March 2, 2017 Show with William Edgar on “Created & Creating: A Biblical Theology of Culture” PLUS Mack Tomlinson on “A Biblical Understanding of Death”

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Good afternoon, Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida, and the rest of humanity living on the planet Earth who are listening via live streaming. This is Chris Arnzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron, wishing you all a happy Thursday on the second day of March 2017, and I'm so delighted that we have back in, or should I say, back on the Iron Sharpens Iron program again, William Edgar, author and professor of apologetics at Westminster Theological Seminary, and many of you know he was on the program yesterday.

William Edgar and a Biblical Theology of Culture

Well, we have him back again today to discuss another book he has written, Created and Creating a Biblical Theology of Culture, and it's my honor and privilege to welcome you back to Iron Sharpens Iron, William Edgar, and in studio with me is my co-host, the Reverend Buzz Taylor.

Hello, I'll agree. It's good to be here again, Tulsa.

And for anybody who would like to join us on the air with a question for Brother Edgar, our email address is ChrisArnzen at gmail .com, ChrisArnzen at gmail .com, C-H-R-I-S-A-R-N-Z-E-N at gmail .com.

Please give us at least your first name, your city and state, and your country of residence if you live outside of the USA. Our second guest today, 5 to 6 p .m. Eastern time, will be Mack Tomlinson, pastor of Providence Chapel in Denton, Texas, speaking on a biblical understanding of death.

And as many of you know, there was a mix-up yesterday, and it was entirely my fault, where I had double-booked William Edgar and Mack Tomlinson for the same hour yesterday. And thankfully, that did not create any kind of a nightmare, and Mack Tomlinson is going to be on the program today, God willing, and we have William Edgar on again for this first hour.

Well, before I even go into the topic at hand of the book you've written, Creating a Biblical Theology of Culture, I'd like to know something about Westminster Theological Seminary, or as I should rephrase that, I'd like you to tell our listeners something about Westminster Theological Seminary, because there are listeners to this program who have joined us for the first time it seems every week.

We have new listeners, and there may be some who are unfamiliar with Westminster Theological Seminary, because we not only have new Christians at times listening, but we sometimes have people who are not even a part of the Christian faith who listen.

So why don't you.

Explain to our listeners the Westminster Theological Seminary. And I know quite a.

Number of folks who have graduated from that fine institution and have interviewed your president, Dr. Peter Lilback, and Carl Truman, and quite a number of other members of the faculty over there, and it's always a pleasure to interview anyone from Westminster Theological Seminary.

And this book that you have written, it is published by InterVarsity Press in their academic wing, created and creating a biblical theology of culture. Tell us about the catalyst.

Of why you wrote this book. Much of my life studying the... In one way, this detailed critique is not going to be in this book. This is more of the principle to be published.

And I know that most of our Reformed listeners, theologically Reformed listeners, will be familiar with the name John Frame, but I'll read you a plug or a commendation for this book by John Frame, who is a professor of systematic theology and philosophy at Reformed Theological Seminary.

Dr. Frame says, Bill Edgar's created and creating is the most thorough and the most solidly biblical contribution to the current discussion of Christ and culture. Edgar's analysis of the historical discussion is wonderfully erudite and nuanced.

His treatment of biblical texts and principles is deep and cogent. His conclusion is that God's cultural mandate to Adam is still in effect, and that the great commission of Jesus Christ applies that mandate to a world lost in sin.

I hope and pray that many will read this book and take its message to heart. And as I said, that was John Frame. Quite a powerful endorsement, indeed, for this book. And I know that you have this book broken up into three parts.

You start with the parameters of culture. The second part is the challenges from scripture. And the third part is the cultural mandate. If you could begin from the first part with a cultural analysis.

The first part,.

Based back on the agenda. And then you go on to biblical and theological reflections. Exactly what do you mean by that? Culture and what I design as admonition accommodate with the world, more to the church, reconciling to himself.

And then finally, in the third multiply and fill the earth. Perhaps you could contrast, compare and contrast on both ends of the spectrum,.

How you believe, in your opinion, both liberalism and much of modern day evangelicalism are violating specific principles you're laying out in this book.

Well, don't you think, though, that there is another wing of evangelicalism that might even.

Be more dominant today that is really imitating what the Church of Rome did in many ways. The Church of Rome is notorious over the centuries of history for having gone into pagan cultures and retaining many of the pagan customs and mixing them with the doctrine and practice of Rome.

