The NOW Podcast: The Pastor's Prayer Life

Sovereign Grace Family Church

Subscribe

Download

Share

00

00:01

Welcome to Not Only Water.

00:04

This podcast is dedicated to providing practical advice for new pastors.

00:08

In 1st Timothy chapter 5 verse 23 Paul tells Timothy to drink not only water but to use a little wine for his stomach's sake.

00:16

This short piece of practical advice is the inspiration for this series.

00:20

Get ready to dive into today's topic.

00:23

Here's your host Keith Foskey.

00:26

Welcome back to Not Only Water.

00:28

Practical advice for new pastors.

00:30

My name is Keith Foskey and I am your host.

00:33

And we have a first on the podcast today.

00:35

I have a guest with me on Not Only Water.

00:38

My fellow elder Andy Montour.

00:41

I know his name.

00:43

I do know his name.

00:45

My fellow elder and friend.

00:46

I was trying to think of that.

00:48

And brother in the Lord Andy Montour.

00:50

Andy thank you for being here.

00:51

Thank you for having me.

00:52

Yes I'm glad you're here and we've been talking about doing this for a while so I'm glad you're able to come up today and we get the opportunity to record.

00:59

And what we're going to talk about today is the subject of prayer and how we are to manage our prayer life as a pastor.

01:10

And one of the things that the Bible tells us and is that early on in the ministry of the Apostles they had to choose men in the church to help because they were being pulled away from their primary duties to serve tables.

01:28

And we see this in the early chapters of the book of Acts.

01:31

And one of the things that they said is that they can't neglect the word and prayer for the serving of tables.

01:38

And what that tells us about, if we if we extrapolate that out and point it to the work of pastors and elders, that tells us that our primary duties in the church are preaching and prayer.

01:50

And so when early on in this podcast I talked about the relationship of what our duty is as pastors.

01:58

Our primary duty is to preach the word.

02:00

Paul tells Timothy that as well.

02:01

But to be able to preach the word effectively we have to be men of prayer.

02:06

And so I've asked Andy to come in today and talk about prayer with me and just have a conversation about this.

02:10

But before I do that I want to ask Andy, can you give our audience a little history of how you came into the ministry and how long you've been serving the Lord? Sure.

02:20

So I became a Christian in 1978.

02:26

I was not alive.

02:27

I know that.

02:31

And in 1984-85 I became a deacon in a Reformed Baptist Church.

02:40

Had some opportunity to teach and and then was given the opportunity to preach at times.

02:47

And in 1990 I was ordained a minister in that Reformed Baptist Church in New York.

02:55

And I have been, I always been, bivocational.

03:01

Although now by God's grace I've been able to retire.

03:04

Amen.

03:05

But yeah, amen for sure.

03:08

And then we moved down to Florida in 1992.

03:13

I passed at a church down in Middleburg for 12 years.

03:19

And I've been with you and and Sovereign Grace for six years.

03:23

So I guess that's that's a short thumbnail sketch of how I became a minister.

03:29

Absolutely.

03:30

And that's a long time of serving the Lord.

03:32

That's wonderful.

03:33

So in those years of experience, I'm sure that you've learned some of the things to do and some of the things not to do.

03:41

More things not to do than things to do.

03:45

We often learn by experience the things that we would say, I wouldn't do that again.

03:49

Absolutely.

03:50

Yeah.

03:51

Well when it comes to the subject of prayer, I know that there are books that have been written about this.

03:57

There are many, even more podcasts and videos and all kinds of things that have been put out on the subject of prayer.

04:04

And we may not break any new ground today.

04:06

But on this particular subject, I was hoping to be able to pick your brain about maybe some of the things that I've done and some of the things that you've done that you feel have been successful.

04:14

And when we say successful in prayer, the first thing is actually praying.

04:19

Because it's so easy for us to wake up in the morning with a thousand things on our list and make that the priority.

04:27

And prayer becomes secondary.

04:29

We don't even think about prayer because we're so busy getting to the list.

04:33

Right.

04:34

Especially at being bivocational where, you know, I had four children and work a full time and pastor in a church.

04:42

And even down when I was down here in Middleburg, having to do the bulk of the teaching and preaching.

04:49

Although the kids were older, it really can become very stretched out.

04:56

You have to be really careful with your own soul to maintain yourself.

05:01

Because if you don't maintain yourself, you're certainly not going to be effective in the ministry.

