December 27, 2022 Show with Bill Dudley on “A Pastor Who Was a Drive-By Victim of a Sexual Predator of Children in the Boy Scouts Speaks Out”

Iron Sharpens Iron Radio Introduction and Christmas Reflections

Live from historic downtown Carlisle, Pennsylvania, home of founding father, James Wilson, 19th century hymn writer, George Duffield, 19th century gospel minister, George Norcross, and sports legend, Jim Thorpe.

It's Iron Sharpens Iron. This is a radio platform in which pastors, Christian scholars, and theologians address the burning issues facing the church and the world today. Proverbs chapter 27, verse 17 tells us, iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another.

Matthew Henry said that in this passage, we are cautioned to take heed with whom we converse and directed to have a view in conversation to make one another wiser and better. It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next two hours, and we hope to hear from you, the listener, with your own questions.

And now here's your host, Chris Arnzen.

Good afternoon, Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida, and the rest of humanity living on the planet Earth who are listening via live streaming at ironsharpensironradio .com. This is Chris Arnzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Tuesday on this 27th day of December, 2022.

I trust everyone listening had a glorious Christmas celebration with those that you love. And if you didn't, I pray that our Lord, our merciful Lord will minister to your heart and mind nonetheless. And I know what it's like to have a sad Christmas and a sad Thanksgiving and a sad Easter having lost my wife, my precious late wife, Julie, who's been in eternity with Christ for a little over a decade now.

So I know what it can be like to be sad during these very precious holidays. So my heart goes out to you if you are among the number that were sad during this holiday season. But today we have on the program a first-time guest and a returning guest who's actually serving as a co-host with me today.

My first-time guest today is Bill Dudley, and he is a pastor of Union Church of South Foxborough, Massachusetts. And he's also featured in a very important documentary about sexual abuse in the Boy Scouts titled Boy Scouts Honor.

And Pastor Bill is going to be addressing a pastor who as a child was a drive-by victim of a major sexual predator of children in the Boy Scouts speaks out. And first of all, it's my honor and privilege to welcome you for the very first time ever to Iron Trip and Zion Radio, Pastor Bill Dudley.

Thank you, Chris. I'm happy to be with you today. It's an important topic.

Amen, and I'm thrilled to have you on the program and I was thrilled to hear from Pastor Dudley right before the program began to air live that two of his sons-in-law are big fans of the Iron Trip and Zion Radio program, so I hope that they are listening today.

We have, as I mentioned, a returning guest who is actually primarily a co-host with me today due to the fact that she wrote two books, co-authored two books that are very much related to our subject today.

Her name will be very familiar to most Iron Trip and Zion Radio listeners. Her name is Dr. Latane C. Scott, a former Mormon and convert to biblical Christianity and the author of many books, including Protecting Your Child from Predators and Talking with Teens About Sexuality.

And it's my honor and privilege to welcome you back to Iron Trip and Zion Radio, Dr. Latane C. Scott.

Always a privilege to be on your show, Chris. Thank you.

And Pastor Bill, before we get into your salvation testimony, which is a tradition here on Iron Trip and Zion Radio for first-time guests, tell our listeners about Union Church of South Foxborough, Massachusetts.

Well, we're a small evangelical church non-denominational. We have a great history going back to 1876, where we were begun actually by Quakers. Today, we have a growing ministry and we do a lot of stuff with people in recovery, people who are suffering from various types of substance addictions.

And it's pretty exciting to see people's lives changed and desperation give way to hope.

Amen. And it was founded by Quakers. How would you describe the church theologically today, Union Church of South Foxborough?

I would describe, we're biblical, biblical church, sort of mainstream biblical theology. I'm a Gordon Conwell person, a Billy Graham person, so we would sort of fit into that mold. Hello, one old saying that's kind of stuck in my head is that Union Church, we sometimes have one of everybody.

Well, if anybody wants to find out more about this congregation, you can go to sofox .n, as in Nebraska, M as in Michael, dash secure .com. That's S-O-F-O-X dot N-M dash secure .com and we'll be repeating that later on in the program.

And now, as I already alluded to, since you are a first time guest, I'd like you to continue our tradition here on Iron Trip and Zion Radio by providing our listeners with a summary of your salvation testimony that would include the kind of religious atmosphere, if any, you were raised in and what kind of providential circumstances our sovereign Lord raised up in your life that drew you to himself and saved you.

Well, that's an interesting, I'm always surprised to be sitting where I am and doing what I'm doing. When I grew up, we did not, my family did not go to church. Before my 18th birthday, there were probably four or five times in all those years growing up that we went into a church.

When I was a teenager, I became conscious of what I didn't realize then, but of course I do now with sort of a spiritual hunger. You know, we all have a spiritual, whoever we are created by God, whoever we are, whatever person we are in the world, we have a space in us placed there by our creator that only God can fill.

