Does P*rn DISQUALIFY Pastors From Ministry? | Pastor Reacts

At what point is involvement with pornography? You have no right to stand up and preach.

You are not qualified for ministry. How far is that? What does it take to disqualify someone from ministry?

Right? Is there a criteria for this that we can turn to in the scripture? I think the answer is yes. But let me propose an obvious solution to all of this that I think few churches, in my experience, are doing, but it would immediately solve this potential issue.

You ready for this? Does watching filthy videos disqualify pastors from ministry?

If you said yes, then when does it disqualify them? That's a tough question to wrestle with, but that's exactly what we're going to do in this video.

Today, we're looking at a fascinating discussion between Mark Driscoll, James McDonald, and more on whether filthy videos disqualifies pastors in ministry.

But also, we're just going to let the Bible answer this question as well. So stay tuned for all of that. If you're new here, welcome.

My name is Nate Sala, and this is Wise Disciple, where I'm helping you become the effective Christian that you are meant to be. Before I jumped into this ministry,

I was a pastor and a Bible teacher, and it's from those experiences that I make these videos. Be sure to like and subscribe to the channel, and do me a favor.

Would you share this video with someone else so that we can get the word out about this ministry? I'd really appreciate it. Also, I partnered with Logos, because it is the

Bible software that I use to study the Bible, and it will level up your knowledge of the scripture as well.

Go to logos .com forward slash wise disciple for some awesome discounts. The link for that is below. At what point is involvement with pornography disqualifying?

Like, okay, so you looked at a picture four years ago, or at what point is involvement with pornography, you have no right to stand up and preach.

You are not qualified for ministry. How far is that? Mark? So it's not lost on me, the irony of talking about disqualification and seeing who's discussing it at the table.

We've got James McDonald and Mark Driscoll literally side by side discussing who's qualified to be in ministry.

And I don't bring this up to be sarcastic. I just know what's happened to these men and what happened to even

Matt Chandler recently, who's also at the table. So the question is appropriate, but I bring this up to say that in as much as these men are going to wrestle with the answer to the best of their knowledge, it applies to everyone, including them, including me.

This is one of those questions that we all need to take very seriously. Yeah, I mean, we assess in Acts 29 church planners.

We're assessing upwards of 500 potential church planners in the pipeline consistently.

So there's 500 guys right now. And this is not an issue. This is the issue.

And I was graced of God to grow up before the internet. Right. I mean, so... Ditto. I was just talking to my wife about this the other day.

My wife and I grew up in the late 90s and early aughts, okay? The internet, when

I was originally in college, was just a bunch of chat boards and that weird static noise when you originally started up AOL.

Who remembers that, right? You're probably hearing that sound in your mind right now, like me, right? But man,

I'm so grateful that my stupid mistakes and the things that I said and did as a non -believer, so arrogant, so filled with anger and hatred.

And it still makes me cringe to think of it, that this was not documented for everyone to see forever.

And I'm also grateful that the proliferation of internet content was not the way it is now, back then when

I was coming up. In other words, it was not as easy to sin using the internet the way it is now.

And I'm really grateful for that. You know, the internet didn't go online until we'd started the church.

I can't even imagine how the number one consumer pornography is 12 to 17 -year -old boys. Number one consumer pornography is 12 to 17 -year -old boys.

Well, and worse than that, exposure to pornography starts around the age of eight years old. That's how prevalent and far -reaching this problem is.

Which by the way, that's not theoretical for me. My youngest son is eight years old. And I, man,

I think about this just about every single day, you know, how my wife and I are doing everything we can to guard him and his brother from ever seeing and struggling with what many their age are today.

And so to say it's an epidemic is to sort of understate the issue. And it's not just boys, it's girls and women as well.

And so, you know, you wanna create a culture where people can be honest about their struggles and open to accountability.

But at the same time, for those who are in leadership, there is a point where you need to be above reproach. You need to set a good example.

And it's not just authenticity, it's holiness, which is put your sins to death because that's why Jesus died.

Don't manage them, kill them. So for me, it's in the context of not just pornography, but also lust.

I've seen a lot of guys who aren't into pornography, but they're into inappropriate emotional relationships with women in the church.

I've seen dirty old deacons, making sure every gal under 25 gets a big hug at the door that takes a little while, you know?

