all. That's what happened. I want to clarify that. That might've been your, your take on it. That's not what I said.

So, so I'll, I'll tell you again. So my perception when I walked up was, I saw a vehicle pulling and I saw this gentleman here walk in front of the vehicle and go over to the other side.

Can I stop the vehicle? What was that? No, no. I said, walk in front of the vehicle. Right. I want to make sure

I clarify those words. I said, walk in front of the vehicle. Right. I didn't say stop. I said, walk in front of the vehicle.

Okay. I get it. But that, I know what you're saying there. However, however, if he's on a sidewalk, come on.

I mean, he's on a sidewalk. He walks across. As the guy's turning in, you're, you're, you're talking about a fine line there.

So you're not even letting me explain. No, go ahead. No, go ahead. You switched and talked to him. No, no. Well, for a second there.

Okay. So, okay. So what I, when I walked up, what I observed was this gentleman here walk in front of the vehicle and they go into the passenger side.

Okay. Now, now that he, the fact that he stopped to talk to you or from, from what you're telling me, because I wasn't here to find out whether or not he can willingly stop on his own.

Right. That's, that's what you said. Okay. I'm just going to go off what you said. So if he did in fact stop because, because he wanted to have a conversation with you, that is, you know, totally something that, that is, that is okay for you guys to do is to have that conversation again out in this public, public environment.

Okay. Again, I also wanted to clarify, I also wanted to clarify something that you said that I said that you guys could not be here.

I said from the very beginning that you guys have every right to be here and to protest. Right. Did I or did I not say that?

What I was talking about is when you told him to get off of the sidewalk there and come onto the grass that he wasn't allowed to be on the sidewalk.

That's what I was talking about. When you, when you told him get off, to come off the sidewalk. First of all, there was nobody on the sidewalk.

They were just standing there and you had told him to get off the sidewalk there and pull forward and not to be over there.

That, that was the line. That grass was the line. That's what, that's what I was clarifying. Okay. And I just want to clarify that there is a city ordinance about loitering on the sidewalk.

Are you, or are you not aware of the ordinance? Okay. That's fine. I don't agree with that. Yes. What's the code, do you know?

He's only seen gang loitering. I don't see any other, is it? Right. I'm saying, what I'm saying is that is not the loitering.

It's as far as that city ordinance for loitering is going. That's not, that doesn't qualify as that.

I think that that would, I think that that could, would win in an, in a, in a, in a question of right and wrong.

Also, I hear you say that, that the city council made that ordinance for you. It's not just for you, but they made the loitering on the sidewalk ordinance.

I want to clarify that as well. Okay. We have a lot of issues with people sitting, laying, standing on the sidewalk for extended periods of time.

Okay. Now it doesn't specifically say blocking the sidewalk. Okay. But it's in the ordinance.

It also just says that, that, you know, you can't loiter on the sidewalk and that if an officer action would be, you would have to comply with that.

Okay. I could read it real quick. It is unlawful for any person to remain standing, lying or sitting on any sidewalk for a longer period than two minutes in such a manner as to obstruct the free passage of pedestrians there on or willfully, willfully to remain standing, lying or sitting there, there on in said manner for more than one minute after being requested to move by a police officer willfully to remain on any sidewalk in such a manner as to obstruct the free passive passage of any person or vehicle into or out of any property abutting upon said sidewalk or any property having access to such sidewalk.

So was he, so it says in such a manner. So was that the question is, is, was he standing there to block, block the sidewalk?

No, there's, there's no way there's, there's no way. The man was there.

The man was there. If there, if there was somebody walking, we never obstructed justice.

There was nobody there. So in going back to the, the, your question of the loitering law.

Yeah. We were not in violation of that loitering law from what he just read. I don't believe I, again,

I did not realize that that other person was a pedestrian. Let's not talk to you. Well, I know they were part of that, right? You guys were standing on the sidewalk.

If you guys would be willing, obviously, again, people are welcome to stop and talk to you guys, but if you're willing to, please just step off the sidewalk to talk to them, right?

Just so that it's not blocking the whole sidewalk. Again, I'm not out here trying to get any sort of argument with you guys. I'm out here just trying to, again, like you said,

I'm trying to balance, right? I'm trying to balance your guys' rights to be out here and protesting while also balancing, you know, the concerns that, that this clinic has for, for their, for their, for them and their clientele, right?

Because people do feel threatened having you guys out here. And I will just say that as a fact, because that's, that's the point of view that, that the clinic has.

Okay. So I'm out here trying to, trying to find a, find a reasonable solution for both parties.

Okay. So can I respond to that? Sure. So you're coming out here and talking to us in a reasonable, trying to find that reasonable solution.

We have multiple videos of speakers in the face coming out, screaming at us, calling you constantly, no proof of us doing any of the things that said, have you gone in there yet?

Or are you going to go in there and say, don't give false accusations? Are you going to use your plan to go in there?

I'm going to contact the person that called us. Yes. But I don't have to go in there to do that. I can call the phone number that I have.

Right. I get it. I get it. Yeah. And we, again, we, yeah.

This is a, this is a long going thing. I could sit here and tell you about all the things that, that people have come up and threatened and we've called the police and had to wait four hours for them to show up.

Or when I was attacked out here on the ground and I was bleeding and I had my knees,

I couldn't walk for two weeks, but yet when we tried to get a police report filed, they wouldn't file a police report.

