Tape 3 - Eastern Mysticism & Cults

Reincarnation and Edgar Cayce in Eastern Mysticism

I appreciate at least your faithfulness in coming and what I've tried to do and the only thing that I've tried to do in these brief times we've had together is to just be informative, is to give you enough information that it'll be a safeguard and a hedge about your life and also give you enough information that were you to confront someone who's involved in one of these groups that at least you'd have a little information maybe that a question might come to your mind that you could present to them that God might use that question to stimulate them to a study or to a re-evaluation of what they're doing or what they're involved in.

And so that's what we've tried to do and I appreciate your faithfulness and your coming the notes that you've taken and perhaps you may never have a reason to use any of it but if you travel around or move around at all in this city or any other city of any size you're going to confront someone who has difficulties in these areas and you will confront someone that will be able to utilize what you have in your mind and what you have written on paper.

So this morning we want to talk about reincarnation and basically this belief has enjoyed an increased acceptance throughout the world especially in the United States of America and many people who call themselves Christians either secretly or openly now are dealing with the fact that they believe in reincarnation and this simply means that either lived at another time in another world in another plane as another person or as another animal or another thing in some form of pre-existence and then after this life this is not all there is you will live in another plane of existence and then other planes of existence and they're really never ending but maybe somewhere out there in the future after all these planes are gone through maybe you might merge into something and so there are many movie stars and celebrities of all walks of life that are getting on the talk shows and the television programs and openly stating their acceptance of reincarnation.

The movie industry is beginning to just flood the market with major works and millions of dollars put into movies advocating some form of some ramification or some aspect of reincarnation. Now the person who is most noted most famous if you want to use that word or most renowned for making this belief possible within the United States is the man called Edgar Cayce a phenomenon within himself.

We know as Christians because something works and because it accomplishes good does not make it of God not at all because Satan can do good and Satan will do good and so we know that isn't so. Now he has been called the sleeping prophet the sleeping prophet his works are being revised and reprinted and they're brought in a sort of a revival by revised revived is what I meant to say they are some of course being revised but basically a revival of his material and the reason he's called a sleeping prophet is because he received most of his information during a trance-like state.

He would go into a trance-like state and then he would have what he called readings just like reading r-e-a d-i-n-g-s readings. He had these readings that he would get and they were stenographically recorded they were written down someone wrote them down what he said and they have been recorded and they're put out in books and papers and so forth.

Now a brief history of this man is interesting. Edgar Cayce was born March the 18th 1877 March 18 1877 in Hopkinsville Kentucky in Hopkinsville Kentucky. Now during his childhood he began to report to his parents and the people that he began to have visions.

He began to see visions and he began to talk to people who were in these visions. He began to communicate with them as a child. Now he became ill on an occasion and was stricken with a paralysis of the throat and he found it quite difficult to speak.

There was no medical help available at that time for him. There were just wasn't any available. He had a friend to come and to help him re-enter one of these trance-like states to re-enter one of these trance-like states or asleep that he had first experienced as a child.

Now he's a young man at this particular time while in this trance his voice used the pronoun we that immediately clues you to who was talking the Holy Spirit never speaks audibly and he's the only spirit that you're supposed to have inhabiting your being is the Holy Spirit of God.

Paul says if anybody receives another spirit other than which you've received let him be anathema because they will be demonic spirits and it is possible for a person to be invaded by an alien personality and so they began to use these this we and it correctly diagnosed the difficulty it diagnosed the problem and suggested a cure a treatment which brought perfect cure that has been recorded that has been recorded.

You say oh well it became known that Edgar Cayce could while in a trance correctly diagnose and suggest treatments for other people for 43 years. For 43 years with a sixth grade education this man astounded and confused the medical experts of the world medical phenomenon the medical experts of the world of his day with near perfect I said near not perfect with near perfect diagnosis of difficulties and problems and he gave the proper medical terminology and gave the proper cure.

And it worked for 43 years he did it. It has been recorded. Doctors have agreed. They just don't understand it. They just don't understand it. Now these readings were telepathic. They were telepathic.

He used telepathy in the sense that the patient did not have to be with him. The patient could be somewhere else. They didn't have to be physically in his presence for him to diagnose them in a trance to diagnose them and to offer the treatment which would bring a cure almost every time very few times that it didn't but enough to cause some alarm.