So, I mean, I've seen all kinds of things that troubled me deeply. So pornography is, you know, it is a bullseye, but there's a whole target of things there.

When you're going to Timothy and Titus, you're looking at - So Driscoll's right. And he actually alluded to three things from the scripture that I think help us answer this question.

He talked about, number one, being above reproach, about killing sins or putting sins to death, right?

He also brought up lust as well. So let's just take a look at these one at a time.

First Timothy chapter three, verse one, the saying is trustworthy. If anyone aspires to the office of overseer, he desires a noble task.

Therefore, an overseer must be above reproach, okay? Now let's notice something else really quick about this kind of person.

The husband of one wife, sober -minded, here it is, self -controlled.

You know what? Let's come back to this in a moment, okay? But take a look at that. That's first Timothy three. Let's also take a look at Titus chapter one really quick.

Titus chapter one, verse six. If anyone is above reproach, there it is again. The husband of one wife and his children are believers and not open to the charge of debauchery or insubordination.

For an overseer as God's steward must be above reproach. Look at that. Paul says it twice.

He must not be arrogant or quick -tempered or drunkard or violent or greedy for gain, right?

And this, again, this person, look at this, needs to control themselves. Why? Well, because as Driscoll said, it's about lust.

Lust of the eyes, right? First John two says this. Verse 16, for all that is in the world, the desires of the flesh, the desires of the eyes, and the pride of life is not from the father, but it's from the world.

The desires of the eyes, the lust of the eyes, right? And our journey as followers of Jesus Christ and sons and daughters of the living

God is to control those desires, to control our passions, which takes us back to the failure in the

Garden of Eden. That's what got the ball of sin rolling in the first place. Letting the passions control the person.

The Lord says, don't do that. Don't be like Adam and Eve, be self -controlled. And the

Bible actually gives us a way of killing our sin. Take a look at this. This is Romans six, verse 12.

Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body to make you obey its passions, okay?

Verse 13, do not present your members to sin as instruments for unrighteousness, but here's the formula, present yourselves to God as those who have been brought from death to life and your members to God as instruments for righteousness.

For those of you right now who are struggling maybe with this particular sin that we're talking about, that Mark Driscoll is talking about with James McDonald or any persistent sin, this verse, this passage is your formula to kill that sin.

You need to stare at this passage. You need to study it. You need to memorize it. You need to seek to understand what these two powerful verses really mean for you in your life.

Again, why is this important? Because if we don't control our desires, they will consume us.

That's what they're talking about here. That's what we're talking about right now, okay? It's a consuming desire.

It's a consuming passion that expresses itself in various ways. But lust is absolutely the driving factor that culminates in looking at filthy videos and letting that drive you to see more.

But that one woman man. Yeah, but that guy in the lobby of the church, that's probably because he just can't bring his computer to church with him.

Like the idea that, well, that's his only problem. I'm saying that's probably the tip of that iceberg.

It could be. But the issue is lust. Pornography is, you know, is the...

One avenue for the expression. One avenue of the lust, but it's an unhealthy... So for me,

I mean, if it's habitual, disqualifying. When is it habitual? I mean...

That's Driscoll's answer. Did you catch it? Driscoll just gave his answer. Okay, pay attention.

If it's not, I mean, I don't know. You know, this is one of those issues... Once a year, once a quarter, once a month, once a week.

Once a week, once a month, once a quarter. I mean, I am beginning a church discipline process for the leader.

I'm bringing him through our redemption group curriculum. I'm trying to figure out if he was sexually abused. And we deal with thousands of sexual abuse victims.

I'm trying to figure out when this problem started. I'm trying to figure out what's going on in his marriage and unpacking it all and trying to get a, you know, a real clear understanding of exactly how deep does this root go and what are we dealing with here?

So notice the hesitation on the part of Driscoll. Okay, once a week, once a month, once a year.

It seems like he's not quite sure. And I understand that because if you ask five pastors this question,

I bet you're going to get five different answers. By the way, we're going to go to the scripture in a moment and we're going to see if we can discover an answer.

So stick with me. But to recap, Driscoll was asked the question, when is a pastor disqualified from ministry by looking at filthy videos?

His answer was, when it's habitual. Okay, but what does that mean? You know, it creates the,

I mean, I've been doing a lot of work on this sort of book on Marriage of Grace. There's a whole chapter in there on pornography just finished. And this book,

Wired for Intimacy is really good. It deals with the neurochemical pathways where guys biologically addict themselves to pornography and getting a guy off of porn's kind of like getting somebody off of heroin.

