August 15, 2018 Show with Kevin Cottrell, Christina Miller, & Doug Totter on “Help for Parents of Autistic Children from Parents of Autistic Children”

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Live from the historic parsonage of 19th century gospel minister George Norcross in downtown

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Carlisle, Pennsylvania, it's Iron Sharpens Iron, a radio platform on which pastors,

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Christian scholars and theologians address the burning issues facing the church and the world today.

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Proverbs 27 verse 17 tells us, iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another.

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Matthew Henry said that in this passage, quote, we are cautioned to take heed whom we converse with and directed to have in view in conversation to make one another wiser and better.

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It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next hour and we hope to hear from you, the listener, with your own questions.

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Now here's our host, Chris Arnton. Good afternoon,

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Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida, and the rest of humanity living on the planet Earth who are listening via live streaming at ironsharpensironradio .com.

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This is Chris Arnton, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Wednesday on this 15th day of August 2018, and I am so delighted to have this program today.

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It's a very important program. We only discussed this issue once before on the old

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Iron Sharpens Iron radio program broadcasting out of New York, and only one of our three guests today was a part of that program, but today we have three guests with us.

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We don't normally have that many guests, but I'm so delighted, first of all, I'll introduce them one by one.

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For the first time ever on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, my dear old friend Kevin Cottrell, who is currently program director at Salem Media Group in the greater

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New York City area, and morning host of Coffee with Kevin on AM 570,

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The Mission, WMCA radio, and Kevin and I were colleagues for a number of years,

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I think at least a decade of the 15 years I worked for Salem Media, and it's so great to have you for the very first time on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, Kevin Cottrell.

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Thank you, Chris. It's a pleasure to be here. And do you remember approximately what year, because I had worked for Salem and WMCA for a few years at least before Salem purchased 970DJ, where you were working, and then we became colleagues at that point and worked there,

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I believe, at least a decade or more. What year was that when Salem, I should say, purchased 970DJ?

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Actually, it was 1994. Great, yeah, so I was there three years. Yeah. Okay, yeah, and then they brought us all down into one facility,

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WMCA and WWDJ together, and yeah, we worked there for quite a few years together, but 94 was when it all started.

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Yeah, so I worked with you for 12 years out of the 15 years that I was there, so it was always a great pleasure working with you.

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I can't remember bumping heads with you too many times, but I think we always enjoyed a good laugh. Oh, really? I mean, you know, yeah, we pretty much were on the same page as far as biblically and in every other way, and, you know, it was a very pleasurable...

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I tried to do whatever I could on the talent side to help you guys in sales, and there were a number of, you know, things that you were doing that I was definitely in support of and trying to help you, whether it be with the pastors or trying to get programs on the air.

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It was a great relationship. Amen. I remember it very fondly. I also remember having a good laugh on occasion when

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I had to escape the basic headaches of the average workday.

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I'd go into your studio there, sometimes perhaps interrupting something important. I used to enjoy going in there, and you and I would enjoy a good laugh, and then

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I'd have to go back to the real world, but... A little brevity once in a while helped us get through the day.

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Amen. Well, it's so great to have you on the program, and now I'd like to introduce, for the very first time also to Iron Trip and Zion Radio, Christina Miller.

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She is mom to one child with autism and to another child with sensory processing disorder, and she's a blogger at nurturingmindfully .com,

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and I'll bet you the last time I saw Christina was when she was a little girl herself when

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I was visiting the church where her father pastors. Her father is Meint Plogman, and he pastors the

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Orthodox Presbyterian Church of Bohemia, Long Island, New York, and I had visited there on several occasions, but that was many years ago, so I'm certain that you were either not born or a little girl, but it's my pleasure to welcome you for the very first time ever,

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Christina Miller. Thank you so much. It's so good to be here. Great, and please send my greetings to your mom and dad, and I miss them greatly.

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In fact, your dad was quite a frequent guest on the old Iron Trip and Zion Radio out of New York.

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He used to come into the studio and do our pastor's roundtable that we had every

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Friday on the program, and I always had a very high regard for him. In fact,

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I think he was once a member of the church that eventually became Grace Reformed Baptist Church of Merrick, Long Island, First Baptist Church of Merrick, am

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I correct? Was he once a member there? Yeah. Yeah, that's what I thought. He was actually, yeah, the youth pastor.

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Right. He was the youth pastor there. Great, and last but not least, a man who has been on the program before.

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It's been a while, though. One of my former pastors over at Grace Reformed Baptist Church of Long Island in Merrick, New York, the church

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I just mentioned, he co -pastors along with Mark Romaldi there, and it's my honor and privilege to welcome you back after a long absence,

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Pastor Doug Totter. Thanks, Chris. It's really a privilege to be on the show again, and I'm glad that I'm on the new show.

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I've been on the show for a while, but I thought it was something wrong, you know, something I had done.

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Well, has the party ever died down ever since I left Grace Reformed Baptist Church?

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No, no, but it's a great privilege. I hope I can contribute to something today, it's a great topic, and I'm looking forward to it.

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Great. Now, do you have a dog yelping in the background? Yeah, I'm sorry. I'm watching my son's dog, so I'm sorry about that.

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That's all right. Well, I'm going to give our email address for anybody listening who wants to send in a question.

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It's chrisarnsen at gmail .com, C -H -R -I -S -A -R -N -Z -E -N at gmail .com.

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I'm actually going to do this program today in honor of a dear friend of myself and one of our guests today,

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Andy Anderson. Andy Anderson, who was the in -house talk show host of WMCA for a number of years.

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He is now spending eternity with Christ. I had actually had the pleasure of filling in for Andy for at least two weeks after he went home to be with the

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Lord, and so I'm doing this program in honor of him. It was such a joy working with Andy, and it was such a joy to develop a strong friendship with him.

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It began as I think it was called Live from New York initially, then it became

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Andy Anderson Live. Do you remember the exact titles, Kevin? Yeah, I think Andy Anderson Live was the final name.

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Talk New York, I think, was the first one. Was it Talk New York? That was probably just before I got there.

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Right, right. But he was a dear brother, and I miss him dearly. I also miss his wife, Ann, who's

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I believe still with us, and we'd love for her to get a hold of this MP3 eventually.

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But Christina Miller, I'd like you to start off the program by giving our listeners a definition of what autism is.

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So autism is considered a neurodevelopmental disability, which is a big word, but basically it's a neurological condition that affects the brain and the nervous system the way that their brains develop is differently from how our brains develop, and it can present itself in a number of different ways.

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It's considered a spectrum disorder because kids can be very mild and considered very high functioning and just show symptoms, or they can go all the way to being completely nonverbal, noninteractive, and on the more extreme end of the spectrum.

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The main sort of symptoms that are in common for each child with autism is that you see social and communication problems, difficulty navigating social situations, and sensory issues, which when we talk about sensory issues, we're talking about the way that your brain processes the information that you've taken through your five senses, your sight, your hearing, your touch, your, you know, the five senses, the way that your brain interprets it and understands the world.

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So kids on the spectrum have trouble with that processing, and they can sometimes experience sounds louder or smell things stronger, and the world can become very overwhelming for them as a result of that.

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And by the way, folks, I think this is the first time I've ever done this in all the years I've hosted

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Ion Trip and Zion Radio going back to 2005. I didn't even announce the theme of our show, which

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I'm sure you guessed by now it is on autism. The specific thing we are addressing today, the specific title is help for parents of autistic children from parents of autistic children.

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And so I hope that you, if you haven't already, start emailing and texting and even calling your friends, family, and loved ones who may have autistic children or have loved ones with autistic children so they can benefit from the show.

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Obviously, you can always share the MP3 with them later as well. Just before we go on to our other guest,

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Christina, tell us something about sensory processing disorder, which your other child has.

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So sensory processing disorder, it's something that children who have autism experience.

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But when you have a diagnosis of sensory processing disorder alone, it's missing those other elements of being on the autism spectrum.