Now Edgar Cayce considered himself a devout Christian. He was a very popular Sunday school teacher for years and years and years. He spent some 20 years doing the quote good works in quote of medical diagnosis before he first began to give the readings about theology and philosophy.

Some 20 years he just dealt with medicine. 43 years he dealt with medicine. But 20 years he dealt with only medicine alone. And the latter part the 23 years following he dealt with medicine. But he also began to include theology and philosophy.

Can you not see how satan works. Get you doing something good before he gets you off into attacking the bible or attacking what Christianity is really all about. And that's the way he always does. He always does all right.

Where would this lead to a person. Okay we can see it in his life. He became convinced that since he was doing good for other people then his gift or his power had to be from god. He just became convinced because everybody thinks all good comes from god.

And that's utter foolishness. But that's what most people think. That's what he thought. And there is no indication in any of his writings that he ever asked god to remove that power from him if it wasn't from him.

He knew very little of satan. There's no indication of satan in his writings. Very much and he never asked god. There's at least no indication of it in the people that follows him or follow him and written about him.

Or in his writings itself uh that he ever said anything to the effect that god if this isn't a view it's if it's satanic then get it out of my life. I devote myself back to you. But you see satan always leads down a pattern.

And he followed that pattern casey on the basis of the feeling that his readings were accurate and all of their pronouncements made a fateful decision one day to submit to the authority of whatever or whomever spoke through him during the trances he yielded himself to their authority according to his own writings.

And from that moment on he went downward. He was already down going down. He just didn't know it. But it took drastic steps down all right the readings and talk about human reincarnation. The readings began to indicate to him that the bible is not to be accepted as authoritative because it does not contain the full ideas of jesus.

It didn't have in full the ideas of jesus. And the readings indicated that jesus christ had taught reincarnation. These things that spoke through him when he was in a trance told him that jesus did teach reincarnation but it wasn't recorded in the bible because the bible does not contain all the things.

Well the bible does tell us that all the things that jesus did why the whole world couldn't hold books about the things that he actually did and said they're so profound. And so it leaps upon this and it communicated it to him.

Now a second reason according to casey and these readings that came for not regarding the bible as authoritative is the suppression of the thought and the writings of early church fathers compatible with the theory of reincarnation said because the early christians who believed in the bible they didn't believe in reincarnation either.

So evidently they can't be trusted either. And if they believe in the bible then you can't believe the bible because they believe in the bible and they didn't believe in reincarnation. So it's that circular argument that we talk about.

That's a very weak argument. Now these readings that he had said that the sixth century six century byzantine emperor justinian and his wife theodora used a church council. Now this is what these things told him that the emperor justinian the byzantine emperor in the sixth century and his wife theodora used a church council to condemn and suppress the writings of the early christian writer origin who there was a man an early church father back in the early days of christianity named origin he lived over in cesarea all right now casey stated in his trance that justinian and his wife were pagans in christian clothing and that the bible at this point in history was perverted by them as they began to suppress origin who tried to write about reincarnation and they wouldn't let it.

So the bible became perverted having questioned and discarded the authority of the holy scripture he then regarded as truth subsequent materials that were produced by the readings he began to believe that anything that he spoke was truth.

That's gnosticism added revelation new information as opposed to the bible. Now the basics of the system can be summarized here it is. I give you what he says. I'm gonna quote to you what he believed.

Basically in the beginning of time there was a whole it was a whole sea of spirit and it filled all space. All the space everywhere was filled with one big spirit. It was filled to capacity it was static content aware of itself a giant resting on the bosom of its own thought and contemplating that which was.

And then this great spirit moved it filled everything it withdrew into itself until all the rest of the space was empty. And that which had filled it was now shining from its center a restless seething mind.

This was the individuality of that spirit. This was what itself to be when it awakened. This was god. God desired to express himself. Then he desired companionship. Therefore he projected from himself the cosmos the world and souls and souls all right.

Now when you take that we find that these entities or souls which are nothing but portions of god himself kicked off out into space they came into being now one of these souls eventually became reincarnated as jesus.

A number of souls became curious about this and they wished to become male and female as they saw the divisions expressed in animal life male animals and females. And so they figure well we want to be male female too because the animals aren't all right.

They entered and occupied the bodies of animals and thereafter could not escape. They got in the animals and they couldn't get out. They were there forever. Now we would consider them he says as forms which were half man half beast.

