Skype Show from Tucson: A Bit on Race, A Bit on Thanksgiving, Then A Lot on ETism

Alpha & Omega Ministries

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00:40

Well, greetings and welcome to the Divine Line. My name is James White. I'm coming to you via Skype So who knows how long this will actually last?

00:48

I don't know I just I Need to repent right now of the a couple of the

00:58

Traffic laws I may have bent a little bit to get Tucson traffic, let me tell you something.

01:05

I Understand why the folks in Tucson view themselves as sort of the stepchildren in Arizona because Maricopa County Phoenix gets more of the money because that's the capital and stuff, you know

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They could use a little a little help down here that the traffic can be tough and I Thought I left from the mountaintop fast enough to get here barely made it ran into the room

01:31

I think 12 minutes ago eight minutes ago something like that. I forget when it was anyway and So here

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I am and so I'm sort of scattered and rushing around really quick But it's good to good to be with you a couple follow -ups from the last program

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It was pretty disturbing Honestly, there was one individual on on Facebook That's You know

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Just to me anyways Exemplified what I'm really concerned about in this in this area.

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I don't know who he is evidently Kofi does know who this guy is his

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Profile picture is a a book called the satisfaction of Christ Haven't read the book sounds like a good title

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The way he spoke to a brother in Christ Well, my only response was to quote from 1st

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John He who hates his brother is in darkness until now and is deceived and It was just it was just so startling to see such a clear example of someone for whom race has become the most important thing and everything else is

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Subservient it under that and I think my real concern is that there seems to be met more and more people

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That are willing to accept that and are willing to say. Yeah, that's the way it needs to be. That's the way it has to be

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As I listen to more and more people and again, this is making great inroads into seminaries denominations

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It is a Christianized critical race theory. It is In many of its manifestations

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Marxist in its in its origination and In its final analysis it repudiates the idea that The central lens of interpretation for any

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Christian. I don't care if you're Chinese. I don't care if you're from Africa or the

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Orient or Wherever it does not matter the central mechanism of interpretation of your relationship with others the entirety of your worldview has to be must be cannot be anything other than the

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Christian worldview with at its center the Reconciliation that has been worked out by Jesus Christ.

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Now. I was asked a question on Twitter. I didn't get a chance to respond to it And some of those but okay, yeah

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Christ worked out but don't we have to work toward it ourselves well The reality is in the church

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That the central barrier that wall has been broken down There is a renewal in which there is no race.

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We are all equal before the cross and And What really concerned me and I'll just mention it again was when

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I heard the gentleman I played On the last program saying hey, you know it going taking somebody out a cup of coffee getting to know somebody

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You know the personal level thing. That's great, but that's not enough

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What you need to do is work toward the destruction of barriers and Institutions and this is where the

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Marxism comes in. This is where the the political stuff comes in. It's not biblical There's the you know, some people try to you know, paint a little bit of a some type of a biblical thing

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It's not what the Apostles were teaching What really concerned me was hey if you personally

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Have absolutely no animus your worldview does not does not function on the basis of race great, but that's not enough that's not enough and I really concerned me because that the

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There's there's huge differences But the mechanism of argumentation here reminds me a lot of other groups that are saying

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Tolerance is enough. You need to celebrate you need to get on our side.

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You need to embrace our paradigm Or you are you're on the wrong side of things and so seeing some of the reactions

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Just again very troubling We pray that Well when we pray for revival, this is another area where obviously revival would have a tremendous impact in that area and I Have been contacted again by people there are a lot of people of black color

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Who sort of fight this lonely battle on their on their own and they they fight it every day and they they pay dearly for it and They're the ones that contacted me and said please

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Don't don't let don't let anybody make you silent about this this is a destructive movement and you're right and You'll pay for it, but you need to understand we are we are seeing it firsthand.

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So it was an interesting Interesting bit of response Not nearly like back in March and what happened at that time some

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One group just simply reposted What they did back then like yeah here.

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We did this last time. It's same same old thing, you know and But Especially that one that one exchange with with Kofi just just left me going really this is really happening and what's called the

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Christian Church and Sadly, unfortunately it is So Okay.

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Now I'm now I'm Now now

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I'm looking at the channel and I'm being distracted by it Well, if I lose him

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I will call him back that that up that up that okay, I'm hoping I'm hoping it's

08:16

The connections. Okay. It is hotel Wi -Fi And hotel Wi -Fi is just hotel

08:23

Wi -Fi Pay pay no attention. It's all fine here. Now. How are you?

