Mylo Hatzenbuhler Live, Gnosticism, Jonathan Merritt, and the Dangers of Home Schooling

Greetings and welcome to The Dividing Line. My name is James White. Today, at the top of the show, we have to be timely. We have to get... This guy is so hard to get hold of because people all around the world are asking, what does Milo Hotzenbuehler think about everything?

About the weather, about music, and especially about COVID -19. And so we were just very, very, very fortunate to have the opportunity of getting just a few minutes with the great Milo Hotzenbuehler. Let's see if we can establish a satellite communication to the great farmland up north.

Do we... Milo, can we... Do you hear us? Oh, there's Milo now.

Yeah, I do. I was having some water. Can you hear me?

I can hear you very, very well. Earth to Phoenix. That's right. This is confusing to me. Now, Milo, you don't seem as much of a silo as you once were.

Oh yeah, I've been cutting down the weight. It was my wife's idea. It was your wife's idea? Yeah, she wants me to be around longer.

Oh, well, I guess that does have something to do with it. But didn't you sing some songs about trying that and it not working real well?

Well, yeah, that's true. Sometimes it's better than others. Not everything you try in life works. I found that out.

There's some things. I've had winters. Well, now, let's first... We need to inquire as to how you're doing in this lockdown because, I mean, you're used to these huge crowds, adoring fans, signing the autographs, things like that.

It must be pretty tough to just all of a sudden be there in your office.

I know. I had concerts, all of them. I was on the road in South Dakota when this whole thing started to be a deal. I was at the Ag Expo and then the next week I had... Then the cancellations, they started to come.

Milo, we can't have you here. Milo, they shut us down. Things like that. Yeah, I was in Iowa and I watched everything shut down for four days I was in Iowa. Were you stuck there in Iowa? No, we got back, but it took a long time to get through customs.

I'll tell you that. I bet it did. Yeah, and then, so nothing this month and the rest of my concerts left. Nothing next month, too. It'll come back. It gives us time. We're calving on the farm anyway. We just finished calving.

That has its own problems. My wife, Emma, she's out of the commission. Why is she out of the commission? She was going to be on today and sing a duet with me, but she injured her shoulder during calving.

She slipped on the placenta and she's out of commission for a while.

I was just wondering how shoulders are related to singing, but that's okay. I don't really understand all of these things.

It hurts too much. She can't hold music, for one thing. It's tricky, but we're okay here on the farm. We have to stay close to home more than we want to. We're using this, what they call that social distancing.

Yes, social distancing. I don't like the first thing. Our county government, they send out the notices and somebody missed three letters in distancing and it said, you have to all practice social dancing.

So we went down to the hall in town and then there was nobody there. That was a trip to town wasted. But I got our cows even numbered stalls only. Oh, but wait a minute.

Every other stall empty. So is there, but wait a minute. I'm a little confused. I didn't think cows could get the virus. It doesn't matter. Oh, okay. All right.

This is style over substance, they called it.

I think almost all of this is style over substance, but that's another issue.

So I don't know. I'd have to go to the barbershop to find out about that. Yeah, but that's one of them. But I miss my cows. It takes twice as long to milk because I can only fit half as many of them in the barn as usual.

And then you can't touch them either.

Oh, well, then how do you milk them?

Have you seen those ads on TV for that long stick that you use to grab the last jar of sauerkraut when you're a senior citizen? That's what we're using.

That's what we're using. That must really go slowly.

That's tricky. There's a learning curve there, I want to tell you.

In fact, that's so slow. Aren't you getting pretty much just cheese by then?

Well, one of the cows was a little bit annoyed with me. They usually go out this side of the barn, but this one went out that side of the barn just so she could step on my foot. And I'm suffering a little bit today.

You can't see my foot down here, but I got a bandage on. It's big. Oh, man. Emma used her good arm and then bandaged me up.

So a lot of people are really struggling during this time. I mean, 22 million people out of work just in the United States and globally many more than that. Have you seen an uptick in people listening to or playing one of your biggest hits that everyone, I'm sure, has heard, but the Lone Again song?

Oh, that one? Yeah, that's been a big source of intubation for people during all this. Do you know that song? I do. Oh, that's a beautiful song. I could even sing it for you now. I got my band here. You have your band?

Oh, yeah, I got my band. I have a special world debut for you too, Dr. White.

A world debut? Oh, wow.

I wrote a song about the virus in honor of today.

Oh, my goodness. I am truly excited. Well, Rockstar, it's what we do. I know, but maintaining creativity at a time like this takes just a top level. Rockstar,.

