Justus Walker on Life in Russia

Welcome to the Conversations That Matter podcast. My name is John Harris. Well, today is going to be a little bit different. As many of you know, the show is called Conversations That Matter because, well, we have conversations or I give a monologue about topics that matter to me.

Russia, War and Peace, and Why the Topic Matters

I think they're important. And one of the things I, you know, most of you probably don't know this in my audience, but I've started to develop a little bit of an interest and a curiosity in Russia. And I certainly am not an expert on Russia at all, but I did listen to the audible version of War and Peace, which I am proud of that.

It's one of my probably top five accomplishments in life because that's a very, very long book. But you know, Russia to me, it just has such a fascinating history, kind of coming out of communism still, you know, we'll find out today more about kind of where they're at now.

But I think there's just so many things that I've learned that actually even parallel in some ways, the United States, obviously, there's there's a lot of differences. But we're going to explore Russia a little bit today, if that's okay with you.

So we have a special guest, Justice, I'm going to let you kind of introduce yourself a little.

Bit.

And then I'm going to tell everyone kind of how I found out about you. But Justice is a missionary in Russia. He has a large, actually a larger than my following channel on YouTube. So Justice, why don't you tell us a little bit about that?

Yeah, John, thanks so much for inviting me over. It was always nice to get a invite from a fellow brother and just be able to talk about, like you said, things that matter. So yeah, as you said, my name is Justice Walker.

And my folks came over to Russia back in 1994, right after the fall of the Soviet Union. And there were missionaries here in Russia and Siberia for six years. I grew up in Russia. So when we moved over here, I was 11.

And when my folks finally decided to go back to the States to end their mission, I just turned 18. I had a real serious plan. I'm the kind of guy who always likes to have like, you know, five year plans for everything, seven year plans for everything.

Even back when I was a kid, I was like, I knew what university I was planning on going to what college I knew how I was going to get in. I knew I was going to pay for it. I knew what dorm I was going to live in, what floor and what dorm, what professors were going to, you know, I knew everything.

Like I had the whole thing written up by the time I was 15. And when I was 18, when my folks decided to finish their mission, when they felt they needed to come home, I did the normal, you know, Christian young person thing.

I was like, well, I better pray about this because this, you know, it's important. Any big decision in life you need to pray about. So I went out in the woods and started praying about it. And I'm not one of these people who says that, you know, God woke me up yesterday and told me to put on black socks or something like that, because I don't think that the almighty God generally speaks like that frivolously.

But I had a serious encounter with what I believe to be the voice of the Lord telling me to come back to Russia, went back when I was 18 and it was totally like out of blue.

Air.

I was totally not expecting that. So I changed courses, came back to Russia and I've been serving as a missionary in my own right for the last 20 years in Russia. I spent four years in a big city doing orphan ministry and working with street kids and doing a recording studio and a couple of different projects.

2004, I changed courses in the mission and went up north to serve in small villages as a pastor. And that's been more or less the ministry that I've been doing for the last 16 years is starting pastoring, establishing, raising up leaders and leaving those churches behind and repeat, repeat, repeat, repeat for about 16 years now.

2010, we had always been trying to find different tent making opportunities, like I taught English for to get additional income. I sold iPhones, I repaired computers, I did all kinds of different things to just make an additional buck.

And in 2010, I kind of looking around like I'm trying to do all those different things. And I'm in the middle of a village and everyone kind of does subsistence farming. Maybe I should just like farm or something.

And I'm not too brilliant. Sometimes I make up for my lack of brains with just simple like stick to it did this. So 2010, we started a little cow farm and a year later we started a little goat farm and stuck with that for about five years, six years till 2016, really learned what we were doing, created a model that now we advocate for other people to use.

In 2016, I moved to a new location, started a little bit larger farm. I call it a four family farm. So it's a farm that's big enough that can sustain four families. There's four or four of us that work together on the farm.

And that's what we do now. We preach the gospel in the surrounding villages. We work the farm. I have a YouTube channel. In 2015, we had some interesting geopolitical events that kind of conspired to make me famous as a as a strange, weird American guy who's farming in Russia.

They were there. I saw. So that's a story in itself. Yeah, it's a story itself. That's when I started blogging. So I've been doing that for five years. And the Lord really used that as an as a tool to like people came to the channel originally because I had a really strange laugh and people thought I was kind of like the Mary Milkman, you know, that's like, oh, man, he's so funny.

