Round Yon Virgin

The Christmas Message on the Virgin Birth

Good morning! It looks like a few new faces out there but most of you guys are familiar. It's good to see y 'all again. We have we have been studying Galatians and I know that I had said that we would be talking today about Abraham but we are going to deviate from our schedule and I'll do that next week.

I will be here next week even though it's Christmas week. I'll be here Thursday because it's the day after Christmas so I'll be here that morning. So we'll do the we'll do the Abraham history next week.

Today we're going to talk about the virgin birth because it's my Christmas message. It's the last time I'll see you guys before Christmas. So I like to talk about this. I usually teach on this at my church every year because I think it's an important topic and it's something that often is sung about.

It's often stated but it's rarely understood in regard to its significance. So that's what we're going to do today. We're going to look at the subject of the virgin birth, why people would deny it because there are people who deny it.

We're going to talk about some unbiblical teachings that surround it and then we're going to look at why it is a necessary belief in Christian theology. So that's the three parts of today's lesson. We'll do as much as we can in the time that we're given and hopefully we'll be able to get through the whole lesson.

You guys ready for that? Yes sir. All right we'll open up your Bibles and turn to Matthew chapter 1. And as you guys know I enjoy teaching theology. Our church motto is theology matters. So today may seem less like a sermon and more like a theological lecture but it's important information.

So I pray that you would stay with me and stay focused. So Matthew 1 .18. Now the birth of Jesus Christ took place in this way. When his mother Mary had been betrothed to Joseph before they came together she was found to be with child from the Holy Spirit.

And her husband Joseph being a just man and unwilling to put her to shame resolved to divorce her quietly. But as he considered these things behold an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream saying Joseph son of David do not fear to take Mary as your wife for that which is conceived in her is from the Holy Spirit.

She will bear a son and you shall call his name Jesus for he will save his people from their sins. All this took place to fulfill what the Lord had spoken by the Prophet. Behold the Virgin shall conceive and bear a son and they shall call his name Emmanuel which means God with us.

When Joseph woke from sleep he did as the angel of the Lord commanded him he took his wife but knew her not until she had given birth to a son and he called his name Jesus. Let's pray. Father I am ever grateful to be here today to preach and speak to these men on the subject of the Blessed Virgin birth of the Lord Jesus Christ.

Father I am humbled that you would give me this opportunity and I pray that the men under the sound of my voice today would understand how much they are cared for first by you and Lord also by the men who are here leading them and Lord finally by me.

I pray that they would understand the value that they have in Christ and Lord that they would understand how important it is that they do come to know Christ if they haven't already. I pray Lord for the believers that they would be encouraged by today's message and Lord for those who are not yet followers of Christ that they would find themselves broken under the weight of their sin that they would see that there is only one solution one Savior there is only one name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved and that is the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and as in his name we pray.

The hymn Silent Night was written in 1818 just a little bit over 200 years ago and it contains the very familiar phrase round yon virgin mother and child round yon virgin you've sung that? Have you all sung Silent Night at church this year?

Have you or have you not? Do y 'all sing? Do y 'all sing any? Yeah you sing songs of the word virgin in it you you talk about sermons and you use the word virgin you talk about the season it's very awkward in a sense because this word becomes very very common one month out of the year especially if you're like me and you have small children you know I have five all the way down to two years old and you start throwing out this word and you have to sort of give an explanation what does it mean and why are we stressing this word?

Why are we so focused especially this time of year on the idea of a virgin birth? Why is it so important and why must the Christian believe it? Now I want to and I do want to state that as a categorical imperative the Christian who is faithful to the Bible does not have the option of denying the virgin birth.

I'm going to stone that out right now. If you want to argue later you can. I'm not arguing during my sermon I don't have time to do that but I will say it categorically I do not believe that the Christian who is faithful to the Bible has the option of denying the virgin birth.

So that being said we're going to begin our three-part lesson by looking at the many people who do deny the virgin birth and why. So we're going to start with that many people deny the virgin birth and I want to start.

First of all I just want to make a category correction because we keep saying virgin birth but actually the only reason I do that is because that's how most people think of the term but actually the term that we should use is virgin conception.

Because as far as we know the birth of Christ was a normal birth. That there was nothing particularly miraculous about how he exited the womb but we believe there was a miracle in how he entered the womb.

