Objections and Objectors We Face

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I want to ask you to open your Bibles with me and we're going to turn to the 26th chapter of the book of Proverbs.
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And I'm going to have Cody pass out the handouts.
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The text that I'll be reading from is printed on the handout, the ESV, but I know some of you have different translations.
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This particular text is one that some people have accused as being an example of contradiction in Scripture.
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Later on, I'm going to show that it is not a contradiction at all.
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In fact, it's interesting that anyone would consider it a contradiction seeing as it's literally written one verse after the next.
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And we have to give the Bible Scripture writers some credit to think that they would know if they wrote one thing that contradicted the next thing right after they wrote that one thing.
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You know, because it's literally one right after the other.
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But as I said, it's not a contradiction, but it is an important truth and it's going to be the foundation for some of our lesson this evening.
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The title of tonight's lesson is Objections and the Objectors We Face.
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So the heart of tonight's lesson is going to be looking at the objections that we come on when we are sharing our faith and the nature of the folks who make those objections.
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So let's look first at the text in Proverbs 26, verses 4 and 5.
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Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest you be like him yourself.
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Verse 5.
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Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he be wise in his own eyes.
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You see where some might find there a point of contradiction.
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Verse 4 says, answer not a fool according to his folly.
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And verse 5 says, answer a fool according to his folly.
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Seemingly giving two contradictory pieces of advice.
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But as I said later, I will explain why it might be considered a paradox, but it's certainly not a contradiction.
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And hopefully help make some sense of that.
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But before I do that, I want to go through our lesson.
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Because as I said, this is all sort of bound together.
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Over the past several weeks, we have been studying the subject of apologetics.
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Does anybody remember what the word apologetics means? What is apologetics? To give a defense.
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That's right.
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To give an answer or a defense for what we believe as Christians.
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And I'm going to ask you, how many of you remember the three schools of thought for apologetics? There are three different methodologies.
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You could say there are more, but there are certainly not less than three schools of thought on apologetics.
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Anybody remember what they are? Evidential, classical, and presuppositional.
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Evidential, well classical I put first only because in the order of our lesson, that was the first thing we talked about, then evidential, then presuppositional.
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Remember that classical begins with the rational arguments for the existence of God, proving what we live in a theistic universe, and then makes its points that this is actually the God who exists as the God of the Bible.
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Evidential begins seeking to look at empirical data on the existence of God from a viewpoint of neutrality.
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And presuppositional begins with presupposing the existence of God as the foundation of all logical discourse.
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And as I have stated, unashamedly, I consider myself a presuppositionalist.
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That doesn't mean you have to be, but since this is a course I'm teaching, I get to lead it in the way that I would believe and teach.
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And when you get ready to teach a course, I'll let you do it your way.
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How about that? But I do think that I'm making an argument from scripture or I wouldn't be teaching it.
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Because even though I'm a presuppositionalist, I do not abandon logic and reason, so I'm not totally divorced from the classical position.
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Neither do I ignore evidences that point to the existence of God or the truth of the Bible, so I've not abandoned or divorced myself from evidentialism.
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The main difference, as I have said, is that I begin all of my apologetic encounters with the presupposition that God exists, and not just any God, but the God of the Bible.
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And as such, I presuppose the Bible is true.
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So, there's two major presuppositions that I bring to the table.
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That God exists and not just any God, but the God of the Bible, and as such, I believe the Bible, of course, is true.
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Now, I am fully aware that there are those who disagree, and I know this might be kind of a weird way to start, but I spent a week away, or four days away, and while I was away, I had an opportunity to do a lot of listening.
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I listen as I drive.
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A lot of times, if I know I'm going to be an hour or two on the road, I'll pull up a sermon, or I'll pull up a debate, or I'll pull up a lecture, and I'll put it in the speakers of the car, and kids put their headphones in.
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They don't want to listen to what dad's listening to, so, ordinarily.
