Kicked Out Of Charis

Justin Peters

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00:08

Hello ladies and gentlemen, my name is Justin Peters I hope that you and your family are doing well today.

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I want to thank you so much for joining me for this podcast Well, the title was not clickbait.

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I did indeed get kicked out of Karras, Karras Bible College that is led by Andrew Womack, a

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WordFaith NAR Prosperity preacher. So this is going to be a bit of a longer video, but I've got a lot in here

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I'm going to show you the facilities at Karras I'm going to have clips from Andrew Womack and some of the other professors or instructors there

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Anyway, teaching show you some of the problems with their theology Some of what

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I show you in here will be sad. I'm going to show you some of the wildly unsubstantiated claims that they make and it will be kind of towards towards the end

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Dish or so last third or so where I talk about how I actually got kicked out of Karras So all of that is in here.

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So please do Stick with it. Watch it all the way to the end for a little bit of background

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I was asked to preach at Highland Bible Church pastored by a really really good guy

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Jeff Gwynn. Just a wonderful Wonderful brother. He had me at his church Three years ago in October October of 2019 to do my seminar clouds without water and I did

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We went to Karras Bible College there in Woodland Park. This is literally in the shadow of Pikes Peak.

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Well, I guess it's probably north just north of Pikes Peak. So maybe not technically the shadow I guess would be more to the east but at any rate

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Right at the foot of Pikes Peak and so I went there three years ago We went in to look around and just kind of you know, observe and talk to people

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Those of you who know me and know of my ministry, you know that my teaching against the word -faith movement

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Is not just an academic exercise for me. I go to these things

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This is my this is my heartbeat to rescue people out of this deception.

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And so I've been to 18 or 19 Benny Hinn Crusades. I've been to Kenneth Copeland meetings.

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I've been to Joel Osteen's church. I've been to Joyce Meyer Conferences, I've been to Jesse Duplantis and I've been to a lot of these things and I go there to read for research yes, but I also go to get in the trenches and Talk to people and just hear them and listen to them and then reason with them from the scriptures

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So that by God's grace, they would be delivered out of this just horrific word -faith deception and so I went there three years ago and now about nine months ago

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I put up a video on my youtube channel entitled my visit to Karis Bible College or something like that I'll put a here's a screenshot of the thumbnail and That's going to play in here in just a second as I go along and I think

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I know why why I got kicked out So at any rate we Jeff Gwynn asked me to come back

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Just this past week and to Highland Bible Church his church and do my seminar clouds without water again

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And it's it's it's common. I get asked by a lot of churches Who have invited me in to do clouds without water and then some years later

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They'll invite me to come back and actually do it again because they have a lot of new people in their church

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And you know kind of a new crop and people need to hear this and it's a little bit unusual to be asked to come

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Come back so quickly in just three years and do it But but he did and and I was of course happy to do it there's such dear dear sweet people there at Highland Bible Church and with them being in the same town as Karis Bible College Andrew Womack's outfit there

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There's an especially acute need I suppose because Woodland Park is a small town

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I think maybe only seven or eight thousand people and Karis They have at this point.

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I believe eleven or twelve hundred students enrolled And so Karis is a huge influence in this little town

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They have an outsized influence because of the of the small size of the town that they're in and so he asked me to come back and so I was happy to do that and this past Monday May the 2nd we went to Karis Bible College to look around again.

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In fact, it was it was me It was Jeff Gwynn and a few other members there from the church

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And this was all kind of pre -arranged I guess you could say Jeff called Karis Bible College and asked if he and some of his friends could come and Look around and they said that yes, sure come on by and so we did and we went through we got into the driveway there the

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Parkway driveway going into the to this Compound now now this is about as best

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I can tell is about 500 acres. This is a massive Massive place the road into the

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Bible College is almost a mile long you go through this little security guard

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Gate here. You can kind of check in and so so we did and and no problem. We go in there and It's a brand new facility.

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They've been working on this for a number of years and it's now completed. I think they will soon be working on some student housing, but the the main facility the main auditorium is complete and You just cannot imagine the size of this place

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In fact, I found a video that details kind of gives you a little tour of it. They did this shortly after construction was complete

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This is now in fairness I have been told that Andrew Womack lives in a modest home and a

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Couple of different people told me that and so I have I have no reason to doubt That that is true and that he does stand in contrast at least in that regard

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To other word -faith preachers like Jesse Duplantis his home Parsonage that is 35 ,000 square feet

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Kenneth Copeland, I think his parsonage is 18 ,000 square feet Just most of the

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Creflo dollar has an indoor swimming pool in his home And so most of these almost all these faith preachers have opulent homes

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But according to what I've been told Andrew Womack does not have that it's a it's a very modest home and that very well May be the case

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But I can assure you there is nothing modest about this facility about Karis Bible College it is extreme it's huge Not only is it massive but it is

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Very ornate top -of -the -line everything. Here's a few clips just to kind of show you What we're talking about Welcome to a special edition of the

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Andrew Womack video newsletter Your source for all of the first looks behind the scenes and inside stories taking place all around the world

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I'm third -year media school graduate Jessica Giammo And today we're giving you a special tour of the newest building to our

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Colorado campus the auditorium now Let's go check it out Underneath the large portico sheer we can fit four cars side to side and six cars end -to -end on top of heated concrete

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That helps keep snow and ice from building up in the winter Let's go take a look inside Here we have the reception area of the auditorium building

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Andrew and Jamie were personally involved in the design process Including the building materials its mountain decor and even the placement of the

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Dove logo in the floor They also helped design the terrazzo flooring that stretches across 45 ,000 square feet around the building