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So my daughter, Adelaide, who has sensory processing disorder, she functions very well socially.

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She has great motor skills. She doesn't have the repetitive nature, the tics, the stimming that my daughter with autism had.

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It's really just that sensory piece. So it's, again, that piece of the way that her brain interprets the information that she brings in through her five senses.

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It's just not quite interpreting it quickly enough or efficiently enough.

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So things can become very overwhelming to her. In her case specifically, she is hypersensitive to touch and to sound.

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So, for example, public bathrooms are very difficult with her because the hand dryers are so loud to her that we really just can't even use them.

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I have to carry things in my purse to just have alternate things ready for her at any given time.

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The other thing, we have to give her deep pressure massage twice a day so she can tolerate the feeling of her clothing against her skin.

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So that and another. Now it's interesting that you have two children with these two unique disorders.

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Did the doctors tell you why you had two different children with these?

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I mean, is it just an act of providence that has no medical reason that you had two different children with two different disorders like this?

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And just also because of our politically correct world, is it proper for me to use the term disorder?

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I don't know how I should be phrasing this. Yes, well, the official diagnosis is sensory processing disorder and autism spectrum disorder.

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Okay, so I was okay with that. You can use the word disorder, yes. I mean, sometimes I'm very active in the community and sometimes

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I can't even keep up with PT and whatnot. But yeah, it's the technical diagnosis is disorder.

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Now, as I was asking, did the physicians give you any medical reason why you had two children with these two different disorders or is it just the providence of God and his sovereignty that this occurred?

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Well, the jury is still out as to what causes autism and other spectrum disorders like ADHD, sensory processing disorder.

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All of those things kind of fall under the same sort of neurodevelopmental disability.

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They don't really know why, but they have found genetic evidence. Family history has a lot to do with it.

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So, you know, that's what I tend to think.

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It's just genetic. But, you know, there are things that they're starting to be able to learn from CAT scans about differences in their brains.

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For example, the amygdala is enlarged, which your amygdala is the part of your brain that processes your feelings.

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So they might become angrier or feel any emotion really more intensely than neurotypical people or people who don't have these disorders in their neurological system.

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So there has been different breakthroughs like that. But as far as the cause, there really isn't a known cause.

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And Kevin Cottrell, unless my memory is failing me, I think you have more than one child with autism, do you not?

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I've only got one. I have two daughters. My oldest daughter, for lack of a better term, is normal.

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And my younger daughter, Brittany, she has what was diagnosed at nine months old when we were alerted to the fact that she wasn't meeting her milestones and that we should take her to a neurologist.

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He diagnosed her, this was back in 1991 or 2, as PDD, Pervasive Developmental Disorder.

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Now, basically, back then, even though they now include it in the autistic spectrum, you'll see it written as PDD slash autism.

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Back then, they said that she had autistic tendencies but didn't feel she was truly autistic.

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She also had CB, cerebral palsy tendencies, low muscle tone, which she has from head to toe, but they didn't consider her

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CP. But the label, if nothing more, and I want to stress this for people listening, it is important to try to narrow it down to some kind of a label because that at least will help your child get services because the organizations that are out there and in the state of New Jersey, everything's funneled through the

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Division of Developmental Disabilities, which is the state -run agency that works with all of the other agencies that give you services, whether it's

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CP services or autistic services, and those organizations will contact you once you register your child with the state and let you know that they have services that might assist you.

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And my daughter, as Christina said, being that she is on the autistic spectrum, she's on the low end.

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She just turned 28, and mentally is like a three -year -old.

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And my daughter doesn't even look like she's 28. She looks like she's a teenager. Wow. I said wow because it's amazing how fast time flies.

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It's totally amazing. I know. Yeah. Yeah. She comprehends a great deal, but her ability to communicate, she's got very limited sign.

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She's got a very large single -word vocabulary, but still has a very difficult time communicating her needs.

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But when you talk to her, she understands, and you can give her all kinds of things to do, whether it's to close the door, turn on a light, flush a toilet.

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She needs constant assistance and prompting, but she does comprehend very well, but still is like a child.

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And currently my daughter is in a group home, is functioning very well, but she will need constant supervision and care for the rest of her life.

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And when you were talking about when she was a very young child, that she was not reaching milestones, and the doctors were getting concerned, and they initially didn't think it was full -blown autism, but what were these milestones specifically that she wasn't reaching or making?

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She wasn't sitting up. She wasn't holding her bottle. She wasn't doing the kinds of things that a normal nine -month -old would do.

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She was in daycare at the time, and one of the mothers, who was an RN, said that she had noticed this and suggested we talk to our pediatrician, which we did.

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And she recommended a neurologist on Long Island, who saw her and said basically that she's developmentally delayed.

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We don't know where that's going to go, how she will progress, and then he said

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I would consider her Pervasive Developmental Disorder, or PVD. And Doug Totter, my former pastor, tell us about your own situation with Ruthie, and when you realized, and how you realized, that there was something not quite right, and you had to seek a physician's advice.

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As it turns out, I'm just getting Ruthie off the bus. Her name is Ruth, and she goes to a day program, an adult day program now, and she's 26 years old, and she has a very similar diagnosis,

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I would say, to Kevin's daughter. She was diagnosed with autism, or autism spectrum, at about three to four years old, and at that time, though, the first doctor we went to told us that she was not meeting any of the milestones, and was profoundly retarded, and would only get worse.

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It was a gloomy prediction by this one doctor, but we persevered, and by God's grace, got her properly diagnosed as being on the autism spectrum, having autism.

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She also does have mild cerebral palsy, which is not uncommon. She does have mental retardation, so she's 26, but probably around a five -year -old level mentally, and has now, more recently, was diagnosed with retinitis pigmentosa, which is an eye disease, which will eventually lead to blindness, but she is the delight, the joy of our lives, and really, she lives at home.

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She's in a good day program, but we were, as Kevin said, the diagnosis was important for us, because we needed to get her services, the best services we could, and you have to have a diagnosis, even in New York State, and so when she was diagnosed with autism, then we were able to get her into Developmental Disability Institute, and they were able to do the kind of schooling that she needed to help us, and she made progress in there.

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She did eventually become verbal, which she wasn't initially, and she's been making some progress since, but it's a trial, and you never know how these things come about, as Christina was saying, that we really haven't come to any concrete conclusions as far as what causes autism, but we've realized as being believers that as Christians, we believe in a sovereign

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God, and he does all things well, and I was going to recommend a book that we found very helpful.

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It's by Kathy Steer that's called Too Wise to be Mistaken, Too Good to be

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Unkind, and it looks at it from a Christian perspective, and a sovereignty of God perspective, and a

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God's goodness perspective, that these children that God gives us are given for all good, and I can really say that, and I know

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Kevin would agree, and Christina as well, that it's not easy raising a handicapped child, and it hasn't been for us either, but, and this would apply to all different types of handicaps, not just autism, but any kind of, you know,

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Down syndrome, mental retardation, any kind of handicaps for your children.

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It's, you know, a believer that we know that they're for all good, and for us, it's been just a joy and a delight to raise

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Ruthie, and to the good times in the bed, and we're thankful. We've seen, you can look,

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I can look back at our wives, my wife and I, Denise, we've been married for 33 years, and we have seven children, and so Ruthie is the only one that has a disability like this, and I think a disability, so, but we're just thankful that the

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Lord has enabled us to be a blessing to Ruthie, and we know how much of a blessing

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Ruthie is to us, and to the church. We're very thankful that we, right from the beginning, have been into, been in a good church.

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Originally, we were in Calvary Baptist in Amityville, because I know you know Calvary Baptist in Amityville became, after a merger, became

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Grace Reformed Baptist Church, the First Baptist Church of Merrick, and Calvary Baptist in Amityville merged in 95, and being a part of a good church, we were able to be supported by the church, and helped by the church, and encouraged by the church, and still continues today.