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But, you know, I'll listen to Dr.
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White, do a debate, or something.
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So, while I was on my way on our trip this past week, I listened to Dr.
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R.C.
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Sproul, and I love Dr.
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R.C.
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Sproul, but he is one of the most vocal opponents of presuppositional apologetics, and I consider him a hero.
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He's my hero, one of them.
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So, that hurts a little.
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It hurts a little bit, because he stuck it to it pretty hard.
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But, I want to take a moment to say this.
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He's a classical apologist, by the way.
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Takes a classical approach to presuppositionalism, and he considers, or classical approach to apologetics, considers presuppositionalism an exercise in circular reasoning, and he even had a debate with Dr.
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Greg Bonson, one of the great students of the late Cornelius Van Till.
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Both of them are late.
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Greg died of cancer early, as a young man, as well.
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But, Greg Bonson debated R.C.
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Sproul on this topic.
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They were both believers.
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They both loved each other.
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It was not a contentious debate at all, but they debated the subject of apologetic methodologies.
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I think those are helpful.
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You know, those get both sides, share their thoughts.
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And, this is why I went and listened to the debate, got part of it, took some notes.
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And, I want to share with you something that R.C.
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said, and this is a man I love, and if he were here today, I'd shake his hand and give him a hug.
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I have no ill will towards R.C.
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Sproul at all.
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I love him, and I think he's done more for the kingdom than I'll ever do.
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God has just used him mightily.
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But, I want to say this.
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He said this talking to Bonson, and this is where I cannot go with him.
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He says in the debate, quote, I cannot know for certain that God exists.
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I can have full assurance in my heart when the internal testimony of the Holy Spirit comes.
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You see, I look at the evidence, and I know the evidence is overwhelming.
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But, I cannot know for certain that God exists.
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Later, he says in a joking way, how do I know the internal work of the Spirit isn't just the Holy Spirit giving me indigestion? He's joking at that point, and he even says he's playing devil's advocate.
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But, he sort of shoots himself in the foot, because he says I have an internal testimony, and then later he says that really doesn't mean a whole lot.
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And, it reminded me of Dr.
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William Lane Craig.
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Now, Dr.
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William Lane Craig, if you've never heard of him, he is one of the foremost Christian philosophers in the world, and he does debate with atheists on college campuses and stuff.
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But, William Lane Craig is also a classical apologist, and when he was debating Lawrence Krauss, who was a very famous atheist, debating on this subject, he was asked, are you certain God exists? And, he screamed out, no, with a little bit of a laugh.
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No, I'm not certain.
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It's on YouTube, look it up.
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And, as much as I love R.C., and as much as I appreciate Dr.
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Craig, and I would not doubt either one of their salvation, neither their commitment to apologetics, but this is where I believe the problem lies with classical and evidential apologetics, because they both will not say for certain that God exists.
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Instead, they both claim that the preponderance of the evidence points to the higher probability of the existence of God.
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Beloved, that is not what the Bible says.
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The Bible does not say that the preponderance of the evidence points to the higher probability of the existence of God.
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The Bible says God exists and all men know it.
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The Bible not only says that all men are certain that God exists, but so certain that they will be judged on that knowledge.
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So, I find myself at odds with people I love on this issue.
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But, I also have friends on this issue too.
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Dr.
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James White, Dr.
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Votie Balcombe, Scott Oliphant, and the late Greg Bonson and Cornelius Van Til would agree with me.
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So, I don't feel so bad.
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I'm not all alone.
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But, I did want to point that out because I spent some time listening.
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And as I said, Dr.
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Sproul did make some good points about circular reasoning and how we should be careful of that.
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But, at the end of the day, when all you have is the greater preponderance of the evidence points to the probability of God, you don't have a proclamation of truth.
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You have a proclamation of probably.
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Because if the greater preponderance of the evidence points to the probability of God, that means there's also a probability that He might not be.