How he became a man if you will. So really it's not the miracle is not in the birth the miracle is in the conception. So there are people who deny the virgin conception of Jesus. The first category of course are and this is sort of a long list but I'll get it just quickly.

Unbelievers, skeptics, agnostics, atheists and false religions. Those would all deny the virgin birth. Unbelievers of course would say I don't believe it. That's just in the title right? And agnostics would say I don't know, don't care.

That's typically the two-fold thought of the agnostic. I don't know, I don't care. Okay the atheist I know it's not true. They are saying I don't believe it's true and I know it's not true. And then of course there are the other religions.

There's Islam and others that would that would deny. Actually Islam believes in the virgin birth interestingly enough. So I guess I shouldn't have used Islam as a category. Islam believes Jesus was Messiah.

They believe he was virgin-born. They do not believe that he was divine and that he was the Son of God. So that's the that there's a distinction there. They believe he was virgin-born. Yeah yeah exactly.

But but it's interesting that they don't deny the virgin birth. So so so I can't really put them in that category. But of course the Jews would deny the virgin birth. Of course other religions would deny it.

So all those categories we could say okay we understand why they would deny the virgin birth. They're not believers. They're not they're not Christians right. But then there's the category of people who would identify themselves as Christians who would deny the virgin birth.

Now I'll tell you how this how close to home this hits for me. When I was a kid I grew up in the same church I preach in today. Most of you know that I've told my story here before. But our church wasn't always the church it is today.

In fact we changed our name years ago. We used to be called Forest Christian Church. Now we're Sovereign Grace Family Church. And the reason why we changed our name was was because we had changed in our theology.

We had become more biblical. We had more understanding of the Word of God. We had changed as a church. Therefore we changed our name. And when I grew up in this church as a little boy the church was socially conservative but theologically liberal.

Now you know the difference between conservatism and liberalism right. I don't have to explain that. But when it comes to theology a lot of people don't understand theological liberalism. We think of social liberalism as people who believe in a lot of things that are that are social issues like economics and things like communism socialism things like that.

People who are socially liberal. But what is theological liberalism? Theological liberalism is people who would say I believe in Jesus but I don't believe much of what the Bible says about Jesus. So for instance when I was about eight years old our church had a new pastor.

And this new pastor came in everybody thought he was a great guy you know he was preaching he was doing what we thought he was supposed to do. And again I was a little boy I didn't know I didn't know anything from anything.

Well come to find out after about a year of him being there come Christmas time he was preaching and it came to find out he didn't believe in the virgin birth or the virgin conception. He didn't believe it.

We didn't know that we had hired a theological liberal. Now I go back and I say I would have known I would have I would have I would have wrecked this guy over the coals while we were interviewing him for the job.

But again I'm in a different place now than I was 30 years ago and of course the church is in a different place than it was 30 years ago. So I'm not condemning them I'm just saying today we would it would have been one of the first questions.

Tell us what you think of Christ from start to finish. Is he divine? Is he the son of God? Is he born of the virgin? You know are these things true or not? And if you can't affirm them then be on your way.

So again this hits close to home for me to know that our church for at least a year had a pastor who didn't even believe in the virgin birth. And you say well why would someone do this? Again the the answer is they believe at least verbally confessionally they say they believe in Christ but they don't believe everything the Bible says about it.

That's theological liberalism. It's one type of theological liberalism. Yes I believe in Jesus but I don't believe in miracles. How are you going to do that? Yes I believe in Jesus but I don't believe that he did raise the dead.

How are you going to do that? It's just this liberal idea that I can have a what I call cafeteria Christianity. I would take a little bit from here a little bit from here but I'm not going to have the whole spread.

I don't want to I don't want the vegetables. I don't want the meat. I just want the maybe the chocolate sauce or whatever. You know that's how you treat a cafeteria right? You get what you want you leave what you don't.

And that's the way that liberals treat Christianity and the Bible is they say I'm going to take what I want and believe what I don't. And the thing that theological liberals often do is they deny those parts of the Bible that they consider to be miraculous.

I remember one guy who was teaching on the feeding of the 5 ,000 and he said well you know what it is is Jesus didn't really take five loaves and two fish and feed 5 ,000 people because that would require creating something out of nothing.

That would require a miracle of creation right? Because you don't get 12 baskets of fragments left over from five loaves and two fish after feeding 5 ,000 people. You have to create more things right?

