December 27, 2022 Show with Bill Dudley on “A Pastor Who Was a Drive-By Victim of a Sexual Predator of Children in the Boy Scouts Speaks Out”

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Christian scholars, and theologians address the burning issues facing the church and the world today.

Proverbs, chapter 27, verse 17, tells us iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another.

Matthew Henry said that in this passage, we are cautioned to take heed with whom we converse and directed to have in view in conversation to make one another wiser and better.

It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next two hours, and we hope to hear from you, the listener, with your own questions.

And now, here's your host, Chris Arnzen. Good afternoon,

Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida, and the rest of humanity living on the planet

Earth who are listening via live streaming at ironsharpensironradio .com. This is

Chris Arnzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Tuesday on this 27th day of December 2022.

I trust everyone listening had a glorious Christmas celebration with those that you love, and if you didn't,

I pray that our Lord, our merciful Lord, will minister to your heart and mind nonetheless.

And I know what it's like to have a sad Christmas and a sad Thanksgiving and a sad

Easter, having lost my wife, my precious late wife, Julie, who's been in eternity with Christ for a little over a decade now.

So I know what it can be like to be sad during these very precious holidays.

So my heart goes out to you if you are among the number that were sad during this holiday season.

But today we have on the program a first -time guest and a returning guest who's actually serving as a co -host with me today.

My first -time guest today is Bill Dudley, and he is a pastor of Union Church of South Foxborough, Massachusetts, and he's also featured in a very important documentary about sexual abuse in the

Boy Scouts titled Boy Scouts Honor. And Pastor Bill is going to be addressing a pastor who as a child was a drive -by victim of a major sexual predator of children in the

Boy Scouts speaks out. And first of all, it's my honor and privilege to welcome you for the very first time ever to Iron Trip and Zion Radio, Pastor Bill Dudley.

Thank you, Chris. I'm happy to be with you today. It's an important topic. Amen, and I'm thrilled to have you on the program, and I was thrilled to hear from Pastor Dudley right before the program began to air live that two of his sons -in -law are big fans of the

Iron Trip and Zion Radio program, so I hope that they are listening today. We have, as I mentioned, a returning guest who is actually primarily a co -host with me today due to the fact that she wrote two books, co -authored two books that are very much related to our subject today.

Her name will be very familiar to most Iron Trip and Zion Radio listeners. Her name is

Dr. Latane C. Scott, a former Mormon and convert to biblical Christianity and the author of many books, including

Protecting Your Child from Predators and Talking with Teens About Sexuality, and it's my honor and privilege to welcome you back to Iron Trip and Zion Radio, Dr.

Latane C. Scott. Always a privilege to be on your show,

Chris. Thank you. And Pastor Bill, before we get into your salvation testimony, which is a tradition here on Iron Trip and Zion Radio for first -time guests, tell our listeners about Union Church of South Foxborough, Massachusetts.

Well, we're a small evangelical church, non -denominational.

We have a great history going back to 1876, where we were begun actually by Quakers.

Today, we have a growing ministry and we do a lot of stuff with people in recovery, people who are suffering from various types of substance addictions, and it's pretty exciting to see people's lives changed and desperation give way to hope.

Amen. And it was founded by Quakers. How would you describe the church theologically today,

Union Church of South Foxborough? I would describe we're biblical, biblical church, sort of mainstream biblical theology.

I'm a Gordon Conwell person, a Billy Graham person, so we would sort of fit into that mold.

Although one old saying that's kind of stuck in my head is that Union Church, we sometimes have one of everybody.

Well, if anybody wants to find out more about this congregation, you can go to sofox .nm

-secure .com, that's sofox .nm

-secure .com, and we'll be repeating that later on in the program. And now, as I already alluded to, since you are a first -time guest,

I'd like you to continue our tradition here on Iron Trip and Zion Radio by providing our listeners with a summary of your salvation testimony that would include the kind of religious atmosphere, if any, you were raised in and what kind of providential circumstances our sovereign

Lord raised up in your life that drew you to himself and saved you. Well, that's an interesting—I'm always surprised to be sitting where I am and doing what

I'm doing. When I grew up, we did not—my family did not go to church.

Before my 18th birthday, there were probably four or five times in all those years growing up that we went into a church.

Um, when I was a teenager, I became conscious of what I didn't realize then, but of course

I do now, was sort of a spiritual hunger. You know, we all have a spiritual—whoever we are created by God, whoever we are, whatever person we are in the world, we have a space in us placed there by our

Creator that only God can fill. And we try to fill it with alcohol, we try to fill it with money, we try to fill it with popularity or fame, and none of those things are satisfying.

And in my case as a teenager, it was alcohol, and I was a teenage alcoholic.

And I began to get desperate and say, I'm going to die if I don't—if this situation in my life doesn't change,

I'm not going to survive. And I was aware that something was missing in my life.

And I got out of high school, I had no direction. I began working in the local factory, and a guy was—within a month—transferred into my department.

I was 17 years old, this guy was 20. He rode a Harley, he wore a leather jacket and jeans, and it turned out he was a

Christian. And I had a conversation with him that—I said to him, he said, are you a

Christian? I said, of course I am. He said, do you go to church? I said, no. He said, do you read the

Bible? I said, that's for old women. He said, do you follow—do you know who

Jesus is, and do you follow him? And I said, no, he's just some guy that lived a long time ago.

He said, then how are you a Christian? And I was filled with questions, and I began going to him on breaks and lunch and after work, asking spiritual questions.

What I didn't know at the time, but now I do, were spiritual questions. Meanwhile, in Alcoholics Anonymous, they were telling me, if you want to recover,

God is the key to recovery. You have to develop a relationship with God, which is what

Alcoholics Anonymous teaches. Long story short, one night

I got on my knees in my bedroom, 17 years old, and I prayed one sentence, and I had no idea what it meant.