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We don't go around proclaiming that God might be.
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We proclaim that God is.
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We don't proclaim that the evidence points to a maybe.
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We say that our scripture tells us for certain that all men know that He is.
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Now, you wanted to say something, dear? No, well, I wouldn't say he's betting his soul.
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Well, he's betting that God doesn't exist.
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Oh, no, he believes God exists.
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Don't get me wrong because he said I have full assurance.
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But, he doesn't equate assurance and certainty.
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And that is an issue.
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The difference between assurance and certainty.
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And it is a hard, there's a philosophical line.
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And he's making that line.
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But I say that all men know for certain.
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He says believers know with full assurance.
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And there's a distinction being made.
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And I don't, I want to be, I just want to be fair as much as I can to him, as much, you know, as much as I can, you know.
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Well, like I said, we, and that's what, the good thing about this, I will say this.
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Whether you are a classical apologist, whether you are an evidential apologist, or whether you're a presuppositional apologist, I could have been, I could have said whether you're classical, evidential, or right.
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No, that would have been really bad.
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No, I could say this.
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I could say, if you even have a position, that means you care enough to want to defend your faith.
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And that means you care enough to want to stand for the truth.
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That's good in itself.
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But there is, again, I think the foundation is the issue of whether or not we're saying for certain, or whether we're saying that the greater probability points to this.
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So I want to just remind you of some things that we've looked at so far.
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That was kind of a lengthy introduction.
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But here are the things that we've learned so far from Scripture.
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One, there are no neutral people.
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Two, all people know God exists and will be judged on the basis of that knowledge.
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Three, all people who deny God or worship other gods are suppressing a truth that they know.
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Four, their very ability to reason regarding the things of God have been corrupted by sin.
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And five, it requires a miracle of regeneration for a person to come to faith in Christ.
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Now, I don't expect you to write that down if you want to, I didn't put that in your notes.
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But that's basically what we've looked at the last few weeks.
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But if you want that, I'll do that.
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Just let me know afterwards and I'll photocopy my notes.
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Because those five things are foundational.
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I put it out on Facebook this week in preparation for this lesson, immediately got hit by an atheist.
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Who are you to say all men know God exists? What evidence can you provide? Did you see it? And you saw my response.
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Because he said, don't point to Scripture.
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Who are you to tell me I can't use Scripture? Well, the only people who wrote the Bible are people who had a vested interest.
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And I shot that out of the water.
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Saul of Tarsus had a vested interest in the reality of who Jesus was.
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He gave up his family.
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He gave up his position as a Pharisee.
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He went out as a missionary and died by getting his head chopped off.
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Yeah, he had a vested interest.
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He was going to get a lot out of that deal.
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It's ridiculous.
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Your argument is foolish.
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Anyway, tonight we're going to turn our attention to the objectors and the objections we face.
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And examining objections and objectors, we're going to maintain our presuppositional position.
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We're not going to run to classical and evidential apologetics.
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This is where often the wheels fall off the cart for presuppositionalists because they think the only way you can deal with people is with evidence and logic.
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But I'm going to show you there's a different way because, and this is the key, and this is on your notes.
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We are not arguing for the greater preponderance of the evidence which can only point to the probable existence of a God.
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We are declaring the certain existence of the God who is known by all men because He has made Himself known through both His creation and their consciences which bear witness to His existence.
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That's the key to all of this.
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I don't know how long this series is going to last.
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Originally, it was supposed to be six weeks.
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Now it could be 60 because I got a lot that's on my mind.
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But this is the heart of it.
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You need to understand what it is we're doing.
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We are not declaring a probability.
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We are declaring a certainty.
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And it's a certainty they know.
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That's key.
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That's where it's different.
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Will I point to evidence? Will I use logic? Yes, but I will never make them the judge.
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See, that's what evidentialism does.
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Here's the evidence.
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You be the judge.
