April 8, 2019 Show with Chad Vegas on “The Vital Role of the Holy Spirit in the Salvation of Sinners”

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Live from the historic parsonage of the 19th century gospel minister George Norcross in downtown

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Carlisle, Pennsylvania It's iron sharpens iron This is a radio platform in which pastors

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Christian scholars and theologians Address the burning issues facing the church and the world today

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Proverbs chapter 27 verse 17 tells us iron sharpens iron so one man sharpens another

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Matthew Henry said that in this passage We are cautioned to take heed with whom we converse and directed to have in view in conversation

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To make one another wiser and better It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next two hours

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And we hope to hear from you the listener with your own questions, and now here's your host

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Chris Arnzen Afternoon Cumberland County, Pennsylvania Lake City, Florida and the rest of humanity living on the planet earth who are listening via live streaming at iron

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Sharpens iron radio .com. This is Chris Arnzen your host of iron sharpens iron radio wishing you all a happy Monday on this 8th day of April 2019 and I am thrilled to have on for the first time a man if I could change my name

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To any name on the planet earth it would be Chad Vegas because I think it's the coolest name that has ever been given to a child born of woman and This is a name that could easily be a private detective name in a movie but Chad is the founding pastor of Sovereign Grace Church of Bakersfield, California and He's going to be speaking at the upcoming

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East Coast ministers conference being conducted by the banner of truth here in Elizabethtown Pennsylvania and that's going to be on the theme

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I believe in the Holy Spirit and today we are going to be speaking on the vital role of the

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Holy Spirit in the salvation Of sinners, it's my honor and privilege to welcome you for the very first time ever to iron sharpens iron radio

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Chad Vegas Hi, how are you Chris? I'm doing great Chad and let me give our email address out

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Immediately for those of our listeners who want to join us on the air with a question for you in regard to the vital role of the

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Holy Spirit in the salvation of sinners and of course since you're a pastor we're going to extend and broaden that for our audience if they want to ask you a question on any theological issue

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They can do that at Chris Arnzen at gmail .com chris arn

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Zen at gmail .com and as always, please give us your first name At least your city and state of residence and your country of residence if you live outside the

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USA Please only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter First of all

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Chad if you could let us know about the Sovereign Grace Church of Bakersfield, California Yeah, so Sovereign Grace is a church not not associated with Sovereign Grace Ministries I think you guys are familiar with on the

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East Coast, but we're not familiar with not not as familiar without here But we're we're a reformed

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Baptist Church Our elders and deacons confessed the second London Baptist Confession 1689 we we planted the church in 2007 it was actually

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Sunday January 21st 2007 was our first Sunday started gathering some people in September of 06

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To plant this church here in Bakersfield, which is my hometown where I was born and raised I had been a pastor and Sophia pastor at a large really was an evangelical megachurch and my

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Theology shifted in a reformed direction, and I didn't really want to cause issues there and at the same time the city

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I Was pastoring in was growing quite quickly in fact in the decade of 2000 2010 was the fastest -growing city in California I think we grew in that ten year span by 101 ,000 people and so I thought it's a great opportunity to plant a church

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So we did I have a church has been up and going ever since praise God now

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I'm not a numbers person who? Attaches value to any particular congregation according to the number of people that they have there because you could have

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One of the most biblically faithful churches in any given area That's small numerically because of the fact that they're teaching the truth and and I'm popular, but that's not always the case

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I have modern -day heroes like John MacArthur And others who have very large congregations at least they're very large for Reformed Baptists and Calvinists and so tell us about the difference that you

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Have experienced going from pastoring a megachurch to Sovereign Grace Church of Bakersfield, California Well, I mean the initial difference was dramatic obviously because when we first started the church there were seven of us

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You know so we went from a church Where I was one of 12 pastors, so there were more pastors on the staff than were people in my original church

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And even when we gathered our initial core group at 30 our our church staff the church

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I was at was larger than that was you know somewhere in the 40 region So that was dramatically different Just right off the cuff,

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I mean there were 3 ,500 people or so in that church, but But just as far as what it was like it was it was a lot more lonely initially

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Maybe I was a part of but but as far as just just as a pastor. I was on my own and But it was it was an incredible time.

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I think for us the big difference was trying to understand and work through If you will being a church in Reformation, we saw a lot of people get saved and baptized

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Over the years which we're thankful for we've seen a lot of people Move in a more reformed direction so they were before it more broadly evangelical they've moved in a more reformed direction

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We've seen both of those things happen with for which we thank the Lord, but I think the biggest learning curve for us and Difference for us has been trying to understand

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What it means to go from being kind of a broad evangelical to now How does it show up in the shape of ministry and pastoral ministry in the church to now be this confessionally reformed guy?

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Right. That's a big shift. Oh, yeah, and I did I mean, I believe if you will if the church

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I was at before I believed in in the doctrines of grace But I wasn't confessional and I had no idea

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How those doctrines of grace really connected with the kind of ministry I was to be doing I mean,

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I would believe in the doctrines of grace and and Helping a church promote purpose -driven ministry, and I didn't recognize the disconnect for a long time

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You know what I did is when I when I left in part to plant this church

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And and so just learning how to work out. What is pastoral ministry actually look like biblically?

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as Opposed to sort of what I thought it was in the context of a kind of speaker sensitive purpose -driven sort of church

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Yeah, I am continually baffled by some friends and brothers who are fellow reformed

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Christians Who seem to still for some reason be enamored with Rick Warren and I have to remind them

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Do you realize that he calls Pope Francis his Pope? This kind of a strange strange kind of a phenomenon

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But I'm sure that not every single thing that Rick Warren says is false but to be enthusiastic about the direction he is going is is strange for me when someone is already enlightened

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By the Reformed Faith, so that's what makes it even more strange But what we what we typically do on Iron Trip and Zion Radio when we have a first -time guest such as you

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Is we have them give a summary of their salvation testimony Including the kind of religious atmosphere you were raised in if any and what providential

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Circumstances our Lord raised up in your life that drew you to himself and saved you Yeah, well, so I was not raised in a

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Christian home my My father was a police officer

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He had been in Vietnam and a drill sergeant in the army, etc Then he'd become a police officer in our local police department.

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My mom was a hairdresser And like I said, I was born and raised here in Bakersfield in this town

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They were not believers in any way shape or form we we didn't even go to church on Christmas and Easter, right

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So I was there was no Christian background at all When I was six years old about nine days before it was actually nine days before I turned seven my father was killed in the line of duty and At that point you know a lot of questions started in my mind about what happens after death and and What what's this all about?

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Even as a little as a little kid. I didn't fully understand it, obviously and walking through that my mom started dating and Life went on for for some time there.

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We actually got a bit Especially me. We got caught up a bit with a neighbor down the street who was very much

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Into the new into new age kind of a sort of a new age priest was big into astrology

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So I was reading a lot of those kinds of books At the time and my mom was dating another man

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Who was just a great guy when I was in fifth grade who we were excited About she was planning to marry him.

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They were going to get married and then he got killed Wow, and yeah, and that was a

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Kind of second dramatic situation in which I wondered what what you know, who's

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God what's going on? I mean I had heard of Christianity because of things like Little House on the

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Prairie, or you know what I'm saying? Like I'm American television in the 80s if you will I I had heard of that kind of stuff.

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We're in my my public school singing Christmas carols like that sort of stuff, but But that's about all the exposure

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I had after this man's name was Rick after Rick got killed My neighbor the priestess basically told us that my mom had

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Killed people in her former life and this was karma coming around again Wow Yeah, and that I mean

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I was going to sixth grade and I realized at that point You know, I it sounds like a strange thing to think about a sixth grader

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But I thought man, you know, I do I wouldn't put it in this language But essentially worldviews have consequences and and that's a terrible worldview, right?

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And so the terrible understanding of things so I was looking for something else at that point a friend invited me to a

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Baptist Church I heard something maybe that roughly approximated the gospel Well Roughly about it.

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What I heard was if you don't want to go to hell, but you want to go to heaven You got to believe in Jesus. So come down the aisle.

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So I was like, okay Well, I don't want to go to hell. So I went down this guy prayed with me. I started saying at that point

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I started professing. Yeah, I believe in Jesus But then they never took me back to church.

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So through junior high and high school I just started looking around. I So I went over there a little bit and the fat went to the

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Roman Catholic Church in my neighborhood Check that out Went one of my other close friends

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Jehovah's Witness went and checked that out I just I didn't I just knew actually what was interesting is when

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I went to the Mormon Church and the Jehovah's Witness Church So I knew nothing about them The Lord Kindly graciously made it very clear to me.

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Hey, these are cults. This is bizarre. So I didn't go I didn't keep that up and In high school,

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I found a church youth group that I started going to on my own and some kids They're actually a junior in high school.