08:28

Yeah, it's it's let's go back to Star Wars. So No, I'm not at La Quinta right now, actually,

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I'm in a pretty nice place, but That's neither here. No there. I am in Tucson and I'll just mention once again the fact

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I'll be speaking Saturday evening and Sunday morning at Faith Community Church And I'll be speaking on perseverance in the

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Christian life if you're interested in a subject like that. So If you're in the

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Tucson area, you would be more than welcome to to join us There plenty of room for you

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And you will be warmly received All right. So just a little bit on that Listening to media coverage of This transitionary period now,

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I've got to admit I posted I posted it and said well played

09:39

Did you see the the White House video they put out a couch commander

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And especially the memes that have been being produced with Obama and Biden especially focused upon by I I Guess now

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I guess now the elections over we can we can all make fun of Joe and it's okay because he's

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Joe and And those memes have been pretty pretty hilarious. They're really they really have been

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But if you saw the couch commander one, did you notice when he was trying to get his driver's license

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Obama was And she asks for his name that goes, uh Did you notice it was in the background?

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I didn't see it the first couple times I saw it But it's like in post DMVs. Yeah, you got

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Obama standing here and then the sort of quirky DMV lady Actually, she is sort of the quintessential

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DMV lady, wasn't she? Yeah. Hmm. Anyway, I Got the wall in the background right behind him.

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It's Obama's picture. So she's going who are you? What's your name? Oh, yeah birth certificate. Yeah, really and his pictures right there on the wall in the background and I think that was obviously purposeful and I hadn't seen it for the first few times.

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But anyway But anyway the You know,

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I'm trying honestly I mean,

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I would like to basically say let's let's let's just wait a year and And see what happens.

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We'll have some perspective something to go on a year from now

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But obviously everybody wants to jump on Stuff right now. I was not surprised at all by President -elect

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Trump's comments about gay marriage and Looking at some of the people that are being chosen.

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It's You know, but I'm I'd like to set back and go let's

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See what happens because this was this was the the great toss of the dice

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So we knew what Clinton would do. I have no idea what he's gonna do. Let's let's see. But let's see what see what happens

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We've actually got What is it about 68 days or something like that between now and?

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When things happen and I I Person would like to just forget about all of it for a while.

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I know we can't do that, but it would be nice just to Put off to the side and focus on next week that wonderfully unique American Christian thing called

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Thanksgiving. It's undoubtedly one of the best holidays ever

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That would be that'd be great and maybe we can do some of that but I'm gonna be watching we all need to be watching speaking of Thanksgiving next week,

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I I really hope that You're able to focus some time upon that.

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There are few topics in Scripture more Spiritually important and satisfying and I would say one of the greatest marks of a mature and maturing

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Christian is Is Thankfulness and I can't think of anything that's more important to cultivating contentedness contentment

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Then Thanksgiving not the holiday the attitude I've said many times.

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I wish the Greek term had not been stolen from us You kind of stout

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Oh the Eucharist Beautiful beautiful word. It's been stolen because of what has been it's been turned into within Roman Catholicism but I don't know how you could overdo a

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Real study of Thanksgiving and the application of it in one's life.

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I I don't know how you could overdo that especially in a society Western society

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That teaches us each and every day To be discontent about everything about and I mean everything

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Discontent with your spouse your kids your parents your house your body your looks how much money you've got how much food you've got

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Where you live what car you drive? I mean the very essence of Western society is discontentment and Discontentment and Thanksgiving cannot exist together

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It's like it's like putting dawn dishwashing liquid into water that has oil in it the oil just goes

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And when you drop a little bit of Thanksgiving in the Christian life that that discontentment just it's it's repelled.

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It's driven away and So given that every single day almost every advertisement is specifically designed to I'm gonna use it again today

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Inculcate has become my favorite word all of a sudden Let's not start a drinking games with the term inculcate

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But is designed to to create within you this

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Real strong Discontentment with what you have then

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Looking at Thanksgiving recognizing that it is central to the

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Christian character To be constantly thankful For what God has done for us in Christ and because of that because of how

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Transcendent the the work of Christ is in in our lives Everything else needs to be seen within light of that all the actions that we experience

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The difficulties the joys trials everything it all needs to be seen through that lens and that changes that really does change everything

16:04

Yes, I'm talking about tacos favorites a favorite holiday And then we've got other people in channel that are pushing their webcast during our webcast

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And I'm not going to mention what webcast that is because that would be you know

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Unwise I would think but there you go There you go.

