Statement on Social Justice with Josh Buice | Rapp Report Weekly 0026 | Striving for Eternity

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All righty, we have a special announcement to the special announcement. You're going to hear a podcast that was recorded back

00:08

Some time ago a couple weeks ago when we were going to drop and release the statement on social justice and you'll see her throughout this podcast that we're referring to it as having

00:21

You're going to drop on The 20th of August I think was the original date and what had happened was

00:29

I some may even heard the original because this dropped early Accidentally it dropped on a

00:35

Friday when it was supposed to go on a Sunday and the reason that caused some issues is because there were some folks that still want to do some tweaking in the language of the

00:44

Statement and so that has been done and the statement is now

00:49

Released and you can go to the website that we refer to we say it's going to drop Well, it has now dropped and so you'll be able to go there read the statement

00:58

Hopefully agree with the statement and sign the statement in agreement. And so that is some

01:05

Changes that we ended up having to do. So when this originally dropped we had to pull it back So with that I'll also give you an announcement for folks listening that Matt slick from calm

01:16

Christian apologetics research ministry and I who used to do a live apologetic show together will be starting up again

01:23

We are going to be doing this on Thursday nights. No longer on Sunday nights. We're gonna do this on Thursday we are going to be starting this in the end of September on Thursday the 27th and so the 27th 8 o 'clock

01:39

Eastern Time. This will be called apologetics live

01:46

And we will have a website called apologetics live .com You'll be able to go there get the links so that you can watch it interact with it

01:54

We'll have all the ways to join and ask your apologetics questions You want to challenge

02:00

Matt or I on things that we believe will be glad to address that what this show is going to be doing

02:06

Is as it we did in the past several years ago when we used to do this for several years We not only do the apologetics by taking on atheists and folks who disagree with us but then afterwards we'll explain why we may matter

02:20

I asked the questions we did and did the Argumentation we made so you as maybe a new apologist can learn so without further ado

02:30

We're gonna give you the podcast that we had recorded some time ago with Pastor Josh Bice on the statement of social

02:37

Justice. Okay. We have a special episode today one that is so important that we pushed off What we originally had scheduled for this week's rap report because we have a very very special guest and this issue

02:52

We're gonna talk about is so important. Let me read to you what dr. John MacArthur wrote in a recent blog

02:57

He said quote over the years I have fought a number of polemical battles against the ideas that threaten the gospel this and Recent and surprisingly sudden detour in quest of quote social justice unquote is

03:12

I believe the most Subtle and dangerous threat so far unquote. That's what

03:17

John MacArthur says about this topic How are many evangelicals looking to address this?

03:24

We're gonna discuss that now Welcome to the rap report with Andrew Rappaport.

03:32

We provide biblical interpretations and applications This is a ministry of striving for eternity and a

03:38

Christian podcast community for more content or to request a speaker for your church Go to striving for eternity dot org.

03:46

All right. Well, we welcome you back to the rap report I am Andrew Rappaport striving for eternity and we have a special guest

03:52

Maybe you've heard of him if you have ever heard of or attended the g3 conference and folks sometimes wonder you know, what does g3 stand for because it seems like You know that G squared what what is that but we're gonna talk with none other than Josh Bice Who was the founder of the g3 conference, but we have something we're gonna talk about after we discuss g3

04:16

That's gonna be even more important. So Josh, welcome to the rap report and you're glad to be with you

04:21

And and I'm gonna test my memory. I'm not gonna go look this up, but G3 if I remember correctly was grace.

04:27

I think grace God and I'm throwing a blank on a third G, but Yeah, yeah, so it's like gospel grace and gospel, how can

04:36

I forget as an evangelist, how could I forget gospel? What kind of evangelist am

04:42

I shoot me Hey, I'm glad to have you on I've gotten to to meet you when

04:49

I've been at the g3 conference Which is a great conference. I enjoy I've been I've been there two years in a row and thoroughly enjoyed it

04:57

So how let's talk g3 first, why did you start that how'd that come about? Yeah, so the conference itself was burnt out of our local church.

05:06

They're just west of Atlanta, Georgia And so after I arrived there to serve as pastor

05:11

One of the other elders and I started talking about wouldn't it be great to have a good theology conference in the

05:17

Atlanta area? So we started, you know working through the ideas of what that looked like it ended up Crafting a plan to do sort of like a month long

05:27

Conference, but it was just on Monday evening So before consecutive Monday evening after we finished it

05:33

We kind of went back to the drawing board and look to see if we accomplished the goals and I was just bluntly honest

05:39

I thought that it was not successful I thought that it was very much not hitting all of the areas that we wanted to try to Accomplish in the original plan.

05:48

And so we went back to the drawing board and prayed and just asked for God's You know wisdom and clarity and from that we

05:55

I just posed the idea that we would start a conference It would be a weekend conference. So the

06:01

Thursday through Saturday And we would take a theme every year and you know Just try to keep everybody together instead of spreading it out over an entire month.

06:10

And so 2013 we This conference known as the g3 conference

06:17

We wanted it to be know when people asked us what it stood for that It was based, you know on a robust theological position

06:24

And so it was not a pep rally for Christians or anything like that. And so 2013 we chose the theme of the gospel and we ended up thinking that you know

06:35

We might have 200 people max that would come and to our surprise that December for the

06:41

January conference It was completely sold out in our congregations at the church campus we can only see in our worship center about 700 to 750 and so We were sold out with waiting lists had college students sleeping in the parking lot and in January Yeah, and so I was like no you're gonna come to our home and stay there

07:02

So we brought them to our home and let them sleep in at least a warm bedroom but but the fact is

07:07

God really just did something quite different than what we had planned from the beginning and he turned it into like a

07:12

National conference because people did not come just from the southeast from the Atlanta area They came from all over the

07:18

United States and outside of the United States And that was really the pattern for the first four years and then leading up to the 2017 conference

07:26

I posed the idea that we would pray about moving it off of our church campus to a convention center over near the

07:32

Atlanta Airport for the Reformation conference so we did that in 2017 went from 750 to 2 ,500 the first year that we moved last year we had just under 3 ,000 and this year we could hit 4 ,000.

07:46

I mean, it's just it's just really Mind -boggling to consider how

07:51

God has grown the conference I have people occasionally Andrew that will call me or email me and they're like, hey, man, can we get lunch or coffee?

07:59

I just want to kind of figure out like what they're really asking for is like the secret sauce like How did you do this?

08:06

Like can you give me the blueprint, you know that type of thing? I just I'm just bluntly honest with them

08:11

Just a little bit. I don't have any of that kind of stuff that I could share with them. It might be successful This is just simply a conference that we prayed about doing and God really did all of it

08:21

And so I don't have like this this special secret for success when it comes to conferences

08:26

Well, I think I think the secret probably would be you have a tremendous number of speakers

08:32

I don't know of a conference that has as many speakers Top -notch speakers that that you have all in one place speaking

08:39

There's there's so many breakout sessions that you have it's I think really what is the evangelical church in America is is so Starving for biblical teaching that may get all of these great speakers in one place.

08:54

Everyone wants to be there Yeah, you know, I think that you're hitting on something there I think that there is a definite hunger for sound biblical theology and we found that to be true as we've talked to people through The years at the conference and so, you know what if the g3 conference can be used of God to you know

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Help encourage and equip people in sound biblical theology and send them back to their local churches

09:15

Encouraged in the faith and do that with pastors and missionaries and pastors wives and people like that Then you know praise

09:23

God for that. So that's what we're seeking to accomplish and and for folks who don't know I mean, I've had the privilege of seeing some of the behind the scenes of Conferences I run but even some of g3 it is a ton to put together

09:34

There's a lot of running around you don't really get to enjoy much of it probably because you're usually running around Solving problems for people but yeah, you did see that like with Justin's breakout session last year that So, I mean we have just have problems and thankfully,

09:50

I mean we have like you that just stepped up to the plate and help I mean, but you know You can't control things when it's not on your church campus and you're relying on, you know

09:58

People who work for the Convention Center itself, but yeah, I mean, I would say that it's a joy.

