February 7, 2023 Show with Greg Moering on “The Day of Atonement: From Old Covenant Shadow to New Covenant Substance”

Live from historic downtown Carlisle, Pennsylvania, home of founding father

James Wilson, 19th century hymn writer George Duffield, 19th century gospel minister

George Norcross, and sports legend Jim Thorpe, it's Iron Sharpens Iron.

This is a radio platform in which pastors, Christian scholars, and theologians address the burning issues facing the church and the world today.

Proverbs chapter 27 verse 17 tells us, Iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another.

Matthew Henry said that in this passage, we are cautioned to take heed with whom we converse and directed to have in view in conversation to make one another wiser and better.

It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next two hours, and we hope to hear from you, the listener, with your own questions.

And now here's your host, Chris Arnson. Good afternoon,

Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida, and the rest of humanity living on the planet

Earth who are listening via live streaming at ironsharpensironradio .com.

This is Chris Arnson, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Tuesday on this seventh day of February 2023.

Before I introduce my guest today, I just want to remind you of some exciting news that some of you may not have heard.

I mentioned it a few days ago, and I'm going to start now, hopefully, remembering to remind you every day that the next

Iron Sharpens Iron Radio Free Pastors Luncheon is going to be held

Thursday, April 13th, 11 a .m. to 2 p .m. at Church of the

Living Christ in Loisville, Pennsylvania, which is Perry County, Pennsylvania. And for the very first time,

I have two speakers at the luncheon rather than one, and I also have two speakers that are my speakers for the very first time.

Neither one of these men have spoken at my luncheons before, but I have known both of these men for decades.

I've known the first speaker that I'm going to mention, Dr. William Webster, probably since the late 1980s.

He is an author who has written for the Banner of Truth and other publishers, and he has primarily written on the subject of Roman Catholicism.

He also has written on the heresy of easy believism and cheap grace amongst modern evangelicals.

So he gets both ends of the spectrum there with his writing career.

He is going to be joined by his friend and co -author, David T.

King, who is a Presbyterian minister in Katy, Texas.

And both Bill Webster and David King co -authored a massive, groundbreaking, three -volume, 900 -page work titled

Holy Scripture, the Ground and Pillar of Our Faith, which is primarily providing the patristic evidence that the church fathers believed in sola scriptura long before the

Protestant Reformation. They are both speaking at my pastor's luncheon. As I said, it's free.

You get fed for free, and you hear these two brilliant men speak for free.

And on top of everything, everybody who attends is leaving with a heavy sack of free, brand -new books donated by publishers across the

United States and the United Kingdom. Many publishers have been doing this for me ever since I started these luncheons back in the 1990s.

They are the brainchild of my precious late wife, Julie, who was the one to come up with the idea that I do this annually at first.

Now I do it biannually. And so I am just so excited about this for so many reasons, especially since I get to see my old friends

Bill Webster and David King again, and I have not seen them in probably 15 years.

So I am really excited about this. And then, on top of that, for the three days following that event, which is being held at the

Church of the Living Christ in Loisville, as I mentioned, there will be a

Bible conference I am hosting and arranging, which will be held in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania, at the

Grace Bible Fellowship Church in Harrisburg, a three -day conference featuring

William Webster and David King on the theme, The Gospel, Removed by Rome, Rescued by the

Reformers, and Rejected by Modern Evangelicals. That's going to be Friday night at 7 p .m.,

Saturday all day from 11 a .m. to 6 p .m., and Sunday at the 10 .30

a .m. worship service and the 6 p .m. worship service at Grace Bible Fellowship Church in Harrisburg.

Again, this is also a free event, absolutely free of charge. If you want more details on how you can register for free for either of those events, and let me remind you also, the pastor's luncheon is only for men in ministry leadership, and the

Bible conference is open to everybody, for men, women, and children. So send me an email, and I will let you know about both of those.

We just had the artwork done for the flyers by my dear friend

Angel Contreras, who, if you have not seen his artwork, he is a master at not only artwork in general, but in caricature art.

And I was introduced to him by Dr. James R. White of Alpha Omega Ministries, and he has been doing so many extraordinary things for Iron Trumpets, Iron Radio at no cost to us.

So it's just such an amazing gift to have that. But send me an email to chrisarnson at gmail .com

and put luncheon and conference in the subject line, and I will send you more details.

Well, as I mentioned, we have a guest today who is actually a first -time guest. His name is

Greg Mooring, and he has served as a senior pastor and a conference speaker, and he's going to be addressing today the

Day of Atonement from Old Covenant Shadow to New Covenant Substance.

And we're also going to be talking about a conference where he is speaking, featuring Dr. James R. White and other speakers in Tullahoma, Tennessee, coming up very, very soon.

But it's my honor and privilege to welcome you for the very first time to Iron Trumpets, Iron Radio, Greg Mooring. Hello there,

Mr. Aronson. I appreciate you having me on. It certainly came as a shock, to say the least, when you messaged me and asked me to come on.

I'm kind of hiding myself off a little bit, so I'm not big into tweeting.

I don't really do YouTube. I'm much happier to hang out at my local church and be satisfied with whatever

God is doing there. So it's a great pleasure to be here, and a humbling one, to say the least.

Well, tell us about this Bible conference where you are speaking. I know that it is being conducted or arranged and hosted by our mutual friend

Jeffrey Rice, who is not only the founder of Post -Tenebrous

Lux Bible Rebinding, who just shipped me, last week, my first Jeffrey Rice Bible Rebind.

And it is mind -blowing how gorgeous this Bible is. And the golden, honey -brown distressed leather that I chose for this

Bible is even more beautiful in my hand than when I saw it in photographs.

So I am just so thrilled with Jeffrey Rice's work. He is indeed a master at that.