Now that's a perfect picture what the bible says that a demon does. It begins to become something not half man half beast but grotesque. That's why the greek mythology presents the greek gods as what some of them are part animal part human.

That's what happened in egypt. That's what the egyptian gods were at the time of moses. When god struck those plagues he dealt with each one of the gods of egypt and they were part human part man all right.

Now god he says then chose to create a perfect fleshly body man to rescue these trapped souls in the animals. This was accomplished by the souls working with the glands of the ape until the body was so perfected that the souls could enter.

These souls and trapped in animals were called in the bible the sons of men with the rescuer souls they were called the sons of god. Now according to the readings experienced by edgar casey man appeared simultaneously at five different places on the earth.

At the genesis or the beginning of the five distinct ethnic groups they began to appear. Not adam and eve but mine appeared in five different places on the earth and it became the father or the beginning of the five different ethnic groups.

The genesis account he says in the bible is a symbolized account of what actually took place. Now there were two major land masses. According to him there is a movie coming on television about what the man from atlantis you think that's fantasy.

Well it may not be true but you see this has been going on for a long time. Edgar casey says that both of these two major land masses have disappeared. One of them is atlantis. Now he said this back you know years ago one is atlantis which is covered by the atlantic ocean and that's the home of the original red race.

Well isn't that what some of the scientists try and tell us. Where do you think they're getting that information from that. The indians walked across all this land mass and got here started when they walked and that's all disappeared.

So guess what. What did we talk about when we talk about eastern mysticism karma. Huh. What's the law of karma. Good and bad. You do good then you get good. You do bad you get bad. Well that's partially true.

Now old edgar casey believing partially in eastern mysticism which is totally satanic. He says that in the course of existence all these souls are subject to the law of karma. Exactly what eastern mysticism tells us.

Hinduism buddhism and all the rest of them transcendental meditation. Harry krishna. All of them deal with karma. Okay now he says each soul reaps exactly what it sows. Well that we play a little truth there.

If a soul in one lifetime rebels against god or sins it builds up a karmic debt. K-a-r-m-i-c a karmic debt. He owes a debt to the law of karma. And uh it is a debt and it must be paid by working out through good works in future lives.

Now jesus is seen as the soul which first accomplished this process of perfection through a series of lives. The readings these things that spoke through him stated that jesus and christ are not the same.

Well jehovah's witnesses believe that the mormons believe that we talked about the cults. And i was with you last time. Don't you remember what i said. Well you better check it out because that's what they believe all.

Right. Here's what they say. Edgar casey. Christ is not a man. Jesus was a man. Christ was the messenger christ in all ages jesus is only one. Now that's weighty matter. You just think about it. Christ is not a man.

Jesus was the man. Christ was the messenger christ in all ages. Jesus is only one that comes out of edgar casey on reincarnation. New york castle books 1967 page 157. Now jesus was simply the first perfected entity rather than the perfect man.

Rather than the perfect man. Now this is amazing. When you get into it most people don't study edgar casey. They just take out of what they like. It sounds good on the surface. And that's the way most christians are in.

Don't we just kind of play with the surface things of the bible. We don't study the bible. You can't get most christians out of matthew martin luke and john. They don't ever go around these other things.

Most christians don't know anything about the book of hebrews. You want to study anything like that. Well listen to what he says. Edgar casey taught and believed that the soul we know as jesus had been reincarnated as some 30 different human beings and he names them.

I'll give them to you. He first of all he says 30 different human beings that jesus came through. First of all he was an early son worshiper. Now where would he get that from. Well the son god of egypt was who.

Rah. Yeah. That's when i'm god zapped through moses down there. That's one of them. Oh rah. Where'd he get his from. Over in east. All right. He got another one. He said that jesus was the author of the book of the dead.

There's a very in the black arts there is a very noted book called the book of the dead and he says jesus was the author of the book of the dead. Also jesus was hermes. Jesus was the man called hermes h-e-r-m-e-s if you're writing it down hermes who supposedly is the architect of the great pyramids.

He's the guy that's supposed to be the architect the one that designed all those things. And that's who jesus was. Jesus also was zeaned z-e-n-d who was the father of zoroaster which brought about zoroasterism which is anti-christian anti-bible anti-god anti-christ.

But it's a very popular philosophical thought and it permeates philosophical thinking now. Isn't it strange that they try to attribute to jesus all that's in the world today. That's wrong. All right. Now notice something else.