Many believe that that is why the Church of Rome, even today, has statues that they venerate and so on. But you have evangelicals today who seek to draw lost people into their churches by appealing to the tastes, the cultural tastes, of the pagan by, instead of preaching, they'll put on a play.

They will adopt the music of the secular culture that very often is the most shocking and displeasing to the more conservative Christians who would find it dishonoring to God. And very often they wind up just doing bad imitations of what the world does very well.

If you could comment on that. Maybe you disagree with my comments.

I do agree.

The second thing it does is in culture...

And by the way, I wanted to make a clarification to our listeners. I did not mean to imply that I think it is wrong for Christians to have theatrical plays and performances. What I was speaking specifically of is churches who replace sermons and have things like that because they are more appealing to the lost community around them.

But we have a listener who is originally from Davao City, Philippines. I don't know if I'm mispronouncing Davao or Davao. He now lives in Kannapolis, North Carolina. His name is Casey. He asks, this is a huge question that doesn't necessarily...

It's not necessarily on the topic we are addressing, but it is more involved in your role at Westminster Theological Seminary as an apologist. And obviously this would require a summary because you could fill more than one program on his one question.

Casey asks, what are some mistakes in apologetics that Christians make regarding the topics of creation, death, and evolution? And how can we make our apologetics better?

Yeah, that is... I think, after many years of teaching, I realize more than ever. Why not many of you... I appreciate the question.

And guess what, Casey? You have won a free copy of Created and Creating a Biblical Theology of Culture by William Edgar, compliments of InterVarsity Press, the academic wing. And you should be getting that within a week or so.

Thanks to our friends at Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service, CVBBS .com. That's CV for Cumberland Valley, BBS for BibleBookService .com. And we thank Todd and Patty Jennings for being faithful supporters of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

We're going to go to a break right now. And by the way, Casey, make sure you stay tuned for the second hour because your question involves death, which is our main topic with Mack Tomlinson, 5 to 6 p .m. Eastern.

But if anybody else would like to join us on the air with a question for William Edgar for the final half hour, he is with us. Our email address is chrisarnsen at gmail .com. C-H-R-I-S-A-R-N-Z-E-N at gmail .com.

And please give us your first name, your city and state, and your country of residence if you live outside of the USA. Don't go away. We will be right back with William Edgar right after these messages.

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Welcome back. This is Chris Arns, and if you just tuned in to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, our guest today is William Edgar for the first hour, with a half hour to go. He is the author of Created and Creating a Biblical Theology of Culture.

In our second hour, we will be joined by Mack Tomlinson, who will be discussing a biblical response to death. But if you'd like to join us on the air now with a question for William Edgar on Created and Creating a Biblical Theology of Culture, our email address is chrisarnsen at gmail dot com.

Chrisarnsen at gmail dot com. And we do have a listener in Slovenia. Joe in Slovenia asks, Please ask Dr. Edgar to discuss how the church should best engage culture without being sussumed by it. What are the major pitfalls resulting in failure to be in the world and yet not of the world?

How does the church remain relevant and in culture as God's gospel agent without taking on the trappings of the world in the process? What are the guiding principles to achieving engagement while avoiding immersion?

Those are many questions that are really asking the same thing. And if you could respond to that very insightful series of questions.

Well, the bottom line is a lot of room for in the case, because he believes in giving access to people to be welcoming. Paul tells us, he says, you know, don't confuse them with they won't know. The general answer is no of life, which includes politics.

But you're not outrageously in need of response. The church from time to time, I think, is right to make a declaration for today.

And of course, we could do a week worth of programs on music, and we wouldn't even scratch the surface on that topic. Obviously, there is nothing innately wrong with using melodies of a secular world to sing praises to our Lord.

But it depends on whether or not those melodies distract from the very message that we are singing. And obviously, there are certain melodies that overpower the words. There are certain melodies that convey sensuality, or frivolity, or things that are just totally robbing us from the atmosphere of worship.

And those are obviously things that are to be considered. In fact, we have a question on music right now. We have RJ in White Plains, New York, who asks, Should not, out of Christian humility and having more concern for others than yourself, we treat those in our congregations with utmost respect, especially the older senior citizens among us, who may find an introduction of new modern worldly music into our worship services as being frightening and distasteful?

Even if we can come up with legitimate reasons for using new melodies in our worship services, should not the opinions of those who are our senior saints be of great value to us, and should we not be concerned of how they will respond to these things?

