Live Responses to Hate Mail

Second Timothy 2 15. Be diligent to present yourself approved to God. A worker who does not need to be ashamed rightly. Dividing the word of truth. Alpha and Omega ministries presents the dividing line radio broadcast.

The Apostle Peter commanded all Christians to be ready to give a defense for the hope that is within us. Yet to give this answer with gentleness and reverence. Your host is dr. James White director of Alpha and Omega ministries and an elder at the Phoenix Reformed Baptist Church.

If you'd like to talk with dr. White, you can call now by dialing 602 2 7 4 13 60. That's 602 2 7 4 1360 or if you're out of the Metro Phoenix dialing area, it's 1 8 8 8 5 5 0 13 60. That's 1 triple 8 5 5 0 13 60 and now with today's topic.

Here's James White.

Hate Mail and the Charge of Unchristian Speech

And good afternoon. Welcome to the dividing line. My name is James White and we are going to be revealing how a terrible Horrible nasty man. I truly am today. We're going to be looking at some of the nuclear bombs the flames the attacks That we actually receive on a regular basis with Alpha Omega ministries.

Mainly aimed at me. I guess there are some general shots at at everybody but I get to take the most of the lumps and today I'd like to share with you some of the Information that has come in just this week.

Emails are the first two or emails that I received just this week. From individuals and I'm going to be responding to them on the air. And maybe that'll make some other folks think twice about sending me some of these things because I might just discuss What you have to say right there on the air.

I don't know but we'll be taking some of your phone calls as well. It's one triple eight five five zero thirteen sixty or six. Oh two two, seven four thirteen sixty if you're in the Phoenix dialing area.

And I am joined in studio today by a fellow that I knew when he was still young and who knew me when I was still young. In fact, Benny Diaz helped to record phone messages in our second bedroom before my children were born and.

Remember those remember Alan Willis made those counters for our phone lines the two six six two RCC two six six two Jws and two six six two LDS. I don't think we even had the two RCC yet. We did not because I remember yeah.

Because you had to you were there when we when we passed out tracts to them when the Pope visited the first time and that's when We put the RCC line together. And we had those counters there were that were that were tacked on to a piece of wood.

That would count every time somebody would call one of those phone lines. Remember those. Alan was truly gifted. He he was we'd sit there and watch the counter turn. And just rejoice at all the people that would call for the hear the message.

Oh and and we you know our website gets. You know 400 hits a day now and we were so glad and we get 20 phone calls in a month or something. Oh. We had we had no idea. But anyways, Benny is here with us with me today and he had no idea what I was gonna be talking about but the first two you'll find interesting because.

They're from Roman Catholics, and if it weren't for you, and if it weren't for us going to a Branhamite church. Was that down? Branhamite Church and Alberto Rivera, that's right. Alberto Rivera who has since departed this world.

Was there that night and you were there when he looked me right in the face and told me I was going to hell because I used the New American Standard Bible. I remember it well well anyways I wouldn't be having all these wonderful lovely messages from Roman Catholics if it weren't for you.

I did ask that with my wife today. I said Cindy. What have I done? Well, here's here's the first one that came in this week. Dear dr. White. I just finished reading your rebuttal of the Tim and Mark article now.

Let me explain what this is. Tim the Tim and Mark article if you have access to the internet. This is a an article on our website. Where I think about three years ago, I responded to a dialogue that Tim Staples wrote in some magazine.

I don't know where it was between a Catholic and a Protestant on the mass and so Tim and Mark. Tim was a Tim I think was the Catholic and Mark was the process we'll find out here in a minute anyways. I just finished reading your rebuttal of the Tim and Mark article whether or not you wrote it is immaterial.

It is posted on your website, so I address you well. I did write it I must say that by this article. I have a hard time believing you are a Christian. You don't refute with love and compassion. You utilize scorn derision and sarcasm, and then there's a quote from my article quote.

