Kicked Out Of Charis

Word-Faith Teaching at Karis Bible College

Hello ladies and gentlemen, my name is Justin Peters. I hope that you and your family are doing well today. I want to thank you so much for joining me for this podcast. Well, the title was not clickbait.

I did indeed get kicked out of Karis. Karis Bible College that is led by Andrew Womack, a WordFaith.

NAR.

Prosperity preacher. So this is going to be a bit of a longer video, but I've got a lot in here. I'm going to show you the facilities at Karis. I'm going to have clips from Andrew Womack and some of the other professors or instructors there.

Anyway, teaching show you some of the problems with their theology. Some of what I show you in here will be sad. I'm going to show you some of the wildly unsubstantiated claims that they make and it will be kind of towards towards the end Dish or so last third or so where I talk about how I actually got kicked out of Karis.

So all of that is in here. So please do Stick with it watch it all the way to the end for a little bit of background. I was asked to preach at Highland Bible Church pastored by a really really good guy Jeff Gwynn.

Just a wonderful Wonderful brother. He had me at his church Three years ago in October October of 2019 to do my seminar clouds without water and I did. We went to Karis Bible College there in Woodland Park.

This is literally in the shadow of Pikes Peak. Well, I guess it's probably north just north of Pikes Peak. So maybe not technically the shadow I guess would be more to the east but at any rate Right at the foot of Pikes Peak and so I went there three years ago.

We went in to look around and just kind of, you know, observe and talk to people. Those of you who know me and know of my ministry, you know that my teaching against the word faith movement Is not just an academic exercise for me.

I go to these things. This is my this is my heartbeat to rescue people out of this deception. And so I've been to 18 or 19 Benny Hinn Crusades. I've been to Kenneth Copeland meetings. I've been to Joel Osteen's Church.

I've been to Joyce Meyer Conferences, I've been to Jesse Duplantis and I've been to a lot of these things and I go there to read for research yes, but I also go to get in the trenches and Talk to people and just hear them and listen to them and then reason with them from the scriptures.

So that by God's grace, they would be delivered out of this just horrific word-faith deception and so I went there three years ago. And now about nine months ago I put up a video on my youtube channel entitled my visit to Karis Bible College or something like that I'll put a here's a screenshot of the thumbnail and That's going to play in here in just a second as I go along and I think I know why I got kicked out.

So at any rate, we Jeff Gwynn asked me to come back just this past week and to Highland Bible Church His church and do my seminar clouds without water again, and it's it's it's common. I get asked by a lot of churches Who have invited me in to do clouds without water and then some years later They'll invite me to come back and actually do it again because they have a lot of new people in their church and you know kind of a new crop and people need to hear this and It's a little bit unusual to be asked to come come back so quickly in just three years and do it.

But but he did and and I was of course happy to do it there's such dear dear sweet people there at Highland Bible Church and with them being in the same town as Karis Bible College Andrew Womack's outfit there There's an especially acute need I suppose because Woodland Park is a small town I think maybe only seven or eight thousand people and Karis They have at this point I believe 11 or 1 ,200 students enrolled and so Karis is a Huge influence in this little town.

They have an outsized influence because of the small size of the town that they're in and so he asked me to come back and so I was happy to do that and This past Monday May the 2nd we went to Karis Bible College to look around again.

In fact, it was it was me It was Jeff Gwynn and a few other members there from the church. And this was all kind of pre-arranged I guess you could say Jeff called Karis Bible College and asked if he and some of his friends could come and Look around and they said that yes, sure come on by and so we did and we went through we got into the driveway there the Parkway driveway going into the to this Compound now now this is about as best I can tell is about 500 acres.

This is a massive Massive place the road into the Bible College is almost a mile long you go through this little security guard Gate here. You can kind of check in and so so we did and no problem. We go in there and It's a brand new facility.

They've been working on this for a number of years and it's now completed. I think they will soon be working on some student housing, but the main facility the main auditorium is complete and You just cannot imagine the size of this place.

In fact, I found a video that details kind of gives you a little tour of it. They did this shortly after construction was complete. This is now in fairness I have been told that Andrew Womack lives in a modest home and a couple of different people told me that and so I have I have no reason to doubt that that is true and that he does Stand in contrast at least in that regard to other word-faith preachers like Jesse Duplantis his home.