And we try to fill it with alcohol, we try to fill it with money, we try to fill it with popularity or fame, and none of those things are satisfying. And in my case, as a teenager, it was alcohol, and I was a teenage alcoholic.

And I began to get desperate and say, I'm gonna die if I don't, if this situation in my life doesn't change, I'm not gonna survive. And I was aware that something was missing in my life. And I got out of high school, I had no direction, I began working in the local factory, and a guy was, within a month, transferred into my department.

I was 17 years old, this guy was 20. He rode a Harley, he wore a leather jacket and jeans, and it turned out he was a Christian. And I had a conversation with him that, I said to him, he said, are you a Christian?

I said, of course I am. He said, do you go to church? I said, no. He said, do you read the Bible? I said, that's for old women. He said, do you follow, do you know who Jesus is? And do you follow him?

And I said, no, he's just some guy that lived a long time ago. And he said, then how are you a Christian? And I was filled with questions, and I began going to him on breaks, and lunch, and after work, asking spiritual questions.

What I didn't know at the time, but now I do, were spiritual questions. Meanwhile, in Alcoholics Anonymous, they were telling me, if you wanna recover, God is the key to recovery. You have to develop a relationship with God, which is what Alcoholics Anonymous teaches.

Long story short, one night I got on my knees in my bedroom, 17 years old, and I prayed one sentence, and I had no idea what it meant. I had no idea what the cross meant. I had no idea what a savior meant.

I had no idea what sin was, but I prayed and said, okay, Jesus, from now on, I'll do it your way, amen. And I stood up a different person, and that was the seeing the light moment for me.

Praise God, and I'm so glad that Christian, that motorcycle-riding Christian asked you those questions, because in today's modern evangelical world, sadly, you would very rarely hear someone challenge a person with that strong language of basically insisting on repentance, and insisting on a evidence that somebody is truly in love with Christ and following him.

You have those who would just merely have you recite a prayer, and they would just take that mimicked or echoed prayer as the only evidence they needed, that you were truly born again, but this man was looking for real evidence that you were bearing fruit, and you were not, and so I'm glad that he challenged you in that strong way.

When was it that you realized you had a call from God to enter into pastoral ministry?

I'm still wondering about that question. I began going to church with my sister, although I was by then 18, to a local church here. I began going to youth group. I loved doing it. The pastor's wife was in charge of it.

She asked me to help with younger kids, junior high kids, and I did, and I so enjoyed being with the kids and sort of doing ministry. I just sort of, I went to college, got a religion degree, went on to seminary.

I just never really left it, and I still go to youth group all these years later.

Well, I am delighted, as I said, that you, by God's providence, are my guest today, and by the way, I wanna remind Dr. Latane C. Scott, my co-host, that she does not need to wait for me to ask her to participate with her own questions.

As soon as you have a question and there's a lull in the conversation, you can immediately voice that question, since I'm not gonna always be looking at my screen and seeing your face and so forth, so whenever you have a question, you may feel free to chime in, because your questions will likely be the most valuable in this discussion due to your having been the author, the co-author of Protecting Your Child from Predators, especially, but this documentary, Where I Discovered You, Pastor Dudley, Boy Scouts Honor, which you can find out more about it, folks, at boyscoutshonor .com is the website, but I watched this documentary and you were the only evangelical Bible-believing Christian who participated in the documentary, and I immediately, during this documentary, while viewing it, said, I've got to get Pastor Dudley on my program, so tell us about the major outline of this documentary and the hideous crimes that took place among not only yourself, and you, as you will give more detail momentarily, will make it clear to our audience that the crime against you was clearly not as vile and repulsive and criminal as what happened to the other boys, who are now men, interviewed in this documentary, but tell us a basic outline so our listeners understand what Boy Scouts Honor, the documentary, is all about.

The Boy Scouts Perversion Files and Institutional Cover-Up

So the director, Ash, really wanted to explore the story across the country of the perversion files the Boy Scouts kept, which is when the Boy Scouts, beginning in the 1920s, had a file of pedophiles, they had a record of pedophiles from all across the country with thousands of names in it, and they kept this.

So if someone were a pedophile in a particular geographical area in the Boy Scouts, they could be prevented from continuing to serve in that area, but what they never did was prevent the person from moving to a new area and serving, and what they also never did was report it to law enforcement or in any way warn the public about these leaders who were wolves in sheep's clothing.

Sounds like a mirror or really nearly an identical story to what has occurred within the Roman Catholic Church, even for centuries, with the added evil of what the Roman Catholic Church did is they not only did not prevent pedophile and child-abusing priests from relocating, they sent them to different parishes intentionally, knowing of their background, but quite an interesting similarity, and it also might be amazing to our listeners that this goes back in the history of the Boy Scouts, as you said, to the 1920s, which many people today may naively think, oh, that didn't happen back then, but obviously it did.

