A Blast from the Past, Marian Devotion, the Book of Abraham

Alpha & Omega Ministries

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00:28

Well, greetings, welcome to The Dividing Line, welcome to 2025. It's hard to believe that we are a quarter of the way into the next century.

00:43

For some of you youngins, you don't remember the last century. And, my goodness, we are getting close to,

00:58

I saw someone post this this morning, so it's not original, but only a few more years in the 1980s, 1980 will have been 50 years ago.

01:11

And Rich and I just sit here going, I remember it so well.

01:20

I still have a pair of pants in the back of the closet. Well, you don't, but yeah, you got to remember,

01:29

Rich was the John Travolta of Prescott.

01:37

I mean, he was he was staying alive. Yeah, well, my goodness, and I'm just I'm just cackling, honestly, at the

01:53

Babylon Bee once again. They just put out and I cannot believe this.

02:02

There it is. Tesla Cybertruck voted worst vehicle by National Association of Terrorist Car Bombers.

02:12

Great picture of the Tesla truck that the Cybertruck they tried to use to blow up the front of the

02:23

Trump hotel there. And as someone pointed out, didn't even flatten the tires.

02:30

That's that's that's pretty impressive. Evidently, its side metal is substantive, mainly because those things weigh so much.

02:43

They're just so ridiculously heavy. But yeah, and evidently the guy they've arrested was a

02:50

Green Beret. The guy drove it and parked it there. What? What?

02:58

What do you mean he's dead? They just did a news conference talking about the corpse that's inside it.

03:05

Oh, inside. Well, OK, the guy he's he's dead. The only thing they know for sure is that they found military

03:11

ID and a passport inside the vehicle. They have not actually identified that that's who he, the body is.

03:18

Well, that's just it. OK, I heard that he was the one that parked it. So I know why in the world would anybody still be in it?

03:25

That doesn't make any sense. He committed suicide inside and then set it off. So he must have lit the fuse and then done the rest.

03:32

Yeah, it didn't work out too well. But yeah, something tells me,

03:38

A, this is the best advertising Tesla has ever had for the Cybertruck.

03:44

Um, everyone's going to want one now just so you can hide in it. And if somebody's shooting at you, it's going to bounce off.

03:53

And B, they'll never be used again. Nobody, nobody in their right mind.

04:00

I suppose if, you know, if he did commit suicide, you know, he wanted to go out in style. So, you know, actually, you know, they seem.

04:08

If I were to draw a truck, it would look like that. And that ain't saying much. I'm pretty sure there's a picture of something

04:17

I drew in fourth grade that looks somewhat like that. Yeah, pretty much. Pretty much. Yep. That's that's what it looks like.

04:24

No two ways about it. Well, anyway, that just popped up and I thought, yeah, that would that would fit the 2025.

04:31

I'm probably talking louder. I forgot my hearing aids again. I hate that. Thankfully, I will get to go home.

04:37

We've got a church thing this evening that I hopefully I'll get a chance to go home and throw them in. Because things just sound so weird.

04:46

Wow, a lot of strange stuff going on. Don't worry, today is not the day

04:51

I'm going to let everybody know. I did you see what I mentioned on Twitter yesterday?

04:59

I said I'm thinking about doing a program, a program talking about doing debates and doing debating.

05:08

And how you prepare and how you take notes during the debate and how to do timing and what

05:15

I use and stuff like that. Lots of folks were really, really interested in that.

05:21

And so I'm going to obviously do more than just I'm going to let people know when we're going to do it. We'll do it here pretty quickly.

05:27

Not like it takes a whole lot of prep on my part, but we'll make sure everybody knows. So if you want to watch live or something like that.

05:36

And one of the reasons I wasn't going to. I'm not going to do it today. Is because this just arrived.

05:45

So I wasn't planning on doing this, but literally I was walking out to my truck, which is not a

05:51

Tesla Cybertruck, by the way. And. The delivery guy was walking up the driveway.

05:59

And so I signed for it and picked it up. So this is the Remarkable Pro. I had the

06:07

Remarkable 2. Now, I do have to, I will tell you this, because this will just take away time from when we talk about the debating stuff.

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I first saw the Remarkable 2. I didn't have the first one. But I first saw it when

06:26

Jeff Durbin brought his to church to preach from.

06:32

And he had just gotten it. And so I'm looking at this thing and I'm going, that's pretty cool.

06:38

Now, I had I had been trying to use my iPad to take written notes.

06:47

And it just it just didn't feel quite right. You know, it just didn't it wasn't like you were writing.

06:53

It was you know, you had a. Funky little pointer thing on a digital screen, you know, and that that's sort of hard to write with.

07:04

This seemed so much more natural writing wise and stuff.

07:10

So I was pretty impressed. So we got one. And ever since I've used it in all my debates, except for the big long trip at the beginning of this year when

07:20

I left it at home. And I had to make do with the iPad. Which was just it was distracting, really was that was that wasn't smart.

07:32

I do things like that. And I could have had my wife pack it up and ship it to me and all that kind of stuff.

07:41

I don't know. That seemed like a little excessive. Anyway, sometime in 20 back in 2024.

07:51

I saw that they were coming out with this, which is a color version.

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The remarkable two was completely black and white, sort of like a, you know, like a

08:05

Kindle paperwhite book reader type thing, very similar screen as far as the look goes.

08:11

And I thought, well, that's I thought about it, but I was like, you know, I don't use it all the time.

08:16

That often I use it when I'm traveling and I'm doing debate stuff, but. And, yeah, it's got a color screen now.

08:24

And so I was thinking through, I was thinking, no, especially when

08:29

I'm taking notes, being able to quickly switch over to a red or a green or a blue or something to circle something to bring my eye back to this might be really useful.

08:41

That would be worthwhile. And this one that I got comes with a board, a keyboard on it, which

08:52

I haven't really learned. I just like I said, I literally have it charging over here. So I will be able to type on it, though.

09:02

I will tell you that. I'm trying to do that during the debates that I had with Jimmy Akin and Trent Horn.

09:16

I don't know, it's it's maybe it's just teaching an old dog new tricks, but I'm a fast typist.

09:24

I'm not as accurate as I used to be, but I thankfully took typing in high school.