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All of the woods you see is real even the posts are wooden logs that have been split in two

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Hollowed out to allow for the insertion of a steel beam and then put back together Okay, I want to pause here just for a second all and she's right all of the wood in there is absolutely real and can

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You imagine I would love to know just how much that one post costs it's

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Unbelievable, even the handrails going upstairs and down the aisles in the auditorium are cut wood

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I mean, this is high -end high dollar stuff The Concourse has an upper and a lower level and can seat around 1 ,200 people for in -between classes and conference events

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One of our Karis Bible College graduates David Larson saved this ministry a lot of money when he designed a virtual tour of this building

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Enabling Andrew to make decisions on details before construction began Andrew even changed the wall colors because of this video and the main staircase was moved over to allow for more space

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Through here is our bookstore that has Andrew's teachings as well as materials from our guest speakers

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This also serves as our student services room during the Karis Bible College school year

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Andrew designed the two -story waterfall so that the slate tiles would layer a quarter of an inch

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Making the water bubble and keeping the noise level down Its pump runs 24 hours a day seven days a week and draws very little electricity

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So a two -story waterfall and the water bubbles and it runs 24 -7 365 but at least it doesn't use much electricity.

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So they're they're going green There's a saltwater mixture that's used to keep the water clean without giving it a strong chlorine smell

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All of the moss rock you see is real and was hand laid by our construction team on site.

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I Still couldn't make it out. I don't know what it is. But she said it's real rock. So this this is expensive hand laid

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So a lot of labor. This is this is high -end stuff high -end construction. No corners cut here at all

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Behind me is the west entrance to the auditorium and this balcony stretches all the way across the south side of the building

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Behind me is our Karis legacy wall that represents just a portion of the students who have gone through Karis and are now out changing their

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World you may even recognize some of the names here's another look at our waterfall from above and Behind it is one of two cafe stations that are located up on the balcony

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If you come visit our campus for any of our special events, it's safe to say you won't go hungry

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Here we have another view of Pikes Peak as well as the first phase of our building project called the barn

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We also have plenty of overflow seating available as well as television monitors that show what's going on in the auditorium

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Through here. We have our Andrew Womack ministries phone center where we are currently able to have around 144 people taking calls at a time

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But most people may not know what all ministry happens in here Alongside our prayer ministers

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We also have people who take crisis calls and customer service calls for people who are needing help ordering product or signing up for Karis Did you catch that?

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She said that we have a hundred and forty four people on staff just answering calls answering phone calls a hundred and forty four people

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Sometimes people will say to me one Justin. Don't you think word of faith is on the decline? It's not as popular now as it used to be.

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I Wish I wish that were the case, but sadly it's not this movement is large and it is growing and I tell people if you want to get us an idea of the state of Christianity in the world today

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Then all you need to do is turn on Christian television Because all Christian television is is a function of supply and demand

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Whatever the demand is that's what they're going to supply So when you turn on TBN or you turn on Daystar Who do you see?

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You don't see John MacArthur. You don't see Steve Lawson You don't see Phil Johnson or Mike Riccardi or Votie Bauckham or Jim Osman.

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You don't see any of those names You don't see expositors. Who do you see? Joel Osteen, Joyce Meyer, Joseph Prince, Kenneth Copeland, Jesse Duplantis Andrew Wallach We also have staff who are answering doctrinal questions

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Responding to emails and social media posts sending out teachings through our prison ministry One thing that the word faith movement

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Unfortunately does really well is getting its theology into the prisons You just heard her made a wreck make a reference to their prison ministry

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I have over the years have had two or three opportunities to present at least a part of my seminar in some prisons in different parts of the country and One of those occasions

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I was in Texas a prison in Texas And the inmates were actually really really nice but when

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I left I did my seminar a portion of it and when I left I got a call from the

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From the chaplain a couple of days later, and he said Justin the trash cans were full

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He said after you left the next day the trash cans were full of Kenneth Copeland books

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Joyce Meyer books Joel Osteen books after I came in inmates saw my seminar they went to their cells or I Guess the sales are not the church or the prison library

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But they went to their cells and they trashed all of their word faith books. So praise the

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Lord for that but Word faith theology is huge in the prisons and you also heard her say that they answer doctrinal questions when you call in If you have a doctrinal question

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Don't call Andrew Womack and out the back we have an entrance to Andrews newly finished parking garage

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Andrews 336 ,000 square foot parking garage is five stories tall and can park 1 ,085 cars

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There are three outside entrances and exits like this one located on levels one two, and three

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Now let's take the elevator down to level two Okay, I had to laugh at that that sign that you see there that's not just a clever

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You know take on the handicapped parking signs that you see everywhere But that is actually the cover of one of Andrew Womack's books.

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God wants you. Well, this is a foundational Principle foundational teaching to word faith theology.