He's also amelius. Jesus came through that he was amelius who was an atlantean. He lived in atlantis. Jesus was him also. And then he disposed a general one down here. And he was also other figures in history.

Anyone you ever have morning to be. You don't mean napoleon. Okay napoleon who cares. He doesn't name those. But he's got some more in the bible now. He was also adam who believes that mormons adam god our father god who was the same one in the garden of eden.

It says. And adam god brigham young says that adam god had an affair with mary and jesus was born. And he says our father adam is a what he is an exalted resurrected man. That's mormonism. That's in mormon theology.

Of course most mormons don't know that either. All right. He was adam. He was also joseph of the old testament. He was joshua. He was joshua. There's another joshua. He was enoch. And here's a good one boy.

I know more preachers that believe this. He was melchizedek. You need to get my tape on melchizedek. I just released the tape on melchizedek. And uh you might want to order that. He was melchizedek. He was not melchizedek.

Melchizedek was a gentile. Melchizedek mentioned how many times in the bible bible students. Three. Well that's close. You could have said a dozen. He's mentioned three times in the three different groups of the bible.

He's mentioned in uh in genesis. He's mentioned in psalms. And he's mentioned in the new testament. He's in the three different classifications. And uh you need to get my tape on him. All right. All right.

And then finally after all of this then he became jesus of nazareth. Jesus of nazareth. Okay. But including in these 13 things that i've mentioned to you in number six was other figures in ancient history he comes out with 30 30 different ones.

Now edgar casey never mentions that jesus was ever reincarnated as a woman. That's strange. Because in reincarnation you might come back as a woman. Some are already making it. You know uh some are not waiting around for it.

Some of these people that play this kind of stuff you know they're they're not waiting around for it. They go ahead and get in the jump on it so that maybe they they might come back. But he never mentioned that in 29 reincarnations jesus was a sinner.

He was a sinner s-i-n-n-e-r who saved himself through good works and became a good example for us. Now on the teaching of salvation he says this jesus did not save anyone else and did not atone for the sins of the others.

The edgar casey reincarnation concept of salvation involves in simply reducing one's karmic debt to zero. Each person pays his own debt. Brigham young said exactly the same thing in mormonism that the blood of jesus christ cannot ultimately save anybody.

There are some sins that your own blood has to be shed to atone for plainly teaching in his teachings on blood atonement all right. Now what about grace. In talking about grace grace is defined by the reincarnationist as the opportunity to forgive others as we would be forgiven.

And thereby doing that you reduce your debt. The law of grace is simply the freedom to atone for our own sins. That is in langley's book edgar casey on reincarnation page 243. Isn't that strange. See how they mingle half truths.

You see how some things thoughts of the bible are mingled into this junk. And that's the way it always did all right about punishment hell retribution. The casey system of doctrine excludes any idea of eternal punishment for sin.

Well again i don't want to keep knocking it. But what about mormonism. You see mormonism is in theology is very close to reincarnation because as as god is man once was and man may become as man is god once was.

And they teach that you can become a god you can become a god. And they even say that if you could look out or some press said if you could just look out and see things out there you would just see millions of gods out there if you could see it.

And so it's very close to this kind of a thought. And they deal with this thing. Uh you know about uh retribution and stuff they don't have anything. Well if you really just think well we just go on and on talk about it.

Uh we'll stay with this. Any idea of eternal punishment for sin. It's all eradicated. Yeah. Well it is so like when lucifer the spirit brother of jesus stepped forward at the great council of the gods according to mormon theology.

And he said i'll be the savior and nobody will be lost. That's what he said. That's in mormon theology at the great council the great god chief god elohim he said well what we're going to do about redeeming people.

And lucifer stepped forward said i'll go and nobody will be lost. And he said no you're not going to go. And so he got mad and rebelled and they kicked him out of heaven. And then jesus said well i'll go.

Jesus was second choice according to according to mormon theology. Most mormons don't know that. But it's in their writings you can check it out all right now. The only god that the sleeping prophet edgar casey believed in was a god of infinite love and mercy who has already forgiven us all.

And that thought permeates every church in this country. All you've heard of for the last 15 to 20 years 25 years is god is a god of love and mercy love and mercy. And now people have no fear of god. They have no fear of hell.