I had no idea what the cross meant. I had no idea what a Savior meant. I had no idea what sin was, but I prayed and said, okay,

Jesus, from now on, I'll do it your way. Amen. And I stood up a different person, and that was the seeing the light moment for me.

Well, praise God. And I'm so glad that motorcycle -riding

Christian asked you those questions, because in today's modern evangelical world, sadly, you would very rarely hear someone challenge a person with that strong language of basically insisting on repentance and insisting on evidence that somebody is truly in love with Christ and following Him.

You have those who would just merely have you recite a prayer, and they would just take that mimicked or echoed prayer as the only evidence they needed that you were truly born again.

But this man was looking for real evidence that you were bearing fruit, and you were not.

And so I'm glad that he challenged you in that strong way. When was it that you realized you had a call from God to enter into pastoral ministry?

I'm still wondering about that question. I began going to church with my sister, although I was by then 18, to a local church here.

I began going to youth group. I loved doing it. The pastor's wife was in charge of it.

She asked me to help with younger kids, junior high kids, and I did. And I so enjoyed being with the kids and sort of doing ministry.

I went to college, got a religion degree, went on to seminary. I just never really left it.

And I still go to youth group all these years later. Well, I am delighted, as I said, that you, by God's providence, are my guest today.

And by the way, I want to remind Dr. Latane C. Scott, my co -host, that she does not need to wait for me to ask her to participate with her own questions.

As soon as you have a question and there's a lull in the conversation, you can immediately voice that question, since I'm not going to always be looking at my screen and seeing your face and so forth.

So whenever you have a question, you may feel free to chime in, because your questions will likely be the most valuable in this discussion due to your having been the author, the co -author of Protecting Your Child from Predators, especially.

But this documentary, Where I Discovered You, Pastor Dudley, Boy Scouts Honor, which you can find out more about it, folks, at boyscoutshonor .com

is the website. But I watched this documentary, and you were the only evangelical

Bible -believing Christian who participated in the documentary. And I immediately, during this documentary, while viewing it, said,

I've got to get Pastor Dudley on my program. So tell us about the major outline of this documentary and the hideous crimes that took place among not only yourself, and you, as you will give more detail momentarily, will make it clear to our audience that the crime against you was clearly not as vile and repulsive and criminal as what happened to the other boys, who are now men, interviewed in this documentary.

But tell us a basic outline so our listeners understand what Boy Scouts Honor, the documentary, is all about.

So the director, Ash, really wanted to explore the story across the country of the perversion files the

Boy Scouts kept, which is when the Boy Scouts, beginning in the 1920s, had a file of pedophiles.

They had a record of pedophiles from all across the country with thousands of names in it.

And they kept this so if someone were a pedophile in a particular geographical area in the

Boy Scouts, they could be prevented from continuing to serve in that area. But what they never did was prevent the person from moving to a new area and serving.

And what they also never did was report it to law enforcement or in any way warn the public about these leaders who were wolves in sheep's clothing.

It sounds like a mirror or really nearly an identical story to what has occurred within the

Roman Catholic Church, even for centuries. With the added evil of what the

Roman Catholic Church did is they not only did not prevent pedophile and child -abusing priests from relocating, they sent them to different parishes intentionally knowing of their background.

But quite an interesting similarity. And it's also might be amazing to our listeners that this goes back in the history of the

Boy Scouts, as you said, to the 1920s, which many people today may naively think, oh, that didn't happen back then.

But obviously it did. Well, thank you,

Bill. Yes, ma 'am. Something that I learned from the documentary that I wasn't aware of was that many of these predators were so clever that they would change, slightly change the spelling of their own names and to reapply for positions if they kind of gotten on the radar of the

Boy Scouts, not that apparently the Boy Scouts of America did much about it, but if they thought that they were on the radar that these predators would reapply with slight variations to their name or other contact information so that they were treated as a new person, you know, applying for the job.

I just and that I've known that predators are incredibly clever and manipulative, but I never thought of even that subtle a thing making such an impact.

They're incredibly clever in a lot of the manipulative tactics they use, both with adults, with the community, with how they present themselves as upstanding people.

And of course, you know, tactics they use with kids. If you don't let me do this,

I know where your little brother goes to school, that type of stuff. So you're right.

They're incredibly clever at sliding below the radar. And this documentary primarily focuses upon one

Scoutmaster who was a prominent member of the community in which he lived. Why don't you tell us more about this man who was apparently highly respected and even beloved by many in the community and didn't realize this dark satanic side?

So the gentleman, I shouldn't call him a gentleman, but the man was

Bill Sheehan in Foxborough. He grew up in the town next to Foxborough, the town of Mansfield, Massachusetts.

He was hired as a teacher in the Foxborough Public Schools, I believe, in 1961 and developed in that time as a teacher.

He taught in at least four of our local elementary schools. He taught.

He also became a Boy Scout leader for 20 years. He was the primary leader in Troop 7 here in Foxborough, which was one of the two big troop organizations.

And when Foxborough bought some property and developed a swimming hole, a beachfront, just a little small pond for kids to swim in, guess who became the waterfront director, the swim teacher, the guy who had absolute authority over the

Ocasset River Park? It was the same Bill Sheehan. And the guy was a dynamo in our town.

He was well known. He was well thought of. Town leaders, school, parents,

Boy Scout people all fell under his sway. He's a very charismatic guy.

So, tell us exactly how things progressed and how quickly they progressed upon your first meeting him and what it was that he did to you that you have described to me off the air as a grooming process, in your opinion.