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I didn't have a ride I was a freshman this junior in high school came up to me and he started offering me rides

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He actually went about 20 minutes out of his way each direction Every Sunday morning Sunday night and Wednesday night to bring me to church

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It you know, it's just a high school kid And so I was coming hearing some of the word and then it was in college where I I I really went

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I went off to a Christian college and met my The woman who became my wife and another friend and they they pressed on me, especially this other friend pressed on me about Are you gonna follow

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Christ or not? Like, you know, so I started Say following Christ sincerely

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Probably when I was 18 years old in freshman year college and how and when did you discover the doctrines of sovereign grace because obviously you

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You had said earlier that even when you were pastoring the megachurch Even though you weren't being logically consistent with the doctrines of grace you had already embraced them.

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So tell us about that Yeah, yeah, so I was attending this church, but I that I am this megachurch

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I ended up becoming a pastor out at the time I was attending it wasn't a megachurch at that time But I was attending it in my early 20s right after I graduated college my wife and I were going there

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I was teaching high school at the time At a public high school and I was helping with the

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Bible Club and one of the high school kids in the Bible Club Came to me and asked me some questions about the

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Bible He said he had gone to a church and it was some kind of a word of faith sort of service

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And there was all the you know laughing spirit and being slain the spirit, etc. He came and asked me he said

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Oh, mr. Vegas. What do you what do you think about that? And I said, oh, I don't think that's biblical. That's not good

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He said why not? I said, I don't I just don't sound right. He said, can you show me the

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Bible and I told him? Yeah, I don't know that I can and he actually looked at me

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I remember that 16 year old kid looked at me right out of the eyes and said You're gonna hold yourself up as a

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Christian teacher on this campus. Don't you think you ought to know more about your faith? and I Looked at him and I said, yeah,

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I think I should so we you have any ideas for me, you know And he said why don't you ask your church?

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And I said, well, that's not been super helpful this far thus far So but on that Sunday, I went to church and they had a thing in the bulletin about a conference and there's the college group was going to a

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Bible conference and It sounded like a disease to me at the time when

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I read it because I'd never heard of it I didn't know what it was, but it said Bible conference. I thought I'd go and it was a Ligonier conference and So I said, oh

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I'll go to that so I went to the Bible conference at the college group the Ligonier conference And it was actually at John MacArthur's Church With double whammy double whammy

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Had Donna John MacArthur Sinclair Ferguson RC stroll Jerry Bridges. These were the guys preaching

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Yep, and I remember sitting there in the pew thinking why haven't I been told this my whole life right and I'm being sort of captured by it.

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I Actually met Sinclair Ferguson on one occasion and told him that when he was preaching on the love of God at that conference

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That was actually in the fall of 1998. He preached on the love of God. I had a second baptism of the Holy Spirit.

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So anyway, I Suddenly My heart burned within me and I walked out to the bookstore and I bought every book that they had available

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And I went over to these seminary booths. I didn't know what a seminary was I walked up and asked them what the seminary says the place where pastors get trained

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I said, I don't want to be a pastor, but I'd like to learn the Bible can I come and they said yes, so I applied to a seminary and Ended up going to seminary and then a year later the church

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I was at said hey you got some training why don't you come on here and so I did and started serving with them and preaching and serving various ways an associate pastor and then eventually

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As you know things sort of settled down. I now believe these doctrines are great, but I'm at this church I think they go together and I was one of these guys who thought my doctrine is here, but but method is neutral and I Didn't realize at the time that method is really determined by what you believe about who

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God is and how he works and who man is and what his need is etc and So at some point

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I came to that realization and planted a church praise God and You are going to be speaking at the conference that we mentioned before the

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East Coast ministers conference for the banner of truth and I just really love this conference and as you told me before the show started

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This is your first time not only speaking at one But your first time attending a banner of truth conference and tell us something about what you will be addressing underneath The heading of I believe in the

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Holy Spirit. What would be the the sub topic if you will Underneath that that heading that you will be addressed.

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Well, you're you're gonna laugh because I feel um, I I Find the question a little bit humorous because I'm not entirely certain yet And the reason is so I You know,

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I'm also speaking at the West Coast conference and Ian Hamilton Asked, you know FaceTime with me about the

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West Coast conference said I need two topics from you I want them to be on the new covenant ministry of the Holy Spirit I'd like you to focus, you know, think about these things

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And so I I have titles for those messages And they're those titles and texts and I know where I'm going with those messages, but the

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East Coast conference I said, what do you want me to do? He he he said here are the titles that everybody else is doing you just you just preach the closing sermon

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Okay, but is there a topic? No, just do a pastoral exposition of some text. Oh, okay

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I Know it needs to be on the Holy Spirit and I know it needs to be a pastoral exposition of a text

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At this point. I haven't landed entirely on what text that will be

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I have a couple of ideas bouncing around as far as I've got a few texts. I'm studying for that end

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I also recognize I'm but you know I'm one of the the guys who's not coming in with a with a

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Scottish brogue who quotes Owen as if we were roommates I Want to you know,

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I want to be mindful of studying the text. Well, and but my hope is just to encourage these brothers there in In the the power of the

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Holy Spirit to work through the ordinary means of grace the pastor to trust

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The head of the church with his people And and and not to Not to think that we somehow by our efforts can can gin up Can gin up some sort of results that we hope to see?

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You know, and so I have a few passages I'm looking at And and just I'm just wanting to encourage

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The pastors and elders and deacons cetera who were there To look to Christ the trust of the power of the

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Holy Spirit through his word. Amen So that's that's my goal

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But I don't know Yet where the Lord will providentially guide me as far as the text.

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I'm going to pause and I have like I said I have a few ideas Well, I am looking forward to it and I will be

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Addressing this or announcing that this information later But I just want to make sure that I do so for those of our listeners who may have to leave listening early the banner of truth

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East Coast ministers conference is going to be held May 28th through the 30th and that's going to be in Elizabethtown, Pennsylvania at the

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Elizabethtown College and just so you know that May 28th through the 30th is a

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Tuesday Wednesday and Thursday and The theme is as I just mentioned I believe in the

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Holy Spirit The speakers include Chad Vegas who I am interviewing right now Jeff Kingswood who is going to be my guest

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God willing on Tuesday the 23rd of April looking forward to interviewing Jeff for the first time and I have really been blessed by his preaching not only at the banner of truth

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Conference but also at the church where I am a member Grace Baptist Church where he has visited and preached

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Terry Johnson Is also going to be an upcoming guest on iron sharpens iron radio on the 6th of May God willing

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David Vaughn who is a Reformed Baptist missionary in France Stephen J Nichols who is the president of the college founded by RC Sproul and Ligonier Ministries Reformation Bible College Michael Morales and As I said

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Chad Vegas, so please if you want to register for this conference the East Coast ministers conference

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May 28th through the 30th go to banner of truth org banner of truth

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Or click on events and then click on East Coast ministers conference we do have a

22:17

Question from Arnie in Perry County, Pennsylvania and Arnie Wants to know is there words of advice you could give not only to pastors but Christians in general

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Who put too much emphasis on the importance of the size of a congregation where they are either?

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Shepherding or where they are a member. It seems to be a preoccupation on the minds of many

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Christians they don't think a church is valuable unless it is humongous in size and I'm not saying anything bad against the megachurches, but they are easier to get lost in They are easier to avoid church discipline and they tend to be less authentic and sound in their theology

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Which is why they attract a large crowd because it seems that the truth is so unpopular today

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Can you please give any words of counsel or advice to our listeners? Yeah Well, I think he he loads some of the answer to his own question in the question,

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I mean obviously It's not it's not that the Lord is not concerned with with saving and building up people and he doesn't count them or know them himself, but it isn't really our responsibility to know the number of his elect nor to To figure out how many ought to be gathered in our local congregation.

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I mean at this point it's it's I think as a pastor Our calling is really clear.

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It's really It's really well laid out in Scripture preach the word and season out of season, you know, pray for the saints care for them shepherding the flock of God among us visiting your people these sorts of things

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Aren't attached to numbers They're not attached to whether your churches and we know we able to afford to pay you by vocationally or vocation or you know

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Or full -time. They're not attached to How well you're known? What people think of you as far as you know, whether you're relatively popular as a pastor or not

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For me the big change one of the texts that really shifted my understanding of pastoral ministry

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Particularly while I was at a megachurch was sort of the fear of God with regard to a passage like Hebrews 13 17 where it says about obey your leaders submit to them for they are keeping watch over your souls as those will have to give an account and I remember asking our elders

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How are we going to account for the couple thousand people? We don't even know Main I see them in the grocery store and they say hi pastor

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And I've never I have no idea who they are and I'm just giving account for their souls Have I have

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I given much thought to? to Needing to know the sheep whom

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Christ has entrusted to my care And and what does that look like for me in pastoral ministry?