Most preachers don't believe in it. Most preachers don't preach it or teach it. And so people are paralyzed in the sense of god just a god of love. He has to. And that's why people don't want to get saved.

Why. Why get saved. If god's going to forgive you anyway just might as well eat drink and be married. Because there's no such thing as hell. You believe in heaven. Yeah believe in hell. No. Well boy that makes for good living.

That makes for good living. And there are millions of people who believe that concept. God is a god of love and mercy and grace and forgiveness. But he's also a god of holiness righteousness and justice.

And the bible does teach just out and we'll see that in a moment. Another casey follower makes this statement. We are all a part of god and god is a part of us. There is no conflict there is no punishment.

Merely opportunities to develop. That's by jesse sterano. And it's booked the sleeping prophet put up garden city new york double day 1967 page 243. And it's one of the authoritative books on edgar casey.

In the universalism concept of edgar casey there's no place for hell. And in reality there's none for heaven either. You just go through all these planes of living future lives all right. What does he believe about the bible devoted christian.

He says. According to edgar casey his readings these things that he got through trance the bible is neither accurate nor authoritative. Jesus of nazareth was only one of 30 reincarnations as we said of that particular soul.

And he only became the christian in this specific lifetime. Now jesus christ was not god incarnate but simply an entity as soul as you and i. So immediately it denies the deity of christ and the trinity.

All of us sin. And all of us will eventually achieve perfection by repaying our karmic debt. This will require many lifetimes in which we will work our way back toward an eventual reunion with god. There is no eternal judgment for god does not judge people.

God is not a judge. He says. Edgar casey believed that it is possible for a person to hold to his doctrine and to still identify himself as a christian. Well aren't there those who say well what difference do all these things make.

If you just love jesus. I've said that on two occasions. If you just love jesus all right. Edgar casey. And the holy scriptures. What's he believe about creation. I had a thought of two for you about creation.

His idea the creation of man and woman differs radically from that of the book of genesis. His readings these things he got show god as a lonely. Have you ever heard that. I've heard that preached in baptist churches.

God was lonely. He wanted fellowship and he made a man and woman. That's junk. You can't find that in the bible. But i've heard it taught in sunday school classes. I'll guarantee you. Some of you said that i've said it before i learned better.

Before i learned better i've said it i've thought it. God was sitting up there lonely. Well that's what he said. God was lonely and in need of company. So he spun off a part of himself for this purpose.

Now the scriptures declare that from eternity god was what. Never alone. God didn't need fellowship. God wasn't lonely. He wasn't alone. He never was. Christ was not created. But he's the son of god. He is co-eternal and co-creator with god the father and the holy spirit.

The triune. God is complete within himself. He has no needs whatsoever. He is perfect god. He has no need whatsoever. Never has and never will have a need. Nowhere in the bible does it say. So he doesn't have any need for for companionship.

Otherwise he could not be true perfect god if he had any need at all. He couldn't be true perfect god in god's triune nature. He has companionship love and communication all together in the godhead. He doesn't need anything else.

God is perfect god. That's weighty matters. People that's weighty matter. But it is true. Come out of this concept that god needs you and me. God doesn't need you and me. God's grace brings us to him and his love brings us to him.

But he sure doesn't need us. What do you contribute to god that he needs. Now you just think about your life. As i think about mine this frail thing. Well i gotta run to the doctor twice a month to keep me going.

What good i mean. What am i contributing to him that he needs me so much. Well he's got to have you to preach the gospel. No he doesn't. He's chosen to use me. But he doesn't need me. God could speak the word and everybody be christians if he wants to.

God speak the word and everybody be lost if he wants to. You think about the sovereign of god. Sometime it's quite instant quite instant. But we've we thought this all along. Now edgar's case is his concept of jesus christ that differs from scripture too.

As i understand scripture now you don't believe as i do. If you can show me some scripture i'll be interested in looking at them. Uh jesus claimed to be the christ the son of the living god. He claimed to be god incarnate god in the flesh.

The messiah of whom the hebrew prophets prophesied and foretold. He was fully man. He was fully god. The bible exerts emphatically that jesus was human. The bible exerts emphatically that jesus was human.

And it also just as emphatically says that he was divine. He was deity. In one jesus christ spoke of himself as the culmination of god's plan of redemption and the fulfillment of the father's promised israel.