When hundreds of thousands of Roman Catholics go to mass Sunday morning after a raucous Saturday night. Unrepentant and unconcerned about spiritual things are you seriously suggesting that this results in their murdering Jesus and quote that's the only thing it's quoted.

I'll give you the context this just a moment, but our correspondent continues. Did you forget the verse in Romans 2 1 that says to judge not lest you be establishing the criteria that God will judge you on?

Is this the imitating of the life of Christ? Slandering prejudicial statements shame on you. Dr. White. What kind of Christian are you? I have read many of your articles and in most of them you have resorted to attacks of this nature.

I suppose you were thinking that Jesus attacked the moneylenders in the temple or attack the Pharisees and Sadducees their hypocrisy. Well, are you claiming the divine right here. Under whose authority do you make that claim?

I will pray for you that you are healed from this hatred that dominates you. His mercy endures forever forgiven by him to John Curry. Well, if anybody wants to look at this article, it's at a omen org slash mark and Tim Htm mark and Tim mark is capitalized.

Tim is capitalized, but everything else is small case ailment org mark and Tim dot htm and Here's what I actually wrote and here's here's what this person is basing this accuser. You're not a Christian.

Yeah, you're Slanderous and prejudicial statements and attacks and everything you do is like that. This is what this is what was written. But Tim isn't ready to move on quite yet. Instead he introduces Paul's words in 1st Corinthians 11 27 through 29 where Paul speaks the Lord's Supper he insists and then I start quoting from mr. Staples st.

Paul likewise emphasizes the real presence. But mark and that's our Protestant is ready. And here's the words I put into Mark's mouth. It is very common to him for Catholics to read back into scripture doctrines and concepts.

Developed hundreds and sometimes more than a thousand years after the writing of the New Testament. And that is what you were doing here. Paul speaks of the Lord's Supper a simple meal in which Christians proclaim the Lord's death until he comes.

Not an ornate sacrament in which they represent the one sufficient finished sacrifice of Christ on Calvary. The words of the passage do not speak to Aristotelian categories of accidents and substance nor do they refer to such things as Transubstantiation when you say real presence.

You need to realize that your idea of what that means continued to be a matter of substantial debate until the fourth ladder in Council in 1215. Importing such contexts concepts back into the inspired text is a common error of Roman Catholicism.

And then I went back to what Tim Staples had written, but Tim is insistent. How can one be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord if it's merely a symbol Staples had written? This Greek phrase for being guilty of someone's body and blood and a cos s die to somatos chi to haima toss to Korea.

You is a way of saying guilty of murder if the Eucharist is merely a symbol of Christ. Not Christ himself this warning would be absurd. So that's what Tim Staples had said. He had said that in that passage being guilty of the body and blood of Christ means to be guilty of murder.

And that's what I'm responding to and here is what I said in response. And this is what makes me a terrible horrible nasty person according to my correspondent. I Wrote wait a minute. Tim you are going way beyond the text here.

Not only are you flying past the statement in verse 26 that we proclaim the Lord's death not Represented it is a finished act in the past not something that is being represented as a propitiatory sacrifice in the mass.

But you have to import the entire concept of transubstantiation into a context that is utterly foreign. Pressive meaning it does not have to have upon. What basis do you insist that this has to mean guilty of murder and In the process skip a major problem.

How would unworthy participation in the Roman mass qualify as murder under your terms? When hundreds of thousands of Roman Catholics go to mass Sunday morning after a ruckus Saturday night. Unrepentant and unconcerned about spiritual things.

Are you seriously suggesting that this results in their murdering? Jesus and quote that's what I had said. I was responding to Tim Staples statement that this means to murder Jesus if you partake unworthily.

So as many Roman Catholics admit, and I've heard Roman Catholic apologists admit this. There's a lot of nominal Catholicism out there people go out on Saturday night. And they cuss and they swear and they commit fornication and then they go to mass on Sunday morning.