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I'm not suggesting for example I want to be careful here that someone like John MacArthur whose churches 10 ,000 people or whatever it is is therefore

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Unfaithful because can't name all 10 ,000 people. I Imagine he has a group of elders and under shepherds

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Who serve alongside of him who who do know all of those folks or at least

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I hope that's the case But personally, I'm not even interested anymore in being involved in a megachurch

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Just because I want to know and care for and pray for and visit and The people that whom

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Christ has entrusted to my care I want to be able to give an account for them Amen I had to chuckle when

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I was interviewing Phil Johnson Who's a friend of mine? And in fact, he is the most frequently

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Interviewed guest in iron sharpens iron radio the executive director of grace to you John MacArthur's media ministry

26:22

But I had to chuckle when I was interviewing him because he was telling me that he runs a

26:29

Bible study at grace Community Church in Sun Valley, California Which is sort of like a church within a church and he said we're sort of like a small church of about 500 people

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Said reformed Baptist would think that is a megachurch Phil. I mean just to give you some perspective on reformed that Yeah Yeah, that's probably generally true.

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I mean he's that look I think they're fellowship inside the church of something called grace life,

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I think Yeah, and they have pastors and elders in that and then

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I think they even have small groups and all the whole thing off Of that that are associated with that one group. I Know that's what they do.

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They've essentially accommodated or the size of that church by having these kind of almost

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Sub churches within it So, you know and by the way,

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I guess I'm sorry, I said God bless them I'm I'm not particularly interested in all of that kind of administration

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I just rather care for the people and know them and you know, so anyway, that's Amen, and by the way folks pray because Phil is working on Having John MacArthur return to orange represents on radio for his second interview on this broadcast

27:51

And so please pray that that comes to fruition and I hope it comes to fruition soon

27:56

I've been eager to have John back on the show. It's been a long time and I am really waiting with bated breath to hear good news from Phil We're gonna go to our first break right now

28:09

If you'd like to join us on the air with a question for our guest today

28:14

Chad Vegas Primarily on the vital role of the Holy Spirit and the salvation of sinners, but you may ask on other questions ask other questions involving

28:23

Christian theology and pastoral issues Please send your emails to Chris Arnzen at gmail .com

28:30

Chris a RN Z and a gmail .com and please give us your first name at least your city and state of residence

28:36

In your country of residence if you live outside the USA only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter and Don't go away.

28:44

We'll be right back with Chad Vegas after these messages Chris Arnzen host of iron sharpens iron radio announcing a new website with an exciting offer from world

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Leading to the Master of Divinity degree. This is IRBS Theological Seminary We believe that the scriptures of the

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That's IRBSSeminary .org, two S's in the middle. I hope to hear from you soon.

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God bless you James White of Alpha Omega Ministries here.

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Welcome back. This is Chris Ornson if you just tuned us in our guests today for the full two hours with a little less than 90 minutes to go is

37:41

Chad Vegas founding pastor of the Sovereign Grace Church of Bakersfield, California We are discussing the vital role of the

37:49

Holy Spirit in the salvation of sinners And we're also promoting the East Coast ministers conference of the banner of truth where our guest

37:58

Chad is going to be speaking on the roster of other speakers and That is going to be held

38:03

Tuesday the 28th of May through Thursday the 30th In Elizabethtown, Pennsylvania at the

38:10

Elizabethtown College for more details go to banner of truth org banner of truth org

38:16

We have a listener who has a question that is somewhat off topic but we will take it since our guest is a pastor and It is a pastoral question for certain

38:28

We have David in Ada, Ohio It says we are having an upcoming Bible study about the death of infants and where did they go?

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We know they are under the curse Because they have died But do the scriptures give any indication as to where the infants who die in infancy go?

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Thank you, and God bless. This is a very controversial subject that is sure to get some people upset no matter how you answer it and In fact as you know,

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Chad there are Reformed Brothers who disagree on This question even though they may be in lockstep in most other theological areas

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But if you could give us your view on this You know, I mean that that is a tough question

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I I'm not I I'm not sure that I'm the best guy to make a great scriptural argument for it because I cannot say that I've ever done a kind of intensive biblical

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Study on that particular topic. I I know that there are things that we can say

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Certainly every infant who is You know conceived is is conceived in sin has

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Original corruption and guilt in that sense and so I would say justly could be condemned

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Yet, we don't you know, we see examples of texts for example when David is praying for his son or praying the

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Lord about his son who has died and He he seems to be seems to be quite certain he's going to see that son who died an infancy in Heaven in some way though.

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The text is disputed. I know It it looks as if there's some way in which

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God has saved that infant Obviously when we consider a text like Which is extraordinary, so I don't want to make a big theological case out of it

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But a text like John the Baptist seems to be regenerate even in the womb Obviously, we know that that's a possibility that the

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London Baptist Confession Sums up what they think scripture is teaching this way

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They say elect infants. This is in chapter 10 paragraph 3 elect infant dying in infancy are

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Regenerated and saved by Christ through the Spirit who works when and where and how he pleases

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So also, so also are all other elect persons who are incapable of being outwardly called by the ministry of the word

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So this would be a kind of extraordinary Circumstance in the sense that the elect are ordinarily called by the ministry of the word

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But while we all will all agree that the elect are ordinarily called by the ministry of the word

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Regenerated and given the gift of faith in Christ That's what ordinarily happens when we come to the case of those who are

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Extremely mentally handicapped or who die in infancy, etc We tend to talk about the

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Holy Spirit Sovereign will to to work how he pleases of that and and we would be talking about him working in an extraordinary way to save that infant or that Very mentally handicapped sort of person who is an elect person dying in infancy

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That's that's how we sum that up. That's I you know what my church confesses that I'm Confessionally bound to hold to that and teach that but by the grace of God We haven't had

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I haven't had to do a lot of infant funerals thankfully Very young congregation and and with modern medicine haven't had to do a lot

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I haven't had to wrestle with topics all that much So I would I would claim some ignorance as to the ability to give great flesh to that biblically

42:33

That's an excellent question David. Thank you for sending it in and just to throw my two cents in there most reformed people that I have discussed this with whom

42:45

I have discussed this issue have claimed to take an agnostic position not the

42:52

The denial of the existence of God or the doubting or so on But on this issue they claim that the

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Bible doesn't give sufficient Information for us to know with certainty What happens to children after they perish other than the elect?

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The children who are the elected but I can tell you even though most reformed people I discussed this with Claim to be agnostics on it.

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I can say that A man that we just mentioned one of my modern -day heroes John MacArthur Believes all children who die in infancy would not have died in infancy

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Unless they were or are of the elect that God only permits children to die in infancy who are the elect and they will certainly be in heaven

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Charles Spurgeon also believe that and I know Al Mohler believes that and I'm sure that there are many others but I can give you at least those names who are very prominent figures in in Christendom, especially within Calvinistic circles

43:54

But thanks David. Keep listening and keep spreading the word about iron chirping's iron radio in Ada, Ohio and beyond Well, let's go into our main theme right now brother where Let me just start off by saying it has been

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Falsely claimed by especially if you want to Bring up the the primary

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Individuals who falsely claim that Calvinists are dead in the spirit devoid of the spirit have a low view of the

44:27

Holy Spirit They would be the Charismatics and Pentecostals, although there are some who are reformed within that group of people or those groups

44:37

Especially today in the 21st century where that was almost unheard of for nearly a hundred years

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But I Believe and I've always responded to my charismatic and Pentecostal friends when they make such a statement

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I tell them I believe that Calvinists have a more Important and highly exalted view of the

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Holy Spirit than they do because we believe that sinners can't even believe without the

45:07

Holy Spirit first regenerating us we believe that There is a more important role that the

45:14

Holy Spirit the third person of the Godhead has than they do But if you could respond to what I just said and add anything that you care to mention

45:22

Well, I mean historically that that kind of argument is problematic I mean

45:27

BB Warfield refers to Calvin as a theologian of the Holy Spirit if you read Calvin Institute, it is just It is just filled with Discussions about the

45:41

Holy Spirit When you you know, oh and third volume in his in his set the banner of truth publishes is 500 pages on the doctrine of the

45:53

Holy Spirit and they're quite detailed pages of that It is not the case that that the reformed in some way

46:03

Don't have a robust doctrine Holy Spirit. In fact, I would I would concur with you I think that the reformed have a far more robust Understanding of the

46:14

Holy Spirit than what you find in in most charismatic circles They're fooling about with things

46:23

Like Manifestations of the Holy Spirit or at least professed manifestations of the

46:29

Holy Spirit Things that they would might consider warm feelings or experiences

46:37

That are all a bit of a sideshow From the primary mission of the

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Holy Spirit The reformed historically, you know, we don't we we would put things like the doctrine of soteriology or the doctrine of salvation

46:50

Under the the work of the Holy Spirit In fact from the Heidelberg Catechism when we say what does what does thou believe concerning the

46:59

Holy Ghost the Holy Spirit? First that is true any co -eternal God with the

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Father and the Son Secondly that he is also given me to make me by a true faith partaker of Christ and all his benefits

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That he may comfort me and abide with me forever so the way in which we talk about the

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Father as creator and the Son as Redeemer and the Holy Spirit of sanctifier is This sense in which we have one

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God we distinguish Their their work that is all all their work is undivided and one but we distinguish it

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By eminently attributing it to a particular person and we say the Holy Spirit primary work

47:37

The reason he sent is to make much of Jesus Christ to give us faith to Unite us to Christ through faith and and that means he has to regenerate our heart and you know, give us life and And then he works powerfully enough to assist us to grow in grace so that we become

48:00

Conformed more and more into the image of Christ by the Lord who is the Spirit, right? This is the whole of our lives as Christians is

48:10

Is a life in which we see that the Father has decreed and loved to send the Son The Son has come and purchased grace

48:18

For us at the cross and the Holy Spirit is the one who's come to assist us to fellowship with us

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So that we might know Christ and all of his benefits. So our whole life is a life in the

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Spirit We don't even know the Christian life apart from the Holy Spirit So it's not that we're looking for the

48:39

Holy Spirit to show up for a sideshow Or an experience or to do some little

48:45

Miraculous deed that that that we're hoping for it's that it's that we don't even think about life and breath

48:54

And our regeneration and Everything without the Holy Spirit.