And let me plug his website, even though you'll be hearing it throughout the show in his commercials.

But it's ptlbiblerebinding .com, ptlbiblerebinding .com.

But he is also the pastor of Covenant Reformed Baptist Church in Tullahoma, Tennessee.

The conference that he is conducting at his church is titled

From Shadows to Substance. Some of you may have heard my interview not long ago with Jeffrey when we said the topic was going to be on the book of Ephesians, learning from the book of Ephesians or something like that.

But they changed the topic, and now it's From Shadows to Substance. And the speakers include my dear friend

Dr. James R. White of Alpha Omega Ministries, another dear friend Andrew Rappaport of Striving for Eternity, Haps Addison, who was just on my program recently discussing his testimony of being delivered from the skinhead neo -Nazi racist movement into the joy of Christ.

We also have on this lineup Claude Ramsey, who is one of the most powerful preachers

I've ever heard, and that's no exaggeration. I had the privilege of hearing Claude preach at his fine church there in Knoxville, Tennessee, Reformata Baptist Church, and I believe that we are going to be lifelong friends.

It's hard not to want to be a friend of Claude Ramsey, such a warm and loving and humble brother.

Braden Patterson is on the lineup, Kevin Hay, Michael Schultz, and John Crawford.

Those last three brethren I have not yet interviewed, but I'm looking forward to hopefully getting them on the program in the near future.

But tell us about your specific role there at the conference, what you intend to speak on, and so forth.

Yeah, so yeah, I would say just coming here on the program, being involved with the conference comes as a humbling thing, a shocking thing.

I really do view myself as the least of all preachers that are going to be there.

My focus in the conference is, originally I was supposed to do the introduction to the book of Ephesians when the topic of the conference was on Ephesians, and I was more than happy to do that and get a breakdown of the book and all that it was going to do.

And then with the change being made from shadows to substance, when

Jeff asked me what I'd like to preach on, I was like, Leviticus 16, the

Day of Atonement. It is a chapter that the more

I delve into, the more that I deal with, the more my mind is blown by how the gospel is being preached through these signs, how the

Lord was year in and year out proclaiming what

Christ would do, and how each and every year it had to become more and more evident, at least to those believers in the

Old Covenant, that this isn't working, this isn't going to do it.

There is someone that this is pointing to. Who is it going to be? And then to see how our

Lord Jesus, just how it all is pointing to him, it's good.

It is meat for the soul, to say the least.

So I'm grateful for the opportunity that I have to be with Jeff, to get to meet him for the first time.

I've known of Jeff via the interwebs and through social media, and primarily because of Dr.

White's ministry. He speaks of him, and then the connection they end up making with Jeff.

It's like, wow, how did I get connected with Jeff Rice from afar?

So that is, in a nutshell, what my role will be there.

I'll be the opening preacher, so I'm setting the tone. Hopefully I'll be able to set the tone in such a place where I'll be completely forgotten, and the

Word of God will be lifted up, the name of Christ will be exalted, and it won't matter who's preaching.

It'll just be, give us the Word, show us Jesus, brothers.

Amen. And this conference is going to be held right around the corner,

February 16th through the 18th in Tullahoma, Tennessee. If you want more details on how to register and attend, you can go to the

Facebook page of Jeffrey Rice, and he spells his name J -E -F -F -E -R -Y,

Rice. And you can also go to Eventbrite, and look for the

From Shadows to Substance conference in Tullahoma, Tennessee. And you can also go to the website of the aforementioned

Jeffrey Rice, the website of Covenant Reform Baptist Church in Tullahoma, Tennessee.

And I am going to get that website for you momentarily. I had it on my screen moments ago, and I must have somehow accidentally deleted it, but you can be sure that I will get that for you momentarily.

Let me give you our email address so that our listeners can send in questions when we get the ball rolling as far as the theme is concerned of today, which once again is the

Day of Atonement, From Old Covenant Shadow to New Covenant Substance. ChrisArnson at gmail .com.

ChrisArnson at gmail .com. Give us your first name at least, your city and state, and your country of residence.

And by the way, I just found it, the website for Covenant Reform Baptist Church of Tullahoma, Tennessee, where our friend

Jeffrey Rice is the pastor. CovenantRBCTN .com.

CovenantRBC for Reform Baptist Church. TN for Tennessee .com. And God willing, we will be announcing that later.

But before we enter into the theme on the Day of Atonement, since you are a first -time guest, we have a tradition here on Iron Trump and Zion Radio where whenever we have a first -time guest, that guest provides a summary of their salvation testimony, and that would include the kind of religious atmosphere, if any, in which they were raised, the kinds of providential circumstances that the

Lord raised up in their lives that drew them to himself and saved them. And I'd love to hear your story.

Yeah. So, you know, I've been a believer now since 2002.

I was 15 going on 16. So it was the summer of going into my junior year in high school in 2002.

I had finished up my sophomore year. My sophomore year was my first year of playing football, and it was that summer that the

Lord rescued me and the Lord saved me. What kind of led to all of that, to that moment of June 10, 2002, was

I had—I can kind of back it up several years. When you have 20 years to look at in hindsight, you really start seeing where the

Lord had begun to move you to where you would come to faith.

I had—I want to say through middle school, I want to say into my eighth -grade year, I had been asked what

I wanted for Christmas that year because we weren't raised in a Christian home. I mean, I really was kind of the first Christian in my household.

And I'd say growing up in the 90s, kind of the typical American Southern household where your parents professed to be

Christians. You celebrated Christmas. You celebrated Easter. I had a general—you know, your

God existed. I believe that I had the idea in my mind that Jesus was the

Son of God. There was no question about that. But we never went to church. I think the only time

I ever stepped foot in a church growing up that I can ever recall is for somebody's wedding.