And they think that by you know doing their genuflecting and doing their thing. They're somehow making themselves right with God. If staples who then the result of that is they're murdering Jesus. Is That really what he meant to communicate.

That's all I said and yet we have an entire email saying that I'm a terrible horrible non-christian. Non-christian divisive prejudicial. Oh, man, you name it. You heard all the all the words there and that's what we we had to say.

Did you want to say? Well, here's the next one this is a little bit longer. This came in just this week. And I I assume I can't tell that this person attended the debate with Robertson Janice on Long Island.

I'm not I'm not perfectly certain but I am a Catholic. Who is vehemently opposed to any other Catholic giving James White another debate opportunity? James White the best example of miseducation. Craves for nothing more than publicity.

This is how he sells his fast-food type books. No man has ever hated truth as this white man and white is capitalized there in case anyone's concerned about that. And I continue no man has ever twisted scripture as this man who has set himself up as the arbiter of his own version of truth.

Nobody has ever twisted scripture as much as I have. You didn't tell that Benny no one I mean Marchione nobody in the history of the church. I've hit new heights. I continue the quotation. Unfortunately for him truth has no variables.

Here is a man who is so consumed by the fact that he wants to be recognized as a Protestant Intellectual that he would do anything to achieve that goal for years. He has been forcibly pushing himself towards that writing.

Of course on the back of the Catholic Church. He bemoans others for poor argumentation for poor logic for not being scholarly for not thinking thoroughly. Unfortunately, James does not think deeply enough to know that he is not thinking deep enough.

Think about that one a few times think deeply on it and you'll be able to figure that out. I continue. The first question one has to ask ask James is how did you come to know what you know about God in the scriptures?

Since he claims that he does not believe in tradition or in the magisterium. Does it not follow then that James is a self-taught man? I Stopped for just a moment to say no it does not this is a an example of the common errors made by Roman Catholics who a have never read my books and Be just are absolutely intent upon never listening to what I say in a debate on solo scriptura to reject the infallibility of the Roman magisterium is not to say That I have not learned things from other men.

It is to say that those other men are not infallible and that they are subordinate to the superior authority of Scripture. Anyways, I continue on everything he knows about God. He originated and developed by himself alone without the aid of books or formal education.

Well immediately anyone who has even taken a Second to listen to what I'm saying realizes that this person either has not or is desperately dishonest in their misrepresentation. You cannot selectively I continue on you cannot selectively rely on other people's ideas about God and at the same time claim that the Bible Is your sole authority?

This is a obvious obvious complete misrepresentation of solo scriptura. I could stop right here and simply dismiss such a person. But since there are so many of these people who will not listen to what we have to say and who grossly misrepresent solo scriptura.

There are so many of them that many people just they hear it so often they start believing. It's actually true. So let's listen to the rest of the errors. And by the way, this man's name is innocent mole.

That's that's the name. That is an actual name right rich. It is an actual name. Innocent mole is the gentleman's name and he signed it. So hey you signed the letter. I get to read it. Okay Protestants claim I continue on.

Protestants claim that salvation is God's work alone. Catholics would agree to this. That is not the case. Catholics would say that there is no salvation outside of grace. But Catholics are synergists and in fact the entire debate that we just had on Long Island was between Mistress and Janice who is a synergist that it's God's grace is the foundation.

But God's grace saves no one outside of their actions and their will and their Accomplished sacraments, etc, etc. And myself a monergist who believes God saves and God saves alone. However by that statement Protestants mean that man cannot collaborate with God and he God's saving plan.

Well, if that means that God is that man is dead in sin, we would agree with that I continue on they reject works as a denial of the sufficiency of God's power to save not bad. Have you not noticed that this is the only area of human concern where Protestants claim that man has no contribution to make?

This idea of faith alone in Scripture alone when taken together shows the hypocrisy of Protestantism. The truth is Christ said in John 16 13 when he comes the spirit of truth. He will guide you to all truth.