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The people of God are wonderful in the church, and they accept Ruthie, and she goes to church every week, and she just loves the people there, they love her, and we've, you know, we've numerous, numerous times have been blessed by our church, and people of God, so it isn't easy, but God is,

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God is wise, all wise, and sovereign, and he's good. Amen. And in fact,

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I can recall that I tried to get the author of that book you recommended on the old show, but she was too shy, she was not a big fan of being interviewed.

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Maybe she's changed her mind by now, and I can have her back on, or should

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I say have her on for the first time. You mentioned cerebral palsy.

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When I remember Ruthie, when I was a member there at Grace Reformed Baptist Church, I don't remember seeing signs of cerebral palsy.

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Is that something that developed later, or did she always have that? No, no, it's mild, it affects her, which

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Ruthie also had many, many sensory issues. She didn't, wasn't, was nonverbal at first, had many sensory issues, just like Christina is describing with her daughter, but which is not uncommon with autism, and she has fine motor skill disabilities and sensory issues, and so they classified it as mild cerebral palsy.

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She's got an awkward gait, you know, in a walk, and some, so that's why it's not full -blown cerebral palsy, but it's mild, but it just, you know, there had to be a lot of physical therapy and occupational therapy through the years, and again, all the, you know, the help we've gotten through the years has really been a blessing, even just in the school she was in, and the therapist she had, and even since her diagnosis of retinitis pigmentosa, we got her vision therapy, and that's been a blessing, and actually one of my daughters, my daughter

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Sarah, who's her older sister by two years, went into the field of vision therapy because of Ruthie, and you know, they all, that's another blessing we have, is that all of our children really love

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Ruthie, and we can, we know that we're going to not be here forever, we're going to go to be with the

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Lord at some point, we can know, be confident that they'll see to it that Ruthie is well taken care of, and that's a great relief to any parent, just disabled children is what happens after you, you know, you die, and we go to be with the

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Lord, and who cares for you, who cares at that point, and but we know that our children care, and church cares too as well, so we're thankful for that.

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Amen. We're going to go to our first station break, if you would like to join us on the air with a question of your own for our guest today about autism, or even just a general question about parenting a child with a disability, our email address is chrisarnsen at gmail .com,

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c -h -r -i -s -a -r -n -z -e -n at gmail .com, please give us your first name at least, your city and state of residence, and your country of residence if you live outside the

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USA, please only remain anonymous if your question involves a matter. That's chrisarnsen at gmail .com,

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that's c -h -r -i -s -a -r -n -z -e -n at gmail .com, don't go away, we'll be right back with our three guests and our discussion on help for parents of autistic children from parents of autistic children.

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Hi, Phil Johnson here, I'm executive director of John MacArthur's media ministry, Grace To You, and I'm also an occasional guest on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, so I'm delighted that from January 17th through the 19th, my friend

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Chris Arnzen and I will be heading down to Atlanta for the G3 conference, where I'll be joining

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James White, Steve Lawson, Voti Baucom, Mark Dever, Conrad Mbewe, Todd Friel, Josh Bice, and a host of other speakers to address the topic of biblical understanding of missions.

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He has given me permission to broadcast prayer requests for him as he is going into a very serious and dangerous and delicate and complicated open heart surgery.

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He is going in for surgery prep on August 23rd, which is a

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Thursday. In fact, that's next week. And he is going into surgery itself the following morning,

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Lord lovingly and graciously placing him into this trial by his providence for his purposes.

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And we appreciate your prayers for him. He is a dear friend, and I have counted him a dear friend for many years and a mentor.

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And he was my very first pastor after becoming born again who immersed me in the waters of baptism. So Mike Gaydosh is very important to me.

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Continue to pray for him. We are now back to our discussion today with Kevin Cottrell, host of Coffee with Kevin on 570

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AM WMCA radio in New York, where I worked for 15 years. We also have

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Christina Miller on the program. And Christina is not only the daughter of a dear friend of mine,

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Mike Plugman of the Orthodox Presbyterian Church in Bohemia, Long Island, but she is also a blogger at nurturingmindfully .com.

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And Doug Totter, one of my former pastors at Grace Reform Baptist Church of Long Island in Merrick, New York.

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All three of my guests have autistic children, and our theme today is Help for Parents of Autistic Children from Parents of Autistic Children.

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And we do have a listener, RJ in White Plains, New York.

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And he asks, if you all three want to answer this question, that's fine, but we'll begin with Kevin Cottrell.

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RJ asks, what is specifically the difference between mental retardation and autism?

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Well, I'm not sure. I think that mental retardation is just an older term.

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To have mental disability, no matter whether you're autistic, or people that have

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CP, sometimes it just doesn't affect them in muscular ways, but also mentally.

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Not that I'm a doctor, and not that I have tremendous knowledge of the entire spectrum of disability.

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But if I'm correct, and maybe I'll defer to Christina, that the term is really kind of an outdated term.

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Mental retardation, I think, touches you know, people of all disabilities. Like it's an umbrella term.

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Yeah, yeah. I don't hear people using mental retardation anymore.

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I think it's more specifically the kind of disability, whether it's spina bifida, autism, cerebral palsy, you know, things like that.

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I think it now is in terms of what is more specific to that disability. And Christina, do you have any other definition?

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In fact, one of the things I wanted to ask about that, that you could also attach to that question, is that if I'm not mistaken, unlike people that we normally associate with mental retardation, who have a

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IQ perhaps, or a mental capability of a young child,

36:51

I know that some autistic people can be quite brilliant in certain areas of life.

36:58

Sometimes their autism, and you can correct me if I'm wrong, is more affects their social skills and other things like that, but they can be geniuses.

37:07

But if you could comment on that, Christina. Yes, I can comment on that.

37:15

So, there are, I think mental, I'm not sure if it's a completely outdated term or not, but I think it is fading out the term mental retardation.

37:27

There can be children on the autism spectrum who experience intellectual delays, or who don't mature intellectually as much or as quickly.

37:43

But then the flip side of that is, you have kids like my daughter who, and a lot of kids who would be on the

37:51

Asperger's sort of end of the spectrum, that are geniuses.

37:59

My daughter is one of them. She struggles with social skills, with basic functional living skills.

38:11

She can't tie her shoes. She has trouble staying focused and on task.

38:18

She has what they call a motor planning delay, so she can't, her brain can't organize to tell her body to do a task.

38:30

So, she can't ride a bike. It took like a three -week, eight -step process to teach her how to drink from a sippy cup, things like that.

38:40

But then on the other side of it, the verbal composite of her

38:45

IQ is 142. She was reading from the time she turned three, and when

38:53

I say reading, I mean we could open up to any song, and she could read it at three years old.

39:02

So, she's, you know, and I wanted to sort of echo something that Kevin and Doug both touched on, and the importance of getting the label.

39:16

And my daughter is on that high -functioning end of the spectrum, but for kids like my daughter, the schools really don't know what to do with them.

39:29

There's not really a place for them. So, getting these diagnoses are critical for getting the help from the school district.

39:41

You know, and I know that a lot of parents are hesitant to get a label and what that would mean for their child, but having that label has been nothing but good for my child, not just because of the help it has gotten her, but when she was about six years old, she was able to start telling that she was different, and why am

40:08

I different, and why am I having trouble getting along with other kids, and it's easy for them, and it's not easy for me, and, you know, she was intelligent enough to get that people don't get her.

40:22

So, being able to say to her, you have autism spectrum disorder, this is what it means, it actually gave her more self -confidence, more self -esteem, because rather than just being like, why, why, why, she was able to understand, okay, this is part of who

40:44

I am, and, you know, and I have this team of helpers that are helping me through it, and, you know, her different behavioral therapists, she got

40:54

PT, OT, speech, all of that. She has a psychologist that works with her with her anxiety and social skills, you know, and she was able to understand all of that, and I found it actually brought her a measure of peace.

41:12

But, sorry, I digress. Going back to the question, I think autism really speaks to the brain's ability to process and the speed at which it processes being able to communicate, to socialize, to read social cues, and then there are the physical components.