So that was the only time I ever went to church. I don't ever recall otherwise.

And so it was—so for Christmas, my eighth -grade year, I had been asked what I wanted for Christmas, and I wanted a

Bible, which was unusual. I didn't own one at the time for myself. I had been reading my dad's.

It was just like, okay, I'd like to have my own. And so they asked me what kind. I'm like, well, obviously the original one, which in my mind was apparently the

King James, because I didn't know any different, right? I've met a lot of pastors who agree with that.

Well, you're right. So I didn't know any different. It was just because it's what my dad had.

And so I was just like, you know, I want the same thing. And it was a Thompson Chain Reference Bible, and I would sit there and read it. I just read it because it was interesting because it was the

Bible. It was no question in my mind that this was the book from God. This was God's book. I mean, what else was it?

But I didn't believe. I didn't have saving faith, and really my house didn't have saving faith.

We didn't. I mean, there was nothing. I was of the persuasion, you know, when my mom or dad would talk about us wanting to go to church, you know, to get us into a good church when we finally had a place to live that was stable and settled down.

I was like, I don't want to go to church. I'll have to wear a suit, which is funny because today I wear a suit.

So, you know, I was so opposed to that. So I guess you're not a Calvary Chapel minister.

No, no, no, not at all. Not at all. And actually, in the 21st century, there's a lot of Reformed Baptist pastors that don't wear them either.

Right. You know, I wear it. You know, it's a personal thing, but, you know, I'm not a –

I don't look down on anybody that does otherwise. So it's great because – you know, it's great.

I actually find that at least a sport coat is great for carrying a handgun because it's easy to conceal and to protect the flock that way.

But, you know, as I said, I grew up not in a Christian home.

I wanted this Bible for Christmas for my eighth grade year, and I would read this thing off and on. And, you know, that was just kind of it.

And that was that way for like two or three years. Well, going into my freshman year of high school, a buddy of mine wanted to play football.

And, you know, my dad played football. My uncle played football. So I'm thinking, oh, it's a natural thing.

Like, I'll play football, which was odd because I was a couch potato up until that point.

And we had – my buddy wanted to play, and I thought about doing it, and then

I was like, nah, I'm not going to do it. He did. He skipped that. He did his freshman year, never played again.

Well, it kind of sat on me throughout the rest of the year. Like, man, I wish I had done that. And so I joined.

You know, I signed up for – at the end of my freshman year to go into my sophomore year. So that was that.

So going into the summer, so this would be the summer of 2001, which would be my freshman to sophomore years in high school, that summer,

I had – I went through all the workouts, which was excruciating for me because I was a couch potato.

Like, what am I doing lifting weights and doing all this stuff? So I finished that up. I get into the very first day of practice where we were actually running drills, doing all the stuff that we had to do to play football.

I got yelled at because I hadn't buckled my chin strap on my helmet.

And I was – I'm getting yelled at. I'm like, who's this guy thinking? He's yelling at me.

Of course, he's my coach. It's what they do. But, you know, I had –

I was sent to run a lap because I hadn't buckled my chin strap, which, in hindsight,

I rightly deserve to get all of this. But I come back. This is the very first day of practice.

I take my helmet off, and I throw it down. I go, have your helmet. I'm out. And I call my mom, and she had to come pick me up.

But the very first guy that – the very first coach that came and talked to me because I was on the line, both offensive and defensive, and the very first guy that came and talked to me was a youth pastor of a church that I have passed by every single day but never noticed, ever.

It was just there. It was just part of the scenery. And, you know, he talked with me to try to convince me to stick around, you know, don't quit, all of that, and invited me to his youth group.

So this is the summer of 2001. I mentioned that, again, it was

June of 2002 that I came to faith. Well, this night of quitting,

I ended up having probably, I don't know, a five-, six -hour conversation with my dad, which

I'm thankful for. I'm so grateful for my dad having this discussion with me because I went back the next day, and then

I played football for the next three years for my high school. And that was it.

There was nothing else really related to church, nothing related to any – you know, to Christ other than, you know, there'd be – because I was in North Carolina at the time, and we would say the

Lord's Prayer before a game. Other than the fact that we were in North Carolina and it was a thing,

I don't understand why, but we did. And that was it. Well, Easter of 2002, so this sophomore year of high school, the

Easter of 2002, my parents – we finally went to church for the first time in my life.

And we left that church, this church that we went to, and we're like, yeah,

I don't think we're going to go back to that one. And so I was like, hey, why don't we go to Coach's church?

This is the coach who had invited me to the youth group months earlier.

And so we went the following week. And from that point on, it was kind of – that was from that point that we got really plugged in because there were people that I knew there.

My coach, who was the youth pastor, was there, all of that.

And so, you know, you're talking about March or April, whenever Easter was in 2002, from that point on, started going – attending.

Well, so three months, four months, whatever, two, three months, whatever it was, been attending.

And then the youth retreat came up and wanted to go and did go.

And it ended up being June – it was, let's say, it was June 10, 2002.

It was a Monday night. And I remember this because we ran a pretty tight schedule. Sunday was the first day of this event.

And it was that night when really for the first time

I understood – you know, my eyes were opened to the reality of the weight of my sin and how wicked

I really was and how doomed I was. It was at that moment kind of became – where it felt like a gorilla on my back.

And, you know, as I've seen it later out of, like, Pilgrim's Progress, when Christian – at least in –

I haven't fully read the book. I could be, you know, beat up later for not reading

Pilgrim's Progress completely. But I've watched at least the animated film with my kids.

And the moment when Christian, you know, he's feeling that weight of the burden that then is released.