Parsonage that is 35 ,000 square feet Kenneth Copeland, I think his parsonage is 18 ,000 square feet. Just most of the Creflo dollar has an indoor swimming pool in his home. And so most of these almost all these faith preachers have opulent homes.

But according to what I've been told Andrew Womack does not have that. It's a it's a very modest home and that very well may be the case. But I can assure you there is nothing modest about this Facility about Karis Bible College.

It is extreme. It's huge. Not only is it massive but it is Very ornate top-of-the-line everything. Here's a few clips just to kind of show you What we're talking about.

The Auditorium, Parking Garage, and Ministry Infrastructure

Welcome to a special edition of the Andrew Womack video newsletter. Your source for all of the first looks behind the scenes and inside stories taking place all around the world. I'm third-year media school graduate Jessica Giamo and today We're giving you a special tour of the newest building to our Colorado campus the auditorium.

Now Let's go check it out. Meet the large portico sheer. We can fit four cars side to side and six cars end-to-end on top of heated concrete. That helps keep snow and ice from building up in the winter.

Let's go take a look inside here. We have the reception area of the auditorium building. Andrew and Jamie were personally involved in the design process Including the building materials its mountain decor and even the placement of the Dove logo in the floor.

They also helped design the terrazzo flooring that stretches across 45 ,000 square feet around the building. All of the woods you see is real. Even the posts are wooden logs that have been split in two.

Hollowed out to allow for the insertion of a steel beam and then put back together.

Okay, I want to pause here just for a second and she's right. All of the wood in there is absolutely real and can you Imagine I would love to know just how much that one post costs. It's Unbelievable, even the handrails going upstairs and down the aisles in the auditorium are cut wood.

I mean, this is high-end high dollar stuff.

The concourse has an upper and a lower level and can seat around 1 ,200 people for in-between classes and conference events. One of our Keres Bible College graduates David Larson saved this ministry a lot of money when he designed a virtual tour of this building Enabling Andrew to make decisions on details before construction began.

Andrew even changed the wall colors because of this video and the main staircase was moved over to allow for more space. Through here is our bookstore that has Andrew's teachings as well as materials from our guest speakers.

This also serves as our student services room during the Keres Bible College school year. Andrew designed the two-story waterfall so that the slate tiles would layer a quarter of an inch Making the water bubble and keeping the noise level down.

Its pump runs 24 hours a day seven days a week and draws very little electricity.

So a two-story waterfall and the water bubbles and it runs 24 -7 365 but at least it doesn't use much electricity. So they're they're going green.

There's a saltwater mixture that's used to keep the water clean without giving it a strong chlorine smell. All of the moss rock you see is real and was hand laid by our construction team on site.

I.

Listened to the name of that rock twice. I still couldn't make it out. I don't know what it is, but she said it's real rock. So this this is expensive hand laid. So a lot of labor this is this is high-end stuff high-end construction.

No corners cut here at all.

Behind me is the west entrance to the auditorium and this balcony stretches all the way across the south side of the building. Behind me is our Karras legacy wall that represents just a portion of the students who have gone through Karras and are now out changing Their world.

You may even recognize some of the names. Here's another look at our waterfall from above and Behind it is one of two cafe stations that are located up on the balcony. If you come visit our campus for any of our special events, it's safe to say you won't go hungry.

Here we have another view of Pikes Peak as well as the first phase of our building project called the barn. We also have plenty of overflow seating available as well as television monitors that show what's going on in the auditorium.

Through here. We have our Andrew Womack ministries phone center where we are currently able to have around 144 people taking calls at a time, but most people may not know what all ministry happens in here.

Alongside our prayer ministers We also have people who take crisis calls and customer service calls for people who are needing help ordering product or signing up for Karras.

Did you catch that? She said that we have a hundred and forty four people on staff just answering calls answering phone calls a hundred and forty four people. Sometimes people will say to me one Justin.

Don't you think word of faith is on the decline? It's not as popular now as it used to be. I Wish I wish that were the case but sadly, it's not. This movement is large and it is growing and I tell people if you want to get us an idea of the state of Christianity in The world today then all you need to do is turn on Christian television.

Because all Christian television is is a function of supply and demand. Whatever the demand is that's what they're going to supply. So when you turn on TBN or you turn on Daystar. Who do you see? You don't see John MacArthur.