10:04

It's a privilege It's an honor to serve so many people But it is definitely a lot of work

10:10

And so I don't get the privilege to just come and take in the conference So I typically go to like Shepard's conference somewhere like that just be able to really enjoy a conference

10:19

That's you know, people think that my favorite events would be one of the conferences that striving for attorney puts on they're not

10:26

I get to enjoy those. I'm running around making sure everything works, right? I enjoy

10:32

Shepard's conference g3 somewhere else. Yeah So so this year g3 g3 is gonna be on missions right and so that's that's a great topic

10:44

I think a lot of Christians think when they think of missions they think all those people who go overseas and We support them through our church so that they could share the gospel or build homes for someone in a third world country

10:56

I tend to think of missions is what every Christian should be doing Right the

11:02

Great Commission. Oh, yeah We make be making disciples where we are now some of us go overseas

11:08

But not all of us and I think that's what g3 ends up doing for a lot of folks I think a lot of people go because they're hungry for the

11:15

Word of God and people don't understand Conferences like g3 you have like that the top 1 % of people who are really looking to grow in their spiritual life

11:25

In all the churches around the country all coming to one place and people are always like why can't church be like this every week?

11:31

It's because you're all gathering It's all the people that are people that are willing to travel the country to go to a conference like g3

11:37

They're looking to be spiritually fed so when they get together with everyone else that looking to be spiritually fed the same way it creates such a

11:45

Atmosphere of joy and Spiritual development that you know for folks who don't attend a conference like g3.

11:52

They they can't understand it. Yeah Yeah, I think you're right I think I think Paul Washer framed it very well when he said that you know coming to a conference like g3 is something like A foretaste of heaven on earth just a little piece a sliver of great joy that we get to engage with one another but to Be quite honest.

12:08

It's not the local church It's not to replace the local church, and we don't have the messiness and the difficulty of personalities and sin and confrontation

12:17

And discipline and all of the ebb and flow of regular church life It's like going on vacation and staying in a guest house someplace

12:25

I mean you don't have to look at the problems that you have around your own home But when you return home, you still see that that wall that needs to be painted

12:32

You see you know the different issues that need to be dealt with and so that's the way it works for a conference I mean it can be a really

12:40

Encouraging thing to take in but it's not something that should ever or could ever replace the local church.

12:46

That's right I mean, it's a great place for feeding, but it is not where you should be spending all your time

12:51

I mean it we need to take what we learn from g3 and bring it back to our churches So that we could take what we've learned and help others to grow

12:59

I mean that is the Great Commission right to make disciples teaching them all things that Christ has taught us

13:05

So as we learn we should teach All right. So let's let after this commercial.

13:11

I would I want to talk about the main issue We want to talk about something that's going on from from the time that we're recording this

13:16

Monday a Something special it's going to be happening. And so I want to pick that up right after this commercial

13:27

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But it is very wise to know what they believe and you will get Andrew Rappaport's book at what do they believe?

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calm The good news is striving for eternity would love to come to your church to spend two days with your folks

14:00

Teaching them biblical hermeneutics, that's right The art and science of interpreting scripture.

14:06

The bad news is somebody attending might be really upset to discover Jeremiah 29 11 should not be their life first to learn more go to striving for eternity org to host a

14:17

Bible Interpretation made easy seminar in your area. Okay. So Josh on Monday, August 20th

14:24

There's gonna be a special website that is gonna go live So if you're if folks are listening to this before then they're the site's not going to be live until Monday But I want to talk about this website.

14:36

The site itself is called statement on Social justice calm and so Josh what brought this about and who all's involved with this?

14:45

Okay. Yeah So over the course of the last couple of years I've been watching of course like many people just noticing a lot of really goofy things that people have been stating and writing

14:56

Preaching in conferences or stating in chapel services and a lot of this stuff centers under the umbrella

15:03

But we're hearing frames as social justice terminology social justice politics and so there's just a lot of ambiguity as to you know, what is social justice for instance and What does it entail that type of thing?

15:16

So as I'm listening to people make these statements at conferences leading all the way up and to like the recent

15:23

MLK 50 conference and that type of thing I was really burdened with the type of language that I'm hearing the type of open apologies that are being written and the statements that Are being you know made publicly about preaching a deficient gospel by very well -known individuals and authors and Conference speakers and so I just started talking to some friends and you know just basically felt the need to get a group of men together to have a

15:49

Conversation on what this this whole thing related to social justice actually is to try to diagnose it and then to try to work towards A solution so back in June we gathered in Dallas, Texas with a group of men and we just really tried to work through the issues

16:04

You know trying to listen to what people are saying looking at social media and conference sermons and things that people are

16:11

Stating and then trying to figure out how we can not only diagnose it and see the problem

16:17

But how can we really address it? how can we speak with a corrective tone but yet a tone of love at the same time and try to push back against this type of political agenda really and so Emerging from that meeting in Dallas was the idea that we would develop a website in a statement a theological statement with affirmations and denials where we would claim the idea of here's where we stand and then here's what

16:42

Reject so we affirm this and we deny this and then we would simply put it out to the

16:47

Evangelical world and say if you can agree with us on these issues Then please sign this this statement and stand with us on these matters and we hope that it'll be an encouragement to so many people

16:59

Who have been you know, really burdened and just asking questions about where this is coming from.

17:04

Where are we going? Why do we need to apologize for our skin color suddenly? Am I preaching a truncated gospel?

17:12

Am I guilty of not preaching the full counsel of God's Word and that type of thing? So really the statement is to provide some light and heat at the same time

17:21

Yeah, and and I you know men like for this group that got together in June. I mean people like dr John MacArthur Phil Johnson James White Vodie Bacchum yourself

17:29

I think even even Justin Peters and others got together to develop this. So this is not some just guys off the street

17:36

I mean, these are people who are theologians thinkers people who wrestle with these type of issues and wrestle with theology

17:44

So I think that this is something that we need to stand up and recognize if there's folks like this

17:50

They're saying this is an issue Especially when we consider what what dr. MacArthur said in his blog when when he said, you know he's he's talking about the fact that this may be the most dangerous threat from all of them and you think about the the inerrancy debates and all the others that have been going on that he has addressed over the

18:08

Years that he's been in ministry over almost 50 years now one church and yet and he says this he thinks is the most dangerous

18:16

Why do you think it is the most dangerous? Why do you think we have to address this? So yeah

18:21

Yeah, so Andrew, I think you're right when he makes that statement. I would I would agree with that I would think it's probably ranks up in the top

18:30

Issues that the church has faced in the last one or two hundred years and I think that that can be substantiated

18:36

Simply because of the fact that this is such a fluid agenda. It's such a it's such a

18:42

Difficult agenda to really put under your thumb So it's not like the inerrancy debate where you could just say, okay

18:48

These guys don't believe that the Bible is the Word of God So now you've framed the whole argument you understand at least at a superficial, you know

18:56

Level. Okay. This is the main idea now There were lots of different nuances under that but you could at least spotlight the main idea when you say social justice people don't really understand what you're talking about when you say

19:07

That the church needs to care for those who are oppressed Well, then that sounds very attractive to a lot of people especially the millennial population

19:15

Let's just be honest a lot of the Millennials want to buy a leather bag But they want to buy one that they know that 30 % of the profit has gone to build wells in the very community of which the bag was, you know manufactured and so you start thinking about the cause type of approach to millennial purchasing and you know that type of Idea that there's so much interested in supporting and then you think about throwing this idea of oppression

19:43

You know that certain people certain segments like different skin color people of color have been oppressed

19:50

So we need to apologize and we need to empower them women have been oppressed held back from flourishing in evangelicalism

19:57

So we need to apologize to them and empower them to the highest level of office in denominational life or local churches so that they can

20:05

Bloom for the glory of God all that sounds really good on the on the surface if we really have been oppressing these

20:13

Individuals, but really the question becomes have we oppressed these individuals and is the system really rigged in such a way to hold back certain people in our culture and so the whole social justice agenda is so dangerous because it really starts to bypass the sufficiency of Scripture and then it starts to import very dangerous political and cultural agenda on on to the or into the

20:42

Evangelical circles in religious clothing and so it can be very attractive and very dangerous at the same time

20:48

You know I've done a couple of podcasts on this issue of social justice did one with Darrell Harris when the there was an article that came out

20:55

I forget who wrote that at this time, but there was an article about black and white and there was

21:02

The other issues we dealt with on social justice and here's the thing. I'm always bringing it back to it

21:07

It comes back to the gospel. It comes back to who's defining the people that are being

21:13

Mistreated because I coming from my background my generation I grew up in a

21:18

Jewish home going to Hebrew school a generation after the Holocaust Should every person in America have to support me because you know

21:27

They didn't they didn't come and defend the Jews that were being murdered the Catholic Church actually funded it

21:33

Should every Catholic be are they at fault because they didn't do anything When you get to this trying to make rights make right for wrongs that were done by other people.