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In fact, it is key to its success. So more on that later As you walk through the parking garage, you'll notice beautiful murals that have been painted by some of our

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Karis students And you'll also notice that they actually do have real

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Handicap spots now. I know they're probably required to by law but I can't help but find the irony in that is that the place that is renowned for its faith healing and faith healing theology has handicap parking spots

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While this auditorium can seat around 3 ,200 people it was designed so that no matter where you're sitting it still has an intimate feeling

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During construction this entire room was covered in scaffolding to allow the crew to put up the white clouds that cover the ceiling

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On November 3rd 2018 Andrew dedicated the auditorium building alongside

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Kenneth Copeland and Jesse Duplantis as People gathered together to celebrate the miracle of the sanctuary property

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Okay, so we'll let slide her misuse of the term miracle that facility is not a miracle

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Miracle is a term that is way way way overused nowadays, but at any rate

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She said that at the dedication to this new Facility Kenneth Copeland and Jesse Duplantis were there

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You know a lot of people don't realize that Andrew Womack is word faith that he's full -blown word faith because he has this down -home persona

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Southern accent kind of all shucks kind of a you know personality and he comes across as Normal, you know just a normal guy whereas Benny Hinn is anything but normal Kenneth and Kenneth Copeland Jesse Duplantis or anything but normal but Andrew Womack is but but it says a lot about a

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Preacher as to who he will bring in to preach from his pulpit You know,

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I'm I tell people I'll go and preach anywhere I'll if if the Vatican invited me to go to preach

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I would do it to be the first and last time I Would preach at the Vatican and be the first and last time I would preach at TBN if by some

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Miracle they asked me to come and do something at TBN But who you have come and fill your own pulpit says a lot about who you are and what you believe

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And so they Andrew Womack had Jesse Duplantis and Kenneth Copeland come in Jesse Duplantis and Kenneth Copeland are two of the most obvious charlatans

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False prophets and false teachers ever to disgrace the name of Christ, I Really believe with Kenneth Copeland and I say this

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I don't say this with any hyperbole I really believe that Kenneth Copeland is demon -possessed

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Kenneth Copeland has uttered some of the most jaw -dropping heresies blood -curdling blasphemies

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That you could possibly imagine if you don't know what I'm talking about You know watch my watch clouds without water.

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I've got a lot. I've got a small fraction of his blasphemy and here's he Documented it on video, but he is he is truly dark in there.

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I'll tell you there's something about Kenneth Copeland's eyes I hear this from people all the time and there's there's times almost when you can just kind of sense that the demon

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Coming out. It's a he's truly dark. So don't be fooled by Andrew Womack He seems like a nice guy

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And maybe at some level he is and we'll talk I'll talk more about I'll revisit that point at towards the end of this video

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But he is every bit as much word -faith as this

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Kenneth Copeland as this Jesse Duplantis who claims he went to heaven on a cable car and claims that he comforted

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Jesus Blasphemous stuff absolute blasphemy and yet they were the special invited guest at the dedication

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For this facility it says a lot Okay, so let us turn a corner here and talk about how

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I got kicked out of Karis So we came in and we stopped at the front desk there and there's a lady in the man

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And we gave them our name said that we had called ahead and we could come in and look around and they were very nice And they asked us to fill out a little form and we did that and then we were asked to fill out a name tag little sticky name tag

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It said Karis visitor and the blank for your name And so I wrote my name

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Justin Peters and you're supposed to stick it on your you know Your shirt I was wearing a sport coat and those little name tags don't stick well to sport coats

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I know that from experience and so I didn't put it on my sport coat but I did put it on the front of my little electric three -wheel scooter right by the handlebar and It was much more visible there actually it stuck stuck really well

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I could barely get the thing off after we left and were kicked out. So there in the front for everybody to see

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Karis visitor Justin Peters So I had that on there and the folks at the desk told us that Barry Bennett who is their lead instructor there one of their

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Chief instructors there was actually doing a class at the time and we could sit in if we wanted to and so We did so we walked in He was teaching two classes that morning.

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We got in about the last 10 minutes of the first class and then there was a little 10 -minute break and So we just stayed there for the next one and we sat there and and ironically as you'll hear in just a minute

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For the second full hour a lot of what he talked about was being was about being

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Kind and gracious to people who disagree with you theologically at one point.

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He said they may not be As far along spiritually as you are something like that, but we should be nice and friendly and da da da da da

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He was also talking about the role of women which I found very interesting and at one point he said

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And I think I have this on audio. But anyway at one point he said that when Paul Wrote in 1st

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Timothy 2 12 that he does not allow a woman to teach or usurp authority over a man But to remain silent

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He actually said that the Apostle Paul when he wrote that did not have full revelation at that time

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That that was limited to the culture of the day that just reflected the culture of the day and Paul had not yet been enlightened on the role of Women and Paul just didn't know at the time that in fact women can preach and pastor and do all these other things full -blown egalitarian position which is

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Very common in the word faith movement charismatic movement in general Women teach and preach as much as the men do

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That's a whole other issue. But to actually say it's like he knows he can't get around the clear meaning of the text.

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So What he does is that Paul just didn't have full revelation on that This wasn't yet enlightened on a subject about which he was writing in inspired scripture

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Authoritative scripture and yet somehow he just didn't yet have the full revelation So he was he was wrong.

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You see you think through the implications of a statement like that and it is absolutely Stunning so at any rate towards the end of the class

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There was time for Q &A. They did Q &A and It's much like I was kind of debating myself.

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Do I ask a question? Do I not kind of like when I confronted Todd Bentley? I was sitting there

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I'm like, do I really do this or not? And I was like, okay, I want to do it. And so I Motored my little electric three -wheel scooter over to the to the young man

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Who was holding the microphone for people asking questions and sure enough. I was allowed to ask what turned out to be the final question of the class period and Here is how it went now a friend of mine.

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One of the one of the guys in our little group there He recorded this. I didn't know he was going to but he did

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I'm grateful that he did So he recorded this on his iPhone. I think you'll be able to hear me pretty well

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Barry Bennett the audio is lower. So I'll put kind of like closed captions or whatever makeshift so you can hear exactly what he said

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You won't be able to see me because I'm kind of like around the band and I'm low because I'm sitting down on my scooter

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So you won't you want you won't see me, but you will hear my voice If it is always

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God's will to be physically healed then what do we do with all the Many examples in scripture hold a new testament of faithful servants of God who were not healed who were sick

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We could look at my book Well, Jesus in John chapter 5

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That's because they weren't looking to him and we're following for example, are you gonna argue with me? What are we gonna do?