He's like a comic or something. But then they stayed around for the other things that I was trying to talk about. It ended up kind of being like a Trojan horse for the Lord. And since then, our model of planting a church with a farm has been duplicated.

As far as I know, that people have actually gotten back to me and said, we have gone and done this using our model 40 different times. So aside from the six churches that we've planted ourselves, it's also had that success.

So we're really blessed that the Lord has kind of expanded what we're doing and trying to live on the land, live with the people, preach the gospel, indeed, as well as in word. That's what we're all about.

The Viral Clip, Suffering, and a Trojan Horse for the Gospel

Wow. Just as I could probably talk to you for a long time and we don't have forever, but there's so many things you hit on there that just fascinate me. I want to hear about this model. But but first, here's kind of how I found out about you.

The viral video obviously was one of the things I saw. But my brother had sent me an interview that you had done. I think it was with another American guy in Russia, if I'm not mistaken. I don't know because I watched so many videos of yours after that.

It's getting fuzzy. But but you're kind of an agrarian guy. You have these great ideas on farming. And I suspect a lot of my audience, in fact, I know because people have gotten back to me. A lot of them live in Middle America.

Some of them are farmers. And you're also in Russia, which obviously formerly Soviet Union. And just there's so many questions I have about that in doing ministry there. And I was watching one of your videos where you had, I think, your daughters and a few friends.

You guys were milking cows. And and I was like, I was like telling my wife, I was like, you got to come in here. I was like, watch this. We could move to Russia. I was like, we could do it. We could just do what this guy's doing.

And she's kind of looking at me skeptically.

But, yeah, well, I hear the light of great opportunity, man.

Right. I've also seen this documentary called Happy People about Siberia, which, by the way, anyone watching needs to see this, which which, you know, these people are like, well, they're way up there.

And you think it'd be miserable, but they're the happiest people. So you confirm that to me. But so here's where where I guess I want to start. You're you're an American guy. You're living in Russia. You kind of got famous because the Russians, the Russian news organization tried to use a clip they took from you to promote the idea that, I guess, what's the word I'm looking for?

The economic we're trying to stop free trade. Yeah, go for it. What was the word you use?

I'm sorry. Sanctions, sanctions.

Right. Sanctions were good and they worked. And you were kind of like supporting that. But you weren't really saying that. They kind of use that. But it went everywhere. And both sides were kind of like going back and forth, depending on what you said, like he's on our side.

No, he's on our side. And now you have this platform kind of overnight as a missionary in a country where you're not from there originally. What's that like? Having all these people kind of view you that way as kind of a, you know, something different.

Like you said, they thought you maybe were a comedian or something, but your mission is to share the gospel there. Was that kind of a surreal thing for you when that happened?

It was it was it was absolutely surreal. Like it was it was and it's funny because like one of the one of the themes, the common themes that we see in scripture is that God takes our weakness and turns it into strength.

He takes our ashes and exchanges it for beauty. And 2014 was one of the worst years of my life. Like starting from 2013 through 2014, we lost a baby. We buried a child on the local cemetery. We, you know, some of the locals had killed one of our horses.

Some of the other locals had killed some of our goats. Things were just not going good. Like it was it was darkness inside of darkness. It was like the shadow, the valley, the shadow of death at midnight.

It was really bad. And and, you know, you're out there, you're like, what are we even doing here? Like we've got this little church and I know that I'm supposed to stay the course. And but I'm stuck in this village.

No one's ever going to hear about me. Like if we if the local, you know, good old boys get together and torture us tonight, like no one's ever going to know about it for like for a long, long time. Like it's like totally, you know, what am I doing here?

And just, you know, feeling the Lord again, not saying, but that leading of the spirit of just be like, stay the course, stay the course, stay the course. And so the sanctions happen. So, you know, Russia does the the annexation of Crimea and the West respond with sanctions and the Russia responds with counter sanctions, kind of shoots themselves in their own foot with their own counter sanctions.

And this news channel comes up and they're like, you know, you're a farmer, aren't you really in support of these sanctions? You're American, you're farming in Russia and support. And I'd be like I had this 45 minute conversation where I was like, no, absolutely not.

You know, competition, free markets, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And and somewhere in there, like at the end, I made a joke about, well, there is one good thing, you know, before I couldn't even get my foot in the door because they'd be like mozzarella, mozzarella from taco chat, you know, mozzarella should come from Italy.

