Doug Wilson: Is the Constitution Dead & Fallout from The Tucker Carlson Interview! DMW#236

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Is the Constitution dead? Let's find out what Doug Wilson has to say exploring theology doctrine and all of the fascinating subjects in between Broadcasting from an undisclosed location dead men walking starts

00:34

Thanks for listening, thanks for sharing with a friend as always you can find out more at Dmw podcast calm follow us anywhere on social media at dead men walking podcast first up apologetics live guys

00:46

Rapport apologetics live every Thursday from 8 to 10 p .m It's a live stream. It is talking about apologetics theology doctrine and you rapport jumps on there

00:57

Invites people on the live stream. They ask the questions. He answers them It's pretty fun and some people get on there try to stump them last week they had an atheist on there

01:08

I think or Moniker online is the atheist grandma. They had a really good discussion.

01:13

Very interesting You can check it out at apologetics live comm find the links to watch the live stream every

01:19

Thursday 8 to 10 p .m Eastern Standard go check it out apologetics live. Of course is part of the

01:24

Christian podcast community. Love what Andrew's doing over there Go check it out guys. So Yeah, just want to do a little intro here to our conversation with Doug Wilson And we're talking about is that is the

01:40

Constitution dead it was a really good conversation we talked about You know, how do we view the

01:49

Constitution as Christians? How do we do we try to blow it all up and start over do we try to repair it?

01:57

We talked about history a little bit political history was there a time in America where the morality of the people reflected the intent of the

02:08

Constitution the most It was good But before we get into that I had just two things really quick that interested me this week

02:15

I want to talk about I think when you're by time you're listening to this. It'll have been maybe a day or two since Kennedy dropped out of the race and It doors

02:26

Trump which keep an eye on this because that that's actually pretty big for the race because RFK was a spoiler in like I don't know six or seven states

02:38

Just some quick numbers for you for those interested in, Arizona Trump was down to Harris 44 to 45 %

02:45

RFK was almost 6 % at 5 .8 in Nevada 44 Trump 43

02:51

Harris. He's a 5 % spoiler in that state 5 % spoiler in Wisconsin Trump was down by a few points 44 to 46 in Michigan Trump was down 43 to 45.

03:03

He's a 6 % spoiler in that state RFK and then Pennsylvania 44 to 46 one a half percent spoiler four and a half percent,

03:13

North Carolina where Trump and Harris are in a dead heat at 45 and Then Georgia Trump was up by three points 46 44 and RFK is a 4 % spoiler

03:22

So some really important states there where RFK probably could have made the difference one way or another for either candidate has now suspended his campaign and Endorsed Trump and he said he's going to be bringing over some other independents and Democrats with him, too

03:40

So just kind of watch that in the next few weeks will be very interesting to see how that endorsement plays out and RFK Excuse me

03:50

Did his speech yesterday? I believe it was just talking about how that he never left the Democratic Party the Democratic Party has left him

03:56

How they are pro fascism pro communism You know pro -death therefore censored speech there for Industrial war complex, which is pretty crazy because in my lifetime we've seen even the war stuff flip to where Republicans were usually your

04:14

Hawks or I'm sorry your neocons and And Democrats were more hawkish on international wars and now we've since Obama we've seen that go totally the other way but Yeah, RFK endorsing

04:27

Trump is is big news. Also, too. I saw this meme and It had some truth to it

04:35

Excuse me. It looks like it's an AI generated meme the two guys talking in six different panels But it just has questions and answers and I want you guys to think about these

04:43

Because I love a good philosophical meme, right? And You can you can you can kind of hear these questions from or these statements from atheists and here's some questions that You can give them back.

04:57

There's a guy says there is no truth. We've heard that there is no truth And the other guy says is that true?

05:03

How are you determining that there is no truth? The second one is truth is unknowable and the other guy says well, how do you know that?

05:12

Right, how do you know you're making a statement that truth is unknowable. How do you know that? The third panel says there are no absolutes.

05:19

We hear this a lot from the left subjective morality There are no absolutes and the guy he says answers him.