Jesus is actively creating fish and bread in that miracle and he said I don't believe that. He said what I believe is that Jesus came to a crowd of 5 ,000 people. Some of them had their own food. Some of them had no food and Jesus convinced those who had to share with those who didn't have.

And what we have here is a great socialist miracle where the great King Jesus convinces the haves to share with the have-nots. And all the liberals in the crowd that's such a great interpretation. It's garbage.

It's absolute garbage. I have to be careful what I say but it's garbage. It's not what the text says. It's not how you understand that situation at all but that's theological liberalism. We're going to take something that the Bible says is true.

If the Bible says this is what happened we're going to step back and we're going to say well that can't happen because it's a miracle and I don't believe in miracles and so I'm going to give it a different spin.

I'm going to change it. I'll give you an example. Harry Emerson Fosdick. You may have heard that name. Kind of a famous liberal pastor back in the day and he was the pastor of the first Presbyterian church of New York.

He said this in a sermon on the virgin birth. He said Christians may hold quite different opinions on the virgin birth. So what's he saying? Well you can be a Christian. You can believe Jesus was born of a virgin.

You can be a Christian. You can believe he wasn't and you're both fine. Again garbage right? Just absolute garbage. But that's the idea is that you can have two and Christians can all be happy and sing kumbaya and sit around a campfire and nobody has to believe anything.

This is not accurate but this is this is theological liberalism. Gerd Ludeman who is a who is a liberal scholar. This was his quote. I want you to hear this how strong this quote is. He said the tomb was full the manger was empty.

Listen to it again. The tomb was full the manger was empty. So he's denying the resurrection because he's saying Jesus was still in the grave. That's the tomb was full and he's denying the the virgin birth because he's in the manger.

That story didn't happen and this story didn't happen but I'm still a Christian. Really? I'm sorry I keep doing that but it's just it really boggles my mind that somebody said I can still be a Christian but I'm going to deny all of these things.

So what this is this is an example of what is known as the anti-supernatural worldview. And you may not have ever heard that term. That was actually something I wrote about when I was in seminary. I said that the problem with liberalism is the is the presupposition of anti-supernaturalism.

I wasn't just trying to use big words with what I was saying is that the the liberal presumes or presupposes that all miracles are impossible. Therefore every time they read about a miracle in the bible it is not true and they have to interpret it another way.

For instance Moses with the parting of the red sea. You hear all kinds of liberal explanations. Well there was a there was a meteor that hit the water and that caused the water to split. A lot of people like that idea except when you read the text.

First of all if a meteor hits a river hard enough to knock it apart it would kill everybody within several hundred yards if not miles because the impact crater by itself would be tremendous. It doesn't work at all scientifically but also the bible says the water stood as a heap on both sides.

And if there's one thing I know about water it's water don't stand up. Water doesn't pile up. You can't you can't put water on top of water and it stand up. If you put water down it just flows. Water doesn't stand as a heap.

Yet the bible says the water stood as a heap on both side and the people of Israel walked across on dry land. That's right. That's miraculous. It is not something that can be explained through the scientific process.

I'm telling you as a Christian I'm encouraged. I'm asking. I'm telling you. You have to believe in the supernatural if you believe in Christ. He is a supernatural person. The story about his life is a supernatural event.

Nothing. People say well I don't believe in the resurrection because resurrections don't happen. That's the whole point. The whole idea of a miracle is this don't happen. The whole idea of the virgin birth is this don't happen.

Nobody. Nobody in here was born of a virgin. None of your daddies were born of a virgin and none of their daddies were born of virgins. There's only one person in the history of ever that was born of a virgin and that's Jesus.

That's what makes it the miracle that it is and it is a supernatural event. It supersedes. It rises above natural because we all know how natural works. Natural works the introduction of the man and the woman in a relationship whereby procreation occurs through the joining of the seed in the egg and through a process nine months later a child is birthed.

That's the natural process and that's the way it's done every other time except this time. This is the one exception. Okay all right. So now I do want to share with you a biblical argument against the virgin birth.

Now I've been saying I believe virgin birth. I believe virgin birth but here is one of the one of the in fact it's the only argument I've ever heard that I think deserves an answer because if you simply say I don't believe in miracles well then you don't believe the bible.

We're done. Right that that you know okay you don't believe the bible. You don't believe in miracles. Okay but there is an argument from language that I think needs to be responded to and I want to respond to.

