July 25, 2023 Show with Ken Ham & Virgil Walker on “Divine Dilemma: Wrestling with the Question of a Loving God in a Fallen World”

Live from historic downtown Carlisle, Pennsylvania, home of founding father, James Wilson, 19th century hymn writer, George Duffield, 19th century gospel minister, George Norcross, and sports legend, Jim Thorpe.

It's Iron Sharpens Iron. This is a radio platform in which pastors, Christian scholars, and theologians address the burning issues facing the church and the world today. Proverbs chapter 27, verse 17 tells us, iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another.

Matthew Henry said that in this passage, we are cautioned to take heed with whom we converse and directed to have in view in conversation to make one another wiser and better. It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next two hours, and we hope to hear from you, the listener, with your own questions.

And now, here's your host, Chris Arnzen.

Good afternoon, Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida, and the rest of humanity living on the planet Earth, who are listening via live streaming at ironsharpensironradio .com. This is Chris Arnzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Tuesday on this 25th day of July, 2023.

I am absolutely thrilled to have two returning guests to the program. One of them, judging from the response of the publicity that we've given this program beforehand, is one of our favorite guests to ever have interviewed on this show, Ken Ham, who is founder and CEO of Answers in Genesis.

He will be on with us for the first 30 minutes of the program to discuss his new book, Divine Dilemma, Wrestling with the Question of a Loving God in a Fallen World. And then for the remaining 90 minutes of the program, we are going to be joined by Virgil Walker, author, executive director of operations at G3 Ministries, and co-host of the Just Thinking podcast.

And he is going to be continuing that same theme of Ken's book, Divine Dilemma. And we are also going to be announcing an event where Ken Ham, as well as many other speakers, are on the roster at the 2023 G3 National Conference in Atlanta, Georgia, where I will be, once again, manning an exhibitor's booth, as I always do.

But to continue letting our listeners know something more about Ken Ham, not only is he the founder and CEO of Answers in Genesis and its two popular attractions, the acclaimed Creation Museum and the internationally known Ark Encounter, which features a life-size, 510-foot-long Noah's Ark, sometimes described as the eighth wonder of the modern world, both hosting 1 .5 million guests annually.

He's also a much-in-demand Christian speaker and interview guest, hosts the daily radio program Answers, now on 1 ,000 stations. He is the founder of the award-winning Answers Magazine and Answers TV, two-time winner of the top award from the National Religious Broadcasters for Best website, AnswersinGenesis .org, a prolific blogger and author of more than 30 books.

It's my honor and privilege to welcome you back to Iron Sharpener's Iron Radio, Ken Ham.

Hi, Chris, great to be with you.

It's always a thrill to have you on the program, and we look forward to many future return visits from you. Well, for those of our listeners, they must be living in a cave somewhere if they don't know about this absolutely mind-blowing Ark Encounter that you have created.

Why don't you tell us about the Ark Encounter briefly before we move on to the subject of your book?

Sure, the Ark Encounter and the Creation Museum are actually the two leading Christian-themed attractions in the world, and so we did something that's sort of rather unique to build these attractions.

The Ark is a life-size Noah's Ark, so it's a true timber-frame structure, the biggest timber-frame structure in the world, actually, and it's 1 1⁄2 times the length of a football field, half the width of a football field.

It's built 15 feet off the ground, stands 10 stories high at the bow, and 3 .3 million board feet of timber filled with three decks of 130 exhibits answering all sorts of questions about God's Word, the Bible, the flood, post-flood, presents the gospel very clearly.

We have a zoo behind it as well, a children's zoo. We do live animal programs. We have a virtual reality ride. We have carousel. We have zip lines. We also have a conference center, and we do all sorts of programs there, daily programs.

We have our own resident music artists. There's nothing like this place in the world, and the Creation Museum, which was built before that, actually is a whole walk through the Bible, planetarium, 4D theater, and so on, so these attractions are doing something instead of us going out there to reach people in a sense, and we still do that through conferences, speaking other means, but we're bringing people into these attractions.

They come from all over the world, actually, and 30 non-Christian will come. People will come to these attractions that don't go to church, and these attractions are the quality of Hollywood. I mean, every bit the quality, I think, better than even Disney, so they're very unique, and they're in northern Kentucky.