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Oh is someone not do Thanksgiving Probably book, huh? Anyway, I did mention on Facebook I joined a

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Reformed Baptist Fellowship group and I Had to turn the notifications off from that particular group, unfortunately

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I'm not sure that there's any group I ever could join on on Facebook that Anyway, I mentioned on Facebook that I was going to respond

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Yet once again because I I do I do believe it's important to the promotion of this vague concept and Again, I I do

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Apologetics I'm involved in trying to help people understand How to defend the faith in a modern context where we're dealing with So many attacks upon the very foundations of the faith we've talked about Bart Ehrman We've looked at you know

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If you look at the topics that he's done in his popular books over the past number of years There is a very clear progression and purpose in what

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Ehrman has done And what he's doing is laying a foundation for unbelief at every level of the transmission of the text of the

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Bible at every Possible identifiable stage even to the memories of the writers

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He's laying a foundation to say we can't trust it we can't trust it we can't trust it and As a result

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While our great -grandparents didn't have to deal with many of the issues memory textual transmission manuscripts all the rest that types of the fact is we do if we're going to be engaged if we are going to Open our mouths and say the

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Word of God says then we need to be prepared to give a defense of The accuracy of that text which we possess today

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And in my opinion The people that can give the most compelling and consistent

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Defense of Scripture are reformed individuals believers who

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Recognize God's sovereignty because what are we saying? We talk about Scripture. We're saying that You know, we don't believe in a dictation theory

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We don't believe you might but I hope you don't We don't believe in automatic writing we don't believe that You know the

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Apostle Paul was gonna write a letter one day and then you know, he gets the pen out and he's thinking about ways go right to the church at Rome and all sudden and His hand starts moving and he's just staring off into space.

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Well, actually he was Like I really wouldn't have worked because he was using the manuensis

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Okay, so all of a sudden he was about to start telling his scribe what to say and then I saw some

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Paul an apostle of Jesus This type of thing He uses his own language

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He uses The context in which he is living We can tell the difference between something

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Paul writes and something that Luke writes there's very different syntax grammar

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Of course the word usage and choice is very different. And so we don't believe in automatic writing

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To give us for Peter's description. Well for anybody's description whether it's

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Jesus description Have you not read what God spoke to you saying?

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or Paul's all scriptures. They are new sauce God breathe or Peter's description men spoke from God as they were carried along by the

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Holy Spirit or any of the many descriptions you can get out of looking at the 119th Psalm or Isaiah chapter 40 or whatever else might be

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All of those put together require a very very high view of God and God's sovereignty and his providential interaction in time and How his decree works out in time?

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Flawlessly It's not like he tries and then whoops, well, well learn from that one and some type of process theology idea and so The people that I think can give a consistent

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Argument for the highest view of Scripture Are not those who emphasize the autonomous will of man?

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The synergists You know on one hand it seems many of them want to affirm a high view of Scripture but Their their emphasis upon the capacities and abilities of man

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You know cause a problem. It's something that that they have to struggle with and There we go,

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I Wasn't good. By the way, I wasn't gonna buy another Mount Lemmon shirt But it was cold

22:18

I start going down a hill and it's like 48 degrees with a 20 mile an hour headwind and I'm going 25.

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So it's a 45 mile an hour headwind Windchill at 45 degrees and I did not dress for it.

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I went straight to the little store down there in Summer Haven and And I even said it late

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I wonder how many long -sleeved shirts you all sell just because a cyclist or morons and she just Tried to keep from laughing anyway

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So little aside there as I tried to adjust the camera a little bit so I I'm not just you know down here someplace in the picture anyway

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With that in mind and of course reform Reform theology as a whole

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Historically has had an extremely high view of Scripture. I Would argue that it's the reformed stream

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That has come from the Reformation that has given us our best defenses of Scripture most consistent the ones that actually seek reform people when talking about Scripture Do so as self -conscious

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Trinitarians self -consciously believing in substitutionary atonement

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Do so in light of their soteriology because reform theology requires a Recognition of how all these things relate to one another

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Unfortunately non reform theology very often just has your doctrine scripture out here darkened

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God over here darkness salvation on here church over here Whatever and there's no Connectedness and obviously when things are connected together, they're much stronger and And those promoting those things are able to be more consistent in both proclamation and in the recognition of errors on the other side because you you have you see how

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God's truth is related together and so when you See denials of one part of God's truth. You see how that would impact in other areas you see and so that's that's why when?