My answer to that one is, that doesn't mean, though, that not only you want melodies, this stuff is not world leaders.

Yes, and it's also rich with biblical content. There's nothing soft-pedaled with the gospel in those particular artists you mentioned. And you also, if anybody listens to radio that may be going under the guise of old-fashioned Christian music, very often you hear songs on stations like that, not all stations like that, but on some of those stations, some songs that are laughably ridiculous, that are, that are, you know, that actually some of the country western or barbershop quartet style singing can bring frivolity into serious subjects that are being sung about.

Yeah, I once heard a, he saw a lot of you, you know, it's so engaging, so you have to be careful. Yeah, there are limits if you stepped over the border. You mentioned something earlier, the atonement or crisis.

Yeah, and I don't know how many of you can understand the words of the battle hymn of the republic, but there seems to be some very odd things being sung in that, that hymn.

It has a very odd beginning.

Yeah, but by the way, I forgot to mention, both Joe in Slovenia and RJ in White Plains, you have also each won a free copy of Created and Creating a Biblical Theology of Culture. You have an interesting subtitle in your second section, Facing the Contramundum Texts, and immediately I thought of Athanasius, Contramundum being against the world, correct?

Some of those, God's good, there'll be doctrines of forbidding people, Paul calls those doctrines, it's a beautiful, you give thanks for it, an agent.

Yes, and in fact, obviously, Peter had a very radical revelation from God about the foods that were no longer prohibited from his people, and that was a, that was an astonishing thing at that time, for a Jewish man who thought that to be honoring to God, he was to abstain from pork and other things, he is now being told he is sinful from prohibiting these things to others.

Yeah, that's right, so much about, we just have a hard time, and that's an outstanding example.

And you have a section or a subtitle under, in the second section, that says, The World, No Friend, question mark, explain that.

It's with God, and there are places when it's, you know, friendship with.

Susan in Newville, Pennsylvania wants to know, when we read Paul's warnings in Romans 14, not to cause a brother to stumble,. I sometimes wonder when we are in the company of those such as Seventh-day Adventists, who do not typically eat meat of any kind, and view Saturday as the Sabbath, are we to be constantly reminding them that they are wrong, or are we to not eat meat in their presence, and accommodate them according to their beliefs, as to not make them stumble?

Yeah, that's it, not so much with sure, he's concerned, the weaker brother, I think, is probably a new Christian, really not talking about, so in that case, he's not saying, somebody, he's not saying, and we are out of time, and I definitely want to have you back.

Very soon, William, because not only can we continue a discussion on this book, but you have many others that I want to address. I know that the Westminster Theological Seminary website is wts .edu, do you have any other contact information you care to give?

No, that's probably the best, if you go there, and if you want to contact me.

Well, great, well, God bless you, brother, and we look forward to having you back on the program.

Very soon. Okay, Chris, thank you.

All right, God bless, and don't go away, because coming up very soon, God willing, is our second guest, Mack Tomlinson, who is going to be addressing a biblical approach to death, so if you hang on, we'll be joined by Mack Tomlinson any moment, God willing.

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A Biblical Understanding of Death

Well, our second guest for the second hour of the program today is my friend Pastor Mac Tomlinson of Providence Chapel in Denton, Texas. We are discussing a biblical understanding of death, and he is also going to be promoting the Fellowship Conference New England in Portland, Maine, but it's my honor and privilege to welcome you back to Iron Sharpens Iron,.

Pastor Mac Tomlinson. Greetings, thank you for having me again, it's always a blessing to be.

On with you. And I apologize from the depths of my heart for the error made yesterday when I completely forgot that I had already booked William Edgar for our second half of the program, and when he called in, he totally took me by surprise.

He obviously beat you to the punch when he called in, and I had completely forgot that I had already booked him, so I'm glad it worked out that you could be with us today. Glad to be with you. Well, before we go into the topic at hand, tell us something about Providence Chapel in Denton, Texas.

Our church is a Reformed, Baptistic congregation in the heart of Denton, which is in North Texas, about 30 miles north of Dallas, 30 miles north of Fort Lee, the gospel and the truth of God's word and missions, and we have a real community of fellowship, so anyone in North Texas within, who's interested in a Reformed, Baptistic church, free to contact us.

Our website is.

Providencedenton .org. Great, and I'm still praying that my brother John, who lives about 10 minutes from you, eventually does visit that church. I am not ceasing in my prayer for that end.