Well, praise God. If anybody wants more details on how they can visit the Ark Encounter, go to arkencounter .com, arkencounter .com, and we will try to remember to repeat that at the end of the program, even after Ken has left the program.

Well, you have this new book that is not on the subject directly of creationism. It is on a problem or a dilemma that is something that has been considered by mankind for as long as mankind has been writing anything down, and obviously even before that, but The Divine Dilemma, Wrestling with the Question of a Loving God in a Fallen World.

That is likely one of the most used excuses for individuals to throw in the face of a Christian when being evangelized, and when their heels are being dug in, and they are looking for any excuse to shut that evangelical Christian up.

It is, how could a loving God allow such indescribable inhumanity and evil in this world? And of course, not only that, but you even have Christians on occasion who go through a crisis of faith. They may be going through the worst trial that they've ever experienced in their lives, and they may be even starting to wonder that.

But tell us, first off, your very most profound thought on this very worldwide and ageless question.

Well, you know, Chris, you said that it's not about the typical creation evolution issue, age of Earth, and so on, but it does relate to all of that, and that's the point, because Genesis 1 to 11 is the foundation for everything.

And here's a point to start with. If people do not believe Genesis 1 to 11 is literal history, and sadly, many of our Christian leaders don't, and many people in our churches don't, then you're not gonna answer this question correctly.

You're not gonna have the foundation for the answer. So the first thing is you've got to start with the history in Genesis 1 to 11 that is foundational doctrine. It's foundation to the rest of the Bible, to our Christian worldview.

It's foundational to everything, actually. And when you start with that foundational history in Genesis, you realize death is an intrusion because of sin. In other words, the first thing we have to understand is God's not responsible for death and suffering.

We are because we sinned in Adam against a holy God. But you know, that's an important point because we have generations today who have been doctrinated to believe in millions of years, that there was millions of years of death and disease and suffering leading up to man.

And sadly, the majority of our Christian leaders, Christian college professors, academics, pastors in our churches have told people you can believe in millions of years and doesn't matter. If you believe in millions of years and all the death and suffering we see today and disease has gone on for millions of years, then it's God's fault.

And then what you're really saying is God's to blame for that. The Bible makes it very clear. It's our sin that's to blame. That's why Jesus died on the cross. In fact, if you're saying God's responsible for death and disease, it's really an attack on the character of God.

Then what did sin do? Then why did Jesus die on the cross? So we've got to get this part right before we even deal with this question of understanding a loving God and the death and suffering we see. And you know, in the fossil record, there's not just death, we see fossils, but there's evidence of diseases like cancer.

Those who believe in millions of years believe all that existed before man. And Christians who then take the millions of years and add it into the Bible, then have cancer before man, before sin, that after God made man, he said everything he made was very good.

There was no death or disease or suffering. In the New Testament, death is called an enemy. And one day death is going to be thrown into a lake of fire. And the Bible tells us there'll be a restoration of all things when there'll be no more death and no more tears, no more suffering.

So the first thing we have to understand is what Romans 8 tells us. This is a groaning world because of our sin. And then we can stand back and then start to think about the question, okay, God is a loving God.

If he's a loving God, why does he allow us to go through all this? I mean, death was the penalty for sin. We deserve nothing. Because we rebelled against a holy God, we don't even deserve to exist. But God placed upon us the curse of death, the judgment of death, our bodies die.

But he did that so that he could come and rescue us. And he stepped into history in the person of his son to die on the cross and be raised from the dead so we can spend eternity with him. And that's why it says precious in the sight of the Lord is the death of one of his saints.

Because death is a judgment for sin, but through death, Christ brings us life, eternal life with him for those who put their trust in him. And you know, this particular book is a very unique book, I believe, because it's written from a perspective of myself and my mother as we're grappling with the death of my younger brother.

My mother had to go through the death of my father when he was fairly young at 66 years old. She passed away when she was 92, actually. And I had a younger brother who was quite a number of years younger than me.

And he ended up with a terrible brain disease. It was horrible, the things that happened to him. And just to see him lose his ability to speak and teach, he was a great Bible teacher, stood on the word of God.

And I remember my mother even saying things like, you know, the liberal pastor down the street that teaches against the Bible, he's as healthy as an ox. But my son who loved God and loved his word, he, look what's happening to him.

And I reminded my mother, you know, mom, yeah, even though Robert has got this horrible disease and he's gonna die, well, that liberal pastor down the street is gonna die. But when Robert does, he'll be totally healed, which he is now totally healed.