05:24

It goes. Absolutely. Are there absolutely no absolutes? You're making an absolute statement about absolutes Only your five senses provide real knowledge says the one man the other man says say say which of the five making a point that Your conscience your

05:45

You actually thinking it Is outside of the five senses? So say which one of the five because by you saying that you're saying there's more than the five senses that are

05:55

Helping you to provide real knowledge the fifth panel is logical arguments are not evidence and the guy says what's your evidence for that and then the last panel only the physical realm is real and The guy says that claim itself is not physical.

06:11

So it's self -refuting. I just found this Entertaining and also enlightening because I love memes that just pack a lot of knowledge into just very simple points and what this meme was doing is

06:24

It's showing you that there are statements and mostly we hear these these statements the first statements that I was saying from the left from the secular

06:34

From the progressive and very simple questions You can ask to that when someone says there is no truth and you say how do you know?

06:41

That's true. Is that true? You know truth is unknowable. How do you know? Right. So the left is very good at trying to attack the absolutes of the believer

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When in fact, they're making absolute statements that have No logical basis and our fallacies in and of themselves.

06:59

So I'll post that The X and to social media you can take a look at it but kind of just a really quick six -point guide on how you can refute some of the things that You hear within secular realms that just don't make any logical sense

07:15

But those are the only two things I got for you guys This week we're gonna get into it with Doug Wilson.

07:21

Like I said is the Constitution dead? How do Christians respond to it? Are we blowing it up starting over?

07:28

Are we amending it? Are we adhering to it as is and what does the Christian do in response to?

07:35

The country that we're living in now, but it was a as always Pastor Doug Wilson very gracious at this time.

07:41

I think the episode only went maybe 30 35 minutes but and at the end we did ask him about his

07:48

Tucker Carlson appearance and He gave us some kind of inside information on that so you can watch to the end

07:55

That was the last question that was kind of off subject, but I just had to ask One of Tucker's more popular

08:03

Episodes it was with pastor Doug Wilson if you haven't seen that go go check that out I find that very interesting. But all right, here we go more

08:09

Doug Wilson next So so good to have your dog. Thanks for coming back on the podcast.

08:14

Appreciate it. Happy to do it Yeah, so there's a lot been going on. It seems like every two weeks on Twitter We have something new to argue about and I don't

08:24

Don't particularly pay a lot of attention to most of it because I have a real life and a real job and we homeschool and real estate and Don't want to spend that much time online arguing with people.

08:35

I don't know But I did see a month or so ago something came up and it was trending and it said is the

08:43

Constitution dead? And when I looked into that I went well, this is something I've been saying for a while It feels like it's functionally dead

08:51

I feel like the federal government has become so large and we have so many regulations and so many different things that Functionally, it seems like we don't adhere to a lot of it and it got me thinking of How do we view the

09:04

Constitution as believers, especially as I probably hold very closely to The the same thing you do as a

09:12

Presbyterian I'm a general equity theonomist and and believe that there is a probably a place for the

09:19

Constitution But might need to be reworked in some aspects but people saying the

09:24

Constitution is dead There's there's a minority of them saying hey We blow it all up and we kind of start over and I was wondering your thoughts on that as I have you here for a few minutes

09:33

First and foremost, how do we view the Constitution as a believer when we're looking at New Covenant Old Covenant?

09:38

We're believers and then we see the Constitution What are your thoughts there? First I think that the

09:46

Constitution is Not only a lawful form of government if followed but the

09:53

I think the Constitution as written is a work of theological genius

10:00

And and I think that we could do nothing

10:05

There are very few things that we could do that would be better than Returning to the Constitution.

10:11

I think that there may be some Sandpapered spots that I would want to see here and there but I'd like to do that in Accordance with the way that was adopted for amending the

10:21

Constitution. So I'd like to see it I'd like to see everything done decently in an order when

10:28

I look at the discussions With the people who want to blow it all up or bulldoze it and start over.

10:35

I have no confidence that What they came up with? After they started over would be anywhere close to as good as the

10:44

Constitution So yeah, I'm on the same page there with you But I feel like there's a pendulum swing going on and I think it happens in politics

10:53

I think it happens within the Christian community within theology to where the pendulum goes too far one way

10:59

We seem to over correct. It feels like and Yeah, and you spoken a lot about growing up.

