March 9, 2016 Show with Bill Shishko on “Worship that is Acceptable to God: Its Principles and Practices”

Live from the historic parsonage of 19th century gospel minister George Norcross in downtown Carlisle, Pennsylvania it's iron sharpens iron a radio platform on which pastors Christian scholars and theologians Address the burning issues facing the church and the world today.

Proverbs 27 verse 17 tells us iron sharpens iron so one man sharpens another. Matthew Henry said that in this passage quote we are cautioned to take heed whom we converse with and Directed to have in view in conversation to make one another wiser and better.

It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next hour. And we hope to hear from you the listener with your own questions.

Now here's our host Chris good afternoon, Cumberland County, Pennsylvania and the rest of humanity Living on the planet Earth who are listening via live streaming. This is Chris orange and your host of iron sharpens iron wishing you all a happy Wednesday on this ninth day of March 2016.

And I am so delighted to have a return guest who I Definitely have counted among my very favorite guests for years. Including the old iron sharpens iron broadcast and not only that one of my dearest friends.

His name is Bill Shishko. Currently pastoring the Orthodox Presbyterian Church of Franklin Square, Long Island, New York he is a truly gifted and awesome and powerful and biblically faithful preacher teacher Conference speaker and who knows maybe one day author if my prayers are answered.

And today we're going to be discussing a very important and highly debated topic a theme that has sadly created not only controversy controversy, but division amongst the professing body of Christ and This topic today is worship that is acceptable to God its principles and practice.

And it's my honor and privilege to welcome you back to iron sharpens iron Bill Shishko.

Hey, Chris, good to be back with you. What my what a collage you give me? I'm wondering if it's really me that you're talking. As far as writing books Chris, I'm doing it all the time. The Bible talks about writing epistles on the tablet of the human heart.

But by the spirit, so I'm writing books all the time. Amen.

Well, I hope you actually include the ink eventually as well because I think that you definitely you definitely have the gift to pursue that. And in studio with me again is my friend the Reverend Buzz Taylor and.

You two have something in common in that you're both Alumni of Bob Jones University. And on top of that both became Theologically reformed and even Presbyterian even after graduating Bob Jones. That is a good way of looking at it and Buzz won't you tell?

Pastor Bill where you have pastored. Because he was asking before we went on the air.

You never got a chance to answer that. Well, I was the assistant pastor for a couple years in the Independent Baptist Church in Depew, New York, which is near the Buffalo Airport and after that I pastored About 45 miles southeast of Buffalo.

I'm originally from Buffalo, New York. And I pastored in a little town of Sandusky South of Arcade if anybody knows where that is. Nobody knows where Sandusky is if you go 10 miles down the road from Sandusky, New York and say you're from Sandusky.

They say Ohio. Just one of those things but and of course, it's got it's it's a name of him for me now. We won't get into that, but I've also pastored a Church of God in Pennsylvania. That's the of the Church of God General Assembly the Finley, Ohio.

Church of God if you're from a non charismatic Denominator. Wesleyan Armenian predominantly and.

During that time I also went through a stint of Charismania and I was working with the Assemblies of God for a little while in for teen challenge and then all the while moving towards a reformed Presbyterian.

And That job finished when I moved to Maine and my last church was In the capital area of Maine in a little town called Fayette and Then I moved to Pennsylvania and I haven't been ministering I've done a few weddings and things but I have not actually taken a church.

I'm not close to that again.

It's just at this point in my life. It wasn't in the schedule and buzz is currently the member or should I say a member?

A member.

Yeah, I'm not the member. I'm a member. Yes a member of Carlisle reformed Presbyterian Church, which is a PCA congregation. And we are going to be discussing An issue that is rooted today in Hebrews 12 verses 28 through 29 Therefore since we receive a kingdom which cannot be shaken Let us show gratitude by which we may offer to God an acceptable service with reverence and awe.