And also, perhaps even Dr. Latancy Scott can chime in after that because apparently from what she said off the air also is that this is very common amongst pedophiles.

But if you could, Pastor Dudley. So, what pedophiles often have is what we call a preference there.

And he was a preferential pedophile. He seemed to go after boys who were between 7 and 10 to at least begin a relationship.

He preferred small, skinny boys that most of us in comparing notes have figured out.

And what he did with me was I was down at the waterfront, down at the beach.

I went up to use the bathroom, which was in the same building as his office. And he called to me,

Billy. And I didn't even know he knew my name. He had given some swim lessons, but I had only been in a group of kids.

But he said, Billy, let's go look for fossils. And I barely know what a fossil was.

I was probably nine years old and I was barefoot. I had only a bathing suit on.

And I said, I don't have any shoes, Mr. Sheehan. And he said, that doesn't matter.

Come on. And he led me off through the woods out to a sand pit that was nearby.

And he turned over a couple of rocks, said, oh, I don't see any fossils. Then he grabs me.

He pins me down on the ground. He pins my arms with his knees so I can't defend myself in any way.

Not that a nine -year -old boy has much chance against a grown man. And he sat on top of me and tickled me.

I don't know if it was for a minute, two minutes, three minutes. But I couldn't even breathe. I was laughing so hard.

I'm very ticklish. All five of my grandchildren know that to this day.

And I was begging him to stop. I have no idea if he put his hand in my private area or what he did to me.

But when he was all done, he just got up and said, well, let's go back. So that was my experience, which

I label a drive -by. And maybe

Latane wants to comment on it as grooming behavior, which is what I think it is. Yeah, of course,

I will depend very heavily on the clinical and experiential expertise of my co -author,

Dr. Beth Robinson, who deals daily with abused children.

And tickling is kind of a form of torture because it takes complete control away from a human being.

And because they're laughing, it seems like it might be funny to the person being tickled.

They don't regard it as funny. It's as you described, and especially someone sitting on top of you, you know, you're expelling all that air, you know, and you can't expand your lungs to get it back in.

I can't imagine how horrific that must have been for you. I'm so sorry that happened. But tickling and other things are often used as precursors,

Dr. Beth says, to kind of test the waters with a child. That if the child will allow them any kind of physical contact like that, they will kind of judge whether or not they think the child can be further developed for other things.

And in the movie, which I just, I really want the

Iron Sharpens Iron people to, listeners, to do what I did.

I rented the movie. I'm going to buy it. I rented it on Amazon. And it is, it's such a powerful movie, because one of the things that one of the experts said, and I'm so sorry

I don't remember her name, but it was a woman who's, like Dr. Beth, has dealt with many people.

She said grooming is a nonviolent interaction between a predator and his prey.

And it's, and I think the reason she said nonviolent is it's not rape.

It's not the, it's not the end game. It is something to kind of assess and to develop a dependency of the child on the adult.

And I don't know if you had this experience, Pastor Bill, that another one of the people in the documentary said that he was rewarded by this predator by giving increased amounts of responsibility and honor in the

Boy Scout community. And in that little camp, you know, being given leadership roles and that sort of thing, even though he wasn't quite really old to have done that.

Is that something that happened to you in the grooming, in the grooming process? Were you, did he give you any rewards of any sort?

So I was not actually a Boy Scout. But I can say, so you're referring to my dear friend

Erin Eberhardt, who was the victim, who was the primary subject of the documentary, who, when the predator

Sheehan left Foxborough, he targeted kids in Fort Myers, Florida. But I can say that other kids who were

Boy Scouts, particularly Kevin, who's in the documentary, he did the same tactic of offering rewards and promotions within the

Boy Scouts, making them, making them feel special, which is a typical predatory tactic, make the kid feel like they're obligated to put up with this behavior, because after all, they're getting rewarded in these other ways, which to a kid in Boy Scouts or church or any other setting is very important to them.

Now, one thing I wanted to just chime in about to clarify what Dr. Scott just said, and I'm sure, at least very confident,

Latane would agree with me and you as well, Pastor Bill, that it is completely acceptable and even,

I think, endearing and precious for a father or mother to tickle their child, that in that case, it would not be in any way, shape or form a method of torture.

But a lot of this, or all of this, where it crosses the line from something that a child will lovingly remember for the rest of their lives, perhaps, in regard to their playtime with their own parents, is there's a different, what makes it different is who is doing it to a child and why they are doing it.

Would you agree with that, Dr. Scott? That's a very good point, and I'm glad that you brought that up, because there are many things, for instance, a parent holding a child close is very different than a predator holding a child close.

You know, tickling, mild tickling and giggling between parent and child is normal and healthy and good, you know, as long as the child is not made uncomfortable by it.

And, of course, children rarely are when it's just their parents doing it mildly. So, that's a good point.

I'm glad you pointed that out. Yeah, and I've also never seen a loving parent pin a child down to the ground with their knees, obviously, and their shoulders, which is a lot more aggressive than the kind of play and interaction that parents have with their children.

And we're going to be going to our first break right now. If anybody listening has a question for Pastor Bill Dudley or even my co -host,

Dr. Latane C. Scott, co -author of a book that has a lot to do with our discussion today,

Protecting Your Child from Predators, our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com,

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royaldiadem .com. And we are now back with Pastor Bill Dudley of Union Church of South Foxborough, Massachusetts, who is featured in the documentary

Boy Scouts Honor. We are addressing the theme, a pastor who as a child was a drive -by victim of a major sexual predator of children in the

Boy Scouts, speaks out. And we have as our co -host today, Dr.