11:05

It's like growing up in a church. That's full of hypocrisy and then walking away disillusioned and Starting your own religion.

11:14

Well, your own religion is probably going to be a whole lot worse than the church full of hypocrites the yeah better way the better way would be to work for Reformation within with within the

11:28

Institution that at one time was healthy and Orthodox Yeah, I kind of saw it in my own life to going to a very fun

11:34

Mentalist legalistic church when I was younger and then we swing that pendulum all the way to the full charismatic

11:41

Pentecostal gold coming from the ceilings. It's it's kind of like you abandon one you go you over correct So I see it, you know spiritually we also see it politically

11:51

What what are the rough spots you mentioned that you would just out of curiosity the rough spots in the Constitution where you'd like to kind Of sand those and smooth those over Yeah, so the the men who drafted the

12:02

Constitution were doing so in a society that was overwhelmingly Christian and So when they were talking about for example religious tests for office

12:12

They were talking about the differences between Presbyterians and Baptists that they

12:19

The the colonies were overwhelmingly Christian and They were assuming that that was the way it was going to continue to be which has not been the case and and so not all not all religions are worldview neutral when it comes to things like Free institutions and so constant

12:45

Consequently there has to be some sort of we have to have some firewalls that acknowledge.

12:50

I would say acknowledge the Lordship of Christ Yeah, it's very strange because I've even heard within Christian communities of we've got this mantra of Separating ourselves or distancing the

13:06

Christianity that was really intertwined with many of the founding fathers With the

13:12

Constitution and we see it even in major evangelical circles where they go Well, no, there was deus and there which was true.

13:20

There were there were some differing Ideologies and theologies there, but boy you read books like God and government,

13:26

I think DeMar And some other folks that really dig into the history and you've even spoken on it.

13:32

I know Some guys from your church will even post the Presbyterian revolt right talking about the

13:39

Revolutionary War and you even speaking about after some major constitutional

13:45

Issues take place We have national days of prayer and you had the Supreme Court's saying we need to you know

13:51

Basically return to God and things like that It blows my mind that we can just erase that history and it seems like we kind of want to the secularists definitely want to But what is this trend towards even the majority of non -denominational evangelical

14:06

Christians going? No We we have to erroneously state this separation of church and state which we know that's taken out of context when we talk about that It was a letter written, you know and not talking about what they're saying

14:17

Why do you think there we want to distance ourself from the Constitution and from kind of the

14:22

Christianity that helped form it? Chesterton says somewhere that Satan fell by the force of gravity.

14:30

We we sinned we sinned downhill We sin intellectually we sin intellectually because we're lazy

14:40

It's it's easy to fall down And it's hard to stand up. That's that's the short answer going back here

14:48

And we've and it's easy to it's easy and the lazy way to believe lies that were fed

14:54

So for example when someone says the founders were the founders were deists That's technically true in that some of them were like around 2 % right minority, right so And even the ones that you could say had were influenced by deism

15:14

Jefferson and Franklin Preeminently, they were very bad deists because they believed because they believed that God intervenes in human affairs which

15:25

Enlightenment deism denied God just created the world then walked off Yeah, and then when

15:31

Thomas Paine who was not technically a founder He wrote of an immensely popular track called common -sense that was a big influence in the

15:40

Revolutionary Period but then later when he wrote his book age of reason

15:45

The the whole founding generation came down on him like like white on rice

15:51

Every he was just he he was rejected and ostracized for his in for his infidelity

16:00

So I think it's it's beyond Dispute that the United States in its founding was an overwhelmingly

16:08

Christian culture led by overwhelmingly Christian leaders at the

16:14

Constitutional Convention There were 55 men there and out of the 55 50 of them were

16:21

Orthodox Trinitarian Christians Yeah Yeah, and that's that's just a historical fact, but it just boggles my mind that we can look back at Well documented facts and just kind of ignore those.

16:34

It's it's really sad So we have a document like the Constitution people saying let's blow it up.