41:37

My daughter has low muscle tone, different things like that, but it may or may not have to do with an intellectual issue.

41:53

And if I could, if I can piggyback, yes, in fact, in fact, all of you can, by the way,

41:58

I just want to let all of you know that you could piggyback whenever you find a moment that you'd like to say something. You don't have to wait for me, you could just, as Kevin is doing.

42:06

Okay, yeah, let me just jump in. My daughter, too, even though she's mentally a three or four -year -old, she's also hypotonic.

42:14

She's also low muscle tone from head to toe. They say it's floppy.

42:21

And she drools. She has to wear bandanas around her neck all the time because the muscles in her mouth are so weak that she drools off and on.

42:33

But also with what Christina said with the spectrum of autism.

42:39

Now, my daughter, as I had mentioned, was labeled PDD. I have a nephew who's identically labeled and yet he's gone to college.

42:49

He's very smart, drives, can live on his own. He is diagnosed identically, but because of the spectrum, the diagnosis doesn't necessarily mean that you're going to be a three -year -old.

43:02

It could mean you're basically normal. And as we've mentioned in the program, you will know when you meet him, even though he's very smart, that he's got social skill problems with people.

43:14

And so you'd say, okay, there's something wrong there if you didn't know that he was autistic or PDD.

43:22

And also, what's very good is my sister has been very proactive with his life.

43:29

And he is also aware, as Christina mentioned with her daughter, about his handicap.

43:36

And he has been working on Long Island for one of the autistic foundations, and actually has been out front about talking about his disability to others.

43:49

So he is aware of it. He's living with it. But just to show you that all disabilities are not predetermined, that you're going to be very intellectually like a child, it just shows you that I would say in most every disability, there is that line where some are much more high -functioning than others.

44:18

But also, something else that we have all mentioned, and I'm directing this to the listeners, it is very important to get a handle on what is wrong with your child, to get them labeled, to go to a neurologist or whoever you need, doctors, to give them the label.

44:38

Because it will help your child. Plug them in, him or her, to whatever agency runs this in your state, depending upon where you're hearing this.

44:54

Because once that happens, then your child is on record with that state.

45:00

I know certain states might not be as good as others, but that's a place to start.

45:05

I frequently meet parents and friends of parents who tell me that I have a 13, 14 -year -old child, and the state doesn't even know about them, and I'm doing all this myself.

45:20

There is so much available. I, like Christina, and I know Pastor Doug, we've benefited so much, especially in New Jersey, which is,

45:30

I've got to say, an excellent state for the handicapped. My daughter had, when she was diagnosed, they did things even before she went to school.

45:42

And then the Child Study Team, which is the organization within your school district, that is supposed to be proactive, not always, but you can definitely make yourself aware to them.

45:52

They're the ones that help your child navigate through school. If your child, if there's no program within your school system, by law, they have got to get your child an appropriate education, and they must find school, even if it's out of your district.

46:13

And that's what happened with my child. She was placed in a school where she was getting the appropriate education, and for her, of course, the occupational therapies and speech pathology, and all of that was a part of her education until she was 21 years old.

46:32

I believe in most states that is required. A child, a handicapped child, does not graduate at 18.

46:39

They graduate at 21. I'm assuming it's the same on Long Island? Yes, yes.

46:46

Exactly the same. So take advantage of the system. It will definitely help your child.

46:52

I would definitely agree, and I think the earlier, I'm sure that the earlier they get special treatment, the better.

47:00

And again, like Kevin was saying, is that some parents are, they don't want their child labeled because they think the label hurts them.

47:09

They don't want the stigma of having a handicapped child or an autistic child, and they're doing the child more harm than good.

47:16

The label is extremely important, and the, if you can get them as much help as early as possible, it makes a difference.

47:25

But again, it's every child is different. The amount of progress they make, the rate at which they make that progress is completely different for each child, and regardless of the diagnosis, you know, autism spectrum, it's just that, it's a spectrum.

47:39

And you know, there's a wide spectrum, but the, getting them help early is so important, and not being ashamed of it, not being fearful of a label, and to get into demand, you have to kind of be an advocate.

47:55

You have to definitely be an advocate for your child. My wife, Denise, was an excellent advocate, and we try to all to advocate for Ruthie, because Ruthie couldn't advocate for herself, and that's key as well.

48:08

But the school districts are important. We find on Long Island, I don't know how it is in New Jersey, but on Long Island, every school district is different.

48:16

We, by God's grace, we're in two really good school districts. The Brentwood School District, when we lived in North Bay Shore, and now in Amityville School District, that's where we live, both were very positive and helpful for us.

48:30

Not every school district is like that, sadly, but you know,

48:36

God being merciful, we got a tremendous amount of help for Ruth, and so that was a great blessing.

48:44

But the diagnosis and the early treatment and everything is so important. We do have...

48:51

What I would say is, I don't look at this as punishment or anything.

48:58

I, as a believer as well, look at this as a blessing. My daughter, Brittany, is a wonderful human being.

49:03

She is an affectionate, sweet -natured person, and my older daughter, both of us look at this as, you know, she's a gift from God.

49:16

We're happy to be able to take care of her and what she has done to transform my life.

49:23

And also, how would I be able to understand that world unless God allowed me to be in it and live in it, and then, of course, be able to share what he's taught me with others?

49:38

And I just look at the whole thing as a blessing from God. Praise God. We do have a listener from Bangor, Maine.

49:47

John in Bangor, Maine says, I believe it was Kevin who earlier said that the diagnosis that was first given by a doctor was much more severe and frightening and disturbing than the truth eventually came to be.

50:03

Doesn't this lend you all to believe that one should always look for second and third opinions and not just relying upon the initial diagnosis of a physician?

50:15

I think that was what I had said. If the initial doctor didn't, he diagnosed her as just severely mentally retarded, and we were devastated, but we didn't stop there.

50:28

It is very important to get a variety of opinions, to see a variety of doctors.

50:34

It's not always easy. You'd like to just be able to go to one doctor, but we went to the Institute of Basic Research in Staten Island.

50:40

We would travel all the way from Long Island to Staten Island. That was a great help, and other doctors through the years have been very helpful, but you can't take just the initial diagnosis and maybe the wrong one, and you want the right diagnosis.

50:57

That's important, and I would just echo what my feelings, what

51:02

Kevin said about the blessing Ruth is to our lives, and every child is a gift of God.

51:08

We've all this, and special needs children are a gift of God, too, and the most important thing that we found,

51:17

Denise, my wife, and I, was that it was having the Lord that really made the difference in our lives in dealing with this, because we saw maybe hundreds of parents in our years in different schools, and many of them were totally devastated.

51:36

Their lives turned upside down. They didn't have the Lord. There were divorces. There were all kinds of problems in the family.

51:43

Of course, if you had just one handicapped child, and sometimes you'd have families with several handicapped children, but it was the

51:51

Lord that made the difference, and anybody that's listening to this show that doesn't have the

51:57

Lord, the Lord Jesus Christ is the one that you need, not only for trials and tribulations, but for your salvation, for everything.

52:07

He's our all -in -all, and as Steve and Kevin have said,

52:13

He's sovereign, and He loves us. He's too wise to be mistaken, and too good to be unkind, for sure.

52:21

Well, we have to go to our midway break. This is a longer -than -normal break, so I hope you're all patient.

52:27

Grace Life Radio, 90 .1 FM in Lake City, Florida, who airs our program twice a day in a rerun format and morning drive time, both in the morning and the evening, they require this elongated break in the middle because they air their own commercials and public service announcements.

52:43

So please take this time to your questions for Kevin Cottrell, Christina Miller, and Doug Totter on help for parents with children with autism from parents of autistic children, and also take this time to write down the information provided by our advertisers, because we depend on our advertisers to keep

53:07

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53:23

So please write down that information of our advertisers and patronize them as much as you can and as often as you can, and we look forward to hearing from you and your questions for our guests today on autism at six at,

53:34

I almost gave my phone number, at chrisarnsen at gmail .com. C -H -R -I -S -A -R -N -Z -E -N at gmail .com.

