February 7, 2023 Show with Greg Moering on “The Day of Atonement: From Old Covenant Shadow to New Covenant Substance”

Live from historic downtown Carlisle, Pennsylvania, home of Founding Father James Wilson,

19th century hymn writer George Duffield, 19th century gospel minister George Norcross, and sports

legend Jim Thorpe, it's Iron Sharpens Iron.

This is a radio platform in which pastors, Christian scholars, and theologians address the burning

issues facing the Church and the world today.

Proverbs chapter 27 verse 17 tells us iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens

another.

Matthew Henry said that in this passage we are cautioned to take heed with whom we converse and directed to

have in view in conversation to make one another wiser and better.

It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next two hours, and we hope to hear from you, the

listener, with your own questions.

And now here's your host, Chris Arnzen.

Good afternoon, Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida, and the rest of

humanity living on the planet Earth who are listening via live streaming at

ironsharpensironradio .com.

This is Chris Arnzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Tuesday on this

seventh day of February 2023.

Before I introduce my guest today, I just want to remind you of some

exciting news that some of you may not have heard.

I mentioned it a few days ago, and I'm going to start now hopefully

remembering to remind you every day that the next Iron Sharpens Iron

Radio Free Pastors Luncheon is going to be held Thursday, April 13th,

11 a .m. to 2 p .m. at Church of the Living Christ in Loisville, Pennsylvania, which is Perry

County, Pennsylvania.

And for the very first time, I have two speakers at the luncheon rather than one,

and I also have two speakers that are my speakers for the very first time.

Neither one of these men have spoken at my luncheons before, but I have

known both of these men for decades.

I've known the first speaker that I'm going to mention, Dr. William Webster,

probably since the late 1980s.

He is an author who has written for the Banner of Truth and other publishers, and he

has primarily written on the subject of Roman Catholicism.

He also has written on the heresy of easy

believism and cheap grace amongst modern evangelicals.

So he gets both ends of the spectrum there with his writing career.

He is going to be joined by his friend and co -author, David T. King,

who is a Presbyterian minister in Katy, Texas, and both

Bill Webster and David King co -authored a massive, groundbreaking

three -volume, 900 -page work titled Holy Scripture, the Ground

and Pillar of Our Faith, which is primarily providing the patristic

evidence that the Church Fathers believed in sola scriptura long before the Protestant

Reformation.

They are both speaking at my pastor's luncheon.

As I said, it's free.

You get fed for free, and you hear these two brilliant men speak for free.

And on top of everything, everybody who attends is leaving with a heavy sack of free,

brand -new books donated by publishers across the United States

and the United Kingdom.

Many publishers have been doing this for me ever since I started these luncheons back in

the 1990s.

They are the brainchild of my precious late wife, Julie, who was the

one to come up with the idea that I do this annually at first.

Now I do it biannually.

And so I am just so excited about this for so many reasons, especially since I get

to see my old friends Bill Webster and David King again, and I have not seen them in

probably 15 years.

So I am really excited about this.

And then, on top of that, for the three days following that event,

which is being held at the Church of the Living Christ in Loisville, as I mentioned,

there will be a Bible conference I am hosting and arranging, which will be held in

Harrisburg, Pennsylvania, at the Grace Bible Fellowship Church in Harrisburg, a three -day

conference featuring William Webster and David King on the theme, The Gospel,

Removed by Rome, Rescued by the Reformers, and Rejected by Modern

Evangelicals.

That's going to be Friday night at 7 p .m., Saturday all day from 11 a .m. to 6 p

.m., and Sunday at the 10 .30 a .m. worship service and the 6 p .m. worship service

at Grace Bible Fellowship Church in Harrisburg.

Again, this is also a free event, absolutely free of charge.

If you want more details on how you can register for free for either of those events,

and let me remind you also, the pastor's luncheon is only for men in ministry

leadership, and the Bible conference is open to everybody, for men, women, and children.

So, send me an email, and I will let you know about both of those.

We just had the artwork done for the flyers by my dear

friend Angel Contreras, who, if you have not seen his artwork, he is a master at not only

artwork in general, but in caricature art, and I was introduced to him

by Dr. James R. White of Alpha and Omega Ministries, and he has been doing so many

extraordinary things for Iron Troupe and Zion Radio at no cost to us, so it's just

such an amazing gift to have that.

Send me an email to chrisarnson at gmail .com, and put luncheon and conference in the

subject line, and I will send you more details.

Well, as I mentioned, we have a guest today who is actually a first -time guest.

His name is Greg Mooring, and he has served as a senior pastor and a

conference speaker, and he's going to be addressing today the Day of Atonement from Old Covenant

Shadow to New Covenant Substance, and we're also going to be talking about a conference where he is speaking,

featuring Dr. James R. White and other speakers in Tullahoma, Tennessee, coming up very, very soon.

But it's my honor and privilege to welcome you for the very first time to Iron Troupe and Zion Radio, Greg Mooring.

Hello there, Mr. Aronson.

I appreciate you having me on.

It certainly came as a shock, to say the least,

when you messaged me and asked me to come on.

I'm kind of hiding myself off a little bit, so I'm not big into

tweeting.

I don't really do YouTube.

I'm much happier to hang out at my local church and

be satisfied with whatever God is doing there.

So it's a great pleasure to be here, and a

humbling one, to say the least.

Well, tell us about this Bible conference where you are speaking.

I know that it is being conducted by or arranged and hosted by

our mutual friend Jeffrey Rice, who is not only the founder of Post

-Tenebrous Lux Bible Rebinding, who just shipped me last week my

first Jeffrey Rice Bible Rebind, and it is mind -blowing how

gorgeous this Bible is, and the golden honey brown

distressed leather that I chose for this Bible is even more beautiful in my hand than

when I saw it in photographs.

So I am just so thrilled with Jeffrey Rice's work.

He is indeed a master at that.

Let me plug his website, even though you'll be hearing it throughout the show in his commercials.

But it's ptlbiblerebinding .com, ptlbiblerebinding .com.

But he is also the pastor of Covenant Reformed Baptist Church

in Tullahoma, Tennessee.

The conference that he is conducting at his church

is titled From Shadows to Substance.

Some of you may have heard my interview not long ago with Jeffrey when we said the topic was going

to be on the book of Ephesians, learning from the book of Ephesians or

something like that, but they changed the topic, and now it's From Shadows to Substance.