21:43

That's not biblical I mean it we don't punish someone else for a sin that another person does

21:49

And I think that trying to say that if you don't see that you're racist

21:54

Then you have a you're hidden It's you don't even recognize it is just a way of trying to argue to silence people in my name

22:02

Because there's there's really no answers. I've said this over and over again But if you want to end racism, the only way to end racism is to actually end racism

22:12

You will never end racism by using some sort of reverse racism. That doesn't end it.

22:17

It's still Firmly believe that this is the case at least in American culture as a whole the idea of racial reconciliation

22:26

And even I knew this is probably going to get a lot of negative Remarks, maybe from certain groups or segments, but even the civil rights movement as a whole

22:36

I think the end game was that there is no end. The end game is that there is no end at all

22:41

And so we we frame this idea that we're going to come as the hero to help

22:46

Organize a movement to help those who are oppressed and so what we do is we keep keep the different segments

22:52

We keep the different ethnicities Divided so as to keep the sympathy coming and the whole movement itself continues to roll forward

23:01

And it never really comes to a close because those who are seated in the positions of power Continue to be empowered by this system

23:09

So if they ever arrive at a cul -de -sac So to speak or if they ever arrive at the end and there is genuine unity that comes about then there is the end

23:17

And so I firmly believe that that same type of idea It might not be as devious or depraved in that sense

23:25

But the same model so to speak is now being used within evangelical circle day

23:30

So again, it's what some are calling like neo -marxism or cultural marxism

23:36

Gramscian Marxism is really what it is And so it's that it's that approach that divides up a culture into different segments of race class and gender and it tries to create

23:47

You know a sympathy movement and that sympathy movement is very lucrative. It's a business Let me give it let me put some weight to that by giving a quote from Booker T Washington he said this quote there is another class of colored people who make a business of Keeping the troubles the wrongs and the hardships of the

24:06

Negro race before the public having learned That they are able to make a living out of their troubles they have grown into the settled habit of Advertising their wrongs partly because they want sympathy and partly because it pays

24:24

Some of these people do not want the Negro to lose his grievances

24:29

Because they do not want to lose their jobs Unquote if you read

24:34

Barack Obama's book that he wrote before he was president before he ran for Senate He said he recognized the fact that as a black man and by the way

24:43

For the record Barack Obama was just as white if not more than black because he was raised in a white home

24:49

White mother and barely knew his his black father So when you when we realize this he said in his own book his own writings that he recognized that as a black man

25:01

Raised in a you know white neighborhood. He could get votes He would be able to run for Senate and his

25:08

Explanation was he would be able to hold that job for life being a black man able to reach out to whites

25:13

Yeah, absolutely And so that quote is it's extremely important as we frame this understanding and so you have this

25:20

Gramsci Marxism Which is exactly what that quote is driving at and then you have the reason that this is such a devious agenda so dangerous as John MacArthur has said it was or is it simply because of the fact that social justice not only encompasses the idea of racism that that whole idea of Continuing to keep the ethnicity divided all under the umbrella and the agenda of racial reconciliation

25:44

Like we're trying to unite everybody but really it's just keeping everyone divided like when you have a guy stand on a platform at an

25:51

Evangelical conference at the MLK 50 event and he gives a spoken word poem about dear

25:57

Mike Brown and he's slapping Votie Bauckham across the face without calling his name in the pole and he's just driving at this this harsh

26:07

Racism with this divisiveness, that's very unhelpful But then you go beyond this the social justice train not only has that shipping container

26:16

But the second shipping container is the idea of complementarism now we as conservative evangelicals for a long time have really held the line on the issue of the office of elder the responsibility of the local church to be led by Capable biblical men who are who are called to that office and then also

26:37

Again with the idea of different roles and responsibilities of both men and women although both created equal and as image bearers

26:45

There are distinct roles that are given to women that are not given to men and very distinct roles that are given to men that Aren't given to women.

26:52

This is not only true for the local church, but for society as a whole And so now suddenly there's this this this massive need to redefine

27:02

Complementarianism and so now we're having this conversation within the Southern Baptist Do we and should we allow for the election of a woman to serve as the president of the

27:11

Southern Baptist Convention? And you're having people like, you know Like Russell Moore and you know

27:16

Even former presidents of the convention, you know

27:26

The president of the Southern Baptist Convention, so now we're having to deal with that That's like what you call the second shipping container in the social justice train

27:33

But then the third that a lot of people aren't really noticing just yet But it's coming quickly and it really is the third shipping container on this train

27:41

And it's the whole idea that we have not only oppressed people of color and women, but we have also oppressed

27:48

LGBT Christians as well So we've seen that we've seen the recent revoice conference that was held at a

27:54

PCA Church in st Louis and the idea now is that we should allow

28:00

LGBT Christians, which by the way, there is no such thing. Amen Into the local church it to have a seat at the table in full membership status because they struggle with their sin

28:10

You might not struggle with but they're sinners and they they should be accepted into the life of the local church as well

28:16

And so these are issues that are all coming quickly. And so this is why this agenda is such a dangerous agenda

28:24

I don't remember at a time ever in the church where we had adulterous Christians murdering

28:30

Christians Rapist Christians lying Christian aren't they all just repenting of that and becoming

28:35

Christian? They were the those things and now they're yeah I mean, yeah, exactly I mean, what did the

28:40

Apostle Paul say he uses the past tense that such were some of you but you have been washed you

28:46

Have been cleansed you have been, you know redeemed by the blood of Christ. That's the idea And so, you know

28:52

Anytime and I said this on Twitter had some pushback But I think I stand behind what

28:58

I stated as it pertains to the whole idea of gay Christianity anytime that you allow for a dual title, you know or a dual identity so if you share like if you allow a

29:12

Hyphenated identity like so I'm a I'm a gay Christian. Well, eventually your sin

29:17

It's going to whisper in your ear and ask you to do away with this Jesus guy, you know Or if you say that I'm a

29:23

I'm a I'm a lustful Christian or whatever it might be Eventually your sin is is pretty soon is going to whisper in your ear to do away with this

29:33

Jesus And so you can't have light and darkness abiding together The scripture is abundantly clear that Satan and Christ are not linked together

29:43

And so we just cannot stand for this idea of LGBT Christianity or you know, like you've mentioned before, you know adulterers who are adultering

29:54

Christians and murderous Christians or whatever it might be. We just need to be clear We are Christians who have been called out of darkness into the marvelous light of Christ And I dealt with this on a recent podcast with the revoice conference because some of the guys that organize that are now trying to argue for Romantic celibate relationships where they live together

30:14

I don't know of a church where we would have someone even if they're engaged to be married heterosexual couple We would never at least in my church never allow them into membership if they're living together

30:24

Even if they're engaged even if they're planning to get married and they're saying but we're celibate We're not gonna do anything.

30:29

We would never do that because you it's like no you shouldn't be in that position of Temptation and and and the next step.

30:37

I think you're totally right. The next step is going to be to say It should be accepted. They keep trying to push the envelope and I find it amazing

30:45

It's always within Christianity and social justice warriors are not out there trying to push the envelope with Islam or Mormonism or any of those

30:51

It's always you know, the the true biblical gospel that they're going after I remember in the 80s late 80s early 90s.