And now it's like, well, now you don't have any of your Italian mozzarella anymore, do you? That was like the five second clip that goes boom. But it was surreal because it was like everyone's coming to the channel being like, oh, you know, we love your laugh.

We love your laugh. And it was like, but I've been in darkness like this has been the saddest time of my life. And yet everyone, the whole Russia knows me as this Christian guy who's the Mary Melkman, like that is the meme on the Internet.

And like that's that to me is is a beautiful thing. Like that's and how can you be happy? How can you be joyful? And it's like, well, the joy of the Lord is that, you know, the joy of the Lord is my strength.

And that's and that's what I was able to share with people. And again, like I said, it kind of ended up being a Trojan horse of people came for that. And then there was home education, there was farming, there was the gospel, there was Christ, all of that that they got in return from coming to the channel.

So it was strange, but but God has turned it around for his own for his own purposes.

Protectionism didn't make you happy. It was no, it was something much deeper. And that's what people came for. Tell me a little bit about just in general, living in a place like Russia where I know there's the Eastern Orthodox Church and everything I've heard now, which is very limited, is that the Eastern Orthodox Church, Russian Orthodox Church, I should say, is kind of on the rise.

They're building churches all over the place. You know, the military has this beautiful cathedral that was just built and there's almost like a revival going on of, you know, Russian, ancient Christian tradition.

I'm kind of skeptical of that, but I wanted to hear from you, like what? Tell us a little bit about Eastern Orthodoxy. I know you can't say everything, but and then and you're obviously you're not that you're a Protestant Christian living there.

And what is that? What's the mission field like ministering to people that have, I suspect, a cultural kind of Christianity?

So, yeah, Russia is a very interesting mission field in the sense that if you were asking a Russian on the street, you know, what religion are they? You know, what faith are they? They would definitely say Christian.

They would say Orthodox, like just, you know, five out of ten, seven out of ten, eight out of ten people you stop in the street, you know, yeah, we're Christian. We're Orthodox, you know, and so the weirdness in that is what does that mean?

You know, well, it means that I when I see an icon, I cross myself and I have a cross on my neck that I was given when I was a child. That's what that means.

Really?

I mean, that's you think that that's what the sum total of what being a Christian really, really means. And it's it's like with any nation that has nominally received Christ. There is that that fight of he is not a Jew who's Jew outwardly, but one who is one inwardly, and saying, no, no, you got to actually follow Christ.

And that's in some ways even harder than dealing with just straight up pagans. Like I spent I spent a time working up in the far north, almost exactly in the back door of that place where they did the the Happy People movie where we started some churches up there.

Yeah, like exactly like that same area. And the thing about that is that the event people, the non Russian peoples that are up there, they're pagan. They're shamanistic. And that was wonderful. It was like, oh, you have your God, we have our God, and we don't even care about your God knows like, but he cares about you.

And let's go back to Acts. Let's go back to Mars Hill. Like, this is really awesome. This is a way to start a new conversation. And this is an amazing thing. But when you talk to an Orthodox person is like Jesus, they're like, oh, yeah, we know.

Jesus.

And they're like, you know, God. Oh, yeah, we know God. No, no, but you really don't. It's really hard kind of thing. As far as the revival, quote unquote, that's happening. Russian Protestantism is about 1 of the population.

If you were to ask the official statistics on Russian Orthodoxy, they'd say about 30 of the population. But if you actually go in and do a clicker meter on the on the weekly attendance, not people who claim Orthodox affiliation, but actually do the work which has been done by Orthodox priests inside the system, they say it's about 1%.

And so you see these buildings being built. You see all this stuff going up. It's Caesar papism. It's basically the government financing, pushing money in through the church and trying to buy votes by by pumping up nationalism through a national church.

You know, it's it's that's what that's what we're seeing.

Cultural Christianity, Orthodox Identity, and Caesar-Papism

So so these churches are essentially empty or half empty than it sounds like they're not functioning.

We have this. Yeah, we have this wonderful, beautiful, you know, new temple in the county seat, our county seat here in Solon, Ishla. And it it had it's been there for 10 years. They have a regular attendance of 10 people.

That's the county seat. That's 4000 people in that in that in that town. The town that I'm next to is called the town of Stipnoy. It has 150 people as population. I've been here for four years and we have 25 people coming regularly to our meetings.