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No man stands in judgment over God.
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They don't get to judge.
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God is the judge.
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And that's what I point out.
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God has given you evidence not to judge, but by which you will be judged.
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You're not the judge of the evidence.
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God is the judge of you.
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And this evidence will bear witness against you in eternity.
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That you knew and you suppressed that truth.
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All right.
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So here's what we're going to do.
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We're going to look at objections we face.
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And then we're going to look at objectors we face.
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And I'm going to put some stuff on the board.
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Hopefully, you'll be able to see these.
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These pens are a little thinner, but I think you guys can read it.
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All right.
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So the objections we face and the objectors.
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I spent time thinking about this.
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And I want you to know that I came tonight willing to be corrected.
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I'm always willing to be corrected, but even more so now.
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Because I was really thinking, racking my brain, praying, really kind of considering.
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And I was trying to think of categories of objections.
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And I could only come up with three categories.
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And every objection I could think of went to one of these three categories.
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Now, if you come up with a fourth category I didn't think of.
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You can add it.
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I'll add it to the notes.
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But I want to tell you, I haven't come up with any more.
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Because again, the reason why I'm categorizing is because the categorizing for me.
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And maybe this is just the way my mind works.
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Helps me to understand how to relate to the person I'm talking to.
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Where's the objection coming from? What is the objection? What is the overarching presupposition of this objection? Remember, presuppositional apologetics.
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What is the presupposition that's leading to this objection? Okay.
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So we're going to look at three.
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And again, if you have a fourth or even more, I'm totally cool with that.
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Objection number one.
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Objections about the existence and nature of God.
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That's number one.
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Existence and nature.
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Existence and nature of God.
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We're going to go back through these.
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But I'm going to go through them quick so you can write them down.
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Number two.
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Objections about the nature and reliability of scripture.
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So number two.
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The nature and reliability of scripture.
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Number three.
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The proper.
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You don't have to write the word proper.
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But if you want to maybe put it above.
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Because I didn't leave enough blank for you to write that in.
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But it's really because you could say the interpretation and application.
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But it should be the proper interpretation and proper application of scripture.
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So the interpretation and application of scripture.
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I honestly think that every conversation we have in an apologetic sense.
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Meaning we're having to give a defense.
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We'll fall into these categories.
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It's either going to be dealing with the existence and nature of God.
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It's going to be dealing with the nature and or reliability of the Bible.
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Or it is going to be dealing with the interpretation and application of the Bible.
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Now if you can come up with something else.
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Maybe you will in the weeks to come.
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And we can add something to this.
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But I'm going to go now and just sort of walk through what I mean.
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Okay.
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Well let's look first at the existence objection.
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What's an existence objection? Well somebody says I don't believe God exists.
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Because.
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And you can add whatever you want there.
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I can't see him.
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And if I can't see him.
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I don't believe he exists.
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Now how foolish is that objection? Because you know a hundred years ago we couldn't see bacteria.
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Maybe a little longer than that.
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But you understand just a few hundred years ago.
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We didn't have an electron microscope.
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We couldn't see DNA.
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It didn't mean it wasn't there.
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Exactly.
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And a lot of things we couldn't see.
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And yet were.
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And it took a greater ability to see.
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To see.
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Right.
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But that is one objection.
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But there are others.
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That's usually not.
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Usually won't get somebody to be so simple.
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But that is the heart of the existence argument.
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I don't see God.
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So I don't believe in God.
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But then there's the nature argument.
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And the nature argument.
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Deals more.
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With why I don't believe in God.
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Because the people normally won't be so.
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Well I want to say.
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I don't say foolish.
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But people normally won't be so.
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Simple.
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As to simply say.
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Well I can't see him.
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So he's not there.
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Even though there have been some people.
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Who've made that argument.
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I forget who it was.
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There was a.
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There was an astronaut.
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I think.
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And forgive me if I'm wrong.
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But it was something to the effect.