Wouldn't you say? It does. On the one hand, you're by yourself a lot, so you get to write a lot. On the other hand, you spend a lot of time looking out the window. Wondering, where's that virus? I can't see it anymore.

You don't want to find it. You really don't want to find it.

We're still going. We're still going. I write my diary, my journal on that thing, that web face blotch. I'm on there a lot and writing things. And I write songs.

I've seen you on that, which means they haven't kicked you off yet, which is good. So you're not overly politically incorrect yet.

The world needs rock stars and the world needs farmers. And I fill the bill on both sides of that.

Thing. As far as I can tell, you're the only one holding those two arenas together in one person. Am I looking okay here?

Yeah, you are. Do I bump through? I got one of my Milo gear t-shirts on. You can see that right there.

I see that. How can people get beautiful stuff like that?

Oh, you're on my website. I was going to make a sign with my website in big letters. I forgot to. Farmboymusic .com.

Farmboymusic .com. Yeah, farmboymusic .com. You can get my recordings there. I got recordings. I'm famous. You can do these digital too. Some people don't like to take up the shelf space. Well, we're going to hope that...

My recordings. I got five recordings.

Five recordings. Okay. We're going to hope that... Albums, they call those. Albums. Let's see if you don't think that's going to recover real easily because we... All of a sudden, some aliens swooped down and grabbed your feed and turned you into Elvis Presley there for a second.

So let me see if that's cleared up at all. I bet. No, it's still sounding pretty bad. So I'll tell you what, why don't you get the band ready? And Rich, what do you think? You want to try to reestablish that or what?

I'm sorry? You mean it's on our side? It's not the connection? Okay. I'm a little confused and so is Milo, but that's okay. Hold on, Milo. We're troubleshooting the audio here and... Am I there at all?

Well, I can hear you, but like I said, you sound like the aliens are interrupting your signal and changing it. We don't need the aliens to do that. So I'm going to see what... You're at a fun party, Mike.

Yeah. Rich, are we going to try to reconnect this or what? Okay. So Milo, hold on. If just a moment, Rich is going to try to get things reconnected there and we'll try to get back with the Strasburg Rockstar.

He has so many names, I can't keep up with all of them. But for those of you wondering what in the world is going on, given the seriousness of all of the programs we've been doing for quite some time now, if you're a new listener, then you've not met Milo before.

And this is the first time that Milo has ever been able to be with us via video. Every other time, I think he's been on with us, I think about three times before. It's always been just by audio. So this is the first time you've gotten to see, for example, those awesome sunglasses, which I would think would make someone dizzy personally, given the shape and things like that.

But Milo and I have known each other for, I'm not sure how long now, it's been quite some time. And as he was mentioning, if you go to farmboymusic .com, you can find his, I think, five CDs that he has done.

And Milo, could we test your sound there for a second? Yeah, is that me? You sound great. The aliens left. Oh, that's a relief. I changed shades again. Rich says that he chased some demons out of the electronics, so I'm not really sure what that's supposed to mean, but we won't get into the theology of that.

Could be Norwegians too, you never know. I was going to ask if the Norwegians and Germans were getting along because of the virus, or are they fighting with one another more than normal? We are united.

We're in this together. The things that unite us are greater than the things that divide us. Except for Ludofisk.

No, there is no forgiveness for that.

Otherwise, if you're not from North Dakota, come here sometime and don't eat Ludofisk while you're here. No, please don't.

That'll be a good trip. It would be very, very good. Yes. So you have a national or worldwide debut for us today? I hope so.

Oh, good. Okay. All right. How's these? I don't know. I'm making wardrobe choices here. Do those look good?

Wardrobe is, yeah. How many sunglasses do you have?

Oh, lots. A rock star like me, you have to keep it loose.

Do you have a contract with Oakley or anything like that?

No. Who's Oakley? I don't know that.

That's okay. That's okay. Anyway, so you have come up with a song about the virus. This could go all around the world. Just like the virus. I could go bacterial.

Viral, get it? I just finished writing this this morning. Wow. Just for you. So I don't have this all mesmerized yet. I might have to look at my words right here.

I think everyone will forgive you for that. Can you read them?

I hope so. I probably shouldn't. I shouldn't face it this way. Somebody might read this and hack me. I don't know how that works.

That's right. But can you read that with your sunglasses on? Just barely. Oh, okay. Because I wouldn't be able to do that. I'm too old.