And the speakers include my dear friend Dr. James R. White of Alpha Omega Ministries, another dear

friend Andrew Rappaport of Striving for Eternity, Haps Addison, who was just on my

program recently discussing his testimony of being

delivered from the skinhead neo -Nazi racist movement into

the joy of Christ.

We also have on this lineup Claude Ramsey, who is one of the most powerful preachers I've ever heard,

and that's no exaggeration.

I had the privilege of hearing Claude preach at his fine church there in

Knoxville, Tennessee, Reformata Baptist Church, and I believe that we are going to be

lifelong friends.

It's hard not to want to be a friend of Claude Ramsey, such a warm and loving and humble brother.

Braden Patterson is on the lineup, Kevin Hay, Michael Schultz, and John

Crawford.

Those last three brethren I have not yet interviewed, but I'm looking forward to hopefully

getting them on the program in the near future.

But tell us about your specific role there at the conference,

what you intend to speak on, and so forth.

Yeah.

I will say, just like coming here on the program, being involved with the conference

comes as a humbling thing, a shocking thing.

I really do view myself as the least of all preachers that are going to be

there.

My focus in the conference is, originally I was supposed to do

the introduction to the book of Ephesians when the topic

of the conference was on Ephesians, and I was more

than happy to do that and get a breakdown of the book and all that it was going to do.

And then with the change being made from shadows to

substance, when Jeff asked me what I would like to preach on, I

was like, Leviticus 16, the Day of Atonement.

It is a chapter that the more I

delve into, the more that I deal with, the more I'm just my

mind is blown by how the gospel is being

preached through these signs.

How the Lord was, year in and year out, proclaiming what Christ would do,

and how each and every year it had to become more and

more evident, at least to those believers in the Old Covenant,

that this isn't working.

This isn't going to do it.

There is someone that this is pointing to.

Who is it going to be?

And then to see how our Lord Jesus, just how

it all is pointing to him, it's good.

It is meat for the soul, to say the least.

So I'm grateful for the opportunity that I

have to be with Jeff, to get to meet him for

the first time.

I've known of Jeff via the interwebs and through social media,

and primarily because of Dr. White's ministry.

He speaks of him, and then the connection they end up making with Jeff, it's like, wow,

how did I get connected with Jeff Rice from afar?

So that is, in a nutshell, what

my role will be there.

I'll be the opening preacher, so I'm setting the tone.

Hopefully, I'll be able to set the tone in such a place where I'll be completely forgotten, and

the Word of God will be lifted up, the name of Christ will be exalted, and it won't matter who's preaching.

It'll just be, give us the Word.

Show us Jesus, brothers.

Amen.

And this conference is going to be held right around the corner,

February 16th through the 18th in Tullahoma, Tennessee.

If you want more details on how to register and attend, you can go to the Facebook page of

Jeffrey Rice, and he spells his name J -E -F -F -E -R -Y, Rice.

And you can also go to Eventbrite and look for

the From Shadows to Substance conference in Tullahoma, Tennessee.

And you can also go to the website of the

aforementioned Jeffrey Rice, the website of Covenant Reform Baptist

Church in Tullahoma, Tennessee.

And I am going to get that website for you momentarily.

I had it on my screen moments ago, and I must have somehow accidentally deleted it,

but you can be sure that I will get that for you

momentarily.

Let me give you our email address so that our listeners can send in questions

when we get the ball rolling as far as the theme is concerned of today,

which once again is the Day of Atonement, From Old Covenant Shadow to New Covenant Substance.

ChrisArnson at gmail .com.

ChrisArnson at gmail .com.

Give us your first name at least, your city and state, and your country of residence.

And by the way, I just found it, the website for Covenant Reform Baptist Church of Tullahoma, Tennessee, where

our friend Jeffrey Rice is the pastor.

CovenantRBCTN .com.

CovenantRBC for Reform Baptist Church.

TN for Tennessee .com.

And God willing, we will be announcing that later.

Before we enter into the theme on the Day of Atonement, since you are a first

-time guest, we have a tradition here on Iron Trump and Zion Radio where whenever

we have a first -time guest, that guest provides a summary of their salvation testimony, and that

would include the kind of religious atmosphere, if any, in which they were raised,

the kinds of providential circumstances that the Lord raised up in their lives that drew them

to himself and saved them.

And I'd love to hear your story.

Yeah.

So, you know, I've been a believer now since 2002.

I was 15 going on 16.

So it was the summer of

going into my junior year in high school in 2002.

I had finished up my sophomore year.

My sophomore year was my first year of playing football.

And it was that summer that I had that the Lord rescued me.

The Lord saved me.

What kind of led to all of that, to that moment of June 10, 2002,

was I had, I can kind of back it up

several years and say, you know, when you have 20 years to look at in hindsight, you really start

seeing where the Lord had begun to move you to

where you would come to faith.

I had, I want to say through middle school, I want to say into my eighth grade year, I

had been asked, you know, what I wanted for Christmas that year.

Because I wasn't, we weren't raised in a Christian home.

I mean, I really was kind of the first Christian in my household.

And.

And I'd say growing up in the 90s, kind of the typical American.

Southern household where, you know, your parents.

You know, profess to be Christians, you celebrated Christmas, you celebrated Easter.

I had, you know, had a general, you know, your God existed.

I believe that, you know, I had the idea in my mind, you know, that Jesus was the son of God.

There was no question about that, but we never went to church.

I think the only time I ever stepped foot in a church growing up that I can ever recall is for somebody's

wedding.

So that was the only time I ever went to church.

I don't ever recall otherwise.

And so it was.

So for Christmas, my eighth grade year, I'd have been asked what I wanted for Christmas.

And I wanted a Bible, which was unusual.

I didn't own one at the time for myself.

I had been reading my dad's.

It was just like, OK, I'd like to have my own.

And so they asked me what kind.

I'm like, well, obviously the original one, which in my mind was apparently the King James.

Because I didn't know.

I didn't know any different.

I've met a lot of I've met a lot of pastors who agree with that.

Right.

You know, so I didn't I didn't know any different.

It was just because it's what my dad had.

And so I was just like, you know, I want the same thing.

And it was a Thompson chain reference Bible.

And I would sit there and read it.

I just read it because it was interesting because it was the Bible.

It was no question in my mind that this was the book from God.

This was God's book.

I mean, what else was it?

And but I didn't believe I didn't have saving faith.

And really, my house didn't have saving faith.

We didn't.

I mean, there was nothing.

I was I was of the persuasion when my mom or dad would talk about us wanting to go to church, you

know, to get us into a good church when we finally had a place to live.

And, you know, that was stable and settled down.

I was like, I don't want to go to church.