You don't see Steve Lawson. You don't see Phil Johnson or Mike Riccardi or Votie Bauckham or Jim Osman. You don't see any of those names. You don't see exposers. Who do you see? Joel Osteen Joyce Meyer Joseph Prince Kenneth Copeland, Jesse Duplantis Andrew Womack.

We also have staff who are answering doctrinal questions Responding to emails and social media posts sending out teachings through our prison ministry.

One thing that the word faith movement Unfortunately does really well is getting its theology into the prisons. You just heard her made a wreck. Make a reference to their prison ministry. I have over the years have had two or three opportunities to Present at least a part of my seminar in some prisons in different parts of the country and One of those occasions I was in Texas a prison in Texas.

And the inmates were actually really really nice. But when I left I did my seminar a portion of it and when I left I got a call from the From the chaplain a couple of days later, and he said Justin the trash cans were full.

He said after you left the next day the trash cans were full of Kenneth Copeland books Joyce Meyer books Joel Osteen books. After I came in the inmates saw my seminar they went to their cells or I Guess the sales are not the church or the prison library.

But they went to their cells and they trashed all of their word faith books. So praise the Lord for that.

But.

Word faith theology is huge in the prisons and You also heard her say that they answer doctrinal questions when you call in if you have a doctrinal question.

Don't call Andrew Womack and out the back. We have an entrance to Andrews newly finished parking garage. Andrews 336 ,000 square foot parking garage is five stories tall and can park 1 ,085 cars. There are three outside entrances and exits like this one located on levels 1 2 3.

Now let's take the elevator down to level 2.

Okay, I had to laugh at that that sign that you see there. That's not just a clever. You know take on the handicapped parking signs that you see everywhere. But that is actually the cover of one of Andrew Womack's books.

God wants you. Well, this is a foundational principle foundational teaching to word faith theology. In fact, it is key to its success. So more on that later.

As you walk through the parking garage, you'll notice beautiful murals that have been painted by some of our care of students.

And you'll also notice that they actually do have real Handicap spots now. I know they're probably required to by law but I can't help but find the irony in that is that the place that is renowned for its faith healing and faith healing theology has handicap parking spots.

While this auditorium can seat around 3 ,200 people it was designed so that no matter where you're sitting it still has an intimate feeling. During construction this entire room was covered in scaffolding to allow the crew to put up the white clouds that cover the ceiling.

On November 3rd 2018 Andrew dedicated the auditorium building alongside Kenneth Copeland and Jesse Duplantis as people gathered together to celebrate the miracle of the sanctuary property.

Okay, so we'll let slide her misuse of the term miracle. That facility is not a miracle. Miracle is a term that is way way way overused nowadays, but at any rate. She said that at the dedication to this new Facility Kenneth Copeland and Jesse Duplantis were there.

You know a lot of people don't realize that Andrew Womack is word faith that he's full-blown word faith because he has this down-home persona Southern accent kind of all shucks kind of a you know personality and he comes across as Normal, you know just a normal guy.

Whereas Benny Hinn is anything but normal Kenneth and Kenneth Copeland Jesse Duplantis or anything but normal but Andrew Womack is but but it says a lot about a Preacher as to who he will bring in to preach from his pulpit.

You know, I'm I tell people I'll go and preach anywhere I'll if if the Vatican invited me to go to preach I would do it to be the first and last time I Would preach at the Vatican and be the first and last time I would preach at TBN if by some Miracle they asked me to come and do something at TBN but who you have come and fill your own pulpit says a lot about who you are and what you believe and so they Andrew Womack had Jesse Duplantis and Kenneth Copeland come in.

Jesse Duplantis and Kenneth Copeland are two of the most obvious charlatans. False prophets and false teachers ever to disgrace the name of Christ. I Really believe with Kenneth Copeland and I say this I don't say this with any hyperbole.

I really believe that Kenneth Copeland is demon-possessed. Kenneth Copeland has uttered some of the most jaw-dropping heresies blood-curdling blasphemies. That you could possibly imagine if you don't know what I'm talking about.

You know watch my watch clouds without water. I've got a lot. I've got a small fraction of his blasphemy and here's he Documented it on video, but he is he is truly dark in there. I'll tell you there is something about Kenneth Copeland's eyes.