But I'll be cagey. I'm a pro, so you won't know.

Okay. All right. We're ready whenever you are.

Okay. Hang on. Hang on. I'll be rocking down here. Okay. All right. I brought my goiter, too. Can you see my goiter? What's it called?

Goiter. Goiter. Oh, goiter. Goiter. Yes.

See, goiter. You strum. See, there it is. Yeah. Goiter. Yeah. Yeah, goiter. I'm in my basement office here. I understand. You see the plaque on the wall there? Can you see that back there? I can see it, but I can't read it.

Arbeit macht das Leben süß. Oh. Work makes life sweet. Das ist aber nicht süß. That's our family motto. Arbeit macht das Leben süß.

Grandpa always used to say that. Yeah. That's better than Arbeit macht frei, but we won't go into that one right now.

That's another thing. He's not related to us. That's a different thing. Different family. Ready? Yep. All right. Here we go. This is pretty exciting. I got this. My band is in the background. I hope. Yell at me if this is too loud.

Getting down. Use all my tools here. Fear. Eins, zwei, drei, vier.

Virus is here. No sense taking any chances. Here's a tip from you straight from my farm. Keep yourselves and your livestock alive. On the farm, you've got to stay well. You can't milk cows if you're not healthy.

The county agent said to me, don't shake his hand. No. Because you don't know where it's been. You use hand sanitizer so you don't end up dead. You use hand sanitizer when you're calving. You use hand sanitizer, boy, and don't touch your hand.

It will keep you alive till then. Sanitizer after each shore. Because on the farm, dirt is dirty. Told me milk in a mask. Now my cows don't know. Sanitizer in the field when you spray. Hand sanitizer when you're branding.

Don't, don't. Hand sanitizer, boy, and something else I can't read. Oh, we're keeping the virus away. Hand sanitizer. Want some? Fill up a trough. Dive right in to stay at home. The stores are all out.

So we're using sheep dip. Now I keep those germs out of sight. I got hand sanitizer keeps me sterile. Oh, yeah. Hand sanitizer. Soak my hands every night when the bathroom is foggy. Sanitize, sanitizer.

It makes you wiser.

Sanitizer. The studio audience is clapping as well, I want you to know. So you've got at least three people clapping. In these days of social distancing, that's a standing ovation is to have three people.

I think that's a high for the month for me.

I think it is too. I must congratulate you on having hand sanitizer. I haven't seen it at the Target I shop at for like two months now. So I'm glad you're able to get some.

We bought this one three years ago. We didn't know how much we needed it until this.

Now we're going through it all. That's exactly what we did too. That's been sitting in our kitchen forever. And now it's like, wow, it's great. I don't lie. I don't lie in my lyrics.

Sheep dip works. Sheep dip works. You'll smell funny and don't get too close to the dogs. They'll chase you inside a fence.

Okay, well, I wouldn't have known that because you're the guy that knows the farm far better.

I am the guy who brings a year, a lifetime of experience in farming to the field of frog and roll. That's right. That's right. That's why I can do big hit songs like grain crops keep filling up my shed.

My dog's got rabies to all the cows I milked before. That's a beautiful song. Oh, you couldn't start the tractor. That's a good one. That's a good one. What was the one? Hens with low faces. Was that it?

Okay, that's a good one. I've got hens with low faces because the rooster died and the whole place will have to start from scratch. None of my eggs will hatch. That's a good song. My wife accidentally kills the rooster in that one.

Yeah. By the way, I want to shout out to my wife, Emma. She's watching. She went to the neighbors to watch me on the bigger screen. She made my mask for me. Oh, there you go. Yeah. So I got one of those.

Oh, this is kind of tricky. And there's another. And then I think, I'm not sure. I don't quite have the hang of this yet, but I get my eyebrows are safe. I know that much. I'll figure this out.

It's kind of tough. Yeah. That's not part of your normal get up, is it?

I think she made a metric one, and that's what's giving me trouble.

Oh, you need a statute one, English one, a metric one doesn't fit anybody in North Dakota.

Yeah, but I got me a mask, so I'll be safe. That's great. That's great. It's pretty exciting. I travel when we get to do shows, and this is not lately, but it will. I'll be out this summer, North Dakota, South Dakota.

They left me in Iowa. They left me in Nebraska.

I'm big in Nebraska. You are big in Nebraska. Once in a while, I heard you even get to Minnesota once in a while where I was born. I do. Minnesota's a great town.

I've been there. I have a setting. I brung in my panano here, and there's buttons you push that makes a different noise on there.