What do Protestants like James White with this promise? I think he meant what do they do with this promise? Well, I believe it was fulfilled in the Apostles very clearly in Scripture continuing on the quotation a Fundamentalist and they love that word.

They cannot differentiate between an Arminian fundamentalist and a reformed individual such as myself nor will are they willing to do so a Fundamentalist would have to conclude that by the above statement.

Nothing apart from the spirit of truth is required to gain truth. No, that's not the case whatsoever the promise of the spirits coming to the Apostles and guiding them into truth does not in any way shape or form vitiate the Presence of Scripture or the necessity of Scripture?

Why do they go to Bible colleges in search of truth? Listen to that. Why do they go to Bible colleges in search of truth as if the Bible College becomes a source of revelation Outside of Scripture rather than the Bible College being a place where you can learn to stay the scriptures even better.

Why do they go to Bible colleges in search of truth? Why do biblical analysis? Why read books? What are you looking for? Why even need the Bible since teaching the truth is the work of the Holy Spirit alone.

I Think everyone can see what the problem is here, but this is very common. So you need to know there are people who actually think this this way that solo scriptura means that all you need is You know you and the Bible out in the in the woods by yourself.

There's no church. There's no elders. No anything like that. There is I I cannot believe the ability of man to come up with ways of denying what solo scriptura is and twisting what it? Is it's absolutely incredible.

Why do Protestants think the Holy Spirit? Need help from Bible colleges or from pages of books of the types written by James White to accomplish Two tasks. It should be the task assigned to him. Well, and the Holy Spirit uses many means to teach his people.

He uses the elders in the church to preach and proclaim. He uses godly men of old to. I've learned many things from looking back at them that doesn't make them a rule of faith. They don't want the oral infallible exactly right.

Christ is able to save to the uttermost. Does he not think that the Holy Spirit is able to teach the truth to its utmost limit. Now there you have someone trying to parallel the presentation of truth in the church with the work of God the Father that is entrusted to the Son in John 6 38 to 39 where the Son is entrusted the salvation of all the elect people and He is not to lose any of them.

Obviously that parallel is not exactly solid and is not made in Scripture itself. Do they not think that they deny the sufficiency of the Holy Spirit when they seek truth elsewhere? We're not seeking truth elsewhere.

Perhaps he is not thinking deep enough. Well, maybe I'm not but then again. Maybe someone else is not thinking deep enough here. James White has James White who has become an expert in all fields including biology physics and astronomy.

I'm sorry used to claim that the Church of st. Augustine is not the same as the present-day Catholic Church. Correction here if we're going to quote me the present-day Roman Catholic Church and yes I would defend that debate against anyone continue on because the church in Augustine's day looked nothing like the Catholic Church of today.

I would thoroughly agree with that. It does not look like the Roman Catholic Church of today to borrow James's pep phrase more scholarly. Protestants admit that Augustine belonged to no other church than the same church identified as the Catholic Church of today.

No scholarly process recognized that they use the term Catholic Church of the church. They belong to but they would not have even understood what the term Roman Catholic Church meant. Anyways, I continue on to quote here again.

We see very shallow thinking on James White. I think it's on the part of James White but a very shallow thinking on James White if he had a mirror and looked into It he could perhaps Answer the question is James White of today the same James White of merely 40 years ago now.

This is interesting Benny that she would be there. I don't look like I used to remember. I used to have hair. I mean it was you know right here on top. It didn't glow when there were lights coming down from above and I know I think it's really unfair that you Being a Hispanic gentleman continue to have hair on the top of your head and pretty much now.

It's not quite the same color that it was. She kind of Your son is laughing and laughing in the control room there Benny. I didn't know if you wanted to know that or not. But anyways, no, no the James White of today Is not the James White of 40 years ago because I'm not 40 years old yet.

So that's anyways if he thought deeply if I thought deeply Benny he could say over the last 40 years I have changed while remaining the same person. Well, you know Paralleling mr. Mole Paralleling Christ Church and its truth with an aging man who is not quite yet 40 years old.