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I was one of the only guys in the class. Boy, were we the smart ones. Learned on the old

09:37

IBM Selectric. Oh, yeah, that was that was a great, great piece of equipment. But I don't know.

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It's just easier for me to print. I don't I don't my cursive was never very good.

09:49

My printing was always very good. So that's just easier for me. But be able to switch colors real quick, circle something, switch back.

10:00

That that could be an advantage. We'll find out. I've got at least one debate schedule. I'm trying to drum up a few others here in the spring at some point.

10:10

So we'll talk about more about that. But obviously, one of my one of the things

10:15

I want to talk about is the tools. What timers I've found that are the best and things like that, because that's so vitally important to, well, at least the way

10:26

I debate. Obviously, not nearly important as important to some other people that I've debated.

10:34

OK, lots of stuff going on. Obviously, I was just I saw it when it first came out, but the video of the attack in New Orleans, one of the videos from the street that really is,

10:58

I just saw it again just now, really is sobering. Is, you know.

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You see these people in the street and then you see them start to run. And there are three people right in the middle of the street.

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And they don't react as fast. And so they start to run. And there is a young woman in this group.

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And you can tell she really doesn't know what's going on. Everybody's just running and screaming. And she starts running the same direction, the trucks.

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Trucks coming this way. She starts running this way. The trucks doing 60 miles per hour. You. I even saw someone mentioning anything like that happens, go lateral, head toward a building, something.

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You don't you don't stay in the middle of the street. And that truck hit her doing 60 miles per hour.

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There's no way she has to have been one of the 15 that died. It's just not possible that anything else could have happened.

12:01

And so there you are. 3 .15 in the morning. New Year's Day.

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And you went out there to have some fun and had no earthly idea that in a matter of hours, your life would be ended.

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And we don't think that way. And some people would say that we shouldn't think that way.

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Uh, but the Bible tells us to teach us to count our days, but we might present to you a heart of wisdom.

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That's Moses's psalm. And, um, it's, um, that is true wisdom.

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It really, really is. And yeah, it does make all of us just go.

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You know, you see the picture of them photographing the ISIS flag that they allegedly, anyways, pulled out of the truck.

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And at the same time, people are going, well, we're not sure it's terrorism. Okay, um, problem is just briefly, um,

13:13

I mentioned this yesterday. I don't know that I got much in the way of comment from it because I don't think people want to hear this.

13:19

Uh, but it's, it's true. It, um, it takes a lot longer to repair a mess than it does to make a mess.

13:33

And this nation for the past four years has been eviscerated from top to bottom.

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And you can't fix that in four years. And I just don't think that the

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American electing populace has the patience to recognize that just because someone gets elected to office or a party gets elected to office, that instantly things change.

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Damage, fixing damage takes a tremendous amount of time. Our military has been thoroughly compromised.

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Um, this is a dangerous world we live in right now. No toys about it.

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And the, the ripping at the very fabric of the culture, that does not heal easily.

14:30

And I would say the only way that it really can heal long -term, um, is to abandon the invasion of secularism that eats, it eats at the fabric of any human civilization for the obvious reason that secularism is how you live in something other than God's world.

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But this is God's world. So secularism can't tell you how to live in this world. And, um, so we're going to be, um, it seems to me that the current regime, so utterly corrupt.

15:23

So just, I mean, we don't have a president right now. We don't have a vice president right now. We have no leadership. Um, the world knows that and they're taking advantage of it, but they seem to be just trying to burn everything down as they're running out the back door.

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Um, and I think they're leaving a whole lot of, uh,

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IEDs, um, behind them. And I don't mean that physically though, who knows, but legal, economic, military, they're going to do everything they can to take down the next administration to try to hamstring it and get back to their dismantling as quickly as possible.

16:10

Um, sorry for the realism, uh, but that's just, just the way things are.

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And, um, I think the next 19 days or something like that, I mean, the, uh, the commutation of sentences, what they just did with the masterminds of 9 -11.

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These folks absolutely detest the United States of America. They absolutely detest it. It's, it's amazing.

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Uh, I did, when I got in, uh, Rich showed me a card that had been sent,

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I guess the PO box probably, uh, from, uh,

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Doreen Volo. Doreen Volo, uh, sent this on the 18th day after my birthday, actually.

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And she included a handout that she found, like probably looking through some boxes or something.

17:05

And it is, um, the Pope, how biblical and ancient is the papacy, a

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Protestant versus Catholic debate, Tuesday, April 21st, 1998, 7 .30

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PM. A picture of me there, still have hair. Um, not much, should've gotten rid of it a long time ago.

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And, um, but yes, uh, my debate with Mitch Pacwa on the papacy,

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April 21st, 1998 at the Coral House, uh, Catering Hall, Baldwin, New York, 13 bucks at the door.

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And on the back is this, did you look at this schedule? I'm like,

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Chris tried to kill me. This is what Chris would do, man. He'd just run you from pillar to post.

18:02

Wow. I mean, this, this, this has stuff from Thursday, April 16th, which probably means

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I flew in on the 15th, um, through Sunday, April 26th.

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So 11 days, there is not an open day in there. There is not an open day in there.

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North Shore Baptist Church, one, two, four times, man, poor Ed Moore, four times at North Shore Baptist Church, twice at the

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OPC Church in Franklin Square, of course, uh, Bill Shishko. And then the night before the debate,

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Grace Gospel Church in Patchogue, Tuesday night's the debate at Coral House. The next two nights,

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I'm back at Grace Gospel Church in Patchogue. And then twice on Friday in the morning,

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East Williston Baptist Church, in the evening, Hope Reform Baptist Church, back to East Williston on Saturday in the morning,

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Grace Reform Baptist Church, Merrick on Saturday night, and morning and evening, twice in the morning, and then once in the evening at Grace Reform Baptist Church on Sunday night.

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And then you, you take what's left of me and pour it onto the plane and ship it home.

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I, wow. I could, I could no longer, I couldn't do that for Lovner money.