But if that liberal pastor doesn't repent of his sin and put his trust in Christ, he'll be separated from God for eternity. And, you know, we had to struggle through all these issues. And in the book, I talk about, you know, it's okay for us as Christians to grieve.

It's okay to ask those questions. I mean, we still struggle, you know, why did God let that happen? You know, Robert left a family and he was so young. He was such a good Bible teacher. Don't we need more Bible teachers?

You know, but we don't see things as God sees them. And I think the big lessons through the whole book and for people, this is a long way to answer the one question you asked me.

Oh, I love it.

That the big lesson is really when you start to understand from a perspective of the book of Job. And you see the book of Job, people say, well, isn't that about death and suffering and what happened to Job and what happened to his family?

And we get a little insight at the beginning of the book that God allowed him to go through all of this. And, you know, his friends gave him all sorts of bad advice and so on and trying to justify things in their own eyes and that sort of thing.

And then even when Job started to talk to God about, he was being a good man and he trusted God and so on. And then what happened? And this is the point I think where we need to come to this. All of us need to come to this position.

When Job listened to God and God said, Job, can you do this? Can you do that? Can you do this? It's interesting how God talks about the creation in particular. You know, what about these stars? Can you bind them together?

Can you do this? Can you provide this? Can you explain how this works? And you go through Job 38, 39, 40, 41. And at the end, Job gets it. And he repents and asks and he says, now I see you, you know all things.

And I think, you know, the position we've got to come to is this. Just because from our perspective, something doesn't make sense, or we can't see something good that could come out of it or anything like that.

Think about with Joseph. I mean, all sorts of evil things happened to Joseph and what his brothers did to him. And yet later on, you look back and say, wow, what they meant for evil, God meant for good.

Or you could look at Queen Esther the same way. And I could even look back at my brother's death and realize, wow, this book that's been written about him, now there's hundreds of thousands, maybe millions more people.

And with all the interviews I do, I'm going to hear about this and God will reach more people through his death than even in his life. Maybe that's part of the purposes of God allowing him to go through all this.

But the point is, we know nothing compared to what God knows. And just because we can't see everything and understand it all, doesn't mean God doesn't have some special purposes for those things. And something can, God can take evil things and evil circumstances and use them for good.

You know, you take what happened on the cross. When Jesus died on the cross, it was an evil event. And even the disciples at the time couldn't even understand it, didn't make sense. Even though the prophecies were there in the Old Testament, it's still, they didn't get it, didn't make sense.

And now we look back and say, wow, God used that evil event, the most evil event in history, you know, where they crucified the son of God. And yet God used it for eternal things. Wow. And that's what we've got to do.

It doesn't mean we don't grieve. It doesn't mean we don't struggle. We don't ask God those questions. And I go through that with my mother and she never questioned her faith. She was always a great woman of faith and witness to people, but she struggled.

And she struggled with these as we all struggle and still do to an extent. And it's okay to do that because we're human, we're finite, but we still have to come to that place where we let God be God. And that's the whole point.

So it's a very unique book in that way as I open myself up personally, a lot of personal circumstances, personal struggles, the things we went through, and yet looking at it from a big picture perspective, but you've got to start with the foundational history in Genesis 1 to 11.

Until we get that right, we're not going to be able to get anything else right.

Amen. Well, I'm going to give our listeners our email address if you have a question for Ken Ham. Keep in mind, he's only on the first 30 minutes of the program today. So if you do have a question, I would fire it off immediately because we're already over halfway through his segment of today's program.

ChrisArnzen at gmail .com, C-H-R-I-S-A-R-N-Z-E-N at gmail .com. Give us your first name at least, your city and state, and your country of residence. It's interesting that people would claim that this dilemma of there being a loving God in a fallen world somehow disproves the existence of God as if this finite human being who must be aware of their limitations and impotence and frailties, how they could think that God does not exist just because his own demands of what must be required of God in his mind don't appear to be in existence.

Isn't that an amazing thing, that puny man would dare question the existence of God because they don't meet his requirements?

Well, you know, it's interesting. I've talked to a lot of Atheists over the years, a lot of secularists, and they will say things like, look, if there's a loving God, how come he let these bad things happen?

