Q&A Panel

Truth in Love Network

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Hey, evening, this is true. Thank you so much for joining us. Thank you for watching the videos and supporting us.

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I'm with a group of men tonight. They are joining me to do this video with me this live

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Q and a panel Q and a session where we're going to try to answer some very important questions from a biblical perspective.

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I'm grateful for these men thankful that they are joining me tonight. And and our desire is to exalt

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Christ and to glorify him and to love you with his message and with our with our actions.

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And so they're joining me on a ministry that I do called truth and love.

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And I get that from Ephesians chapter four, verse 15, which says, but speaking the truth in love, we're to grow up in all aspects into him who was the head, even

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Christ. So we've asked the Holy Spirit would be working in us that we would speak truth and we would do that in love.

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And with that being said, I'm going to go around and let everyone introduce themselves tonight.

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We had some guys that couldn't join us tonight, and we have one who was gracious enough to fill in.

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And I'm very thankful that he was willing to do that. So I'm going to start with Daniel. Daniel, will you introduce yourself?

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Yeah, my name is Daniel Self. I live in upstate New York. That's about all

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I got. I love the Lord and excited about tonight. Talk about some things.

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Fantastic. Deontay, will you introduce yourself? All right. My name is Deontay Walters. I'm a new pastor, pastor of church in the beautiful city of Rio Linda, California, called

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New Beginnings Fellowship. And I know many of you might know Rio Linda from the late

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Rush Lambo. You know, you always say down here, Rio Linda. So that's where I'm at,

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California. Dale, will you introduce yourself? Yeah, my name is

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Dale Payne. I'm from North Carolina, just north of where Rob is from.

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I pastor Clark's Chapel Baptist Church here. I've been there for about five years.

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My wife and I, we served overseas in missions for a number of years.

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But we're happy to be back in town now. And that's that's about it for me.

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All right, Jonathan. My name is Jonathan Foster. I'm a pastor at Vertical Life with Vertical Life.

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And I love foreign missions and local missions. And so we're looking forward to being part of this tonight, brothers.

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And by the way, I'm the fill in. I didn't make the poster. And Jonathan is going to be the pastor that I'm going to be interviewing next

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Tuesday, hopefully, if the Lord allows. And then, Jesse. My name is

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Jesse Blaine. I'm from the great state of Illinois, closer to St. Louis than Chicago.

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And I'm currently studying at Whitefield Theological Seminary to be a pastor. Fantastic.

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Well, I really appreciate all these men joining me. And we pray that the

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Lord will use this time together to build each other, grow each other.

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And we want to help you in any way that we can. We're going to pray at the end.

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And at any point, if we can pray for you, let us know. All you have to do is type me. Let us know that we can pray for you.

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We'd love to be able to do that. We're also going to take questions live. If you have any questions, just type them out in the comments.

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It'll pop up and we'll be able to ask those questions live. Gentlemen, I think there's an option for you to see the comments if anyone asks any questions.

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So I'm not sure how that works on your end, but I think there is that option. So without any further ado, let's let's jump into these questions.

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These first couple of questions are going to be some that are coming from culture, coming from society that I think we need to address from a

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Christian, from a biblical perspective. And then then we'll get on to some other type of question.

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And these are tough questions. So I'm going to open up the floor and let these gentlemen speak and answer as as they feel led.

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So the first question is, and if you if you're not familiar with some of this terminology, OK. Maybe maybe somebody that knows a good definition can can maybe explain what maybe some of these unfamiliar terms mean.

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But the first question is, what does it mean to be woke? What does it mean to be woke?

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This this is a word that's going around in a lot of circles today. And it's it's making its way into Christian circles, into Christian churches, into Christian influence.

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And so we need to know, what does it mean to be woke? What does someone mean when they say woke?

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My understanding of it, Robert, is, you know, it's a person that has has a high sensitivity and awareness of social issues, you know, in our culture.

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You know, so so it's basically a person supposedly that that that's aware, that's that's attentive and and understand social issues.

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And of course, particularly with the issues of racism. And then it it parallels in a lot of ways in our culture with the

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Black Lives Matter movements and things of that nature. So that's my understanding of this.

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OK, anybody else? I think that's a pretty good definition.

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Yeah. OK. So is being woke, the folks that are promoting wokeness, they are encouraging individuals to to be woke.

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So is being woke compatible with the Bible? Should we all say that once?

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OK, I think we're all going to be in agreement that at least on on this panel, the answer is no.

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Being woke is not compatible with the Bible. So let's go ahead and answer the question. Why is being woke not compatible with the

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Bible? Well, let me let me let me

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I think there's a tension there, Robert. I think being woke, I think one thing as white

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American churches, I think sometimes we have not been sensitive to legitimate racial issues, too.

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And so so I just want to make sure that that if we say that it's unbiblical, that I think that's a fair assessment coming from the agenda that comes along with it, because of being attached with the

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LGBTQ communities and all the other things that that are unbiblical with that.

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But at the same time, I do think Christians should be aware and awake to very legitimate issues that's plagued our culture throughout.

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And so so that's that's where I would say, I think, defining it as well. There is an unbiblical agenda that is attached with this terminology.

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But I think we should also, as Christians, be extremely awake to any kind of injustices that are going on.

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And so there are some very, I guess you could say, popular guys out there that are attempting to take a biblical worldview that as as I've been looking at this and studying it for a long time, you know, even with what we'll get into in a minute with intersectionality or critical race theories and all those kind of things.

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So so I'm definitely not for the agenda that it brings. But at the same time,

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I'm not against admitting that there are still even in what should be a progressive culture, very, very real race issues that have to be talked about.

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And so so that's why I'm thankful for diversity in our panel tonight.

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And, you know, and I sit down with a couple of my black pastor friends, man, just good brothers in the

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Lord. And and we just had hard conversations about this. So so I think you can have a

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Christian worldview when it comes to being sensitive to to social sin.

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But at the same time, not have to line up with what we're saying is against what.

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So we're so we're ultimately defining the woke movement as a liberal anti biblical movement as well.

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But I think some of the principles of it aren't necessarily unbiblical. That makes sense. Is that fair to say, guys?

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I mean, what do you all think? I think from a biblical perspective, when we look at those who hold to a woke ideology or worldview are completely against or antithetical to what we hold to in the scriptures.

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I mean, if you just look on BLM's website, look at their definitions of what they want to do as far as destroying the family, as far as being

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Marxist in their worldview. They are completely antithetical to what we would hold to in scripture.

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So, yeah, we can say yes and a man that racism is evil, but we can't conflate the two ideas when we say that racism is the same as.

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What the Black Lives Matter organization would say that they believe in. So so, yes, the scriptures have no desire for us to hold to a racist worldview or have any desire for partiality.

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But those two things are not the same thing. We can we can be involved in social justice issues and not be woke.

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We can do so from a biblical framework, whereas the woke crowd wants to, especially in the church, wants to have those things intertwined or synchronized with the scriptures.

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And those two things are not compatible. They don't they don't go hand in hand. One is going to overtake the other.

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That's right. That's what I said. What's that? Yeah. Yeah. Good point. Maybe I can help give a little perspective on that from an overseas scenario.

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My wife and I, we served overseas in a particular country. And having been there for a while, we realized that it was a north south thing there.

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The northerners were racist against the southern peoples and the southern peoples were racist against the northern peoples.

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And, of course, it was hard for us to tell the difference in who was who. And so racism is a is multicultural and it goes around the world.

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It's just another effect of sin and the depravity of human nature.

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And it comes out in that sense. So the gospel supersedes that because the gospel, there's neither

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Jew nor Greek, there's neither bond nor free, there's neither male nor female. We are one in Christ Jesus.

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And the love that comes with knowing that God has loved us and he's redeemed us, regardless of our skin color, regardless of where we're from.

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It makes us brothers in Christ, brothers and sisters in Christ. And so I was asked a question last night.

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That person asked me, he said, can you be a racist and be a Christian? And I said, absolutely not.