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I've been to space.
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And I didn't see God.
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Or something.
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Or maybe it was a mountain climber.
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Who said I've been to the top.
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And God wasn't there.
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But it was something you know.
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Very simple.
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Like you know.
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Well we've been out to outer space.
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And God's not there.
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You know.
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That's the existence argument.
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I just don't believe he exists.
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Yeah.
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Yeah we can see the effect.
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Absolutely.
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But you understand though.
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That's the existence argument.
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It's simply I just don't believe that he is.
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But the nature argument.
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Is more.
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It's more common.
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That if you are talking to someone.
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And they don't believe in God.
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More than likely.
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It's going to be something.
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Regarding his nature.
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For instance.
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I don't believe in God.
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Because there's so much evil in the world.
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And if there was a good God.
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And an all powerful God.
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Then he should do something about all the evil in the world.
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So I can't believe in God.
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In his existence.
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Because I can't believe in God.
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In his nature.
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You see.
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So it's existence and nature together.
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Nature.
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I'm sorry if you're having trouble seeing.
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Okay.
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The existence and nature.
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So nature.
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In my notes I put a second set.
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I said the nature argument.
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They're moral and ontological.
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And now I'm going to make it even worse on Chuck.
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He's having trouble seeing.
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And now I just wrote it even smaller.
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Under nature I put two.
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I put moral and ontological.
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The moral argument for God.
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The argument against God is the argument of evil.
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I just don't believe there's a good God.
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If there's evil in the world.
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Or he'd do something about it.
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But the ontological argument is a little bit more profound.
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But it comes across sort of childish.
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Because this is what they will say.
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I don't believe there's some guy in the sky looking at me.
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Right.
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You've heard that.
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Maybe not quite as poetic.
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But you've heard people say.
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I don't believe there's some man up in the heavens.
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Looking down at everything I do.
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And you see that may sound simplistic.
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But that is an ontological argument.
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Because one.
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They're making a point about the nature of God.
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As simply being a man type being.
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That's watching like men would watch.
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Right.
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And when somebody tells me.
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I don't believe in some guy in the sky.
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Who's just watching everything I do.
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I said.
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I don't either.
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I don't know what you're talking about.
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I don't even know what you mean.
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I know what they mean.
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But I'm just saying.
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You know.
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I kind of play along.
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What do you explain that? You know.
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You know one of the things that men desperately crave.
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Is privacy.
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Think about your computer and your phone.
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There are settings on it.
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That you can set.
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That will erase everything you do.
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For privacy sake.
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Even the watches.
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We bought our kids watches for Christmas.
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You know the little computer watch.
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I picked up my son's watch one day.
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And I picked it up to look at it.
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And it came up.
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The screen lit up.
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It's got this amazing.
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When you look at it.
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It opens up.
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And it was a code.
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And I said.
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What kind of man puts a code on.
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Every time you want to check the time.
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You got to put a code.
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But it's privacy.
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Wants that privacy.
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But you know what.
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One atheist.
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And I can't call his name now.
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And I'll try to remember it.
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To look it up for next week.
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He said that was the greatest fear.
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In believing in God.
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Was to know that he could never have privacy.
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Was to know that there was somebody.
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Always watching.
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So there's the ontological argument.
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I don't want to believe in God.
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I can't believe in God.
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Because that would mean.
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I don't have any privacy.
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You might think that's a silly argument.
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But that's an argument to a heart.
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That wants to be free from consequences.
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One of the greatest freedoms.
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That men want.
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Is the freedom to do what they want.
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Without consequence.
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And if God is watching.
28:16
There's consequences.
28:19
So the arguments against God.
28:22
Tend to be either about his existence.
28:25
Or about his nature.
28:29
Now moving on.
28:32
The arguments about scripture.
28:34
And I had to make it two.
28:36
I could have made it one long one.
28:38
The nature, reliability, interpretation, application of scripture.