Well, the thing I

Thank you, Bill.

Yes, ma 'am.

Something that I learned from the documentary that I wasn't aware of was that many of these predators were so clever that they would change, slightly change the spelling of their own names and to reapply for positions if they'd kind of gotten on the radar of the Boy Scouts, not that apparently the Boy Scouts of America did much about it, but if they thought that they were on the radar that these predators would reapply with slight variations to their name or other contact information so that they were treated as a new person, you know, applying for the job.

I just, and that, I've known that predators are incredibly clever and manipulative, but I never thought of even that subtle a thing making such an impact.

They're incredibly clever in a lot of the manipulative tactics they use, both with adults, with the community, with how they present themselves as upstanding people, and of course, you know, tactics they use with kids.

If you don't let me do this, I know where your little brother goes to school, that type of stuff. So you're right, they're incredibly clever at sliding below the radar.

And this documentary primarily focuses upon one scout master who was a prominent member of the community in which he lived. Why don't you tell us more about this man who was apparently highly respected and even beloved by many in the community and didn't realize this dark satanic side.

So a gentleman, I shouldn't call him a gentleman, but the man was Bill Sheehan in Foxborough. He grew up in the town next to Foxborough, the town of Mansfield, Massachusetts. He was hired as a teacher in the Foxborough Public Schools, I believe in 1961, and developed in that time as a teacher.

He taught in at least four of our local elementary schools. He taught, he also became a Boy Scout leader for 20 years. He was the primary leader in Troop 7 here in Foxborough, which was one of the two big troop organizations.

And when Foxborough bought some property and developed a swimming hole, a beach front, just a little small pond for kids to swim in, guess who became the waterfront director, the swim teacher, the guy who had absolute authority over the Ocasset River Park.

It was the same Bill Sheehan. And the guy was a dynamo in our town. He was well known, he was well thought of. Town leaders, school, parents, Boy Scout people all fell under his sway. He's a very charismatic guy.

So tell us exactly how things progressed and how quickly they progressed upon your first meeting him and what it was that he did to you that you have described to me off the air as a grooming process, in your opinion, and also perhaps even Dr. Latane C. Scott can chime in after that, because apparently from what she said off the air also is that this is very common amongst pedophiles.

But if you could, Pastor Dudley.

So what pedophiles often have is what we call a preference there. And he was a preferential pedophile. He seemed to go after boys who were between seven and 10 to at least begin a relationship. He preferred small, skinny boys that most of us in comparing notes have figured out.

And what he did with me was, I was down at the waterfront, down at the beach. I went up to use the bathroom, which was in the same building as his office. And he called to me, Billy, and I didn't even know he knew my name.

He had given some swim lessons, but I had only been in a group of kids. But he said, Billy, let's go look for fossils. And I barely knew what a fossil was. I was probably nine years old and I was barefoot.

I had only a bathing suit on. And I said, I don't have any shoes, Mr. Sheehan. And he said, that doesn't matter, come on. And he led me off through the woods out to a sand pit that was nearby. And he turned over a couple of rocks, said, oh, I don't see any fossils.

Then he grabs me, he pins me down on the ground. He pins my arms with his knees so I can't defend myself in any way. Not that a nine-year-old boy has much chance against a grown man. And he sat on top of me and tickled me.

I don't know if it was for a minute, two minutes, three minutes, but I couldn't even breathe. I was laughing so hard, I'm very ticklish. All five of my grandchildren know that to this day. And I was begging him to stop.

I have no idea if he put his hand in my private area or what he did to me, but when he was all done, he just got up and said, well, let's go back. So that was my experience, which I label a drive-by and maybe Latane wants to comment on it as grooming behavior, which is what I think it is.

Yeah, of course, I will depend very heavily on the clinical and experiential expertise of my co-author, Dr. Beth Robinson, who deals daily with abused children. Tickling is kind of a form of torture because it takes complete control away from a human being.

And because they're laughing, it seems like it might be funny. But to the person being tickled, they don't regard it as funny. It's, as you described, and especially with someone sitting on top of you, you're expelling all that air, laughing, and you can't expand your lungs to get it back in.

And I can't imagine how horrific that must have been for you. I'm so sorry that happened. But tickling and other things are often used as precursors, Dr. Beth says, to kind of test the waters with a child, that if the child will allow them any kind of physical contact like that, they will kind of judge whether or not they think the child can be further developed for other things.