49:00

It's all him. He is carrying all things to their proper end Amen, and it's amazing how often

49:08

I have heard when I've had friends visit a Congregation where I've been a member or are a member

49:17

Or am a member grammatically, correct Yeah, the where if they are from a charismatic or Pentecostal background, and by the way,

49:25

I'm not slamming Pentecostalism or charismatic Brothers and sisters.

49:30

I'm just saying that there these things are true that that even they I think will very readily admit they will even make the accusation that That the church that they are visiting if it is reformed is

49:44

Devoid of the Holy Spirit or dead for very shallow Reasons just because they don't see people jumping up and down just because they hear people singing from a traditional hymnal

49:57

And and on the flip side of that coin though We who are reformed have very often been guilty of looking like we are bored to death when we are worshiping and that Should not be true.

50:09

Well, we have the least excuse to behave that way But if you just could comment quickly on what

50:15

I just said there Yeah. Yeah. I mean here. Here's the thing, right? I I have told and I I was

50:21

I was once in a more charismatic camp years ago and I have told folks a time and again that the gifts of the

50:29

Holy Spirit are for the purpose of If you will working in us the fruit of the Holy Spirit So that we together as a body become mature in Christ So if you want to judge the work of the

50:40

Holy Spirit in the congregation Maybe you ought to maybe you ought to assess the fruit of godliness there rather than assessing what looks like some kind of revivalistic experience whether they jump up and down and shout and look excited because people can jump up and down and shout and look excited and And walk out of the sanctuary and live lives of relative ungodliness

51:03

Right so I and and correspondingly you could walk into a congregation of elderly saints who are singing from an old hymnal and and Look, not too excited about the

51:15

Lord, but man, they are constantly in prayer walking godliness suffering well looking to Christ as a reward, you know

51:28

If you will they are on the path of celestial city and in an almost undistracted way

51:34

And how do you look at that and say the Holy Spirit's not at work among them? But the people shouting and jumping around he is that's just not how we're were to assess that kind of thing

51:43

I'd also say we have to come back to something like John 16 when the spirit of truth comes He will guide you into all the truth

51:49

We will not speak on his own authority But whatever he hears he will speak and with the clarity the things are to come

51:54

He will glorify me for he will take what is mine and declare it to you And in other words

51:59

Holy Spirit's coming to he's coming to tell you about Jesus to glorify

52:04

Jesus So I'm gonna walk into a worship service and assess whether the Holy Spirit Is that work there based on the fact that is

52:13

Christ being exalted here? Is he being looked to his his word being trusted?

52:19

Or Or are they or are they trusting in other things? Amen We have to go to our

52:25

Midway station break right now This is the longer than normal break because grace life radio 90 .1

52:31

FM in Lake City, Florida who airs this program twice a day in a re in a pre -recorded

52:37

Format they require this middle break to air their own Lake City, Florida area commercials and public service announcements to localize

52:45

Iron Trip and Zion radio to Lake City, Florida So please be patient with us as we take this longer than normal break and while they air their commercials we will be airing our globally heard commercials and Please write down the information provided by our advertisers because you will be more

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Able to successfully and more frequently patronize them when you write down the information they provide and we need our advertisers to exist

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So therefore the more frequently you patronize them the more likely they will remain our advertisers and the more likely

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We will be able to stick around Also write down questions For our guests today

53:20

Chad Vegas at Chris Arnzen at gmail .com Chris Arnzen at gmail .com

53:27

Chris a RNZ and a gmail .com and I'll read a question for you

53:32

Chad and you could answer it when we return Susan Margaret in Dauphin County, Pennsylvania Asks the very famous verse in the

53:40

Bible in Matthew 22 verse 14 says for many are called But few are chosen

53:46

How exactly is the Holy Spirit operating in the lives and the hearts and minds of the unelect if they are being called?

53:53

And yet they are not chosen if you could answer that when we return and we'll be right back

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That's the private story I'm dr.

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Gary Kimbrell pastor Bethlehem Baptist Church in Laurel, Mississippi God tells us in James 1 27 that pure and undefiled religion is a visit the fatherless and widows and their affliction and the providence of God three years ago.

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I discovered a poor small church outside Lusaka, Zambia in a township called Cabanana who are taking care of 24 orphans

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I found them just at the time when they had lost all their funding. What was I to do? Could I just say God bless you and walk away?

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The situation of the children said heavily upon me as I was praying concerning this need it came to me I trust from the

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Lord to tell the orphans plight to a broader audience the entire need for their clothing food Education and some medical services is $73 per month per child if just 50 of us would give $35 a month we could meet the need

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Bethlehem Baptist Church will pay the fee to get the funds there So if you give a dollar a dollar will get to the orphans in this season of hope and giving will you consider giving hope?

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to 24 orphans Please send your gift of any amount to Bethlehem Baptist Church 838

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Reed Road, Laurel, Mississippi 39443 or donate through our website

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BBC Laurel calm again The address is Bethlehem Baptist Church 838

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Reed Road, Laurel, Mississippi 39443 or BBC Laurel calm.

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Thank you. Hi. I'm Stephan Lindblad assistant professor of systematic theology at IRB s theological seminary in Mansfield, Texas I Accepted this call to teach at the seminary because I'm firmly convinced that the people of God in The churches of our

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01:05:28

Welcome back. This is Chris Arnzen. If you just tuned us in our guest today is

01:05:33

Chad Vegas pastor of Sovereign Grace Church of Bakersfield, California We're discussing the vital role of the

01:05:39

Holy Spirit and the salvation of sinners and we're also Promoting the East Coast ministers conference of the banner of truth

01:05:46

Which is coming up May 28th through the 30th in Elizabethtown, Pennsylvania Before I return to our discussion with Chad, I just have some special announcements to make regarding Upcoming events that I hope that you will all attend if at all possible first of all our friends at the

01:06:05

Covenant Protestant Reformed Church in Ballymena, Northern Ireland are having a Conference on the theme the original five points of Calvinism to celebrate the 400th anniversary of the canons of Dort This is being held

01:06:18

Saturday April 13th Wednesday April 17th Wednesday May 1st in Ballymena, Northern Ireland I know that we do have listeners in Northern Ireland and the

01:06:29

Republic of Ireland and also in the United Kingdom in England and Wales and so on so I hope that all of you who are able to attend this conference

01:06:39

Can make it there? That is April 13th 17th and May 1st at the

01:06:46

Covenant Protestant Reformed Church of Ballymena, Northern Ireland For more details go to CPRF .co

01:06:53

.uk That's CP standing for Covenant Protestant RF standing for Reformed Fellowship .co

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.uk Then coming up Not long after that we have from April 25th through the 27th that's

01:07:13

Thursday Friday and Saturday April 25th 26th and 27th the Dort 400 conference is being held at the

01:07:21

Trinity Protestant Reformed Church in Let's see it is in Hudsonville, Michigan and the speakers include

01:07:30

Professor Ronald Kamenga Professor Barrett Gritters Reverend Brian Huizinga Professor Doug Kuyper Reverend Bill Wannarek Reverend Mark Shand and Reverend Angus Stewart.

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They will all be speaking on the theme of the Synod of Dort and the Canons of Dort in celebration of the 400th anniversary of this very important Synod in the history of Christendom and especially the

01:07:59

Reformed faith If you want more details on registering for this free conference go to Dort 400 .org

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and that's spelt D as in David O R D as in David T 400 .org remember there are two

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D's in Dort D O R D as in David T and Then I am having

01:08:21

God willing the spring iron sharpens iron radio Pastors luncheon a free luncheon to all men in ministry leadership featuring.