He's so unjust and so on. The first thing I say to them is, wait a minute, if you're not a Christian and you don't believe in God, then what do you base your standards? Why can you accuse something else of being unjust?

Why could you accuse God of not doing something that's right? How do you determine what's good and what's bad? It's like in the New Testament when that man came to Jesus and said, good master, and he said, why do you call me good?

There's only one good, save God. And so really, you know, it's only from a Christian perspective that we know what is good and what is bad. And so for a non-Christian, they can't come and accuse God of being unjust or say, how can you believe in a loving God?

Because they have no basis, no absolute basis for justice in that sense, for determining what's right and what's wrong or what's good and what's bad. So that's the first thing that we need to understand.

So it's only the Christian who can really understand about good and bad and what's evil and so on. And then we have to come to that understanding that there's one God who is the absolute authority and it's God who determines what's right and what's wrong.

And so it's only on that basis that we can even begin to understand these things. And, you know, in regard to the ultimate question of the origin of evil and so on, I mean, there's some of those, part of those mysteries and understanding, we don't know everything.

We do know that God gave Adam a choice, the first man. We do know that the devil was there and tempted Adam and Eve and that Adam succumbed. And we know that Adam gets the blame for sin, right? Not the devil, because Adam brought sin and death into this world.

We don't understand all there is to know about those sorts of things. We're not God, only God understands. And one day when we're in heaven, maybe God will give us more understanding of those sorts of things.

And maybe it's just something that we wouldn't even get if he explained it to us right now as finite human beings. But regardless, what we've got to do as Christians is to understand who God is. He's a creator who is infinite in knowledge and wisdom.

He is all powerful. He is all knowing. That's what we've got to remember. And the Bible is his word. And he's revealed to us all that we need to know about who we are, where we came from, what our problem is, sin, what the consequence is, death, and what the solution is in Jesus Christ.

And you know, for anything, when you look at any issue at all, and these days there are all sorts of issues, the abortion issue, the gay marriage issue, the racism issue, LGBT issue, it doesn't matter what it is, the death and suffering issue, they're all different symptoms of a problem of man trying to understand life and reality.

And there's only one solution. It's the right foundation to understand all those. And that is the truth of God's word. And the solution is the saving gospel. I mean, that's really what it comes down to.

And that, to me, is something I put in the book, in Luke 18, you know, the Terror of Siloam fell on people and killed 18. And Jesus said, were they worse sinners than others that they would die? And then he answered the question.

He says, repent. So think about that. Why did these people die? And the answer is repent. In other words, everyone's gonna die. So when someone says, why did that person die? And that's something else I talk about in the book.

You know, people say, well, why did your brother die? But wait a minute, everyone's gonna die. You're gonna die. Everyone's gonna die. And what was Jesus' answer to that with the Terror of Siloam? Repent.

In other words, make sure you're ready because your turn will come. And make sure that you put your faith and trust in the Lord Jesus Christ.

Before I go to a listener question, I vividly recall when I arranged a debate between Dr. James R. White of Alpha Omega Ministries, who's one of the speakers along with you at the upcoming G3 Conference, and the man who was, at the time, the president of American Atheists, the organization founded by Madeleine Murray O 'Hare.

Dr. White was challenging David Silverman on how he can come up with a list of rules that would reflect whether someone is good or evil. In fact, the very theme of the debate was, is the New Testament evil?

And David Silverman said that evil is determined by whatever the vast majority of people in a particular region of the world at a particular time in history deemed to be evil. So James White said, and keep in mind, David Silverman is an atheist Jew.

He's ethnically Jewish. James White said, so if you were being marched into the death camp of Dachau or Auschwitz, the worst complaint that you could summon up was not that this is evil, but I find this personally offensive?

And David Silverman actually had to admit yes. He could not say that that was evil.

It's all subjective, and therefore people can have different rules and determine different definitions of good and bad, and that's what happens when you build your thinking on man's word. Anything goes, moral relativism.

And we have our first listener question. Grady in Asheboro, North Carolina. Greetings, brothers. One of the biggest problems I see in the church today is that it seems most Christians don't know the attributes of our God.

Because of that, they fail to realize that he is sovereign and he sustains us. Do you agree?

Oh, absolutely. They don't understand the attributes of God, and you know what? They don't understand the holiness of God. They don't understand what sin has done. They don't understand how finite we are.