You know, so that's just tells a certain story.

Yeah, no, that's definitely eye opening. And there was someone who had kind of told me that, you know, it's kind of making headlines, but it's it's all fluff. There's really not much behind it. And you're kind of confirming that.

It sounds a little bit to me like a little bit like if I was going to try to draw a comparison with the United States, that Siberia would be maybe like going up to New York City or.

Something.

I don't know, like a very godless area, the Northeast, Pacific Northwest. And then the south would be like a lot of the other parts of Russia where there's going to be kind of a cultural understanding, but no reality.

Would that be a fairest comparison, you think?

I think Siberia is I think the rural urban divide holds true across a lot of times cross cultures. So Siberia is a lot like your Midwest, a lot like your south, you know, the smaller urban centers. You don't have a lot of people.

People are more conservative, even even atheists. These are people who are completely godless, you know, like they're still like, you know, you should get married and stay married and have kids. It's like, well, why?

And they're like, oh, because.

Right.

Well, yeah, that's right. But, you know, so anyway, so so you have that urban urban agrarian rural divide. It really is very meaningful. And even even cross cross culturally. So Siberia is definitely culturally, politically, economically is very, very conservative, whereas the western part of Russia across the Urals back that way towards Moscow, the closer you get to Moscow, the more rot there is, the more perversion, the more, you know, all that kind of stuff.

So it's a lot like the United States where, you know, you get you get you get out of arm's length away from the big cities and, you know, the stench kind of filters away a little bit. And so I hear you.

I agree.

Putin, Western Moral Collapse, and Where Hope Really Lies

I got to ask you this because, you know, you read some of like or or you probably see them live some of these like Putin speeches where he talks about how the West is committing suicide with same sex marriage and all kinds of immoral, especially sexual things that they're doing.

And then he'll say, but in Russia, you know, that's not who we are. And it sounds really good to the ears of a lot of social conservatives in the United States and in the West more broadly. And they look there are people I know some of them who and I don't know that this is warranted, but there's many who look to Putin as kind of like he's going to be the one to preserve some semblance of what used to be Western civilization or some kind of a Christian influenced civilization.

So despite the fact that these churches are empty, is there any sense of that where you feel as a Protestant Christian living there, you the culture may be better for your children or that you feel more safe kind of that the threats that are facing the West aren't going to face you there?

Or is that all a mirage as well?

I've been living in Russia for almost 30 years. So so 20, 26 years now for 27 years. Part of that was as a child growing up, but still, you know, 11 years old and older, kind of aware of what was going on.

And everything I've seen in Russia culturally has has happened like clockwork with a 10 year lag. So it Russia looks to the West. The West is the capital of the world. Like that's that's, you know, the West in general, America in particular, New York, Washington, D .C., specifically London.

You know, that is Babylon, right? That's the great, you know, the great symbol of of worldly power and worldly people, no matter where they're at, they look to that and they are amazed. You know, they're infatuated with that.

And so we can talk about, oh, you know, those wicked people in America, those sodomites, those this, those that, you know, whatever. But in the end, that's what you're trying to do. You're heading that direction because the lust of the eyes, the lust of the flesh, the pride of life.

These are the things that the world are made up of. And if you're worldly in Russia, you're still made up of those things worldly, no matter where you're at. So what I see is, you know, the whole, you know, gay movement, big things, you know, really just exploded with, you know, gay rights and marriage in the United States.

What is that? 10 years ago, 12 years ago, a real serious move for that.

Yeah, yeah, you're right. It was about 10 or 12 years ago.

And then it and then it ramped up and then, you know, you got married and we see that starting to happen in Russia. Like we start seeing your first gay rights parades. It just takes 10 years. Give it 10 years and everything, everything happens.

So, you know, give it another 10 years and we'll be talking, you know, I don't know, social justice for those backs or something. Who knows? But so I don't see Putin as the great white hope or something, you know, I don't see Russia as the last bastion of Western civilization.

Russia has always put itself in contradiction to Western civilization. Russia has always positioned itself, even in the tsarist time, as we're not East, we're not West, we're the double-headed eagle.

We look both ways. We're something different. And this is something that the West needs to people who observe Russia from the West need to understand. Russia has always been a kind of third way and it's not representative of the West.