Latane C. Scott, who is the co -author of Protecting Your Child from Predators and Talking with Teens About Sexuality and many other books.

If you have a question, send it to ChrisArnzen at gmail .com, ChrisArnzen at gmail .com. Give us your first name at least, city and state, and country of residence.

You may remain anonymous if it's a personal and private question. And Pastor Bill, when this was occurring to you, when this tickle episode of the man who would later be revealed as a bona fide sexual predator, what were your thoughts?

Did you actually think that he was trying to sexually molest you? Did you just think it was weird?

Did you think it was funny? What was going on in your mind? So I'm nine years old and really didn't have any sense of what sexuality was.

So that didn't cross my mind at all. But he had a very disturbed, disturbing smile on his face.

Latane used the word torture, and I think that was accurate. And I think he was getting some sort of perverse pleasure out of it.

And because of that, I felt certainly that this was really weird that an adult

I barely knew was doing this. It was weird to me that all either of us had on were swimsuits.

And I was terrified, terrified that this adult, against my will, with no other trusted adult around to help me, was completely rendering me powerless to defend myself by sitting on top of me.

It was a very strange experience. Now, lest anybody think that this documentary is solely based on the evidence of what had occurred to Pastor Dudley, you'd be mistaken to assume that.

That could be interpreted a number of ways by people who hear about that incident.

And no one should automatically with certainty conclude that a child molester did such a thing to a child.

But what added to the credibility and the certainty of that charge was that this predator was later proven to be, by the testimony of other actual

Boy Scouts, that he was a child rapist and actually sodomized some of these children.

If you could go on with a summary of some of the major stories in this documentary,

Pastor Bill. Well, he left here. He was finally left

Foxborough. We think he had some 200, we would estimate 200 victims in this community and surrounding area.

He went to Florida and the main character is actually the kid he attacked viciously down there, one of the kids,

Aaron Eberhardt. But among the things that he'd like to do to kids, he'd like to hold them underwater until they literally thought they were going to die.

Some of them passed out. He would choke kids while he was sodomizing them, raping them.

He would chase them through the woods. On campouts here at Kocasset River Park, he would put a rubber mask that pulled over his entire head and a pig mask.

He would terrify kids by coming out of the woods with this mask, grabbing their feet and reaching into the tents.

If it was a Boy Scout campout, try to drag them out of their tent, absolutely terrify them.

Then he would disappear and come back as himself. Kids would be terrified and he'd say, well, you can come sleep in my tent.

He also taught kids that you're warmest in your sleeping bag on a campout if you take all your clothes off and sleep naked.

He said that's how the sleeping bag works properly. They're kids, they didn't know any better.

These were some of the tactics that he used. Any red flashing lights and alarm bells go off with you,

Dr. Scott, with anything that you heard our guests describe as far as your experience from co -authoring

Protecting Your Child from Predators? I think this man took things to a higher level,

I guess, because he wasn't supervised and doing things that terrified people. From what

I have learned from Dr. Robinson, the typical demeanor of a sexual predator is one that is a friend, that is helpful to the family, who doesn't make waves, that he's there to babysit, or she is there to help out.

He helps build a child's self -esteem by giving them gifts and giving them rewards and things like that.

I think this guy went beyond just sexual predation to actual torture.

I think that's what Pastor Bill saw, is that someone took pleasure in hurting people, not just in gratifying his own sexual proclivities, but in actually making people hurt.

Well, we do have an anonymous listener who says, my memories of the

Boy Scouts were absolutely wonderful and benefited my life in innumerable ways.

What was the aftermath in regard to the Boy Scouts of America?

After things like this have occurred, do the Boy Scouts still exist? And must we not be very careful not to insinuate that the good and honorable men involved in scouting were involved in this kind of behavior?

Pastor Bill? Well, the Boy Scouts are still around.

I have a friend who works for them. I'm not entirely clear on the figures, but I believe they've paid out $800 million from from their insurers to victims.

It says at the end of the documentary that that came out to $3 ,500 on average to the victims of pedophiles in the

Boy Scout ranks. What you can say about the

Boy Scouts is true of churches or schools. By the way,

Protestant denominations just as much as the Catholic Church, as well as the

Boy Scouts. For the majority of kids, it's a very positive experience.

It's a learning experience. Life skills are picked up in church cases. You know, faith is picked up.

But then for the percentage of kids, it's the opposite experience.

Faith is destroyed. Self -esteem is destroyed. Confidence in institutions is destroyed.

Really, lives are destroyed. I mean, I could tell you some of the results of some of the victims of this one pedophile in the

Boy Scouts. Alcoholism, drug use, broken marriages, estranged relationships from family members who didn't believe the story.

One guy died in an alleyway in Montreal as a male prostitute.

I mean, you can go on and on with some of the ramifications that are terrible.

So absolutely, a lot of these institutions do a majority of wonderful things that are very essential for kids.

And then for a certain percentage, it's extremely destructive. And we're going to be going to our midway break right now.

Please be patient because this is the longer break in the middle of the show, because Grace Life Radio, 90 .1

FM in Lake City, Florida, requires of us a longer break in the middle of the show because the

FCC requires of them to geographically localize all of their programming, including this one, to Lake City, Florida.

While they do that, we simultaneously air our globally heard commercials. Please use this time wisely.

Try to write down as much of the contact information for as many of our advertisers as possible during this break so that you can more frequently and successfully contact our advertisers.

And we would love it if you would on occasion purchase their products, use their services, visit their churches.

When you can't do any of those things, there's one thing you definitely can do. You can contact our advertisers and thank them for sponsoring this show, if indeed this show is a blessing to you.