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I said, you cannot be a hater and say you love the brethren. It's totally antithetical to what

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First John teaches us, what the scriptures teach us all around. And I guess that was a little bit of a shocking comment to them.

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But the reality is, is that's the truth. We know we've passed from death unto life because we love the brethren.

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So it's a sin just like other sins. It has social consequences. But sin, all sin condemns and sends you to hell.

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And so sin must be repented of. But I can keep going. I'm a preacher. That's what I do.

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That's right. And I guess all I'm trying to say is I 100 percent agree with you guys. And I didn't put in as eloquent of terms as you guys did.

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I just think my issue is in the South where I've been raised and those kind of stuff.

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It was taboo to talk about these issues. And so that's all I'm saying is it should not be.

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And that's why I'm so thankful for tonight. Robert, you put this together. It really has to be something talked about.

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And then the problem is, though, if you're willing to address it openly, then you're automatically thrown into a category.

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And so that's all I'm saying. So I just want to make sure we're willing to talk about it.

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But I think we should encourage others, other people, because I think it's a part of our missionology as well. If we're not willing to talk about cultural issues and race issues and it becomes a taboo to us, then we're ignoring the culture of being able to reach people as well.

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So so that's exactly right. I was

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I was jotting down a few things that I thought about some of the terminology, some of the language that is used when

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I'm talking about this issue. And you guys can feel free live on there to tell me if I'm off base or tell me tell me your thoughts on the what

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I was thinking on these things that I jotted down. But one of the terms that it's used in this conversation is systematic.

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So so this is where it's thrown around a lot. It's a broad term saying that it's a systematic problem.

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But what I see is that the word systematic is used, but the desired result is an individual benefit out of it.

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We want to we want to deal with a we want to call it a systematic problem, but what we want is an individual benefit, individual solution out of it.

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But in reality, as a Christian, I want to deal with my sin individually so that it has an outward benefit.

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I hope that does that make sense at all. Are you are you talking about systemic?

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Yes, systemic, systemic. Yeah, correct. In other words, it's inherent. Inherently, there's an issue with it is what you're saying.

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Inherently, it's it's the whole the system itself is systemically racist. So in other words, you need to tear down the system and then rebuild a new system.

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Is that what you're saying? Yes. And I apologize if I didn't use correct terminology, but I was just making sure.

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Yeah, absolutely. And to me, it seems like that that terminology is used to address that system as a whole.

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But what what is really desired is that an individual benefit is we won't we won't work in it for me.

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But then as a Christian, I want to deal with my individual sin so that I can be a benefit to the the greater community.

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It seems like it's the Christian perspective versus the secular perspective on that issue is kind of flip flop.

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And I may need to flesh those thoughts out, but you kind of see where I'm coming from. Yeah, there's an inherent selfishness related to any humanistic system.

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It doesn't matter what way that that system is built, whether it's a

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Marxist system or a capitalist system or a semi capitalist socialist system. There's always built in systemic disparities in those systems.

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You know, people say, well, you know, we need a communist socialist system and then everything will be fair.

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Well, that's not true. I've lived I've lived in a country that was that way. And let me tell you something.

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There were the ones in power and there was everybody else and they were all poor as dirt, you know.

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So there's anything that's that's built on a humanistic framework and setting will ultimately have disparity in it.

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It'll have racism in it. You know, I always think about the Apostle Paul and he was living in the

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Roman Empire, you know, and living in the Roman Empire. If you wanted to talk about racial injustice, you want to talk about systemic injustice, all of those things.

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Well, you know, he could have he could have spent all of his time writing epistles related to that.

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But he wrote epistles related to what the gospel of Jesus Christ does in in saving people from their sin, regardless of their strata in society.

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It doesn't mean and I don't mean this at all. It doesn't mean that you're not aware of what's going on.

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And if you can do something about it, you should do something about it. But it's not for us to spend all of our time on those social issues as preachers of the gospel.

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Our duty is to proclaim the word of God. I could have spent all my time overseas just trying to find food for the poor.

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Or I could try to balance that and preach the gospel of Christ. I couldn't save all the poor people, but I could give them the gospel.

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And there's a difference there that we have to balance that and be aware of it. But anyway, I'll be quiet.

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Oh, no, it's all good. It's all good. Any any final thoughts on that question? I know. OK. So going to the next one.

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I just think from a secular worldview, the mandates are to. Oh, I'm sorry.

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I've got a little bit of a lag. I'm not sure what's going on. I apologize. Go ahead.

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Was there a question from a secular worldview? I think I think. No, I think from a secular worldview, we want to have the culture to impact the individual versus the individual from a biblical worldview impacts the culture.

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And so I think that's the that's the huge, huge difference in my mind.

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And so from a biblical worldview, the only way to address social justice issues is for a person to be justified in Christ.

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That's that's the answer. And that's where you have to start in Christ. Then they will then they will impact their culture.

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And so cultural change does not does not affect the issue of racism, the issue of racism or woke issues or those things.

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That's a hard issue. That's a big issue. And just because something's mandated or whatever comes along with that, it doesn't transform the person, you know.

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So so that's where that's that's the reason I'm saying Christians, the ones who are justified to have an identity in Christ.

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That's why we have to speak into these issues, because we carry the gospel to the issue. And that's that's where true light shining.

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So I think we're saying the same thing. All right.

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All right. All right. So what is the intersectionality? This is a companion conversation in our groups and circles and culture today.

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What is intersectionality and is it compatible with the Bible? And people may people may real may not realize or may not recognize the term.

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But it was they may say, oh, yeah, I see. I see that happening.

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They just may not be familiar with the term. So could somebody define intersectionality for us?

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The way I understood it in a simplified way, it would be the level of your victimhood.

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So as my white brothers on here, you would be the oppressors.

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Right. And as a black man, I would be on the lower scale of victimhood, so to speak.

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But if I was a black trans woman, and however that goes,

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I would be at the height of this. So the more of a victim

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I am, the more I have the opportunity to. Right.

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Right. Basically, the more categories you're in, the more you're oppressed. Right. Right. So what is the end game of intersectionality?

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Why do they want those who are proponents of it? Why do they want this to be accepted?

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Why do they want this ideology to advance? What's what's the end game for intersectionality?

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It's ultimately power. That's what it all boils down to is power and who's in control and who controls what.

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And it's the same thing that history has been burdened with since Adam and Eve fell in the garden.

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All right. And chime in. And to go back to that, they actually just keep that in mind.

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Those who hold this view, they actually basically do the same thing that Adam and Eve did. As soon as they sin, what did they do?

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They started blaming their problems on somebody else. And really, the biblical view is all of us are oppressed.

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Every single human being has been oppressed by sin. Right. But not only are not only have we been oppressed, but also we are oppressors in and of ourselves.

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So you were you were taking us in that direction. Dale and Beyonce, of course, the answer is going to be that this is, of course, again, not compatible with scripture.

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So how is it not compatible with scripture? Because I would

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I would say one one reason why is going back to what we had said earlier.

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It causes you to place all of your your your problems on somebody else.

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It is somebody else's fault for why I'm, you know, experiencing something.

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You're not taking personal accountability for your own sins. Anybody else want to chime in?

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Oh, that's it in a nutshell. That was good. OK. So how does how's a

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Christian? We're going to move right on. How does a Christian understand race and racism? And we've we've touched on that already.

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If anybody wants to elaborate just a little bit more. How do we deal with race, racism and race?

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From a biblical perspective, I tell people that there's only one race and that's the human race.

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Amen. Yeah. You love them. You love people. You love people regardless of who they are, what color they are, where they come from.

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You share the love of Christ with them. You you reach out to them in the name of Christ.

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And you show that there's forgiveness of sin in Christ Jesus. And, you know, the scripture says we've all sinned and come short of the glory of God.

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So that's where, you know, you take people because everybody knows Romans 1 in their heart that they're a sinner against God.

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And they oppress that truth. They hold it down. But the reality is, is they all know it.

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And if you just start there, you start with the truth of the gospel. You love people. That makes a world of difference.