01:08:30

Dr Tony Costa a fellow Reformed Baptist who is professor of apologetics and Islam at Toronto Baptist Seminary Dr.

01:08:38

Costa is going to be speaking on the theme How the Dead Sea Scrolls vindicate the reliability of the scriptures.

01:08:46

That's Thursday May 23rd from 11 a .m. To 2 p .m

01:08:51

At the that the Carlisle fire and rescue banquet hall right here in Carlisle, Pennsylvania Any man in ministry leadership whether you are a pastor or an elder and I think that those are the same office by the way deacon a parachurch leader any man in ministry leadership is

01:09:08

Invited for free as long as you register beforehand and you will not only get to hear dr

01:09:14

Costa for free who and he is a brilliant man, by the way You've got to hear him if you have not heard him, but you also get free lunch and you will get

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Dozens of free books brand new books donated by nearly every major Christian publisher in the

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United States in the United Kingdom every man there leaves with a heavy sack of Brand new books that I've selected from these publishers who have graciously been donating these books for over a decade

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Actually going on two decades now It's a really remarkable the way that God has blessed this

01:09:50

Free pastor's luncheon that began with my late wife in the early 1990s whose brainchild this free luncheon is or was and We look forward to seeing you there

01:10:02

Send me an email to Chris Arnson at gmail .com Chris Arnson at gmail .com and put pastors luncheon in the subject line and I will be more than happy to register you to attend and And Dr.

01:10:15

Costa will also be speaking after he leaves, Pennsylvania on the Friday the 24th of May he will be heading to Long Island, New York to speak at several churches

01:10:27

For conferences that I have arranged there and I will be there as well and I'll give you more details on those conferences

01:10:33

God -willing in the very near future then we Have after that After my luncheon we have

01:10:44

The conference that I have been promoting especially today the East Coast ministers conference

01:10:49

I believe in the Holy Spirit May 28th through the 30th in Elizabethtown, Pennsylvania at the

01:10:55

Elizabethtown College This is the East Coast ministers conference of the banner of truth featuring our guests today

01:11:00

Chad Vegas Jeff Kingswood Terry Johnson David Vaughn Stephen J Nichols and Michael Morales If you'd like to register for the banner of truth

01:11:10

East Coast ministers conference May 28th through the 30th Go to banner of truth org banner of truth org click on events and then scroll down to East Coast ministers conference

01:11:20

In fact, they are live -streaming the UK conference Beginning today.

01:11:27

They already began live streaming this conference. So If you want to watch and hear that wait till this show is over and then go to banner of truth org banner of truth

01:11:39

Org and you can watch and hear the live streaming of the UK conference but we hope to see you May 28th through the 30th here in the

01:11:46

United States at the East Coast ministers conference in Elizabethtown, Pennsylvania and God willing.

01:11:51

I will be there. Please look for me I would love to meet you and greet you and have fellowship with you Then finally we have the foundations conference in New York City on December 19th and the 20th

01:12:02

This is a conference of sermon audio .com and it is always a phenomenal event

01:12:07

Very small venue though. So if you want to register I would register today to make sure that you are included

01:12:15

In the registration because they are gonna fill up in no time. I'm sure speakers include.

01:12:21

Dr. Stephen J Lawson who you just heard Moments ago promoting New York's New Covenant Fellowship NYC one of the sponsors of Iron Trip and Zion radio

01:12:33

Paul Washer is on the roster Phenomenal phenomenal preacher and so is

01:12:38

Reverend Jeff Thomas another one of my favorite preachers from Wales Reverend Armin Tomasi, and if you don't know his name now, you will if you are reformed

01:12:46

I believe I'm strongly convinced. He will be a household name amongst reformed Christians over the next decade

01:12:51

Reverend Armin Tomasi and Richard Caldwell jr. And Andrew Quigley neither of whom I have heard preached yet But I'm looking forward to it if you'd like to register for this event the foundations conference in New York City December 19th and 20th go to the foundations conference calm the foundations conference calm

01:13:11

And finally if you love Iron Trip and Zion radio, you don't want us to disappear from the airwaves

01:13:17

You look forward to sharing the free downloadable mp3s with your family friends and loved ones You love to hear the guests and topics that we feature on Iron Trip and Zion that are sometimes never heard anywhere else

01:13:28

Then please go to Iron Trip and Zion radio .com click support then click click to donate now you could donate instantly with a debit or credit card and if you prefer snail mail an address will appear on the screen where you can mail a check made payable to Iron Trip and Zion and We look forward to receiving those checks and those internet donations

01:13:49

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01:14:06

Those two things are commands of the scriptures to provide for your church and home providing for my radio show is not a command of God obviously, but if you are financially blessed above and beyond your ability to obey those two commands

01:14:19

Then please consider donating as frequently as you can and as heavily as you can

01:14:25

Iron Trip and Zion radio .com click support then click click to donate now if indeed you love the show and don't want it to Disappear from the airwaves if you are not a member of a local

01:14:34

Bible believing church, and you're not prayerfully looking for one You're living in rebellion against God So, please send me an email to Chris Arnson at gmail .com

01:14:42

If you need help finding a Bible believing church near you, I have churches of biblically faithful I have lists

01:14:48

I should say of biblically faithful churches all over the world and I've already helped quite a number of people find churches

01:14:54

Near them some of whom have joined those churches others who have attended those churches while on vacation so and others who have

01:15:02

Referred those churches to their family friends and loved ones who live in those areas so, please send me an email to Chris Arnson at gmail .com

01:15:09

if you need help finding a church and put I need a church in The subject line or something similar

01:15:15

If you want to advertise with us on Iron Trip and Zion radio send me an email to at Chris Arnson at gmail .com

01:15:20

Chris Arnson at gmail .com and put advertising in the subject line and We will help you launch an ad campaign as long as whatever you are promoting is compatible with what we believe

01:15:30

You don't have to believe identically with me, but you need to be promoting something Compatible with what we believe here on Iron Trip and Zion radio look forward to receiving your emails if you want to advertise and Chris Arnson at gmail .com

01:15:42

is also the email address to send in a question for Chad Vegas of Sovereign Grace Church in Bakersfield, California on the theme the vital role of the

01:15:51

Holy Spirit and salvation of sinners Chris Arnson at gmail .com Chris Arnson at gmail .com and pastor

01:15:56

Chad as we said before the break We heard from Susan in Dauphin County Susan Margaret that is

01:16:04

Dauphin County, Pennsylvania She wants to know How the

01:16:10

Holy Spirit is operating in the calling of the unelect because in Matthew 22 verse 14

01:16:17

Which is a very famous passage that even unbelievers may be familiar with For many are called but few are chosen.

01:16:24

So how do you explain that? How is how is the unelect being called? Yeah, well,

01:16:31

I think I think we need to understand that parable just to get to that answer because I don't think this is talking here about the spirit calling

01:16:40

What it says for many are called but few are chosen if you understand the nature of what's happening. It's terrible

01:16:46

Jesus speaking. It's the last week of his life And he he compares the kingdom of heaven to a king giving a wedding feast for his son so clearly

01:16:58

He's the son the king is the father giving the wedding feast for the son and then multiple times that word that you see in Verse 14 of Matthew 22 for many are called

01:17:07

That word called is used multiple times actually in this text. It's it's in 14

01:17:14

It's you know, it's either used as the in the adjectival form of the verb kaleo in Greek or it's used as a perfect verb, but it says it says for example in verse 3 and He sent a servant to to call there's that verb to call those who were invited

01:17:32

That's the same word the word invited and then he says in verse 4 to tell those who are invited again the same word and then in verse 8

01:17:40

Then he said to his servants the wedding feast was ready. But those who Those invited were not worthy.

01:17:46

So there are people who are being invited by these servants who are sent out Saying come to the wedding feast of The king's son come to that wedding feast.

01:17:56

There's there are people being invited, but they're not worthy He comes to the wedding feast and the king

01:18:03

Shows up at the wedding feast if you will this parable and assesses the guest and he noticed there's a guest with no wedding garment

01:18:10

And when he sees the guest without the wedding garment in verse 11 in verse 12 He addresses him and says basically how did you get into this wedding?