16:40

It's dead. I say Functionally, I think there are many aspects of it that we don't adhere to anymore.

16:46

Would you agree with that? I mean, there's just They're big they're big chunks of the

16:52

Constitution that are a dead letter Let's let's say just ninth and tenth amendments to the

16:58

Constitution are a dead letter Nobody pays any attention to them however, there are parts of the

17:06

Constitution that are very much alive and And this helps us to understand how constitutions work

17:16

Constitutions are simply pieces of paper Which means that if if we if we fly into Afghanistan Conquer it and give them all a piece of paper

17:27

That piece of paper will not accomplish anything whatever because Constitutions derive their vibrance from the hearts and minds of the people

17:40

Yeah, okay So and this is this is why the parts of our Constitution are still alive are still alive

17:48

The Second Amendment would be an example. All right. Why is why is the Second Amendment of the

17:54

Constitution? Still alive and vibrant well because Americans all think it is

18:01

Yeah, or have that attitude that they think it's important or something that we should uphold correct, so out of every 100

18:11

Americans there are about a hundred and twenty guns and everybody assumes believes that the they assume and believe that the

18:21

Second Amendment is a living vibrant Protection that they have and consequently it is yeah

18:29

That's the same. The same is true for parts of the First Amendment Many Americans still think that they have the freedom freedom of speech unfortunately, we're now divided where the

18:41

Democratic Party doesn't believe that anymore and It's being challenged, right?

18:47

And we're having battles over censorship but the reason we're having a battle is because millions of millions of Americans still believe they have the right to speak their mind and And so consequently that part of the

19:02

Constitution is still alive and kicking But the part that says anything the express powers

19:09

Part of the Constitution any power that's not given to the federal government Expressly belongs to the states or to the people that's just simply ignored.

19:20

Nobody thinks that's true Yeah, so you bring up a very good point here And I think we're on the same page because I realized this in my 20s.

19:28

I was a you know Walked around very proudly. I'm a conservative. I'm a conservative. Well, I don't even know what that means anymore 20 years later

19:35

You know, we have Christless conservatism everywhere but then I realized in my late 20s the

19:41

Lord saved me changed my heart and Kind of showed me exactly what you're saying is we can make all the laws and rules and amendments we want

19:48

But that Constitution reflects the the heart of the people the morality of the people and I think it was it was

19:55

Adams That might have said, you know, our Constitution is only for a moral and religious people. I might be Messing that up paraphrasing a little bit.

20:02

No, that's So so that's kind of where you've been and you kind of showed me this even

20:08

Probably 10 or 11 years ago and some talks that you had of this is why we preach the gospel and in the

20:15

Lord changes hearts because we can make all the amendments and have all the Incremental stuff politically and I'm not throwing that out

20:22

There's people who are working in that and I'm in you know, the public sphere the elected public sphere and all that but until the the hearts of the people change and they understand that Christ is

20:32

King then What are we doing? That's why the culture wars are I think so Important and why what you guys are doing out there in Moscow is so important preaching

20:40

Christ crucified Because the hearts of the people have to change right? We just have this kind of propped up Constitution, but functionally it's dead because the hearts of the people are corrupt and And and I feel that's why the attacks on the culture are so important especially from the far left even from the moderate

20:58

Evangelical world because if you can change the hearts and ideas and the belief of the people Well, like you said the

21:04

Constitution is just a piece of paper, correct? Yeah, just a just a piece of paper and and to finish the

21:11

Adams quote It was John Adams our Constitution presupposes a moral and a religious people and then he says it is wholly unfit for any other so if we if we drift into be if we become a nation of fornicating potheads

21:28

The Constitution is not capable of governing a people like that It's it's just gonna come apart in tatters

21:37

By what means do you think he meant that it's not it's unfit Why would it come apart if because the people are essentially they don't believe its founding principles of what it states

21:48

Yes, and they will they will Obtain power in order to abuse fellow citizens

21:57

And they will they will circumvent the Constitution They will say it really, you know

22:02

You'll start getting court decisions that say the right to keep and bear arms means that you don't have the right to keep in bear arms

22:09

You you will start to you'll you'll have Supreme Court Justices or nominees saying that they don't know what a woman is because they're not a biologist, right?