53:42

Don't go away, we'll be back after this station break with our guests and our discussion on autism. James White here, co -founder of Alpha Omega Ministries and occasional guest on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

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Spread the word about firstloveradio .org. Welcome back.

01:02:00

This is Chris Arnzen. If you just tuned us in, we have three guests today. Kevin Cottrell, host of Coffee with Kevin, The Morning Drive Show on the

01:02:09

WMCA 570 AM radio in the New York Tri -State area known as The Mission.

01:02:14

We also have Christina Miller, who is the mother of an autistic child, and Pastor Doug Totter of Grace Reformed Baptist Church of Merrick, Long Island, New York, who also is a parent of an autistic child.

01:02:29

We are discussing help for parents of autistic children from parents of autistic children.

01:02:35

If you have a question for our guests, our email address is chrisarnzen at gmail .com. C -H -R -I -S -A -R -N -Z -E -N at gmail .com.

01:02:43

Please give us your first name, city and state, and country of residence if you live outside the USA. Before I return to our discussion,

01:02:50

I just have a couple of very important announcements. Iron Trump and Zion Radio is delighted to announce that we have organized two very important events in Jacksonville, Florida, with my friends

01:03:04

Dr. James R. White of Alpha and Omega Ministries and Dr. Michael L. Brown of the

01:03:11

Line of Fire radio program and also of the Fire School for Ministry.

01:03:16

The first event is going to be held at the Gordon -Conwell Theological Seminary's Jacksonville, Florida, campus.

01:03:24

The theme of their speaking engagement is a house -mended Christian unity in a culture of outrage, a conversation with apologists

01:03:33

Dr. Michael Brown and Dr. James White. That's going to be held Friday, September 7th at 6 30 p .m.

01:03:41

at the Gordon -Conwell Theological Seminary's Jacksonville, Florida, campus. Then the next night, the

01:03:49

Switzerland Community Church of St. John's, Florida, which is a suburb of Jacksonville, it's also known as Switzerland, Florida, they are going to be hosting a debate that I have orchestrated between Dr.

01:04:05

James R. White and Dr. Michael L. Brown who are both actually on the same side this time.

01:04:10

They have debated a number of times each other when they were holding two opposite views, but this time they are on the same two -man team debating two professing

01:04:21

Christians who are ordained ministers who are also advocates of homosexuality. The debate theme is, is homosexuality consistent with New Testament obedience?

01:04:31

That's Saturday, September 8th, also at 6 30 p .m. And if you'd like more information about both of these events, both the

01:04:40

Gordon -Conwell Theological Seminary event and the debate at Switzerland Community Church in Switzerland, Florida, go to SwitzerlandCommunityChurch .org,

01:04:50

SwitzerlandCommunityChurch .org. Then coming up in November on the 9th and the 10th,

01:04:57

I will be at another event, Manning and Iron Sharpens Iron exhibit his booth, that is the

01:05:03

Quakertown Conference on Reform Theology being held at the Grace Bible Fellowship Church of Quakertown, Pennsylvania.

01:05:10

The theme this year is The Glory of the Cross, and the speakers include David Garner, Ray Ortlund, Richard Phillips, Timothy Gibson, and Carlton Wynn.

01:05:20

If you would like to register for this event, go to AllianceNet .org, AllianceNet .org,

01:05:26

and remember it's November 9th and the 10th at the Grace Bible Fellowship Church in Quakertown, Pennsylvania.

01:05:32

Then coming up in January, I'm so excited as I always am every year because I'm going to be, for the third year in a row,

01:05:40

Manning my exhibitor's booth at the G3 Conference in Atlanta, Georgia.

01:05:46

G3 stands for Gospel, Grace, and Glory. It's being held at the Georgia International Convention Center in College Park, Georgia, a suburb of Atlanta.

01:05:53

They are expecting between 4 ,000 and 5 ,000 people to attend. Tell your

01:05:59

Spanish and bilingual friends that they are also having an event exclusively in the

01:06:05

Spanish language on Wednesday, January 16th. But the English -speaking conference is from Thursday, January 17th through Saturday, January 19th.

01:06:14

And as always, the G3 Conference has a phenomenal, very long list of amazing speakers on this roster.

01:06:22

They have Dr. James R. White scheduled to speak, John Piper, Stephen Lawson, Votie Baucom, Mark Dever, my favorite preacher on the planet

01:06:31

Earth, Dr. Conrad M. Bayway, who Pastor Doug Totter knows very well because he has preached at Grace Reform Baptist Church of Long Island on a couple of occasions.

01:06:40

We have... That was your favorite, Chris. Sorry to hurt your feelings there,

01:06:46

Doug. Be careful, his Bible will hang up. We have

01:06:53

Tim Challies, Phil Johnson, the Executive Director of John MacArthurist Ministry. Grace to you. Josh Bice, the founder of the

01:07:02

G3 Conference, Todd Friel of Wretched TV and Wretched Radio, Stephen J. Nichols, who is the

01:07:07

President of Reformation Bible College, the college founded by the late R .C. Sproul and Ligonier Ministries, and many more are on that lineup.

01:07:15

If you want to register for the G3 Conference, go to g3conference .com, g3conference .com, and then please tell all of these organizations, if you register for their conferences, that you heard about them from Chris Arnzen on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

01:07:28

And by the way, I strongly urge you, if you are a leader in a parachurch ministry or a business owner, that you...

01:07:37

You're a leader in an organization that you want to introduce to thousands of people, I strongly urge you to register for your own exhibitor's booth, just as I will be manning,

01:07:48

God willing, at the G3 Conference from the 17th through the 19th, because they are expecting, as I said, between 4 ,000 and 5 ,000 people to be there.

01:07:57

So it's an excellent place to have an exhibitor's booth. And I know personally that having an exhibitor's booth at the

01:08:02

G3 Conference has benefited this program immensely as far as getting new sponsors for the show and as far as introducing the show to many new listeners.

01:08:13

And also, it was very encouraging to meet so many people who are already listening to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio. So that's g3conference .com.

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01:10:32

and put in the subject line, I need a church home or something similar. That's also the email address where you can send in a question to our guest today,

01:10:40

Kevin Cottrell, host of Coffee with Kevin on WMCA 570 AM radio in the

01:10:46

New York Tri -State area, also known as The Mission. We have Christina Miller, who is a blogger on the subject of autism, and we have

01:10:54

Pastor Doug Totter, who is one of two pastors at Grace Reform Baptist Church of Merrick, Long Island, New York, where I was once a member, much to the dismay of all of the members there.

01:11:07

And once again, if you send an email with your question, please put your first name, your city and state, and your country of residence if you live outside the

01:11:15

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01:11:23

We have a listener, Arnie in Perry County, Pennsylvania, who says,

01:11:30

I think that the information you are providing for our listeners is wonderful today, especially because it further cements and bolsters the pro -life position.

01:11:42

It is tragic how many doctors try to convince people to murder their children in abortion just because they may have some disability.

01:11:51

And you folks are giving our listeners every reason to go through with the pregnancy, obey

01:11:57

God, and raise these children where they are actually a blessing to your lives and not a curse.

01:12:02

Thank you very much for this information. And this was obviously a comment, not a question. And Kevin Cottrell, it is certainly true, isn't it?

01:12:13

In fact, also Doug Totter. I don't know if you know this. I'm not going to mention the person's name, because they might not want this kind of thing aired.

01:12:21

But there was a member of Grace Reform Baptist Church, actually as a member, they were members of Calvary Baptist Church before we merged many years ago back in the 90s.

01:12:31

They're not there anymore because they moved away. But this couple were urged by their doctor to have an abortion, because the doctor was convinced that the baby would be a severely retarded hermorphodite dwarf.

01:12:51

And they said, we will not do this. We are Christians.

01:12:57

We do not believe in murdering our children just because they have some kind of a disability. And the doctor apparently repeatedly urged them, and the baby was born completely normal and healthy.