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People say oh, I love what you do. I just Calvinism I can just do without but I love what you do. I'm just sort of like really

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Then you don't really understand what I'm doing or you're not recognizing how central the affirmation of God's kingship is to everything else that I do.

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I you're missing something along the line So with that having been said

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I Saw a Facebook post in the

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Reformed Baptist Fellowship group Said regarding having a meaningful apologetics the

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Christian faith and the text of the New Testament The denial of the inspiration of the pericope adultery the woman caught in adultery

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John 8 John 7 811 specifically and last 12 verses of Mark is a capitulation to post enlightenment humanistic rationalism and Fundamentally undermines the authority of Scripture and the

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Christian faith. There is the assertion that is made Now notice how it's phrased

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My immediate response and say you're assuming the inspiration of these texts

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And you need to demonstrate That these texts are original to do this, but you see

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This is a representation of what's called the ecclesiastical text was well, I don't know this particular individual

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Put forward ecclesiastical text stuff when I pushed on it. He responded with Byzantine priority stuff, which is not ecclesiastical text stuff

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And so I don't know where he is. I don't know and I'm on it. I'll be honest with you.

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I don't I'm not interested in investing my time to try to track all the developments and things like that because My experience is every ecclesiastical text guy is different than every other ecclesiastical text guy when you push when you try to get specific answers because ecclesiastical text ism is not a methodology for doing

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Textual study the new testament. It's not it can't be it already has a fixed a

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An idea of a fixed text doesn't actually have a fixed text I mean at least you know, if you actually are

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TR only, you know Here's the you know have with me here in a hotel room, but I've got the

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Trinitarian Bible Society TR This is my final authority. Okay.

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Now we've got something we can look at now We've got specific readings that we can discuss and things like that But for most folks it's sort of this much more of a vague thing and When you point out the errors in TR, well, we're not just talking about the

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TR. We're talking about the Ecclesiastical text the text used by the church. Well, which church are we talking about?

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Western readings in the Latin Christianity. Are we talking about Augustine? Are we talking about Eastern Orthodoxy?

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Do what do we talk about what church? There are differences within Western Christianity differences within Eastern Orthodoxy, but which one so very vague identified specifically

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But here you have the denial of the inspiration How do you know?

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obviously from my perspective that's backwards and Here's here's a fundamental difference what

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I believe is What's inspired is what was written Under the direct guidance of the

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Holy Spirit by the Apostles and Those in the first generation used by God to write the scriptures.

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I want to know what they wrote. I Don't care. Well, I I do care but not on the inspiration level

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What a scribe 400 or 500 years later thought they should have written

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That's interesting to me as one who studies textual criticism but as far as The actual inspired text that has authority

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I want to know what was originally given and so in other words,

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I Think it's very clear That all New Testament books were written before 100

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AD the vast majority well before 180 It's possible.

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They're all written before 70. I don't I can't prove that and My gut feeling is is that Revelation and John are after the destruction of the temple, but some people theorize otherwise,

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I Wouldn't change much for me if that were the case, but let's just put it this way I Want to know what existed at the end of that first century during the lifetimes of the authors

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And the lifetimes that I witnesses that's what I want to know and If something comes along after that something comes along in another time

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Well, that may be interesting But it can't be inspired. It can't be the honest to us unless you you subscribe the idea of an open

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Canon and continuing Revelation and now you have all sorts of issues relating to The authority of the authors and and things like that So this statement starts off backwards

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By by even phrasing it the way that it is, but of course from an ecclesiastical text position everything's backwards

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That's why it's next to impossible to reason with these men because everything's backwards it's an anachronistic system because you're starting with a text that has a history and Whether it's the

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TR or whether it's a Byzantine priority, whatever That text can only come into existence by a mechanism of textual critical analysis and To say well you you modernistic folks here you post enlightenment humanistic rationalists

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The the alleged ecclesiastical text Had to be derived from manuscripts by Desiderius Erasmus or whoever else was involved.