05:07

And whether it's preaching, teaching, or even just ministering to the flock.

05:12

Yeah, absolutely.

05:13

And that brings up a good point.

05:14

Because oftentimes we think about praying for other people.

05:19

But really, prayer is not first and foremost supplication on behalf of others or intercession, but it's our communion with God.

05:28

Yeah, you know, I've often thought about that because early on in the preaching and teaching and in the ministry, I guess I was kind of consumed by the fact of, and I'll say it this way, praying the alphabet.

05:47

Where we pray from A to Z, we pray for everyone and everything, and then we're exhausted in that sense.

05:55

Or we're so stretched out that we forget that really the maintenance of our own soul is that which I believe is primary.

06:04

In the work of the ministry, I think I mentioned this to you that Martin Luther, if I'm correct it was Martin Luther, when somebody had asked him, could you describe what the ministry is? And I believe Luther said that it was made up of three things, prayer, meditation, and temptation.

06:24

Which I've always remembered that, whether he's the one that actually said it.

06:28

But nevertheless, I began to realize that if I neglected my own soul in prayer, and I spent all my spiritual energy at a given point on the other issues of life, that I was useless.

06:49

That it really wasn't effective in the way that I knew I had to be concerning others.

06:55

And I think that's something that, for a young minister, that he needs to be careful over, that we...

07:04

I'll put it to you this way, and maybe it'll be understood, maybe not.

07:08

I began to pray about praying.

07:11

Okay.

07:12

Honestly did.

07:13

I began to pray about, am I praying the right way? Am I praying, in that sense, in the right order? And especially being, as most pastors are with families, and even if they are not bivocational, there's still those issues that they're pulling away, and it's very important, I believe.

07:41

And I've kind of experienced it in my own walk with the Lord to, not in a self-story, but pray for me first.

07:53

Because I found that that gave me...

07:57

it opened doors.

07:59

It opened doors in my soul.

08:01

And I think sometimes we get so sidetracked, again, praying the alphabet, praying for everyone and everything, that we neglect the importance of maintaining our own souls before God.

08:15

Yeah, absolutely.

08:17

It's funny you say praying A to Z, because one of the things that many ministers do, and I know I've done this, and I imagine you have too, is you just pull out the directory.

08:25

Yep.

08:26

And so is that what you mean when you say A to Z? You know, right? You look at the Adams family, and then the Bell family, or whatever, you go through the ABCs, and you know, you stop at every one, and before you know it, you've been praying.

08:39

And it's a great thing to do, to pray for your people, but you know, you maybe have, rather than focusing on something, you've sort of been scattered and everything.

08:47

And not only that, in the sense of going down a directory, which sometimes you would almost feel guilty if you didn't do it, like you neglected your responsibility, but also from the reality of praying for what's in front of you, which again, being bivocational and being drawn from different ways, to understand it as a minister, that we really need to focus on what's in front of us.

09:20

Again, not discounting what could happen down the road, and how we would handle this, or how we would handle growth, how we would handle a situation here, a situation there, but actually asking God, in that sense, for grace, for understanding, for what's immediately in front of us.

09:43

Because again, to be really effectual, we have to be effectual in the situation that we're in, and as the situation changes, certainly we need to expand that.

09:52

But I think that was one of the things that helped me, was to kind of stay focused on what it is that I need to accomplish today, or what is I need to accomplish in the next week.

10:06

So not sending these long-term prayers out for what could happen in ten years, and you know, I think what the Prophet said, he said, don't seek great things for yourself.

10:19

Take the things that are right in front of you, that God brings to you in his providence, deal with those, and then as those things become settled, or those things become in the past, then move on to other things.

10:34

And I think that is helpful, again, for a young minister where you feel like it's you against the world, and you need to make sure that you've got every single thing zipped up, you know, lined out, know what you're gonna do.

10:51

Doesn't work out that way.

10:53

Yeah, no, absolutely.

10:55

When we, I know that this has happened with me, I want to ask you your opinion.

11:01

When we come to the church and we say, you know, how can we pray for you? Oftentimes it seems as if the things that are given to us are almost distractions, more than, because you just mentioned, you know, just being distracted and not being focused on the most important thing.