I understand that because it was that night the burden of my sin was so great that I had to go,

Lord, save me. I have sinned against you.

I deserve – I deserve hell. I deserve everything you say that I deserve.

I deserve it. I admit it. And I have sinned against you.

But if you – you know, if you're as merciful as you say that you are, I'm throwing everything, you know, at your feet.

You know, I bow to you as my Savior and my Lord. You own me.

I don't want anything to do with myself anymore. I want you. And, you know, that night when – as my theology especially began to deepen and better understood that it was the night that the

Spirit of God woke me from the dead. He brought me back from the dead and gave me eyes to see.

He gave me ears to hear. He gave me a heart to receive his word.

And then gave me the faith that I needed to believe. And it was kind of from that moment, you know, the next morning –

I mean, I remember like the day before, I remember Monday reading my Bible.

And then the next day, Tuesday morning, waking up going, whoa, something – you know, this is a different day.

And then when I opened my Bible and going, I'm reading this book a whole lot different. My eyes are different now to see this.

That this isn't just God's book. This is my Father's book.

This is my Lord's book. And I'm so glad to be able to read it with those eyes.

So that's, you know, bringing up, you know, to that about a month later.

In fact, if you could pick up right where you left off when we return from our first commercial break. Absolutely.

Just remember it's a month later after your miraculous conversion by the

Holy Spirit and the grace and mercy of God. And we'll pick up right there where you left off.

If anybody has any questions, send them to chrisarnson at gmail .com. C -H -R -I -S -A -R -N -Z -E -N at gmail .com.

Give us your first name at least, your city and state, and your country of residence if you live outside the USA. Only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal or private matter.

We'll be right back after these messages. Do not go away. Yeah, again and again.

James White of Alpha Omega Ministries here. I'm very excited to announce that my longtime friend Chris Arnson of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio and I are heading down to Atlanta, Georgia again for the

G3 National Conference. That's Thursday, September 21st through Saturday the 23rd.

On a theme that I've been preaching, teaching, writing about, and defending in live public debates for most of my life, the sovereignty of God.

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Call 717 -258 -4688 today. Hello, my name is

Anthony Uvino, and I'm one of the pastors at Hope Reform Baptist Church in Quorum, New York, and also the host of the reformrookie .com

website. I want you to know that if you enjoy listening to the Iron Sharpens Iron Radio show like I do, you can now find it on the

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London Baptist Confession of Faith, please join us at Hope Reformed Baptist Church in Corham, New York.

Again, I'm Pastor Anthony Evino, and thanks for listening. Welcome back. If you just tuned us in, our guest today is

Greg Mooring, who has served as a senior pastor and a conference speaker. We are discussing the

Day of Atonement from Old Covenant Shadow to New Covenant Substance. We're also promoting the upcoming conference from Shadows to Substance.

And if you have any questions for Greg, send them to chrisarnsen at gmail .com.

Give us your first name at least, city and state, and country of residence. We already have several questions that have come in, but before I go to them,

I want you to continue where you left off on your salvation testimony, and the last thing you said was, a month later, and that was in reference to a month after you were regenerated by the

Holy Spirit, born again. If you could pick up where you left off. Absolutely, I appreciate that. I guess, what providential timing, you know, a month later, dot, dot, dot.

You know, good cliffhanger, I hope. So about a month later is when I was baptized by immersion, you know, as a believer.

And, you know, at that point, I thought, you know, hey, all this gravy. You know, I'm like, man, this is awesome. And what's funny is because I'm now kind of the raging

Calvinist in my family, shall we say. And, you know, that was about three months later that I, after being saved, that I went back to school, junior year in high school, and had my first encounter with Jonathan Edwards, Sinners in the

Hands of an Angry God. So that was a bit much for me as a three -month -old believer to take in.

Since then, I, of course, am grateful to the Lord for that. But, you know, without getting into all the details there, you know, what this first year kind of entailed, so June 10, 2002 rolls around.

It's going into my junior year. And I'm thinking, man, wow, this is great.

Well, within a year, I saw my family dissolve.

My mom and dad eventually separated and then divorced. They, you know,

I've got, I mean, all sorts of stuff, you know, kind of fallen in around. And I'm like, what in the world is happening here?

And I look back in hindsight and have said for 20 years that I am glad that the

Lord had mercy on me when he did. Because I don't know what would have happened, where I would have gone, if it had not been for the fact that he had saved me when he did.

Because it was then relying on his promises where he says, you know,

I will never leave you nor forsake you. Or when I read in the Psalms when, you know,

David says, you know, when my mother or father forsake me, the Lord will take me up. That was,

I was like, man, that's in the Bible? I'm so glad God gave us these promises. And so eventually, you know,

I see where eventually the Lord would then call me to ministry.

In my senior year, I began to pursue that for quite some time.

I've had opportunities since then to preach, to pastor.

I've got this, you know, this participation in this conference. I've preached at another conference.

I've done pulpit supply at several churches in different states. And, you know, in all of this, you know,

I've been able to see, you know, met my wife.

We've got five children together. We've been married 12 years.

So the vast majority of my time as a Christian has been married with my bride.

We've seen another point. Another point is I look in this walk with the

Lord and, you know, trusting him day in, day out is 2018.

Our fourth child, Annalise, was born. And at that moment, when she was born that day, without getting into too much detail there, what

I'll say is that after she was born, she stopped breathing. Like immediately, almost immediately, within 10 minutes.

And that happened six times. And I watched six times her have to be resuscitated.

And then us fly, because we were living in southern Idaho at the time. We were in Twin Falls, Idaho. Had to be flown from Twin Falls with her to Boise, which is about 120 -mile drive, in order for her to be at the

NICU there in Boise, where for three days they would cool her down in hopes of, one, hoping that she'll live, two, that it would be able to handle any damage that may have come because of these issues she was having.