01:13:10

Now, whether that was because of the errors of the doctor's diagnosis or a miracle occurred, who knows.

01:13:17

But Kevin Cottrell, isn't this just one of the many reasons why abortion is out of the question when it comes to something like this?

01:13:26

Absolutely. And I feel that because of my child,

01:13:32

I can speak to it even stronger. Because when I speak about preserving the life of any child and that abortion is sin and the murdering of a child before a holy

01:13:44

God, and I have a child who is severely handicapped, I think those that I might speak to can't come against me too strongly.

01:13:55

Because they see I have, in their minds, a child that, if they don't think the way I do, shouldn't have been given life.

01:14:04

And I think because of Brittany, my desire to save life is even stronger.

01:14:14

Because I see that even in her disability, she's just such a wonderful human being and such a blessing.

01:14:23

And it encourages me even more to take a stand for that. And Christina, do you have any further comments?

01:14:31

Yeah. I mean, absolutely. I think the world is a better place for these children being in it.

01:14:39

Absolutely. And I mean, unquestionably, abortion is, it's just,

01:14:46

I can't even, it's just such a horrible thing. But aside from that,

01:14:54

I can't imagine a world without these children. The world needs these children.

01:15:01

And I think that God knows that. They make you, my child makes me look outside of my own perspective constantly.

01:15:15

Constantly having to look at things a different way. And she just has such a unique way of seeing the world.

01:15:20

And such, she's just pure sweetness. And, you know, and then the other side of this, too, is that they aren't their diagnosis.

01:15:33

They have autism. That's something that they have. But they are so many other things as well.

01:15:41

They're loving, they're kind. They have talent. Some of them have genius that, you know, could perhaps benefit the world in such an amazing way.

01:15:54

So aside from just the obvious, how obviously wrong abortion is just overall, you know, the idea of trying to eliminate a group of people that have certain disabilities,

01:16:11

I think we're labbing ourselves as a society.

01:16:17

And Pastor Doug? Yes, I would definitely agree. And I can, I believe

01:16:23

I remember that situation in church. And that is, could be multiplied by, you know, millions of false diagnosis.

01:16:33

And like you said, Chris, you don't know if it was a bad diagnosis or just the sovereign mercy of God and performing a miracle.

01:16:41

But in either case, again, I would echo what Christina said and Kevin said, that these children are a great blessing.

01:16:49

And we need to view them like that. And the only way you can do that is as a believer.

01:16:55

And we have a different perspective on life that were made in the image of God. And every life has value.

01:17:03

In the world, life is determined, the value of your life is determined about what you have and what you can do.

01:17:09

And God's side is about being created in His image and particularly being related to Christ.

01:17:17

And our children are sinners. And they can be saved by God's grace, just like other sinners.

01:17:25

We need to bring them into the word of God and teach them the word of God and pray for them.

01:17:31

And oftentimes with children with severe disabilities, we don't know where they are spiritually, but we know

01:17:36

God knows. And we love them. We care for them. And the church and the world is blessed by them being in it.

01:17:48

And I wouldn't be the man that I am. I know today that it wasn't for Ruthie.

01:17:54

And I'm a better husband, a better father to my other children, and a better Christian and a better pastor.

01:18:01

All these things were designed by God. Everything is designed by God in our lives and in purpose to conform us to the image of Christ.

01:18:10

And when we have a child, a special child, that's a perfect gift from God.

01:18:17

And God knows what we need. I love the verse in 1 Peter that's one of my favorite verses in the

01:18:22

Bible. It says in there they're telling us the blessings of our salvation. Peter writes, and God tells us,

01:18:29

And this you greatly rejoice, so now for a little while, if need be, you will grieve by various trials, the genuineness of your faith being much more precious than gold, that perishes, though it is tested by fire, to be found for the praise, honor, and glory at the revelation of Jesus Christ.

01:18:46

And the trials come on a need -to -be basis, and God knows what we need. He knows that we need these children for the purpose

01:18:53

He gives them and for the good of the course of them. And just to encourage parents with handicapped children, just children with disabilities of any kind, to go near to the

01:19:06

Lord and really see it as a blessing rather than something that's a curse and be thankful for them.

01:19:15

And again, just totally against abortion for any reason.

01:19:22

Amen. Yeah, in fact, I am reminded about the woman who led me to Christ in the 1980s.

01:19:31

She had a friend who was a crack addict. She found out that this woman was addicted to crack and she was pregnant.

01:19:38

She didn't even know this woman who was pregnant and the crack addict didn't even know who the father was. And her doctor was convinced that her baby would also be addicted to crack and he was urging her to get an abortion.

01:19:52

My friend Susan sat down with her with a, it wasn't even a Christian book, it was a book on photographic images of the development of the baby in the womb from conception to birth.

01:20:09

And this woman was blown away by this. She didn't even realize how human these children are in the womb before they come out.

01:20:20

It's amazing the ignorance of people. And she decided against the abortion and her doctor once again was wrong and the baby was born completely normal and healthy and unaddicted to crack and so on.

01:20:34

So, just another example. Organizations like Soundview Pregnancy Service Centers in Long Island use the 3D sonogram to show the mothers that are considering abortions and it has a tremendous effect when they see that 3D sonogram of the baby in the womb.

01:20:55

They realize this is a true human being, a person, and it helps tremendously with having them change their mind.

01:21:04

That's great. Yeah, they say in many cases it's way up in the 80 percentage rate that when women see their child they will opt to give birth.

01:21:17

We work with, I forget the name of the organization, it's one of those types of crisis pregnancy centers that does that and they say that the percentages are tremendously high that when a woman comes in, even if they're not a believer, and they see their child, they opt to have the child.

01:21:36

So, yeah, it's a wonderful thing that's happening more and more to change the hearts and minds of those that are considering abortion.

01:21:45

Amen. By the way, were any of you counseled by doctors to get abortions? Thankfully, no.

01:21:52

No, we weren't. Actually, my daughter was born, had an uneventful birth, so at the time we thought she was normal, but until nine months that they saw something, you know, that could lead to a problem.

01:22:10

We have a question from... Go ahead, I'm sorry. No, I was just going to say that, no, we weren't, and we just, we didn't take any of the tests.

01:22:19

We were convinced that whatever God gave us for all our children we would accept from him and whether they were handicapped or not, so we were just, you know, didn't accept any of the testing that was available at that time, and testing has gotten only worse, but so we didn't have that pressure, as many parents do, of course.

01:22:38

Yes, Christina, isn't getting some tests dangerous to the health and life of the baby?

01:22:48

I've heard that the amniocentesis can be dangerous. I know when I was pregnant with Felicia, they did do some blood work.

01:23:01

I didn't want to do the amnio because I didn't want to put her in any danger, but I did let them do the blood work, not because we would ever have any intention of, you know, having an abortion, that would never cross our minds to do that, but because I'm a planner, so if they were able to tell me something safely, like through a blood test, then, you know, then

01:23:29

I would have no problem with that just so that I could be better prepared, but for Felicia, you know, nothing like that really showed up in a blood test either.

01:23:37

We didn't, she wasn't diagnosed with autism until she was four.

01:23:44

We had her in early intervention by her second birthday because she wasn't meeting milestones.

01:23:52

She had been meeting milestones up until about 18 months old, but then she she was slowing down, and that's been a theme with her, that the older she gets and the more her world expands, the more prominent her disability kind of seems to become, but, you know, yeah, some of the tests can put the baby at risk, and then others are safer, but I just, you know,

01:24:27

I don't think that there's ever a reason to consider an abortion regardless of what the test might say, but if it could be used to help you prepare or to help treat the child in some way, then that might be a different story.

01:24:45

Okay, we have a question from Johnny in Queens, New York, and what I'm going to do is I'm going to read

01:24:50

Johnny's question, and then you can answer it after we return from our final break. Time is flying by very rapidly, but Johnny in Queens, New York says, thanks for your wonderful guests

01:25:03

Kevin, Christina, and Pastor Doug for their personal insights from their daily commitment to their children.