I have to wear a suit, which is funny because today I wear a suit.

So, you know, I was so opposed to that.

So I guess you're not a Calvary Chapel minister.

No, no, no, no, not at all.

Not at all.

And actually, actually, in the 21st century, there's a lot of Reformed Baptist pastors that don't wear them either.

All right.

You know, I wear it.

You know, it's a personal thing, but, you know, I'm not a I'm not a I don't look down on anybody that does otherwise.

So it's great because, you know, it's great.

Actually, I've actually find that at least a sport coat is great for for carrying a handgun

because it's easy to conceal.

But to protect the flock that way.

But the you know, I said I grew up not in a Christian home.

I wanted this Bible for Christmas for my eighth grade year.

And I would read this thing off and on.

And, you know, I know that was just kind of it.

And that was that way for like two or three years.

Well, my going into my freshman year of high school, a buddy of mine wanted to play football.

And, you know, my dad played football.

My uncle played football.

So I'm thinking, oh, it's a natural thing.

Like, I'll play football, which was odd because I was a couch potato up until that point.

And we had my buddy wanted to play.

And I thought about doing it.

And then I think now I'm not going to do it.

He did.

He skipped that.

He did his freshman year.

Never played again.

Well, it kind of sat on me throughout the rest of the year.

Like, man, I wish I had done that.

And so I joined.

You know, I signed up for at the end of my freshman year to go into my sophomore year.

So that was that.

So going into the summer.

So this would be the summer of 2001, which would be my freshman to sophomore years in high school.

That summer, I had I went through all the workouts, which was

excruciating for me because I was couch potato.

Like, what am I doing?

Lifting weights and doing all this stuff.

So I finished that up.

I get into the very first day of practice where we were

actually running drills, doing all the stuff that we had to do to play football.

I got yelled at.

All right, because I had I hadn't buckled my chin strap on my helmet and I was I'm

getting yelled at.

I'm like, who's this guy thinking?

He's yelling at me.

Of course, he's my coach.

It's what they do.

But, you know, I had.

I am sent to run a lap because I hadn't buckled my chin strap and which,

in hindsight, I rightly deserve to get all of this.

But I come back.

This is the very, very first day of practice.

I take my helmet off and I throw it down.

I go, have your helmet.

I'm out.

And I call my mom and she had to come pick me up.

But the very first guy, the very first coach that came and talked to me because I was I was on

the line, both offensive and defensive.

And the very first guy that came and talked to me was a youth pastor of a church

that I have passed by every single day, but never noticed

ever.

It was just there and it was just part of the scenery.

And, you know, he he talked with me to try to convince me to stick

around, don't quit all of that and invited me to his youth group.

So this is the summer of 2001.

Mentioned that again, it was June of 2002 that I came to faith.

Well, this night of quitting, I ended up having probably, I don't know, five,

six hour conversation with my dad, which I'm thankful for.

I'm so grateful for my dad having this discussion.

Because I went back the next day and then I played football for the next three years

for my high school.

And the thing.

That was it.

There was nothing else really related to church, nothing related to any, you know, to Christ

other than, you know, there'd be again, because I was in North Carolina at the time.

And we would say the Lord's Prayer before a game, other than the fact that we're in North Carolina.

And it was a thing.

I don't understand why, but we did.

And that was it.

Well.

Easter of 2002.

So this this sophomore year of high school, the Easter

of 2002, my parents, we finally went to church for the first time in my life.

And we left.

We left that church, this church that we went to.

And we're like, yeah, I don't think we're going to go back to that one.

And so I was like, hey, why don't we go to Coach's Church?

This is the coach who had invited me to, you know, to the youth group months

earlier.

And so we went the following week.

And from that point on, it was kind of that was from that point that we got really plugged in because there were

people that I knew there.

My coach, who was the youth pastor, was there.

All of that.

And so, you know, you're talking about March or April, whatever Easter was in 2002.

From that point on, started going attending.

Well.

So three or three months, four months, whatever, two, three months, whatever it was, been

attending.

And then the youth retreat came up and wanted to go and did

go.

And it ended up being June.

It was June 10th, 2002.

It was a Monday night.

I remember this because we ran a pretty tight schedule.

Sunday was the first day of this event.

And it was it was that night when really for the first time.

I understood.

You know, my eyes were opened to the reality of.

The weight of my sin.

And how.

Wicked I really was and how doomed I was.

It was at that moment kind of became where it felt like a gorilla on my back.

And, you know, as I've seen it later, you know, out of like Pilgrim's Progress, when Christian,

at least in I haven't fully read the book, you know, I could be beat up later

for not reading Pilgrim's Progress completely.

But I've watched at least the animated film with my with my kids.

And the moment when Christian, you know, he's feeling that weight of the burden.

That then is released.

I understand that because it was that night.

The burden of my sin.

Was so great that

that I had to go, Lord, save me.

I have sinned against you.

I deserve.

I deserve hell.

I deserve.

Everything you say that I deserve.

I deserve it.

I admit it.

And I have sinned against you.

But if you, you know, if you're as merciful as you say that you are.

I'm throwing everything at your feet.

You know, I bow to you as my savior and my Lord.

You own me.

I don't want any.

I don't want.

I don't want anything to do with myself anymore.

I want you.

And, you know, that night when is my theology, especially

began to deepen and better understood that it was the night that the

spirit of God woke me from the dead that he brought me back from the dead and gave

me eyes to see that he gave me ears to hear.

He gave me a heart to receive his word and then gave

me the faith that I needed to believe.

And.

And it was kind of from that moment, you know, the next the next morning, I mean, I remember

like the day before, I remember Monday reading my Bible.

And then the next day, Tuesday morning waking up going, whoa.

Something, you know, this is a different day.

And then when I opened my Bible and going, I'm reading this book a whole lot different, my eyes are

different now.

To see this, that this this isn't just God's book.

This is my father's book.

This is my Lord's book.

And I'm so glad to be able to read it with those eyes.

So that that's, you know, bringing up to that.

It's about a month later.

In fact, if you could pick up right where you left off when we return to from our first commercial break.

Absolutely.

Just remember, it's a month later after your miraculous conversion by the Holy

Spirit and the grace and mercy of God.

And we'll pick up right there where you left off.

If anybody has any questions, send them to chrisarnsen at gmail .com.

C -H -R -I -S -A -R -N -Z -E -N at gmail .com.

Give us your first name, at least your city and state and your country of residence.

If you live outside the USA, only remain anonymous.

If your question involves a personal and private matter, we'll be right back after these messages.