And in those three days, which were leading up to my birthday, because she was born two days before my birthday, I'm sitting here going,

Lord, I believe in your sovereignty. And you tell me that you work out all things together for good for those who love you and are called according to your purpose in Christ Jesus.

Lord, I know that you love this little girl more than I ever will. I don't know what you're doing, but I trust you.

I have no idea, Lord, but I trust you.

And she's now four years old. Praise God. Praise God.

And we have things where we wonder what happened, because she's four and we've got three others besides her and one younger than her.

But I got to see through this, the

Lord used this little girl and what was going on. The church that we were members at at the time,

Eastside Baptist Church in Twin Falls, Idaho, I got to see that Christ worked through his people in that church to minister to my family, and then also to see that this situation would then minister to those in the congregation, where a dear friend of mine that's there would call me and go,

Greg, I don't understand what you're going through, but I will tell you, seeing you, your faith through this, is encouraging me in the midst of this.

So, yeah, I don't want to talk about myself too much, but I can look back, like wrapping this up,

I can look back at key moments and see the providential hand of God doing exactly what he said he would do, which is work out all things together for good, to see him faithful in too many times to count.

And so, yeah, that's a story in a nutshell that, you know,

I would like to one day maybe sit down, you know, for posterity's sake, for my children, grandchildren, great -grandchildren, write out this, and not only what do

I want to actually read, I want to record myself reading the whole Bible for my children, grandchildren, and great -grandchildren, but also record, you know, make some record of, you know, the

Lord's dealings in my life so that they can look back at that and see, you know, give him glory for a really big deal that happened in June 10, 2002.

So. Praise God. Yeah. Well, when we come back from our midway break,

I just want to spend a little more time on your conversion because I want to speak about how you discovered and embraced the doctrines of sovereign grace.

Yes. And then we'll go into our major theme of the Day of the Atonement. And I just want to remind our listeners that since this is our midway break, it is a longer break than the other breaks in the show because Grace Life Radio, 90 .1

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Going back to 2005, one of my very favorite guests on Iron Sharpens Iron is

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That's also the email address where you can send in a question to Greg Mooring, our guest today, on the

Day of Atonement, or perhaps you have a question about something he said in his own personal salvation testimony.

That's chrisarnson at gmail .com. Give us your first name at least, city and state and country of residence. And again, if we could pick up in your testimony where you came to discover the doctrines of sovereign grace and embrace them.

I know that you already mentioned that you had an encounter with sinners in the hands of an angry God. The sermon by Jonathan Edwards that has been in print ever since he gave that sermon and how the

Lord used that in Great Revival. But tell us more specifically when the doctrines of sovereign grace were introduced to you where you clearly saw what these doctrines were teaching and how you came to embrace them.

Yeah, I appreciate that. So what's funny about the sinners in the hands of an angry God, it was in my high school textbook.

It was American literature and it happened to be in there and that's how I ended up encountering that.

But for myself, when coming to the doctrines of sovereign grace,

I would say it was probably two or three years into my conversion.

So it was 2006, 2005, somewhere in there, so pretty early on.

And it didn't really come because of, I mean, that early on,

YouTube wasn't even a thing. It really came from my own study of the scriptures, is all that I can say.

I didn't go, the church that I was a part of and a church that I still dearly love, people I still dearly love,

Calvinism in South, I didn't even know what Calvinism was. I'd never even heard of it.

And it really came from my own reading of Exodus and Romans.

And I would read Exodus and I would see where God, I mean, it's pretty clear in the text that Pharaoh would harden his heart, but then

God would harden Pharaoh's heart and then judge Pharaoh for having a hard heart.

And I just, it was like, huh, this doesn't make any sense. And I would venture,

I'd read Romans in particular, Romans nine. And I see

Romans nine having the very discussion that I'm having in my own head, in heart, over what

God was doing with Pharaoh. And I've gone back and forth, back and forth with this until eventually

I come to realize I'm actually asking the question of why then does

God find fault? And when I realized I'm asking that very question, and God is already anticipating my question and responding to me with who are you, old man, to answer back to God?

I go, oh, who am I to answer back to God? God is

God, I am not. And I just kind of ended up having this innate acceptance of the sovereignty of God over everything.

I don't know how that fully plays out. I don't know the fullness of what that means. But what I do know is, okay, that my salvation was not because of me.

I didn't do anything to earn this. God did not, it wasn't a matter of God looking down the corridors of time and seeing that I would believe.

It was God coming to me and telling me, hey, wake up.

Believe. And giving me the faith to believe. Because I could just look back to when

I was saved in June 10, 2002, and go, that wasn't me.

It wasn't something that I generated. It was definitely me believing. I definitely believed.

But there was something outside of me that had brought me to this conclusion. So it was pretty early on, and it wasn't until actually,

I don't know, later, I kind of sat as this, I would say, in my church,

I held this belief, and it wasn't until later that I found out that I had a name, this thing called

Calvinism. I'm like, oh, and I hear what this is and what people are saying about how many people hate it.

And I'm reading it, and I go, but that's what the Bible teaches, is this thing. I'm like, oh, it has a name, so I'm not completely crazy that I'm reading the

Bible this way, and this is what I believe it to say. And so it was,

I would say, probably somewhere around 2006, 2007, 2008, somewhere in that, so pretty early in my faith.