01:25:08

Many parents with disabled children choose to work with their child at home and avoid governmental, local, or otherwise involvement due to fear that their religious, medical, ethical views and freedoms may be infringed upon.

01:25:25

Has any of your guests experienced any requirements imposed by these programs that made them compromise their ideals, for instance, drugs, vaccinations, using materials against biblical beliefs, etc.?

01:25:39

And we'll have you all answer Johnny's question when we return from our final break. If anybody else would like to join us on the air,

01:25:46

I strongly urge you to send in your email now or forever hold your peace because we're rapidly running out of time.

01:25:52

Our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com, chrisarnson at gmail .com, and please give us at least your first name, your city and state, and your country of residence if you live outside the

01:26:02

USA, and only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal private matter. Don't go away, we'll be right back after this final station break.

01:26:10

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.nyc. Have a great day. Chris Sorensen, host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio here.

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01:37:25

We are now back with our guest today, Kevin Cottrell, host of Coffee with Kevin on WMCA 570

01:37:34

AM radio, known as The Mission. Christina Miller, who is a Christian blogger on the subject of autism, and we also have

01:37:42

Pastor Doug Totter, one of two pastors, along with Mark Romaldi at Grace Reformed Baptist Church of Long Island in Merrick, New York.

01:37:51

If you have a question, our email address is ChrisArnzen at gmail .com. ChrisArnzen at gmail .com.

01:37:58

Give us your first name, city and state and country of residence if you live outside of the USA, and please only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter.

01:38:08

And by the way, before I go back to our question that was asked earlier, I want to thank my dear friend

01:38:14

Bill Shishko, host of the program A Visit to the Pastor's Study, for being the one that actually urged me to do a program today on autism since he had already interviewed

01:38:24

Christina Miller himself. And if you want to find the MP3 or the audio link for Christina's interview with Pastor Bill Shishko, go to visitthepastorsstudy .org.

01:38:39

Visitthepastorsstudy .org, and it is archived there so you can hear that program. We are going back now to our question that was asked during the, before the break

01:38:52

I should say, by Johnny in Queens, New York.

01:38:59

And I misplaced the question, so I've got to enlarge the email he sent because the font was microscopic.

01:39:08

And while I'm doing that, let me repeat our email address if you'd like to join us on the air. It's ChrisArnzen at gmail .com.

01:39:13

Okay, we have Johnny in Queens, New York, who said, as you may recall, many parents with disabled children choose to work with their child at home and avoid governmental, local or otherwise, involvement due to fear that their religious, medical, ethical views and freedoms may be infringed upon.

01:39:34

Has any of your guests experienced any requirements imposed by these programs that made them compromise their ideals involving drugs, vaccinations, using materials against biblical beliefs, etc.?

01:39:48

Why don't we start with Kevin Cattrell? Um, no, actually, I haven't.

01:39:55

I found that whenever I would speak about my faith, if anything, they, you know, there was no threat through the many years my daughter went to school.

01:40:07

Even in the group home now, they take, my daughter lives with three other women, and they do go to church.

01:40:15

They take them, you know, to church periodically if they want to go. I brought my daughter to my church a number of times, although she does have difficulty sitting and staying attentive.

01:40:27

She enjoys the music. But when the pastor preaches, she's like, you know, because she's a little kid in her head.

01:40:33

It doesn't always stay there seated. So many times I'll have to walk out and walk her around. But no,

01:40:39

I never experienced in all the years my daughter was in school, actually, a blessing.

01:40:46

My daughter goes to a day program that's run by Catholic Charities.

01:40:52

So obviously, they are very supportive, you know, of those, you know, of Christian values.

01:41:00

So I've never experienced that with my daughter. And Christina? Um, absolutely not.

01:41:09

The opposite has been true. Everyone has been completely respectful, and we've had a number of therapists in our homes for hours at a time on a weekly basis.

01:41:22

And, you know, they, it's legally and ethically, it's part of their code that they have to be respectful of the belief system of the family that they're working with.

01:41:34

And so I have never encountered anything but respect.

01:41:40

And we've even had my daughter's behavioral therapist attend church, because there were, you know, issues in her behavior plan that could only be addressed at church.

01:41:52

So the behavioral therapist came to church. So, you know,

01:41:57

I think, you know, I've only had positive experiences. My daughter is in the public school.

01:42:04

They've done nothing but be supportive and respectful to us. The other thing

01:42:10

I would want to say, and, you know, I absolutely respect every parent has to make the decision that they feel is right for their children.

01:42:20

But just as someone who has been in the thick of it, and I was a teacher, my husband is a teacher, we are perhaps more equipped than most to deal with a child with autism.

01:42:33

And yet, I still, when that diagnosis came, I felt like I got punched in the gut, and I was completely overwhelmed by the whole process and lost, in spite of having formal training.

01:42:49

So, you know, I just think it's important to, Proverbs says, there's wisdom in a multitude of counselors, and these professionals are experts in their field.

01:43:01

And to not take advantage of their knowledge and their wisdom, even if they aren't coming from a

01:43:15

Biblical perspective, that doesn't necessarily mean that their methods are contrary to a

01:43:22

Biblical perspective. In fact, over the years, as I've worked closely with these

01:43:28

Sabbaths, as they would speak to me, different verses would pop up in my mind.

01:43:36

I wish I could think of a specific example, but it would happen all the time, like where they would say, try this, that, or the other thing, and I would be like, oh, that's like the verse that says such and such.

01:43:48

You know, and they weren't necessarily coming from a perspective of science, but God made our brains,

01:43:55

God made our bodies, so science is going to reveal that and be consistent with that.

01:44:04

You know, maybe not always initially in the theory stage, but I find that the very research -based methods tend to not go against Biblical methods.

01:44:17

That's been my experience. Any follow -up, Pastor Doug? Yes, I would totally agree with Kevin and Christina.

01:44:25

We've not experienced much at all as far as negative.

01:44:32

You can opt out of things. We found, you know, we didn't choose to vaccinate our kids, and particularly

01:44:39

Ruthie, after their diagnosis, especially, and we were able to get out of that, opt out of that, and also any other, you know, things that we didn't agree with.

01:44:52

Everybody we found was very respectful. It also gives you an opportunity to witness to a whole bunch of people that you would never come in contact with otherwise.

01:45:01

Like Christina was saying, the therapists, and we've had them home as well, and it's just a wonderful opportunity to be a witness for Christ, and I think that, you know, every parent has to do what they have to do, but trying to homeschool, as Christina said, you feel like you're way out of your league, and not to take advantage of these things, and God's common grace is given skills, and different teachers, and therapists, and all that, and most of all that stuff.

01:45:34

You know, I guess some parents could do it at home, but we just never felt that we could, and God has just really blessed us in using the system, using the school system.

01:45:45

She was in Developmental Disability Institute up until she was 12 years old, and she was still there all the way until 21, and now she's in the

01:45:56

Head Injury Association program. It's an adult -based program, but one time in this adult program, they had brought in a healing therapist, and we found out about it, and we told them that that went against our beliefs, our

01:46:12

Christian beliefs, and we didn't want a daughter involved, and they were respectful, and they took her out of that one of the day in the program, and subsequently they don't do that anymore.

01:46:24

They told us that other parents had objected as well, so you can do a lot more than you think,

01:46:29

I think, as a Christian, and that's our experience.

01:46:37

Well, thank you, Johnny in Queens, New York. Keep listening to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, and keep spreading the word about the program in New York City and beyond.

01:46:46

Let's see here, we have Chuck in West Islip, New York, and Chuck says,

01:46:56

I was wondering if each of your guests could, in a summary fashion, go through the various stages of emotions they went through when they first had their child diagnosed, through the fear, the anxiety, the apprehension, until the current day of actually rejoicing in the child the way

01:47:16

God had made them. And we'll start with Kevin Cottrell, if you don't mind. I never went through any kind of depression.