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I just like a Well, I'm trying to answer you. Okay Okay So That was indeed very quick as the last question

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Of course that was allowed for the class period the bell rang right after that quite quite literally the bell rang so I want to play this again, and I'll Interrupt in a couple of points to to make some points the question

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I asked just in case you were not able to hear it is If it's always God's will to be healed then what do we do with all of the many faithful servants of God old and new testament?

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Faithful servants of God and yet they were not healed. So that was the question. So let's let's go through this again

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If it is always God's will to be physically healed then what do we do with all the many examples in scripture old and new testament?

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Faithful servants of God who were not healed who were sick and were not healed We could look at my book

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So Bennett's response to my question was get my book he healed them all that will answer your question

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And he has indeed written a book by that title He healed them all and that is one of the common beliefs amongst word -faith folks

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That Jesus healed everyone that he never turned anyone down for healing and while it is true that he never turned anyone down It is not true that he healed them all as in every sick person

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With whom he came into contact that is Manifestly not true and when I heard him say that I brought up then the pool of Bethesda John chapter 5

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Well Jesus in John chapter 5 Bethesda Okay, so Barry Bennett says that the reason that only this sick man who'd been sick for 38 years and none of the other of the multitude of the

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Sick and lame and blind and withered were healed was it was only this fella who was looking to Jesus None of the others were looking to Jesus according to Barry Bennett But dear friends, this is a completely untenable position in John chapter 5 the pool of Bethesda This was an area just north of the

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Temple Mount and you'll see in your Bibles that it is described as having five colonnades or five covered porticoes and This is actually a picture that I myself took of the pool of Bethesda back in 2018 when

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I was there on a trip to Israel, this is it and you see one of those five colonnades or porticoes that is still

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Completely or at least mostly intact and some of the remnants of the other ones So this is this is where it all happened here in John chapter 5

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There was of course back in the day water at the bottom of this. There's not now so This is it now you'll notice in your

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Bible in the last part of verse 3 and then into verse 4 it says that This and this should be in brackets

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Okay In your Bible says waiting for the moving of the waters For an angel the Lord went down at certain seasons into the pool and stirred up the water whoever then first after the stirring up of the water stepped in was made well from whatever sickness with which he was afflicted and so the reason this is in brackets is because this

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This phrase this sentence is not in the oldest and therefore most reliable Greek manuscripts.

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So in all likelihood, this is a scribal edition That some scribe put in there

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Kind of like a commentary of sorts, so it's not part of the original manuscripts and not inspired

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So this was not really an angel of the Lord a holy angel that came in trouble the waters what was going on at the pool of Bethesda is that this was an area of Greek pagan healing the

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Greeks created a pagan deity of healing known as Asclepius and So it wasn't really a holy angel an angel of Yahweh This was

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Asclepius that came and troubled the waters supposedly. That was the

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That was the mythology that was built around this and that's why there were so many of the sick and lame and withered and blind

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Who were gathered around this? supposed These waters of healing supposedly so Not not only were the the rest of the multitude not looking

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For Jesus or not looking to Jesus as he said as Barry Bennett said neither was this guy

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They weren't looking to Jesus. They were looking for Asclepius. That's who they were looking for. This guy didn't have any idea

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Who Jesus was so he wasn't looking to Jesus. He didn't know who Jesus was and lest you doubt that The text tells us very clearly let's look at it

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John chapter 5 Let's begin in verse 10 So the Jews were saying to the man who had been healed

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It is the Sabbath and it is not lawful for you to carry your mat This of course obviously after Jesus had healed it

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But he answered them he who made me well was the one who said to me pick up your mat and walk

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They asked him who is the man who said to you pick up your mat and walk? Now look at this

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But the man who was healed did not know who it was For Jesus had slipped away while there was a crowd in that place

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He wasn't looking to Jesus either Didn't even know who he was

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So, how can you say that the man who had been sick for 38 years was looking to Jesus? He didn't know

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Jesus from Adam's house cat didn't know who he was he's just wrong flat -out wrong and My question did not sit well with Barry Bennett as well now see

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So Barry Bennett said are you gonna argue with me? What are we doing here? And I said, I just want an answer to my question.

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He said I'm trying to answer your question I said, okay, and then he said get my book. That was his answer get my book now in fairness

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It was right at the end of the class and you heard the bell ring literally But what was really interesting is what happened after this right after the bell rang

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There were several people that came up to me The first one was a young man by the name of Hudson now

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This is a picture of Hudson and I've already talked with him and gotten his permission to To show this picture and even include his name

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Hudson came up to me and just an exceptionally nice young man And he said you're

33:09

Justin Peters and I said, I said, yeah, I am I was kind of initially thinking

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Oh, this is probably not gonna be good given the environment that I was in where I was at but he said I've been watching your

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YouTube channel for the last couple of months and He was very complimentary told me that he's learned a lot and it's been

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My YouTube material has been answering a lot of his questions and he's just and he realizes that there are

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Some serious problems in the theology there at Karis just a very nice young man

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And he actually came to the last night of my seminar at Highland Bible Church he and a friend of his came and and then after that service we we talked some more and just Really?

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No, I was really really encouraged. I was not expecting that but really really encouraged by Hudson and so After Hudson this young lady came up to me.