So I wasn't in a spot where, I don't think I ever went through a cage stage, because I had nothing to be angry about, because I was so new in the faith that anything and everything,

I was just devouring. And I had a church that I loved, even though I would come to find out in some places, especially with my belief in the doctrines of grace, that I would differ from many in the church, but these are people

I loved. And so it's like, okay, we differ, but we love Jesus. So that's kind of how it came, and then as time went on, this continued study of the

Bible and some other doctrinal works, not only embracing

Calvinism, like a full -throated Calvinism, but really coming to, as far as I understand it,

Reformed Baptist covenant theology and the whole play around that, and how that all works together.

And so that's where I'm at today, and I'm grateful.

I'll say this. I know we mentioned about good churches. I'm grateful for the church that we're at, which is

First Baptist Church of Cullman in Cullman, Florida, and we hold the 1689 at our church.

I've got to give a shout -out to the churches in Idaho that Eastside Baptist Church in Twin Falls, a good, faithful church, faithful, sovereign grace -preaching preachers, and also

Valley Baptist Church, where I know you mentioned Brayden Patterson, who will be at the conference. That's a church that I once pastored, and my buddy

Brayden is now the pastor there. So if anybody's in the listening area of any one of those three churches, certainly those are some good churches to be a part of that preach sovereign grace, and you'll get

Bible when you go. So hopefully that answers about coming to the doctrines of grace.

Hey, man. I had my mic turned around. We have a couple of listener questions here.

I don't know if this is intended to be a joke. I have a feeling it is, but we have a first -time questioner,

Travis, in Cullman, Florida. That's got to be my pastor.

Oh, it's your pastor? Yeah, yeah. He says, How does it feel to know that you're the only premillennialist speaking at the conference?

What are the chances that you'll change your position after spending a couple of days with James White?

Hashtag dat post mill. Well, actually, he's wrong, though.

Andrew Rappaport is not only premillennial. He's dispensationalist, and he's speaking on the roster.

He is a Calvinist dispensationalist and describes himself as being soteriologically reformed, even though he's a dispensationalist, but that's at least one other person.

But I know that you're not dispensationalist, though. Yeah, I'm not a dispy, and I don't say that in a derogatory way.

But, yeah. And actually, just now recently with Brandon Scaff stepping out with Michael Schultz now filling in.

Michael Schultz is also a premillennialist, and we've had some jokes on Facebook about that.

And I've talked with Braden as well. I'm like, man, I'm so glad Michael came on, because I wasn't aware with Andrew Rappaport, his eschatological leanings.

And I was like, man, I feel like I'm the lone man out. I'm probably the only premillennialist there, but now with Michael Schultz there, whoo,

I'm not the lone man anymore. So, yeah. I am a historic, as far as I can understand, a historic premillennial in my eschatological views.

I just, for me, as I've read the Bible cover to cover and cover to cover year in and year out for the majority of my

Christian, being a Christian, I've come to the conclusion that there is a premillennial return of the

Lord Jesus, which I'm happy to, I love having those discussions with my friends, including my pastor.

And just having that, we agree that Jesus is coming back. We agree that on the overarching things, it's those finer points of eschatology that we differ in.

But, yeah. So, I'm a premill. So, hashtag datpremill. Well, actually, you didn't answer his question, though.

Do you think that you're going to convert to post -millennialism? Or do you think there's any danger of it?

No, not even close. And I didn't mean to offend my post -millennial listeners by saying any danger of it, but in your mind, any danger of it?

No, you know, I don't see, I would love to have those discussions, but I'm pretty solidly premill, because I just find that to be the,

I think that's the storyline of the Bible. The storyline of the

Bible leads to, I think, a premillennial position.

So, no, I don't think, I don't, I'm used to being the lone man on the totem pole when it comes to certain doctrinal issues.

You know, I'm like the lone Reformed Baptist in a family that's, at least on one side of my family, more

Pentecostal. So, and I've often been the lone Calvinist in a sea of Arminians that I love.

So, I guess I'm built to be a, to be an opposition.

Well, by the way, Pastor Travis, since you are a first -time questioner, you have won a free

New American Standard Bible. I hope that you're not King James only, and that you will enjoy this

Bible. We always give our first -time questioners a free

New American Standard Bible, compliments of the publishers of the NASB, and also compliments of Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service, cvbbs .com,

who will ship that Bible out to you. So, please send me your full mailing address.

We have another listener in Moundville, Alabama. His name is

Ted, and he is bringing up a recent interview that I conducted with William Webster, who

I mentioned earlier in this show, is one of my two speakers at the upcoming

Iron Troupe & Zion Radio Free Pastors Luncheon, and also a three -day free

Bible conference, along with his co -author, David T.

King. But Ted in Moundville, Alabama says, in your January 25th interview,

Dr. William Webster described himself as evangelical in the right sense of what the word means.

Presumably, he is distinguishing his sense of the word evangelical from a wrong sense of the word as used in common parlance.

What is the correct sense of the word at which he is hinting by default? I guess he means what you think.

I don't know if you realize, Ted, that we have a different guest on today. Who is using the word in such a manner, and to what end?

Yeah, well, obviously, there are millions of people, even in this country, who would describe themselves as evangelical who are not even regenerate because of the way that the popularity of many false teachers on radio and television and in Christian bookstores that have not only dumbed down the

Bible and the gospel, but have actually replaced it with a false gospel, and it's being swallowed wholesale by millions of people.

But why don't you answer the question? Apparently, Ted was not happy with the way

Dr. Webster answered it. So why don't you answer, what is the incorrect sense of this word evangelical, and who is using the word in such a manner, and to what end?