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Absolutely. Yeah, I think that's kind of where those those worldviews kind of collide together, is that everyone as an image bearer of God kind of sees the world.

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They see they see the same issues in the world. They just don't always call it what it is. Some will call it an oppression against them when really the problem is sin.

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So what we end up doing is as unbelievers, like they said earlier, they will suppress that truth with their own unrighteousness and try to fix the problem that they see through outside means.

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So they're trying to fix the problem without ever actually taking away sin. Whereas the

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Christian, what we do is we preach Christ and him crucified, because the only way that we're ever going to fix the problem that we see is for Christ to come and forgive the sins and to take them away, to wash them clean.

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That's the only real solution. So any solution or proposed solution that tries to fix one of these issues that doesn't deal with the problem of sin is going to fail.

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The only thing it can do is produce more sin because it forgets that first commandment. You shall have no other gods before me.

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When we place ourselves in the position of God, we go off.

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When you go off, you're living in or you're acting in a world that it doesn't jive with reality.

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And if you're not acting according to reality, it's not going to work. You might be able to lie to yourself for a little bit.

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Unless we deal with that problem of sin and live as people, creatures in God's world, we're not going to find any real solutions.

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That's why we have to preach Christ and make sure that that is the basis of our solution for any problem that we come across, especially one like racism and race issues.

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Fantastic. Yeah. What I'd like for you guys to do is to flesh that out even more into a way it's practical.

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So that leads me to my next question. Intersectionality and being woke, those those ideologies, those things are soon to be from our culture.

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They're from outside of us and they're trying to make an influence on us.

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But of course, what we want to do as Christians is we want to influence society.

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Obviously, gospel is is first and foremost.

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It's the answer. It's it's what it's what we want to influence our society with.

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But instead of the instance, instead of society influence influencing us, we want to be an influence on society.

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So how do we as individuals want some good application here?

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How can I as an individual make some influence in my society and my culture instead of the culture influencing me?

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What's my role? To love your neighbor as yourself.

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Yeah. Which is a lot easier said than done, because, you know, we are so prone to hate

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God and to hate our neighbors. Yeah, but we really just need to learn how to love others like we love our neighbors as we love ourselves.

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You know, Rob, the mainline churches of the 30s, 40s, 50s, particularly in the

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Northeast, they they became a social gospel oriented and I'm kind of putting this in a little nutshell, but they became social gospel oriented and they they left off preaching the gospel, expositing the word of God consistently, and they became more outreach oriented towards community and so forth.

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And there's nothing wrong with those things, but they allowed it to become the number one thing.

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As some of you guys are pastors and preachers, our number one, our number one duty and responsibility is to proclaim the word, proclaim the word to the congregation so that they grow in the knowledge of the

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Lord Jesus Christ. And then they go out impacting the world just as the Lord Jesus went out impacting the world.

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Now, granted, we don't necessarily heal and do some of those kinds of things. Maybe you guys are of a different persuasion than me, but we still go out and we we we minister to the sick and we we minister to I had a little lady this evening that called me from a nursing home, completely lost, completely addled, didn't know what was really going on.

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And it was just an opportunity to minister to her, you know, just a little bit.

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So we've got to be real careful not to become so socially driven that we forget our main priority.

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That's just a thought. But I know there's other things that can be done and that can be fleshed out a little better than what

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I just said. Yeah, I think whatever we actually get into, whatever we actually do, like, say, we're going to go to a school board meeting, we're going to go to our local council that needs to look like ministry of the word to those people.

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Because when we try to just fix an issue and we don't bring the word to bear on it, that's where we get into that issue where we're trying to fix a problem without having to take care of sin.

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So everything it says in Matthew to disciple the nations.

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So the thing that we want to concentrate on is when we go to the nations, we disciple them. When we have our children, make sure that their education is teaching them the right thing, because we want to think about the long game as well.

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That in the future, what are our children going to act like? We want to teach them how to do what is right.

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So that everything that we do, whether it be going to a school board, if we produce literature, if we do things like this, we can't go through and not make the word the central focus.

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Otherwise, like what happened up here in the northeast, you have people who want to do things socially. They leave off the word of God in order to try to get things accomplished.

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And there's churches everywhere up here and there's not a lot of gospel influence.

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You end up with a hollow shell of what it could be. That's just what

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I was going to speak to you guys. I think it was down when Robert was asking about very practically as well.

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There's no doubt what Pastor said just a second ago. Pastor Dale, when he said a second ago about preaching the gospel is our primary.

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But I think one of the issues that's happened recently and not just recently, but it's more public in our generation with social media and everything, you're not going to be able to preach the gospel without a credibility as well.

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And you're not going to be able to preach the gospel without genuine relationship with people. The attack of the enemy on the office of the pastor or the preacher or even the church in itself.

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The church appears very powerless and very, very empty, as the brother said just a second ago, an empty shell.

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But then we got guys that are up preaching and even though they're preaching truth, you know, I mean, honestly, I mean, if we the most recent thing, if we look at Robbie Zacharias in ministry, you know,

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Robbie was speaking a lot of things that were very truthful as far as an apologist and those kind of things.

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But then his life of what came out after his death, you know, has really undermined that truth speaking.

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And so that's all I'm saying. There's a credibility issue that we have to overcome. And then it has to be relational, too.

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We're attempting something pretty audacious in our culture, in our city, is we want every man, woman and child to be able to respond to the gospel.

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And the reality is our city is 70 percent uninterested.

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They don't care. And so how do we overcome that? And it has to be through authentic relationship.

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And so it's not just it is addressing social issues, but it's addressing social issues with face to face conversations with the gospel.

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And so I just I'm speaking from our culture. It's not that the role of the pulpit is ineffective because it is a primary thing that we work toward every single week.

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But if that's all we have, then then you're not going to have a very powerful ministry. And so in dealing with the issues of race, we can't just speak it from the pulpit.

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We've got to do life together and live with each other. And and so so it has to it requires a lot of intentionality.

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It requires phone calls. It requires a lot of humility and and just willing to be vulnerable.

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You know, and pastors aren't very good at those things. We're not very we're pretty egotistical guys. And if we're not careful, we we are not willing to talk to each other.

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Realifications and ministers and all those kind of things that, you know, that that a faith without works or preaching without works is dead.

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Doesn't matter. So so that's just important, I think. And I think that's that's some of the issue with the intersectionality is is things have been created,

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I think, as because there's been a vacuum of of activity from the church.

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I think there's been a vacuum of speaking into these things, into communities. And so when there's no king, the

37:03

Bible says they just do what's right in their own eyes. So people's come up with a worldly wisdom because there's there's no king in my city in Newton, Conover right now where there is a king.

37:13

Don't get me wrong. Jesus is king, but they're not bowing the knee to him. And so as a result, people just do what's right in their own eyes.

37:21

And that goes back all the way to the Old Testament. So when there's no king in Israel, do what's right in their own eyes.

37:27

So so let's go. We're not here unless we go. So that's that's important.

37:38

I appreciate your answers. Thank you. That's fantastic application. Love. Love with the word.

37:44

Love with the gospel. Love with our actions. If I could summarize everything that was just said.

37:51

So I want to transition. And you guys feel free to if you think of something that you that you wanted to say and you want to come back to it.

38:00

I'm open to that. Feel free to chime back in. I want to change the line of questioning. If you're watching.

38:07

Thank you so much for watching. We really appreciate it. We hope that this is being edifying or encouraging to you.

38:14

If you have any questions, we're going to take questions live. And so all you have to do is put them in the comments and we'll try to answer your question live.

38:23

We'll be looking for them. If we can pray for you at the end, let us know. We would love to be able to do that as well.

38:30

So let's transition to another line of questioning. And hopefully these will be helpful to you or to someone, you know, if you think if you think these questions will be helpful to someone.

38:44

Share this question and answer session with them. And we want to share

38:51

Jesus with everyone that we can and give them good, solid biblical answers.

38:57

So here's the first question. Why would a good person go to hell?

39:09

What does it mean to be good? All right. Expound on that a little bit.