Anyways, I think that if you thought deeply on that might demonstrate that there's a problem here. Because you see my objections to the connection of the modern Roman Catholic Church with the Church of Nicaea or the Church of Augustine.

Is that no one in the days of Nicaea or in the days of Augustine? Believed and taught that you had to believe as a day-feed a doctrine the immaculate conception of Mary the bodily assumption of Mary papal infallibility Indulgences or the Treasury of Merit and we could go on from there to the idea of transubstantiation.

Which Augustine himself did not believe in transubstantiation the presence of Christ in the mass for him was very different than it is for modern Roman Catholicism, so if you want to say mr Mole that the Church of that day in the Church of today are the same then you have to come up with this not development hypothesis but this evolution hypothesis where something that was once X can develop into non X and.

That's the point that I've been trying to make and it would be nice if some of my opponents would actually deal with my arguments rather than with a very very poor misrepresentation thereof. I Continue to my quote the same could be said of the Catholic Church, which is forever one and has remained.

So for nearly 2 ,000 years, that's a statement of faith. That's not a statement of fact. That's a way around dealing with facts. The fact is that the Catholic Church of Nicaea or the Catholic Church of Augustine is not the Roman Catholic Church of today.

That's just simply a fact and you can't accept that fact because it goes against your ultimate Source of faith and your ultimate source of authority, which is the church itself. In his debate with Bob Syngenis I continue on he made what I consider the most childish analogy when when used the misuse of printer manual by someone Who does not know how to use the manual now, actually that was not with Robertson Janice.

That's the analogy I use with Tim Staples in our debate on solo scriptura in November of 1996 in Fullerton so he's I Have no idea whether I mentioned this in the question answer period mistress and Janice a year ago.

But I don't think that I did be that as it may he's talking about the analogy I've used many times and that is That a person who could be given the perfect printer manual that tells him everything to do with his printer.

If that person never reads the printer manual and they hook up their printer wrong and it doesn't work. Is it the printers manual fault? No, if that person were to read only two chapters of the printer manual and not all of it and Still messed up.

Is there mess up the printer manuals fault? No, the whole point of my analogy was that if we bring our own ignorance if we don't read the printer manual if we used a previous version of this printer and bring our Traditional understanding into the printer manual.

It's not the printers manual fault. It's our fault. We are misusing a sufficient source of information. And so that is the illustration he's referring to here that he identifies as being Childish his argument was that the Bible like the manual is sufficient in and of itself and that a misuse the manual cannot be blamed On the Bible or manual at least at that point.

He got it, right? This is a silly argument which reflects defective thinking on his part. I guess I do a lot of that. No reasonable person goes into a shop and spends money on a new computer or printer and goes home.

Rejoicing because it's new equipment comes the manual what is normative either in in secular society. Is that you buy the equipment and if you cannot use the manual to get your system working properly?

You're going to have to call customer service quickly. Totally ignoring the one issue that the analogy is meant to represent and that is when Roman Catholics say well. But solo scriptura has resulted in all these different viewpoints.

That's not the scriptures fault. That's our fault and mr Mo won't hear that. Instead he's he's he doesn't care about what the manual has to say. He only cares what customer service has to say. I continue on again in society today the availability of customer service is taken as a given.

The more service is taken as a given the more cautious buyers will go further than both the manual the customer service the customer service. To as far as signing up for maintenance agreement. No one ever buys from a company that does not have available customer service no matter how attractive or thorough their manual is.

Similarly our God is much wiser the church manual. The Bible is available to all however when there is a serious question a serious question. One needs to turn to the customer service the magisterium.

Again, the magisterium is the church's customer service team. And if one needs maintenance agreement one is invited to become initiated into the church who guarantees to faithfully administer the sacraments to you.