Do not go away.

James White of Alpha Omega Ministries here.

I'm very excited to announce that my longtime friend Chris Arnson of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio and I

are heading down to Atlanta, Georgia again for the G3 National Conference.

That's Thursday, September 21st through Saturday the 23rd on a theme that I've been preaching, teaching,

writing about and defending in live public debates for most of my life.

The sovereignty of God.

I'll be joined on the speaking roster by Steve Lawson, Voti Baucom, Paul Washer, Virgil Walker, Scott

Anuel and Josh Bice, founder of G3 Ministries.

And there's more great news.

Chris Arnson of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio can get you a 30 discount off the registration

fee.

Go to g3min .org.

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And enter promo code G3ISIR.

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Chris Arnson, I look forward to seeing you all Thursday, September 21st through Saturday the 23rd at the G3

National Conference in Atlanta, Georgia on the sovereignty of God.

Make sure you stop by the Iron Sharpens Iron Radio exhibitor booth and say hi to Chris Arnson while

you're there.

Go to g3min .org and enter promo code G3ISIR for your

30 discount off the registration fee.

I'm

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The Prince of Preachers Charles Haddon Spurgeon once said, Growing a beard is a habit most natural, scriptural, manly

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I'm Dr.

Joseph Piper, President Emeritus and Professor of Systematic and Applied Theology.

At Greenville Presbyterian Theological Seminary.

Every Christian who's serious about the Deformed Faith and the Westminster Standards should have and use

the eight -volume commentary on the theology and ethics of the Westminster Larger Catechism titled

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It is much more than an exposition of the Larger Catechism.

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James White of Alpha Omega Ministries here.

If you've watched my Dividing Line webcast often enough, you know I have a great love for getting Bibles and other

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Hello, my name is Anthony Uvino, and I'm one of the pastors at Hope Reform Baptist Church in Quorum, New York, and

also the host of the reformrookie .com website.

I want you to know that if you enjoy listening to the Iron Sharpens Iron Radio show like I do, you can now find it on the

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You no longer have to worry about missing a show or a special guest because you're in your car or still at work.

Just subscribe on the iTunes app and listen to the Iron Sharpens Iron Radio show at any time, day or night.

Please be sure to also give it a good review and pass it along to anyone who would benefit from the teaching and the many

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Truth is so hard to come by these days, so don't waste your time with fluff or fake news.

Subscribe to the Iron Sharpens Iron Radio podcast right now.

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We are dedicated to teaching Christian theology from a Reformed Baptist perspective to beginners in the faith as

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From Keech's Catechism and the Doctrines of Grace to the Olivet Discourse and the Book of Leviticus, the Reform

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And finally, if you're looking to worship in a Reformed church that holds to the 1689 London Baptist Confession

of Faith, please join us at Hope Reformed Baptist Church in Corham, New York.

Again, I'm Pastor Anthony Evino, and thanks for listening.

Welcome back.

If you just tuned us in, our guest today is Greg Mooring, who has served as a senior pastor

and a conference speaker.

We are discussing the Day of Atonement from Old Covenant Shadow to New Covenant Substance.

We're also promoting the upcoming conference from Shadows to Substance.

And if you have any questions for Greg, send them to ChrisArnson at gmail .com.

Give us your first name at least, city and state, and country of residence.

We already have several questions that have come in, but before I go to them, I want you to continue where you

left off on your salvation testimony.

And the last thing you said was a month later, and that was in reference to a month after you

were regenerated by the Holy Spirit, born again.

If you could pick up where you left off.

Absolutely.

I appreciate that.

And I guess what providential timing, you know, a month later, dot, dot, dot.

You know, good cliffhanger, I hope.

So about a month later is when I was baptized by immersion, you know,

as a believer.

And, you know, at that point I thought, you know, hey, all this gravy.

You know, I'm like, man, this is awesome.

And what's funny is because I'm now kind of the raging

Calvinist in my family, shall we say.

And, you know, that was about three months later that I, after being saved, I went back to

school, junior year in high school, and had my first encounter with Jonathan Edwards,

Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God.

So that was a bit much for me as a three -month -old believer to take in.

Since then, I, of course, am grateful to the Lord for that.

But, you know, without getting into all the details there of what this first year kind of

entailed, so June 10, 2002 rolls around.

It's going into my junior year.

And I'm thinking, man, wow, this is great.

Well, within a year, I saw my family dissolve.

My mom and dad eventually separated and then divorced.

They, you know, I've got, I mean, all sorts of stuff, you know, kind of fallen in around.

I'm like, what in the world is happening here?

And I look back in hindsight and have said for 20 years that I am glad that the Lord had

mercy on me when he did.

Because I don't know what would have happened, where I would have gone,

if it had not been for the fact that he had saved me when he did.

Because it was then relying on his promises where he says, you know, I will never

leave you nor forsake you.

Or when I read in the Psalms when, you know, David says, you know, when my father, mother or father forsake me,

the Lord will take me up.

That was, I was like, man, that's in the Bible.

I'm so glad God gave us these promises.

And so eventually, you know, I see where eventually the Lord would then

call me to ministry in my senior year.

And I began to pursue that for quite some time.

I've had opportunities since then to preach, to pastor.

I've got this, you know, this participation in this conference.

I've preached at another conference.

I've done pulpit supply at several churches in different states.

And, you know, in all of this, you know, I've been able to see, you know,

my wife.

We've got five children together.

We've been married 12 years.

So the vast majority of my time as a Christian has been

married with my bride.

We've seen another point.

Another point is I look in this walk with the Lord and,

you know, trusting him day in, day out.

2018, our fourth child, Annalise, was born.

And at that moment, when she was born,

that day, without getting into too much detail there, what I'll say is that

after she was born, she stopped breathing.

Like immediate, almost immediately, within 10 minutes.

And that happened six times.

And I watched six times her have to be resuscitated.

And then us fly, because we were living in southern Idaho at the time.

We were in Twin Falls, Idaho.

Had to be flown from Twin Falls with her to Boise, which is about a 120 -mile

drive, in order for her to be at the NICU there in Boise,

where for three days they would cool her down in hopes of, one, hoping that she'll live,

two, that it would be able to handle any damage that may have come

because of these issues she was having.

And in those three days, which were leading up to my birthday, because she was born two days before my birthday,

I'm sitting here going, Lord, I believe in your sovereignty.

And you tell me that you work out all things together for good for those who love you and are called according to your purpose in Christ Jesus.

Lord, I don't—and I know that you love this little girl more than I ever will.