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I mean if you want to go with the Latin Vulgate Hey, Jerome had to do it and he had to come up with methodologies of making decisions when there are variations in the manuscripts

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You know, you can pretend you're not doing that and you can just slough it off too. Well the church did

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That's real nice when and that's immediately where the wheels fall Which church who what manuscripts they have what council did it?

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There's no answer saying these things cuz it never happened Well, it's just general usage.

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Well, that's nice That's exactly how the Latin Vulgate was defended at the time of the Reformation by the

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Roman Catholic Church You got it and using it for 1100 years. Who were you to question? so This ecclesiastical text stuff, you know,

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I'm seeing it More and more online that doesn't mean anything Facebook is not representational of Real life.

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I'm sorry. I some of I just really first few then let me continue on with this if the church

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Could be wrong about these texts for over a thousand years We shall fail to have a consistent defense for the self -authenticating nature of the scriptures without self -authentication

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The Bible would not be a divine book if the Bible is not a divine book then we who profess Christ believe in vain now there are so many

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Problems here. I don't even know if we have time to unpack all of them, but This frightens me because it's coming from a person who claims to be

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Reformed and is standing in the line of the Reformation Why well, did you hear that?

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If the church could be wrong about these texts without which church Rome Constantinople Which one when did the church speak on?

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The Percocet adultery. Where is that? Where's the infallible? Declaration, where's the the council that met and said we've examined this and this is where we're gonna go there

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There would never was one Obviously so and it likewise shows tremendous disrespect the most primitive church because there's

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You might say well there was an early church father here who made a reference someone this but the fact the matter is the

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Church of the first few centuries that produced those vitally important papyrus manuscripts didn't have it as part of their scriptures and so You're gonna have to deal with the fact that hundreds of years past to see what makes me especially sensitive to this

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You know, I deal with Roman Catholicism Got a debate coming up just announced yesterday

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That we have a debate coming up right before the g3 conference on The perseverance of the

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Saints when you lose salvation I'll be debating Trent horn staff apologists for Catholic answers first time

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We've we've done anything with Catholic answers in a long time. I'm looking forward to that. I've never met Trent I'm looking forward to meeting him

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You know like my first few debates with Catholic answers were with Jerry matics and stuff like that.

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So I'm older and hopefully a better debater than I was back then.

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So I'm really looking forward to it I hope we have an opportunity to really lay things out and Especially with this will be in 2017 and be a lot of stuff going on that area, but I'm really sensitive

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That's because I've been dealing with Roman Catholicism for a long long time that first debate that I deal with Catholic answers was at in Long Beach in August of 1990 and I was on solo scriptura.

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And so I have been engaged in defending Solo scriptura and the authority of Scripture against Rome for a long long time.

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And as I mentioned Was it the last dividing line or the one before that? Well, whichever one it was where there was this ecclesiastical text videos.

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I played the videos for you as I sat there watching it at first I was like Wonder why the

35:13

Roman Catholics are putting this out and then all of a sudden It's not Roman Catholics. It's the ecclesiastical text guys

35:19

Ted leaders mentioned at the end of it and it's like hmm so many problems so the church

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Has never spoken on the Percocet altar simple usage over time is

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Not the church speaking. Otherwise, we should be using the Latin Vulgate and some extremely

35:43

Western readings because it has Has the the testimony of extended use for a very long period of time

35:53

And it wasn't a matter of the church being right or wrong. There was no examination of these issues

35:58

So how can it be right or wrong? But then what's really frightening is this is then connected to the self -authenticating nature of the scriptures you do realize that this statement

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Connects the self -authenticating nature of the scriptures to the authority of the church.

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I Mean the writer just may not have thought this through just may not realize. Oh, wow. I Didn't see that but it does

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Logically it does Because you're talking about the church being right or wrong about a text being absolutely central to the self -authenticating nature of the scriptures

36:38

So you're mixing all sorts of stuff up here because the only self -authenticating scriptures are the scriptures as given by God The New World Translation is not self -authenticating scripture is it?

36:54

No it is a Far removed perversion of that word

36:59

But doesn't that then obviously mean that what we're talking about here? We talked about the scriptures being self -authenticating is

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The actual scriptures that God gave that's why we want to know what was written By Paul and John and Luke and not by a scribe 500 years later

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Yeah But once you bring the church in and say, oh, well, you see the church actually makes textual decisions

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Even though the church has never done that. Well until six distrited and that was a major failure

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We've seen Attempts by Popes and people like that To to do this type of thing but the reality is that When they've done so they've always ended up face planting in the process is either immediately

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Or with the further study of the issue Discovery of manuscripts and so on so forth

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The self -authenticating the self -authenticating nature of scripture comes from the nature of scripture itself

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The church may or may not testify to that depending on what church we're talking about but to make the self -authenticating nature of scripture dependent upon The church's textual decisions is not reformed.