So please contact our advertisers and also send in your questions to Bill Dudley at chrisarnson at gmail .com,

chrisarnson at gmail .com. Don't go away. We're going to be right back after these messages. I'm Dr.

Joseph Piper, President Emeritus and Professor of Systematic and Applied Theology at Greenville Presbyterian Theological Seminary.

Every Christian who's serious about the Deformed Faith and the Westminster Standards should have and use the eight -volume commentary on the theology and ethics of the

Westminster Larger Catechism titled Authentic Christianity by Dr. Joseph Morecraft.

It is much more than an exposition of the Larger Catechism. It is a thoroughly researched work that utilizes biblical exegesis as well as historical and systematic theology.

Dr. Morecraft is pastor of Heritage Presbyterian Church of Cumming, Georgia, and I urge everyone looking for a biblically faithful church in that area to visit that fine congregation.

For details on the eight -volume commentary, go to westminstercommentary .com, westminstercommentary .com.

For details on Heritage Presbyterian Church of Cumming, Georgia, visit heritagepresbyterianchurch .com,

heritagepresbyterianchurch .com. Please tell Dr. Morecraft and the saints at Heritage Presbyterian Church of Cumming, Georgia that Dr.

Joseph Piper of Greenville Presbyterian Theological Seminary sent you. If you're near retirement or thinking about retiring, you probably have questions.

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Our congregation is one of a growing number of churches who love and support Iron Sharpens Iron Radio financially.

Grace Church at Franklin is an independent autonomous body of believers which strives to clearly declare the whole counsel of God as revealed in scripture through the person and work of our

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This is Pastor Bill Sousa wishing you all the richest blessings of our sovereign

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Hi, this is John Samson, Pastor of King's Church in Peoria, Arizona. Taking a moment of your day to talk about Chris Arnzen and the

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Before I return to my guest, Bill Dudley, and my co -host, Latane Scott, I just have a couple of very important announcements to make.

First of all, if you love this program, you don't want it to disappear from the airwaves,

I'm urging you, please, go to IronSherpaZionRadio .com, click support, then click, click to donate now.

You can donate instantly with a debit or credit card in that fashion. And if you prefer snail mail, sending in a physical check to a physical address the old -fashioned way, there will be a physical address that also appears on your screen when you click support at IronSherpaZionRadio .com,

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So just send me an email to chrisarnson at gmail .com and put advertising in the subject line.

And remember, folks, as I try to remind you every day, please never give your own church, where you are a member, less money than you're accustomed to giving them, in order to give

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And also, if you're really struggling to survive and make ends meet, why not wait a while before giving us a gift?

Wait until you're more financially stable and back on your feet before sending us a check. Two things that are clear in the

Bible about finances is that we are commanded to provide for our church and provide for our family.

Obviously, there's nowhere in the Bible where you are commanded to give to my radio program, but if you love the show, don't want it to disappear, and you have extra money collecting interest in the bank or extra money for benevolent and recreational and trivial purposes, then please use some of that money to share with us, if indeed you love the show and don't want us to disappear.

That's chrisarnson at gmail .com, chrisarnson at gmail .com, and click,

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and click support. Last but not least, if you are not a member of a

Christ -honoring, biblically faithful, theologically sound, doctrinally solid church, no matter where you live on the planet earth,

I have extensive lists spanning the globe of theologically sound churches, and I have helped many people in the

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If you just tuned us in, we have been discussing the documentary Boy Scouts Honor, which reveals the stories of individuals who were sexually abused while in the

Boy Scouts. Our guest, Bill Dudley, believed he was being groomed by the same man whom it was later revealed was a bona fide sexual predator, and the stories in this documentary reveal some of those accounts.

If you have a question, send it to chrisarnson at gmail .com, chrisarnson at gmail .com.

Give us your first name at least, city and state, and country of residence. We have a question from Cindy in Findlay, Ohio.

Good afternoon, Chris, Pastor, and Dr. Scott. What would you say is the intelligence level of most of these perpetrators, number one, and number two, do they typically have psychological issues?

Obviously, I'm assuming Cindy is differentiating a clinically certified a psychological problem and the fact that anyone who would do such a thing to a child definitely has serious and dark mental problems, and it should be more accurately,

I guess, categorized as satanic sin, but if you could, Bill, answer those two questions.

Well, certainly a person who does a—I'm not a trained licensed psychologist or psychiatrist to give a diagnosis per se, but certainly a person who would do such a thing to a child in layman's terms is deeply disturbed, probably emotionally frozen in pre -puberty sexuality, and regarding intelligence,

I'm sure pedophiles range in intelligence like any other human being, but the ones who are what we might term major pedophiles, which is my own term, a lot of them are very brilliant people, and they're in the pulpit, they're in the doctor's office, they're in the classroom, they're in the professor's lecture hall, as well as any other walk of life.

They're politicians, as we know from, unfortunately, former longest -serving Speaker of the

House in the U .S. turned out to be a pedophile. I had a mutual friend with him who was shattered by that revelation, so it's all walks of life and all types of people, and if I can just go back to one point that Chris sort of raised earlier also, it's any denomination, it's any type of church, they go where there's a safe place to operate.

Churches are attractive because they're trusting. In some churches, there's a lot of tradition of hugging and affection in the body of Christ, and they take advantage of all that and the trust of church officials.

In my own church, which average attendance, depending pre - and post -COVID, 110 on average on a

Sunday, 75 now, we're a small church, I've escorted out of here probably eight pedophiles.

Wow, that's amazing. Including my former associate pastor who had been a

Baptist minister for 40 years before he came to work for me. Wow, amazing, and I'm assuming that there was zero signs that gave you a red light or a red flag, that there was anything of that nature involved with this man?