I mean, it's not just, hey, go to a two -week rehab and then come back. And I mean, I know churches that have done that.

Guys had a major porn addiction, didn't confess, got caught. And they sent him away to rehab for two weeks and him and his wife get to stay in the

Motel 6 and go on vacation. And then it's all better because he said he was sorry. So I've heard pastors talk like this before.

And I totally understand why Driscoll is talking about addiction. He's talking about biology.

But my personal opinion is this is an unhelpful way to talk about struggling in persistent sin.

Why? Well, because the Bible doesn't describe it that way. Now, don't get me wrong. There are legitimate issues that cause people to struggle and suffer that absolutely require the help of medical professionals.

So don't get me wrong there. I doubt that's this particular issue though.

And to highlight what the neurological changes in the brain and what that looks like, and then to pin discussion of addiction at the top of the descriptions that we use in this area of struggle is ultimately to give folks, particularly young men, the wrong impression, which is that they are victims of their sin.

They're not. If you're watching me right now and you're currently struggling with this sin, let me tell you in full confidence, you are not a victim of your sin.

You can absolutely kill this sin and be free from it if you pay close attention to what the

Bible teaches you. Again, take a look at, we just read it, Romans 6, 12 and 13, to see how this formula of killing sin works.

So I'm starting to deviate from the focus of this video. So we're gonna get back to the discussion, but just know, I have had the privilege of watching young men get free from their desire to look at filthy videos because they took

Paul seriously in Romans 6, 12. If he says, put it to death, that means you absolutely can.

It is possible for you in the name of Jesus. Do not ever think that you are a victim of your sin.

Well, he hasn't dug the root out. So sometimes the most loving thing to do is get the person out of ministry, get that pressure off of them, not set a restoration date because they'll just white knuckle it to the finish line and say, let's put the sin to death.

And if, and when the day comes, we feel like, you know, you're trustworthy in leadership and this pressure won't exacerbate your temptation, maybe then we'll consider considering it.

But I tend to be hyper conservative on this because I grew up behind a strip club with a bunch of serial killers and found dead bodies of prostitutes at my little league field.

I mean, so, you know, I've kind of seen the other side of this. What? Does, does anybody know about this?

Mark Driscoll grew up next to where serial killers dumped their victims in his little league field.

That, that, that's wild. What a, what a thing to see when you're a kid.

Boy, that's - Where that goes, Perry? You know, James, that's a sensitive issue with me because there is sexual abuse in my past.

I was sexually abused as a child a little bit. And, and I was introduced to pornography in the fifth grade.

My father bought a, one of those big humongous satellite dishes about the size of the studio when we were in the eighth grade.

And I knew where the porn channel was because my father would allow me to watch it. He actually watched it with me. And so when

I came to Christ in 1990, I did not, I did not get set free from my pornography addiction until 1999.

Now, I fought for nine years. I fought hard. I cried. I prayed. I begged, I begged

God to kill me. I was, I was desperate. I wanted out of that. But I didn't feel like I could go tell anybody because it was, it was, nobody talked about that.

No, nobody talked about that. And - Well, and they largely still don't, unfortunately.

Young people are struggling, but they feel like they cannot confess to this particular sin. Why? Well, maybe it's because they want to hide it, right?

They don't want it to bring it, to bring it out into the light. But maybe it's also because a lot of us in the church don't know how to help each other, which entails hearing about everyone's particular struggles and sin.

Hey, real quick. I hope this video is blessing you. Would you do me a favor and like and subscribe to the channel? It really does help me to get this video out to more and more people.

I really do appreciate it. James 5 verse 16 says, therefore confess your sins to one another and pray for one another that you may be healed.

The prayer of a righteous person has great power as it is working. We don't know how to confess in this way to each other.

And a lot of us don't know how to hear other people's confessions of the struggles that they have in sin.

And it obviously changes depending on your church, but across the board, there is such a stigma attached to this particular sin of watching the filthy videos, right?

It just, it makes it hard for those who struggle to feel safe enough to go to a brother and sister and be open about this struggle.

And that's a real shame. When I was addicted to porn, you actually had to go buy the magazines.