01:18:19

Feast you aren't worthy to be here because you don't have the wedding garment And so the king has been cast in the outer darkness and he says many are called but few are chosen

01:18:28

Now that we're chosen is actually a different word there. But that the calling there seems referring to this kind of Universal offer of the gospel, you know, we're going out and proclaiming the gospel to every tribe and tongue and nation

01:18:43

We're making them known That you know making it known to them to look to the Sun to trust him to be saved

01:18:51

But unless they have the wedding garment, which I would take their In the sense of like Revelation 19 unless they're clothed with Christ's righteousness

01:19:01

They're not worthy to come to that wedding feast The only folks who will be clothed with Christ's righteousness are those who look to him in faith and the only people who looked him in Faith as he says in John chapter 6 are those whom the father draws that no one can come to me

01:19:16

No one is able that word come it's not a word of permission, but ability. No one there's universal negative No one can able to come to me unless the father

01:19:26

Brought him and so speaking of the effectual calling of the father by the

01:19:31

Spirit to Christ And who does he draw? Effectually, well, he draws all those who belong to Christ that is the elect the few who are chosen

01:19:42

Amen, and so basically what you're saying is according to the scriptures the

01:19:48

Great Commission, we are to proclaim the gospel to every creature and Only those who are among the elect are effectually called that were will be a zister

01:20:00

Irresistibly drawn by grace to respond the rest is it's just an earthly call

01:20:06

It's not a call of God himself when we're speaking of the unelect Oh, yeah, it's like the call the call that I make every time

01:20:12

I preach the gospel to anyone My words float out there.

01:20:17

They hear them. They might intellectually process them They might even have sent to them and say I think they're true

01:20:23

But that isn't saving faith. The Holy Spirit has to give them a new heart Amen, yes, it's it's

01:20:30

Jesus Gets at this to some degree in John 6 after he says no one is able to come to me unless the father who sent me

01:20:37

Draws him and I'll raise him up on the last day He then goes on and it says it is written in the prophets and they will all be taught by God Everyone has learned has heard and learned from the father comes to me

01:20:51

Not that anyone has seen the father except he was from God. He had seen the father So in other words in in the context of the gospel of John Obviously the one who has seen the father who comes from God is the son.

01:21:03

He's seen the father, but the father's the one Who teaches people if you will about the son?

01:21:11

Which is interesting because that's a quotation from a combination of Isaiah 54 13 which if you know that part of Isaiah Isaiah is pointing forward to this coming

01:21:22

They suffering servant this Messiah who will save and he says in Isaiah 54 13 all your children shall be taught by the

01:21:31

Lord himself He'll teach or if you look for example at Jeremiah 31 again in verse 34 and no longer shall each one teach his neighbor and each of the brothers saying know the

01:21:43

Lord for they shall all know me From the least to the greatest That the clear understanding here is that when we come into the

01:21:50

New Covenant you Know as far as this new

01:21:57

Redemptive historical age There is this sense in which the son has come to reveal the father and the father is the one

01:22:04

Who gives the revelation of his son to his people which Jesus will say no one knows the father except the son and no one knows

01:22:10

The son except for the father and everyone to whom he chooses to reveal and etc And he says that all while rejoicing in the

01:22:17

Holy Spirit Right that there's a sense in which the father is the one by his spirit who reveals to us

01:22:25

Christ who teaches us to know him and thereby knowing Christ We now know the father himself and that's by the effectual working of the

01:22:34

Holy Spirit So it's more it's much more if you will supernatural

01:22:41

No, I don't if you will it is Supernatural, but the Holy Spirit does this work as I preach as I preach faith comes by hearing and hearing by the

01:22:51

Word of Christ I would take that to mean that Christ himself is Preaching by the

01:22:56

Spirit. The father is revealing to people or drawing people to Christ and And those whom the father does that and they're saying that's why in Hebrews 2 for example

01:23:06

It says that Jesus is the one preaching right And I think

01:23:12

I think we we don't stop to consider enough that We see the act of preaching or this going out and telling some of the gospel as a very if you will kind of natural human thing

01:23:26

I'm explaining to somebody what I know about Christ and We don't thereby account well enough for the work of the

01:23:33

Holy Spirit Who is? powerfully Going to work by that Word of Christ To convert the sinner or as Paul says, you know to be an aroma of life to summon an aroma of death to others

01:23:49

But what's not happening is neutrality When I teach the Word of God to someone or I proclaim the gospel to someone nothing neutral happening there.

01:23:58

They're either Coming to life by the Powerful working of the

01:24:04

Holy Spirit as the Lord teaches them or They are being you know, if you will they are having condemnation

01:24:11

Keeped up upon them because of their hard -heartedness not only in their sin, but now in their rejection of the gospel

01:24:19

Amen a great answer we have Harrison in Mechanicsburg, Pennsylvania who asks can you explain how inconsistent the non -reformed

01:24:31

Christian is? When they object to an unconditional election and a particular redemption

01:24:37

Where God has a certain number of people known only known only to him that he elects and calls to himself and yet they want to claim that the

01:24:50

Holy Spirit is equally drawing every man whether they are Ever going to be saved or not.

01:24:57

It seems to defy Logic because of the fact that God has not even provided his word

01:25:04

Equally all over the centuries to all peoples and even today not all people have an equal access

01:25:10

To hearing the gospel preach and understanding it Can you please explain how our

01:25:15

Arminian and non -reformed friends are being totally inconsistent about their denial of? unconditional election in particular redemption

01:25:24

Well, yeah There's there's a lot to that I I guess the best thing for me to say is they they they essentially render the cross of Christ Insufficient by saying that the that Christ did not fully

01:25:50

Satisfy the wrath of God against all his people You know that that he he actually

01:25:57

Requires some improvement upon the the work of Christ on the cross through our faith that somehow our

01:26:04

Choosing to believe in some sense improves upon that that work.

01:26:10

So it's not fully sufficient I would say he renders impotent the the Holy Spirit He's out doing his work.

01:26:18

But at the end of the day until I Improve upon the work of the Holy Spirit. He's essentially impotent

01:26:25

And I would say, you know, they they render if you will If I would say the election of the father

01:26:37

To be something that makes him Hostage to to my choice, you know the father in his decree

01:26:46

Is now really? No longer sovereign he's under my authority as As the person willing for my own salvation

01:26:55

So so I look at and I think it's it's I'm not saying that every person who is an

01:27:01

Arminian is not saved I remember when I was one and by the grace of God He opened my eyes to to really understand and submit to what his scriptures say rather than my own rational mind

01:27:14

But at the end of the day, I think that we're we're committing an affront

01:27:20

Against the Holy Triune Lord When we teach that the father's election

01:27:27

Is really submitting to my choice that the sons work on the cross

01:27:32

Really insufficient apart from my choice and at the Holy Spirit's work and applying that That to us is is really ineffectual and rendered impotent by my choice

01:27:44

I think that that's not you know, it's a very unhelpful and Ungracious gospel and probably blasphemes the

01:27:54

Lord if we just dig right down into it Yeah, I don't think you could get around the fact that if you

01:28:01

Really are going to be logically consistent with this and I know that Arminians and non -reformed

01:28:06

Christians Would never or probably at least rarely would say Rather than Jesus saves

01:28:13

Jesus tries to save but I don't think that you can arrive at any other conclusion than to believe that they really

01:28:20

Believed Jesus tries to save and that his death makes men savable and redeemable.

01:28:26

It does not redeem them Yeah, oh for sure for sure. I mean, I Remember hearing a sermon by Sinclair Ferguson years ago called

01:28:37

I think it was called what Jonah learned It was like a Philadelphia or Conference of Reformed Theology or something but he he talked about Jonah being in the in the belly of the fish and Jonah declaring salvation belong to the

01:28:48

Lord and He says with his Scottish rogue the fish the fish spit him out because it was an Arminian fish

01:28:53

I Can't a person really say salvation belongs to the

01:29:06

Lord, you know that that it's of him entirely By grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone to the glory of God alone, right that that that you cannot proclaim that full in a full -throated sense if you deny what we're saying in the

01:29:25

Doctrines of Grace. Right, and I don't think that you can make the claim that it is horrible to believe that God shows favor on a certain number of humanity to the exclusion of others and maintain an

01:29:45

Arminian gospel because of the fact that no one can make the case that God equally shows his favor on every person in the world.

01:29:56

I mean, you can't make the case I mean, there are people who would be executed in certain parts of the world if they believe in Jesus, so to say that that God is equally drawing every person under the

01:30:10

Arminian concept is unattainable, wouldn't you say? Oh yeah, well I mean, that's why

01:30:16

Arminians end up going toward, if they're really consistent, they end up moving toward something like an open theism.

01:30:23

Or universalism. God doesn't know, or a kind of universalism, exactly.

01:30:29

One of those directions. They end up with some sort of, as long as people embrace the light that they have, sort of argument.

01:30:38

Second chances after death. Oh yeah. Oh yeah, like George McDonnell, where you go and you wait for a bit and then you have this kind of second chance after death.

01:30:48

But you know, you look at those kinds of things, they have to formulate in order to accommodate a rejection of things that are just plainly stated in Scripture.

01:30:58

I mean, I don't know how anybody walks through Ephesians 1, 3 -14 and it's just not abundantly clear that the

01:31:07

Father elects in the Son the Son redeems, the Spirit applies that.

01:31:12

You know, we look to Him in faith because of the work of our Triune Lord, not because of anything else.

01:31:18

If it were left up to me, I would be damned eternally. That's where I was before He rescued me, that's where I would remain.