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It's not Protestant. It's at best paper the papism Now you just may have stumbled into it just may not have enough experience dealing with Roman Catholicism realize that but once again

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This is why I keep saying Ecclesiastical text guys. I Don't see them out there taking on the

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Roman Catholics or the Muslims They're mainly taking on me and I I don't

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I'm not trying to get them to go out there and do that because it would Be a disaster It's a circular system that can't answer the fundamental questions.

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And here's a good example of it Without self -authentication the

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Bible would not be a divine book that's because of its nature not because of some mythical church decision on the two largest textual variants in the

39:12

New Testament The One of which is not found in a manuscript prior to the fifth century, okay trying to make the self -authenticating nature of scripture dependent upon that text

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It is is so destructive to any meaningful defense of New Testament. That's why

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I cannot honestly think of Any reformed seminary that has taken this position.

39:39

Does anybody know of one? I mean even even people who prefer the King James Have they made the statement because I know

39:47

Westminster doesn't do it things like that But have even the most conservative seminaries said yeah if you don't have this particular text this actually the church and divine self -authentication and Inspiration it all gets tied together in it

40:02

Wow, I I can tell you one thing. The Reformers didn't do that. Calvin didn't do that.

40:09

I Can point you to too many places where Calvin questioned what's become the standardized textus receptus style text

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For it to even begin to be suggested that this was what he was actually going for So you have so far

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Anyone who doesn't believe in the inspiration of the longer ending of Mark and the

40:34

Prick of a adultery post Enlightenment humanistic rationalism Undermining the authority scripts

40:39

Christian faith no longer have the Bible's divine book. And so we profess Christ in vain

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And really Third paragraph here now It's absurd to think that we can get the titles of the books of the scripture, right?

40:57

But be universally wrong for many centuries about complete extended narratives in those books

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What titles you're referring to? It's inconsistent to say that we could be wrong about these complete narratives, but not about some of the actual books of the canon.

41:15

Why? Notice you're you're looking at the two the only two extended

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Textual variants in New Testament the only two that exist There's not there's another there's single verses.

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They're almost all parallel corruptions. In other words a Direct Insertion from synoptic gospel type situation

41:41

Where another gospel has it here and so it's ends up in certain manuscripts later on these the only two and So what does this have to do with the title of books or titles of books inspired?

41:56

I don't think they are. What what is what does this have to do? Wrong for many centuries again

42:04

Who specifically When what council you won't get any answers to these things.

42:12

I've tried asking you you don't get any answers to these things and then and now so if you question

42:23

The Prick a pay adultery because it first appears in Codex Bezae Cantabrigensis the

42:30

Living Bible of the ancient church If you question that then you don't have a basis for Canon, I don't think

42:42

I don't think Mike Kruger would accept that and he's probably the Greatest thinker in canon issues around right now

42:50

But maybe he's just post Enlightenment humanistic rationalism himself. Who knows it seems to be the case

43:00

The connection between canon I mean everybody record everybody recognizes that there were differences even between the manuscripts that Erasmus use there were differences between the printed editions of The five editions of Erasmus Stephanos basic there were differences

43:19

So does that mean because there would be there might be small differences that we can't know

43:25

John's canon Romans is canon Could could you could you establish that was something more than just mere assertion?

43:34

That would be really really helpful. I think at that point Sun's going out.

43:40

It's getting probably disappear here. It's just into the darkness. I'm not sure how bright this light is anyway It is precisely here.

43:47

The doctrine of the text of scripture is being attacked by unbelieving academia What is unbelieving academia?

43:55

You mean? No. Oh shouldn't have done that. No, I have no idea where that went What is what is unbelieving academia?

44:01

Yeah There we go Is that is that Bart Ehrman Or is that me if you can't tell just that's what was so Really sad about that video that we played last time if you can't tell a difference between Dan Wallace and me and Bart Ehrman.

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I Think you should be trying some other line of work because that's just It's really bad.

44:34

It's really really bad So, I don't know what the unbelieving active that otherwise sound men

44:41

Would advocate the removal of these narratives and again just like in King James only isn't how is it always put forward?