Matthew 5 17 and other places of scripture that you want to look at. The bible also teaches you and me that jesus christ is presently with god the father and he's acting as an advocate on behalf of the believer first john 2 verses 1 through 2 and other passages of scripture.

Jesus also promised to return and to judge the earth and then rule the earth. John 14 1 through 3 revelation 19 13 through 16 and other passages of scripture. The bible says that he was sinless. 2 corinthians 5 21.

He never had any sin never seen perfect in all of his being. Now edgar casey taught that jesus was sinful. He was a sinful soul who had become perfect through 30 reincarnations. Here's what he said. Quote.

Then to the fact that jesus required baptism may further substantiate his rule as adam. Since there he had sin. Now why do you think he was baptized. I've shared this with you. I know brother don shared it with you.

Most of you know why was jesus baptized in the river jordan. Did he have sin. Well that's right. He did not. Well let me give you another thought that what some christian people some of these tangent groups want us to believe.

That's when he was filled with the holy spirit of god. Do you believe that. I believe he was filled with the holy spirit of god. He was god. Why was he baptized to identify himself with the will and the plan of god.

Why did the holy spirit descend down on him like a dove. Because the law required at 30 years of age that anyone going into the priesthood had to be anointed by god had to be anointed for his earthly messianic ministry.

And he's about to set out on his messianic messianic ministry. And he was offering himself to be baptized by john who was offering a baptism of repentance unto good works. And jesus was identifying him with a new godly movement.

And that's all. Jesus was perfect from the day he was born. He was perfect in pre-existence. Jesus has always been perfect. He's always. He's god. The holy spirit comes from god. The father god the son.

They're one in the god hand. But there are a lot of people want me to believe that. That's when he was filled the holy spirit and all this stuff. Well edgar casey had trouble with it. Just like they have trouble with it.

Let me give you something else. He said he too overcame surrendering all power unto the will of the father. That's an example for man. And only as a man. For he lived only as a man. He died only as a man.

If he died only as a man then he could not pay the infinite price that god demands for the payment of sin. Only god could do that. Only perfect god could pay a perfect price. And the infinite price that god demands for sin.

So we don't believe that at all. Now christianity rests on this fact. You say it rests on the resurrection. In a way christianity rests on the fact that jesus christ is god. Christianity rises and falls on the divinity of jesus christ.

It rises and falls on the deity christ. That's why every false group and cult attacks that point. Because satan well knows that's where it all hinges. If he is not true god then we are of all people most miserable.

And we have been deceived. I like oh well there's so many things. Let me go. The death of jesus christ. It either is substitutionary and perpetuatory or the entire event has no meaning whatsoever. The cross has no meaning unless it is substitutionary for you and me and less.

He is the propitiation for our sins the atonement for our sin and the payment the price for our sins. Or that cross has no meaning whatsoever. None. If jesus christ was a sinner if he was a master teacher then he was a liar.

He was a fraud and is possibly the greatest con artist the world has ever known. If that be true i like what c .s lewis the infamous agnostic who set out to prove christianity false and became a christian.

You study him in seminary and you study him in colleges. Wonderful wonderful man. And he wrote a book called mere christianity's screw tape letters and others that some of you familiar with is what he said.

I like this. You've heard it before. A man who was merely a man and said the sort of things jesus said would not be a great moral teacher. He would either be a lunatic on a level with a man who says he is a poached egg or else he would be the devil of hell.

You must make your choice. Either this man was and is the son of god or else a madman or something worse. You can shut him up for a fool. You can spit at him and kill him as a demon. Or you can fall at his feet and call him lord and god.

But never come with this patronizing nonsense about him being some great human teacher. He has not left that open to us. He did not intend to end. Quote. I love that boy. I quote that listen man i hit him with it.

You might not remember verbatim but you can sure hit it. And they'll sit and look at you because here's a man one of the most infamous agnostics of all time. If one accepts the bible they have to accept the deity of jesus christ.

They just have to all right. Man's sinful nature. What about does man have a sinful nature. The bible teaches that any and all rebellion against god is sin. Any rebellion all rebellion against god is sin.

Each person is a sinner. You know the scriptures roman 3 3 23 and other psalm 14 2 and 3. I don't think i wrote that psalm 14 verses 2 to 3 is an old testament concept. Romans 3 23 all of sin. Now in edgar case's readings and his trance they also talked of everyone being a sinner.