01:31:26

Amen. And it's amazing how many evangelicals have adopted inclusivism and pluralism.

01:31:35

They might say, for instance, in regard to inclusivism, that Jesus certainly is the only

01:31:43

Savior, but you don't need to know that to be saved. In other words, a person who is a devout

01:31:48

Muslim or a devout pagan who might even be worshipping multiple gods made of rock or wood, that person is really worshipping

01:31:59

Christ and he doesn't know it and he'll be saved. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I think one of the responses to this kind of when we're talking about election,

01:32:10

I know what happens with people is they begin to say, um, then why pray and why do missions and why evangelize?

01:32:19

And I think first of all, because God commands us to, and that's a good enough ground to do anything, right?

01:32:26

God commands us to. It's like the conversation I had with a Presbyterian friend of mine who is a pastor, godly man,

01:32:34

I love him, he said to me you know, he was talking to me about, why do you raise your children in the fear and admonition of the

01:32:40

Lord if they're not covenant children? I said, because Ephesians 6 says I should. That's good enough, right? So I mean,

01:32:47

I don't have to, you know, come to evangelism and prayer and mission. The Bible commands me to do those things until we do them.

01:32:57

And I trust the Lord to work in those matters, and frankly,

01:33:02

I mean, our prayer meetings at the Church, as a tribe pastor, by the grace of God, our prayer meetings are generally full. And we have sent out, um, from our

01:33:12

Church, nine missionaries to unreached people groups, and we have ten more in line to go, and we helped start an organization called

01:33:19

Radius International that trains people to go to the most difficult, most unreached places in the world to plant churches.

01:33:25

We have, as of June, we'll have 153 graduates, and we have 60 more coming in to go do that.

01:33:32

And what we're doing, you look at that and say, that's not remarkable in the history of the

01:33:38

Reformed Church. The William Careys and Adenauer and Judsons of the world come from us.

01:33:45

Amen. Well, I want you to now have two minutes of uninterrupted time to just summarize what you most want etched in the hearts and minds of our listeners.

01:33:53

I wanted to inform our listeners, who might not be aware of this, that the last 15 minutes or so of our program today, we are going to be joined by Dean Sell, who is the

01:34:05

Brand Director at Sight & Sound Theaters in Lancaster, Pennsylvania. He's going to be giving us an update on things that are going on with the

01:34:14

Sight & Sound Theaters. So we're having Chad Vegas leave us earlier than normal, but Chad, if you could, just give us a two -minute summary of what you most want our listeners to remember.

01:34:27

Yeah, you know, I think I would want to come back to 2 Corinthians 4 and just drive home the fact that the

01:34:38

Holy Spirit's work is to effectually, powerfully work to bring us to Christ, to see

01:34:47

Him for who He is. Paul says, "...therefore, having this ministry by the mercy of God, we do not lose heart, but we have renounced disgraceful, underhanded ways.

01:34:58

We refuse to practice cunning or to tamper with God's word, but by the open statement of the truth, we would commend ourselves to everyone's conscience inside of God.

01:35:07

And even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled only to those who are perishing. In their case, the

01:35:12

God of this world has blinded the minds of unbelievers, to keep them from seeing the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.

01:35:21

For what we proclaim is not ourselves, but Jesus Christ as Lord, with ourselves as your servants for Jesus' sake.

01:35:27

For God who said, Let light shine out of darkness has shown in our hearts to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ."

01:35:36

And I look at that passage and say, man, that's who we are. We are those people who know the gospel of Jesus Christ by His mercy.

01:35:45

We make an open statement of that truth. We know that if men's minds are blinded from seeing the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, that that's because they're blinded by the

01:35:55

God of this world, and we just keep proclaiming Jesus Christ, and we trust that the same

01:36:01

God who spoke and the universe left into existence will speak into their heart and create them anew and save them and His Son.

01:36:10

And so we can be people who have this treasure in jars of clay, just weak, if you will, useless vessels in and of ourselves, but by the calling and gifting of God, set apart for an honorable use to make

01:36:25

Christ known. That's what we're here to do. I hope that we're faithful in that, and that we trust the

01:36:31

Holy Spirit to work as we make an open statement of the truth about Jesus. Amen, and I want our listeners to know that if you want more information about Chad Vegas and the congregation where he pastors in Bakersfield, California, go to BakersfieldChurch .org

01:36:50

BakersfieldChurch .org That's Sovereign Grace Church in Bakersfield, California. And don't forget if you want to register for the

01:36:57

Banner of Truth East Coast Ministers Conference where Chad will be preaching, along with other men, go to the

01:37:04

BannerofTruth .org, BannerofTruth .org, click on Events and then click on East Coast Ministers Conference.

01:37:10

It's been a joy to have you on Iron Trip and Zion Radio for the first time, Chad, and I look forward to many more interviews, if God is willing, and if you are willing to participate.

01:37:20

We'd love to have you return. Yeah, sure, let me know any time. It's a privilege to be able to speak with you about our

01:37:28

Lord and Savior to whoever is listening. Amen. Well, I look forward to meeting you,

01:37:36

God willing, at the Banner of Truth Conference, May 28th through the 30th in Elizabethtown, Pennsylvania. So God bless you, brother.

01:37:42

We look forward to our next time through the providence of God to have you on Iron Trip and Zion Radio.

01:37:48

Thank you, thank you. I look forward to it as well. God bless. Don't go away, folks. We are going to be joined momentarily by Dean Sell, the

01:37:57

Brand Director at Sight and Sound Theater in Lancaster, Pennsylvania. So stick around and listen to what

01:38:06

Dean has to say regarding updates on this extraordinary Christian theater in Pennsylvania. Don't go away.

01:38:12

We'll be right back. ...featuring the systematic exposition of God's Word.

01:38:40

And this loving congregation looks forward to meeting you. Call them at 631 -929 -3512 for service times.

01:38:49

631 -929 -3512 Or check out their website at wrbc .us

01:38:56

That's wrbc .us I'm James White of Alpha Omega Ministries.

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...for am I now seeking the approval of man or of God? Or am I trying to please man?

01:39:55

If I were still trying to please man, I would not be a servant of Christ. Hi, I'm Mark Lukens, pastor of Providence Baptist Church.

01:40:03

We are a reformed Baptist church and we hold to the London Baptist Confession of Faith of 1689. We are in Norfolk, Massachusetts.

01:40:10

We strive to reflect Paul's mindset to be much more concerned with how God views what we say and what we do than how men view these things.

01:40:18

That's not the best recipe for popularity, but since that wasn't the Apostles' priority, it must not be ours either.

01:40:25

We believe by God's grace that we are called to demonstrate love and compassion to our fellow man and to be vessels of Christ's mercy to a lost and hurting community around us and to build up the body of Christ in truth and love.

01:40:38

If you live near Norfolk, Massachusetts or plan to visit our area, please come and join us for worship and fellowship.

01:40:44

You can call us at 508 -528 -5750. That's 508 -528 -5750.

01:40:50

Or go to our website to email us, listen to past sermons, worship songs, or watch our TV program entitled,

01:40:57

Resting in Grace. You can find us at providencebaptistchurchma .org. That's providencebaptistchurchma .org.

01:41:04

Or even on sermonaudio .com. Providence Baptist Church is delighted to sponsor Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

01:41:30

and is a theologian himself. Recently he wrote a book titled Consider the

01:41:35

Evidence for the Bible. Wrote the foreword. Dan also has a master's degree in theology.

01:41:43

Dan handles serious injury and medical malpractice cases in all 50 states. He represents many

01:41:49

Christians in serious injury matters all over the country. Dan is an exceptional trial lawyer.

01:41:55

He wrote the test for the National Board of Trial Advocacy. And currently his firm has over 100 cases that have settled for 1 million dollars or more.

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01:47:29

Two S's in the middle. I hope to hear from you soon. God bless you. Welcome back. This is Chris Arnzen.

01:47:35

And we have now joining us for the very first time on Iron Trip and Zion Radio, Dean Sell, Brand Director at Sight and Sound Theaters in Lancaster, Pennsylvania.

01:47:46

And Dean is going to be telling us about some very exciting updates about things going on at Sight and Sound Theater.

01:47:52

And it's my honor and privilege to welcome you for the very first time ever to Iron Trip and Zion Radio, Dean Sell. Hey, Chris.

01:47:59

Thank you so much for having me. Really good to be with you. Oh, my pleasure, brother. And if you could let our listeners know a summary of the history of Sight and Sound Theater and exactly what it is.

01:48:11

Because we do have a global audience even though I am in Pennsylvania conducting this broadcast.

01:48:16

I am very familiar with Sight and Sound. In fact, one of my fondest memories of my past with my late wife,

01:48:24

Julie, my precious late wife, we had the opportunity to visit Sight and Sound Theater once.

01:48:30

And I am looking forward to a return visit. Tell us about Sight and Sound Theaters. Well, thanks for saying that.