44:49

deleted verses Removing things in the Word of God not the standard that needs to be and that is what was written by the

44:59

Apostles of Jesus Christ So you always you can always identify This kind of rhetoric by its poisoning the well and the type of language that utilizes that otherwise sound men would advocate the removal these narratives from the for the

45:18

Bible as if They're there in the first place. Obviously what we are saying is they weren't there originally?

45:28

Simply demonstrates how disconnected from the actual issue Most evangelicals have become well,

45:36

I would say what it demonstrates is how a human tradition Ecclesiastical text is has become so central to how these men view

45:45

Scripture and It's a tradition Just as the papist view of Scripture is a tradition

45:55

It's not simply then a matter of these narratives it is what some are conceding about the text of Scripture by their removal

46:04

So Conceding about the text of Scripture I can only assume means that we should as Everyone that I know of in history has up until modern times

46:21

Been most desirous to know The original text that's what

46:27

Erasmus wanted. That's what Stephanus wanted. That's what Mason wanted That's what

46:33

Tischendorf wanted to establish and defend the original text in the recognition of the frailty of Human beings that were used in the transmission of that text and this may be where there's a problem with these individuals they want to try to get away from the reality and This is something

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I present a lot in my discussions

47:03

When I talk about New Testament reliability The mechanism that God used to preserve his word was the sudden explosion of the

47:12

New Testament Manuscripts all across the known world multifocality multiple Authors writing to multiple places at multiple times.

47:20

It was never under the control of any one particular group Therefore there can never be an editing insertion of doctrines

47:27

No one could ever gather everything up and change it and put out new copies all that kind of stuff.

47:33

Absolutely impossible the by -product of that mechanism is textual variation a

47:39

Relatively small amount of textual variation, but there still is textual variation as there is in every ancient work as there were in the manuscripts of the

47:50

Tanakh in the days of Jesus and the Apostles and it seems to me that for a lot of folks they're very uncomfortable with that and So to say that the church decided these things allows you to get away from Dealing with the existence of text of variation and That's why

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I will just simply point out to folks if you can't get away from it because the New Testament itself

48:18

Has examples where the New Testament writers are quoting from textual variants in the

48:24

Old Testament So you can't get away from the issue. You can hide your head in the sand.

48:29

You can come up with all sorts of Ways around it all you want isn't going to accomplish anything

48:37

It's not gonna happen So None of the otherwise

48:48

Orthodox men Who would have these passages removed have ever answered this problem?

48:57

This was part of why I Probably made the mistake of even bothering to try to answer it in the sense of making a comment in Facebook That's just so abjectly untrue

49:11

I went I went to Apologia Studios and We addressed all of these things

49:18

The the unwillingness on the part of Ecclesiastical text advocates to listen does not mean that we have not provided responses we have and Thankfully, I realized the majority large majority of folks who have listened to this and listen to sides recognized

49:36

Yeah, the answers have been given very clearly but it is start frightening that someone can use this kind of rhetoric

49:45

Because it's just it's just blatantly untrue but Dedication to a tradition can do that to you.

49:54

They have mocked it Sidestepped it twisted it and called it foolish, but they have not answered it the reason they have not is because they cannot now

50:04

I've been Dealing with people promoting isms and movements for three decades now and Actually a little longer than that about three and a half and When someone is challenged

50:21

And they really don't have the best answer. They really don't have a strong case. This is how they speak

50:28

Every Mormon missionary that I talked to well, not every but many Mormon missionaries

50:33

When I would challenge them How many times I would hear those like you just you've just strengthened my testimony.

50:42

You've just strengthened my faith in the church Yeah, right you you you know people read the

50:49

King James like you didn't raise a single thing. I couldn't answer. I There's nothing you can do about it other than to just smile and go home.

51:01

Okay. All right, you know and Just remember how many people have heard what you were saying and recognize the truth and things like that It's not a matter of mocking it it's not a matter of sidestepping it we've just demonstrated it's not actually a methodology you cannot take this these this set of assertions and Create a text out of it

51:26

If you if you handed the New Testament manuscript tradition to someone making these assertions and say answer

51:34

The text tell us what the text is now given all of this They can't do it because they're starting with the text and then reasoning backwards

51:42

Their method would never get them to that text because there's gross inconsistencies So it's it's not a methodology can be disproven because there is no methodology to disprove

51:55

That's the problem. That's why that's why I say it's indefensible. You can call that mockery or sidestepping or whatever else

52:01

It's just it's the reality and I I responded by providing a

52:08

Set of textual variants and asking okay Which one's the right one given the ecclesiastical text method?