31:00

I was in college I end up always having to explain this the history of this because it's

31:05

Bill asked Why was I reading a homosexual magazine? I was alone in college During Christmas break and the only person around with foreign students and my

31:11

RA Resident assistant came in very drunk one night wanted me to read something that he said he found in the in the janitor's closet

31:18

It was it was an article in a homosexual magazine I personally think he may have been a practicing homosexual and wanted to see if being the only other person on campus if something could happen but he knew

31:29

I was a Christian here's the interesting thing about the article the article was a game plan for how Homosexuality would be mainstreamed in in America in culture and they had a game plan

31:40

They said we have to be victims and we have to constantly be victims, but it's interesting They said we have to be victims of a group that won't actually attack us

31:48

And so they laid out a case why Christians would be that group They said Christians would never actually sue them never actually punish them never actually hurt them in fact

31:57

If their game plan works the Christians will actually further their cause and endorse them and they laid out an argument for playing the victim

32:04

Needing to be taught to have this taught in school so kids growing up would understand that this is just the way people are to argue that they have no control over this and Then to get people in politics that would push the agenda and Eventually go after the church to try to push that and that's the stage we're at and we're seeing this we're seeing people with it

32:24

They're trying to go after conservative churches conservative groups Like you mentioned the PCA to try to get them involved and now the

32:32

Southern Baptists I think are gonna be the next ones to get drawn into this to try to push an

32:37

Unbiblical agenda and here's the real issue I see with this and why I'm so supportive of this statement on social justice that's coming out on Monday August 20th at statement on socialjustice .com

32:50

The reason I think this is so important is I think this affects what the gospel message the church proclaims is

32:56

This is a core issue and the Christian should realize that God has clearly said there is no division between Jew and Greek free and slave male female when it comes to salvation

33:08

We the church are about the gospel presenting the gospel and reaching out to a lost world with the gospel not reaching out to a lost world to try to make them feel better about their sin or to reach out to a lost world to try to get them to like us more because I think that's

33:27

Underlying for many of these people what it really comes down to they're they're seeing a world that is attacking is

33:33

Getting more and more aggressive against Christianity and they want to be liked and and this is not new to history

33:38

This happened in World War two Nazi Germany you're growing up when I did and how

33:43

I did we would sit in Hebrew school and have we'd watch a lot of Films and documentaries and read lots of books about what happened in Nazi Germany They always amazed me as everyone in Germany said this couldn't be happening because we're too

33:57

Civilized and even though it's happening right under their nose and the thing is there were plenty of Jewish people that thought if they could even be

34:04

Members of the Nazi Party to be safe so that they would be protected get along with them

34:10

But once the Nazis got enough power, they were not safe They were thrown into the same concentration camps and I think for many of these people who want to go along with social justice because they want to go along with the world and the culture and and not feel that pressure and The world is not going to stop coming after them.

34:29

It's going to continue until the Christian gospel is silenced Well, you're right and you know, the problem with social justice is this very deficient foundation to begin with?

34:41

I mean, it's a bypasses the sufficiency of Scripture and the end the gospel of Jesus Christ And so this idea that you can bring about unity among a group of depraved sinners through political maneuvers

34:53

It's just completely unfounded biblically. And so that's one of the massive problems from the very beginning

34:59

And so now we're starting to see people use this idea of intersectionality as one of the main tools

35:06

And so Kimberly Crenshaw a woman that was basically a leftist liberal You know homosexual activist as back in the 80s

35:15

She actually coined this this term called intersectionality Basically, it was this idea that but if you're a woman in our culture you're oppressed just because of the fact that you're a woman and then if you happen to be a black woman then you are oppressed because of the color of your skin and also because of your

35:31

Gender and then if you happen to be a lesbian black woman now That's three areas three circles of oppression and where all of those three circles intersect is the greatest probability of oppression for that individual which is just so happens to be at the heart of who that Individual is according to Kimberly Crenshaw so that so so that whole idea of that leftist agenda is now being imported into Evangelicalism and we're starting to hear that type of language now to where we have to use that that political

36:03

Methodology to try to help the oppressed and I think it's very troubling I think the the issue that we end up seeing with this is that there really is no endgame as you mentioned earlier

36:13

What is it these folks hope to achieve what is the end when does this all stop

36:19

I don't think it does stop I think that what happens and I think that let's just be really honest.

36:24

I want to be clear here I think that you have some really really good people that are caught in the middle

36:29

So you have the social justice warrior type that's like really going after this thing on social media and they're really writing

36:37

You know articles that are very unhelpful and that kind of thing And then you have folks like myself or others who might be on the far other side of the ship who are saying no

36:46

We disagree with that and then you have the people that are kind of stuck in the middle and they're kind of caught like I Don't really understand this like I went to a conference expecting to hear something and I heard something quite different or I'm reading this person that I've trusted for so long and I'm starting to Notice this really deep sense of you know, political jargon and a commitment to a certain political

37:08

Ideology and so I think there's a lot of people in the middle that are just confused and I think that they're trying to Figure out what direction they should go

37:15

And so the purpose of this statement that's coming out on the 20th is just to try to help people

37:20

Understand that here's where we stand work We're planting a flag here and we think that we need to hold the line on some of these issues that are being pressed

37:29

Relentlessly pressed upon and so the endgame I think is that there is no endgame for those who are really in control

37:34

Now I do think that there is another agenda I think that from a political point of view when you get into the the back door of the political room

37:43

So to speak I think that there are conversations that are being had where you have people who are stating That you know, we need to deconstruct the hierarchy

37:52

We need to deconstruct the power structure And so this social justice agenda will remove people from certain key leadership

37:59

Positions and put into those seats the people that they want there to accomplish their political goals and their theological goal

38:07

And so I think that that's really one of the massive Goals for this agenda and and you know before we're gonna take a break in a bit

38:14

But before we do and I want to after that discuss the statement itself a bit But I think what we end up seeing with this not only is there they're kind of no no end goal for the warriors

38:24

But we as Christians we do have a concern for those who are the downtrodden a concern for those who are being unfairly treated and I think that's the appeal for many

38:33

Christians because for many of us we we want to Write wrongs and and protect the innocent

38:39

It's something that you know James says is true religion right taking care of the widows and the fatherless and so when we look at this

38:46

I think many Christians are are struggling because it sounds like something Christians should be involved with son

38:52

The church should be involved with so is this social justice Is this the church's mission or is the church's mission something else?

39:00

And how does this then affect the church's mission? Yeah, so I think it's not the church's mission I think that the church's mission has always been very clear from the beginning that we are to love the

39:11

Lord our God with all of our heart soul mind and strength and love our neighbor as ourself and We are to live out the gospel of Jesus Christ In can in a life

39:23

Individually that's in complete submission to Jesus. Jesus said if you love me keep my commandments and so we are to be very much living out our lives through the local church and under authority and we are to be engaged in both discipleship and Mission endeavors to make

39:44

Christ know now we take the gospel to the culture But we don't import the culture onto the gospel

39:50

And so where this becomes very tricky is this idea where you have a constant stream of language where people are just consistently stating

39:58

This is a quote -unquote gospel issue. Well, is it a gospel issue? I don't think it necessarily is a gospel issue

40:04

I think a lot of people are using gospel as a catchphrase or a certain type of Motivational term that they can try to catch people with because after all

40:14

I mean Christians are going to stand for the gospel, right? So you have that type of language where you have people that are stating that this is a gospel issue

40:22

So yeah I think that this can be dangerous because it does Twist the church's mission into something other than what

40:29

Jesus has commissioned us to do in the first place. That's right Right after this break I want to come back and I want to discuss the statement itself and what we can expect to see in that Can you prove that God is a

40:39

Trinity? Can you prove that Jesus is God? Can you defend the Christian faith and what is it that Christians truly believe the new book by Andrew Rappaport?

40:48

What do we believe will answer those questions and more some people just don't understand what the church is today

40:54

But this book will go through the history and meaning of the church What's more important than to understand man's sinfulness and God's salvation get your copy at what do we believe book .com?