I don't know what you're doing, but I trust you.

I have no idea, Lord, but I trust you.

She's now four years old.

Praise God.

Praise God.

And we have things where we wonder what happened because she's four,

and we've got three others besides her and one younger than her.

But, you know, I got to see through this,

the Lord used this little girl and what was going on.

The church that we were members at at the time, Eastside Baptist Church in Twin Falls, Idaho,

I got to see that Christ worked through his people in that church to minister

to my family and then also to see that this situation would then minister to

those in the congregation where a dear friend of mine that's there

would call me and go, Greg, I don't understand what you're going through, but I will

tell you, seeing your faith through this is

encouraging me in the midst of this.

So, yeah, I don't

want to talk about myself too much, but I can look back,

wrapping this up, I can look back at key

moments and see the providential hand of God doing

exactly what he said he would do, which is work out all things together for good, to

see him faithful in too many times

to count.

And so, yeah, that's a story in a nutshell that I

would like to one day maybe sit down, you know, for posterity's sake, for

my children, grandchildren, great -grandchildren, write out this, and not only do

I want to actually read, I want to record myself reading the whole Bible for my

children, grandchildren, and great -grandchildren, but also record, you know, make

some record of the Lord's dealings in my life so that they

could look back at that and see, you know, give him glory for

a really big deal that happened in June 10, 2002.

Praise God.

Well, when we come back from our midway break, I just want to spend a little more time on your conversion

because I want to speak about how you discovered and embraced the doctrines of sovereign grace.

Yes.

And then we'll go into our major theme of the Day of the Atonement.

And I just want to remind our listeners that since this is our midway break, it is a

longer break than the other breaks in the show because Grace Life Radio, 90 .1 FM in Lake City, Florida, who

airs this program, they are required by the FCC to localize this show

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And they do that by airing their own public service announcements and other local things during the middle of the show.

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Write down as much of the contact information as you possibly can for as

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Don't go away.

We're going to be back with Greg Mooring right after these messages from our sponsors.

James White of Alpha Omega Ministries here.

I'm very excited to announce that my longtime friend Chris Arnson of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio and I

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That's Thursday, September 21st through Saturday the 23rd on a theme that I have been preaching, teaching,

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Chris Arnson and I look forward to seeing you all Thursday, September 21st through Saturday the 23rd at the G3

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It's such a blessing to hear from Iron Sharpens Iron Radio listeners from all over the world.

Here's Joe Reilly, a listener in Ireland, who wants you to know about a guest on the show

he really loves hearing interviewed, Dr. Joe Moorcraft.

I'm Joe Reilly, a faithful Iron Sharpens Iron Radio listener here in Atai in County Kildare, Ireland.

Going back to 2005, one of my very favorite guests on Iron Sharpens Iron is Dr. Joe

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If you visit, tell them Joe Reilly, an Iron Sharpens Iron radio listener, from a tie in County Kildare, Ireland,

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If you're near retirement or thinking about retiring, you probably have questions.

How do you make your savings last?

How much should you take out, and when?

You're ready for retirement, but are your finances?

Art Amundsen, an Edward Jones financial advisor, can help you build a strategy to help make sure your

finances keep up with your long -term needs.

Do what it takes to get there.

Now it's time to make the most of retirement.

Visit EdwardJones .com.

That's EdwardJones .com.

Or call 717 -258 -4688.

717 -258 -4688.

We here at Iron Sharpens Iron Radio are forever grateful for the generous financial support

of Art Amundsen, Edward Jones financial advisor in Carlisle, Pennsylvania.

Call 717 -258 -4688 today.

If you love Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, one of the best ways you can help keep the show on the air is

by supporting our advertisers.

One such faithful advertiser who really believes in what Chris Arnton is doing is

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Hi, I'm Buzz Taylor.

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Pastor Bill Sasso, Grace Church at Franklin, here in the beautiful state of Tennessee.

Our congregation is one of a growing number of churches who love and support Iron Sharpens

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Grace Church at Franklin is an independent, autonomous body of believers which strives

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And of course, the end for which we strive is the glory of God.

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This is Pastor Bill Sasso wishing you all the richest blessings of our Sovereign

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Before I return to my guest Greg Mooring and continuation of the Salvation

Testimony and also to discuss the Day of Atonement, I just have a couple of very

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Also, I want our listeners to know about the First Love Ministries first annual

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First Love Ministries is the parent ministry of First Love Radio who live

streams this program every single day.

And this conference, their first annual conference, is on examining the new birth, including such

speakers as the founder of First Love Ministries, my dear friend, Joe Jakowicz.

That's March 3rd through the 5th in Milton, Florida.

For more details, go to firstloveministries .org, firstloveministries .org.

Last but not least, if you are not a member of a Christ -honoring, biblically faithful, theologically sound church, no matter

where you live in the world, I may be able to help you find a church,.

Send me an email.

To chrisarnson at gmail .com and put I need a church in the subject line.

That's also the email address where you can send in a question to Greg Mooring, our guest today, on the Day of Atonement,

or perhaps you have a question about something he said in his own personal salvation testimony.

That's chrisarnson at gmail .com.

Give us your first name at least, city and state, and country of residence.

And again, if we could pick up in your testimony where you came to discover the

doctrines of sovereign grace and embrace them.

I know that you already mentioned that you had an encounter with sinners in the hands of an angry God.

The sermon by Jonathan Edwards that has been in print ever since he

gave that sermon and how the Lord used that in Great Revival.

But tell us more specifically when the doctrines of sovereign grace were

introduced to you where you clearly saw what these doctrines were teaching

and how you came to embrace them.

Yeah, I appreciate that.

So, what's funny about the sinners in the hands of an angry God, it was in my high school textbook.

It was American literature, and it happened to be in there, and that's how I ended up encountering that.

But for myself, when coming to the doctrines of sovereign grace,

I would say it was probably two or three years

into my conversion.

So, it was 2006, 2005, somewhere in there, so pretty

early on.

And it didn't really come because of...

I mean, that early on, YouTube wasn't even a thing.

It really came from my own study of the scriptures, is all that I can say.

I didn't go...

The church that I was a part of and a church that I still dearly love, people I still dearly love...

Calvinism in South...

I didn't even know what Calvinism was.

I'd never even heard of it.

And...

I was...

It really came from my own reading of Exodus and Romans.

And I had...

I would read Exodus, and I would see where God...

I mean, it's pretty clear in the text that Pharaoh would harden his heart, but then God

would harden Pharaoh's heart, and then judge Pharaoh for having a hard heart.