In every single case of the people I've escorted out of here,

I was tipped off by someone who had information, thought I should know it, and I'm deeply grateful to every one of them, but yes, zero signs.

Well, one of the things that Cindy asked about, she said, do they typically have psychological issues?

Obviously, those that get away with it for the longest period of times likely don't have obvious psychological issues.

I've seen documentaries where there are prison inmates that have been interviewed who are in prison for pedophilia and other crimes, and sometimes these people do have noticeable psychological issues, but they were caught and they're in jail.

The people that are repeat offenders for decades and get away with it, they're likely showing no sign of anything like that.

That's why families welcome them into their homes and so forth, am I right? Absolutely. I mean, the pedophile here,

I want to be careful how I put it on the air, in the worst possible way would abuse a boy, then give him a ride home and be invited to dinner with the family and sit next to the boy at the family dinner table.

How terrifying is that? But that's how well they're able to present themselves and fool the most caring, loving parents that a person could be.

Dr. Latane C. Scott, from your experience in co -authoring

Protecting Your Child from Predators with Beth Robinson, do you have any other comments on that question, or do you have your own question for Bill Dudley?

I have two questions for him, but I would like to say that in our own congregation where I live, the most successful sexual predator was another child.

The most successful and enduring sexual predator was a child with some very deep problems who was molesting other children.

I think what the message that listeners should be hearing is, don't ever think anybody is above suspicion if you have a feeling in your heart that a child is being abused.

You should pursue it. You should ask questions and remember that children are terrified and ashamed when these things happen most of the time.

Again, this is my only experience with a sexual predator in a church setting.

It was someone who should have been, you'd never dream that it'd be a kid doing it to other kids. Let me ask you a question,

Latane, and also Pastor Dudley, you could chime in also. There is that awkwardness and that line that we are teetering on when you say if you suspect something, say something.

Obviously, there are two things here. Number one, slandering somebody, even if unintentionally, about a crime this satanic and evil could really wreak havoc in the life of an innocent person and destroy the reputation, perhaps even permanently, in a community.

How and who and when do we make that first step to start asking questions about somebody that you're suspecting?

Because in this day and age that we live in, you may have some people that are overly paranoid about this and suspect any act of kindness or even word of kindness from an adult to a child that is not his or her own, might be immediately put on a suspect list for being a pedophile.

So we don't want to obviously spread rumors and gossip and bear false witness.

But at the same time, you don't want children to be subject to what might not only be a sexual molestation, but it might even be the murder of a child, because some pedophiles do murder children either to cover up their crimes or because that's a part of their sexual desire.

But Latane and then Pastor Dudley, you can chime in. Well, I would very much like to hear how

Pastor Dudley handled this, because he obviously has some very good experience with this, and I yield to him because I want to learn from him.

Okay. As far as pastoral counsel, Pastor Dudley? Yeah. To clarify, we were fortunate not to have any incidents in our church.

I was tipped off that some people were—all men, by the way—were pedophiles who were attending here over the years, and I don't allow them.

Once I was able to substantiate they had a conviction or something like that,

I would ban them from the property. I don't allow them here. But in Foxborough, what we did was we actually formed an official town committee, voted a town meeting—Foxborough

Child Sexual Abuse Awareness Committee—and in all segments of our town society, school sports, the schools, public safety, meaning fire and police, and the churches, and beyond that, even the

Rotary Club. We use, for that very thing that you raised very wisely,

Chris, the Darkness to Light curriculum, which is put out by an organization called

Stewards of Children. It's promoted by the YMCA all across the country, and Darkness to Light is about an hour and a half training that you can give to people in churches, church leaders, or any other segment of society,

Boy Scouts, who are our topic today. It trains people on what the signs are, what the situations are that you can recognize that a child may be abused, and then what to do about it.

The best thing you can do is contact—state by state, the title varies—your

Department of Youth Services or your local police, and allow the professionals to take it from there.

I realize, Chris, you raised the point that it can harm a person's reputation, and that's true.

It's a hard thing, but a professional investigation usually has some cloak of anonymity to protect people against that very thing and determine whether there's a situation that really is criminal behavior or pedophilia.

I was just going to conclude by saying I long ago made peace in my heart that if I have to choose between the well -being of a child who is always defenseless or having an adult like me or approve of me or be furiously angry with me for asking questions or pursuing a situation,

I will always pick the kid. Now, what would be an example of something that would, in your opinion, transform the reaction to a witness from, hmm, that's sort of odd, to I better call the police about this.

Or I better tell an elder about this. Or I better confront this person face -to -face about this.

Give us some examples, because there might be all kinds of things that people naively do that are weird when it comes to children.

So give us some examples of of where you would say that person who is witnessing something should definitely tell someone or confront the person himself.

In fact, should that ever be the first step to confront the person himself, and I say himself because of the fact that it's predominantly men who do this, not exclusively, but predominantly, should, like every other sin that we can think of, confronting the person to their face first is the biblical model.

So how do we break from that model without violating the scriptures, if you follow what I'm saying? So get training, get familiar with the subject.

If you're going to work with children in some capacity, realize this is an issue, this type of abuse will damage them for life.

The oldest person I know impacted by pedophilia for their whole life turned 90 this fall.

But secondly, if you see something as you describe as weird or odd, never be afraid to say something.

Never be afraid, even if a person gets angry, never be afraid to advocate for the child and say, you shouldn't be alone in this room, in the church, the school, wherever, with this child.

Never be afraid to say, hey, our policy is to adults in a classroom with children.

You should not be alone in here. Never be afraid to speak up. But a type of situation where you're tipped off that it very well could be a pedophilia situation, it's actually well documented in the case of Aaron in the documentary, a change in behavior.