So in your bibles hold your place in Matthew. Turn to Isaiah 7 14. Now Isaiah is written 700 years approximately before Jesus Christ was born. Isaiah 7 and 14. Now we just read this in Matthew because Matthew quotes this passage but let's read it here.

Isaiah 7 verse 14. This is 700 years before Matthew was written. Okay. Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign. Behold the virgin shall conceive and bear a son and shall call his name Emmanuel.

What does that say? The virgin will conceive and bear a son. Does anybody's bible because I know when I come in here we got a myriad of translations. I've been the ESV. Does anybody's bible say anything other than virgin?

Virgin? Anybody say anything other than virgin? All right here's why I ask because in Hebrew the word that is used there is the word Alma. It's a Hebrew word and the word Alma is not the technical word for virgin.

It's the cultural word for virgin and I'll give you the difference.

Can we shut that dog up and put her outside? Please. I don't want him out.

Yeah she can be in here. I don't care. All right so Alma and Bethula. You said well what's the difference? Alma is the cultural word. Yeah she's fine right here. Bethula is the literal word for virgin.

So Alma is the cultural word. Bethula is the literal word for virgin and you say well why does this matter? Well some people argue that instead of translating Alma as virgin, it should be translated as maiden rather than virgin.

Therefore the translation would go like this. Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign. The maiden will conceive and bear a son. Now that changes things doesn't it? I mean at least mentally. At least yeah it's not saying virgin.

They say see it doesn't mean virgin. It just means maiden. So the reason why I asked if all you're about because there is one translation. It's the revised standard version, RSV. Very older translation.

Liberally influenced translation and if you go to Isaiah 7 14 in that translation it says behold it either says maiden or young woman. I have to go back and look. It says young woman. Yeah yeah it says the young woman will conceive and bear a son and you say now now that's not the same as as virgin.

But here's the thing you have to understand about language. There's more than one way to say something. Often there's multiple ways to say something and in the culture in the language of the Hebrew people both Alma and Bethula have the.

Idea of virginity. Yes sir. Mine says right here virgin is translated from a Hebrew word. He's for an unmarried woman old enough to be married sexually mature. Refer to a woman about to be.

Married yeah. Yeah but again unmarried and the the idea of Alma is a woman who is of marriageable quality. If you found out the woman wasn't a virgin that would often cause the person to not want to be married to her because she'd not kept herself for the marriage.

In fact go back to Matthew 1 in your mind what did Joseph do when he found out Mary was pregnant? He decided he didn't want to be married anymore right? So there is a certain sense in which Alma refers to not only a woman of marriageable age but a woman of marriageable quality.

Virgin right? So the idea is virgin. Now we have looked at the two words Alma and Bethula. We say Alma is the word that means maiden. Bethula is the technical word for virgin. Now if Isaiah would have used Bethula wouldn't be any question there would be no reason to even have this conversation.

But he didn't. He used Alma. So why would he use Alma rather than Bethula? I don't know I wasn't there and I'm not the Holy Spirit I can't tell you. But I will say this it's not as ambiguous as the liberals would have us believe.

Because the liberals are saying oh he used Alma he's not talking about a virgin. Why do we believe he is talking about a virgin? I'm going to give you two reasons why I believe he is talking about a virgin and it should be absolutely unquestionable.

Number one when the Bible is translated by the New Testament writer Matthew he quotes this passage directly and when he quotes this passage directly remember we read it earlier Matthew 1 I think it's verse 23 he well he's it's in Greek now so different language but he's translating it from Hebrew into Greek and when he translates it into Greek I know I'm sorry about the marker he uses the word parthenos parthenos p-a-r-t-h-e-n-o-s parthenos is the Greek word virgin.

In fact if you've ever heard the term parthenogenesis it's a it's a medical term and it simply means to be asexual reproduction like a like there are some animals that don't have to have sex to to produce some in their plants and things that are able to produce asexually and they call that parthenogenesis means essentially virgin birth right.

There are there are there are places in in in the animal kingdom where that can happen and so parthenos means virgin no doubt. And some people say well wait a minute pastor that's the new that's the New Testament and those New Testament writers were influenced by Jesus and the things that had happened.

You can't use that to make your argument because those guys might have changed Isaiah's meaning a little bit. He had a meaning back here 700 years before and it was made and they come along and they say oh we're going to change it to parthenos.