For our God is a consuming fire and I'm looking forward to having you Exegete that for us pastor bill and then also obviously expand the Topic into the broader areas of what? goes into worship and and we're going to be breaking up the the two hours in To the first hour being the principles of worship and the second hour the practice of worship, but before actually we start talking about that I I Forgot to have you give our listeners an update on yourself and the Orthodox Presbyterian Church of Franklin Square because people are really Very frequently is more than you might know Asking me if you are already retired or what the case was with Bill Shishko.

So if you could let our listeners know. So they're caught up to speed on that. I'd rather.

Well Radio in a sense doing what your dispaterian church is more exposed. I've had that burden. The second is our regional group of church more evangelism should dance after a lot called me a beginning Program called a visit to be similar in many ways Chris.

In fact, if you're looking at the thing is to follow up my pray for the pope for the and you may remember that.

Many years ago when I was working for WMCA radio I actually came up with the title of a special broadcast that you sponsored nearly annually a visit to this pastor study. Well, I'm gonna give out our our email address.

For those of our listeners who may want to ask questions. It is Chris Arnzen at gmail .com. Chr is Arnzen at gmail .com. Please give us your first name your city and state and your country of residence if you live outside the USA and Please only remain anonymous if it's about a personal matter.

Perhaps you have some kind of criticism about the worship of That's that takes place in the church where you are a member and you don't want to identify. In fact, we would prefer you didn't identify yourself if that was the case or or something of that effect.

But otherwise, please give us at least your first name city and state and country of Residence,. I think a good place to start would be. It may seem like a no-brainer or a simple question. But a definition of worship since there is disagreement over what falls under that category one blatant.

Unpainfully obvious reason why there is confusion about the definition is because the Church of Rome Insists that they are not worshipping Mary and the Saints and images of them. In all the activity that they do surrounding Mary and the Saints and the images which would include the kneeling.

Before praying to singing to all those kinds of things and of course even in them within modern Evangelicalism you have a differences differences of opinion and what is worship. Some think it's only about the singing and the playing of music.

But if you could give us a definition.

Yeah. Well, of course the Roman Catholic Church makes a distinction between Let's try and write the picture rather than the Creator and any form of self or anyone other than a forbidden Bible connected with a priestly activity Connected with other places of the world when it's translated into the absurd Range that now to get to your worship is used for what we call all life worship.

When Paul you present your bodies a living sacrifice. But the New Testament also, that's normally what we sent that sense in which the Priestly Old Testament are now fulfilled. We already have a listener who has a question for you.

His name is Porter in Palmetto, Florida. And he asked and I think it's a good way to start off some of the discussion about detailed definitions of worship. His question is the regulative principle of worship requires Exclusive psalmody.

Do you practice it? And obviously there are differences of opinion amongst even the reformed on that and even amongst the exclusive Psalm singers because some of them exclusively sing a cappella and some do not.

But if you could define the regulative principle since it's in his question and answer his question about the exclusive psalm.

Yeah, that's a that's a terrific question. Let me break it into nation, but as important was the Reformation of the whole church and that had almost highest unless something is and rightly We're to do only what the script and incidentally that doesn't make these questions easy.

Are the answers easy? But it does tell you where we're going to get the answers. You shall not add to them. We don't we don't take away from the neither. Do we add to it corporate? We're heightened. So that would be that's the basic answer.

I don't know Chris if you want to draw me out about that or you want me to do I think that.

You've been very detailed on the regulative principle unless buzz is a question. Then you can move on to the exclusive psalm. It'll be interested especially.

But I don't hold to say that.

I.

Say that very very care GI Williamson.

I've heard men of God preach from your pulpit like Ted Donnelly and Morris Roberts.

Who are exclusive songwriters? Yeah, and they and out of deference to my we're to speak a different. I just but I don't. The second. The second argument is fine itself. Arguably. And I realize it's a debate.