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This is a picture of her one of my friends who was with me was taking these pictures unbeknownst to me, but anyway,

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I have them now and This young lady came up to me and she said may

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I pray for you and I said well if you're going to pray for my healing then then

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Thanks, but no, thanks basically I said there's been thousands of people who have prayed for my healing over the course of my life and Said I have prayed for it before but now

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I am quite content in God's providence for my life and you know if God chooses to heal me he certainly can

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But if not If I have to live the rest of my life with cerebral palsy, that's fine I've got all of eternity to live without it and some many of you have heard me say that before and I mean it so I declined and I meant no offense to her, but I I'm Praying is a obviously a spiritual

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Enterprise and I'm not going to pray with someone with whom I have significant theological differences

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And it was of course very evident that she Unlike Hudson.

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She was fully devoted to word -faith theology very nice young lady

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I Engaged her in her arguments as did the pastor

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Jeff Gwynn. He and I both did But it was clear in talking listening listening to Barry Bennett and then engaging with a couple of the students that That they're they're not taught well, there there's massive gaping holes in their theology which springs from very flawed hermeneutics but then

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After her this other couple walked up. I'm assuming they're a couple as a man and a woman maybe they're not maybe they're just friends or I don't know, but very very nice and the the lady said

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She actually apologized she said I'm really sorry for the way you were treated the way Barry Bennett treated you and and I said

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Oh, that's you know, that's that's okay I'm you know I said people who are who are teaching bad doctrine don't like to be challenged and that is absolutely true

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But she was she was apologetic. She felt badly for me the way that I was treated

36:27

It really kind of like water off a duck's back for me. I Didn't it didn't bother me what bothers me is that I see all of these students over I guess around a thousand of them or So that are that are being taught bad theology bad doctrine and bad hermeneutics and But she said she said

36:46

I have questions too and she said a lot of us do So there and their their questions are not really being answered.

36:54

They're either being you know dismissed or Skirted in some way, but they're there in other words a lot of the students there

37:03

Have some real questions They know that things just aren't adding up In word faith theology and they don't add up.

37:12

They don't make sense and apparently Their questions are not being answered so that was actually very encouraging to me to to hear that and to see that to know that by God's grace my teaching is is making an impact and other

37:30

YouTube channels polite leader and Chris Roseboro and Stephen Cozart messed up church and Andreas widget hope

37:39

I'm saying that right brother and others bezel t3 bezel 3t bezel t3

37:45

Some I may be leaving some out So I don't mean to but anyways these some of the these

37:51

YouTube channels Mine and others that do some similar work as the mind they're they're having an impact and so I left encouraged in that regard, so Praise the

38:03

Lord for that. But then okay, here's where I got kicked out so after this couple then a security guard came up to me and He said are you

38:14

Justin Peters? And I said, yes, I am and he said are you aware that you're trespassing?

38:21

like No, I was not aware at all that I was trespassing in so that went into a conversation he asked how did we get in there and I kind of looked at Jeff Gwynn and and Jeff explained that he had called and talked to a lady and gave the lady's name

38:39

I won't gave the lady's name and said that we can come in You know We went past the security guard checked in with him got in went to the front desk

38:48

Filled out the forms got her little name tags And again, my name sticker was sticking right on the front of my scooter there.

38:56

And and so But anyway, apparently he said that Dr. Dr. Booten dog.

39:02

He is the dean of students there at Karis He's from South Africa, but apparently a year or so ago.

39:11

He Issued an order an edict or whatever you want to call it that Banned yours truly from Karis Bible College and I had no idea but Kind of in putting the pieces of the puzzle together.

39:26

Apparently this he probably made this decision after I put up my First video my visit to Karis nine months or so ago.

39:36

So that's the best I can tell but anyway this was complete news to me and I told the security guard who was very nice and by the way, and I told him

39:44

I said, I'm I'm sorry. I had no idea. This is complete news to me We you know, we did everything by the book.

39:50

Here's my name tag and all that and So he was very polite and he said well,

39:55

I'm you know, almost actually seemed kind of apologetic And he said I'm just doing my job and I said no

40:03

I completely understand and I get that and you're doing your job And he asked if he could escort us out and so he did that I had to stop by the little boys room first, but yeah, and so we and so we walked out and He was very nice.

40:22

So I Will say that everybody that I talked to there was nice.

40:28

They were nice people But they are being taught bad theology bad doctrine word -faith theology is

40:38

Biblically bankrupt It is a false gospel and and I've also heard a number of stories coming out of Karis That are heartbreaking

40:50

There they make the claim that a couple of years ago a few years ago that there was a baby a dead baby

40:59

Raised from the dead at one of their healing crusades at Karis this couple the claim is drove their baby from New York into Colorado and at some point along the way the baby died and the parents brought this

41:18

Baby who was dead up to the platform In Andrew if we could just mention real quickly about the healing conference

41:27

I was gonna want to give a testimony. We just had 2 ,500 people here at our facility and it was it was pretty much full.