And, you know, I just...

It was like, huh?

This doesn't make any sense.

And I would venture...

I'd read Romans in particular, Romans 9.

And I see Romans 9 having the very discussion that I'm having in my own head, in heart,

over what God was doing with Pharaoh.

And I've gone back and forth, back and forth with this, until eventually I come to realize I'm

actually asking the question of...

Why then does God find fault?

And when I realized I'm asking that very question, and God is already anticipating my

question, and responding to me with, who are you, old man, to

answer back to God?

I go, oh, I...

Who am I to answer back to God?

You know, God is God, I am not.

And...

You know, I...

I just kind of end up having this innate acceptance

of the sovereignty of God over everything.

I don't know how that fully plays out.

I don't know the fullness of what that means.

But what I do know is, okay, that my salvation was not because of me.

I didn't do anything to earn this.

God did not...

You know, it wasn't a matter of God looking down the corridors of time and seeing that I would believe.

It was God coming to me and telling me, hey, wake up.

Believe.

And giving me the faith to believe.

Because, you know, I could just look back to when I was saved in June 10, 2002, and go,

that wasn't me.

Like, it wasn't something that I generated.

It was definitely me believing.

I definitely believed.

But there was something outside of me that had brought me to this conclusion.

So it was pretty early on.

And it wasn't until actually, I don't know, later, I kind of

sat as this, I would say, in my church.

I held this belief.

And it wasn't until later that I found out that I had a name.

This thing called Calvinism.

I'm like, oh!

And I hear what this is and what people are saying and I read about how many people hate it.

And I'm reading and I go, but that's what the Bible teaches.

It's this thing.

I'm like, oh, it has a name.

So I'm not completely crazy.

That I'm reading the Bible this way.

And this is what I believe it to say.

And so it was, I'd say probably somewhere around 2006, 2007,

2008, somewhere in that.

So pretty early in my faith.

So I wasn't in a spot where, I don't think I ever went through a cage stage because

I had nothing to be angry about.

Because I was so new in the faith that anything and everything I was just devouring.

And I had a church that I loved, even though I would come to find out in some places, especially with my

belief in the doctrines of grace, that I would differ from many in the church.

But these are people I loved.

And so it's like, okay, we differ.

But we love Jesus.

So that's kind of how it came.

And then as time went on, I continued to study of the

Bible and some other doctrinal works.

Not only embracing Calvinism, like a full -throated Calvinism,

but really coming to, as far as I understand it,

Reformed Baptist covenant theology and the whole play around that and how that all

works together.

And so that's where I'm at today.

And I'm grateful.

I'll say this.

I know we mentioned about good churches.

I'm grateful for the church that we're at, which is First Baptist Church of Cullman in Cullman, Florida.

And we hold the 1689 at our church.

I've got to give a shout -out to the churches in Idaho.

Eastside Baptist Church in Twin Falls, a good, faithful church,

faithful, sovereign, grace -preaching preachers.

And also Valley Baptist Church, where I know you mentioned Brayden Patterson, who will be at the conference.

That's a church that I once pastored.

And my buddy Brayden is now the pastor there.

So if anybody's in the listening area of anywhere of those three churches, certainly those are some good

churches to be a part of that preach sovereign grace.

And you'll get Bible when you go.

So hopefully that answers about coming to the doctrines of grace.

Amen.

I had my mic turned around.

We have a couple of listener questions here.

I don't know if this is intended to be a joke.

I have a feeling it is.

But we have a first -time questioner, Travis in Cullman, Florida.

That's got to be my pastor.

Oh, it's your pastor?

Yeah.

He says, How does it feel to know that you're the only premillennialist speaking

at the conference?

What are the chances that you'll change your position after spending a couple of days with James

White?

Hashtag dat post mill.

Well, actually, he's wrong, though.

Andrew Rappaport is not only premillennial, he's dispensationalist.

And he's speaking on the roster.

He is a Calvinist dispensationalist.

And describes himself as being soteriologically reformed, even though he's a dispensationalist.

But that's at least one other person.

But I know that you're not dispensationalist, though.

Yeah, I'm not a dispy.

And I don't say that in a derogatory way.

But, yeah.

And actually, just now, recently, with Brandon

Scaff stepping out, with Michael Schultz now filling in.

Michael Schultz is also a premillennialist.

And we've had some jokes on Facebook about that.

And I've talked with Braden as well.

I'm like, man, I'm so glad Michael came on.

Because I wasn't aware with Andrew Rappaport, his

eschatological leanings.

And I was like, man, I feel like I'm the lone man out.

I'm probably the only premillennialist there.

But now with Michael Schultz there, I'm not the lone man anymore.

As far as I can understand, a historic premillennial, in my eschatological

views, for me, as I've read the Bible cover to

cover and cover to cover, year in and year out, for the majority

of being a Christian, I've come to the

conclusion that there is a premillennial return of the Lord Jesus.

I love having those discussions with my friends, including my pastor.

And just having that, we agree that Jesus is coming back.

We agree that on the overarching

things, it's those finer points of eschatology that we differ in.

But yeah.

So I'm a premill.

So hashtag dat premill.

Well, actually, you didn't answer his question, though.

Do you think that you're going to convert to post -millennialism?

Oh, no, not at all.

Or do you think there's any danger of it?

No, not even close.

I didn't mean to offend my post -millennial listeners by saying any danger of it.

But in your mind, any danger of it?

No.

I don't see.

I would love to have those discussions.

But I'm pretty solidly premill, because I just find that to be

the— I think that's the storyline of the Bible.

The storyline of the Bible leads to, I think, a premillennial

position.

So, no, I don't think that—.

I'm used to being the lone man on the totem pole when it comes to certain

doctrinal issues.

I'm like the lone Reformed Baptist in a family that's— at least on one side of my family,

more Pentecostal.

And I've often been the lone Calvinist in a sea of Arminians that I love.

So, I guess I'm built

to be an opposition.

Well, by the way, Pastor Travis, since you are a first -time questioner,

you have won a free New American Standard Bible.

I hope that you're not King James only and that you will enjoy this Bible.

We always give our first -time questioners a free New American Standard Bible, compliments

of the publishers of the NASB, and also compliments of Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service,

cvbbs .com, who will ship that Bible out to you.

So please send me your full mailing address.

We have another listener in Moundville, Alabama.

His name is Ted, and he is bringing up a

recent interview that I conducted with William Webster, who I mentioned earlier in the

show is one of my two speakers at the upcoming Iron Triple Zion Radio

Free Pastors Luncheon and also a three -day free Bible conference,

along with his co -author David T. King.