Okay, let's give this one a shot. I would say that in an incorrect way, something

I've seen, this term of the Big Eva, that you've got people who are nominally

Protestant, that are, okay, we're not Roman Catholic, but are really kind of, often really wishy -washy when it comes to doctrine, when it comes to preaching of the word, when it comes to the worship of God, and this kind of even gets into, when we get into the topic of the

Day of Atonement, we see that they kind of often seem to have more in line with Nadab and Abihu, and offering strange fire with no concern whatsoever for what

God has said. And it just kind of, as long as we're not sinning, you know, disobeying something, then we can, and we're not

Roman Catholics or Greek Orthodox, so we can just call ourselves evangelical. I think it's so often,

I think evangelical often gets just used as that, just a distinction between a, you know, to distinguish us from being

Roman Catholic or Greek Orthodox or Mormon or Jehovah's Witness or, you know, anything around those lines, whereas, you know,

I think properly understood to be truly evangelical is that you're actually about the evangel, that you're actually about the gospel, that you actually are about, you know, the calling of sinners to repentance and calling them to faith alone,

Christ alone, and obedience to our

Lord and His commands. And, you know, we've said that if we love Him, that we'll obey what

He says, we'll obey His commands. And so I think that it's often the,

I guess the wrong sense, as I would take it, just off the question, is probably those who just use it as a catch -all phrase for, you know, the just general, you know, nominal

Christianity that isn't, you know, that's of the Protestant variety of some sort, but that doesn't actually give two hoots about the gospel and, you know, and proclaiming it and calling people to repent and believe.

Thanks for the question, Ted. Now we must move on to our theme, which I don't think

I've ever started the theme of an intended interview this late before. But everything that was said was so fascinating,

I didn't want to cut it short or interrupt you. So tell us about the

Day of Atonement, its biblical roots in Leviticus, and how did this shadow become fulfilled as a substance in the

New Covenant? So, you know, we start off in Leviticus 16.

It actually opens up and says, now, reading from the Legacy Standard Bible, says, now

Yahweh spoke to Moses after the death of the two sons of Aaron when they came near the presence of Yahweh and died.

So we begin, like, the Day of Atonement as a command, you know, the instructions that we get in Leviticus 16 sits like smack dab in the middle of Leviticus.

And, you know, which you would seem to be, hey, this is a pretty important point, you know, that we need to pay attention to.

But it opens up with this heralding back to Leviticus 10 where Nadab and Abihu offer up strange fire.

They offer up this incense that the Lord calls strange fire. It doesn't describe, like, what does it mean necessarily by strange?

Was it green? Was it purple? Was it, you know, what was it? Other than it was, I would say that the strangeness to it is that it was not something

God commanded. And so because God had not commanded it and they just walked in brazenly, frankly, that God struck them dead.

And it was then that Moses tells Aaron, you don't get to weep for your sons.

And it's in the shadow of that that then God gives his command by Moses to Aaron and all of his, you know, all subsequent high priests that, well, basically to say what

I'm about to tell you, you will do it exactly the way I tell you to do it. Because if you don't, you're going to die.

Because this is important. And, you know, what we see with Aaron, you know, without reading the whole of the chapter, what you see is the high priest is given this instruction of changing his clothes, where if you look earlier,

I believe in Exodus, where the high priest's clothing is described as this really ornate, beautiful clothing.

That I've read before. It's kind of royal.

It's royal colors. It's blue, it's purple, it's gold. It's to show a kind of a priest king is how he is.

So you're supposed to look at the high priest and see something that, there's a royal priesthood here being represented by the high priest.

But when he goes in for the Day of Atonement, which was, you know, once a year on the 7th month, on the 10th day of the 7th month, that he was to change his clothes to something that was just plain.

Just plain linen garment. He was to go and wash himself.

He was supposed to take a bath before he goes and does all of this. That there are several offerings that he is to make.

And he's doing this all by himself. And as I was reading Spurgeon's sermon on this, he pointed out that there were also the other sacrifices and things that had to take place every single day that it appears that the high priest is the one making, he's doing all the work, all day long.

You know, on this particular day. And so Aaron is given these instructions to change his clothes, take a bath, you've got this bowl that you're supposed to be offering, you've got the two goats that are involved.

He's going and he's slaughtering the bowl, he's sprinkling blood here, he's sprinkling blood there, and he's supposed to do all of this in accordance with exactly what

God says. Every bit of what he's supposed to do, he's got to do it to the

T. Because if he doesn't, he dies. And if he doesn't, atonement is not made.

One of the things about this is that we see that much of the atonement being made is being made for the sanctuary.

It's being made for the tabernacle, for the way to the temple, that the dwelling place of God among men has been defiled throughout the year.

And yes, there's sacrifices continually being made day in and day out, and yet it's as if, you know, one commentator

I read, you see that this, that God is forgiving. He's a forgiving

God, he's a merciful God, he's forgiving sins, but yet he's a just God.

So how can he be both just and a justifier? And that's what we're seeing here with the

Day of Atonement is this picture of God being both just and justifier.

And we see him, the high priest is, he's, when he goes, one of the things, the highlight of this whole event is when he gets to go into the

Holy of Holies. And he's supposed to go, this is where the very presence of God is, resting above the mercy seat.

He's burning incense so that he can't see, so that he's hidden, and it's already a dark room.

And so, you know, you get all of this, you know, I hate to say, but this pageantry that the high priest is supposed to execute.

And then, you know, then it comes for the two goats where they cast lots for the two goats.

And the purpose of casting the lots is for God to determine which goat is his and which is the one that's the scapegoat.

And the lots get cast, the goats are determined, you know, by, you know, God's hand here through the casting of lots.

And both goats have the sins of Israel, you know, the sins of God's people, confessed, you know, by the high priest, you know, has his hands on the heads of these goats and confesses over these goats the sins of God's people.

And in doing so, imputes them to these goats. One is then, one then is sacrificed, one is slaughtered.

And that goat's blood is then taken and sprinkled on the mercy seat.

The other goat is then taken by, I think King James will say, by a fit man.