In your household the church will readily baptize your children will marry you confirm you give you last rights and even bury you. These are guaranteed in your service agreement with the church. No one should ever belong to a church that boasts that it does not have a customer service a teaching authority.

More could be said about James White and his scholarship, but I do not want to take more of your time. Etc. Etc. Etc. Although I despise giving James opportunity to insult Christ as he attacks his church I would still want to see how much hatred he is able to pour out this time.

He continues to better himself in this arena area because he has no regard for the church or anyone else other than himself. Nothing stops him from stooping as low as he can get. May God bless your work.

Innocent mole well there. That's the kind of stuff that comes across the The website and rich Pierce gets to read all of that stuff. And he gets to determine who to send it to but for some strange reason he decided to send it to me this time.

Thank you very much rich. I appreciate that I do not see all of it. I don't see all of it. There's there's nasty grams. I don't say but I see more. Yeah, Benny gets to see most of the Roman Catholic nasty grams, but.

So if you want to know who gets to read the Roman Catholic nasty grams it's Benny and we send the Mormon nasty grams to Sean Han and Some of the other nasty grams get sent to Simon and Mike Porter and so on and so forth so Those the folks who end up seeing most of the nasty grams well Here's an article that begins Popelet James white moans and pleads for mercy.

Popelet let me spell that for you. It's P-o-p-e-l-e-t Popelet. I had never seen that one before. Popelet James white moans and pleads for mercy. You know who this is from. This is from a King James only website.

Oh, yes, I'm not even give the address. I'm not gonna give him free advertising Popelet James white. I guess I guess I bet if you searched on AltaVista for Popelet. How many. You know I mean, that's not exactly a big hit.

That's right a good. See if Google's comes up with Popelet there you go. Here's what it says. I have the best one for you. It is the devilish moan of Jim white a Reformed Baptist all-millennialist how in the world is you know that he's never talked to me anyways.

Who has been soundly thumped by Tex Mars and Pete Ruckman. White has attacked the King James Bible which is the majority report of the reform movement on the Bible. I would hasten to note however that there are a number of reformed Church of America churches as well as the Netherlands Reformed Church and the Reformed Episcopal Church old-lined Reformation Tigers who are 100 and aggressively behind the KJV.

Add Theodore Letus of the Missouri Synod se NOD Lutheran Church, and you have a real bundle of trouble for Jim white the Bible basher. The article the following link and this is an article his link is four years old.

This was back before we even had a website. This is the net 30, Texas net remember that. Is full of tricks by white and admittedly some ignorance on Tex Mars part by the way. It's my response Tex Mars.

It's on the King James page on our website. But it shows how the snake pit of the Reformed Church Plays foul when they are cornered. White has to be in real trouble with the reform movement KJV people so he attacks Mars and Ruckman.

Why answer. Ruckman and Mars turn everything into a rowdy rodeo. White can play the dignity routine. And he looks like the wise man the Reformed Church theologians the Reformed Episcopal doctors and Theodore Letus.

Would deal white a death blow in his own arena. And it would be like shooting fish in a barrel. White is a wimp and I say that charitably of course two things. White is a wimp is attached to a wave file that plays a Cartoon thing where Yosemite Sam is saying he's as strong as an ox and about as smart as one if you click on it.

But they I guess he hasn't seen the debate I had with Theodore Letus which is on our website, and I'll tell you how to get hold of that. But I just realized I need to take a break.

We'll take your phone calls after this. Here on the dividing line. Back the dividing line.

My name is James whites and wanted to mention Calvary press .com is where you can go to see more of Calvary presses stuff including the Potters freedom finally came out a few weeks ago, Benny's holding a copy there and Getting a lot of response that book and a lot of folks buying more than one copy because they want to give it away to Somebody else for some strange reason isn't that interesting you know Benny was mentioning During the break that a lot of times when he calls and you work in the computer industry and and a lot of times when You call those Customer service lines guess what those people in the customer service line are doing they're looking in the manual.