41:04

Or at the striving for eternity org store. I actually think Josh that this is the problem We've lost an understanding of theology being taught in churches.

41:12

I mean, I think that you know The book that Tony just referred to it's a it's about theology people don't aren't as interested in theology

41:19

They used to be it's now we've passed it tell stories. It's more about How many how big their platform is on Twitter and Facebook or you know things like this rather than getting into the theology?

41:32

It just seems like there's such a drought of that. Yeah, I agree So, okay, so we have a statement that you guys put together as of today at the record when we're recording there's over 75 signers of this statement already and The statement on August 20th, that's

41:48

Monday This statement will go live. So if you're if you're hearing this before then you got to wait till Monday But afterwards go to statement on social justice .com

41:59

I will make sure that the link is in the show notes so that you can go there and read the statement and we would

42:05

Hope that you would be in agreement with the statement and that you would be willing to sign it

42:10

So I want to cover really quick I'm gonna go through the different topics that you guys have addressed that are covered in here

42:16

And then I'd like you to kind of go through just a high level What it is you're trying to point out in these and maybe actually we should just take each one

42:25

If we have time just take each one and we'll go through and there's I think a total of I'm trying to remember how many 14

42:33

I think so. So the first one you have is scripture. Good thing that that's first, right? Yeah, absolutely

42:38

So you why why that why did you feel a need to address the issue of scripture? Well, I mean if you take any theological statement worth its weight in salt

42:46

I mean you have you have typically an article at the beginning on scripture because it's our foundation

42:52

So we want to set forth this idea that we're not seeking to just ramble on about our own opinions in the other 13

42:59

Articles, but we stand unashamedly upon the Word of God. So scripture is our final authority

43:05

So we're going to be driven by scripture itself Now this is the one of the only ones that if I could tweak it a little

43:11

I would add one word and that is Where you say where it says it is inerrant infallible and the final authority for determining what is true

43:19

I would just like to add the word sufficient I would actually like to have a whole statement just on on sufficiency because that's really

43:26

I think an Underlying one of two underlying things that I think is the the problem with social justice is within the church

43:32

The issue is that people don't think the Bible is sufficient or as you put here the final authority

43:39

But it's not sufficient to answer the issues and we have to go to culture which you do address later culture

43:45

But I really think that the sufficiency is an underlying problem that we have It is and unfortunately, we're going to be judged by what we say what we don't say in this article it's going to be picked clean

43:55

It's going to be just poured over, you know to the to the nth degree But once again, we definitely want to spotlight scripture from the very beginning

44:05

Yeah, and we're not going to make everyone happy ever, right? Yeah, that's correct The second article you have is the image of God, you know, why why bring that one up?

44:14

What's what do you want to address with that? Well as it pertains to the idea of racism We need to make sure that we understand that every single human being all ethnicity

44:22

There's one human race by the way, and we're going to talk about that later, but there's one human race We all go back to Adam, but every one of us are are literally created in the image of God So beneath the color of skin, we're all the same as far as Biological makeup and so we are created in the image of God and that's with our you know

44:42

The totality of our human, you know existence And so we want to make sure that we understand that we believe that that's for both male and female and it's

44:52

And it's certainly for for every single ethnicity on planet Earth Now this one's kind of clear the third article is justice you kind of figure that's going to come up In a statement on social justice.

45:03

Yeah. Yeah So again, it just says we affirm that he is holy righteous and just God requires those who bear his image to live

45:11

Justly in the world and then it goes on and talks about we affirm that Societies at time must establish laws that correct

45:19

Injustices that have been imposed through cultural prejudice Okay So we recognize that that all the systems in the world that are going to be affected by sin because every system is made up by individual sinners

45:33

But what we're driving at is that God is the one who is the author of genuine justice and we don't need a social

45:39

Justice to replace God's justice And so, you know, we want to say we affirm this and we deny certain things

45:47

So we deny that true justice could be culturally defined or that merely socially constructed

45:53

Standards of justice can be opposed with biblical authority. So we don't want culture driving scripture.

46:00

We want scripture Addressing culture feminism. Well in the founding of this country was that scripture drove culture?

46:09

You know in the founding of this country even even the deists used to pretend to be Christians It was Thomas Jefferson would speak as if he was a

46:17

Christian right now We have Christians that speak as if they're ungodly from pulpits article number four

46:23

God's law In Closer to the phone.

46:45

Yeah. Yeah. Are you there? There you go. Yeah now now we can use them So more succinctly summarized in the two great commandments and manifested in Jesus Christ is the only standard of unchanging, right?

46:56

So we want to make sure that we're affirming, you know The great standard that God has set before us not what we think of as far as cultural standard because that's exactly the problem

47:05

That the Jews were getting themselves involved in they were trying to build a fit Surround God's law and they were trying to just add things to it to the point that it literally just became a burdensome thing

47:15

And it turned into a very legalistic approach to Self -righteousness basically and so we want to avoid that we think that the gospel is good news

47:25

And we think that Christianity should be full of joy And so the idea of social justice is in many ways importing a lot of cultural standards

47:33

Upon the Church of Jesus Christ that can be very troubled article number five is going to address the issue of sin

47:40

Why address that? Yeah, because I think we need to understand the definition of sin We need to understand what sin is and we need to understand, you know

47:48

The idea that we are held accountable for sin individually and we're not to be repenting of sin

47:55

Corporately and so we want to make sure that we affirm the biblical understanding of sin

48:01

That you know that we are culpable for another person and you make that clear in in the statement, especially in the what we deny section because This is this is really a central issue to what the social justice

48:16

Movement is trying to say is that whites and and we're seeing this within the church that whites in the church are

48:22

Responsible for things that generations of whites did long ago I mean, I I'm being told that I am responsible for slavery when no one in my family

48:33

Ever owned slaves my family, you know is Jewish roots that come from Russia and Romania There was no slaves of the

48:42

African slave trade that they were involved in they didn't promote it They didn't own slaves.

48:47

They had nothing to do with that in the generations of my family comes from So, how how would

48:53

I be responsible? How would I have some collective guilt over things that ancestors did that aren't my ancestors?

49:07

The idea of complimentary and so you you see now people who are writing open apology letters for oppressing

49:14

Beth Or and so now we have to apologize to Beth for and to every other woman that's out there

49:20

Conference speaker because we are not allowing them to either be president of the Southern Baptist Convention Or we're not inviting them to preach to mixed audiences in evangelical conference or you know

49:31

Preach to mixed audiences in the local church provided that they're not holding the office of elder And so we're seeing that type of idea pressed upon us.

49:40

So we need to apologize, you know in that way I think that that's just absolutely Unfounded biblically, but you just mentioned she who should never be criticized

49:57

It does it really is amazing how you you almost can't criticize her and people don't even they ignore the fact that she's she's now

50:03

Openly associating with with people that we consider rank heretics in this Now Andrew that's exactly

50:11

I think the point we need to be making here as it pertains to Beth Moore Like there's a lot of people saying we shouldn't be as critical about Beth Moore and evangelical circles that type of thing and I get it

50:22

I understand. I mean, I think that there's are some people that could actually go beyond, you know, the necessary point with her

50:28

I think that they can be overly critical at time. But here's the real rub for me is that she is

50:35

Very much associating herself with a lot of rank character and she is not only associating herself with those people

50:43

But she's also stating those types of ideas in those theological positions. And so let's just be clear

50:49

We're not trying to pick on Beth Moore just to you know, stir up trouble We're trying to actually state that there are some problems with her theology and so I believe that she's she's a charismatic who is being just welcomed in with open arms into You know

51:05

Southern Baptist life. And so that's an issue, you know people want to say well should Beth Moore be the president?

51:11

She's of the SVC. She's a woman. Why I've got another question. Should a charismatic be the president of the

51:16

Southern Baptist? Well, I would go a little for me I think Beth Moore is a perfect illustration or poster child in this case of where why this social justice the statement on social justice is necessary because you know

51:28

She appealed originally to it to conservative audiences And now you see her look she has made public statements that she has had dreams from God Stating things that didn't come true.