Arguably. Philippians to Him the church as a hymnic quality to it. But even if that's not the case, you have this. You have the songs in the book of Revelation. You have the song. Song of Moses and the song of the Lamb and the praise before.

I'm not person or my purse that the Psalms Represent what the writer of Hebrews called the shadowy times. It was the shadow where I'm yet. He's shown there and he is shown in all the hundred fifty Psalms.

But I have a real problem believing that. There there's a choice and I reject the view incidentally, but it's a violation and of course the added to what you just said.

Is that the exclusive psalmity? Position would prohibit Christians from Praising Christ by name. Specifically.

Some of these principles Probably at the time the person or that Emperor who was really he was for localized. Was that the was acceptable and sin showing that we're not Christians to the call of the God.

A but that's anyway. So he was and all of this culminates in chapter 12. We haven't come in the spirit and the writer said who hasn't been complete He is in the gathering of God's peach shaking of the day.

Then he comes to this. Therefore receiving the keep now always tell people that grateful No, he's shaken is those who know full of the thing. Let us all just sit down a lot day and really be careful. Now.

I assume that you have no.

Objection to people. You know sitting in Starbucks and not only praying but evangelizing.

As you know, certainly. Popular image today. Yes. Yes. I know we call God Abba means father, but but. With reverence is an irreverent. That's how that's how the old test like we probably have to break here.

But the word all here. It's a classical literature, but the word means fear. It's a fear that has even an element of and that's why this ends for. So in this magnificent text you have on the one hand is tremendous Gratefulness that we are there.

We're receiving a kingdom in which among others and never forget That our God is a professor Murray can't help but.

And just as you always were before you are quite the punctual individual and you stop speaking exactly when we need to go to a break and I am going to go to a break right now. And if anybody would like to join us on the air as Porter did with a question of your own our Email address is Chris Arnzen at gmail .com.

Chris Arnzen at gmail .com. And by the way Porter give us your full address. Because you have won a brand new new American Standard Bible and That is compliments of the publishers of the New American Standard Bible who sponsored this broadcast and who are now celebrating their.

74th.

Year of service to the church and we thank them for Being faithful sponsors of iron sharpens iron going all the way back to 2006 so I hope Porter that you're not a King James only advocate and This this Bible will be meaningless to you because I happen to know that a lot of the exclusive psalm singers happen to be Coincide coinciding with their views King James only advocates, but not all of them.

And but I hope they enjoy the Bible reporter and if anybody else would like to join us on the air We look forward to hearing from you at Chris Arnzen at gmail .com. Don't go away. We'll be right back.

With pastor Bill Shishko of the Orthodox Presbyterian Church in Franklin Square on our theme today Worship that is acceptable to God. Don't go away. We're going to be right back after these messages attention coin collectors and investors Long Island galleries of Wading River, New York as Brilliant uncirculated 19th century Morgan silver dollars for only fifty four dollars per coin With free shipping and handling for a limited time.

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Wrote to the church at Galatia for am I now seeking the approval of man or of God? Or am I trying to please man if I were still trying to please man? I would not be a servant of Christ. Hi, I'm Mark Lukins pastor of Providence Baptist Church.

We are a reformed Baptist Church and we hold to the London Baptist Confession of Faith of 1689. We are in Norfolk, Massachusetts. We strive to reflect Paul's mindset to be much more concerned with how God views what we say and what we do.

Than how men view these things? That's not the best recipe for popularity. But since that wasn't the Apostles priority, it must not be ours either. We believe by God's grace that we are called to demonstrate love and compassion to our fellow man and To be vessels of Christ's mercy to a lost and hurting community around us and to build up the body of Christ in truth.

And love if you live near Norfolk, Massachusetts or plan to visit our area. Please come and join us for worship and fellowship. You can call us at 508 -528 -5750. That's 508 -528 -5750. Or go to our website to email us listen to past sermons worship songs or watch our TV program entitled resting in grace.