But Ted in Moundville, Alabama says, in your January 25th

interview, Dr. William Webster described himself as evangelical in the

right sense of what the word means.

Presumably, he is distinguishing his sense of the word evangelical from

a wrong sense of the word as used in common parlance.

What is the correct sense of the word at which he is hinting by default?

I guess he means what you think.

I don't know if you realize, Ted, that we have a different guest on today.

Who is using the word in such a manner, and to what end?

Obviously, there are millions of people, even in this country, who

would describe themselves as evangelical, who are not even regenerate, because of

the way that the popularity of many

false teachers on radio and television and in Christian bookstores

that have not only dumbed down the Bible and the gospel, but have actually

replaced it with a false gospel, and it's being swallowed wholesale by millions of people.

But why don't you answer the question?

Apparently, Ted was not happy with the way Dr. Webster answered it.

So why don't you answer, what is the incorrect sense of

this word, evangelical, and who is using the word in such a manner, and to what end?

Okay, let's give this one a shot.

I would say that in an incorrect way, something I've seen,

this term of the Big Eva, that you've got people who are

nominally Protestant, that are, okay, we're not Roman Catholic,

but are often really wishy -washy when it comes

to doctrine, when it comes to preaching of the word, when it comes to

the worship of God, and this kind of even gets into,

when we get into the topic of the Day of Atonement, we see that they kind of

often seem to have more in line with Nadab and Abihu and offering strange fire with no

concern whatsoever for what God has said.

And it just kind of, as long as we're not sinning, disobeying

something, then we can, and we're not

Roman Catholics or Greek Orthodox, so we can just call ourselves evangelical.

I think it's so often, I think evangelical often gets just used as that,

just a distinction between a, to distinguish us from

being Roman Catholic or Greek Orthodox or Mormon or Jehovah's Witness or anything around those lines,

whereas I think properly understood to be truly evangelical is that you're actually about the

evangel, that you're actually about the gospel, that you actually are about the calling of sinners to

repentance and calling them to faith alone, Christ alone, and

obedience to our Lord and his commands.

And we've said that if we love him, that we'll obey what he says, we'll obey his commands.

And so I think that it's often, I guess the wrong sense, as I would take it just

off the question, is probably those who just use it as a catch -all phrase

for the just general nominal Christianity

that isn't, that's of the Protestant variety of some sort, but that doesn't actually

give two hoots about the gospel and proclaiming it and calling

people to repent and believe.

Thanks for the question, Ted.

Now we must move on to our theme, which I don't think I've ever started the theme of an

intended interview this late before, but everything that was said was so fascinating, I didn't want to cut it

short or interrupt you.

So tell us about the Day of Atonement, its biblical roots in

Leviticus, and how did this shadow become fulfilled

as a substance in the New Covenant?

So, you know, we start off in Leviticus 16.

It actually opens up and says now, reading from the Legacy Standard Bible, says now Yahweh

spoke to Moses after the death of the two sons of Aaron when they came near the presence of Yahweh and

died.

So we begin, like, the Day of Atonement as a command, you know, the instructions that

we get in Leviticus 16 sits like smack dab in the middle of Leviticus.

And, you know, which you would seem to be, hey, this is a pretty important point, you know, that we need

to pay attention to.

But it opens up with this heralding back

to Leviticus 10 where Nadab and Abihu offer up

strange fire.

They offer up this incense that the Lord calls strange fire.

It doesn't describe, like, what is it meant necessarily by strange.

Was it green?

Was it purple?

Was it, you know, what was it other than it was, I would say that the

strangeness to it is that it was not something God commanded.

And so because God had not commanded it, and they just walked in brazenly,

frankly, that God struck them dead.

And it was then that Moses tells Aaron, you don't get to weep for your sons.

And it's in the shadow of that that then God gives his command

by Moses to Aaron and all of his all subsequent high priests

that basically to say, what I'm about to tell you, you will do it exactly the way I tell you to do it.

Because if you don't, you're going to die.

Because this is important.

And, you know, what we see with Aaron, you know, without reading the whole of the

chapter, what you see is the high priest is given this instruction of

changing his clothes, where if you look earlier, I believe in

Exodus, where the high priest's clothing is described

as this really ornate, beautiful clothing that I've

read before.

It's kind of royal.

It's royal colors.

It's blue.

It's purple.

It's gold.

It's to show a kind of a priest king is

how he is.

So you're supposed to look at the high priest and see something that there's a royal priesthood here being

represented by the high priest.

But when he goes in for the Day of Atonement, which was, you know, once a year on the seventh

month, on the tenth day of the seventh month, that he was to

change his clothes to something that was just plain, this plain linen

garment.

He was to go and wash himself.

He was supposed to take a bath before he goes and does all of this.

That there are several offerings that he is to make.

And he's doing this all by himself.

And as I was reading Spurgeon's sermon on this, he pointed out that there were also the

other sacrifices and things that had to take place every single day, that it appears that the high priest

is the one making, he's doing all the work all day long

on this particular day.

And so Aaron is given these instructions to change his clothes,

take a bath.

You've got this bowl that you're supposed to be offering.

You've got the two goats that are involved.

He's going and he's slaughtering the bowl.

He's sprinkling blood here, sprinkling blood there.

And he's supposed to do all of this in accordance with

exactly what God says.

Every bit of what he's supposed to do, he's got to do it to the T.

Because if he doesn't, he dies.

And if he doesn't, atonement is not made.

One of the things about this is that we see that much of the atonement being made is being made for

the sanctuary.

It's being made for the tabernacle, for the late of the temple, that the

dwelling place of God among men has been defiled throughout the year.

And yes, there's sacrifices continually being made day in and day out, and yet it's as if,

one commentator I read, you see that this, that God is forgiving.

He's a forgiving God.

He's a merciful God.

He's forgiving sins.

But yet he's a just God.

So how can he be both just and a justifier?

And that's what we're seeing here with the Day of Atonement is this picture of God being both just

and justifier.

And we see him, the high priest is,

he's, when he goes, one of the things, the highlight of this whole event is when he gets to go

into the Holy of Holies.

And he's supposed to go, this is where the very presence of God is, resting above

the mercy seat.

He's burning incense so that he can't see, so that he's hidden, and it's

already a dark room.

And so, you know, you get all of this, you know, I hate to say, but this pageantry

that the high priest is supposed to execute.

And then, you know, then it comes for the two goats, where they cast lots

for the two goats.