The newer translations will say, you know, one who's been appointed for this, to this effect. That, you know, the fit man then takes the scapegoat or, you know, the one for Azazel or whatever, takes the scapegoat, takes him out into the wilderness.

And he's not just to take him out into the wilderness a little way. The way that it's understood is that he's to take this goat way out yonder to where it will never return.

And then we see once all this is finished, the high priest bathes himself again. And then he puts back on his regular clothing.

And in the midst of this, on this day, the people of God are supposed to, they're supposed to lament.

They're supposed to mourn. They're supposed to fast. There's supposed to be repentance. All of this taking place.

And then when the high priest comes out, then we know, then we know, you know, that we then know that the, that we then know the atonement has been made.

And so, you know, we look at, and this is happening, and this is prescribed, this is commanded by God to happen year in, year out.

Every year on the 10th day of the 7th month. Okay. But what we then, the fact is, and this is actually the argument that the writer of Hebrews makes, it goes, if it could take away sins, the first time it was done would have been enough.

So the fact that it was being done every single year was a perpetual reminder, and in this case, for millennia, guess what?

This can't take away your sins. There is someone, there is someone or something that will come to take away sins, but it's not this work.

But yet you're supposed to do this because it points to someone greater.

And that's then when we see our Lord Jesus is, in all of this, every bit, you know, every jot and tittle of this is fulfilled in Jesus Christ.

We see where if the high priest had this royal garment, you know, this royal vestment on, and he humbles himself by putting on this humble linen, and then after he's finished the atonement, he puts back on the royal garb, what is

Ephesians, I'm sorry, Philippians 2 teaches us that the

Lord Jesus humbled himself by taking on the form of a bondservant, by taking on the form of a slave, that he,

I mean, what's more humbling than God of very God becoming man?

That this, just in the changing of the garments of the high priest is teaching us of the coming incarnation of the

Lord Jesus Christ. Amen, we have to go to a quick final break.

Yeah. And if anybody wants to join us, chrisarnson at gmail .com, chrisarnson at gmail .com.

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Well, in about six minutes, Greg, please summarize what you most want etched in the hearts and minds of our listeners today about the

Day of Atonement from Old Covenant Shadow to New Covenant Substance. Yes.

So, you know, the most that I would want is this, is to know that an atonement has been made, an atonement has come, that we can be made right with God, that we have sinned against Him, that we have rebelled against His righteous rule in everything, that we have done everything wrong, and everything we touch is stained by sin.

Everything we touch is not just made ceremonially unclean, but it's made unclean, that we are an unclean thing, that all our righteous deeds are like an unclean thing.

But yet, it doesn't have to be that way. We don't have to worry about, you know, did

I make the sacrifice appropriately? Did I have, am

I going about the right ritual? Rather, what we have is we have the

One who stepped down from Heaven, who took upon Himself human flesh, who took upon Himself a human nature, who became, even as we are, yet without sin, and did everything right.

There was, yeah, that He didn't, unlike Aaron who had to bathe himself to make himself clean,

Jesus was always clean. And just like, you know, the goat that was sacrificed and His blood was placed upon the mercy seat, we see that Jesus Christ Himself not only is the sacrifice,

He is the mercy seat. But He is the One by which if we, you know, rend our hearts, and not merely our garments, and if we rend our hearts before Him, and we come to Him and we confess our sin, and believe that He was crucified, dead, buried, raised again, is seated at the right hand of the

Father, and is returning, that our atonement has been made, that Jesus Christ is our atonement, that He is the

One that makes us right with God, who makes us clean, who, you know, our sins are imputed to Him, and they are taken as far as the east is from the west, and that we are then given the righteousness that He justly earned by His righteous life, accounted to us, and imputed to us, and this is all by faith alone.

You know, it's by grace alone through faith alone. And, you know, let us not, when we're reading

Leviticus, and we're getting tied up going, man, this is something I just simply do not understand, look to those sacrifices and see how they point you to Jesus and what

He has done, and when you get to the chapter Leviticus 16, give glory to God that every bit of this was fulfilled in Jesus Christ alone.

Hallelujah. And I was just reminded of years ago hearing a friend of mine who was a

Jewish believer in Christ, and he was preaching on how

Jesus Christ fulfilled the sacrificial system, and that His shed blood is the only hope for anyone's salvation, and he was talking about how the

Jew, who no longer has a temple, has to make up stuff that is not even in the

Hebrew Scriptures in order to have peace of mind that their sins have been atoned for, so they have to spiritualize things and say they offer up prayers and so forth.

And this Jewish believer, Marty Fromm, who's now in heaven, he said, can you imagine being the firstborn in the house of a

Jewish family when the angel of death was going to hover over the people of Israel, and your father is saying that, oh, we don't need to slaughter any animal, we don't have to paint the posts of the doorway with blood, that's just a figure of speech, it's an analogy, and we just have to really pray very hard tonight, and that will take care of everything.

And Marty says, in the voice of a young Jewish boy, Papa, can

I stay at Uncle Laban's house tonight? Yeah, I'd be stable with my uncle at that point.

But folks, don't forget about the conference where our guest is speaking from Shadows to Substance, that's

February 16th through the 18th at Covenant Reform Baptist Church in Tullahoma, Tennessee, and you can find out more details on Jeffrey Rice's Facebook page, and you can also go to Eventbrite and find out more about this from Shadows to Substance conference in Tullahoma, Tennessee.

I want to thank you so much, brother, for being my guest today. I look forward to your return to the program, I look forward to meeting you,

God willing, sometime in the future, and I really enjoyed myself today. I want to thank everybody who listened today, and I want all of you to always remember for the rest of your lives that Jesus Christ is a far greater