You can find us at Providence Baptist Church ma .org. That's Providence Baptist Church ma .org. Or even on sermon audio .com. Providence Baptist Church is delighted to sponsor iron sharpens iron radio.

Welcome back. This is Chris arms, and if you just tuned us in our guest today is my old friend pastor Bill Shishko. One of my favorite guests of all time. He is of the Orthodox Presbyterian Church in Franklin Square, Long Island, New York.

And we are discussing worship that is acceptable to God in studio with me. Today is my co-host the Reverend buzz Taylor. And if you'd like to join us on the air our email address is Chris Arnzen at gmail .com.

We have an anonymous listener who says I am a member of a reformed church. That has some charismatic influence, but is not full-blown charismatic or Pentecostal and they believe that Dance is an acceptable expression of worship.

Because it is found in the Old Testament. This makes me feel uncomfortable. Should it. Yeah, definitely, let me just let our listener know be patient.

And.

Also, please give me your full mailing address a promise I will not identify you because you've requested to remain anonymous. But you will receive a free genuine leather. Actually, it's a bonded leather, but a very beautiful New American Standard Bible.

Absolutely free of charge compliments of the publishers of the NASB if you provide for me your full mailing address. But if you could continue where you left off about the Old Testament's clear and frightening warnings about Approaching God in an irreverent manner.

Yeah. Yeah.

But the text is wherefore and it's that thankfulness the word they're smelling saturation. We're talking about everyone at number one and other words with a creator. I love how we go from being. You know, we're caught.

The second thing is because you're caught up in God. You have necessity caught up in and in his works and it caught up in his Imagination and if you're not caught up again. A phenomenal theme. I love this theme.

Why were the Israelites brought out of each metaphor, you know, it was worship me and and of course Chris I love to say this to you is what Pharaoh wouldn't let the little children go with the Israelites.

Moses said no way the children.

I'm sure Chris needed that. Thank you very much. I'm sorry. We've run out of time.

Anyway, so but more to the point so they're delivered out of the land of Egypt. They're delivered through the Red Sea. There's the works of God. It's a consummate Old Testament image leading us to the to the resurrection of Christ.

And then what does God do? He's a savior. He's a redeemer and and so. So what does it mean temptations of Christ do it all to your glory of God? What does you know?

Some have I think Really diminished the awe and reverence and Very uniqueness Of the corporate worship of God by stressing that all of life is worship. So therefore they feel free To incorporate things that you would do in your common everyday life Into their worship service.

Because hey if everything is worship Then why shouldn't we be allowed to participate in this in a worship service?

Yeah.

Well, this is I was just making some notes for the second hour because of this.

Yeah, so I will definitely come back to that. I want to go back to the all of life worship when we get into the practice and.

The The thing the thing that I have heard about what you started off the program with The the regulative principle I've even heard that from some reformed people is that if you are really A sinner saved by grace and you recognize the joy and the freedom of being released from that bondage the regulative principle They will say is not even a biblical biblically binding principle itself.

Just like the Roman Catholics say solo scriptura is not scriptural.

And.

That you really. Putting the joy and freedom of worship in a stranglehold. How do you respond? Yeah, that's a great.

That's a great question Chris that what it when I preach began we hear these will be worship. Worship because slaves. That's what you're getting. Because what if God says boy that were to end. And the way and the message basically precisely because We'll deal with Morgan or even burn.

And in language that that's Contemporary and with the other hand with traditional worship as we'll mention in the next. Remember that in our worship We are worshiping with and it is supposed to be access joy or serious worship services are full of lamentation.

Slaves, no, we're not slaves. The language of a free in crime deed, but you take his yoke upon you. So that's that's another false dilemma. Freedom. And that's that's a little bit more to corporate worship if you have a congregation of a hundred people.

It's not supposed to be a hundred people doing his or her own thing in worship. Personal worship. They'd be a little bit broader on what's done or fear of your parents. But then it right Chris right at the beginning.