Never even got the person's name and couldn't get the police, but I can go through all of those things. I can go through all of those things, but, and we can sit here all day, or you could watch a lot of that stuff on, on YouTube because it's all over the nation, that kind of stuff happening.

So when you're coming to us and telling us these things, I'm going to tell you, all of us are very well aware of what happens.

And we're very aware of the, of the law because we want to follow the law. We're probably the only ones out here trying to follow the law, but when you came here, you came to us, you came to us, it always comes to us.

No one ever comes into it, goes in there, but there's a lot of laws that they're breaking and a lot of things that they're doing.

And so when I, where I'm going with that is, is it's starting to cross the line to where it's not being reasonable anymore.

You guys aren't being reasonable. It's every week you come out here and try to tell us to not do something.

And that was an example. That loitering law that you stated was an example. It's always a little bit crossing the line.

And I feel like there's, there's some bullying going on there, regardless of whether or not you're intended, intended.

I know you're not coming to us trying to bully us. I know that's not your intent. Trust me.

I know. I understand your good intention, but understand just where we're coming from. It feels like you're starting to, to not you.

I just feel like it's starting to shift to where we're being told to not exercise free rights.

That's how I feel. Hey, thank you guys. Congratulations guys. We can help in any way.

Let us know. Thank, thank you. Well, I hear what you're saying.

I appreciate you. Let me speak with some things that you say, but I hear what you're saying. So, but again,

I just came out here to mainly reinforce and remind of city ordinances and just request that the

U .S. I'm backing up because of the sun. Sorry. That's all good. I get it. But just, you know, came out here to talk to you guys about it.

Okay. Cause we did get the call. Again, like I said, you know, we always call them back to talk to them as well and find out more about why they call.

That's something that we do. And everything that we do out here is always documented. There's a mandatory report after all of these.

Okay. Yeah. For you guys. I understand. Yep. And part of that has to do with the fact that, that we want to determine, you know, is this a constant issue that we're seeing more of a problem with you guys?

We're seeing more of a problem with them, right? We document this. We're trying to find a solution because we, I mean, I think that people think that we want to come out here and talk to you guys all the time.

Oh, I, I believe, I don't believe that. I believe that you guys have better things to do. Yeah. And so, but this is something that we have to do when somebody calls we have to respond out.

I wonder, yeah. So why did they call? Why did they call? Yeah. Primarily for the portion of the car stopping here, walking across, talking to people while it's right here in the driveway.

And then we're down the sidewalk. Which, which again, we, we video, we have, we have that recorded as well.

There is never, not one time. I don't know how many times they've reported it. Hundreds and hundreds of times.

Not one single time. Have we ever loitered or blocked a car?

Not, not at all. That was probably the extreme of it where he was walking across as somebody's turning in and he never stopped them.

But just like Crocs walking a crosswalk, that would be like a crosswalk. It's a sidewalk and he's walking.

If somebody's in a crosswalk, somebody would stop. They're not obstructing them. They're, they're following the law to wait for them and not run them over.

We've actually had people try to run us over out here. I'll give you an example. There was,

I was sitting, I was standing by the rock there. One of the eye doctors, the one that's in there now, stopped and talked and he was talking to me.

We were having actually a good conversation. Officer walked up and he turned to the officer and he says, this guy is blocking me.

He's not letting me in. He says, I said, you realize that I have all this on video. And he looked at me and looked at the officer and stopped and drove away.

He was intentionally trying to get me in trouble, trying to do that, but that's why we have the video.

That's why you do. It's to protect you, not us. It is. And so that's why we have it.

And other people will lie about us. And they lie all the time. So understand that that's what's happening out here.

And so when these laws are written, I want to know these laws. So I study these laws.

I've called the district attorneys, the prosecuting attorneys, the attorney general.

We have a constitutional attorney. The reason is it's not to hire them against, it's so that I understand the law.

I want to know what the law is so that I know if I cross the line,

I don't want to do that. But I also want to give you guys enough cushion there to where it makes your job easier.

And it's keep stepping forward as we're stepping back at this point.

It really is. I mean, and it's taken four years to get to this point. And I think it's really gotten to that point.

All right, guys. Well, again, to show you the things I was saying again. Okay, appreciate it. Yep. Sidewalk, another example.

Yep. But is he blocking? Is he obstructing passage on that at all?

What does that mean to obstruct passage? Do you know the legal definition of what that means? Like how long, how far into the sidewalk?

I can tell you, I can tell you. Okay, so there's a certain distance on the sidewalk that you can stand.

Actually, you could even have a sign on there as long as there's enough space for the person to get by.

That's how it is. And it doesn't even matter on what side of the side, as long as they can get through, then that's not obstructing the path.

So she's able to walk by with not being obstructed, not even have to move aside. But of course, when they are walking, like he said, that's what we were discussing because he asked you guys not to discuss.

I think I took two minutes to. But she stopped willingfully. It was a conversation that she was willing to have with us.

She stopped and we didn't block her from going in. I was just pointing out what I was saying was a point in the middle of the sidewalk, which was loitering.

And then as soon as I pointed out, you did step closer to the grass. Well, in that case then, she was loitering more than they were because she was blocking the rest of the sidewalk.

She was standing on the opposite side of the sidewalk. On the sidewalk. But I'm, again - I mean, you're splitting hairs.

Yeah. Okay. You're splitting hairs. All right, you have a good day, sir. Thank you. You should step off the sidewalk to talk to them.