You couldn't download it. And so when I hear somebody is addicted to porn or when

I hear somebody's looked at pornography, first of all, my heart breaks for them. I feel compassion for them because I'm like,

I was there for nine years as a believer. I know what you're going through. But my second thing is

I need to get you out of your ministry position right now. Not because I hate you, not because you suck as an individual, but because I know what you're going through.

And like you said, the pressure of ministry might be actually one of those things that you use as an excuse.

It's not what's driving you, but you're using it as an excuse to drive you to the pornography. So I wanna remove them.

I wanna get them help. I wanna assist them, not set a restoration date, but take them through a process where that they can discover, hopefully not in nine years, the freedom that I've discovered from it.

Well, the first book I wrote on this subject. Who is this? This is Perry Noble. Noble says immediately, that's his answer.

For pastors struggling in this area, they are disqualified immediately. By the way, what's your answer to this question?

Whether you're a pastor or a congregant, I think we all should have an answer to this question, right?

Let me know in the comments. I'm curious to get your thoughts. I think Perry's right. Perry Noble.

I think he's right. And in a moment, we're gonna see if the scripture backs this up, but let's finish the discussion here.

There's about a minute left. And subjects like this, areas of addiction and habitual sin confess, sin confess, sin confess.

It's called, I Really Want to Change, So Help Me God. It deals with Romans six and Romans seven and what it means to really be dead to sin and the power that God gives us over that.

Right. I will say this, that men open up in these contexts.

They need two things. They need confidentiality. Men don't bring their sin out unless they're in a relationship where they're confident that it will be confidential.

So you just need to know that. They don't bring it forward if they're afraid you're gonna go tell their wife, go tell their pastor, go tell her.

They got to know it's gonna be confidential. And then the second thing is, is they gotta know that it's gonna be reciprocal. So whatever you're, you've really helped all of us with your disclosure.

I think that there has to be, you have to be willing to tell your story, whatever it is. You don't have to have the same problem the guy has, but you gotta be willing to come clean about your story, whatever it is.

Where there's confidentiality and reciprocation, men will open up.

And that's what we need. We desperately need a James 5, 16 experience in our church. Confess your sins to one another.

We only know that only Jesus can confess sin. We don't need to go to some priest to confess our sins for forgiveness, but we do go to one another to confess our sins for assurance of forgiveness and for accountability for victory.

So James 5, 16, confess your sins to one another and pray for one another that you may be healed. All right.

Okay. So it looks like some of these things I already brought up, so that's good.

But let's see if the scripture can guide us to an answer. Again, the question was, when is a pastor disqualified from ministry by looking at filthy videos?

First of all, I guess the way that you can think about it is what does it take to disqualify someone from ministry?

Right? Is there a criteria for this that we can turn to in the scripture? I think the answer is yes, but it's by looking at the inverse of what qualifies a person.

So in 1 Timothy 3, we see a helpful list of character attributes that describe the type of person who is qualified to be an elder, to be an overseer in 1

Timothy 3. Titus says elder. Take a look at some of these qualifiers. He, an overseer must be above reproach, right?

The husband of one wife, sober -minded, self -controlled, respectable, hospitable, able to teach, not a drunkard, not violent, but gentle, not quarrelsome, not a lover of money.

He must manage his own household well with all dignity, keeping his children submissive. For if someone does not know how to manage his own household, how will he care for God's church?

He must not be a recent convert or he may become puffed up with conceit and fall into the condemnation of the devil.

Moreover, he must be well thought of by outsiders so that he may not fall into disgrace into a snare of the devil.

That narrows the field tremendously, does it not? By the way, have you ever paid attention to verse seven before? This type of person must be well thought of by outsiders.

Like how many pastors are truly living up to this full description, right? That's another video for another day.

The point is the inverse of these particular characteristics gives us the answer.

So for example, let's say a pastor is in leadership and preaching at the pulpit, but one day it comes out that he's an alcoholic.

Not that he drinks wine every now and then, but that he's actually an alcoholic. Out of necessity, he should step down and receive the help that he needs.

Why? Because of verse three, not a drunkard, right? The pastor at the pulpit is not living up to the expectation given in verse three of an overseer.

Okay, again, the same description is given in Titus chapter one. Look at this. If anyone is above reproach, there it is.