One of these even sounds like Minnesota. One of them sounds, yeah, if you say so. Yeah, okay. I haven't been there for a long time, but I know you get to go to Minnesota every once in a while.

We drove through there on our way back from Iowa. I remember. Okay, yeah. There are beautiful people in Minnesota. Well, thank you. Those are my people, yes. And you come from there, so you are a man of quality.

I know that.

So now, Milo, you have a friend who I guess does some of your business management or something like that. He's a little bit shy, I think, and a little bit nerdish. But a guy named Clyde, do you know who I'm talking about?

Oh, him? Yeah. He's a fraud. He's a fraud?

No, I'm kidding. He calls me now and then. He calls me if he can come and open for me. That's what he wants to do.

Oh, okay. But hasn't he done some singing, too?

Yeah, yeah. He paid me a quarter to have one of his albums ready, too. Oh. He has this beautiful album right there. It's not rock and roll, called Prairie Memories, though. It's really pretty. There's a lot of nice songs on there.

Prairie Memories. That's the Clyde guy. That's the Clyde guy. Yeah, that's that Clyde. He sings. He's not rock and roll. No, no. But he has a really nice voice. He couldn't do rock and roll. All his moves are busted already, I find out.

Oh, is he much older than you are? Yeah, he's really old. His social security number is in double digits. Right, I understand.

That's being very old, yes. But he's not hiding around there anywhere, is he? No. No.

I could probably find him. I don't think. He'd come over to watch me. He'd come to make sure I held this up. Yeah, I don't know.

So I was just going to ask him a few questions if he was around. You think you'd find him? Sure. Hey, Clyde. Hey, what are you doing? Oh, man, brother. I just. Greetings. Greetings. It's hard for me to ask serious questions when you've got those, when Milo's doing the rock star things.

Milo's too much fun. He's too much fun. When did you start doing Milo?

It was a college idea. So this is a long time ago. Our very first Milo shows were in 1974. I was in college pursuing a music major and had some friends. We wrote some sketch comedy together, whether it was good or not.

Well, it wasn't a question of whether it was good or not, because it wasn't. An idea that we had that I had kind of carried over from from previous things was a big time rock band, but they were all farm kids.

Right, right. Yeah. And that's so the opposite of what you have these days of everybody being from the big city. Right. And started writing these songs and I was the one doing the songwriting. So after college, I started to get an occasional request.

And one thing led to another. We managed to get a couple of statewide meetings and then started going all over the place from that because people liked what I had. And apparently it was a different spin on things.

When did you record your first Milo album? Nineteen, let's see. Ninety three. Ninety three. Well, to me, that doesn't seem that long ago. But to a lot of people in the audience, it's like, wow, been doing this for a while.

Took me a while to get that done. And I've been recording for 15 years, a little over 20 years now.

Well, now, obviously, I know that you teach voice and things like that up there. Obviously, everything shut down up there like it is everywhere else.

Oh, it's a delight. We're teaching everything online. You try to teach voice lessons online. It kind of leaves something out. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But fortunately, we were far enough into the semester that we got students who at least had an idea what they were doing.

It's a lot of fun. But it's got to be challenging. Yeah, it's frustrating in many ways.

But what are you supposed to do? Yeah, we're all, as I keep saying, we're all in this together, quote unquote.

Yeah, that's right. You can spend your time complaining about how things are supposed to be or else you take what you have and you can follow Teddy Roosevelt's advice and say, do what you can where you are with what you have.

Right.

Well, we're old enough to remember the generation that went through the Great Depression. And I remember my parents talking about, you know, they lived through it as young people. And it always had an impact upon how they lived, how they thought about the world, how they thought about possessions and things like that.

You know, most of the most of everybody below 40 has no earthly idea. The challenges that those generations before us went through. I'm just sort of wondering if that may not change in the future and what that might not might not mean.

Now, you're part of a church up there, too. I imagine most of the churches are meeting online and things like that. Most of them are.

Our doors have been open every Sunday. Really? We've made that known and whoever shows up shows up. Our governor has been a little more lenient. You maybe have heard about the governors of some of these states that haven't been affected as much.

And we have a lot of things shut down, but not everything, thankfully. And we don't have stay-at-home orders. We're encouraged to do what we can.

Right, right. Well, up there, just the population results in natural social distancing anyway.

We don't have subways in North Dakota. Right, right, right. That sort of thing.