And you got this kind of conspiracy theory. Right. That's another thing liberals love love conspiracy theories can't just be the truth. It's got to be some garbage. That's cool. Somebody's sneaking in somebody's coming in the back door.

Okay so let me give you the other reason. Not only does Matthew and Luke refer to the virgin birth from Isaiah 14 not only do both of them quote and say that it is the virgin. Parthenos will bear a son.

But there is something called the septuagint. Now if you don't know the septuagint is the septuagint is the greek translation of the hebrew old testament. The septuagint was written about 200 years before christ.

You've heard of alexander the great. Alexander the great was conquering the known world. And one of the things that he did in seeking to conquer the world was the spread of his teaching the greek culture and the greek language.

This is why by the time christ comes along the language of commerce the language of the people was koine. Koine is greek for common. It was the common greek language. That's why the new testament's not written in hebrew.

The new testament's written in greek. Because that's the language everybody used. It was the language of business. It was the language of commerce. It was the language of the common man. Everybody spoke greek.

And so the new testament's written in greek. So 200 years before christ there was a group of translators. These translators translated the hebrew bible into greek and they translated the book of isaiah.

And they translated isaiah chapter 7. And they translated isaiah 7 14 without any influence from the christians. Right. Because there are no christians. Because there's no jesus yet. This is 200 years before jesus.

You with me on the timeline. Right. 200 years before christ. They cannot be influenced by the christians at all. They translate the words of isaiah into greek. 200 years before christ they translate it as parthenos.

They use this word which in greek absolutely means virgin. Which means this. The understanding of the hebrew people was that isaiah meant virgin so clearly that when they translated it into a new language they used the language virgin.

So when isaiah 7 14 says therefore behold the lord will give you a sign the virgin will conceive even though he uses the word that's somewhat ambiguous. It was not ambiguous in the culture because they understood by the way.

There's no miraculous sign for a young woman to have a baby. Therefore the lord himself shall give you a sign. Behold the young woman will have a baby happens every day happens thousands of times a day.

There's no miracle in that. But when you say the virgin shall conceive that's the lord giving you a sign. So language wise and linguistically there is no argument. Isaiah said the virgin will bear a son.

Matthew quotes it. We shouldn't have any doubt. Yes sir. Well and i was reading the footnotes about it says that one of the characteristics of a maiden is that she's a virgin. That's right characteristic.

It is talking about 200 years before and everything you just talked about but that's definitely one of the characters right here you know. Absolutely yeah that's what i thought.

Yeah yeah and it does because if a woman was not a virgin she wasn't a maiden. She was she was called a a you know a woman of ill repute or. Yeah. Yeah i mean we read about that in proverbs. Right. The the the woman who would lead you to destruction.

You know. Uh so absolutely yes sir yeah we're getting there. You jump it you jump in five steps ahead but you're all right. I appreciate the love because that's right. We're going to get there in a second though what i'm showing now is why people would disagree why the only argument i've ever heard is this as far as from a from a biblical perspective and it's either this or i don't believe it.

And that's typically the the the majority report people say i just don't believe it. But those who try to make the linguistic argument are standing on thin ice and not even any ice. They've already fallen in.

It's crushed. The argument's destroyed. They drown. Yeah absolutely. They they they're drowning and and and all. Right. So that's that's. We talked about the people that deny the virgin birth. Now i want to very quickly and because of time i don't have a lot of time i want to quickly look at the unbiblical teachings that surround the virgin birth that some of you may have heard especially if you grew up in a roman catholic church.

Now if you grew up a roman catholic i'm not here kicking the shins or step on your feet or anything. I love you. But there are some things that the roman catholic church added to the virgin birth some theology that was later added.

That's not biblical. And it's important that we understand what's true and what's not right. Because we don't want to stand on untruth. We don't want to stand on tradition. We want to stand on scripture.

And if the scripture says it we believe it. If the tradition disagrees with the scripture we throw the tradition out. Right. So there's two things i want to mention. One is the that mary was sinless. Okay now again these are false.

So let me go ahead and write that in case somebody sees this oh jesus is pastor teaching that mary was sinless. No i'm saying this is false huh. She just found favor in. That's right. But the but the roman catholic church official teaching on the virgin mary is that she was without sin.

And they base this on a false teaching called the immaculate conception. See a lot of people think the immaculate conception is jesus's conception. But it's not the immaculate conception is the belief that mary was conceived without sin so that she could be the sinless uh vessel for jesus.