I hear this from people all the time and there's there's times almost when you can just kind of sense that the demon Coming out. It's a he's truly dark. So don't be fooled by Andrew Womack. He seems like a nice guy.

And maybe at some level he is and we'll talk I'll talk more about. I'll revisit that point at towards the end of this video. But he is every bit as much word-faith as this Kenneth Copeland as this Jesse Duplantis who claims he went to heaven on a cable car and claims that he comforted Jesus.

Blasphemous stuff absolute blasphemy and yet they were the special invited guest at the dedication. For this facility it says a lot. Okay, so let us turn a corner here and talk about how I got kicked out of Karis.

The Question About Healing and John 5

So we came in and we stopped at the front desk there and there's a lady in the man. And we gave them our name said that we had called ahead and we could come in and look around and they were very nice.

And they asked us to fill out a little form and we did that and then we were asked to fill out a name tag. Little sticky name tag. It said Karis visitor and the blank for your name. And so I wrote my name Justin Peters and you're supposed to stick it on your you know, your shirt.

I was wearing a sport coat and those little name tags don't stick well to sport coats. I know that from experience and so I didn't put it on my sport coat but I did put it on the front of my little electric three-wheel scooter right by the handlebar and It was much more visible there actually it stuck stuck really well.

I could barely get the thing off after we left and were kicked out. So there in the front for everybody to see Karis visitor Justin Peters. So I had that on there and the folks at the desk told us that Barry Bennett who is their lead instructor there one of their Chief instructors there was actually doing a class at the time and we could sit in if we wanted to and so We did so we walked in.

He was teaching two classes that morning. We got in about the last 10 minutes of the first class and then there was a little 10-minute break and. So we just stayed there for the next one and we sat there and and ironically as you'll hear in just a minute.

For the second full hour a lot of what he talked about was being was about being Kind and gracious to people who disagree with you theologically at one point. He said they may not be As far along spiritually as you are something like that, but we should be nice and friendly and da-da-da-da-da.

He was also talking about the role of women, which I found very interesting and at one point he said. And I think I have this on audio. But anyway at one point he said that when Paul Wrote in 1st Timothy 2 12 that he does not allow a woman to teach or usurp authority over a man.

But to remain silent. He actually said that the Apostle Paul when he wrote that did not have full revelation at that time. That that was limited to the culture of the day that just reflected the culture of the day and Paul had not yet been enlightened on the role of Women and Paul just didn't know at the time that in fact women can preach and pastor and do all these other things full-blown egalitarian position which is Very common in the word faith movement charismatic movement in general.

Women teach and preach as much as the men do. That's a whole other issue. But to actually say it's like he knows he can't get around the clear meaning of the text. So What he does I said Paul just didn't have full revelation on that.

This wasn't yet enlightened on a subject about which he was writing in inspired scripture Authoritative scripture and yet somehow he just didn't yet have the full revelation. So he was he was wrong. You see you think through the implications of a statement like that and it is Absolutely stunning.

So at any rate towards the end of the class There was time for Q &A they did Q &A and it's much like I was kind of debating myself. Do I do I ask a question do I not kind of like when I confronted Todd Bentley?

I was sitting there like do I really do this or not? And I was like, okay, I want to do it. And so I motored my little electric three-wheel scooter over to the to the young man who was holding the microphone for people asking questions and Sure enough.

I was allowed to ask what turned out to be the final question of the class period and Here is how it went now a friend of mine one of the one of the guys in our little group there. He recorded this. I didn't know he was going to but he did.

I'm grateful that he did. So he recorded this on his iPhone. I think you'll be able to hear me pretty well. Barry Bennett the audio is lower. So I'll put kind of like closed captions or whatever Makeshift so you can hear exactly what he said.

You won't be able to see me because I'm kind of like around the band and I'm low because I'm sitting down on my scooter. So you won't you won't you won't see me, but you will hear my voice. If it is always God's will to be physically healed then what do we do with all the many examples in Scripture Old and New Testament Faithful servants of God who were not healed who were sick and were not.

We could look at my book.

Well, Jesus in John chapter 5. Old Bethesda. That's because they were looking to him and we're following. Say for example, are you gonna argue with me? What are we gonna do? I just like it. Well, I'm trying to answer you.

Okay, okay.

My book.