19:30

Uh, not anymore. That's way too much. For all those trips, I'll bet you never actually got to see

19:35

New York City. Well, no, no,

19:41

I, I didn't get to go up, uh, the Empire State Building. Um, or did

19:48

I? Now that I say that, now I'm thinking about it, but I may be thinking about a movie. Um, but I think it was 99 that we did, um, the, the

20:00

Twin Towers. I did, I did go up the Twin Towers. So, um, yeah, maybe even been the year before that.

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So it wasn't all that long before they came down. Um, so that was a little creepy, but no, no, no.

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We did a few things. We saw a river dance on Broadway.

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Um, that was, that was pretty cool. Um, and the stuff like that, but that's true.

20:27

That's true. Um, anyway, so yeah, I thank you for sending that.

20:32

That just reminds me of how much energy I used to have. I don't have anymore.

20:39

Wow. What a schedule. And, um, yeah. And keep praying for Chris.

20:44

Chris, uh, dealing with, uh, um, congestive heart failure and, uh, blood clots and stuff like that.

20:52

So pray to the Lord, lift him up and give him strength. Uh, okay. So got through those, uh, so many things to address.

21:03

Um, I don't want to go back through right now. Some of the, uh, developments, uh, over the past few days since our last program,

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I am collecting, uh, screenshots and, uh, and things like that to address those things.

21:22

Uh, it is disappointing, uh, troubling to see how much, um, simple dishonesty, uh, there, there is to have to be dealing with in, um, in social media right now.

21:44

Uh, let me just, I'll say one thing. I, I asked this question in the last program.

21:51

I've asked it over and over again on, um, on social media. The, the narrative that's being spun out there is that the only reason that I or anybody else have, uh, glommed on to the

22:12

Calvin Robinson stuff is because he's speaking at the defeating trash world conference that Joel Webbin's putting on in April.

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And so I've had people saying, this is just, this is just based in hatred.

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Um, James White hates Joel Webbin. And so James White's trying to do this and that and the other thing.

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And I'm like, look, I don't hate Joel Webbin. I think Joel's doing some going, going the wrong directions really fast.

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Uh, and I've tried to warn him off of that.

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He's not going to listen. So time will tell. My, has nothing to do with hatred and everybody's going, you're such a hypocrite.

23:08

Um, that, that, that guy, uh, he, he, Calvin, he was, uh, he was up in Moscow and, uh, you didn't say a thing about it.

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I didn't know about it. I had no idea. Um, when the thing that triggered all this stuff was someone screen tapped a young guy named

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Anthony. I don't know if that's his name or not, but it goes by had said on Twitter that the thief on the cross was saved through Mary's prayers.

23:50

Now, uh, oh, rat. I was going to grab it and I forgot. Unless I, did

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I leave it in here? No, I guess I didn't. I went in there to get it and I ended up grabbing a different book.

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And then, you know, it all leaks out your brain these days. I was going to grab the glories of Mary, uh, by Liguri, uh, and read you some of it.

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But you all will be happy that I won't do that. Probably we'll do it next time. But I wrote a book in 98, um, called

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Mary, another redeemer question mark, because at the time there was a lot of speculation that possibly John Paul II would define the

24:35

Marian dogmas relating to Mary as co -redemptrix, co -mediatrix, co -adjutrix for the people of God, so on and so forth.

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Uh, in the year 2000, that didn't happen, but there was a lot of speculation.

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And so I wrote a book and I introduced people to the various Marian doctrines that have already been defined as dogmas, what their background history was, how, especially the last ones that have been defined, immaculate conception and bodily assumption are just utterly disconnected from church history, scripture, everything else.

25:12

They are the clearest example of the fact that Rome is not limited by scripture and tradition, by any stretch of the imagination, um, in her definition of dogma.

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So, uh, this is, we've, we've, the first debate, uh, that we did on, um, yeah, it wasn't the first debate.

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I think the first debate we did on Long Island with Gerry Matotix was on Marian dogmas. Yeah, yeah.

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That was, uh, that was a super high speed, long debate that night. But first debate

25:47

I did there on Long Island and the Great Debate series is on, um, Marian dogmas. Um, only

25:54

Babas and Genes has had the guts of any other Catholic apologist, um, to debate some of the later dogmas fully, such as bodily assumption.

26:06

Um, everybody else realizes there's no sense doing that because these are dogmas that are very much completely based upon the authority of the

26:16

Roman church. That's where it came from. It doesn't come from history. It doesn't come from scripture. You're not gonna be able to do anything with that. Um, so you're, you gotta go someplace else.

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Fully understandable why they would, uh, not want to do that. So we've dealt with this issue many, many times.

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We have engaged numerous Catholic apologists over the years in written form and other places.

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Um, and so when you see

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Calvin Robinson saying, based and Mary -pilled, so he's promoting the statement that the thief on the cross was saved through the prayers of Mary.

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And I've talked to at least two Catholic priests who both said the same thing.

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Speculation. Scripture says nothing about that. Somebody on, on, there was a priest on Twitter this morning.

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It says, I've been a priest 43 years. Scripture doesn't say anything about that. It's pure speculation. Okay. Um, but it fits with Liguri.

27:31

Uh, it fits very much with the Marian piety of Alphonsus de

27:38

Liguri's, Liguri's of Mary. And if you go, well, that's just, who's that? He's a doctor of the church. There are only a certain number of people have been made doctor of the church and Alphonsus de

27:48

Liguri is one of them. And the last time I looked anyways, his book had gone through 800 editions.

27:57

Okay. So this is not, remember when I told you the story of, uh,

28:04

WEZE in Boston, when I did the radio program with Jerry Madetix, which if you're

28:12

Eric and Cantor counted for four debates, but yeah, yeah.

28:18

Um, but we, we did a program and I, I read a prayer to Mary again, it's in the other room.

28:28

Um, and what are you looking for it? If you know where the Roman Catholic section is, it actually wouldn't be difficult to find.

28:36

And the little blue prayer book would probably be right, right next to it. I bet. Uh, Rich just ran into my office.

28:43

And, um, if he knows where the Roman Catholic section in the library is, he might be able to, might be able to find it.

28:49

But, um, um, and that's, you know, I read this prayer from this little book and I expected

29:00

Jerry Madetix to go, oh, that's just, that's just piety. And his response floored me, his response after, and this is the one where I entrust my soul to you, protect me from the world of flesh and Jesus, um, all the rest of this stuff.