22:19

Well, if you don't if you don't know what a woman is or what a man is You don't know what a human is and if you don't know what a human is you don't know what human rights are

22:30

Right. Yeah, how can you everything everything is out the window? Yeah, so is there ever been a time in the country in your opinion where the

22:42

Constitution was functioning or the people were reflecting the principles of the Constitution as closely as the founders had envisioned

22:48

In so much and and I've read some things on Jefferson fighting for all men created equal some wording

22:54

Because they really that they understood with slavery going on and the economic impact that that was actually a compromise

23:01

There were some that that were abolitionists and said hey we need to and then there was a contingency that said look at will upheaval the economic

23:08

You know structure of the country if we abolish that and there was some give -and -take there to going they had a vision of well

23:16

Maybe in the future under these principles that would be eradicated Now once again, not an expert so I could be kind of skewing some stuff there

23:23

But I've read some stuff on that has there and I would say if you look back Maybe there's never a perfect.

23:29

There's never going to be a perfect country perfectly adhering to all the principles but is there a time where we can we were pretty darn close to to really reflecting what the

23:40

Founding Fathers had intentioned in the Constitution was there a time in America like that or are we just always?

23:46

Trying missing the mark and trying to get close. No, I I think that if we were an eight -cylinder engine

23:53

There have been there been a few times when we were running on six There's always there's always a difficulty somewhere there's always a fly in the ointment, but I would say that in the period after Reconstruction up through up to World War one was yeah

24:17

Decent it was a decent time constitutionally I think Woodrow Wilson was a disaster and I think the war between the state the war between the states was a convulsive disaster and Woodrow Wilson was a

24:32

Disaster, but I think that it was also relatively Healthy in the

24:37

Calvin Coolidge era Okay, and then things started to go seriously

24:43

South After the Second World War With the

24:48

Earl Warren court and the adoption of more radical secularism and so on So from the time of its adoption in 1789

24:59

Down through let's say 1830 Decent then the convulsion of the

25:04

Civil War real troubles then after reconstruction down to the First World War another decent period and then

25:12

The Calvin Coolidge era up through the Second World War and then our

25:18

Generation has seen it erode badly Okay, so you set out that's very accurate

25:25

So you set out a very good kind of up and down now for those believers out there That are maybe in politics or pay attention to this they go

25:32

Okay, but in the last 20 or 30 years, it feels like it's exponentially We're firing on maybe one or two cylinders to take your example, right?

25:42

Okay, we're by the side of the road hood up and fire Pushing pushing me.

25:48

We're trying to push the car. Okay So I can see the sentiment of hey go extreme and start all over So if we don't want to do that, how do we rescue?

26:00

the how do we rescue ourselves from from getting a people even a non -believer because I feel like even non -believers had some type of Transcendent morality written on the code of their hearts even even 50 60 70 years ago

26:13

It felt like they could tell the you know, we closed on Sunday. Okay. I'm not a believer, but I understand it

26:19

It's a day arrest. Whatever those Christians, right? Or even abortion was something where it was like no that's taking a life

26:27

They understood the basic concept of murder But now I feel like we've got people that are in bizarro world and they just go

26:34

Oh, yeah murder up to the you know right here in Michigan. I mean prop to pass constitutional amendment 57 % of people said hey if you want to have an abortion one second before the baby's born you can do that hey, you want to take a teacher wants to take a ten -year -old to get a sex change and Mutilate the genitals and not tell the parents that's constant.

26:53

That's a constitutional right in Michigan now That was voted for for by 57 % of Michigan. So we get what we deserve

27:00

But my point is how do we how do we save it then? I know we preach the gospel But but outside of that are there pragmatic things are there practical things that we can do instead of just blowing it all up Yeah, so I've I'll cite here a law that my son has formulated

27:21

I don't have a name for it yet But he said in any meeting that goes for longer than 20 minutes

27:27

Someone will propose something which if implemented will ruin everything. I Worked in the corporate world for 10 years.