51:39

That would make her a false prophet so so you you look at her life and and and where her ministry is and this is exactly what we see and why this issue is such a concern to people like you and I Because what we see in her is where we see the church heading if if they don't stop this

51:57

She has appealed more and more to gaining the audience the platform and in doing so is is

52:04

Associating with people that are prosperity gospel a totally different gospel message. She's speaking like them as you mentioned

52:12

It's not that we pick on her But I would I would say the question is should you have somebody who claims that she has extra biblical revelation?

52:20

Coming to her and false revelation. Should she be the president of the Southern Baptist?

52:25

The reality is most of the people will will turn a blind eye to that because she's a woman. Yeah Yeah unfortunately she's going to get a free pass on a lot of that simply because of the fact that she's a woman and we are at A point where we are going to be seen as discriminating against her simply because of the fact that she's a woman

52:44

So that's where we are Yeah, okay So let's go to number number six the gospel one of the three

52:49

G's and G in the g3 conference that I forgot You got it man, you got it this time.

52:55

All right I'm never gonna forget that again. You now realize that right? It needs to be the first one out.

53:01

Yeah gospel grace and glory. So yeah in this particular Statement on this particular article in the statement.

53:08

We want to affirm again The preeminent position of the gospel and so in in Christian are not just Christian circles

53:17

But the evangelical circles you might say as a whole we need to make sure that our foundation is the gospel

53:23

And then we also don't need to lose confidence in the gospel. So when we think about racial reconciliation

53:28

We hear all this stuff about well, we have to use this political method like Intersectionality or we have to do something else in order to try to achieve this this reconciliation

53:39

Well, I just want to ask a simple question. Is the gospel somehow insufficient to do that?

53:45

And so call me crazy But when I read the Bible I see that the gospel of Jesus Christ is bringing unity in different cultural scenes like take the demon -possessed man who's out of his mind and he's naked and he's cutting himself in the in the tomb and Then the gospel

54:00

Jesus in his earthly ministry in person preaches the gospel to him and his life is transformed

54:07

And so he's now instead of cast out into the community now He's clothed and he and he's in his right mind and he can actually be civil and he can have you know

54:16

Unity together with other people whereas before he could not and so I think that we need to understand that the gospel is what brings you know the

54:24

Jew and the Gentile the bond and the free the red the yellow the black the white the Circumcised and the uncircumcised it brings everyone together.

54:33

And so we don't need politics And I love the statement says we deny that anything else whether it be works to be performed or Opinions to be held can be added to the gospel without perverting it into another gospel.

54:48

I mean, this has been the issue Galatians was written over this issue, right? Changed a gospel message

54:55

Yeah And that's precisely why in the bottom see the scripture and one of the scripture references is

55:00

Galatians 1 6 to 9 where Paul said if Anyone comes if an angel from heaven come preaching any other gospel than the gospel that we have delivered it to you

55:08

But let that one be anathema. Let that one be a curse down to hell so we can definitely run the risk at this juncture if we're not careful of mission drift with within the local church or within the church itself of Jesus Christ with social gospel issues of Mission drift where the church instead of focusing on the gospel

55:30

We didn't focus on something else. It's sort of like this. It's like say Chick -fil -a Say they have an employee that's on Saturday with a double wraparound line the drive standing there besides, you know, what as a good service

55:42

I'm just gonna wash window and so they start washing windows as a service to those in the drive -thru and it pretty soon they get

55:49

So good at it that higher -up management starts to see this and they decide you know

55:54

What we're going to start a window washing service at Chick -fil -a and then pretty soon over the course of time They become so focused on their window washing service that they neglect their ability to produce a good chicken sandwich

56:05

That's what we call mission drift and so if the Church of Jesus Christ loses sight on the mission of the gospel and then instead turns to social issues like social justice, then we have certainly capitulated and we can run the risk of Formulating and embracing a false gospel.

56:23

And so let's move on to number seven salvation So salvation again, we need to understand that salvation, you know comes by grace alone

56:30

And so the idea that we could use political maneuvering to you know

56:35

Bring people to a place of right standing before God not that we necessarily see people

56:40

Suggesting that if you're woke that you know the same as being born again But there's an awful lot of you know emphasis on being woke

56:48

I want to hear people preaching about being awakened by the Spirit of God and what genuine

56:54

New birth is the recreative work of God and you know bringing dead sinners to life spiritually

57:00

But instead I'm hearing a lot of people preaching about woke, you know, are you woke?

57:05

Are you able to see systemic oppression and systemic injustice? And so we want to know we want people to see that we affirm that salvation comes by grace alone

57:15

And then we also want to deny that salvation to be received in any other way So we think that any type of Christian group that would formulate a statement on something like this

57:27

Not only do we need to start with Scripture and have an article on the gospel But we also need to be clear on salvation

57:33

You know You mentioned the term woke and for folks who aren't as involved in this whole social justice movement

57:39

They may not know what that term means I actually when I start here and I had to I had to call my friend from the bar podcast, you know

57:47

And like help me out with this, you know, because I hear this all the time and and you know, what is it?

57:53

What's the term mean woke? Well, really if you want to look at what the term means,

57:59

I mean, you know Eric Mason has suggested that it's basically coming out of the black nationalism

58:04

And so it's a it's an urban colloquialism. It's some type of you know terminology that's coming out of that type of cultural background that's suggesting that if you can't see

58:17

Systemic racism, it's alive and well in our culture. Not only at large but also our culture as far as evangelicalism and You are not woke.

58:26

You're not awakened like in other words You don't have eyes to see it And so if you can see systemic racism that the system itself is rigged against people of color and holding people back

58:36

There's a glass ceiling you can't you know go but a certain, you know height as far as the

58:42

Climbing the ladder if you can see that then you are woke and so, you know again

58:47

That's that's really what the term means in a nutshell. Okay, so let's move on to number eight the church

58:53

So what are you trying to affirm? And and what are we trying to deny in in this article?

58:58

Well, we want people to understand that the church is and should take the primary role

59:04

You know for believers and so this idea that you can just be a social justice warrior

59:10

You can be out, you know involved in cultural things and just living out in Activism all the time that that's that's certainly an incorrect position to hold and so we want to once again put a spotlight on the idea

59:24

That the church is plan a you know for God's people We need to be living our lives and using our giftedness to equip

59:31

Saints and to evangelize the law through the local church And we go on to heresy, which is number nine

59:38

Well again, I think that we need to be clear on this and I want to be as Clear as I possibly can

59:45

I think that social justice warriors who are suggesting that if we're not woke or if we're anti woke in other words

59:52

If we know what woke is, but we're unwilling to embrace that type of position that we're heretics

59:58

Well, I think that that in and of itself is heretical Okay But I also want to be clear to suggest that there are many people that are in this social justice movement

01:00:07

That I think are damaging the church and I think that they are Very unhelpful in their terminology and their language.

01:00:15

I think that there are some men who Can preach the gospel so much better than what they're doing now as far as this agenda is concerned

01:00:25

So I don't want to rush to use the heresy term Too quickly in other words,

01:00:30

I I want to I want to be clear as to what heresy is But then also at the same time use it in its right context

01:00:37

So, you know the term heresy itself is it's a technical term that means someone who has either added something to or taken something away from the gospel of Jesus Christ and so if you are

01:00:49

Suggesting that social justice is the gospel, you know, like someone once said Calvinism is the gospel

01:00:55

I think Spurgeon said it if you're suggesting that social justice is the gospel And I think that you can be running the risk of you know, embracing a false gospel

01:01:04

Being heretical, but I think that we need to be balanced and careful on both sides of the fifth theological conversation

01:01:11

So it's not just be throwing the word heresy around without, you know, careful use all right, and then we move it on to number 10 and now now is where we're going to start getting into some of the issues of the social justice movement

01:01:25

Sexuality and marriage. What are you trying to do? Well, we want to you know spotlight the importance of marriage marriage itself is something that God created for the purpose of demonstrating a picture of the gospel of Jesus Christ And so God is the one who instituted marriage from the beginning and God is the one who is glorified through that that covenantal relationship between one man and one woman for life but we also want to deny that sexuality and gender are socially constructed concepts and we also want to To deny that one's gender can be fluid and we want to furthermore reject the category of gay

01:02:01

Christianity and so we want to uphold the biblical language of gender role in Specificity as God himself and then following up on that is is number 11 on complementarianism

01:02:12

So the question that I asked in our Dallas meeting was is the Denver statement is it suddenly, you know obsolete?