29:17

And, uh, his response was, I, my, my prayer is that someday you will pray that prayer with me.

29:26

And I, that's when I really started to get the idea. There's at least the book part.

29:31

Yep. There we go, man. Look how old, look at, look at how yellowed it is.

29:37

Goodness. Um, so here's the glories of Mary, Alphonsus de Liguri. Um, yeah,

29:45

I, it's just so much easier to do this with these on anymore.

29:57

I just got to get used to this. That's just all there is to it. I could actually read my old Bibles if I, I just,

30:05

I just randomly opened the book and found a place that I had marked. And then he adds that when the mother goes to seek a favor for us from Jesus Christ, whom the saints calls the golden altar of mercy at which sinners obtain pardon, her son esteems her prayers so greatly and is so desirous to satisfy her that when she prays, it seems as if she rather commanded than prayed and was rather a queen than a handmaid.

30:39

Jesus is pleased us to honor his beloved mother who honored him so much during her life by immediately granting all that she asks or desires.

30:49

You see how it's pretty impossible to put any of that together with, well, the sovereignty of God and eternal decree, you know, deep biblical theology.

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At the command of Mary, all obey, even God. Saint Bernardine fears not to utter this sentence, meaning indeed to say that God grants the prayers of Mary as if they were commands.

31:20

And hence Saint Anselm addressing Mary says, and by the way, there's, there's a lot of fraudulent citations in Roman Catholic writings, especially in regards to early church fathers, stuff like that.

31:34

So just because he says something is said doesn't necessarily mean that it was. And hence,

31:41

Saint Anselm addressing Mary says, O Lord, O Most Holy, Our Lord, O Most Holy Virgin, has exalted these to such a degree that by his favor, all things that are possible to him should be possible to thee.

31:57

For thy protection is omnipotent, O Mary, says

32:02

Cosmas of Jerusalem. Yes, Mary is omnipotent, repeats

32:08

Richard of Saint Lawrence. For the queen by every law enjoys the same privileges as the king.

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And as he adds, the power of the son and that of the mother is the same. A mother is made omnipotent by an omnipotent son.

32:28

And thus says Saint Antoninus, God has placed the whole church not only under her patronage, but even under the dominion of Mary.

32:40

I just, I didn't have it in here. I was going to grab it. Rich brings it in, open up to a random page.

32:47

And what do you get? That. Now, this one, like I said, is, this is an older one.

32:59

Fourth reprint revised. And this one's 1931,

33:12

I'm not sure when the printing of this specific one was. It doesn't seem to be.

33:19

It was all nine bucks, actually, back when I bought it. Wow, I must have bought this at the Catholic bookstore. That's interesting.

33:27

But again, hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of editions.

33:33

Of this particular book have been printed since it first it first came out.

33:42

And so, yeah, it definitely represents a very broad and deep stream.

33:48

Yes, sir. Oh, I just wanted to make it on record that I'm still upset all these years later that you made me sit there with that book and double check all of your quotes for Mary, another redeemer in that thing.

34:03

It. Well, I had. Why didn't you?

34:09

I still all these years later have no words for what I read. And it haunts me forever.

34:15

Well, I had to read the whole book and mark all those passages anyway. So there you go. So what was

34:26

I saying? That this. This is not something new to us.

34:32

We've been dealing with this for a long, long time. And. I don't think the vast majority of.

34:42

Well, I'm not sure what percentage of Roman Catholics have read something like that, but the

34:48

Marian devotees, the ones who take their Marian. Holidays and feast days and all the rest of this stuff seriously, they know all about it.

35:00

And Calvin Robinson on January 1st, this big thing about Mary and the

35:07

United Kingdom is her dowry and very much into all this type of stuff.

35:15

So all I did. Is I see this.

35:22

And I'm like. This really surprised me. Why? Because when

35:29

I had seen him during COVID, he was an Anglican, first of all. And he was saying very conservative things.

35:38

And that's why he was becoming popular is he was going against the stereotype. And I assumed, and I think a lot of other people assumed as well.

35:50

I think folks up in Moscow assumed the same thing I assumed. And that is if you've got someone from the

35:57

UK saying conservative things, they're probably theologically conservative. In other words, they're sort of in the

36:04

J .C. Ryle, Anglican mold of things. Justification preaching, solo scriptura believing.

36:16

Anglicans who are focused on biblical theology more than they are things like Marian dogmas and issues like that.

36:28

And so that was my assumption. And so when I first saw that,

36:34

I made some comment on Twitter. And then people started mentioning, well, what are you going to say about Moscow?

36:42

And I'm like, what about Moscow? I didn't know he'd been over there. And then somebody sent me a link to Doug and friends episode that he was on.

36:54

And I was like, oh, well, I didn't know about that. That's interesting.

37:01

Now, my understanding is they recorded more. And there's discussions going on right now as to whether that's going to be used.

37:10

Because I think the same thing happened there that happened to me. We had one idea.

37:16

And then you start digging a little deeper, maybe doing some talking. And all of a sudden, it's like, oh,

37:22

OK. So, by the way, just so people know,

37:30

I don't know if you saw, did you see, Rich, that the second in command at the

37:37

Stone Choir cult has announced to the world that I and James Lindsay have the same source of funding.

37:45

Did you know that? Yeah. Yeah. And I've caught myself a few times thinking about responding to that.

37:53

Oh, I did. I posted it as an example of how clueless I am. But you wonder how you are to respond to someone who is simply inventing things out of thin air.

38:05

They know are absolute lies. But then when you think about going after that, there's no bottom to this pit.

38:13

No, there isn't. No, there isn't. No, no, not at all. And in fact,

38:19

I saw a... See, I should have had this queued up.

38:27

I saw a quote from the

38:34

Stone Choir guys. Oops, that's why I can't find it. Looking at the wrong section. A quote from the

38:40

Stone Choir guys. And I had said to other people, I said, um, these folks, their purposeful intention is to divide churches.

38:53

This is as close to the beginning... Ah, here it is. Here's a guy.

39:00

He was responding to Trouble Woe, who is that number two guy. His name's out there, but I've forgotten what it was.