It's not representative of the East. Russia is a continent in and of itself. Look at the map, see the size, you know, get that understanding. And Putin is not some great hope for not the West, not for Christian cultural values, not Putin, not Trump.

What is the hope? Is the church, is the church being the church? That's, you know, the city on the hill, the salt, the light, the people of God, like that is the hope of the world. Well, as long as, as long as long as we put our hope into something other than where our hope should lay, which is Christ and his body, then we're, then we're going to be, we're going to be deceived.

And that's, that's the thing that we have to, we have to be careful about.

Civil Liberties, Anti-Missionary Laws, and the Limits of Escape

I think the reason the question arises and why I even want to ask it is because as we see civil liberties being cracked down on in the United States, specifically to propagate the gospel and to worship and in some municipalities and in some states that there, there have been problems.

We look to Canada and we see even bigger ones. You start asking the question like, well, is there a place that we can go and we can kind of do what you're doing? You know, raise our family in impurity and be able to homeschool them, be able to make the decisions parents should be able to make where we'll, we'll at least have the freedom to do that and have the freedom to go to church and worship the way that we want to.

Cause, because that's the fear is that the, the ability will be, there'll be a lot of barriers to it, to, to even do that. Do you, do you where you are? I know you're in more of a rural area and you're living this agrarian lifestyle, so it might be different than in Moscow, but do you feel somewhat safe or, or that's not the word you, do you feel at least that there will, that will be preserved for at least the foreseeable future where you are, that you'll be able to, to raise your family and have a church?

Or do you think those threats are coming your way as well?

Well, first of all, when you talk about the erosion of civil liberties in, in the United States, that's from the perspective of a culture and a society that's, that's used to having rights and civil liberties that are like right here, like at a, at a, at a nine on a scale of one to 10, you're kind of like, you've always been up around a nine, you know, somewhere around there.

And then, and then you look at Russia and you're like, they've never been up above much more of a four or five, you know? And you're like, oh man, we're losing our civil liberties, man. Maybe we should jump over there because they're, they don't seem to be decreasing over there, but they're already lower than you are, even in your decreased level, like 2016, 2016, there was the, what's called the Yerevoy Packet, which is a whole body of laws that went into, that went into effect.

They are colloquially vernacularly termed the anti-missionary laws, and they basically put a kobosh on anyone who is not Orthodox doing anything with any kind of proselytizing or trying to advance their mission.

124 missionaries have been, have been, have been deported since the beginning of the anti-missionary.

Laws.

How did I not get deported? Frankly, I don't quite know, other than the fact that A, I've tried to be careful, B, I've kind of popped there on YouTube and, and deporting that Mary Milkman would look kind of.

Bad.

So I really, it's, it's kind of a, it's kind of one of those situations, but like, I'm probably speaking out of turn here, but I regularly do things that should have already gotten me deported, like, and I know people who have been deported doing those same things.

So like, it's not like you come over to Russia and you're like the land of the free or something. I don't think America is that either. I think that's part of our mythos and that's part of our problem is that we've decided that, you know, this is something that it's not, but Russia, you know, again, you have to understand that as a foreigner in Russia, as a Russian in Russia, you'll have far less civil liberties than you would even in the decreased civil liberty environment in the United States.

As a foreigner in Russia, like, you know, you're a stranger in a strange land. And that is, comes with its own fears and its own set of dangers and that kind of thing. Home education is one of those things where Russia is still very free, but only compared to the most free country as home education goes in the entire world, which is the United States.

So there are certain states in the U .S. where the restrictions are worse than in Russia. There are a lot of states in the U .S. where the regulations are way easier than Russia. It really depends on what state you're in.

So that's just another thing. And I guess the final thing that I'd like to say on that issue is America has a language and a culture of rights, civil liberties, democracy, whatever, all that kind of good stuff.

Russia never has. And so any rights, liberties, democracy that Russia has at the moment is kind of a byproduct of whatever else they're trying to do. It's not an intentional thing. So the American society intentionally gives you civil liberties and intentionally takes them away.

Russian never intentionally gives you them. And if they happen to get taken away, that's also going to be just kind of an accident of, you know, how the society develops. So, you know, that's kind of the way that I see that.

OK, so don't come to Russia to escape the secularization of the West. You'll be disappointed. That's the the vibe I'm getting on that. But there are I'm sure there's other reasons because you're there and you're it seems like you're living a life that you're enjoying for the most part.