We would love to meet John and be with him anytime. In fact, I would invite my listeners.

To join me in praying that my brother John, who lives not far away from Providence Chapel, does eventually come to visit that church and meets my dear brother Mac face-to-face. I'm looking forward to that coming to fruition.

Tell us also something about Fellowship Conference New England. My co-host, Reverend Buzz Taylor, used to live in that area. Your Fellowship Conference New England will be in Portland, Maine, as it is every year.

Tell us about this.

Conference. Well, the conference started approximately five years ago when some Christians in Portland, the greater Portland area, they would both encourage pastors and believers and Christian families, so they approached us because we have a Texas fellowship conference here in Denton every Easter weekend, establishing a summer conference in Portland.

We did that five years ago. It is always the first week of August in Portland. The website is fellowshipconferencenewengland .com. I believe right now, at the present moment,.

The website is being improved. Yes, that's not in operation right now, but people can find it.

They can go to Facebook. Right. It will be up soon, though, but the conference is August 3rd through the 5th. That's Thursday through Saturday, so all are welcome in the greater New England, Canada, New Brunswick area, and as far south as New York State, New York City, all the way up.

A wonderful time. Fellowship, good preaching and teaching. It's gospel-centered, and we usually have a lunch for the ladies one day. Pastors, and the registration cost is minimal. I think it's $20 to $30.

It's very affordable, and we really welcome anyone who would like to visit Portland to join us. You would also be able to see some of the main coast if you could combine it with some sightseeing. It's a marvelous time.

And I think that in one of your recent fellowship conference New England events, you had at least one of my Iron Trump and Zion listeners attend that. Did you not?

I think that's right. That's true, and so we welcome all. If you're listening to Iron Trump and make that summer conference in Portland genuine, we welcome you to come.

In fact, until your website is brought up, you can go to facebook .com forward slash fellowship New England forward slash. That's facebook .com forward slash fellowship New England forward slash. And fellowship New England is all one word, all lowercase, and you can get information on there as well.

And who is speaking at the conference other than.

Yourself? Well, some are yet to be announced, but Jesse Barrington from Grace left in there twice, and he's a great blessing all self. I think the conference and speaking once Don Curran Northwest. He's also work body.

That's where Paul Washer is direct is director of that. Yes, Paul Washers work hard. Don Curran is the U .S. director of heart and Don is a wonderful preacher. He will be there this year as well. And so also the tentative possibility of Nathan Pickowitz nearby Portland in New Hampshire.

He has written, by the way, a small good book on revival in New England and the need for it today. A faithful brother. Well, let him know. I'd love to interview him. Yeah, he likely would. Some are yet to be determined,.

But it will be a good lineup. I wonder if I don't know if you are aware of this. Grace Life Church in Lake City, Florida, has a radio station that is now airing Iron Sharpens Iron every day. And I wonder if there's any connection with the Grace Life Church that you mentioned in Texas.

I do not know, Chris, at all. Okay, I'll have to ask Pastor. I'll ask.

Pastor Brandon Ellickson of Grace Life Church in Lake City, Florida, if there is a connection. Yeah, because I know I think there is some kind of an affiliation with other Grace Life Churches, churches of that name that are reformed Baptist churches.

Well, I am hopefully going to attend that, God willing, if I can work that out in my schedule and budget. So I will keep you updated on that, Pastor. And this subject of death is something that is not pleasant to think of and talk about, but it's a reality, one of the most vividly tangible and important realities that we all have to face.

We have to face it in our own lives. Some of us are facing it in more real ways than others because some of us are aware that we are either very elderly or have some kind of a terminal illness or fatal injury that we have not yet succumbed to.

And this is a pressing issue. And obviously, the young who think naively that they're going to live forever or at least behave that way may not take this issue as seriously as the older folks like you and I do, but they should take it seriously because even they, in the prime of their health and youth and strength and vitality, could be snuffed out in a moment, in a second, in a twinkling of an eye with an automobile turning the wrong way or any of a number of other things that could happen.

In fact, I'm going to use a question that was asked of my first guest from someone in our audience. I'll ask you the same question, but narrow the focus on to the subject of death. We have a listener originally from the Philippines who now lives in Annapolis, North Carolina.

His question, his name is Casey. And Casey's question, I have to enlarge his font because it's microscopic and I can barely read it. Casey's question for our first guest, which I think is applicable to you, is what are some mistakes and apologetics that Christians make regarding the topic of death?