39:06

I'll have to look it back up again. But another Anon who's not all that Anon. But he said, quote,

39:12

I have a buddy that knew there was something wrong in the modern church, but couldn't put his finger on it.

39:19

I got him listening to your podcast. He's talking about Stone Choir. Two weeks ago. And now all he can talk about is headship, genealogy, and true

39:29

Christianity. Radicalizing them one child of God at a time. Now, this isn't a church, but it'll tell you to rebel against your church and against your pastors and against what's being preached.

39:43

It will divide your church. And here is the door it's coming through. Because these people, they're not doing it one -on -one.

39:52

They're not a church. They're not having services. They're led by an excommunicated

39:57

Lutheran. This is how they're getting into your church right here. You just said something that suddenly had a little flashback there, because it's like, oh,

40:05

I think I remember someone a number of years ago who was saying, oh, leave the church.

40:14

Oh, yeah. Yeah. 2011? You wrote a book called Dangerous Airwaves.

40:19

That's true. Same concept. And the rebellion against the church discipline, the rebellion against church authority that's being preached out here.

40:32

Yeah, there is a parallel there. I can't really draw a parallel between Corey Mahler and Harold Camping.

40:41

Because I can't draw a parallel between Harold Camping and anybody. But Harold was reformed.

40:52

Sort of. And we're seeing this melding of relationships that are all, except for the new guy, supposedly reformed.

41:06

Yes. Well, we'll see what happens to all that in the future. And so anyway, real quickly,

41:12

I wasn't going to do this. Real quickly. So to all the people saying, well, you're hypocritical to be talking about this.

41:22

Look, if you look at the graphic that was originally put out,

41:29

Jeff Durbin was a part of this. He had been invited long before all the rest of this stuff happened. And when he was removed, who was putting his place?

41:39

This guy. So the whole topic here is not some general discussion.

41:50

This is how to defeat Trashworld. And there's two different approaches to this.

41:57

Trashworld, the world we're looking at, which I don't find the phrase

42:03

Trashworld overly helpful. But certainly, the mess that secularism has produced in denying family and creative order and everything else, how do you defeat that?

42:26

I know how that would have been answered two years ago by almost everyone who's speaking at that conference.

42:35

Almost. At least by a large majority. But that's not the answer being given now.

42:45

So I've asked a plain and simple question that is being spun and run from and dust being thrown in the air and smoke screens being put out and everything else.

42:58

And that is, is it the position of the conference?

43:05

That you can defeat Trashworld without the gospel? And other people are like, oh, it's just co -belligerence.

43:13

This isn't a co -belligerence abortion thing. This is how you change the culture.

43:23

This is how you defeat Trashworld. There's only one way to do that. And some of us have been saying, this is how you do it from the start.

43:34

And we're being blamed for somehow being divisive and everything else because everybody else is taking another view.

43:41

You see, you either believe that the gospel is the power of God and salvation, therefore the only power given to the church to defeat

43:51

Trashworld. Or you are a Wolfian. You're a sacralist.

43:57

And you don't need regeneration. I mean, it can help. We won't reject it if it comes along, but we're not limited to waiting for it.

44:10

That takes way too much time. The Puritans did that. Look what happened to them. We don't want to repeat their mistake.

44:17

We need something now. And so let's not worry about that long term down the road stuff.

44:29

Building and planning and sewing, we want it all now.

44:35

Well, you're not going to get it now. It's not going to happen that way. And eventually the people that you're stringing along are going to figure that out.

44:46

And everything is going to come crashing down and there's where the problem is.

44:54

So Stephen Wolf also put out a lengthy tweet yesterday or the day before yesterday that we may take time to look at.

45:01

But it does seem that his primary apologetic for his position is to call everyone who disagrees with him dumb, stupid, or moronic.

45:10

That seems to be about it. It's funny, when we push back on anything, Oh, you're so mean -spirited.

45:17

I can't believe what you've changed. But he can do that with regularity. I don't see anybody saying a word.

45:23

So it's sort of like, hmm, I wonder how that's working out. Anyway, I wasn't going to talk about any of that, but it slipped out anyways.

45:34

In the midst of all this, real quick, stuff popping up here.

45:43

Oh, some people writing into the Liguori quotes. A Book of Mormon promoter, advertiser, something on Twitter, challenged

45:59

Justin Peters to a beautiful things about Jesus marathon quotation thing where Justin would quote from the

46:12

Bible and he'd quote from the Book of Mormon. Now, let me just point out that the

46:19

Book of Mormon does not contain the vast majority of Mormon doctrine because Joseph Smith did not believe the vast majority of the unique doctrinal positions that mark

46:32

Mormonism today when he wrote it. The Book of Mormon, that is. No, there were no golden plates.

46:40

There's no reformed Egyptian. None of that stuff. There were no Nephites and Lamanites in the ancient world.

46:48

They weren't riding around in chariots with swords and bows and arrows and all the rest of that stuff.

46:55

Doing economics with coins of gold and silver. They used jade and cocoa beans. It's all fiction.

47:04

But there are people who've been taught fiction for a long time. They continue to believe it. And so when

47:10

I saw that challenge, I popped in. I said, well, and I threw out a couple things about the changes in the

47:18

Book of Mormon and white and delightsome versus pure and delightsome and all the rest of that kind of stuff.

47:27

And I said, but the real issue is we have a way of testing

47:32

Joseph Smith because the Book of Mormon is like 530 pages long. It's allegedly translated by this man, before anybody could read

47:39

Egyptian, by the gift and power of God proving he's a prophet.

47:46

But in 1966, the papyri, here you can sort of see the papyri right here on the back of this book right here, a very excellent book by Charles Larson called

48:00

By His Own Hand Upon Papyrus. That's the

48:06

Anthon transcript. I'm sorry? Well, yeah, yeah.

48:18

This is the Book of Mormon. What they did with this one was the cover, this golden cover here, to look like golden plates, evidently, comes from what was taken to Anthon, Charles Anthon, it's a long story.

48:41

I don't have time to go into it right now. But these are some of the symbols that were used that are now very embarrassing for the church.

48:48

But maybe in 1964, they figured no one would ever find out about it.