So that was indeed very quick as the last question. Of course that was allowed for the class period. The bell rang right after that quite quite literally the bell rang. So I want to play this again, and I'll Interrupt in a couple of points to to make some points.

The question I asked just in case you were not able to hear it Is if it's always God's will to be healed Then what do we do with all of the many faithful servants of God Old and New Testament? Faithful servants of God and yet they were not healed.

So that was the question. So let's let's go through this again. If it is always God's will to be physically healed then what do we do with all the many examples in Scripture Old and New Testament Faithful servants of God who were not healed who were sick and were not.

We could look at my book.

So Bennett's response to my question was get my book He healed them all that will answer your question and he has indeed written a book by that title He healed them all and that is one of the common beliefs amongst word-faith folks that Jesus healed Everyone that he never turned anyone down for healing and while it is true that he never turned anyone down It is not true that he healed them all as in every sick person With whom he came into contact that is Manifestly not true.

And when I heard him say that I brought up then the pool of Bethesda. John chapter 5. Well Jesus in John chapter 5. Okay, so Barry Bennett says that the reason that only this sick man who'd been sick for 38 years and None of the other of the multitude of the sick and lame and blind and withered were healed.

Was it was only this fella who was looking to Jesus? None of the others were looking to Jesus according to Barry Bennett, but dear friends. This is a completely untenable position in John chapter 5 the pool of Bethesda.

This was an area just north of the temple mount and you'll see in your Bibles that it is described as having five colonnades or five covered porticoes and This is actually a picture that I myself took of the pool of Bethesda back in 2018 when I was there on a trip to Israel, this is it and you see one of those five Colonnades or porticoes that is still completely or at least mostly intact and some of the remnants of the other ones.

So this is this is where it all happened here in John chapter 5. There was of course back in the day water at the bottom of this. There's not now so. This is it now. You'll notice in your Bible in the last part of verse 3 and then into verse 4.

It says that this and this should be in brackets. Okay. In your Bible says waiting for the moving of the waters. For an angel the Lord went down at certain seasons into the pool and stirred up the water whoever then first after the stirring up of the water stepped in was made well from whatever sickness with which he was afflicted and so the reason this is in brackets is because this.

This phrase this sentence is not in the oldest and therefore most reliable Greek manuscripts so in all likelihood, this is a scribal edition. That some scribe put in there. Kind of like a commentary of sorts.

So it's not part of the original manuscripts and not inspired. So this was not really an angel of the Lord a holy angel that came in trouble the waters. What was going on at the pool of Bethesda is that this was an area of Greek pagan healing the Greeks created a pagan deity of healing known as Asclepius and.

So it wasn't really a holy angel an angel of Yahweh this was a Asclepius that came and troubled the waters supposedly that was the. That was the mythology that was built around this and that's why there were so many of the sick and lame and withered and blind.

Who were gathered around this? Supposed these waters of healing supposedly.

So.

Not not only were the the rest of the multitude not looking For Jesus or not looking to Jesus as he said as Barry Bennett said neither was this guy. They weren't looking to Jesus they were looking for Asclepius, that's who they were looking for.

This guy didn't have any idea Who Jesus was so he wasn't looking to Jesus. He didn't know who Jesus was and lest you doubt that The text tells us very clearly. Let's look at it. John chapter 5. Let's begin in verse 10.

So the Jews were saying to the man who had been healed It is the Sabbath and it is not lawful for you to carry your mat. This of course obviously after Jesus had healed him. But he answered them he who made me well was the one who said to me pick up your mat and walk.

They asked him who is the man who said to you pick up your mat and walk? Now look at this, but the man who was healed did not know who it was. For Jesus had slipped away while there was a crowd in that place.

He wasn't looking to Jesus either. Didn't even know who he was. So, how can you say that the man who had been sick for 38 years was looking to Jesus? He didn't know Jesus from Adam's house cat didn't know who he was he's just wrong flat-out wrong and My question did not sit well with Barry Bennett as we'll now see.

So.

Barry Bennett said are you gonna argue with me? What are we doing here? And I said, I just want an answer to my question. He said I'm trying to answer your question. I said, okay, and then he said get my book.

That was his answer get my book now in fairness. It was right at the end of the class and you heard the bell ring literally. But what was really interesting is what happened after this. Right after the bell rang.