You know, one of the problems we've got, if you go back to Genesis 3, 1 and 3, 5, when the devil tempted Adam and Eve, he said, did God really say? And then you can be like God. And our sin nature is really summed up in that we don't want to believe the word of God, and we want to be our own God.

And we all have that sin nature. And so we have got to make sure we don't let sin master over us. And I think today a lot of people, because they haven't been taught Genesis 1 to 11 as literal history, they don't understand the origin of sin, the origin of death.

They don't understand how we rebelled against a holy God. Then they don't understand the holiness of God. They don't understand what it means that we are sinner, that the heart of man is deceitful above all things and desperately wicked.

And they don't really understand who God is. That's why we've got to be, and I keep coming back to Job. We've got to be like Job. Every one of us needs to come and recognize we know nothing compared to what God knows.

He's the infinite creator God. We know nothing compared to what he knows. And we need to let him speak to us and not us tell God what we think he means.

Thank you, Grady. You've just won a free copy of Divine Dilemma. Thanks to our friends at Master Books who have given us a limited number of copies to give away to listeners who ask questions. And so please make sure we have your full mailing address and Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service, cvbbs .com.

We'll ship that out to you. We have Arnie in Perry County, Pennsylvania who wants to know, I don't know how many people today remember Rabbi Kushner's book, Why Bad Things Happen to Good People, but does that book have any influence on the church today in your opinion?

You know, I don't really know whether it has a lot of impact. I mean, I know of the book, Why Bad Things Happen to Good People, but I will say this. I think what has had a great influence on much of the church today is a lack of biblical teaching.

There's a famine in the land. My Hosea says my people suffer from a lack of knowledge and there's been a lack of teaching in regard to Genesis 1 to 11, which is the foundation for all doctrine for everything.

I think that is what's had the impact on the church today.

You know, it's interesting that even though most evangelicals at least, I'm quite confident that many liberals would still agree with Rabbi Kushner putting limitations on God, like God would stop pain and suffering if he could.

That was Rabbi Kushner's answer, that God couldn't do those things. But there are many evangelicals that have a similar heresy in that they remove God's involvement from any kind of human suffering. In fact, I worked for a radio station, a major radio station during the tragedy, the horrific attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon Building on 9 -11, and there were many evangelicals trying to give comfort to our listeners with brief sermonettes.

And they were saying, don't listen to the lie of the devil that God had anything at all to do with this. Isn't that an equally dangerous concept of God as if he is just observing things and sitting passively by?

Oh, absolutely. I mean, God is totally in control of everything. He is God. He's sovereignly in control of all things. I mean, again, that verse from Romans 8, 28, all things work together for good. But then it says for them who love the Lord, in other words, for Christians.

And we have got to recognize that God is in control of everything. There's nothing that does, that happens that he doesn't allow or that he is in control of because he is, he's the sovereign God. And so when we look at these things, we say, but that's so evil.

Why would God allow that? Well, why did he allow what happened to Joseph? Why did he allow what happened to, you could even start to talk about Shadrach, Meshach, and Bendigo and Daniel and Esther, and you can go through them and you can see, why did God even allow his son to be crucified on the cross?

As we said earlier, isn't that an evil event? Of course, it was a terrible evil event. And yet God's purposes were fulfilled in the salvation of man through that evil event. So no, God is in control of everything.

He is God. That's, again, it's the lesson that Job learned. He felt we have to fall down in dust and ashes and say, even though I don't understand everything, and I can't because I'm a finite being, I have to let God be God.

He's in control of everything.

Well, we are out of time. We do have more people waiting to have their questions asked and answered, but Virgil Walker will have to answer your questions on the same theme, because we are continuing the same theme of Divine Dilemma.

And I want you to summarize as briefly as you can what you most want etched in the hearts and minds of our listeners today about this book.

You know, one of the things I want people to understand is that, you know, the issue of how do you understand a loving God and all the death and suffering and disease is first of all, beginning and understand the problem that we have, the problem that we are finite beings, that we are sinners, that we sinned against a holy God, and that death and suffering is not God's fault.

It's our fault because we rebelled against a holy God. I think we've got to understand what sin is, what our sin is, the holiness of God, and then to stand back and understand God is in control of everything.

We deserve nothing. And yet he provided the solution for us in Jesus Christ. And while we're on this earth, we're gonna go through the pain of having diseases and death because we're not above the consequences of sin.