So that is a little bit of a help. So how has that impacted the Church, then? I mean, if you're still available, you're seeing maybe some people who have some questions or thinking about mortality and important things?

You would like to think so, but our numbers have been pretty small. I think, once again, people are scared away by this sort of thing. Oh, yeah. It's pretty easy to live in fear. Oh, it is. It is. That's a rough one.

We've had our usual attendance is 125, something like that. We've had about, well, Easter Sunday we had 13 people there. Oh, my. As we get into this business and people are pretty restless and anxious to go back about their lives.

Right. Mostly our regular attenders.

If you had 13 people for Easter Sunday, how did you do the Messiah? Did you have to sing multiple parts concurrently at the same time?

I did sing a song with a beautiful lyric that was a paraphrase of John Newton. It gave us amazing grace. We observed the Lord's Supper and we had a lovely time, just the few of us. Well, I get it.

We have not shut down either. But so many people today are finally, I think, coming to realize that we've had it pretty good for a long time, and most of us haven't been nearly as thankful for what we have had as we probably should have been.

Did you get a chance, I'm not sure, did you see the program we did on Thursday or Friday with Seb Goldswain, the guitarist? I did. I quite enjoyed his playing. Yes, I heard most of it. Yeah, he's a young man that I met down there in South Africa.

And so the thought crossed my mind is that, hey, I'll bet you if Seb's... Down there, I mean, they literally have armored vehicles on the streets. You just don't go out. I mean, that's all there is to it.

So it's more severe than what we have here. But I thought, you know, I'll bet Milo hasn't had a chance to go out and do anything for a long time. So it's not Christmas, and I don't think you've had a new album over the past couple of months or something like that.

But I know we had you on with Prairie Memories when that came out, which is you singing in your real voice, in essence, a number of beautiful songs. I've always wanted to ask, does singing in Milo's voice, is that more or less...is that hard on your voice to do that?

Well, it could be if I didn't know what I was doing. I hope by now I do.

So there's a special way of controlling that? Because I would think that would Couldn't imagine being able to do that for more than just a few minutes before I'd start straining or something.

Even those of us, even those people who are full-out rock singers, who are a lot of the bands that people know very, very well, you develop the proper technique, depending on Can sing in a lot of different styles and still sing well.

You might not be using your voice to its potential completely, but you're still singing well for what you're doing. Think of it as a vocal decathlon with all the different applications for it. I'm classically trained and Milo, of course, is an idiot.

He often sings out of tune and he often sings not very well, but that's something I can still do.

And his sense of direction is just a tad bit confusing as well, I might add.

Ignorance is bliss, and Milo is a very, very happy guy.

Oh yeah, yeah. Well, and the parodies you do, I mean, the one with the people with the license plates from South Dakota, you know what I'm talking about? What am I thinking of?

That is a parody on my album titled Outstanding in My Field. It's a full-length parody of Stairway to Heaven. Stairway to Heaven, that's right. Yes, and it's about a trip to South Dakota, not very far over the border, and there's a town of Lemon, South Dakota, and so Milo and his dad are driving the pickup to Lemon.

I...you know, you've done stuff in the past where...you've posted stuff in channel where you started a parody and then basically ran headfirst into a wall. You know what I'm talking about? Oh yeah, happens lots of times.

What are you ever gonna...do you ever just sort of start looking over your notes and go, I wonder if I can get past the wall on that one today, or...

That's what medleys are for. In fact, I have plans to record this summer. We'll see if that comes to fruition. I have a lot of songs that I've been writing for quite a while. It's been a while since I've been into the studio and I want to

Got parodies of Gordon Lightfoot and the Bee Gees. Oh goodness, lots and lots of stuff. Anything with Carefree Highway? No, Sundown and the Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald. Oh, okay, okay.

Oh, oh, now that's a...you could tell quite a story with the Fitzgerald one. That would be pretty awesome.

It'll be fun, it'll be fun. And Milo, Milo sings, yeah,. The legend lives on in our little hometown. Whether you're coward or hero They say without doubt you should not venture out When the wissibility is near zero.

And it goes on and talks about my uncle Harold, who decides he's going to drive his car to town in a snowstorm. And there's a very fabulous and spectacular wreck that takes six verses to cover.

Six verses to cover the one wreck, wow. It's rather involved.

Mailboxes, cows, the outhouse, he hits some field implements and lots of different stuff.

That will be, I predict, a very big hit for you. The only problem is you have The the who the That would be fighting.

If each one of those buys an album, I'll be very happy. So it's a lot of fun. I write parodies on lots of different subjects, but the ones I like best are the ones about farm. Yeah, obviously.