There were several people that came up to me. The first one was a young man by the name of Hudson now this is a picture of Hudson and I've already talked with him and gotten his permission to To show this picture and even include his name.

Hudson came up to me and just an exceptionally nice young man. And he said you're Justin Peters and I said I said, yeah I am. I was kind of initially thinking. Oh, this is probably not gonna be good given the environment that I was in where I was at, but he said I've been watching your YouTube channel for the last couple of months and he was very complimentary told me that he's learned a lot and it's been.

My youtube material has been answering a lot of his questions and he's just and he realizes that there are Some serious problems in the theology there at Karis just a very nice young man. And he actually came to the last night of my seminar at Highland Bible Church he and a friend of his came and and then after that service, we we talked some more and just.

Really now I was really really encouraged. I was not expecting that but really really encouraged. By Hudson and so after Hudson this young lady came up to me. This is a picture of her. One of my friends who was with me was taking these pictures unbeknownst to me, but anyway, I have them now and this young lady came up to me and she said may I pray for you and I said well if you're going to pray for my healing then then.

Thanks, but no, thanks basically I said there's been thousands of people who have prayed for my healing over the course of my life and Said I have prayed for it before but now I am quite content in God's providence for my life and you know, if God chooses to heal me he certainly can but if not.

If I have to live the rest of my life with cerebral palsy, that's fine I've got all of eternity to live without it and some many of you have heard me say that before and I mean it so I declined and I Admit no offense to her, but I.

I'm.

Praying is a obviously a spiritual Enterprise and I'm not going to pray with someone with whom I have significant theological differences and It was of course very evident that she Unlike Hudson. She was fully devoted to word-faith theology.

Very nice young lady, I Engaged her in her arguments as did the pastor Jeff Gwynn. He and I both did. But It was clear in talking listening listening to Barry Bennett and then engaging with a couple of the students that That they're they're not taught.

Well, there there's massive gaping holes in their theology which springs from very flawed hermeneutics. But then After her this other couple walked up. I'm assuming they're a couple as a man and a woman.

Maybe they're not maybe they're just friends or I don't know.

But.

Very very nice and the the lady said She actually apologized. She said I'm really sorry for the way you were treated the way Barry Bennett treated you and and I said Oh, that's you know, that's that's okay I'm you know I said people who were who are teaching bad doctrine don't like to be challenged and that is absolutely true.

But she was she was apologetic. She felt badly for me the way that I was treated. It really kind of like water off a duck's back for me. I Didn't it didn't bother me. What bothers me is that I see all of these students over I guess around a thousand of them or so that are that are?

Being taught bad theology bad doctrine and bad hermeneutics and. But she said she said I have questions too and she said a lot of us do. So there and their their questions are not really being answered.

They're either being You know Dismissed or skirted in some way, but they're there in other words a lot of the students there Have some real questions. They know that things just aren't adding up In word faith theology and they don't add up.

They don't make sense and apparently Their questions are not being answered so that was actually very encouraging to me to to hear that and to see that to know that by God's grace my teaching is making an impact and other YouTube channels polite leader and Chris Roseboro and Stephen Cozart messed up church and Andreas widget hope I'm saying that right brother and others bezel t3 bezel 3t bezel t3.

Some I may be leaving some out. So I don't mean to but anyways these some of the these YouTube channels Mine and others that do some similar work as the mine. They're they're having an impact and So I left encouraged in that regard.

So Praise the Lord for that. But then okay, here's where I got kicked out so after this couple then a security guard came up to me and He said are you Justin Peters? And I said, yes, I am and he said are you aware that you're trespassing and like?

No, I was not aware at all that I was trespassing in so that went into a conversation he asked how did we get in there and I kind of looked at Jeff Gwynn and and Jeff explained that he had called and talked to a lady and gave the lady's name I won't gave the lady's name and said that we can come in.

You know We went past the security guard checked in with him got in went to the front desk Filled out the forms got her little name tags and again My name sticker was sticking right on the front of my scooter there.

And so. But anyway, apparently he said that Dr. Dr. Booten dog. He is the dean of students there at Karis. He's from South Africa, but apparently a year or so ago. He Issued an order an edict or whatever you want to call it that Banned yours truly from Karis Bible College and I had no idea but Kind of in putting the pieces of the puzzle together.