41:35

That's what they said I thought it was more than that. But anyway, it was awesome. We saw a little baby raised from the dead

41:43

The baby baby was dead and the mother just came and put the baby on the stage and we prayed in this baby came back to life and in fact just the other day watching their live stream on YouTube One of their one of their professors made reference to the story and said that the baby's lips were blue I mean the baby was dead and then they laid hands on the baby and came back to life

42:08

Just came back to like now folks that I'm sorry That doesn't pass the smell test

42:15

There's no documentation of this the website that reported this story got in contact with Karis and asked them

42:23

They saw this claim and they asked him. Do you have proof of this and Karis finally responded to their emails and said this

42:32

Quote, unfortunately the session with the baby being healed Resurrected not just healed

42:38

The session with the baby being healed was not recorded as the healing occurred when a private panel was taking place at the conference

42:49

I Don't believe that at all That's a lie

42:55

This Daniel Amstutz just the other day talked about this healing

43:01

Listen when that mama from New York brought that baby up during the the healing is here conference

43:08

Man, you remember that Jeremiah, you know several of you were at the gym You were there and we were rolling out healing

43:15

University And she just walked right up this aisle right here and was distraught over the fact that her baby had just died

43:23

During the meeting. Well, we didn't know what had happened. I mean, we just saw this mother coming up with her child

43:29

We thought maybe he had a cold or whatever, you know, well, she comes up here and she she's crying and so Carly was the first person to jump off of her chair and come over here and I did as well

43:42

And I think the whole team eventually came over and surrounded this baby

43:47

But let me just tell you from my experience what happened Okay, because it was all slightly different depending on perspective when

43:54

I saw the baby It was obvious the baby's lips were completely blue and the baby was not breathing

43:59

There was no signs of life whatsoever. And as we began to minister over this baby

44:05

I don't exactly remember what I said or how I said it because it doesn't even matter Honestly, what matters is

44:12

I was simply giving forth what I was hearing in my spirit And I said something along these lines

44:18

I said in the name of Jesus baby breathe You will live and not die and when

44:25

I put my hands on that baby's chest The baby's hands flew up and started breathing just like that Pretty dramatic story.

44:34

Is it not a baby raised from the dead? blue lips not breathing raised from the dead and let's remember that Andrew Womack said there were 2 ,500 people at this conference and Yet, there's no video of this

44:50

How is that possible? I texted Hudson and I asked him if he had heard about this story and he said yes and I said the school has

44:59

They responded to this News article and said that they have no recording of it

45:05

And when I told him if there was no the school claims there's no recording of this Resurrection he said this and I'll read it to you strange

45:13

Not surprising but strange they video absolutely everything there pretty much and when not they still get audio

45:21

And if this was a conference, they certainly would have would have at least three different angles of video

45:29

And he said if it happened there's documented evidence somewhere in that school

45:35

And yet there appears to be none Not only did the school not record it for some odd reason my friends 2 ,500 people there in attendance all of whom have smartphones we live in a day and age in which

45:51

Everyone has a smartphone and they record Everything people record what they have for lunch.

45:56

They record, you know Mid -morning snack or something. I mean every and yet nobody has video or even audio of a resurrection from the dead

46:08

I'm sorry. I don't believe it I don't believe it and until they can prove prove this until they offer some proof

46:16

I stand by my accusation that they are lying about this that Karis is lying and not only that but People being raised from the dead.

46:28

Well, apparently According to Andrew Womack. This is a common occurrence with him

46:35

Listen to this My own son was raised from the dead.

46:41

He was dead for five hours and in a morgue stripped naked with a tote bag on and They called me and Jamie and I just spoke our faith and he sat up and started talking

46:54

Raised from the dead no brain damage no more than he had before And We see blind eyes open we have people there was two people in the production that were in wheelchairs when they came to the

47:07

Bible School and after sitting under the word it wasn't me praying for them as such It was just them learning the truth you know

47:15

Jesus said you should know the truth and the truth shall make you free and When they learned the truth and learned what was rightfully theirs and the authority that they have

47:24

They came out of the wheelchairs on their own and now they were in this production and some of the actors in it

47:30

On and on we could go. I mean we have I Couldn't even tell you for sure

47:36

But I know 30 to 40 people that I know Personally who have been raised from the dead or who have raised another person from the dead he knows 30 to 40 people who were either raised from the dead or Raised someone from the dead 30 to 40 and yet I mean

48:01

Come on, where's the proof? Where is the proof of this there should be at least a couple of these ought to be thoroughly documented

48:13

Where's the proof that is just astonishing and you know when I heard him say that I immediately had a bit of a theological

48:21

PTSD Because there's another guy another charismatic who made almost the exact same claim

48:29

Several years ago back in 2008 in Lakeland, Florida. You might remember him

48:34

Todd Bentley Todd Bentley made the exact same claim He said we had 30 30 or 35 people raised from the dead

48:43

Said that he had proof of it and he was asked by a news organization to provide said proof

48:49

And he couldn't Nary a one Todd Bentley This is a guy who is dark.

48:57

I mean really dark This is a guy who claims that God told him to kick an elderly woman in the face with his biker boot

49:05

Yeah, so he made the same claim Andrew Womack may come across as a all shucks kind of a guy but But he's thoroughly word -faith

49:14

He makes these wild claims About raising people from the dead and knowing people are raised from the dead and yet there is no proof in a day and age when

49:25

Everybody has a smartphone No proof Andrew Womack is no stranger to making some very impressive spectacular claims

49:36

One of which he made in March of 2020 This is when kovat was really getting Ramped up and much in the news and he did a program put it on his

49:45

YouTube channel And you can watch it right now if you would like to go back to March of 2020. You should find it

49:51

Listen to the claim that he made here Instead of having this fear about everybody contaminating me man

49:59

I look at it this way that I've got the supernatural power of God living on the inside of me and if I come in with Sickness I can reach out and touch it them and my healing will be transmitted instead of their sickness

50:10

So Andrew Womack is so confident that he will not only not contract kovat but he's so confident in his own faith that he believes that he can he can reach out and Touch someone with kovat in the healing power

50:25

The virtue will go forth from Andrew Womack into the sick person and that person will be healed

50:34

Really Well, it's interesting that he would make that motion towards Carrie Pickett Carrie Pickett is the vice president or assistant vice president and director of the global training school at Karis is interesting.