39:19

The Bible tells us that no one is good. No one is righteous. I think our definition of good is that everyone is primarily in our culture a decent person.

39:31

Right. We all are good people, quote unquote. But the scriptures tell us that no one does good.

39:38

Right. So not only that, Ephesians tells us that we are all spiritually dead.

39:44

Yes. Those who do not know Christ can do decent things in the eyes of the world and even to us who are in the church.

39:53

But to have a right relationship with Christ requires regeneration and that requires the work of the

40:03

Holy Spirit. And no one in and of himself can do that. So your definition of good is extremely important.

40:11

Are we are we defining it as the culture defines it, that everybody is good? I'm good.

40:16

Me and my family is good as long as I'm not like Adolf Hitler or I'm not like Joseph Stalin.

40:23

Are we defining the scripture defines good? I think that's key. I think this answering this question goes right along with what some of you guys were saying earlier.

40:38

This type of questioning comes from outside of scripture.

40:44

It comes from culture. It comes from society. And so therefore, as as a friend, as a family member.

40:53

As we approach this individual that we're having a conversation with, like you guys were saying earlier.

41:02

We can't come to a conversation without Jesus. We can't come to a conversation without the word of God, without truth.

41:12

And so by you guys answering this question, you're kind of putting an example, you're giving an example of what we were talking about earlier.

41:21

So we're we're helping. We're we're looking at this question and we're bringing

41:28

Christ to it. We're bringing truth to it. And this is a common question that so many people ask.

41:34

Why would a good person go to hell? And what we need to do is what Jesse did. Bring Jesus and bring scripture to the conversation.

41:44

And I appreciate that answer, Jesse. Does anybody else have any thoughts on that question and how to approach that question?

41:54

Here's a good one. David Platt said it this way. He brought it up. He said, what happens to the to the innocent man that lives in the middle of the

42:02

Amazon that dies and never hears about Christ? And David Platt said, well, he unequivocally goes to heaven.

42:09

The problem is there's no such thing as an innocent man that lives in the middle of the Amazon. You know, we're all guilty before God.

42:18

And so so it is it's you know, it's a very important thing to be able to biblically define that.

42:24

And it is hard, guys. I mean, we have to think about this. We can sit around and think theologically all day long, but obviously feeding the hungry or, you know,

42:36

I've done a lot of work in Haiti. And when the earth big earthquake happened in Haiti some years back, you know, celebrities and all kinds of people jumping in and throwing lots of money and helping people and doing those kind of stuff.

42:48

You know, would we say that in itself is bad? So there's a there's a human humanitarian level of good versus what is righteous as well.

42:57

And I think biblically speaking, we have to define good is only righteousness.

43:04

And that righteousness only comes through Christ alone. That my righteousness is as filthy rags in the eyes of God versus the eyes of man.

43:13

And I would just I would just throw that in there. Right. And real true righteousness is not just your actions.

43:20

That's right. Maybe part of the problem is we really just don't understand sin.

43:29

Proper definition of sin. We usually just define sin as just hating somebody, being racist, doing bad.

43:39

And that is. But but but it's it's also the disposition of your heart. Well, it's it's be holy as I am holy, be perfect.

43:49

So the only way to heaven is to be as perfect as God is perfect and holy as God is holy.

43:54

That's the only way in. So if I am if I am one inkling of a breath below that,

44:01

I mean, the smallest like white, white little white line or whatever, we want to kind of categorize it. I have fallen short of that expectation.

44:10

And now I'm under condemnation for all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God.

44:15

And so so now I need a savior. The only way to bridge that gap is is through a savior.

44:22

So so it is difficult to understand. And I think it brings up another point, Robert. I'm careful not to say that all sin is equal.

44:30

It's not. I think all sin is equally damning, but not all sin is equal. Not all sin carries the same earthly consequences.

44:39

And so I think that so that's where some people say, well, I'm not that bad. You know,

44:45

I'm not as bad as them in the play, the comparative game. But at the end of the day, all have sinned.

44:52

So the only thing we can do be good in is the goodness of Christ or the perpetuation of our sin and imputed righteousness.

45:02

Yeah. Yeah. I thought you were going to say something else apart from Christ.

45:08

The only thing that we're good at is good at sinning. That's true, too.

45:17

It's kind of like the quote. I can't remember who said it. The only thing that we bring to the table in our salvation is their sin.

45:25

Sin that made it necessary. Yes. That's right. I like I like what

45:30

H .B. Charles said. This one liner said, bad news is you can't save yourself.

45:38

Good news is you don't have to. Absolutely. And we we praise

45:48

God. We we worship him this weekend. We celebrate Resurrection Day.

45:54

And that's what this is all about. And thank you for bringing that point, Deontay. We don't have to.

46:00

He's done it. He is. The tomb is empty. Christ is raised from the dead. And we can we can come to him in faith and he can he will save us.

46:11

He promises that. Any other thoughts on that question? So here here's the next.

46:19

This is a tough question. And I'm interested to see what you guys have to say about it.

46:24

Did God create evil? See, everybody's going to jump in on that.

46:38

Can I be the first to punt? I would say two things here.

46:46

That's a very difficult question. And there's lots of scholars that have said different things in different ways.

46:53

There's there's two things you have to know. And I probably a little too deep to go into tonight.

47:00

But God ordains and God decrees. And you have to understand the difference between those two.

47:08

God decrees all things and he ordains certain things.

47:14

And evil, in a sense, was brought under the ordaining to allow us.

47:20

And this is just very simplified to see his work of redemption, his righteousness, his justice, his wrath, and all of those things displayed in redemption.

47:33

So that's just a very short scenario with that. Probably a little hard to go into in the time we have here.

47:43

Yes. I think I think it was R .C. Sproul who had made that basic same point saying in one sense or actually knows

47:50

John McCarthy saying in one sense, it's it's good that evil exists because it displays all of God's divine attributes.

47:59

So we wouldn't know how much God loves us. We wouldn't know that God is patient with sinners, that he's merciful, that he's compassionate without sin.

48:10

So in one sense, it magnifies his grace. Right. Amen.

48:20

And also, I think it's important to find evil. I mean, you've got Isaiah forty five, seven of the light and I create darkness, bring prosperity and I create disaster.

48:28

I, the Lord, do all these things. So some things that we might consider evil. So was the flood evil? I mean, he killed millions of people potentially.

48:37

So was that a work of evil? Well, from a human perspective, maybe. But totally justified from a

48:45

God from a God perspective. So it's actually going back to even the question that we had earlier as well.

48:51

You know, even defining what is good from whose perspective are you talking about? Right. Defining what is evil from whose perspective?

48:58

Where are you talking from? Right. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Good job, guys.

49:06

So continuing on with that line of thinking, how can

49:11

God be good and evil exist? So just continue on with that line of thinking.

49:16

How can God be good and evil exist? So part of what or all of what

49:29

Jonathan was saying is something that you want to throw into that conversation as well. You need to define evil.

49:35

You need to understand it from a biblical perspective. What else what else do we have on this question?

49:42

How can God be good and evil exist? I think your question is flawed.

49:54

I think the question is fundamentally flawed because what we're trying to do is with that kind of a question is we're trying to put

50:02

God on the stand and make him adhere to our sense of righteousness and our sense of justice.

50:08

You got to be very careful with that. You know, God chose to allow

50:14

Adam and Eve to fall in the garden and sin to enter into the world. So God is good.

50:22

Yes. And God displays his goodness even through the allowance of those of sin into the world.

50:29

So it comes back really. And I can see how that would be asked from a person who doesn't have, you know, theology or isn't studying theology.

50:38

But there again, sometimes the if you if you kind of deal with the question itself, you can kind of bring the question back where it needs to be.

50:47

You know, why is there famine? Well, it's not because of God. It's because sin.

50:55

But God allows sin. So, you know, there's ways to phrase things and talk of things.

51:03

And that helps answer the suffering question, because that's a common question from folks, too. If God is good, they're suffering.

51:11

If God is good, a lot of bad things happen to good people. Those are all in the same family of the question.