And in the movie, which I just, I really want the Iron Sharpens Iron people to, listeners, to do what I did. I rented the movie, I'm going to buy it. I rented it on Amazon. And it is, it's such a powerful movie because one of the things that, one of the experts said, and I'm so sorry I don't remember her name, but it was a woman who's, like Dr. Beth, has dealt with many people.

She said, grooving is a non-violent interaction between a predator and his prey. And it's, and I think the reason she said non-violent is it's not rape, it's not the end game. It is something to kind of assess and to develop a dependency of the child on the adult.

And I don't know if you had this experience, Pastor Bill, that another one of the people in the documentary said that he was rewarded by this predator by giving increased amounts of responsibility and honor in the Boy Scout community and in that little camp, being given leadership roles and that sort of thing, even though he wasn't quite really old to have done that.

Is that something that happened to you in the grooming process? Were you, did he give you any rewards of any sort?

So I was not actually a Boy Scout, but I can say, so you're referring to my dear friend, Aaron Eberhardt, who was the victim, who was the primary subject of the documentary, who, when the predator, Sheehan, left Foxborough, he targeted kids in Fort Myers, Florida.

But I can say that other kids who were Boy Scouts, particularly Kevin, who's in the documentary, he did the same tactic of offering rewards and promotions within the Boy Scouts, making them feel special, which is a typical predatory tactic, make the kid feel like they're obligated to put up with this behavior because after all, they're getting rewarded in these other ways, which to a kid in Boy Scouts or church or any other setting is very important to them.

Now, one thing I wanted to just chime in about to clarify what Dr. Scott just said, and I'm sure, at least very confident, Latane would agree with me and you as well, Pastor Bill, that it is completely acceptable and even, I think, endearing and precious for a father or mother to tickle their child, that in that case, it would not be in any way, shape or form a method of torture.

But a lot of this, or all of this, where it crosses the line from something that a child will lovingly remember for the rest of their lives, perhaps, in regard to their playtime with their own parents, what makes it different is who is doing it to a child and why they are doing it.

Would you agree with that, Dr. Scott?

That's a very good point, and I'm glad that you brought that up because there are many things, for instance, a parent holding a child close is very different than a predator holding a child close. Tickling, mild tickling and giggling between parent and child is normal and healthy and good as long as the child is not made uncomfortable by it.

And of course, children rarely are when it's just their parents doing it mildly. So that's a good point. I'm really glad you pointed that out.

Yeah, and I've also never seen a loving parent pin a child down to the ground with their knees, obviously, and their shoulders, which is a lot more aggressive than the kind of play and interaction that parents have with their children.

And we're gonna be going to our first break right now. If anybody listening has a question for Pastor Bill Dudley or even my co-host, Dr. Latane C. Scott, co-author of a book that has a lot to do with our discussion today, Protecting Your Child from Predators, our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com, C-H-R-I-S-A-R-N-Z-E-N at gmail .com.

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And I could readily understand this theme evoking questions from listeners who do have very intimate and private and personal questions that it compels them to remain anonymous. And that's a no-brainer with this subject.

But if you're just asking a general question, please give us at least your first name, your city and state, and your country of residence. Don't go away, we're gonna be right back right after these messages.

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That's royaldiadem .com, royaldiadem .com. And we are now back with Pastor Bill Dudley of Union Church of South Foxborough, Massachusetts, who is featured in the documentary Boy Scouts Honor. We are addressing the theme, a pastor who, as a child, was a drive-by victim of a major sexual predator of children in the Boy Scouts, speaks out.

And we have as our cohost today, Dr. Latane C. Scott, who is the co-author of Protecting Your Child from Predators and Talking with Teens about Sexuality and many other books. If you have a question, send it to chrisarnzen at gmail .com, chrisarnzen at gmail .com.

Give us your first name at least, city and state, and country of residence. You may remain anonymous if it's a personal and private question. And Pastor Bill, when this was occurring to you, when this tickle episode of the man who would later be revealed as a bonafide sexual predator, what were your thoughts?

Did you actually think that he was trying to sexually molest you? Did you just think it was weird? Did you think it was funny? What was going on in your mind?

So I'm nine years old and really didn't have any sense of what sexuality was. So that didn't cross my mind at all, but he had a very disturbing smile on his face. Latane used the word torture and I think that was accurate and I think he was getting some sort of perverse pleasure out of it.

And because of that, I felt certainly that this was really weird, that an adult I barely knew was doing this. It was weird to me that all either of us had on were swimsuits and I was terrified, terrified that this adult against my will with no other trusted adult around to help me was completely rendering me powerless to defend myself by sitting on top of me.

It was a very strange experience.

Now, lest anybody think that this documentary is solely based on the evidence of what had occurred to Pastor Dudley, you'd be mistaken to assume that that could be interpreted a number of ways by people who hear about that incident and no one should automatically with certainty conclude that a child molester did such a thing to a child.