01:48:37

You know, it is always so encouraging to hear people's stories and just their affection for Sight and Sound and the experience.

01:48:45

Yeah, for those that don't know, Sight and Sound Theaters started in 1976, over 40 years ago, with the mission of presenting the gospel of Jesus in a really creative form.

01:48:56

And what it is... ...is that we've got two locations, one in Lancaster, Pennsylvania, one in Branson, Missouri.

01:49:08

And these are massive, state -of -the -art theaters where we bring Bible stories to life on stage in just epic scale.

01:49:18

What our production teams come up with is just astounding. We're known for massive set pieces that tower three stories tall.

01:49:28

Live animals are in the mix as well. We have a part of every single show.

01:49:34

And so, for the last 40 years, we've done dozens and dozens of stories. We've welcomed 25 million people through our doors.

01:49:41

And I'm really excited in this new venture of filming our shows and broadcasting them into movie theaters all across the country.

01:49:49

Well, I could say firsthand, having been to a number of Broadway plays and some of the most famous of them all,

01:49:59

Tony award -winning plays, I can say that the Sight and Sound Theaters and I'm not exaggerating,

01:50:05

Sight and Sound Theaters, as far as the sets, as far as the acting, as far as the costumes, the whole nine yards, they meet and even,

01:50:18

I think, far exceed the standards of Broadway -level performances.

01:50:25

Well, thank you for saying that, Chris. We love to hear people's encouragement. And we say, hey, we really have an audience of one.

01:50:34

And that is our Father, our Heavenly Father. And so we just want to put forth the very best that we possibly can.

01:50:41

And so we really do value excellence in everything that we do, from not just what the productions look like, but really the process of how we get there.

01:50:49

And the culture that is behind the curtain at Sight and Sound is really important to us as well.

01:50:55

But thank you so much for those kind words. Now, can you tell us about some of the biblical stories that Sight and Sound Theaters has offered as live productions?

01:51:07

I know that the one that I keep hearing so much praise about that I have not personally seen myself, but the one that involves

01:51:15

Noah and the Ark seems to be the one that I keep hearing rave reviews about more than any others.

01:51:22

But if you could give us the list, as far as you can remember, of the presentations from the scriptures that you folks have available at Sight and Sound.

01:51:32

Sure, yeah. Well, I'll start with Noah, just because it first debuted on our stage in 1995.

01:51:39

And it was a really significant moment for us, because that's when we discovered really what we were called to do, or at least how we were called to do it.

01:51:46

Prior to that, we had done some kind of smaller scale Bible stories and variety shows, but that was the first show that was the big epic, towering set pieces.

01:51:58

A stage that surrounded the audience that was filled to the brim with animals. And we said, you know what? This is what we're called to do.

01:52:04

So Noah was the very first biblical epic. And then we've taken on stories like Daniel and the

01:52:09

Lion's Den. Jonah, which is one of my favorites, where the whale actually 30 feet long comes out and swims out over the audience.

01:52:18

And you may be thinking to yourself, how do they do that? Well, you've got to come see it when it comes back to the stage. Moses, we parted the

01:52:25

Red Sea with the audience sitting on the dry ground between the parting waves.

01:52:31

The story of Samson has brought down the house where we had the audience sitting inside of the temple at the very end and he pushes on those pillars, and it comes crashing down over top of the audience.

01:52:43

And then... That's an interesting comment that you made. Are there any casualties during this? Not in the audience.

01:52:52

Not in the audience. But if you know the story, you know that people on stage do not survive. So I'm assuming that this is lightweight material collapsing on the audience?

01:53:04

Correct. It's funny. There's a moment in the story, in the show of Noah, in the top of Act II, when the curtain comes up and the audience is sitting inside the ark.

01:53:16

And we always talk about it because it was that moment where we said, that's what we want to do. It literally takes your breath away.

01:53:23

And so every time we're taking on a new production we're saying, how can we make the audience feel like the interior ark scene again in Noah?

01:53:31

And so in Samson, the temple collapse really was that scene for us. We said, we want the audience sitting inside the temple.

01:53:38

We want these towering columns to be all around them. We want these chandeliers to be over top of them.

01:53:44

And they know it's going to happen. They know that Samson's going to push on those pillars. And when it happens it is just breathtaking.

01:53:51

You literally think that you're going to have a pillar come falling at you. And the lights go out just in time.

01:53:58

Amen. Well, I want to clarify something I'm about to say. Everybody who listens to this program knows well, if they listen regularly anyway, they know that I would never view a theatrical performance as any kind of a replacement for a worship service.

01:54:14

So please don't misunderstand me. But at the same time I think that something like Sight and Sound Theatres is an excellent way to introduce your non -Christian friends to the scriptures by having them attend an event that they might not otherwise ever attend if it was involving just a worship service at your local church.

01:54:37

And that may lead, after they become informed and educated about true biblical accounts from history, they may become so overwhelmed that they may start attending worship services with you.

01:54:51

You never know how God could use this because many people probably most people enjoy these kinds of things, especially when they're very well done, professionally done.

01:55:03

So I just want to strongly urge everyone who listens, if they live in Pennsylvania and the surrounding area especially please visit

01:55:13

Sight and Sound Theatres. But even more than that, if you have a vacation planned coming up in Pennsylvania, make

01:55:22

Sight and Sound Theatres a part of that and perhaps invite your family, friends, and loved ones who may live in the area.

01:55:28

But first of all, tell us how our listeners can do that, how they can purchase tickets and so on, but also tell us about how they can see these filmed performances of Sight and Sound.

01:55:44

Yeah, well thank you for saying that, Chris. You know, we like to say we are not a church, but we are part of the church.

01:55:50

And so we are not just entertainment. That's not our heart. Our mission is to present the gospel, and so we really do want to be a part of God's work in building

01:56:01

His kingdom and seeing the Bible come to life in a different way. We know that God's Word is already alive.

01:56:08

We don't have to do anything else to it. But it is different to see it come to life on the stage than it is to read it on the page.

01:56:16

And so ultimately, I just want to say at the end of the day, our hope is that people would walk out feeling encouraged in their faith and inspired to go read the story for themselves.

01:56:26

All that to say, yes, NOAA is coming to life in movie theaters across the country, and the best place to get information is noaevent .com

01:56:35

is the website where you can find a local movie theater in your neck of the woods. You can find showtimes.

01:56:41

It's happening this week. And then there's also a link there to jump off to the Sight and Sound Maine website.

01:56:47

You can read about our history and find out more about the shows that are happening there. We have Jesus live on stage this year in Lancaster.

01:56:54

We have Samson live on stage in Branson this year, and that website is sight -sound .com.

01:57:01

Sight -sound .com. And is the intention eventually also to have

01:57:07

DVDs available? Absolutely. We started filming the shows with that purpose.

01:57:13

We said, hey, maybe somebody's going to want to take the experience home with them. And what that's grown into is bringing the shows into movie theaters.

01:57:20

And now we are doing a wider home entertainment release where you can get these shows on Amazon and iTunes shortly after the theatrical release.

01:57:31

So yes, look for more information to come on NOAA being released here in the next couple weeks.

01:57:37

Great. Do you have any information on future productions that you care to mention that perhaps have not yet been a part of your live theater productions, but are the vision of the future of Sight and Sound Theatres?

01:57:52

You know, it's amazing. These shows take three and a half years to conceive and design and produce,

01:57:59

Chris. And so we always have new shows in the pipeline. And a show that we just announced this past fall that's going to be coming to the stage for the very first time next year in Lancaster, PA is the story

01:58:11

Queen Esther. And it is just absolutely magnificent. It is beautiful.

01:58:17

It is opulent for the very first time we're taking on that story and that show. And just really excited for it to come to the stage.

01:58:27

Praise God. Well, if you could repeat all of the information that our listeners need, not only to go to a live theatrical production in Lancaster at Sight and Sound Theatres, but also to attend or go to a local theater near them and see the performances on film.

01:58:47

And perhaps they could even get a local theater near them to have one of these showings of the films that might not otherwise do so.

01:58:58

Yes. So, NOAA, our first -ever biblical epic, filmed in front of a live audience, is coming to life on the big screen in movie theaters across the country.

01:59:09

It's this week. It's tomorrow, Tuesday. It is Thursday and Saturday only.

01:59:14

And you can go to noaevent .com if you have listeners in Canada.

01:59:21

There are additional Canadian dates that are happening later this month. And you can just go to noaevent .com

01:59:27

slash Canada. And then, of course, if you would like to find out more about Sight and Sound and the shows that we have happening live on stage this year, you can go to sight -sound .com.

01:59:38

Well, I want to thank you so much, Dean. If you could just hold on the line so I can give you a proper goodbye after we go off the air.

01:59:44

I want to thank everybody who listened today to iTrip and Zion Radio, and I want you all to always remember for the rest of your lives that Jesus Christ is a far greater