27:36

That is so true. Yeah, so let's say we Everybody said oh, this is a disaster.

27:43

We need a convention of the states. We need a constitutional convention. I Have no assurance since we are not a moral and religious people

27:52

I have no assurance that what would come out of such a convention wouldn't be ten times worse than what what we have now

28:02

So consequently, I believe and because the Constitution which is a fine document has still has the instinctive loyalty of many many

28:14

Americans who still believe it's Operative or ought to be I would say

28:21

If I'm if I'm a salesman and I want to persuade Americans to do something good

28:26

Why wouldn't I try to persuade them to do something good that they're over halfway convinced of already if if I just get a room full of ideologues and I cook up this grand spanking new thing that nobody's ever heard of.

28:42

I've got a much harder task to sell anybody on that and other people are going to be pitching their crazy ideas at the same time and the chances are

28:53

Excellent outstanding that we're gonna come up with some some dogs breakfast

28:59

Yeah, could you give me a an actual example of that thing that maybe that average citizens out there?

29:06

You're saying they're already 50 % believer. They're already there on it. Why not have them continue in that? What would be an example of that in your mind?

29:14

All right, some trivial examples is They would they would say yeah

29:19

We should have two senators from every state even though one of them's Texas and one of them's Rhode Island Yeah, okay.

29:27

We should have two senators from every state at the same time. It makes sense. That's there's your Senate Yeah, it makes sense that the bigger states should have some way to your heft somewhere in this

29:38

So that's why we have the House of Representatives configured the way it's configured

29:44

Yeah, I think a man ought to be able to criticize the government speak his mind without being shut down by cancel call cancel culture culture and that's where the the enemies of the

29:59

The the enemies of the Constitution have really over have overreached in there

30:05

Yeah in their zeal to shut everybody up another one is It and this is just how

30:12

Americans think you could have people complain about the Electoral College, but it it was a work of genius

30:24

Yeah, it was a work of art because oh Nobody if you talk to the average guy you wouldn't say why don't we add up the total run scored?

30:34

during the World Series and Decide who won by total total runs.

30:42

Yeah, it's a that's dumb, right? You you count the games one.

30:48

You don't count the total runs. Yeah and that's that's the Electoral College in a nutshell, right and and so if I said earlier that the

30:59

Constitution is a work of Theological genius and this is what I meant by it

31:04

If you gave gave the Constitution to an educated foreigner who had never heard of any of these any of this and he and he studied the

31:15

Constitution worked through it and Saw what it was trying to do. He would come back and and I'd say

31:23

I'd ask him. What do you think the central? premise of the Constitution is

31:28

He would say it seems to me the central premise of your Constitution is never trust an

31:34

American Yeah, all right, so the the

31:40

Constitution budgets for human depravity Yeah Okay, and this is what

31:47

Madison Madison says in Federalist 53 maybe if it's one of the 50s

31:54

Madison says That you have to contrive a form of government that enables the government to govern the people while at the same time

32:03

Obligating it to govern itself Okay, that's the delegate. That's the delegate balance and so they came up with separation of powers checks and balances all of this that as opposed to Sue the the

32:17

Rousseau Ian view of democracy where everybody's view is so valuable that you've got to check with everybody before you do anything

32:25

And then you have this social contract that enables you to not check with anybody

32:31

Right. There's that Rousseau Ian view of democracy that has this lofty conceited flattering view of human nature

32:40

Then you have what CS Lewis called a more realistic view of democracy where you believe that everybody is so fallible

32:47

So messed up and so sinful that you want to spread the power as thinly as possible over everyone to keep

32:56

To keep the bad guys from seizing power now That was the ethos of the

33:02

American founding that they wanted limited government so every

33:07

Christian who believes in God's omnipotence must adhere to some polity that that affirms limited government

33:18

Limited government means that Christ is Lord and man is not When when you reject when you reject the sovereignty of God What what the proud and conceited

33:31

Caesar sees is a job opening? All right Hey, I can do that.

33:37

I could be God Yeah, I can do that. And first thing, you know, you've got cameras at every intersection.