11:20

And I hope that whoever's listening to this knows that I certainly don't say this with any intention to be hurtful, but sometimes it's like, you know, can you pray for Aunt Zelda's pinky toe? You know, which is, you know, there's nothing wrong with praying for Aunt Zelda's pinky toe, but that becomes, oftentimes that becomes like, when we get to get together for prayer, we're not praying for the main things, we're not praying for the real issues, we're praying for all of the, you know, and certainly people with cancer, people with sickness, they need prayer, but oftentimes we get bogged down.

12:00

Yeah, and when you begin to, when that begins to take place, again, you lose focus.

12:08

You lose your focus and there's also the reality, if someone asks me to pray for them, I'm gonna pray for them, right? So if somebody asks to pray for Aunt Zelda's toe, I'm gonna pray for Aunt Zelda's toe.

12:22

Sure.

12:22

But at the same time, again, I think that's where, especially as a minister, we have to be careful to, as you brought up, even as the Apostles said, the focus has to be on the teaching and the preaching, and then counseling and the other things that come with it, but again, if we neglect our own souls and the needs of our, I will say it this way, we need really to work in prayer on our own souls that we might become more dependent upon God, and I think that's something that we all struggle with because we have that desire that still remains in us to want to be independent or to think, God, I got this, I don't need you for this, but I need you for that, and I think one of the keys for a young minister especially is to pray, immerse themselves, this is why I'm a Baptist, by the way, because I think we have to immerse ourselves in prayer, not just sprinkle, but to immerse ourselves in prayer, to be dependent upon God for everything, because certainly we don't know what tomorrow is gonna bring.

13:35

So I do think that that's an encouragement to all of us, but especially someone who's now in a position to, especially as God blesses, and a flock begins to grow, or a body begins to grow, and now all of a sudden you begin to think about things, and you begin to think that I can do this, and I can do that, and I think we really need to settle our souls first in dependency on God.

14:02

Yeah, it's funny because you mentioned Martin Luther earlier, another quote that I believe is attributed to him was when he said, I have so much to do this morning, I'm gonna have to pray at least three hours just to get it all accomplished.

14:15

Yeah, I've read that about him, that he gauged his prayer time in the morning dependent on what he knew that day would bring, so if he knew the day had great issues in front of him, he would back up his morning prayer time, and I've actually tried to follow that principle, and I believe it's helpful, especially for a minister who, again, has the charge of others, but also can never forget he has the charge of his own soul.

14:47

Keep your heart with all diligence for out of it flow the issues of life.

14:53

Now being bivocational, was your regular prayer time in the morning? I know Brother Mike, our fellow elder, he tells me in the morning he gets in his paint truck and he goes to wherever he's going to work, and he reads his Bible and he has his time in the morning.

15:08

Was that your normal routine? It was after a while.

15:14

Not in the beginning, because again, at that time I would almost wake up at two o'clock in the morning and go to work.

15:21

And then, you know, especially when the kids were younger and their needs were greater, and growing out of sneakers every three months.

15:30

You know what I'm talking about.

15:32

So there wasn't as much time allowed for that part.

15:37

I have come to realize how precious that morning time is, just to, I use the term, wake up in the Lord.

15:51

You know, rather than just, I'm out the door in two minutes and, you know, I'm in a good world.

15:57

But I've also learned that that is where I start, and then all day, and I really think that's where sometimes we lose sight of where prayer is.

16:08

Prayer really, in a great sense, is communion with God, right? So we're laying out specific petitions and specific issues, just like Daniel did, open the window three times a day.

16:20

But at the same time, I think we have to develop that intimacy.

16:26

And, you know, and even when we had our spring conference and I was tasked to preach about prayer, and I likened prayer to oil in an engine.

16:34

And I've always thought that way because, again, oil in an engine keeps the impurities from clogging up the gears and everything, and you can tell I'm not a mechanic.

16:47

But it also keeps the engine from seizing up.

16:52

And I do think that's an important aspect for us, especially as those that are being called to serve in a body that we, again, have that appointed time.

17:04

But not, okay, Lord, I'll see you tonight when I get home.

17:08

That it just kind of walks and talks with us along the way.

17:12

Something that happened with me relatively recently, but I've always had my prayer times.

17:18

But something recently that's happened, I guess, within the last couple of years is I wake up in the morning, and oftentimes I wake up before my eyes open.

17:29

I don't just wake up and my eyes open.

17:32

As you know, I'm not a morning guy.

17:33

I'm an evening guy, and I do a lot of meditation, prayer, and stuff late at night because kids are in bed, wife's in bed.