48:56

So I said the best test that we have of Joseph Smith is called the

49:02

Book of Abraham. Why? Well, it's only five chapters long, I think. And yeah, okay,

49:11

I'll go ahead. Here's my little triple down here. And it's even got something like this is an older one, much, much older one.

49:22

And right at the back, you find the Book of Abraham. And yes, five chapters long.

49:29

And what you'll find are facsimiles. Now, since this is right at the back,

49:34

I remember very clearly pulling into the parking lot at the missionary training center in Provo, Utah, and I see this missionary.

49:48

So Mike Beliveau and I see this missionary. And so we went over to him, we started talking to him, and I started asking him questions about the

49:57

Book of Abraham. And he didn't know what it was. He had never seen it before. And that's when he directed us to the missionary training center.

50:04

And that's when we got into our very interesting conversation with the JCPenney convention in the front.

50:12

Hold it up again. So what Rich is doing is Rich is demonstrating that he can work with those cameras over there.

50:20

And he can zoom in on the facsimiles, if I can find the facsimile again.

50:27

There's one, there it is. There it is. So yeah, see, there you go. There you go.

50:35

That's right there. That's actually a facsimile that I can show you a better image of.

50:44

Let's see here. There you go. Let me maximize that, get everything else out of the way.

50:54

Um, this is actually from LDS churchiestchrist .org.

51:01

So you can look this up for yourself, and you can go up and down and see the whole thing here.

51:10

And then there is an explanation provided that I can give to you. I'm sorry?

51:17

Yes, yes, yes. We'll look at the numbers. And so what I said on social media was, here's an excellent example.

51:26

Because it's only five chapters long. It's not 530 pages. And if Joseph Smith can't get five chapters right, how can he get 530 pages of the

51:39

Book of Mormon right? And the point is the papyri that he had the

51:48

LDS church purchase from a traveling show man by the name of Michael Chandler for 2 ,400 bucks.

51:54

There's a lot of money back then. The papyri from which the Book of Abraham was allegedly translated, which is supposed to be the very writings of Abraham.

52:05

Okay, do you have any idea how old that would be? This would be the oldest written material ever found anywhere.

52:18

And the papyri that Joseph Smith claimed to translate, he wrote in Egyptian alphabet and grammar.

52:25

There's entire books. I have, there's a book titled,

52:35

A Book of Abraham Apologetics, A Review and Critique. That's only a few years old.

52:44

That goes through a lot of this, a lot of this material. And that particular one is about, is by Dan Vogel.

52:55

This is another Christian, this is a Christian book on the subject by Charles Larson.

53:00

Unfortunately, it's not in print. Wish it was because here's some of the best imaging that I have seen of the papyri.

53:11

And stuff like that in this book. Really, really useful.

53:16

So if you can't, if you do find it in a used bookstore or something, grab it. Well worth having.

53:22

And then the Mormons have been cranking them out. Introduction to the Book of Abraham, John Gee, a guide to the

53:29

Joseph Smith papyri, the Joseph Smith Egyptian papyri, a complete addition by Robert Rittner.

53:40

Um, unfortunately, yeah, there's some, yeah, okay. So you've got, it's not fold out like the other ones, which is a little bit easier.

53:47

But, um, but yeah, you've got all this stuff. And there's, it's been a number of books in the past, about seven or eight years that have been cranked out by the

53:59

Mormons. Why? Because the Book of Abraham, the papyri were thought lost in the

54:06

Great Chicago Fire. So they thought they were gone. Until 1966, when it was discovered they weren't gone.

54:14

And they hadn't been destroyed in the fire. And they were given back to the LDS Church, which was the last thing they wanted.

54:21

I can assure you, that was the last thing they wanted. Yeah, no, take them, can you burn them, please?

54:28

You know, something. But they were returned. And now we can read

54:34

Egyptian. And it turned out that what Joseph Smith thought were the writings of Abraham was from, you know, how long before the time of Christ?

54:45

You know, 15, 16, 1700 years. We're actually in the first century, about the time of Christ.

54:52

And they are portions of what's called the Book of Breathing. It's, uh, it's basically a, a magical amulet that is copied off and put under the hands of the, of the corpse.

55:05

And it's meant to give them passage into the afterlife. And so it's pure paganism, has nothing to do with Abraham at all.

55:14

Not even close. Now, for years, Egyptologists had been, um, pointing to, um, this.

55:32

This is to all, to all the facsimiles. This is just the main one that I'll look at right now. Had been pointing to this and going, wait a minute, we, we know what that is.

55:42

And we can, we, we now can identify all these various gods. We can read what this is about. We've found examples.

55:48

This is called a hypocephalus. It's put underneath the head of the deceased. Um, and then they would look at Joseph Smith's explanations of all this stuff.

56:03

And they'd go, but that, this doesn't represent Abraham. This is a well -known

56:09

Egyptian God. And this is another well -known Egyptian God over here. And he never uses any of their names. He doesn't know who they are.

56:15

Nothing like that at all. The most embarrassing, truly embarrassing, is upside down on the screen.

56:26

Now we have a little tract. I don't know. Do we have any of these left? Are these, can we get more of them?

56:35

Oh, um, it's too small for me to read it anymore, but it's called Men Is Not God. And I've really enjoyed passing this tract down over the years.

56:46

And the entire PDF of this tract is at aomin .org.

56:53

So you can look this up. If you put Men Is Not God, M -M -I -N, not man.

56:59

Min is not God. And put that in the search bar at aomin .org. It'll, it'll come up.

57:05

That's right there. In fact, there is the article from, and that, for example, shows you, oh,

57:20

I didn't know. See, I can't, I can't make that get bigger. Oh, there it is again.

57:25

A little bit, sort of. That shows you what we're looking at here. Turning it upside, right side up. Um, from the, uh, from the tract.

57:35

I'll stop playing around. There we go. Um, it gives you some of the story and, uh, some of the images and stuff like that.

57:46

So you can, um, it's not, it's not long, uh, but it just gives you the stuff.

57:55

So, uh, here's, you have to be, you have to be a little bit careful talking about this.

58:04

Okay. Because the image that's found in the

58:11

LDS scriptures. Okay. This is the same thing that I've showed you right here in LDS scriptures.

58:17

That hypocephalus has numerous Egyptian gods represented and Egyptian gods were scandalously sexual.