33:43

You've got surveillance everywhere You've got people Tracking every keystroke on your computer.

33:50

Why because they're aspiring to deity They want to be omnipotent. They want to be omnipotent.

33:56

They want to be omnipresent Yeah, they want the character of God. Yeah, they want to send the sides of the north.

34:05

Oh Man, yeah, that's so good. Yeah, it's pretty crazy to when I was very young as we finish up here, too

34:11

You know, I realized probably when I was eight or nine that democracy pure democracy was pretty easily

34:19

Manipulated, you know, we'd get the group of kids together You had that gang that 10 or 12 kids that yeah, you know,

34:24

I grew up in the 80s So it was like mom let you out at 8 o 'clock in the morning You didn't come back till 8 o 'clock at night. You drink out of hose water and just ran around in the neighborhood

34:32

We get all the kids together and there was one kid that was a little little more well -off And we'd always vote on what to play wet or what game to play and he came out and he's giving

34:41

Rice Krispie treats out To everyone. Oh, that's nice. And we're all sitting there eating on the stoop and he goes, so what do you guys want to play?

34:49

And I went and we always seem to vote for what he wanted to do the guy with the Rice Krispie treats And I realized oh as a young kid,

34:56

I was like eight or nine I went oh just voting for something could be manipulated pretty easily get other people on your side

35:02

You know, I didn't know what I was working through in my head as a nine or ten year old but we've got a lot of adults out there especially on the kind of liberal

35:11

Democratic side of the aisle that think pure democracy is Something we should strive for when the

35:17

Republic that we have the Constitutional Republic boy And when you you know is such a safeguard against that and it's all shifting and it makes me very worried because when

35:27

I talk to other adults that should be At least have a level of common sense of understanding that pure democracy is right

35:35

Whatever Franklin said to two wolves and a sheep voting votes for dinner, you know How can we not see that and then you have something in in?

35:46

In the you know in the electoral vote too that was protected against that not to go back to that But it's such a work of genius of understanding that you would have you know million per back then, you know million person states

35:57

Clearly out voting the two hundred thousand person states for certain rights and things they want to do but apps

36:04

I'm mindful of two definitions of democracy that HL Mencken came up with one of them was the ascertaining of truth by the means of counting noses and promulgating it afterwards with a club

36:21

The other definition of democracy was the art and science of running the zoo from the monkey house

36:30

Yeah, no, that's true. All right, let's finish up here So so final word final kind of thought because like I said,

36:37

I struggle personally as someone who is locally elected involved in politics, but also

36:43

Just did a podcast last night with the provoked folks out there an apology of studio on how we evangelize Whether that be with family street preaching going just just going throughout our day

36:53

And very convicted about that and making sure I'm preaching the gospel and knowing that only

36:59

God can change hearts And when when hearts are changed, that's when countries can be changed.

37:05

So there's this kind of Weird to world worlds. I'm in I'm all about policy and I love to see you know

37:12

Guys like Dusty Deaver's for instance in office and in standing firm on godly principles and making legislative change

37:19

But I also know that preaching the gospel and only God can change hearts So so I'm caught in between these two where I get conflicted

37:26

Sometimes I go am I going in one direction too much and I know it sounds weird to say one direction and preaching the gospel

37:32

Too much, but but sometimes I look at it let's say an open -air preacher who's screaming at the top of his lungs on the corner of a street and Everyone's walking by him ignoring him and I go

37:45

I don't know Maybe he could be a little more effective if you were in the statehouse, right? Like there's balance there So, where do we make that balance when we view the

37:52

Constitution when we view how how we make godly change within a civil authority?

37:59

So I would say two things one is we should view this first as a body life thing

38:05

We are each of us finite and we can't do everything. So Some guys a barber and he serves

38:13

Christ by cutting hair all day And that's what he that's what he should continue to do. The preacher of the gospel should preach the politician should

38:22

Make godly laws and we should all labor and then the preacher who know who knows what the word says should

38:30

Support and teach and encourage the statesman and and so on so it's it really is a body life at thing

38:36

It's not like we all have to drop whatever we're doing and go do the one thing That I don't think that that's true we ought to zoom out and ask ourselves what should the body of Christ Generally be involved in and the answer to that is everything all of Christ for all of life.