You've been doing it for a while now. What my roots are. That's right, that's right. So folks can get hold of you and get your albums and stuff like that. Farmboymusic .com, am I correct on that?

That's true. Downloads available, mail orders available, lots and lots of fun. Everything Do they call these? Untouched by human hands when I mail them to you.

So wait a minute, you've got downloads available on mp3 now? You've been catching up with the 21st century.

I'm very slow. We're still working on getting universal streaming. Hope to have that done this summer.

Well, you'll get there. And hopefully you'll see some folks coming by that had never heard of you before. And that'll make your creative time all the more blessed, since you'll have a few more fans out there.

I'll be very happy about that.

Watch out for our next album, I'm hoping, with a nod to the Beatles. I want to call it the Egg White album, and we'll see how that goes. I've got lots and lots of songs. A new one for Milo's wife Emma, and once again, parodies of the people I mentioned.

Also the Beach Boys will be in there, and Billy Joel, and a number of other things. I'd be careful of those Beatles guys.

I hear they're very litigious. So I'm not sure that Milo would know what litigious meant. But yeah, I'd be very careful. It's when you can't move your arm. Yeah, that's right. Well, Milo slash Clyde, thank you very much for joining us on the program today and entertaining us.

And you all stay safe up there. And we've appreciated your taking some time to be with us. Thank you. I'm so glad. Grateful to be on your program. All right. Thanks a lot. God bless, brother. All right.

Bye-bye. That was great. For those of you, again, who are wondering, what? Known Clyde for years and years and years. We used to have a chat channel. I had a chat channel for 20, since 1996, 23 years.

And he was in there probably at least 13 of them, maybe a little bit longer. And so we've had him on the program a number of times. I should have asked him, why didn't, oh, man. Why? I just realized the perfect setup for Milo.

Why didn't I ask him about herd immunity? Herd immunity. That would have, oh, Milo, a song about herd immunity would really be a big hit right now. It really, really, herd immunity. That would, yeah, that would be good.

And you don't even have to give me any credit for that. Herd immunity. That's what you need to do a song. Emma's watching. So Emma will tell Milo about herd immunity. I should have asked about herd immunity.

That would be great. So anyway, there you go. We wanted to do something a little light and there we are. So, oh, goodness, where do we go from here? I just recorded a new sweater vest dialogue. The sweater vest is over there.

I ain't wearing it except during that. I can assure you of that because it's already fairly warm where we are and will be for quite some time. Did you all see? Now, it's not, from this perspective, you can't see it.

I've had, this is from Brill. If you know book publishers, you know Brill is ridiculously expensive. This is the Coptic Gnostic Library. It's five volumes long. I've got two volumes, got volumes two and three here, especially so that I could have the Apocryphon of John here.

Why? I have over the weekend been, well, and before that, as you know, I've been looking at Manichaeism to adequately filter and understand what elements of Manichaeism come from Iranian religion, from the East, from Judaism, Christianity, and then from Gnosticism.

There are all sorts of different kinds of Gnosticism and you have the general Gnostic mythology. Then you have a specifically Christianized version called Valentinianism that originates in the middle of the second century.

Justin Martyr identified Valentinus as a great heretic. Let me just make a comment here. My mind is melting from all the different names and everything that is a part of, and we're going to try to get you all up to speed.

Let me put it this way. It is my intention by the time we get done with the series of studies we've been doing to properly respond to Ken Wilson's Oxford dissertation, it is my intention that if you will listen and you will take notes and you will seek to understand what is being said, you will know more about Gnosticism, Manichaeism, and Stoicism.

Maybe not Stoicism, but Gnosticism and Manichaeism. When we get done, then 98 of seminary students who graduate with a master's degree who took church history. Now, that doesn't mean that they would be focused upon that.

The point is we're going to be going deeper than you would go in a church history class in a standard master of arts degree MDiv type situation in the vast majority of seminaries. If this was covered at all, to be perfectly honest with you, there would be, I think, sadly in many situations, there wouldn't be any covering of it at all.

But one thing that I have been struck with that hopefully will be of benefit to you to think about, the early church fathers, Irenaeus, Justin, you know, I've said for decades that if you wanted to be published in the early church, the way you got published was you wrote a book against the Gnostics, and now I know why.

Now I know why. I've been listening to a class, other than the reading I've been doing, I've been listening to a class. The teacher is very good. The graphics are real good. He is as far to my left as you can get.