17:40

But I found myself, as soon as I wake up in the morning, even if my eyes aren't open, to try to immediately put myself in the presence of God in prayer before my feet hit the floor.

17:50

And that became a new thing.

17:51

Like, before my feet hit the floor, I want to talk to God.

17:55

Even if it's just to say, Lord, thank you for waking me up.

17:59

No, no, I agree.

18:01

I've kind of, especially, particularly of late, you know, as I'm retired now and have more time, I find myself in my own prayer life, especially in the morning, just confessing sin.

18:14

Confessing thoughts, confessing dreams, confessing, you know, and I, again, that's why I say I've never thought about confessing a dream.

18:24

Again, that's really thought-provoking.

18:27

Well, it is because you really, we're responsible.

18:30

I mean, we can't just say the devil made me do it.

18:33

Flip Wilson is gone.

18:35

He's gone.

18:37

But I do spend somewhat of that morning time setting, trying to set my soul right.

18:45

You know, if we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves and we confess our sins, he's faithful.

18:50

So I, especially as of late, as I said, in the last year or so where I've had more time, I find myself in the morning, giving that time to setting myself straight and then being able, I have found that my prayer life has been sweeter because of that.

19:10

Yeah.

19:10

So, again, that's, it's just, prayer is just, to me, is so important in the life of not only of every child of God, but especially...

19:20

Especially when you're tasked with shepherding God's people.

19:21

Absolutely.

19:22

Because if you're not right, you know, it's...

19:25

Yeah, no, I'm with you.

19:29

Earlier you said this, you said when someone asks you to pray for them, you do pray.

19:34

And I know that some ministers keep a prayer journal, and over the years I've sort of been, I'm gonna be honest, I haven't been the best at keeping a actual one journal.

19:43

I do a lot on my phone.

19:44

I put information on my phone.

19:46

A lot of times I'll stop and pray for the person right there.

19:49

If a person says, hey, I need you to pray for me, I'll step to the side, I'll put my hands on them, you know, pray for them right there.

19:55

But in your experience, what has been the most successful in that regard? For me personally, the journal has been very helpful.

20:04

Okay.

20:05

And I did it many years ago, and I've not done it as much lately, but I would keep that diary, if you will, because I found that it increased my faith.

20:19

Because again, what I prayed for on the first of the month, let's say on the 30th of the month, I went back and I saw what I prayed for, I had forgotten not only what I prayed for, but they got it and answered it.

20:31

Yeah.

20:32

And then I found myself confessing, not giving thanks for the thing I prayed about.

20:37

So I did use that, I do think it's helpful.

20:40

I actually suggested it in our study with the adult study not too long ago.

20:47

And I also did it at Set Free as I was there when I challenged the guys to try it for a month.

20:52

Not try it in the sense of give it a shot, but record your prayers for a month.

20:58

Go back and see, and you will be amazed, and you will be settled in your mind to see how God is so faithful to us in the things that we ask for, and in the things that he knows we shouldn't know to ask for.

21:13

Amen.

21:15

What does James say? You ask and you receive not, but you ask and miss.

21:19

Ask and miss.

21:20

All right.

21:21

One final thing I wanted to mention, especially for the ministers who are considering not only their own prayer life, but also their public prayer life, because we are tasked with preaching and praying before men.

21:35

And we know we're not to pray as a performance.

21:39

Sure.

21:40

But praying before people, I think we would agree, maybe we wouldn't, but I think we would.

21:44

Praying before people is different than praying by yourself.

21:46

Absolutely.

21:47

Yeah, because you're praying for them, you're praying with them.

21:50

Corporately, it's different.

21:51

And I have a mutual friend, or I'm actually, I say mutual friend, I'm not sure if you know him, but he's a pastor friend who you would know if I mentioned his name, that he writes out his prayers for his public proclamation, and tries to include scripture, and does a lot of things.

22:12

And he's really an advocate for that, writing out your public prayer.

22:15

Have you ever done that? Because I never have.

22:17

I have never done that.

22:20

I would say I do pray about public prayer, my public praying, but not in that much detail.

22:30

But I do seek in public prayer to be mindful, more mindful, of less of me, and more of them, in that sense.

22:43

And that doesn't mean, as you certainly know, when we alternated our pastoral prayer, I find myself sometimes going off that mark, and praying about my own stubbornness, and my own hard-heartedness, and my own coldness of spirit.

23:03

But then I begin to realize, well, that's where everybody else is at too.