A normally happy, outgoing kid becomes sullen and withdrawn. A kid's grades have always been solid, now all of a sudden they're bad.

All of a sudden, a kid who's been a happy kid, a family -oriented kid, is withdrawing from the family, is hanging out with quote -unquote the wrong kids, maybe has turned into drug use when that was never something you would have put on the radar, or is afraid, just a kid with a scared look on their face regularly.

And what you, really, the thing you want to do rather than confront somebody is see if you can get the child to disclose to someone they trust about what's going on.

We have an anonymous listener who says, as a pastor and counselor, how can people overcome being the victims of sexual abuse, especially when they were children, which

I'm assuming remains with them as a constant nightmare, possibly for the rest of their lives?

I think telling their story, if that's a question for me, and I don't want to talk over Latane in any way, shape, or form, but I would say being a safe place for someone to tell their story is very healing.

We, any of us, can be that person who listens, who offers empathy, offers emotional support, who says, it was never your fault, you were a child, you did not choose this.

So being a safe place is very healing and very important. And not downplaying it, not dismissing it as something they ought to get over, or that happened a long time ago, those are hurtful words to a survivor of sexual abuse.

So for the average person, I think those are things we can do, just be that safe place, be empathetic, pray with the person, encourage the person to tell their story.

And people are very resilient, and with empathy and support and love, they can overcome this.

But again, a lot of people are lost to drugs and alcohol and those dark places because they don't overcome it.

And of course, we have a Savior that loves us, who are

His children, no matter what we have been through and even what we have done prior to coming to Christ, who welcomes us, who will enable us to overcome and have victory in this life, no matter what has happened to us.

And we do have that mercy and loving and compassionate Savior that has to be,

I think, the key to all of us in regard to any event that has harmed us in this life.

Let me ask my own question before I go to a listener question. And I, first of all, say that my dad was a

Cub Scout leader. He loved the whole institution of scouting.

I don't even know if he was aware of the things that had occurred in the

Boy Scouts of America. Obviously, as you've already said, these things have gone back to the 1920s, at least.

But my dad was a beloved figure in the community as a Cub Scout leader.

I was a Cub Scout and a Weblo, or as some pronounce it, Weeblo. I quit scouting not because of anything horrible that happened to me, but in fact, it was more because of my own interest in tragically drinking alcohol to excess and smoking pot and things like that, that compelled me to just give up on scouting out of boredom with it.

But I have nothing negative to report about scouting other than there were some occasions when older kids, older teenagers, two to five years older than me, they would try to, nothing like what you are talking about and not the victims in this documentary, but they would intimidate, terrorize, frighten kids younger than themselves.

That seemed to be almost a routine thing that I remember in scouts, not to the extent of physically or anything like that.

But I just wanted to mention that for my dad, scouting was all positive.

What I have kept hearing for decades from people who had him as a scoutmaster, they raved about him and his work with children, his love for children, and all of that.

But in your opinion, from what you have learned, Bill, what has the

Boy Scouts of America done that is right and good in response to these revelations?

Obviously, there was a time when they were covering them up. I don't know how far into the present day that perpetually was happening, but what good have they done in response to this?

And if any, what mistakes are they continuing to make, in your opinion? I know they have formed,

I know they now train their leaders in this area, and they have stricter policies about being alone with boys.

And they certainly have, they have certainly changed their attitude.

I think some of my fellow survivors who were more involved in the

Boy Scouts and are in more contact with the Boy Scouts would say that there are still experiences where the

Boy Scouts' individual chapters don't necessarily want to deal with this, aren't as open about it as they wish they were.

So whether it's the Boy Scouts or a church or a school or any other youth organization, some of the primary things you can do is, if you have a situation, be completely open.

Don't think about the reputation of the church or the scouting organization. Be open that something has happened.

Be open that it's being investigated. Be open that kids are going to be protected. Give people the chance to trust again.

And I think one of the things the Boy Scouts probably have tried to do but need to continue to work on is openness and letting the population really have trust in them again.

Ronald in Eastern Suffolk County, Long Island asks, in faced with all this evidence about how pedophilia is in nearly every institution and realm of our existence, how do we prevent ourselves from being dominated and enslaved by paranoia and fear over this issue and perhaps take this out on our children by isolating them to a far too great degree where we're actually damaging our children psychologically?

Is that a question for me? Yeah, I guess you could just always assume that you would be the first to answer because Latane is acting as my co -host today.

So I've raised two daughters. Now I have grandchildren. And being aware of this because of my personal experience and being sort of educated in it while they were growing up,

I think if a parent or a leader is prudent about where their kids go, who they stay overnight with, using good common sense and judgment and keeping an eye on your kids and the leaders of any activities that they join in, those common sense steps go a long way.

I personally, however, didn't necessarily trust someone because they were a relative.

I didn't necessarily trust every family that invited my daughters to stay overnight.

I wanted to get to know them. I wanted to see they had a healthy relationship with their kids and the type of thing that would reassure me that that type of stuff wasn't going on in that home.

And I think you can apply that to churches or scouting or youth groups.

If kids are responding well and have a good relationship with a leader and there's not some of the signs of abnormality,

I think it's probably a safe organization. But keeping your guard up is never a bad idea without being paranoid, but being careful and prudent.

We have an anonymous listener who says, pedophilia is a sin that can also be covered by the blood of Christ through his atoning death and resurrection.

How do we extend mercy and grace and compassion to the perpetrators of this crime?

Perhaps they are released from prison out on parole and they are repentant and seeking a connection with a solid church and seeking a life with Christ.

How do we invite them into our community knowing of their background? I think that's an excellent question.