You hear those papers rustling really quickly back there. They're going back to the manual. That's the problem. Rome. Rome's customer service agents have lost the annual. That's the there's the problem there.

There's a good response anyways. Let me finish this this article real quick from the King James only page. We'll take some calls. I didn't get the last one. I wanted to share with you from a Mormon perspective, but I do see there is a Mormon question so maybe we'll move into that.

But after all this stuff about me and stuff like that and the King James only page you've got. Please note that both of the above links stress creeds written by uninspired men. They almost totally ignore the Word of God the word is not sufficient to all reformed churches.

That is why they are now dead as a coffin nail. So you got to realize that for these folks for King James only folks. They're they're desperately anti creedal they have no confession, which is why they can sort of flip-flop around what they believe and They they're dead set against the reformed faith and so on and so forth.

Amazing stuff. Well, I want to get eventually to the March 2000 Apollo Gia Publication of the foundation for apologetic information research known as fair. I'd like to offer some comments about some untruths that they have uttered concerning me.

But first we've got a bunch of folks online, so let's start with Jim in Billings. Is that Missouri or Montana? How someone put mo up there? Someone who you know doesn't necessarily have all of their 50 state zip code things memorized yet, but anyways What can we do for you today Jim?

How are you doing today? I'm pretty good.

My question is this. If you had a chance to speak at promise keepers. Would you do it?

And why. No I would not and I would not because of the fact. Primarily because the fact that just a few years ago. And I don't have any information in front of me where I can give you the specific date or whatever but a few years ago.

It is my understanding that the statement of faith, and I did compare them I did download the old statement of faith and a new statement of faith of promise keepers was in essence run by a group of Roman Catholic theologians and a change was made that reflected those Roman Catholic theologians desire and in essence what happened was the statement of salvation by grace through faith alone.

Was changed to a statement that is basically in line with the ECT Document that speaks of salvation by grace through faith in Christ. The problem is if you do not use the phrase sola fide faith alone.

You need to understand that in Roman Catholicism Roman Catholics can say that we are saved by the grace of God alone through faith in Christ because that faith in Christ shows itself through the sacraments of the church and That grace is channeled through the sacraments of the church and so the whole reason for faith alone was to deny the issue of human works of merit deny the necessity of Sacraments as the channels of grace etc. Etc.

And so by removing that I think you have in essence betrayed the Reformation and Besides that there are a number of people who speak in the various promise keepers events whose theology I would have to thoroughly disagree with and For example, I I received an email a while back that in when promise keepers met in Utah That invitations were sent out only in Utah not in other places.

But in Utah to the LDS Ward chapels. And of course if I was going to speak at a promise keepers event in Utah, I'd have to very clearly speak on The errors of Mormonism and call call those folks to repentance and belief in Christ and so I I will I I can't do that with with a I Can't speak someplace where I'm going to be limited as to what I can say concerning the gospel itself.

So my answer would be no. I could not.

Promise Keepers, the Gospel, and Why He Would Not Speak There

Sort of confused right now, and I'm grieved at the same time because they have very well known author of the doctrines of grace. In fact, he was general editor of the Compromised Church the coming evangelical right.

John Armstrong. Yes. He's speaking there. Well, I can't answer for him, but I wrote to him and it just grieves me because you know exactly I think is I agree wholeheartedly with what you say and It's he says it's not more of a political problem.

It's more of a spiritual situation why he's speaking and you know, I think it's great that he's speaking there. But you know just the association with movement itself.

Well, if he if he goes there and he speaks the truth and he addresses those issues then You know sort of like Luther speaking before Charles. I Guess if he went let me put it this way if I were ever to speak of promise keepers.

They'd never have me back a second time. Okay, you know, you know. If that's what he's gonna if he's gonna go there and say you folks have have gone off the the narrow way. And he tells him that well, I suppose I could understand that but I doubt that anyone I doubt the promise keepers would ask somebody to come and speak when that person says well Here are the issues that I have with you.