50:47

He would kind of reach towards her because from what I was told while I was there Carrie Pickett actually

50:54

Contracted kovat. Well, he didn't just reach out and healer now did he? Barry Bennett the teacher that I asked the question to He got kovat.

51:06

In fact, not only did he have kovat But it's um, I was also told that he had cancer and he was out for much of a better part of a year

51:15

With cancer, so why didn't Andrew Womack just reach out and heal his own instructor his own staff members own

51:24

Employee, why didn't he do that? We've been watching the clip from Daniel Amstutz and as he's teaching on healing

51:32

Look at what he's got on his face Eyeglasses So he teaches that it's always

51:38

God's will to be healed and yet he wears eyeglasses so we are supposed to have enough faith to be healed of muscular dystrophy or multiple sclerosis or cancer or arthritis or Lou Gehrig's disease or whatever it is and yet He's got eyeglasses

51:59

Friends never trust a faith healer who's wearing eyeglasses Good rule of thumb and I was also told by Hudson that kovat ran through the whole school this past January January 2022

52:14

December 2021 January 2022 remember when the Omicron Variant was all the all the buzz and then it ran through the whole country

52:23

Well, guess what it ran through Karis Bible College to just as much as it did in the general populace

52:30

And when I was there the other day, I kind of looked around and I noticed that there were just as many students at Karis Bible College Wearing eyeglasses as what you would expect to find out in the general populace

52:47

Just as many whole bunch of Karis Bible students wearing eyeglasses Why?

52:54

Why? It's supposed to be healed of cancer and muscular dystrophy, but they can't be healed of a little nearsightedness you see

53:03

What the faith preachers preach? Doesn't even work for them And if what the faith preachers preach doesn't work for them

53:12

Then that ought to be a clue to them there just might be something wrong with what they're preaching

53:20

Few moments ago we listened to the Audio of Andrew Womack saying that he knows 30 to 40 people

53:28

Who were either raised from the dead or who raised someone from the dead?

53:34

I've heard the story of this baby that was brought up on the platform raised from the dead supposedly

53:41

Well With that in mind I want to show you the end of the video clip that I've Showed a little bit ago the young lady walking around showing us all the facilities

53:54

There's a short segment right at the tail end of that clip And it's actually very sad, but I want to show it to you in light of the claims that we've just heard from Womack Amstutz and Barry Bennett.

54:11

I take no joy in this. I just I just present it to you as a matter of fact

54:18

With all we've just heard claims of people being raised from the dead 30 to 40 of them

54:26

Watch Robert Ummel nicknamed grumpy,

54:50

I guess Was killed on January the 28th 2019 he was the construction supervisor for Karis Bible College he headed up that enormous construction project

55:03

I heard about this story as I was at Woodland Park at this at this church and Then I googled it and got a few more details so he apparently was killed on site

55:17

In a forklift accident the best I can tell the forklift capsized somehow and crushed him

55:24

I think Medical personnel of course were called 9 -1 -1 and they came and they tried to save his life tried to revive him

55:35

Resuscitating but but they weren't able to he died That is sad from what

55:42

I read. He's a very nice man So I take absolutely no joy and that's heartbreaking thing and I feel for his family

55:50

I truly do and I have prayed for that man's family. I don't know anything about him but dear friends

55:59

Andrew Walnut claims that he knows 30 to 40 people Raised from the dead or who have raised people from the dead claims that a baby dead

56:09

Dead baby was brought up on this platform at his own conference And they raised him from the dead like this this is something that should be happening regularly and Yet it did not happen for this gentleman

56:25

The claims they make are Unsubstantiated what they claim to believe does not even work for them

56:34

It does not work for them fact of the matter is dear ones is that the

56:40

Bible is full of Examples of faithful servants of God who were sick and were not healed

56:49

Moses David it was good for someone 1971 it was good for me that I was afflicted that I might learn your statutes

57:00

Timothy take a little wine for your stomach and your frequent ailments Paul left trophimus

57:05

Sick at Miletus Paul didn't heal him He didn't lay hands on him didn't heal him.

57:12

He healed others couldn't heal trophimus left him sick Paul himself

57:17

Galatians chapter 4 verse 13 and 14 Paul said that he had a bodily illness And Elisha Why I mean there's many others we could cite but Elisha, you know this

57:30

Elisha the great prophet Elisha Second Kings chapter 13 died of a sickness

57:37

He got sick and he died of that sickness And there are many many more we could cite the

57:45

Bible is full of examples of people like this Faithful servants of God who were not healed.

57:51

Do I believe that God still heals people today? Yes, I do But only when it is his sovereign will to do so.

57:58

Is it always God's will for us to be healed? No, it is not God wasn't healing everyone in the days of the

58:04

Bible and he's not doing it today either Sometimes God is most glorified in us

58:12

Not when things are going well, not when our bodies are in tip -top shape Not when there's plenty of money in the bank, not when everything is sunshine lollipops and unicorns

58:22

But sometimes God is most glorified in us when we suffer When we are persecuted and yes when we are sick and yet through the suffering through the persecution

58:33

Through the sickness we remain faithful to Christ and we honor Him Sometimes God is most glorified in us in times like that and friends.

58:45

I cannot tell you How many stories I have heard I have talked in the last number of years since I've been doing this

58:52

I have talked to literally Thousands of people. I have heard from them.

58:58

I've gotten emails. I've gotten letters. I've talked to them in person Thousands that is not hyperbole thousands of people

59:07

Whose lives have been all but devastated by this false theology Who have been told that the reason they're sick is because they haven't done something, right?

59:17

They don't have enough faith. They haven't made the right positive confessions.