And the purpose of casting the lots is for God to determine which goat is his

and which is the one that's the scapegoat.

And the lots get cast, the goats are determined, you know, by, you know, God's

hand here through the casting of lots.

And both goats have the sins of Israel, you know, the sins of God's people

confessed, you know, by the high priest, you know, has his hands on the heads of these goats

and confesses over these goats the

sins of God's people.

And in doing so, imputes them to these goats.

One is then, one then is sacrificed, one is slaughtered, and

that goat's blood is then taken and sprinkled on the mercy seat.

The other goat is then taken by, I think King James will say, by a fit man, or the

newer translations will say, you know, one who's been appointed for this, to this effect.

That, you know, the fit man then takes the scapegoat, or, you know, the one for

Azazel or whatever, takes the scapegoat, takes him out into the wilderness.

And he's not just to take him out into the wilderness a little way, that the way that it's understood is that he is to take this

goat way out yonder to where it will never return.

And then we see once all this is finished, the high priest bathes himself again,

and then he puts back on his regular clothing.

And in the midst of this, on this day, the people of God are supposed to,

they're supposed to lament, they're supposed to mourn, they're supposed to fast.

There's supposed to be repentance.

All of this taking place.

And then when the high priest comes out, then we know,

then we know, you know, that we then know that the,

that we then know the atonement has been made.

And so, whereas, you know, we look at, and this is happening,

and this is prescribed, this is commanded by God to happen year in, year out.

Every year on the 10th day of the 7th month.

Okay.

But what we then, the fact is, and this is actually the argument that the writer of Hebrews makes, it goes, if

it could take away sins, the first time it was done would have been enough.

So the fact that it was being done every single year was a

perpetual reminder, and in this case, for millennia.

Guess what?

This can't take away your sins.

There is someone, there is someone or something that will come to take away sins,

but it's not this work.

But yet you're supposed to do this because it points to someone greater.

And that's then when we see our Lord Jesus is, in all of this,

every bit, you know, every jot and tittle of this is fulfilled in Jesus Christ.

We see where if the high priest had this royal garment, you know, this royal

vestment on, and he humbles himself by putting on this

humble linen, and then after he's finished the atonement, he puts back on the

royal garb, what is Ephesians, I'm sorry, Philippians 2

teaches us that the Lord Jesus humbled himself

by taking on the form of a bondservant, by taking on the form of a slave, that he, I mean, what's more

humbling than God of very God becoming man?

That this, just in the changing of the garments of the high priest is

teaching us of the coming incarnation of the Lord Jesus Christ.

Amen, we have to go to a quick final break, and if anybody wants

to join us, chrisarnson at gmail .com, chrisarnson at gmail .com, don't go away, we'll be right

back after these messages.

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Well, in about six minutes, Greg, please summarize what you most want etched in the hearts and minds

of our listeners today about the Day of Atonement from Old Covenant Shadow to New Covenant Substance.

Yes.

So, you know, the most that I would want is this, is to know that

an atonement has been made.

An atonement has come that we can be made

right with God.

That we have sinned against Him.

That we have rebelled against His righteous rule in everything.

That we have done everything wrong.

And everything we touch is stained by sin.

Everything we touch is not just made ceremonially unclean, but it's made

unclean.

That we are an unclean thing.

That all our righteous deeds are like an unclean thing.

But yet, it doesn't have to be that way.

We don't have to worry about, you know,

did I make the sacrifice appropriately?

Did I have, am I going about the right ritual?

Rather, what we have is we have the One who stepped down from Heaven.

Who took upon Himself human flesh.

Who took upon Himself a human nature.

Who became, even as we are, yet without sin.

And did everything right.

There was, yeah, that He didn't, unlike Aaron who had to bathe himself to make himself clean, Jesus

was always clean.

And just like, you know, the goat that was sacrificed and His blood

was placed upon the mercy seat, we see that Jesus Christ Himself not only

is the sacrifice, He is the mercy seat.

That He is the One by which, that if we, you know, rend our hearts, and not merely our

garments, that if we rend our hearts before Him, and we come to Him and we

confess our sin, and believe that He

was crucified, dead, buried, raised again, is seated at the right hand of

the Father, and is returning, that our atonement

has been made.

That Jesus Christ is our atonement.

That He is the One that makes us right with God, who makes us clean, who, you know, our sins

are imputed to Him, and they are taken as far as the east is from the west.

And that we are then given the righteousness that He justly earned by His righteous life,

accounted to us and imputed to us, and this is all by faith alone.

You know, by grace alone through faith alone.

And, you know, let us not, when we're reading Leviticus, and we're getting tied up going, oh man, this is something I just

simply do not understand.

Look to those sacrifices and see how they point you to Jesus and what He has done.

And when you get to the chapter of Leviticus 16, give glory to God that every

bit of this was fulfilled in Jesus Christ alone.

Hallelujah.

And I was just reminded of years ago hearing a friend of mine

who was a Jewish believer in Christ, and he was preaching on how

Jesus Christ fulfilled the sacrificial system and

that His shed blood is the only hope for anyone's salvation.

And he was talking about how the Jew, who no longer has a temple,

has to make up stuff that is not even in the Hebrew Scriptures in order to have

peace of mind that their sins have been atoned for.

So they have to spiritualize things and say they offer up prayers and so forth.

And this Jewish believer, Marty Fromm, who's now in heaven, he said, can you

imagine being the firstborn in the house of a Jewish family

when the angel of death was going to hover over the

people of Israel and your father is saying

that, oh, we don't need to slaughter any animal.

We don't have to paint the posts of the doorway with blood.

That's just a figure of speech.

It's an analogy.

And we just have to really pray very hard tonight and that will take care of everything.

And Marty says in the voice of a young Jewish boy,

Papa, can I stay at Uncle Laban's house tonight?

Yeah, I'd be stable with my uncle at that point.

Right.

But folks, don't forget about the conference where our guest is speaking, From Shadows to Substance.

That's February 16th through the 18th at Covenant Reformed Baptist Church in

Tullahoma, Tennessee.

And you can find out more details on Jeffrey Rice's Facebook page.

And you could also go to Eventbrite and find out more about this From

Shadows to Substance conference, Tullahoma, Tennessee.

I want to thank you so much, brother, for being my guest today.

I look forward to your return to the program.

I look forward to meeting you, God willing, sometime in the future.

And I really enjoyed myself today.

I want to thank everybody who listened today.

And I want all of you to always remember for the rest of your lives that Jesus Christ is a far greater Savior

than you are a sinner.