01:02:18

Is it not useful anymore? Is it outdated? Is it is it not, you know sufficient to articulate the positions that we've held for so long and so we just want to once again with this sudden urge the sudden need for Everyone to redefine complementarianism and we want to affirm the biblical role and responsibility of gender both male and female

01:02:38

But we want to also deny that, you know The God -ordained differences in men and women are somehow holding back people from you know flourishing for the glory of God And so it's sort of like this back in the days of the conservative resurgence you had people that would argue you would have a liberal and a conservative that would be having a

01:02:58

Conversation that was centering on inerrancy and they would say things like this They would say well, you know, I believe in inerrancy and the liberal would say well

01:03:05

I believe in inerrancy as well. They would say really so what do you mean? the Conservative would say well

01:03:11

I believe that the Bible is the Word of God and then the liberal or the moderate would say well

01:03:17

I believe that the Bible contains the Word of God. Mm -hmm And so then they would they would argue based upon the terminology

01:03:25

But they were approaching the terms with two different definitions And so I think at the Southern Baptist Convention this year you had a lot of people that were asking questions

01:03:32

Are we denying complementarity because of all the tweets and the tweet storm that was, you know Just everywhere everyone was talking about should we elect a woman as the president?

01:03:42

Can we you know in that type of thing? Well, you know to a lot of the leadership in different panel discussions and even in you know talks they were saying things like well

01:03:51

We affirm complementarianism. We unashamedly believe in complementarianism But the question is it's not do they believe or hold to complementarianism

01:04:00

It's what do they mean by complementarianism? And so the idea is that there's an awful lot of people who are claiming to embrace the idea of complementarianism

01:04:09

But I think a lot of people are coming to the table with different definitions So we need to operate from the same dictionary and then following that one number number 12 is and this is we've addressed this a couple

01:04:20

Times but race race and ethnicity. Yeah, so we want to affirm right out of the chute that God made all people from one man so we believe in one human race and then we don't think that the idea of race in the sense of the black race or the white race or whatever other type of Distinction that people want to use today.

01:04:39

We want to make it known that we think that that's an unbiblical category

01:04:45

So we believe in different ethnicities, but one human race and that we can all be traced back to Adam And so the idea of race really is something that emerges somewhere about four or five hundred years ago

01:04:58

And so it's not a biblical understanding and then following up on that number 13 is the issue of culture

01:05:05

Yeah, so culture, you know We want to affirm that some cultures operate on assumptions that are inherently better than than those of other cultures

01:05:13

But then we go on to state this because of the biblical truths that inform those world views that have produced these distinct

01:05:20

Assumptions. So in other words, there are certain cultures that are more what we would consider to be Healthy than others, but we also want to deny that individuals and subgroups in any culture are

01:05:32

Unable to rise above whatever moral defects or spiritual deficiencies have been engendered or encouraged

01:05:40

By those perspective cultures So what we're trying to communicate there is that you know this idea of like a caste system or whatever, you know in certain types of Nations or cultures where you have a person that would you know be born with this particular

01:05:56

Cultural distinctive and they would never be able to rise above it Now we have an American culture the idea that if you are born into a certain culture that you can't ever rise above it

01:06:07

So you have to have help or we have to have some sort of movement to help the oppressed to rise above it

01:06:13

We simply don't believe that to be true. We think that you know, the gospel of Jesus Christ can change someone's heart

01:06:18

They might not have the same opportunities at certain levels than other people, but the system is not holding them back on purpose, you know, so We just want to be clear as to what we mean by culture and how culture impacts who we are as individuals

01:06:32

You know, it is kind of interesting if you think about it when you look at history and the culture that was years ago in England and Europe and all and what made

01:06:42

America so different I mean Ben Franklin traveled to Europe talking about the fact that in America people can make their own way

01:06:49

It wasn't a noble class and the lesser class and that people weren't born into a class system and it's almost as if our culture now is trying to put people back into that system where they need to rely on help from Others to be able to move on and that's not what

01:07:04

America was founded on America was founded on the fact that you can make your own way work hard Get an education work do you can you can make a new life for yourself?

01:07:15

And that's what drew so many people to America and it's almost difficult going back to the system. They came out of yeah

01:07:20

And that's that's exactly what where Marxism enters the scene here Is that that dividing up the culture into you know race gender and in class so to speak?

01:07:30

And so we have to then figure out where we fall into those Categories the subgroups and then figure out where the oppressed groups are and then run to their aid

01:07:39

And so that's that's where we can start to see a lot of the problems starting to you know

01:07:45

Compile at that juncture and then the last one number 14 is racism. Yeah, so this is a hot topic right now

01:07:51

I mean you have MLK 50 you have lots of conversations happening You have that the police brutality issues that are happening.

01:07:58

I love what what Votie Baucham says, you know He he holds to this idea of what he calls ethnic

01:08:03

Gnosticism It's this idea that you know when something bad happens that there are certain people in the black community that would say well

01:08:10

We know what what happened, you know, well, we haven't seen the first, you know line of evidence But we know what happened because we're black and we know they are out to get it

01:08:19

And so No, we don't know. No, we don't know what really happened and we need to make sure that we are

01:08:27

You know when it comes to something like we hear that someone was shot by a police officer

01:08:32

We don't need to rush to this idea of well, you know It must have been some sort of racial issue and we also need to remember that, you know

01:08:42

But there are a lot of police officers, you know that are being murdered as well We need to think about that when it comes to this conversation, but racism is an extremely

01:08:50

Volatile hot -topic issue and so we didn't necessarily put it at the end of the statement on purpose

01:08:56

But it just kind of ends there because the flow of this particular statement But we want to affirm that racism is a sin that's rooted in pride and or malice and it should be condemned

01:09:07

And it should be run out. And so we want to make sure that we we state that with clarity But then we also want to deny that treating people with sinful partiality or prejudice is consistent with biblical

01:09:18

Christianity So the idea of you know A social justice movement on on the idea of racism could actually itself turn out to be reverse racism and so we need to be very very careful with how we think about racism and we need to be thinking about the fact that We need to we need to Cling to the gospel of Jesus Christ to bring unity

01:09:39

But we don't need to import certain political maneuvers or ideologies as the ultimate answer to the problem

01:09:47

Yeah, well, I mean I guess what we said earlier, right trying to reverse racism is still racism

01:09:52

I mean, right and so it doesn't end it and that's the issue, you know, so we have these 14 things

01:09:57

I think I really think that for the church within the church I think that this the root issue that we see through this is is gonna be one that we people are not trusting in the

01:10:08

Sovereignty of God and the sufficiency of Scripture, but I mean Another article almost that we could maybe add or you know, but an underlying problem

01:10:17

I think for our culture is the fact that you know guys like you and I Josh we think through issues

01:10:23

I mean It's almost like we needed one that says we affirm that God gave us a human mind to reason to come in reason together but Culture, it's like we have to say we deny feeling our way through problems and that's what the culture is doing

01:10:38

I think the real issue that we see in this next generation is a Group a large group of people that don't want to think about issues.

01:10:45

They want to feel their way through issues So truth doesn't matter. I mean this I find it amazing that you get so many professing atheists that want to argue for Transgenderism that somebody's born boy or girl, but they're actually not they're a different gender and they have to identify

01:11:00

It's how they identify because I actually argue that Transgenderism destroys the argument for atheism.