Polar is it. We have a listener in Cumberland County, Pennsylvania.

BB who wants to know is it considered worship when a Christian during his private life outside of the corporate assembly is Using his gifts to praise God such as if he is a painter or dare say I a sculptor.

Not that he is creating images to be venerated. But that he is just creating Images as fruits of his gifts that God has given him for aesthetic pleasure. And while creating them he views it as an act of worship and thanks and praise to God for the gift He has received.

And as you know, there is some sharp disagreements though even amongst.

Like-minded brethren in all other areas men who may even share the same pew church. There's a sharp Contrast in the The view of whether or not any images are ever to be used even in an illustrated Bible I mean images of Christ that is Even an illustrated Bible even in the Children's Bible even an artwork in the home.

What is your view on that. In regard to even not only paintings, but even if someone were to have a Statue of Christ that was never to be used as an act or as a As a an object of veneration of worship, or it's just used as a meaningful.

Decoration in their home. Yeah. Well, I stand with what all We can't do that respect to people having image wise you and and when I Example our God is a consuming fire How how can that be depicted in a way that horror?

Reformers were unanimous and I need to study their arguments just for you reader for your listeners. John Owen Collected writings some of the most of one section in on as typical of Owen unanswerable now.

Did not Luther though take a different view than the other reformers on that.

Yeah, and remember that that Luther was and I love Luther. I took a class on Luther's. Really. Yeah praise the Lord for Luther. It's interesting the time magazine regarded 1999 when we came. Generation on liberty of conscience under the Word of God was Luther.

Probably Chris apropos so Liberty that he had a joy with the light with everything. And I think we got Bobby's. He was very sensitive to what worship. What was required and allowed Luther to go go in a broader way than we would.

Brothers has a question.

Well, yeah, and also I think at a time like this. It's also appropriate to let people know in case they ever saw this that the painting on your wall is John Calvin not Jesus.

Okay, I was talking about in my studio. There's a bearded gentleman in a painting on my.

I'm concerned about those who can't remain with us for the second hour and I just you know, I've. I want to make sure that I'm understanding the principle before we go on to the practice in the second hour.

You're saying then if I'm hearing you correctly, it can be summed up by Thankfulness and fear or reverence is reverence.

I mean, I think buzzes. We're gonna be going to another break right now.

And we do have a couple of listeners waiting to have their questions answered asked and answered on the air. And if you could be patient with us, we will get to you as soon as possible and Our email address if you'd like to join them as well is Chris Ornson at gmail .com.

Chris Ornson at gmail .com. Don't go away. We're gonna be right back with pastor Bill Shishko of the Orthodox Presbyterian Church in Franklin Square, Long Island, New York and Reverend buzz Taylor my co-host today as we discuss the theme What worship is acceptable to God.

Don't go away. We're gonna be right back. Paul wrote to the church at Galatia for am I now seeking the approval of man or of God? Or am I trying to please man. If I were still trying to please man, I would not be a servant of Christ.

Hi, I'm Mark Lukens pastor of Providence Baptist Church. We are a reformed Baptist Church and we hold to the London Baptist Confession of Faith of 1689. We are in Norfolk, Massachusetts. We strive to reflect Paul's mindset to be much more concerned with how God views what we say and what we do.

Than how men view these things? That's not the best recipe for popularity. But since that wasn't the Apostles priority, it must not be ours either. We believe by God's grace that we are called to demonstrate Love and compassion to our fellow man and to be vessels of Christ's mercy to a lost and hurting community around us and to build Up the body of Christ in truth and love if you live near Norfolk, Massachusetts or plan to visit our area.

Please come and join us for worship and fellowship. You can call us at 508 -528 -5750. That's 508 -528 -5750. Or go to our website to email us listen to past sermons worship songs or watch our TV program entitled resting in grace.