01:47:31

My wife did. She went really off the cliff with it, sadly.

01:47:39

It was sadly part of the dissolving of my marriage, and to this day

01:47:47

I question where she was at with the Lord, but for me personally, I really accepted it, because as much as it was,

01:47:59

I guess the sad part was my older daughter and her, we had a desire to have two children, and that, you know, you think of two sisters, and the fun that they have, and growing up together, and all the typical things with two, you know, normal children, and that Brittany would always be my older daughter's baby sister.

01:48:24

Thankfully, my older daughter, I think because of her Christian faith, accepted it, too, and the both of us accepted

01:48:34

Brittany basically as what God gave us. And the other thing, too, is the

01:48:41

Lord blessed me with a wonderful human being. My daughter is a very affectionate, loving person, even though she has, you know, her minimal communication as a quote -unquote toddler in an older person's body, she's very affectionate and communicates that to you.

01:49:04

She's close with her family. Every time I go to see her, the couple of times a week I go to her group home, she's hugging and holding

01:49:13

Daddy, and we sit on the couch, or we take a walk around the neighborhood, and she knows it's

01:49:19

Daddy, and she's very affectionate. So I thank the Lord that He has given me a person that, and we have our, there's little things that we do, the communication we have is not really as much in words and language as it is in things

01:49:36

I've sung to her, and little songs I've had since she was very little, and I've sung those things to her that she still remembers, so I know that mentally she has never really gone backwards.

01:49:49

She progressed to a certain level, and then, you know, she's kind of remained basically the way she is since she was much younger.

01:49:57

She accomplishes little things here and there, and will do things that surprise me that she's kind of learned how to do, or words that she will say, but I guess because of my faith in Christ, I took it as this was something

01:50:14

God gave me, and I will do it to the best of my ability, and I believe that He gave it to me because He knew

01:50:22

I could do it with His strength, and that, I would say, is the way I've looked at my life, because I know that God gives us trials, and I believe that He knew that I could do this, and that it would give me the ability to share this with others, to hopefully bless them and give them the courage in the

01:50:47

Lord to be able to take care of their child, so I guess that's really been my perspective from the very beginning, because I don't remember ever going into severe depression and, you know, wondering, why

01:51:02

God did you give this to me? That was never my perspective, and I've been a believer a very long time, 40 -plus years, so God prepared me, and I'm thankful that I was able to walk it the way

01:51:20

I did in His strength, and He blessed me with a wonderful child, and you know, that's the way

01:51:28

I've looked at it, and I continue to look at it, and as Pastor Doug said, you know, it had its difficult moments on many levels, but all in all,

01:51:41

I would say that I'm thankful that God gave me the strength to do it, and that for those that can hear me and be encouraged, to me that, you know, that's a blessing of what

01:51:56

God is able to do through me for others. Yes, and I'm sure that you would agree that although God spared you from depression, you wouldn't find fault with a brother or sister in Christ who did plunge into depression, because people are different, we face trials differently, we face death differently, but perhaps you could move on,

01:52:17

Christina, with your own summary of what you went through. So, it's interesting, because my husband responded very similar to Kevin.

01:52:28

He, you know, he just took it very matter -of -fact. For me, it was different.

01:52:36

Our experience was very different, because we were in the early intervention system for two years before my daughter was actually diagnosed, and because she is high -functioning, it was such a gray area until she got older, and by the time she got older,

01:52:56

I went into the neurologist hoping for a diagnosis, because we knew that she needed certain interventions that she couldn't be entitled to without the diagnosis.

01:53:10

So, I went into the appointment thinking, like, I was more nervous that she wasn't going to be bad enough to get a diagnosis, but then it surprised me when

01:53:24

I did actually hear the diagnosis, autism spectrum disorder, I felt like I got punched in the gut, and I was surprised by that reaction, because I had been so, like, logical about the way

01:53:38

I was approaching the whole thing, but, you know, as a mom, I think you,

01:53:44

I never felt like, oh, I wish she was different than how she was, or I wish she didn't have this.

01:53:51

I was more concerned with, am I up for the test? Am I going to be the mom she needs me to be?

01:54:01

And it was more about that anxiety of who I am as her mom versus who she is as my child, that was sort of where the emotions were coming from me, and I think growing up in the church, you know the gospel, but the gospel really came alive to me as we went through the process, and as my daughter's needs grew bigger than I was able to provide, to really learn that, like, we can't be perfect.

01:54:36

It's not just that we're sinners. Like, we're incapable of being perfect in spite of our best efforts, and that that's the whole point.

01:54:47

The whole point of everything we believe is that we can't reach the standard that we have to reach.

01:54:54

We can't attain it, and Jesus did it for us, and I think that's where my comfort became, and I learned to, you know, to read all

01:55:04

I can and be the best mom I can, but to rest in that Jesus was going to fill in all of the gaps that I had as a mom, and those moments where I was just exhausted and maybe lost it when

01:55:19

I shouldn't have, or lost my patience, or you know, whatever, that Jesus is perfect for me, that that became very real to me through the process of raising my daughter.

01:55:36

And Doug Totter, we only have a minute for Doug, if you could wrap up what you'd like to say.

01:55:44

Yes, just, well, I was encouraged by what Christina said and Kevin, and you do have an initial punched -in -the -gut feeling, initially, as we did, but it's relying on the grace of God, and the goodness of God, and the sovereignty of God.

01:56:01

I can't say or tell you how much believing, and it was because I was in two good churches,

01:56:07

Calvary Baptist in Amityville, and Grace Reformed Baptist of Merrick, where the passage is preached, the message is always true to God's word, and the sovereignty of God, and the goodness of God, and that's what's gotten us through, and we had many frustrating times with the fighting to get all the services that child needs, and difficulties with health issues.

01:56:33

A lot of times, Ruthie had many health issues, and we would, you know, seek all the doctors we could, and she still lives today.

01:56:41

She has many health issues, but, you know, in many ways, she's gotten better, and through different stages, and everything.

01:56:48

It's like a lot of things in life. Our lives are full of trials, but it's the word, as Christina said, the word

01:56:55

Jesus Christ that makes the difference. We can do all things through Christ that strengthens us, and be content, and the good and the bad, and again, it's a simple phrase.

01:57:07

God is great, and God is good. He is certainly great, and sovereign, and he is certainly merciful, and loving, and these children see his great sovereignty, and as well as his love and goodness.

01:57:21

I would not trade Ruthie for any child in the world. I love her so much, and she's been such a blessing in her own way, and to not only us, but to our children, and our siblings, and people in the church who have been always fantastic, and been a blessing to us.

01:57:41

She's a blessing in a lot of lives, so we're just thankful for God and what he's done, and we'd encourage every parent to have faith in God, and to trust

01:57:56

God, and have a personal relationship with God through the word Jesus Christ. That's the most important thing, that everyone, everybody needs to be reconciled to God in the only way, through the blood of Christ, through the word

01:58:09

Jesus Christ, and then to trust him, that you do know Christ, and trust him, and trust him in the good and the bad.

01:58:18

That's where he's faithful and good. Well, we have the website for Grace Reformed Baptist Church of Long Island in Merrick, New York, where Pastor Doug Totter is one of two pastors.

01:58:28

That's gracereformedbaptistchurch .com, gracereformedbaptistchurch .com.

01:58:35

The blog site that Christina Miller operates is nurturingmindfully .com,

01:58:43

nurturingmindfully .com, and the website for the radio station where Kevin Cottrell is the morning host on Coffee with Kevin.

01:58:52

He's also the program director. That website is am570themission .com,

01:58:59

am570themission .com. Kevin Cottrell, and Christina Miller, and Pastor Doug Totter, it has been a joy having all three of you on the program.

01:59:09

I look forward to having you return as guests in the future, and I want to thank everybody who listened, especially those who wrote in questions.

01:59:16

I want you all to always remember for the rest of your lives that Jesus Christ is a far greater Savior than you are a sinner.