51:21

We have to acknowledge, in my opinion, and this was in the lengthy theological discussion.

51:29

But if there ever were two human beings that walk the face of the earth that had an absolute free will without the influence of sin, it would be

51:39

Adam and Eve. And what did they use their free will to do? They use their free will to rebel against God.

51:44

And so therefore, from one man's sin, all men become sinful. And so now I have used my will, my volitional will to continue the habit of my original father,

51:55

Adam. And had it not been for the second Adam, I would continue in that process. So there is this allowance of God for sure.

52:06

But there is a responsibility of man. There is the decisions, the volitional responsibility of man that we willfully sin against God and rebel against him and all are hostile toward him.

52:18

And so therefore, there's evil in the world because of the sinfulness of man. And I think it's fair to say that.

52:25

And I'm not going to say that there's a demon under every rock. Sometimes it is the forces of evil, the forces of Satan.

52:32

But sometimes it's just flat out rebellion and sinfulness of man as well. And so that's why evil exists, even though God is still good.

52:41

I think it's the sinful nature of mankind on the face of the earth. And that's why bad things happen to good people, even though we may feel like some people don't deserve a cancer or deserve a car wreck or deserve whatever happens.

52:54

And our mindset, we're still a part of a fallen culture. So it's not why did

53:00

I get this? It's why wouldn't I get this? You know, it's a it's a reality of a fallen culture.

53:06

So I think the Bible pretty much when it comes to evil places, the responsibility squarely on the shoulders of men and people.

53:18

I appreciate that, guys. All right. With this next question, this is going to be a really good question.

53:24

And there's so many answers that we can give. I think there's enough room for each of you to give an answer.

53:31

But with this question, thinking about Easter, thinking about Resurrection Sunday coming up with this question.

53:38

And with those of you who are watching and you guys who are answering questions, let's worship

53:45

Christ with this question. As we answer. The question is.

53:52

Who is the Jesus of the Bible? Let's let's hear who

53:57

Jesus is and let's worship him through our answers. And I'd like for each of you to give, you know, some different attributes, different descriptions of who the

54:07

Bible says Jesus is. Well, he's the eternal son of God who assumed our human nature and he lived the perfect life that we cannot live.

54:24

And he died on the cross, paying the penalty for our sins. Amen. Yeah, he's the he's the creator.

54:36

He's the one who God spoke into existence and everything that we see is made by God.

54:50

Our whole purpose, existence, meaning the air that we breathe, all of it laid out before the foundations of time.

55:01

It's God. Yeah. I like the comment down there.

55:07

He's the justifier because even he entered into his creation, like brother was saying, entered into his creation to save his creation.

55:15

This creation was fallen. He had such a love for his creation, for everything that he made, that he made incredible humiliation and sacrifices to even become a human.

55:26

And then to die in the place of sinners. Incredible. He's the lamb that was slain before the foundations of the world.

55:42

And behold, the Lord of God, it takes away the sins of the world. And he's the lion of Judah that is coming back in his triumph over the grave and death and hell is the

55:51

Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. And all things were created for him, by him and through him.

55:57

And nothing exists apart from him. And a body in him is the vine and the branches. You can do anything.

56:03

And apart from him, you can do nothing. Somebody preach, guys.

56:09

Let's roll. Sound like you was doing good right there.

56:16

Don't get us on a roll now, man. I'm sitting here just like squeezing my hand in. Go ahead with it.

56:24

Go ahead with it. Tell us about Jesus. Go ahead. And you can go around first. Go ahead, brother.

56:31

He's worthy. I've been preaching out of Revelation chapter five and chapter five, verse four.

56:39

John wept because no one was worthy to take the book and open the scroll and break the seals.

56:47

And then as we read on, the elder came to John and he said, weep not.

56:54

Because the lion of the tribe of Judah, the seed of David, he is the one who is worthy to open the book.

57:04

And it's just right after that, starting in verse eight, where all the 24 elders, the living ones around the throne, and then the angelic hosts, and then all of them begin to sing.

57:16

And then it says down, I think it's in verse 13, all creation gives praise and glory and honor unto the lamb who was slain.

57:26

So worthy is the lamb. And what a wonderful word for Easter as well. Worthy is the resurrected lamb of God who takes away our sin.

57:36

Amen. Amen. He is holy. He is the holy

57:42

Lord of glory. He is the one that Isaiah saw in Isaiah chapter six, when he fell on his face, when the lambs were, the angels were saying, holy, holy, holy.

57:52

He is the Lord of glory that we will all bend the knee to and submit to willingly or unwillingly.

58:01

Amen. Let me include some of the commenters. Justifier that was brought up, justifier.

58:10

He is savior and redeemer. Aubrey says, Charmaine says he is the way, the truth, and the life.

58:16

Anthony says the advocate constantly pleading on our behalf. Bruno says that's right.

58:22

He's coming back. Hebrews says the day is drawing near. We should live in urgency.

58:27

And Charmaine says he is worthy. Amen. Amen. Can I add one more?

58:33

Absolutely. My favorite one lately has been he is king. He is king.

58:39

I think that wraps up everything that we've been talking about from BLM to intersectionality to our sin.

58:47

It is Jesus Christ when he rose from the dead. Speaking of Resurrection Sunday, Matthew 28, he said, all authority has been given to me.

58:58

So everything that we say, do and think, especially in the church, should have the framework of, okay, what does

59:07

Christ say about this? So he is the king, whether we like it or not, no matter who's in the

59:14

White House or not, whether his name is Joe Biden or Donald Trump. Jesus Christ is king and he is ruling and reigning now.

59:22

That's right. Amen. Let me get Gene in here. He is our Messiah, our servant king, son of God, risen

59:29

Lord, our righteousness, our holiness, our justification, our perfection, our provider, our hope, our coming king, our shepherd, our rewarder, our encourager, our high priest, our wisdom, our inheritance, our lover, our lover, our warrior, the

59:48

Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. Got a question for you guys.

59:53

Sean asked, do you all still get emotional when you deeply think about what

59:59

Jesus went through during this week leading up to tomorrow? Absolutely, absolutely.

01:00:08

Yes. And then he continues,

01:00:15

Sean continues, and then get joyous on Sunday. Yeah.

01:00:24

You know, any true believer, someone that's truly born again, the love of God is shed abroad in their hearts by the

01:00:32

Holy Ghost, which is given unto them. And when you come to Resurrection Sunday, and really you come to any

01:00:39

Sunday, any time of worship and praise or prayer, there's a joy that comes about because the love of God is shed abroad in your heart by the

01:00:52

Holy Ghost. And that's a fruit of the Spirit. Now, I mean, some occasions you might find your spirit to be dry, and at other occasions, you know, way up here.

01:01:01

But there's a joy in knowing that you're forgiven of your sin, that you've been loved by God, that you've been chosen in him, that he's set your feet on a solid rock.

01:01:10

He's lifted you up. He's made you one of the beloved. You know, I want to be like John the

01:01:17

Beloved, and I want to be leaning close to the Lord Jesus as he was there at the Last Supper.

01:01:22

And just be in communion, because John said that he was the disciple that Jesus loved.

01:01:29

And I want to live within that thought and that framework. So, yes, I get excited and I get joyful.

01:01:38

What's it mean if you cry at both occasions, Robert? I'm going to cry on Good Friday service tomorrow, and I'm going to cry on Sunday morning.

01:01:52

And, you know, it is very emotional. And I think it's something that should be a commonality when the

01:02:00

Spirit of God touches our life. There should be, those truths touch our lives, should be creating emotion within us.

01:02:07

And I get it. There are dry seasons. But, man, just hearing you guys talk about Jesus and, you know, in the name of Jesus.

01:02:15

And, you know, I was feeling emotion a second ago. See this little vein popped out of my forehead right here.

01:02:23

Well, and I appreciate you guys, and I appreciate the direction that the conversation went.

01:02:30

It's the knowledge of Christ that leads to our emotion.