59:23

They haven't given enough Money, they haven't sown enough seed into some minister's ministry so they could reap a harvest of healing

59:31

Can't not tell you how many people have told me Justin my mom and my dad were in this movement and my mom and my dad gave their life savings to Kenneth Copeland or to Andrew Womack or to Benny Hinn or one of these others literally

59:48

Giving them their life savings some of them Completely emptied their bank accounts

59:56

Because they were sick because they had cancer and they are

01:00:02

Constantly being told like the proverbial carrot on a stick just a little bit more just hang on Just a little bit more just a little bit more faith just a little bit more positive confession just a little bit more giving

01:00:18

And your healings right around the corner It is a wicked wicked lie this movement has has no understanding of Suffering for the glory of God absolutely not it is bankrupt

01:00:35

When it comes to its theology of suffering it has no provision for suffering for the glory of God Philippians 1 29

01:00:43

For to you not only has it been granted To believe in Christ, but to suffer for his name's sake

01:00:51

That that they have no provision for that. They have no provision for Psalm 119 71

01:00:57

They have no provision for 2nd Corinthians 11 Beginning in verse 23 going God don't have in front of me, but down about verse 30 31 or so I mean look at that Look at the kind of suffering that Paul went through They have no theology of suffering

01:01:14

And it's a shame. It is a real shame Is our healing provided for in the atonement yes

01:01:22

Yes, it is but not all of the benefits of the atonement are promised to be fully realized this side of heaven a

01:01:31

Glorified body is also provided for in the atonement But I don't see anybody walking around today with their glorified bodies

01:01:39

Not anybody at Keres Not anybody following Benny Hinn or Kenneth Copeland Nobody is walking around with their glorified bodies.

01:01:48

Why not? It's been provided for in the atonement, but it's not promised to be realized here and Friends think about this think about this logically

01:02:00

If the sick were really being healed at Keres, and I'm not talking about a psychosomatic healing

01:02:06

I'm talking about a real healing Organic healing I'm talking about amputees growing new limbs.

01:02:13

I'm talking about people being born blind with instant 20 -20 vision

01:02:18

I'm talking about Last stage cancer instantly disappearing.

01:02:24

I'm talking about Lou Gehrig's disease instantly disappearing Mean real healings real healings that can only be explained by a

01:02:35

Genuine miracle a genuine miracle of God like the miracles that we see in the

01:02:40

New Testament those kind of miracles if that was Really happening if the sick were really being healed at Keres if the dead were really being raised at Keres Woodland Park, Colorado Would not be this little sleepy town of seven or eight thousand people

01:02:58

It would be the biggest city in the country You wouldn't be able to pit fit people in there with a shoehorn.

01:03:05

I Mean there would literally be millions of people Flocking to Woodland Park if they were real healings and there was any proof of this happening

01:03:15

Think about it It's not happening it's not true.

01:03:23

I hope this has been helpful for you For those of you who are

01:03:30

Care of students or students of Valor Christian College or Rayma or ORU or something like that and you're being told that it's always

01:03:40

God's will to be healed I know a lot of you watching right now. I know you have questions. I know you do

01:03:46

The Bible has answers, but what you're being taught is not biblical It is not biblical and it's gonna do you an awful lot of harm and it's gonna do

01:03:55

If you teach this to others, it's gonna do them an awful lot of harm it distorts the gospel no provision for God's sufficient grace or strength made perfect and weakness

01:04:09

I know you have questions and for anyone who is watching this right now in the

01:04:14

Woodland Park Area if you have questions, I would come in to you

01:04:20

Highland Bible Church Pastored by Jeff Gwynn I will put a link to his church down below in the description and he has told me and I saw him interacting with Hudson and It just thrilled his soul to talk to Hudson.

01:04:35

So I'm Anyway, if you're in that area and you have questions, I could come in a Highland Bible Church to you good church

01:04:42

Taught by good solid men biblically qualified men. So all right dear ones

01:04:49

The true gospel dear ones is not about health and wealth The true gospel is this is that you are a sinner.

01:04:56

I am a sinner. We have all broken God's laws We have incurred the righteous Holy wrath of God and if we die in our sins

01:05:05

We will very rightly and very justly go to a very real place that the Bible calls hell But God has made a way for you to escape his wrath

01:05:13

He sent his son Jesus Christ to this earth fully God fully man and Jesus laid his life down on the cross.

01:05:21

He had done nothing wrong. His life was not taken He gave it and on the cross this perfect person offered his perfect life as a perfect sacrifice

01:05:31

To perfectly satisfy the perfect wrath of God Died on the cross three days later bodily raised from the dead proving himself to be who he said he was

01:05:41

God in human flesh and if you will repent of sin and place your trust in Christ and what he did on the cross

01:05:48

He will save you if you will come to Christ in that godly sorrow that the

01:05:53

Apostle Paul describes in 2nd Corinthians chapter 7 a godly sorrow in which you truly grieve over your sin if you will come to Christ and Grieving over your sin as much as you want to save you from hell

01:06:05

You should want to save you from sin if you'll come to Christ Seeking a Savior not only from hell, but from sin itself

01:06:13

He will save you you will pass from death to life And on this earth, we're not promised money.

01:06:21

We're not promised healing. We are promised persecution We are also promised his sufficient grace his strength made perfect in our weakness through the short vapor of a life

01:06:32

And in heaven, we are promised to enjoy Christ for all of eternity

01:06:38

That is the good news of the gospel. If you will come to Christ, he will save you

01:06:44

Thank you very much dear ones until our next time together May the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ the love of God and the fellowship of his