58:29

And that particular image, I'll go back to facsimile number two, right here.

58:37

The arrow is pointing to what we're talking about here, but it's upside down.

58:43

But, um, this portion right here, notice the number seven. Uh, in the material here, let me read you, um,

58:56

Joseph Smith's explanation, figure seven.

59:03

Now each of these figures, let me just read you like figure here. Here's, here's figure one, this right here.

59:12

Okay. Figure one, according to Joseph Smith, Kolob signifying the first creation nearest to the celestial or the residence of God.

59:22

First in government, the last pertain to the measurement of time. The measurement according to celestial time, which celestial time signifies one day to a cubit.

59:34

One day to a cubit. One day in Kolob is equal to a thousand years according to the measurements of this earth, which is called by the

59:44

Egyptians, Ja -oh -heh, Ja -oh -eh. Okay.

59:51

So this is supposed to be Kolob. Kolob, by the way, is the, um, star that God's planet circles around.

01:00:00

When he became a god, he organized this planet and that's where he lives,

01:00:06

I guess. And Kolob, so if you remember Kobol in, uh, in Battlestar Galactica, that's where it came, came from.

01:00:15

They're all Mormons, they all wrote it and they just changed the letters around. So that's figure one. So figure seven, down here, um, here's

01:00:26

Joseph Smith's explanation. Figure seven represents God sitting upon his throne, revealing to the heavens, the grand key words of the priesthood as also the sign of the

01:00:38

Holy Ghost unto Abraham in the form of a dove. All right. Now this is, you might go, what is it?

01:00:45

Think about it. God sitting upon his throne, revealing to the heavens, the grand key words of the priesthood.

01:00:51

Do you have any, most, most evangelicals don't have a clue how central to LDS theology the priesthood is.

01:01:01

I mean, it's, uh, that's the very authority of God, okay, is found in, in the priesthood.

01:01:11

So, that's what Joseph Smith said and, and it evidently, um, you know, kept people satisfied until the papyri showed up and now we know what all this stuff is.

01:01:24

Let me read from the track. Um, the object that Joseph Smith included in the book of Abraham is in reality a hypocephalus, a common item of Egyptian funerary literature.

01:01:36

All the facsimiles in the book of Abraham are drawn from common Egyptian funerary documents. It was placed on the person's head and was to aid them in making the journey through the netherworld by bathing their bodies in light.

01:01:46

Many examples of this kind of hypocephalus are to be found. We've got a, we need a space between of and this.

01:01:55

One of the many pagan gods pictured in this hypocephalus is shown above as it appears in a current edition of the

01:02:01

LDS scriptures. Egyptologists tell us this is the god Min, M -I -N. Min is an ethephalic god, that is, a sexually aroused male deity, as the picture clearly indicates.

01:02:13

Min is the god of the procreative forces of nature. Joseph Smith told us that the Egyptian god

01:02:19

Min was, in point of fact, the one true god. And what is Min doing? Joseph tells us he is revealing the grand key words of the priesthood with the sign of the

01:02:28

Holy Ghost in the form of a dove before him. In reality, he is holding up the divine flail in one hand, and is being approached by the figure

01:02:36

Joseph Smith identified as the Holy Ghost in the form of a dove. In point of fact, Joseph's hypocephalus was damaged at the border, so that only the head of the dove was visible.

01:02:45

So Joseph had to restore the picture. But did he do so correctly? No, he did not. The figure to the right provides us, which again, you want to read this, you can read it online at aomin .org.

01:02:57

The figure to the right provides us with the proper scene from another hypocephalus laden AMS 62.

01:03:04

The being that is approaching Min is not the Holy Ghost in the form of a dove, it is yet another ethephalic figure, specifically a serpent, probably the

01:03:13

Egyptian god Nehebka, presenting to Min the widget I, the symbol of good gifts.

01:03:20

The single LDS scholar who has written the most in the book of Abraham, well, at this point in time when I wrote this, may not be anymore,

01:03:26

Guy may have done more now, has written of Min, quote, As the supreme sex symbol of gods and men,

01:03:31

Min behaves with shocking promiscuity, which is hardly relieved by its ritual nature. His sacred plans are aphrodisical.

01:03:39

He is everywhere represented as indulging in incestuous relationships with those of his immediate family. He had the most numerous and varied religious entourages of all the gods, consisting mostly of his huge harem.

01:03:51

The hymns or rather chanting of his worshippers were accompanied with lewd dancing and carousing, the exciting stimulus of a band of sistrum shaking damsels.

01:04:03

It must be remembered that Joseph Smith said this figure represented God sitting on his throne. Incredibles may seem intelligent, well -read

01:04:09

LDS are fully aware of the true nature of the hypocephalus, including the presence of Min and Nehebka. The vast majority of LDS, however, are not.

01:04:16

How do they explain this? Mormon Egyptologist Michael Dennis Rhodes said, quote, Joseph Smith mentions here the

01:04:23

Holy Ghost in the form of a dove and God revealing to the heavens the grand key words of priesthood. The procreative forces receiving unusual accentuation throughout the representation may stand for many divine generative powers, no least of which might be conjoined with blessing of the priesthood on one's posterity eternally.

01:04:46

In other words, since the God of Mormonism is sexually active, begetting children in the spirit world, indeed God's power is often described by Mormons as being made of the power of the priesthood and the power of procreation, and Min is obviously sexually active as well, this then is the connection.

01:05:04

Now again, and by the way, I probably found about four more typos in what I just read that we need to have fixed.

01:05:11

I'm sure those are fixed on the website. I don't know that. Yeah, we'll have to take a look.

01:05:16

Yes. But what's interesting is, I decided to go to Mr. Google and if I type into Mr.

01:05:22

Google, Min is not God, guess what comes up very first? Really? Yeah, link straight to that article.

01:05:29

So you don't even have to go to AOMN .org, just go to Google, put that in, and that's what's going to pop up.

01:05:34

Well, good. You can do that and just remember something. The vast majority of,

01:05:45

I am astonished today when I talk to Mormons, like I said, we went out to the

01:05:53

Christmas lights thing week before last and had some conversations with people.

01:06:03

My experience is, outside of a few apologists who are not even overly

01:06:10

Orthodox Mormons, the vast majority of Mormons do not know their faith anymore.