We have to suffer those consequences of sin. And yet God is in control of all of that. And through that, God has provided a wonderful way of salvation for us. And even though we might not understand the things that are happening around us or happening to us or happening to others, we have to stand back and look from a big picture perspective as Job did and recognize God is God.

He's in total control. Nothing happens outside of his control. And he does allow evil things to happen for his own purposes. And sometimes we can look back and see them as we can look back on the cross and see that or Esther or Joseph and others.

Sometimes we can't and maybe we won't until we get to heaven. But regardless, we've got to let God be God. And that's where it stands.

Amen. Virgil Walker has just joined us, the Executive Director of Operations at G3 Ministries. Would you like to say a quick greeting to Ken Ham, Virgil? And I guess Virgil stepped away from his seat.

Well, it has been an honor and privilege again to have you return to our program, Ken. I really look forward to your return visits and I will promote anything that comes from your labors and your pen because I have nothing but the highest confidence that you are accurately and faithfully representing God's truth in this modern world.

Thanks, Chris. That's very special of you. And I look forward to talking with you again.

And Virgil, can you want to say a brief greeting to Ken?

No, just thank you, Ken Ham, for your ministry. It's been a blessing to me and so many others. So we're looking forward to having you at the G3 Conference.

Hey, I look forward to being there. We'll see you there. Okay.

All right, God bless you, Ken.

Bye-bye.

And don't forget about the website for Ken and Answers in Genesis is answersingenesis .org, answersingenesis .org, and we will give you more details about the other events and things that Answers in Genesis offers toward the end of our interview with Virgil Walker.

And we're gonna continue this theme, as I said before, with Virgil Walker when we return from our first commercial break. If anybody has a question for Virgil on the very theme that we started with Ken, divine dilemma, wrestling with the question of a loving God in a falling world, send it to chrisarensen at gmail .com, chrisarensen at gmail .com.

We'll be right back with Virgil Walker, so don't go away.

The Mid-Atlantic Reformation Society presents The Future of Christendom 2023, The Gospel at War, September 15th to the 16th in Lancaster County, Pennsylvania featuring Dr. James White of Alpha and Omega Ministries.

We are excited to be including a formal debate in this year's conference. Dr. James White of Alpha and Omega Ministries will be debating Dr. Gregory Coles, author of Single Gay Christian, A Personal Journey of Faith and Sexual Identity.

The debate topic, is gay Christian a biblically acceptable identity for a member of Christ's church? So come join us for the sixth Future of Christendom conference. The event will take place at Spooky Nook Sports in Mannheim, Pennsylvania, and will run from Friday evening through all day Saturday with an invitation to the Sunday morning worship service of the Independence Reform Bible Church.

This will be a weekend packed with practical teaching with a theme of the Gospel at War in many areas of our culture, including government schools, the Supreme Court, missions, feminism, and even the church pulpits.

Head to futureofchristendom .org.

James White of Alpha and Omega Ministries here. I'm very excited to announce that my longtime friend, Chris Arnzen of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, and I are heading down to Atlanta, Georgia again for the G3 National Conference.

That's Thursday, September 21st through Saturday the 23rd on a theme that I have been preaching, teaching, writing about, and defending in live public debates for most of my life, the sovereignty of God.

I'll be joined on the speaking roster by Steve Lawson, Voti Baucom, Paul Washer, Virgil Walker, Scott Anuel, and Josh Bice, founder of G3 Ministries. And there's more great news. Chris Arnzen of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio can get you a 30 discount off the registration fee.

Go to g3min .org, that's g3min .org, and enter promo code G3ISIR. That's G3ISIR for the 30 discount. Chris Arnzen, I look forward to seeing you all Thursday, September 21st through Saturday the 23rd for the G3 National Conference in Atlanta, Georgia on the sovereignty of God.

Make sure you stop by the Iron Sharpens Iron radio exhibitor booth and say hi to Chris Arnzen while you're there. Go to g3min .org and enter promo code G3ISIR for your 30 discount off the registration fee.

I'm Brian McLaughlin, president of the SecureComm Group and an enthusiastic supporter of Chris Arnzen's Iron Sharpens Iron radio program. The SecureComm Group provides the highest level of security, close-circuit television, access control, and communication systems for Manhattan's top residential buildings, as well as churches, commercial properties, municipalities, and more.