38:55

All right, so That's the first thing the second thing Is that we should remind ourselves of the of the of our history?

39:04

So it's not a matter of do I do this one thing or this other thing? It's the recognition that this why is not going to be successful until X happens

39:17

Okay. Now I should be laboring faithfully at why but I know that if I should be tilling the ground and Tending the crop and at the same time praying for rain

39:29

Because I know that if I don't get the rent if I don't get the rain This is not going to happen, but I still plow and weed and do the things

39:37

I ought to do And then there's two instances in Anglo -american history that I would point people to The evangelical awakening in England and the

39:49

Great Awakening in America both were part of the same movement and happened roughly at the same time the

39:56

Wesley's and George Whitefield in England and it has been wisely said that that awakening in England Was one of the reasons why

40:07

England didn't have their version of the French Revolution Okay The French Revolution was this total leveling disastrous thing and it sort of released the demons into the modern age and and England was preserved from that because of preachers all right, but because of the evangelical awakening which

40:34

Transformed England 18th century England was a cesspool it was the aristocracy was disease riddled with vice and the and the common people were oppressed and and abused and the evangelical awakening addressed a

40:52

Lot of that. So that's one example. The other example would be the Great Awakening in In America, I'm convinced that without the labors of George Whitefield over here

41:05

The American War for Independence which happened just a few decades before our

41:10

War for Independence Without the labor. I became convinced a number of years ago that a second

41:16

GW was a second father of our country George Whitefield and George Washington One was one was the political military political

41:25

Father of our country. I believe that George Whitefield was the ecclesiastical father of our country because had that Great Awakening not happened the

41:36

War for Independence either would not have happened or would not have gone the way it did

41:42

And so consequently it's not like it's not like we're praying for something when we're farming this in this dust bowl

41:49

That we're currently farming in it's not as though praying for rain has never been answered

41:56

God has answered God has answered that prayer in history before and there's no reason why we

42:03

Shouldn't be asking him to hear us again Yeah, love it. You know, it's so it's so great to hear you talk about that to My one of my pastors

42:13

David Bailey for our 9 a .m Sunday school in summer were all as a church in Sunday school together and we're walking through that the wit and he couldn't

42:22

He would just kept emphasizing the effect that Whitfield had because that's where we're at in church history right now

42:28

And I really opened my eyes to it. I knew the name I knew kind of what he did Oh, he's a good preacher

42:34

But really the effect he had during that 30 years of just selfless preaching and what what he did

42:41

Yeah, very important. So I'm kind of fun to hear you kind of say the same thing Alright last question has nothing to do the subject, but I just got to ask how is the how as we finish here, how has the

42:54

The results of being on Tucker been a lot of good feedback bad feedback

43:00

I know that happened a month or two ago. It was a surprise to a lot of us. We said, oh my gosh I can't believe there's four million people tuning in to watch

43:08

Tucker Carlson and Doug Wilson Any death threats from the crazies or how was it?

43:14

The Reactions have been overwhelmingly positive. Okay, and That's one thing and the second thing is it it has opened a lot of other doors so what is basically we've been under embargo here in Moscow for many years and there's a respectable type of Evangelical leader that cannot afford to Name me.

43:44

I'm the one who must not be named and a number of other doors and opportunities

43:49

Have opened up as a result of that Yeah, it's it's so good.

43:55

I love when I meet people and they say oh Wow, I mean just look at that just shot right to some type of celebrity and I said, yeah

44:05

It only took him 40 or 50 years of pastoring a church to get an interview It was so quick Okay.

44:13

All right. Enough of that. All right pastor Doug. Thank you so much for being here taking some time with us explaining some things

44:18

Giving your opinion. I really appreciate you Yeah, good to be with you. Thanks All right, guys.

44:24

Thanks for listening to another episode of dead men walking podcast as always you can find out more about us dmw podcast .com

44:30

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44:41

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44:47

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44:55

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