01:02:37

It's the truth of Jesus Christ that directs our emotion. And a lot of times our world gets that backwards, that we want our emotions to feed and declare what truth is.

01:02:51

But in Christianity, biblically, the truth and the truth about Christ and the knowledge of that leads to our emotion.

01:03:01

And so I appreciate the direction of this conversation and where it went. Going on to the next question and bringing out, bringing back out what

01:03:09

Charmaine commented in the post there. She said that Jesus is the way, the truth and the life.

01:03:17

So if someone asks you, how can, why does

01:03:24

Jesus claim to be the only way true? How can we trust that? How can I believe in that?

01:03:31

Jesus claims to be the only way to heaven. Well, that that claim has been validated by his resurrection.

01:03:54

And it is definitely one more way than we deserve. Right. I think it has to go down to the authority of scripture.

01:04:07

We believe the Bible is true. None of us living today have ever heard the voice of Jesus in his humanity say those words.

01:04:16

I am the way, the truth and the life. And no one comes to the father except by me. But we see that written very plainly in the gospel, John. So, so we believe in the authority of scripture and the truth of scripture.

01:04:27

And that so scripture sufficient and the scripture truth. So. Along those same lines, here's here's another question.

01:04:42

What does it mean for him to be the only way? So so think about this coming from a skeptic, maybe.

01:04:49

What does it mean for Jesus to be the only way? Think about this in practical terms.

01:04:55

What does it mean for Jesus to be the only way? What does that look like? What does that sound like? Rob, what do you mean by what does it sound like?

01:05:15

Like, is somebody complaining because he's the only way among many ways or my way is could be a possibility.

01:05:24

What are your thoughts on that? That could be. Yeah, that could be where someone's coming from.

01:05:30

This question could come from many directions. So, you know, maybe hit it from some different directions.

01:05:41

He's one of many ways. Whatever comes to mind, however, you think you may address this for someone.

01:05:54

What does it mean? I think it has to come from the standpoint that that basically our culture has said what's good for you is good for you.

01:06:04

And what's good for me is good for me. And so I'll do my thing and you do your thing and then we can just get along. And and as a result of that, truth has been been watered down to.

01:06:16

There is no absolutes. And so that's what makes this question really hard in our culture, because it's an absolute and it's narrow.

01:06:23

It's very narrow. And and so I like what you're saying, your brothers. The one way is at least we got one way.

01:06:30

It's better. One way is more than one that we deserve. And so that's right. And but it's a narrow way.

01:06:37

And and our culture does not like narrow things. We like broad things. We like easy things. We don't like narrow things.

01:06:43

So I think, first of all, that's why people want to debate, debate that question. But but the answer to how

01:06:50

I respond to that personally, guys, is it. Well, if you can show me another place where a man paid for the penalty of sin and satisfied the wrath of God, then we might could say there's multiple ways.

01:07:05

But until you can show me any other person in all of history that that God himself said that in Isaiah 53, he bore our sin, he bore our shame, he was crushed for our iniquity.

01:07:15

The penalty of sin of us all was put upon him. There's no other man in history that has fulfilled that.

01:07:22

So until we find someone else, which we won't, by the way, I'm talking very facetiously. So don't make me a heretic, guys.

01:07:29

But until we find another man that walked the earth sinlessly, that satisfied the wrath of God so that the just God could also become the justifier until we find that other person, there's no other way except through Jesus Christ, because he's the only one that fulfilled that.

01:07:48

And so so all other gods, all other false gods, all other prophets, all other teachers all died and are still dead.

01:07:58

And none of them, none of them made the claim that I'm going to pay the penalty for all of your sin.

01:08:06

They taught a moralism or taught a works based religion. And so so that's that's the difference,

01:08:14

Robert. That's that's that's how we have to respond to that. But we can't deny what the culture is coming at is saying, hey, you know, don't make it so narrow for me.

01:08:23

You know, if you want to be narrow, that's fine. But don't don't don't impose on me because I believe there's other ways.

01:08:29

And so it's actually a watering down of truth is even when we ask this question, even why this question exists.

01:08:36

It's because of the the wisdom of men versus the wisdom of God. So, yeah,

01:08:43

I think it kind of goes back to Romans one. If you think about it, we have the knowledge of the truth, but we choose to suppress that knowledge with our own unrighteousness.

01:08:54

So I mean, that Jesus is the only way is the way it has to be.

01:08:59

He is our creator. He is our justifier. He is the one who came and died for the sins of men.

01:09:08

If there is no other way because there is no other reality, we take the knowledge of that God that we know exists and we suppress it.

01:09:18

So to make the claim that there might be another way, it makes no makes no sense.

01:09:25

There's only one way because there's only one truth. The only one truth comes from our creator who has been from before the foundations of the world.

01:09:33

So we have to make that claim because there is no other way. There's just the truth.

01:09:38

And then whatever lie we want to tell ourselves, get out of the fact that we will one day have to stand before him and answer for our sins.

01:09:48

There's what is known as objective truth and subjective truth, and the culture is immersed in subjective truth.

01:09:56

And that means it's how I feel or what I want to believe. Objective truth comes from outside the human heart, comes from God.

01:10:05

And understanding those differences really helps with that question. How can we trust that objective truth which comes from scripture?

01:10:17

How can we trust that it is true, that it's right?

01:10:25

Somebody said it a few minutes ago because it's real. It's not living in la -la land.

01:10:31

It's real. There's a wage to sin, and the wage of sin is what?

01:10:37

It's death. It proves itself every single time. So the consequence when you have the moral law of God given, you have thou shalt not kill, thou shalt not steal, all of these things.

01:10:52

You have these truths because to not obey those truths is to find yourself in a quagmire of somebody else said it earlier.

01:11:03

Every man did that which is right in his own eyes. So that word of God, that truth comes from outside ourselves.

01:11:12

But people will always argue those points because they always want to go back to the way

01:11:17

I feel and subjectivism. Yeah, and answering this question, so many of these questions, so many of these objections are within the same family of other questions.

01:11:34

And so you guys, in answering this question, hit so many of the other ones. Is truth relative?

01:11:41

Well, we've talked about that. Objective and subjective truth.

01:11:47

We've talked about when we talk about Jesus being the only way we've talked about the difference between Jesus and his his

01:11:56

Christianity and other religions. We've touched on that.

01:12:02

So answering these questions really helps us to answer a plethora of other questions.

01:12:11

Any other thoughts on those? Here's another one.

01:12:19

Are people born good or neutral? And I think we've touched on that as well. But did somebody want to answer that question?

01:12:30

No. So how are we born if we're not born good or neutral?

01:12:42

What does the Bible say about who we are at birth? Well, David says we were born in sin and shaping an iniquity.

01:12:53

Right. So we're all born spiritually dead. We're all born haters of God, haters of our neighbors, haters of the truth, haters of the light, all born sinners.

01:13:07

Preach. Right. I think we also have to remember, too.

01:13:14

The question may be, well, why is that? I look at my life and I think, yeah,

01:13:20

I've told a couple of lies or whatever. But what what makes me different? And how can you say that I'm born in sin?

01:13:27

How can you say that anybody's born in sin? But somebody touched on it earlier. We have to remember that we are.

01:13:33

Adam was our covenant head. And so you would look at that and say, well, that's not fair.

01:13:40

I'm taking the responsibility of Adam's sin. Right. But in all reality, we as a result of Adam's sin, mankind is all born into a state of sin.

01:13:52

As the catechism says, sin and misery. And so it's also not fair that Christ, because of Adam's sin, took on flesh and bore the sin of all mankind, the entire world, to do what we as a result could not do because of Adam's sin.

01:14:16

Thank you, guys. I appreciate that. This next question is going to be one of those that there may be differences.

01:14:27

And I think the guys here in this question answer panel, we we agree on a lot.

01:14:34

But even even with this question, there could be some disagreement. So based on your comfortability of answering a question, feel free to obtain or answer the question however you like, because it's not it's not a necessary theological stance for salvation.

01:14:59

It's not an essential issue. So the question was asked, does evolution disprove the

01:15:06

Bible? How would you answer that question to somebody on the street, a skeptic?