The husband of one wife and his children are believers and not open to the charge of debauchery or insubordination. For an overseer as God's steward must be above reproach.

Here it is. He must not be arrogant or quick -tempered or a drunkard or violent or greedy for gain, but hospitable, a lover of good, self -controlled, upright, holy, and disciplined.

He must hold firm to the trustworthy word as taught so that he may be able to give instruction in sound doctrine and also to rebuke those who contradict it.

A lot of the same qualifiers there in Titus as in first Timothy, right? Now, here's the question.

Is there a timetable for this, right? Like how long does a pastor have to violate these descriptors before they are disqualified?

I don't think the Bible is interested in timetables. I think the Bible is interested in whether or not these folks display the qualities necessary to be an overseer or an elder, okay?

So in other words, I think it's up to the church to decide when that happens. Okay, there's a little bit of wiggle room.

There's a little bit of leeway. Perhaps that's why Driscoll hesitated when he was asked, you know, once a week, once a month, once a year, right?

But let me propose an obvious solution to all of this that I think few churches in my experience are doing, but it would immediately solve this potential issue.

You ready for this? Pastors need accountability. They need a brother who is presumably older, wiser, and can speak into the pastor's life and give them counsel and ask them about their struggles and just walk alongside them on a consistent basis.

And this isn't some exercise that takes place once, you know, or biannually or something, you know, this is something that needs to happen weekly.

Why? Well, because everyone, including the senior pastor, is still a sinner that needs more sanctifying.

And so of course they need brothers around them to hold them accountable. Everybody does. Nobody is immune to needing accountability.

And when this dynamic takes place, watch this, the moment that a pastor begins to struggle in certain areas, including lust, right?

This is immediately confessed. It's immediately addressed within this dynamic of accountability so that the sin can be dealt with.

And yes, in this dynamic, I think watching filthy movies counts as immediate disqualification from ministry.

So I agree with Noble on this one. But if this dynamic exists between pastor and accountability partner, it is now able to be addressed immediately.

This problem, you see that, right? But here's the issue. Many pastors are just floating, okay?

They're out there in the wide open ocean with no buoys, no lifelines, nobody to talk to or to hold them accountable.

Or they're playing a silly game of partial accountability or maybe even pretend accountability while at the same time, they're hiding their deepest, darkest secrets like way down deep where nobody can know about it, not even their accountability partner.

And that very often leads to spiritual damage. And that damage will, it will grow and go beyond the pastor with whatever personal thing they're struggling with and it will hurt other people as well, okay?

It begins on a personal level with the church leader, but then that damage spreads as they wield their authority to others in the church.

Pastors need accountability. So that these issues can be nipped in the bud immediately.

Because I think while the Bible does not give a timetable for this kind of thing, when someone objectively falls short of, you know, the qualifications that we see here, necessary to be an elder, to be an overseer, right?

They should be removed right away if nothing else to safeguard the sheep from the potential damage that will come if this sin rides the coattails of the pastor's authority and hurts other people too.

It's a sobering thought, you know? And it should give everyone pause, those in leadership and those who aspire to be in leadership, right?

That these types of individuals should be self -controlled, but that they also should be beyond reproach, right?

By the way, self -controlled is a reference to controlling your desires, which includes lust, okay?

But the whole issue of being above reproach, right?

Not only, you know, I like how in Titus, it's listed twice, okay? But this idea of being above reproach, it just,

I think it forces people, all of us, to realize that there is a higher calling to the office of elder and overseer.

And this higher calling just cannot be fulfilled if nobody is able to hold these pastors accountable in the first place, right?

Like, think about that. How can anyone know if a pastor is above reproach if they're not truly held accountable?

Does that make sense? Okay, well, those are my thoughts on this issue, but now it's your turn.

What's your answer? When is a pastor disqualified from ministry? What other passages of the scripture speak to this issue?

Let me know in the comments below. I am curious to get your thoughts on that one. As always, if you made it this far, you gotta join the

Patreon community. We're reading the Bible together right now, going through the Gospel of Matthew. It's turning out to be a wonderful study.

You can access all of that for free. There's no cost to that at all. If you do wanna actually financially support me, which is how

I make these videos in the first place, you can get exclusive access to videos like this before they make it on YouTube. You can join me for live streams.

I'm about to do another one tonight with the Patreon. You can ask me anything you want. The link for the Patreon is below, but hey,