How far back would they go with that. Because everybody. Yeah exactly. There has to be a perfect line. But they basically just say her parents had an immaculate conception where she was born without sin.

Therefore she could be the sinless bearer of the son of god. Um the bible does not teach that. The bible does not tea. In fact that that teaching wasn't even part of roman catholic theology. Uh officially until 1854 it was proclaimed by pope pius the ninth on december 8th 1854.

That's 1800 years from the time of these events. So that that's one big you know matzo ball is hanging out there. But but i mean but the other issue is is if you want to write this down luke luke 146 and 47.

Luke 146. In fact if you have your bible turn there real quick or somebody i want somebody to read it to me. If you would luke 146 and 47 because not only is mary being sinless not taught in the bible i would argue the opposite is taught that she is a sinner.

Who wants to read it go ahead and got her. What. What. Okay what. Again i'm gonna keep saying all right. I'm making sure we hear. What does she say. My heart rejoices in god my savior. She wouldn't need to be saved.

That's right. If she was sinless she would not need a savior. Mary needed a savior. The same way all of us need a savior. Because mary was a sinner. Mary was not perfect. And the scripture clearly says that she saw god as her savior.

And uh and so i would argue that would deny the idea that she was sinless. Well the other the other unbiblical teaching that often surrounds the virgin birth is called the perpetual virginity of mary.

She stayed a virgin even after that. Yep. Well this is very common in roman catholic theology. But they actually had other children. We're gonna get there. You guys outrun me every time. But but it's true the the idea roman catholic theology.

And again i'm not making this up. I can take you to documents. I can take you to roman catholic teachers who would tell you mary not only was sinless from birth. Not. Only did she live her life free of sin.

But she never had any intercourse. Therefore she remained the blessed virgin.

Small thing. He even said that he didn't have sex with her until i'm getting there. I haven't got.

That verse matthew says until. But that's yeah. But but their their argument is. And you've heard roman catholics even today they'll call it they still call her the virgin. Right. They refer to her as the blessed virgin.

Right. Um now that yes they do believe mary is a mediator with christ. Right. That mary to get to the sun you have to go through the mother. That's a that's a the one of the little quaint expressions.

Yes there's a lot of idolatry. Uh so. But again this is what is sometimes taught. Mary did not give birth to jesus normally because her virginal integrity would have been compromised. And you know what that means.

Well what they believe what they believe. And i and i and i'm not going to this is not official roman catholic teaching. But there's difference on this. But what some believe is that jesus was translated from the womb to the so he just like essentially came through not out.

Yeah. Yeah it came through the womb. Uh this is a miracle in it. It would be a miracle. And if the bible said it i would have probably i'm gonna tell you if the bible said jesus came out of the womb without going through the the vaginal canal.

I have no problem with that at all. If that's what it says. But that ain't what it says. And again they're introducing traditions on top of the text. That ain't there. That's the danger. Right. We can say we believe in the virgin birth we can say we believe mary was conceived by the holy spirit.

But what we can't say is what ain't there. The bible never says mary was sinless either before during or after giving birth to jesus. The bible never says that she remained a virgin. In fact the opposite is true.

We'll look at very quickly matthew 12 uh 46 if you want to just turn there very quickly matthew 12 46. Let me let me just real quick let me read this real fast. And then i'll answer your question. It says while he was still speaking to the people behold his mother and his brothers stood outside asking to speak to him.

So right there. And in several other places refer to jesus's brothers and sisters. Okay brother ask a question. That's true. That's true. That's what i say that. But for speculation. Yeah. But again that's.

And that's true. Going with that he just said a good word. At that point we're speculating. At that point we're saying something the bible doesn't say. And there's just as much danger in speculating something it doesn't say as there is in in arguing with what it does say.

Right. So if we add and say well he didn't come out he didn't come out through a natural birth. Where are we getting that from. We're not getting it from the text. So that's my thing. I'm not saying it's impossible.

I'm saying there's no reason to believe it. You know there's no reason to believe jesus didn't fly. But the bible doesn't say he did. So i'm not going to say he did. You know what i'm saying. That's. And i'm not trying to be sarcastic.

I'm just saying if it doesn't say it we can't proclaim it. And they're proclaiming this as what what happened. And the bible doesn't say it. And the reason for their argument is that she had to remain a virgin.