01:11:08

So when these atheists argue that they're saying look, we're not just biology no longer I mean, they've been for all along saying we're just chemical reactions now all of a sudden they're saying no, it's how we identify how we feel

01:11:18

What do you get those feelings from? I mean if you're biologically male, you're gonna be a male You're biologically only gonna be interested in female because that's the biology once you start appealing to all this

01:11:28

I I kind of I kind of laugh because they don't even think through it that They're the the professing atheists that support this stuff are destroying their own arguments

01:11:36

And it's because they're feeling their way through it not thinking their way and I think I think that's an underlying problem that we're gonna have

01:11:42

To deal with as a church with the next generation is guys like you and I are used to discussing the theology reasoning through the scriptures and the next generation

01:11:51

They don't care about that. It's how does it make them feel? Yeah, that's certainly a problem and something that we're gonna have to deal with on an ongoing basis

01:11:58

But you know, we're gonna put this statement out and we're gonna ask for people to not just feel their way through the statement

01:12:04

It's actually think through the statement and then you know, if it doesn't you know go against the conscience If they don't violate their own conscience, we're gonna ask them to stand with us

01:12:12

You know to be bold and to sign with their name on this statement and say, you know We're going to stand here with these people.

01:12:19

We're gonna we're gonna plant a stake here a Flag here. So I think that this will be helpful and it's our goal to not just be focusing on the

01:12:30

Denial so much the negative as to say, you know Christianity is joyful and the gospel is good news

01:12:37

So we hope that this statement will be hopeful and joyful at the same time and I'm gonna encourage folks go to statement on social justice

01:12:46

Calm right now and read through this and sign it. I mean this is going to go live

01:12:52

Shortly, um, but we have over 75 people who've already signed this document more signing once this goes live we're gonna give him more and you know,

01:13:01

I look at some of the signers and some of the folks as we mentioned guys like Votie bockham guys like Daryl Harris who you know

01:13:09

They take a beating because they are are african -american men who are not carrying the you know

01:13:16

The party line, you know men like like Dwayne Atkinson from the bar podcast. I mean these guys

01:13:22

You know another one with you know Would be I don't know if he signed is is Virgil Walker from just thinking who's he and Daryl Harris do that?

01:13:29

These guys take a lot of abuse because they're they're not following the tribalism that there's quote -unquote supposed to be following and it's

01:13:37

They're being called traitors for standing up for the truth of the gospel God's Word Yeah, yeah

01:13:43

And I think you're right and I you know I want to come in those guys standing on the Word of God and not just being you know driven by their

01:13:50

Tribal lines, you know, I think we can all be guilty of that at times and a lot of times especially within you know

01:13:56

Politics for instance, but but as it pertains to the idea of feeling rather than you know

01:14:02

Knowing or you know being led by feelings rather than knowledge. It's this idea that you know

01:14:08

Victimology has somehow replaced theology. And so what we want to do is we want to say we've not been victimized

01:14:15

I've been oppressed. I've been terminated again. So it creates this Sympathetic, you know feel -good type of motive of running to the aid of that individual

01:14:24

And so, you know rather than just dealing with the issues we have to run that direction

01:14:29

I think that's where a lot of the social justice stuff. I agree So so Josh, you know, we've gone a little bit longer than we typically go on a rap report podcast the weekly ones

01:14:39

But I think this is one of great importance and I wanted to get you to be able to share what's going on and your heart on all this and and the points that are trying to be made anything else that you you would want for folks to know other

01:14:53

Than going reading the statement signing it share get the statement share it when it goes live when this website goes live share it

01:15:00

Everywhere so that people know because people need to be we as conservative Christians that would sign this statement need to make a voice

01:15:08

That's loud. You're gonna be able to see on statement on social gospel calm There's gonna be blog articles that are gonna be coming out within the first week.

01:15:16

You're gonna see an article from dr John MacArthur, you're gonna see a bunch of articles that are gonna come out and stuff

01:15:22

So I'm one you encourage you to keep going there Keep reading the article share the articles because we need to put a stop to this movement within the church

01:15:30

We need to penetrate the the culture with the gospel and we need to penetrate the church with the

01:15:36

Word of God Not the world, but other than that Josh, what would anything you want to share before you we we go?

01:15:42

Yeah, I mean I say, you know go to the statement It's a statement on socialjustice .com

01:15:48

as you've mentioned share it with folks But I just want to emphasize the the beauty of something like this is that we are actually given the freedom to have an intellectual

01:15:58

Theological conversation in such a way that can be beneficial to the Church of Jesus Christ So I would just encourage not only sharing this statement

01:16:06

But to pray for the Church of Jesus Christ and to ask for God's Blessing ask for the

01:16:13

Spirit of God to bring clarity and unity and so that this very dangerous Agenda as it's been discussed at the very, you know beginning of this episode that this dangerous agenda would not have its full effect

01:16:25

Upon the Church of Christ. And so we want to see this to be a beneficial Joyful pushback against something that could be so deviant.

01:16:33

That's so true. So, you know, Josh. Thank you. Thanks for coming on You know, I we're gonna you know for folks who are regular listeners or come back after a commercial

01:16:41

It just give you guys some updates of some stuff going on with striving for eternity striving for eternity is a

01:16:47

Christ centered ministry focused on equipping people for eternity and they provide speakers and Seminars that come to your church with expertise in theology hermeneutics world religions creation science evangelism priest a position of apologetics church history and expertise and sexual abuse in the church for details on their

01:17:06

Seminars and to request a speaker for your church go to striving for eternity org striving to make today an eternal day for the glory of God and so with that just to give you guys some updates where Striving for curing is going to be in the next few months

01:17:21

Starting September September October is gonna be a busy time September 14th to 16th.

01:17:27

Dr Anthony Sylvester myself will be joined by Mark Spence from Living Waters will be out at Redwood City, California That's Northern, California to do a equip

01:17:35

NorCal conference the following weekend The 21st to the 23rd will be in Carnation, Washington Or at least

01:17:42

I'll be in Carnation, Washington to do a seminar on what do we believe? September 28th and 29th.

01:17:49

I will be down in the South Jersey apologetics conference dealing with the topic of evangelism

01:17:55

And then on October 5th, I'll be in New Jersey at gyro church in Marlborough, New Jersey That will again will deal with the topic of evangelism and then the 12th

01:18:06

October 12th to the 14th I will be out in CUNY, Idaho with brother Justin Peters Church and Jim Osmond, he's the pastor there.

01:18:16

I will be speaking out there doing a the ambassador Evangelism seminar that we have

01:18:22

October 20th We're gonna have a special outreach in New York City for those who want to join us

01:18:27

We got some folks coming in from California and Dallas and we're gonna take them to do some evangelism in New York City Which is a great place to do especially open -air evangelism if you enjoy that But a lot of you you can literally reach the world and talk to every different religion from one spot called

01:18:43

Union Square in there, so that's what we have going on and I think

01:18:51

That's we're gonna have some I think another date. I'm still working on in November But the the if you would like to have us come to your church to your conference have one of our speakers dr

01:19:02

Anthony Silvestro pastor Frank Molster myself we're we'd be glad to come out and be part of What you may be looking to do.

01:19:12

So if you're in those areas and you would like to you know

01:19:18

Attend I know we don't have everything on the website but if you'd like to attend, please email us info at striving for eternity dot org and we will get you all the information the specific details of where those events are and We're gonna be updating the website to add those things.

01:19:35

We you've noticed we have a brand new website But I do hope this was an important issue what we discussed here with Josh and I hope that you will share that with others

01:19:44

Because this is something we really have to get the word out about this So I hope that you would take this episode and share this hope that you are subscribers to the rap report

01:19:55

We do have a daily podcast. It's two minutes every day. We wrap it up on Saturday and then on Sunday We usually drop a one -hour podcast.

01:20:04

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01:20:14

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01:20:20

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01:20:30

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01:20:43

Christian podcast community if you're not familiar with that the Christian podcast community has a whole bunch of Podcasts that are gonna be coming on starting in September.

01:20:51

You're gonna start seeing us roll those out and With that we're gonna have a new show that's gonna be coming soon

01:20:59

And that show is gonna be a two -hour Apologetics live and that is also something that they want to get on the air

01:21:07

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01:21:12

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01:21:26

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