52:14

I didn't get a response allegedly because I would just then delete it But the fact matter is you can't come up with answers in a meaningful fashion utilizing this system

52:26

It just can't do it And as long, you know, you know these these folks can just keep banging away on the drum and you know, six months from now just repeat this type of stuff, but Until they can start actually producing a text and defending it in a meaningful fashion

52:44

But of course that would then make them post -enlightenment humanistic rationalists, I guess if they did that Last paragraph, however, it is encouraging to see a groundswell of movement back to the traditional text

52:56

Among both ministers and Christians in the pew as more and more Bible believers become aware of this problem God has preserved his word and the self -authenticating the sheep hear his voice

53:05

Again, very vague sounds real good theological could never answer a single textual variant indefensible in going out into the world in Taking on the

53:16

Bart Ehrman's the world and people like that again, sounds great and not wonderful whatever the traditional text is until you have to identify what it is and why it is and Once you've identified it in one text

53:30

Then you go over this text and now you have to use a completely different set of criteria to get the reading that you need to have whatever you've identified as a traditional text and you just keep playing with the with the data and There's no way to defend that not against someone who could actually point out and say

53:46

I you just kind of dictated yourself Oh, there you did it again up a different standard and that's another reason why

53:53

I Stand so firmly against this Creeping traditionalism

54:01

That is so destructive to Christian apologetics and to reform Christian apologetics is because if I'm gonna say to the

54:08

Muslims You need to be consistent If I say to Ijaz when he tries to use textual criticism to undercut the

54:16

New Testament. Hey, what about the Quran? Then I'm gonna need to turn around back here and when

54:22

I find traditionalists Calvinist Reformed Baptists Doing the exact same thing.

54:27

I'm gonna go. Hey, you're wrong, too got to There's there's there's no way around it

54:34

Just simple simple consistency so There you go.

54:40

You're You know, I don't want to Repeat the same thing over and over and over again in dealing with this issue but The fact is that there are some who are just so wedded to this position that they just getting converts to that perspective is extremely important to them and So you may be approached and I think it's important for you to know

55:13

What the facts those those issues those issues are? Um, so anyway, let me see here

55:23

I'm just looking at some of the things in in channel and things like that If you didn't

55:37

I'll close with this because we're about out of time But if you well, actually we I can go straight up the hour because we're we're a minute or two late

55:43

I think we have started but it doesn't matter If you did not see my linking on Facebook To the

55:52

YouTube video just look it up. You don't have to go to my page to find it like that but it is that time of year to watch and appreciate the great turkey drop episode of WKRP in Cincinnati That wasn't my favorite show, but I stretched the imagination.

56:13

It really wasn't but hearing less Less Nessman Talk about turkeys hitting the ground like wet sacks of cement.

56:25

Oh the humanity if you actually like comedy

56:33

Want to have some comedy that's not filled with Profanity and things like that, which is sort of hard to find these days

56:41

Look up the great turkey drop. Oh Less Nessman.

56:49

Wow, he was he was great. Yes, I As God as my witness, I thought turkeys could fly

56:59

So classic that That and if and if that one doesn't took your funny bone enough just while you're in YouTube Go over and find the dentist

57:12

Skit from the Carol Burnett show. I still think that is that a doubt the best the best get

57:22

Um Harvey Korman couldn't Couldn't handle it couldn't handle it.

57:27

It was it was The best there's no two ways about well, I finished up the last part of my my time there.

57:33

Didn't I? Yes, I did Thanks for watching a lord willing I'm not sure what we're gonna do next week.

57:40

What but hmm Well, definitely Monday. I need to do something Monday Not doing anything

57:48

Thursday cuz you know, don't tell anybody I'm thinking about doing the deep -fried turkey thing this year

57:57

Really am they're really putting a push on They've got those in indoor Fryers now, they're supposed to be completely safe and everyone's told me there is no better turkey

58:09

So I'm thinking about it So that's gonna keep me busy Maybe so we'll see we'll figure something out next week to to get all of you addicts through the week

58:20

But I hope you have a great week. We like I said, we'll see you Lord willing on Monday.