In fact, I have at least one pastor friend who informed me of this very thing occurring.

And by law, they had to notify the entire congregation of this person's identity, which normally you wouldn't do with other sins and crimes.

And that person was welcomed with the understanding that this was something necessary and right and good for the protection of the children in the flock.

And the person voluntarily went along with this. So how else should churches behave when it comes to something like this?

Bill? I would say very, very carefully.

In my specific view, someone with a background like that who wants to come to a church is somewhat akin to an alcoholic walking into a bar.

Because if there are kids running around and available and accessibility, that is a concerning temptation.

I think having them attend an adult Bible study or that type of group is great.

I think if they're coming to a church on a Sunday morning, if you're going to allow them, and I'm very careful about that,

I would literally assign a host to them and ask them to stay with that person while they are on the property.

Because it's such a high recidivism rate of pedophiles that it's very dangerous.

Yeah. In fact, the pastor that told me about this said they did all of those things, and they instructed the person that they are never to sit with children and all of that kind of thing.

But anyway, Latane, you were just about to ask something. No, I have. I have some wonderful news.

Dr. Beth Robinson is right at the point of publishing a book called The Predator in My Pew.

And it comes out of her extensive experience with this kind of situation.

And it poses the question, how do you offer grace and mercy to someone who is really trying to overcome their sin without making them the bartender in the bar?

You know, which is exactly what Pastor Bill said. And this book is so valuable because it actually has documents like contracts that you provide that are provided for someone for a church to be able to sit down and discuss with someone who wants to attend church exactly what parameters are there so that they know ahead of time.

We would love to have you in our fellowship, but not at the way that we could offer it to other people because you have a problem that you have to be protected against.

You yourself have to be protected from yourself. And we're going to do that for you if you want to come. And so this book,

Pastor Bill, you will love this book because it takes a lot of guesswork out of how to handle that kind of situation, and in some ways kind of weed out the people that are just trying to gain a system, you know, as predators do, just to gain access.

And so, Chris, I will get you more information about this,

Pastor Bill. I'd love to have contact information for you. I'm sure Chris can provide it.

But this book is actually a godsend for that kind of situation.

And it's not yet in print? It's not yet, but I mean, we're like weeks away from it being produced.

She's self -publishing it just to get it out. But the documents in it, for instance, are not copyrighted so that a church can duplicate these documents and use these documents in it.

It's just a great book. Oh, great. Well, we're going to our final break right now. If you have a question of your own for Pastor Dudley or our co -host,

Dr. Latane C. Scott, our email address, again, is chrisarnson at gmail .com. chrisarnson at gmail .com.

As always, give us your first name at least, your city and state of residence, and your country of residence if you live outside of the

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Welcome back, and Pastor Bill Dudley, I'd like you to, now before we run out of time, make sure that you summarize what you most want etched in the hearts and minds of our listeners when it comes to this subject, when it comes to this documentary, etc.

It's well worth watching, whatever your position is as a parent, grandparent, person who works with children professionally or as a volunteer, and theologically speaking, a thing that our enemy the devil will do to harm children and to drive a wedge between them and God is pedophilia, child sexual abuse.

It destroys kids and is harmful in every area of life, and spiritually is one of them, which we didn't fully address, but watch the documentary.

It's very educational on how pedophiles operate, so if we know our enemy, we can defend ourselves.

Now, in about a minute and a half, because we do have a little bit of time, could you summarize some of those spiritual effects to a crime like this, or from a crime like this?

So, the main character in the documentary, Aaron, grew up in the

Christian church. Two services on Sunday, prayer meeting on Wednesday. His mother was the organist.

He was a kid with a lot of faith. He attended youth group as a pastor, and his friend, it breaks my heart, because the question he had as he was being raped was, why is

God allowing this to happen to me? Where is God? Why isn't he protecting me?

And he remembers begging God for protection, and it didn't come.

So, what does that do to the faith of a kid? Aaron's a wonderful guy, who's still sort of spiritually searching, but he's an agnostic.

And Dr. Latane C. Scott, any final words? I just want to express my respect for Pastor Bill, for the way that he got involved in his community, that this offered resources, and still offers resources, and this movie is a terrific resource, as he said, for not only people that have children, but are in any positions of authority, or involved in any organization, so that you kind of can become aware of what to watch for.

Thank you, Pastor Bill. I really, really honor and appreciate you. Thank you,

Latane. I appreciate you. And Chris, I also want to say thank you so much, as a radio broadcaster in the

Christian world, for giving this topic a lot of attention. It's so vital, and you're a pioneer in doing that, so I'm deeply grateful for you doing this.

Thank you. Well, the honor is all mine, and I am deeply grateful for you being willing to participate today.

And I know that earlier, I gave a very long and complicated website

URL for the church where you pastor. Could you please give us the shorter version of it?

It's sofox .org. Okay, and don't forget about the website to find out more about the documentary that we have been discussing,

Boy Scouts Honor. That website is very easy to remember, boyscoutshonor .com,

boyscoutshonor .com. I want to thank you so much, Pastor Dudley, for doing such a wonderful job as a first -time guest in this program.

I look forward to your return to this broadcast. I send my personal greetings to your sons -in -law who have told you they love this show, and I love hearing that.

I did not know that before the broadcast, that that was the case. And latane .com

is the website for my co -host today, Dr. Latane C. Scott. L -A -T -A -Y -N -E .com,

and you can find out all about other books that she has written, and her poetry, and many other things.

It's always a joy to have you as a part of this broadcast, Latane, my friend of many years.

Well, thank you both. I want to thank everybody who listened. I want to thank everybody that took the time to send in questions, and I want you all to always remember for the rest of your lives that Jesus Christ is a far greater