01:06:18

They don't read books of theology. In my day, we had books like Mormon Doctrine by Bruce R.

01:06:27

McConkie. You could look up something, here's what it says. That's not even in print anymore. I think they've actually tried to burn as many as possible, get them out of there.

01:06:38

My conversations with Mormons demonstrate that the vast majority are not theologically aware of their own church's teachings in history.

01:06:49

I mentioned last year, I talked to a guy, I said, I just don't understand. We accept your baptism as valid, you should accept ours as valid.

01:06:55

I looked over to this other Mormon and even he's sort of going, because they don't accept our baptism as valid.

01:07:02

You have to have the priesthood authority to do that. But that's what you're dealing with now in talking to folks.

01:07:09

You have to recognize the vast majority of Mormons, they may have glanced the book of Abraham, but they don't know almost anything about its history.

01:07:19

It's pathetically sad to read these books that are being written in defense of the book of Abraham.

01:07:26

If you, but it makes sense, because they're doing the same thing in the Book of Mormon. The archaeology in the

01:07:34

Book of Mormon stuff, in the old days, it was recognized that the

01:07:39

Book of Mormon clearly is talking about not just Central America, but up into North America.

01:07:48

I don't have time to go into all the background to demonstrate that, but there's no question that was the original idea amongst

01:07:54

Mormons. Now, a lot of the guys at BYU will say the

01:08:00

Book of Mormon took place in such a small area that we could never hope to actually find physical evidence of what happened in the

01:08:11

Book of Mormon, because it's just a very small little area. We're not going to just stumble across it. Why do they have to do that?

01:08:17

Well, because everything the Book of Mormon describes is not what we know about Mesoamerica.

01:08:22

It's not what we know about the ancestors of the Olmecs, and Toltecs, and Mayans, and so on and so forth.

01:08:29

Very clearly, Joseph Smith presents an old world culture with chariots, and horses, and swords, and all sorts of stuff like that, which they didn't have in the

01:08:41

New World. Their coins are gold and silver. The gold and silver is so plentiful, they didn't consider it to be worthwhile.

01:08:48

They use jade and cocoa beans. So, the author of the Book of Mormon had no idea what

01:08:54

Mesoamerican archaeology, Mesoamerican life, culture, stuff like that was like. And so,

01:09:00

Mormonism is... The problem, therefore, is they're having to minimize, minimize, minimize, minimize the claims of Joseph Smith to make them defensible.

01:09:14

Because Joseph Smith claimed to be able to translate Egyptian by the gift and power of God. He couldn't.

01:09:20

He couldn't. It's proven. It's documented beyond question.

01:09:27

So, what do you got to do? Well, you've got to start changing those claims. You've got to start minimizing those claims as much as possible.

01:09:34

Well, once you do that, the foundation disappears. And I think a lot of what we're seeing in Mormonism today, the collapsing numbers, the confusion on the part of many of the people you talk to, all goes back to this.

01:09:56

And the claims that were, you know, yeah, we sure, I still had some older guys, you know, well,

01:10:05

I testified to you that Joseph Smith's a prophet of God, blah, blah. You know, the stuff that they've been taught to do as a missionary, you know, 40 years ago.

01:10:13

But they've got to know. They've got to be listening to the general conference and going, man, this doesn't sound anything like what we used to be saying and claiming and stuff like that.

01:10:25

And it's true. It's not. And that is changing the very character and nature of the church.

01:10:33

And I think the reason that they're still holding on as well as they are is because of how filthy rich they are.

01:10:43

I mean, that church has got money, just the money they've spent rebuilding the

01:10:50

Salt Lake Temple, which pretty much was ready to fall over after that earthquake. I mean, they've rebuilt.

01:10:57

Can you imagine how hard it is to build a granite building, rebuild it from the foundations up without taking it down?

01:11:06

Not easy, not easily done. But that's what they've been doing. And it's been incredibly expensive. They've got the money to do it.

01:11:13

I think that's why they're holding together, is they've got the money to keep people going the right direction. That money ever dries up.

01:11:20

It's going to be interesting. Going to be interesting, indeed, what's going to take place. So anyway, there's lots of fascinating stuff out there.

01:11:30

If you haven't read Letters to a Mormon Elder or Isamora, my brother, please avail yourself of it.

01:11:40

Mormons need to have people who can speak the truth to them. That has not changed. And their apologists are using social media to present this new sanitized version of Mormonism that doesn't have much of a connection to its old roots, but they remain anti -Trinitarian, very straightforwardly, because they know that's the one thing that Christians struggle to try to defend.

01:12:12

Sadly, we should be able to do it very, very well, but that's not really how it ends up happening.

01:12:22

Anyway, all right. So I did not intend to spend all the time we did talking about the other stuff, but hey, there we go.

01:12:29

We talked about at least some of it and then got back to the

01:12:35

Book of Abraham. Fascinating stuff. Fascinating stuff. All right. Thanks for watching the program today.

01:12:40

And those of you about to go into the deep freeze, I understand the

01:12:48

Gster back in St. Charles, they're talking 8 to 12 inches of snow on Sunday. And I think it may get all the way down to about 68 here on Sunday.

01:12:59

And we have leaves falling. We do. I need to get a yard service in because I ain't raking those suckers.

01:13:07

No, ain't doing it. I'm going to pay somebody else to do that. But yeah, we have leaves falling down.

01:13:14

Finally, finally. I mean, it took literally, when I got back, the tree was still a third full.

01:13:21

But it's finally pretty much down and getting ready to start budding again. Yeah. It's usually mid -December when we have that happen.

01:13:29

It's been too warm. Fall happens here and it's too warm. And then, I mean, goodness, we might get down to like 39.

01:13:36

Might. Yeah, maybe one night. So all of you getting ready to hit the deep freeze, we'll be out there in our shorts with the wind and the palm trees, 72 degrees.

01:13:54

Actually, today, tomorrow's closing on 80. 80 degrees.

01:13:59

Yeah, yeah. Oh, well, I'd like to have some cold weather. I really would.

01:14:05

I got some on the last trip. You know, 16 degrees. That was pretty good. But I'd like to have that happen.