01:15:15

Or even a believer that one of your congregants that is a student that's having this question at school, does evolution disprove the

01:15:26

Bible? I think that goes back to a previous question or statement that somebody made.

01:15:37

What is truth? And so the foundation is is evolution. As far as macro evolution, that one

01:15:46

Thursday night at eight o 'clock or nine o 'clock, the world just explode.

01:15:51

Right. So is that a theoretical fact or is that something that is false?

01:15:58

So the question would be, can we trust the scriptures or do we trust what man has given us as a result of his own fears?

01:16:11

You said it right, too, brother. This is the evolution theory.

01:16:17

So we have scientific law and God give us scientific law.

01:16:23

I mean, he created law. He created order. He's not the god of chaos. He's not the god of accidents.

01:16:30

He's not the god of just hypothetical scenario. And that's the issue with it is it's evolutionary theory, not evolutionary law.

01:16:43

So so that that's the first statement. The second statement, and you used a good word there, macro versus micro and and having people define that.

01:16:52

But we have micro evolutions. We have adapting to conditions. We have you know,

01:16:57

I'm a pretty hairy dude. And so but I was I was raised up in the far western, up in the backwoods of the

01:17:04

Appalachian Mountains of North Carolina. You know, it's freezing cold all the time. I'm like a Viking, you know. So, you know, versus you,

01:17:12

California boys, look at you all slick faced over there and all in the sunshine state and everything, you know.

01:17:17

So so that's all I'm saying. You know, I mean, I don't think we have to be intimidated by that question. I think we can just be really honest.

01:17:25

And and but we're not afraid of science at all, you know.

01:17:30

So we look at scientific law and we look at scientific fact and and scientific law and scientific fact proves the

01:17:37

Bible in many ways. But then also there's miraculous things that defy science, you know, axe heads that float and, you know, people that walk on water and miraculous events as well.

01:17:49

And so but in many ways, science affirms and archaeology affirms much of what the

01:17:56

Bible says. And so so therefore, I don't think evolution has to become a threatening issue for the

01:18:04

Bible at all, because it is theory. Now, what I get frustrated about this is a whole nother issue that we don't have time to discuss tonight.

01:18:12

I don't understand why, by law, in many of our public schools, they banded or, you know, are not allowed the teaching of creationism and and yet mandate the teaching of evolutional evolutionary theory.

01:18:29

You know, so if you want to teach one, teach both. You know, it's way this way, I argue. And so some of our principals really scratched their head on that when

01:18:37

I sit down and had conversations with them. So anyways, just just a thought. So go ahead, go ahead.

01:18:45

And as as another one, as one of my professors would say, we have to distinguish between a

01:18:51

Christian view of science and a non -Christian view of science. That's right.

01:18:57

Yeah, that's right. And maybe somebody could answer this from Charmaine. She says, reverse the question. Does the

01:19:02

Bible disprove evolution? That's not the intent of the

01:19:08

Bible. That's not the intent of what the Bible is for. If you believe the

01:19:14

Bible, then by default, other than micro evolution, you're not going to hold to the the other elements of evolutionary theory.

01:19:26

For one thing, because of the absurdity that surrounds it. I mean, anyone with logic and common sense can see through most of that.

01:19:33

But having said that, you if you claim evolutionary theory and you hold to that and you really cast off Genesis one, two, and to some degree, chapter three, then

01:19:50

Romans is not going to make sense. And in the other fundamental doctrines that are brought before us and brought out in the

01:20:00

New Testament, you're going to have problems. You've you've kind of cut off your hand.

01:20:07

You know, what is your foot? Despite your other leg or however that goes, you're hurting yourself there deeply.

01:20:14

But that's another whole thing that we don't have time to get into, you know. But no, the

01:20:21

Bible doesn't disprove evolution. It's not intended to disprove evolution. It does say in the beginning,

01:20:28

God created the heavens and the earth. And that's objective truth.

01:20:38

You got that. You got the joke. We have a we have a sobering question coming from the comments, and, you know, this is a question that comes up occasionally.

01:20:56

And you guys can answer this if you would like. What is the penalty of a person saved committing suicide?

01:21:06

And maybe if you've heard the question posed differently, what are some of your thoughts on that issue?

01:21:21

And this is a sensitive subject. This is a sensitive issue. And I know I know you guys will answer.

01:21:31

We'll answer. Well, so can I rephrase the question, Robert? Yes, sir.

01:21:37

Yes, sir. I've actually preached two of these funerals in the last 10 years.

01:21:43

So in other words, the question would be, is is suicide the unpardonable sin would be number one.

01:21:52

And number two, is it possible that a Christian could become so depressed to actually go through with suicide?

01:22:00

So in other words, it is a sin. No doubt. We're not denying that. It is against God's design and God's law.

01:22:08

So but because the Lord gives and the Lord takes away. And so so at the end of the day is, is it an unpardonable sin?

01:22:19

And number two is, is it possible that a Christian could become so depressed through circumstances that they'd actually follow through with suicide?

01:22:28

So. So I think that sort of helps clarify the question a little bit, because a lot of teachings say if you commit suicide, you may as well go to hell.

01:22:41

So. So in other words. So I'll leave it to you guys.

01:22:49

I talk a lot. Is the is it is it the unpardonable sin?

01:22:57

No, absolutely.

01:23:03

That's correct. No. Another another thought to that, too. You know, there's physical issues that people deal with sometimes and chemical imbalances that can occur.

01:23:16

You know, you have to look at all of those things. And so somebody that's been a strong believer, you know, all of a sudden you see this change going on.

01:23:25

It doesn't mean that they don't love the Lord or or something else. So you always have to look at the situation and be very careful.

01:23:31

But it's not the unpardonable sin, though. And I'll take on the second one since I answered, since I asked the question, you know, is it possible that a believer can become so depressed that he would actually follow through with suicide?

01:23:44

And a couple of circumstances, not all circumstances necessarily relegate truth.

01:23:52

But one circumstance, a young man had come to faith. I had been meeting with him.

01:23:58

He was a drug addict. I believe he come to authentic faith. He had abstained from drugs, all of those things.

01:24:07

And but he was a babe in Christ. I mean, a babe. And and three weeks later, all of his friends and drug buddies had abandoned him.

01:24:17

His girlfriend broke up with him. He was kicked out of his house. He had lost his job. I mean, it was just a a list of things that hit him all at one time.

01:24:27

And, you know, he took a shortcut, you know, he walked out in the backyard and and quit, you know.

01:24:32

And so so it was it was tragic. But in talking with him, did he have faith in Christ?

01:24:38

He did. But he was so immature in his faith. He didn't he didn't know how to walk that out.

01:24:45

So that's one thing. The second thing is, guys, we have seen a rising and it's very concerning.

01:24:53

Pastors burn out. Through through so many circumstances, we had a man in our community just some years back that that took his own life.

01:25:06

There was a pastor while he was pastoring the church and a very tragic situation.

01:25:12

And so, yeah, I mean, it was it's an Elijah syndrome, if you could say, or whatever. You know,

01:25:18

Elijah was in the cave and he was just begging for God to take his life. I think Elijah was suicidal, you know.

01:25:23

And so I think it is very possible that men of God can become so blinded by their own emotions, own depressions, own circumstances that they lose sight of the reality of the gospel.

01:25:41

Does that cause them to be unregenerate? No, it doesn't. Does it cause them to have the

01:25:48

Holy Spirit or God forsaken them? No, he hasn't. And since it's not the unpardonable sin, which

01:25:55

I totally agree with, God did not forsake any that were even sinful, even

01:26:01

David or any others that committed adultery or murder or any other things that you want to think about.

01:26:09

So the grace of God is sufficient. So we would say it's not God's plan.

01:26:15

It is sin and it is not pleasing unto the Lord, but there is a grace extended.

01:26:23

And that's what makes the cross and the resurrection so beautiful. But even in our foolishness, it is it is such a heavy subject, guys.