23:07

Because we're not all that much different, none of us.

23:11

We all fight the same issues.

23:14

Keith, I've never written down prayer, and I'm not sure I would be comfortable doing it, because again, that's just not...

23:21

And everybody's different.

23:22

Yeah, I would say it's not me.

23:24

Yeah, absolutely.

23:28

I'm sure you're familiar, I know you love the Puritans.

23:30

Do you ever use, in your personal prayer or anything, the Valley Vision, or any of that? I've read through them.

23:42

Watson does some good stuff with...

23:44

Spurgeon does some good stuff with morning and evening.

23:48

Here's what I have found, and I found it a long time ago.

23:52

Again, my Christian experience now, almost 45 years.

23:57

I'm 42, by the way.

23:58

Yeah.

24:01

But I have found the Psalms to be so effective in my own soul.

24:08

Because really, the book of Psalms is a book of prayer.

24:11

And to see...

24:14

I use that more as a, in a way, as someone who would use morning and evening.

24:20

Yeah, I got you.

24:21

And that's wonderful, using Scripture.

24:22

Right.

24:23

And not only does it give me that, allow me to enter into the experience in the prayer, but it also helps me understand doctrinally.

24:34

Because again, there's so much doctrine within that, and that's really the cool thing, right? That prayer is really connected to doctrine, and doctrine is connected to practice, and practice is connected to worship, and it just goes on and on and on.

24:49

But I would say that's probably what I have used more of as devotional, if you want to, in that realm, is the book of Psalms.

24:56

Yeah, and I think that's wonderful advice.

24:58

If you, as a person, are looking for a source to deepen and widen your prayers, there's no better source than the Scriptures.

25:06

Yes.

25:07

Anything else, the Valley of Vision, or Spurgeon, or any of those other sources are always going to be less than what you get from the Word of God.

25:15

I've been recently...

25:17

I don't know if you've noticed, I've been trying to incorporate more Scripture into our benediction prayer, where we end the service.

25:24

And I was at another church where they did that, and they ended their service by reading the last portion.

25:30

I think it was 2 Thessalonians or something, but it just felt so powerful to end with this ending benediction of the Apostle Paul.

25:38

And I said, wow, I think that would be good, because we always...

25:40

Because you can't go wrong, right? That's right.

25:42

That's right.

25:43

On safe ground.

25:46

It is the one perfect time of the service, is when we're reading God's Word.

25:50

Absolutely.

25:51

Absolutely.

25:52

Well, I want to say this as we begin to draw to a close.

25:54

These are 20-minute episodes, and we've gone a little bit past 20 minutes now.

25:58

I want to say, first of all, I appreciate you being my brother, and being my fellow elder, and my friend, and I appreciate your wisdom.

26:07

I've joked a little about our age difference, but I appreciate the length of service that you've provided to the Lord, and the wisdom that you bring, and our ability to share together, and bounce ideas off of each other, and grow with one another.

26:22

And I would just say the age difference to me is an asset, because as you age, as you get a little older...

26:31

And if you're a little older, you'll understand what I mean, I believe.

26:35

You begin to lose some things, and to have someone younger with you in the war, to say, is very helpful, because as you get a little further on, it becomes a little harder to kick the engine over.

26:58

And again, you know me, brother, you know I have great desire, but at the same time, the provoking of someone...

27:07

And that's why I believe in plurality of elders, not that we're talking about that, but nevertheless.

27:11

Well, I want you to come back and do this again, so maybe we'll talk about that, because that is, in regard to pastoring, that is something that a young minister, especially a young minister who doesn't have that, and raising that up in a church, it would be a difficult thing to do, that had never experienced it, but I've seen it done.

27:29

And it's a beautiful thing.

27:30

It is a wonderful thing.

27:31

So thanks for having me.

27:33

Hey, thank you, brother Andy, for being here on Not Only Water, and thank you, listener, for paying attention to us, and giving your time to this podcast.

27:42

I appreciate it, and I want to encourage you, if you're watching this on YouTube or on Facebook, please take a moment to like and subscribe.

27:49

All that does is help us reach a wider audience, or if you know someone specifically that you think that these commentaries will help, please pass this on.

27:59

Just send the link out, and if you have a question that you would like me to address on a future episode, please send it in to calvinispodcast at gmail.com.

28:10

Thank you for listening to Not Only Water.

28:13

My name is Keith Foskey, and I've been your host.

28:16

May God bless you.