You can find us at Providence Baptist Church ma .org. That's Providence Baptist Church ma .org. Or even on sermon audio .com. Providence Baptist Church is delighted to sponsor iron sharpens iron radio.

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Welcome back and I just want to thank Lindbergh Baptist On Long Island, New York near the Queens border for being a sponsor of iron sharpens iron Going all the way back to 2006 and I just want you to know that they are having a special celebration in honor of the resurrection of Jesus Christ on March 27th at 8 30 a .m. And 10 45 a .m.

And They are having a free hot buffet breakfast from 9 15 a .m. To 10 30 a .m At Lindbergh Baptist Church in Lindbergh, Long Island, New York. And I just hope that if you live near there and you don't have a Congregation of your own that you are a member of.

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Their website is Lindbergh Baptist org. Ly n Brok Baptist o RG. Thanks a lot to pastor Bob Waldemann Sal D 'Antonio and the whole team over there of Brethren in Christ who are sponsoring iron sharpens iron radio and Now we are back on the program to discuss Worship acceptable to God with our guest Bill Shishko pastor of the Orthodox Presbyterian Church in Franklin Square, Long Island, New York and in studio with me is the Reverend buzz Taylor.

I will never call him the right Reverend buzz Taylor no matter how much he insists upon it. Definitely not the most right Reverend but.

We are.

Transitioning. I believe unless you have something more you want to say, but the principles we're going into the practice of worship.

Well, you know since Bill you and I come from a similar background. We remember those chapel sayings of Bob Jones senior where one of them he said was there's no difference between the sacred and the secular and in the last hour talking about worship, we were talking about all of life worship and This has been an issue that I've come through Having gone as you heard in the first hour.

I've been kind of around the block when it comes to churches and It hasn't been until recently that I even Thought about the concept of worship in any kind of serious way because it used to be just you know.

Whatever was done with is what we did, you know, but I think you use the term recently kind of loosely you've been. For about a decade.

Even longer than that as far as reform. But it you know. It takes a long time once you've gone reform to learn all there is to reform theology.

Every true Christian is reformed in his or her heart because he or she believes that God saves.

Yes, well as one said we are not only the problem is we we hit the pause button back in the 16th century and we Are reformed instead of reforming so I've been still reforming and one of the areas that I've been challenged on Over and over again has been this matter of worship and then to be perfectly honest with you.

I have found it Rather confusing. I'm not sure if it's just that complicated or if it's just not being stated well or whatever. But I see, you know as I was mentioning Bob Jones saying there's no difference between the sacred and the secular and it seems to me we have a pendulum that swings both ways since we're talking about the practice of worship now that Some people believe that whatever you can do In the world is acceptable to bring into worship because there's no difference and then other people would say whatever you do in worship Cannot be accepted in the world because it's worldly, you know, it goes the other way and I remember our friends in Alberta, I think you know what I'm talking about we're dealing with me for quite a while and of course the two subjects of exclusive sanity and instruments only and They mentioned that you know, they'd like to go to jazz concerts and things like that.

And I'm thinking well, wait a minute now, but you know yet When it says in the Psalms praise him with the sound of the trumpet you don't dare try to do that because that's that's no Longer, you know biblical worship and that's the whole point there a good friend that I respect used to refer to look for example liturgical worship as Biblical worship and then there was all other.

What about this. Wow.

How many more programs. Okay, let me. It's important to worship. It's called worship of the evangelical church it is. It is basically how Perspective, although it's what dated is an REY chapel or than Rayburn does with and then worship.

That's a very thoughtful volume that I think would touch buzz and sort of come out of that college opinion and buzz. You know, there's no difference between the sacred and the second that view that one credit.

Yes.

Millennialists on surrounding me here. Well, that's good. It'll keep you straight. You know the Psalms 149 and those two of what all Eternity will be and up there will not be no. It'll be the full for the prophet even that even the bells appreciate the view.