01:26:31

And so any of you out there that are listening, if I could just speak to that, Robert, too. If you're considering suicide, please hear me reemphasize that it is it is not

01:26:42

God's design and it is not God's plan. And there are a plethora of people out there that will be willing to walk with you and speak hope to you, encourage you.

01:26:53

And then also, like Brother said a second ago, there could be very legitimate chemical imbalances, medical issues that that lead to to very serious consequences with emotions and a number of things like that.

01:27:06

So so please seek help. Don't don't fight these circumstances alone.

01:27:13

And so it's a very sensitive subject. Sorry, I don't mean to monopolize the time, guys, but it's something that I don't know if you guys have preached those funerals before, but I've had a couple in the last last four or five years.

01:27:25

I'll say it's a very heavy, heavy, heavy funeral to preach in a very difficult circumstance. Yeah, I appreciate that.

01:27:33

We we need to share that that love with someone who may need to hear that.

01:27:40

Someone who's listening that may need to hear that. So thank you for sharing that love and concern for whoever may be listening.

01:27:49

I think that question came from a personal situation.

01:27:59

And then also Anthony is asking a similar question.

01:28:04

Somebody who somebody who is saved and secure in Christ, do we lose that still of the

01:28:09

Holy Spirit on our lives? Let me give this answer and you guys can help me out.

01:28:18

And it it it deals with the first question and also deals with Anthony's question.

01:28:23

And I think you guys have already answered Anthony's question. We we established and I think we're in a consensus that we it's not the unpardonable sin.

01:28:35

We don't lose our salvation because we commit that sin.

01:28:42

Our our sin, all our sin was paid for by Christ on the cross.

01:28:48

And so with that being said, we transfer over now to thinking about, yes, it's a sin, as Pastor Jonathan said, it's a sin.

01:29:00

But we want to think about it as maybe we do in a general sense, other sins in our lives.

01:29:08

So we've established and we've we can move past that God is not going to take away our salvation from us because Christ earned it.

01:29:18

Christ earned that salvation. We did. And now that we can transition from that and think about it in general, as we do other sins.

01:29:28

Are there physical, material, earthly consequences to our sin?

01:29:36

Yes, there can be and there are consequences and things that we have to deal with and suffer through sometimes because of our sin.

01:29:48

But we have to remember that. The judgment, the eternal judgment for that sin was paid for by Christ and we're secure in him.

01:30:00

Does that make sense? And I want to make sure that we say, guys, too, just because it's not the infernal sin, just because you forgive him does not give you permission to go commit suicide.

01:30:12

It does not give you permission, permission to continue in sin. I mean, that's why we have Romans six. We want to preach the grace of God.

01:30:18

That is a free grace that is not a cheap grace, but it's not earned. It's unmerited in the favor of God.

01:30:25

But do we continue in sin that grace may abound? God forbid. So that's the reason

01:30:31

I'm speaking to this, that if you're considering this, it's not the shortcut.

01:30:37

And there are incredible consequences on the ones left behind.

01:30:43

And for me, unless it is a chemical or medical issue that leads to that, it's the ultimate statement of selfishness.

01:30:52

It really is. And that is putting my will before others is my feelings before others.

01:30:58

It's putting my desires before God's desires, because you think about a long life, the glory of God that you would bring to God in perseverance and standing in the faith, even in difficult times, how that glorifies

01:31:13

Christ versus taking a shortcut. And so so it is, you know, it's a very slippery place, you know.

01:31:22

And so I want to make sure that we're not giving permission to sin either, even though we're saying it's not the impartable and there is forgiveness and there is grace.

01:31:33

But it is never permission to continue in sin. Never, because it is not glorifying to God and it is not edifying to the body of Christ.

01:31:42

And it is a total selfish decision, as most sin is, if not all sin is a self -centered decision.

01:31:51

So sorry, I don't mean to harp on that more, guys, but thank you for being patient with me. Yeah, reach, reach out, reach out because Christ loves you and he and we love you because of Christ and through Christ and because of the work of the spirit in us.

01:32:13

We love you and we want you to reach out if you have any of those questions or thoughts.

01:32:20

So thank you. Thank you, Jonathan. We really appreciate you sharing all that.

01:32:31

Let's see. We've gone an hour and a half and we can save questions for another time.

01:32:38

We've had some consistent viewers and we've had some consistent folks commenting in the comments section.

01:32:45

So I would love to have you guys back if you're willing to do that. We can maybe do it in another month because I know each of us are so busy, but that would be great.

01:32:58

And I think edifying for people who watch before we go and I want to thank you.

01:33:05

I love you guys. I appreciate you guys. Thank you for your participation. But before we go,

01:33:13

Pastor Dale, I would like you to get the gospel. And after he after he presents the gospel,

01:33:22

Jesse, do you mind to close us in prayer? Yes, I would love to. OK, take it over,

01:33:29

Pastor Dale. Well, I would like to say, because I know a lot of people have been listening and we can talk about a lot of things that might be confusing at times.

01:33:40

But the simplicity of it is that all have sinned and come short of the glory of God.

01:33:45

In other words, we've missed the mark. We don't measure up to what the standard is that we are to measure up to.

01:33:53

In Matthew, chapter five, the Lord Jesus, speaking to the religious leaders and the people listening, said,

01:34:01

Be ye perfect as my father in heaven is perfect. Well, the reality is, is none of us can be perfect.

01:34:06

And that was the point that the Lord Jesus was making. He knows we can't be perfect.

01:34:12

And he made provision for that. That's why Christ came. He came to die on the cross to take your sin upon himself so that you might have life.

01:34:22

And the Scripture says, have that life abundantly. What a wonderful truth that is. Jesus came preaching repentance.

01:34:30

We repent of our sin. We turn from our wicked ways. We call on the name of the

01:34:35

Lord Jesus. And Paul told us in Romans that whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

01:34:42

And that is the wonderful truth that Christ came for us, that we might have life, that we might be forgiven of our sins, and that we might spend eternity with him in heaven.

01:34:53

And so I encourage you, wherever you're at, whatever you're doing, if you don't know Jesus Christ as your

01:34:58

Savior, call on him that you might be saved and that we might spend an eternity together in heaven.

01:35:10

We'll turn it over to your brother, Jesse. Father, we thank you. We thank you,

01:35:15

Father, for this time that we have had together. We thank you, Lord, for the beauty and the glory of your gospel.

01:35:24

We thank you that you sent your son on our behalf to die, to die for our sin so that we may be forever in your presence, so that we who are sinful, who are not inherently good, so that we may spend eternity with you.

01:35:44

We thank you, Lord, that you are, in fact, holy and you have called us unto yourself.

01:35:51

We ask you, Father, for our brothers and sisters in Christ who are watching this, that they will be edified, that they will be encouraged.

01:35:58

We thank you, Lord, for the word. We thank you, Lord, that all these men and all these women who are here watching and who have participated, who have not been ashamed of the power of the gospel that is found there in your word.

01:36:13

And we just ask you, Lord, that this day that we rejoice and look forward to tomorrow and we will remember the truth that Christ did, in fact, die on our behalf.

01:36:27

But that was not the end of the story. And we thank you and we praise you that not only did he die, but he rose again.

01:36:33

And not only did he rise again, Lord, but that he is right now seated at the right hand of the father.

01:36:39

And so we praise you for that. And all the issues that are going on in our culture, we ask you that as the church that we will turn to you, that you will give us a passion to proclaim your gospel with clarity and that we will address the issues that our culture needs, the truth of the gospel addressed in a way that brings honor and praise and glory to your name.

01:37:03

Help us to do just that, Lord. Help us to be found faithful in your sight. We pray these things,

01:37:09

Jesus, in your wonderful name. Amen. Amen. Love you guys.

01:37:14

Thank you. And for all you guys watching, remember that Jesus is king. Remember that Jesus is risen and he is king.

01:37:24

And let's go live in that victory. And let's continue to go out there together and proclaim the gospel.

01:37:30

Hope to see you soon. And hopefully we can do another question answer panel in the future.