And you you're very passionate about your farm and your family and live in the life that you have there. Could you tell us a little bit about that? Because most people in the United States, even if they live in, you know, out in Oklahoma or something where there's farmland, they don't during the middle of their life decide, well, I'm just going to be a farmer, you know.

So what kind of I mean, did you just start getting get into it because you said, well, that's what most of the people in my area do. But then you loved it. Or how did that happen?

Tentmaking, Farming, and a Home-Centered Life

It was kind of a couple of things. Like I said, we'd always been trying to do some tent ministry things and making tent making ministry, no tent making things where we were working, trying to make little businesses that could help support the ministry, help, you know, even if you have some kind of a missions income, even if you have something going on, then anything that you can do on the side augments that it gives you the ability to do more, that kind of thing.

So also trying to make sure that our ministry was self-supported from inside the country so that if I had to leave, if financing, you know, completely dried up for some reason, that the work that I do isn't isn't dependent on that.

So that's kind of what we're always trying to do. And I'd gotten myself into a big project, which ended up being a nightmare project. It was a sawmill. So we started making lumber and we were exporting to Germany.

It was this big business. And we had like 25 employees and it was like this big deal. And it was, it was, it, it would kind of gotten to where I was. I was more of a, of a sawmill operator than I was a missionary.

And it was really driving me crazy, pulling my hair out. And I had this little garden and a couple of pigs in my backyard at my house. And I'd come home from the sawmill, like literally like just shaking from, from nerves and be like, oh, and then I'd go and I'd be like, feed my chickens and feed my pig and like work in my garden and like calm down.

And then one day I was just looking around like, man, I like this. I don't like that. Maybe I should just be doing this. One of those brilliant moments. So that's kind of how, that's kind of how I got, like, I saw that I wanted something simpler.

I saw that I wanted a, what I call a home centered life. I wanted, I wanted something that when I did at that point, I didn't have a wife or kids, but when I did get a wife and kids, I wanted to be able to do something that I could involve my children with in my work and my life.

So I also wanted to do this tent making thing. And I started re-examining the scripture and Paul in Acts, when he's giving his farewell address to the Ephesian elders, he says, you know, what manner of life I lived among you that I coveted no man's silver or gold or their clothing, but that I always worked with my own hands to provide for those who were with me and for my own needs, showing you that what the, what the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, that he said that it's better to give than to receive.

And I just like, it jumped out at me. Like I'd never with my own hands. And that was a, this is a sort of a size of business. I think it's at least a hint at if you are in ministry.

Yeah.

By vocationalism, sure. It works. It's great. But if you're in a situation where your secondary vocation, you know, you're the business that you're trying to run to support you has gotten to where you're, you know, managing managers and it's this big giant thing, and you're no longer working with your own hands, you're probably in a space, in a head space that you're not able to actually do the ministry.

And I took that away from me personally. It's not something that I project on anyone else, but it's something that I take away that, that that's, that's the size we want to, we want to stay at. So right now I've got the biggest farm that I think we'll ever have.

It's the four family farm. And that's me and three other guys. And I do the milking in the morning. I also keep the books. I do, you know, PR, advertising, sales. And, but I actually do the milking every single morning, every single evening, help process the milk.

And then there's three other guys who do the other, other parts of the work and trying to keep that, that, that size that it feeds us. It's never going to be a big giant agrarian concern, but it's going to be something that will keep us going for the future.

Well, it sounds like it's a good human scale kind of a situation where you're not completely overwhelmed, but you can do what the main things the Lord calls you to. So, I mean, is this a kind of, I know you said you wouldn't push this on people, but sounds like it might be something you recommend people consider a home education and a agrarian type of living is, I mean, if someone wanted to get into this, what would you, what advice would you give them?

Home Education and Agrarian Family Life

Well, the part that I'm not pushing on people is some sort of a doctrinal position on what size of business need to be, to be considered tent making. I think it's a real good sort of a test and a real good general recommendation.

But of course, I'm not trying to say that doctrinally. What I am pushing on people like full on education and jam it down our throats.

Let's hear it.

Yeah.

So, yeah, we are totally, you know, we totally promote, you know, home education. And I personally believe that to raise a family, one of the best contexts, one of the best environments is either like part-time farming where you're just doing it to have an addition to your own, you know, budget, like as a help or, you know, small scale farming where that's actually your main source of income.