28:41
That had been really long.
28:42
And I like to make them look even.
28:43
And I like things that come in threes.
28:45
So I put it in there.
28:48
To where we had two.
28:49
So the number two.
28:51
Is the nature and reliability of scripture.
28:54
Now here's a nature argument.
28:56
Regarding scripture.
28:58
And maybe you've heard this.
28:59
I don't believe the Bible.
29:02
Because the Bible was written by men.
29:07
Now I like what Votie Bauckham said.
29:10
He said.
29:12
Have you ever read a book that weren't written by a man? Have you ever read anything? Are you throwing out all your other books too? What do you mean you don't believe it? Because it was written by men.
29:23
That's the only way any book's ever been written.
29:28
You don't see all the college kids.
29:30
Going to their science textbooks.
29:32
And throwing them in the trash.
29:34
And saying to the professor.
29:34
I can't read this.
29:36
It was written by a man.
29:39
You understand? This is a ridiculous argument.
29:41
But that's the objection of the nature of scripture.
29:44
Because what we say the scripture is.
29:46
The word of God.
29:49
But we don't say that God wrote it.
29:52
We say God has superintended it's writing.
29:56
But men wrote the scriptures.
29:57
We do not.
29:58
You have to understand the doctrine of inspiration.
30:00
Which will be part of this course.
30:02
Because when we go through the apology.
30:03
Because each one of these.
30:05
Over the weeks to come.
30:05
We're going to break down.
30:06
And give how we would defend.
30:08
If somebody came at us with these.
30:09
Tonight's an overview.
30:11
But in the weeks to come.
30:11
We're going to be breaking these down.
30:13
But one of the things that we will deal with.
30:15
Is somebody saying.
30:16
About the scripture.
30:18
And in our response.
30:19
We believe the scripture is the word of God.
30:20
Why? We're going to talk about why.
30:23
Because there are why's to that.
30:26
But the heart of the matter is.
30:28
When somebody says the bible is written by man.
30:30
What they're saying is it wasn't written by God.
30:32
That's the heart of the objection.
30:35
They're saying it's not.
30:38
Been superintended by God.
30:40
Okay.
30:41
At least we know the objection right.
30:43
That's what tonight's about.
30:44
Know your objections.
30:45
Know your objectors.
30:47
We'll get to those in a minute.
30:49
Time must allow it.
30:52
Because I'm running.
30:52
I got a lot to say.
30:56
But then there's the reliability objections.
30:59
The nature objection is just written by men.
31:02
But the reliability objection is a little bit more.
31:08
I don't say it's more profound.
31:10
It's just more.
31:12
It's more well understood.
31:15
And wrongly understood.
31:16
And maybe that's difficult too.
31:20
People are saying something.
31:23
That they don't understand.
31:25
But they take it to be true.
31:29
They'll say something like this.
31:32
The bible has been rewritten many times.
31:36
So we can't know what it said.
31:39
I told you the story about the devils right.
31:42
The devils that came to the church.
31:46
I know you've heard it.
31:48
Pat's been here longer than anybody.
31:49
So she's heard it.
31:51
A few years ago we had a fall festival.
31:53
During the fall festival.
31:56
Two girls came to the church dressed as devils.
32:00
And I thought that was a little bit in poor taste.
32:02
But what are you going to do? Well I did walk over to them.
32:08
While they were sitting down having some punch.
32:09
And I sat down and I said.
32:11
Tell me about yourselves.
32:12
I didn't know them.
32:13
Tell me about yourselves.
32:14
So they started talking.
32:15
And started talking about the bible.
32:16
And one of the objections.
32:19
Was the bible has been written so many times.
32:21
And rewritten so many times.
32:24
We have no idea what it says.
32:28
Now I don't want to get into this.
32:29
I did say.
32:30
I said well I have a greek new testament inside.
32:32
You want to go read it with me? I wasn't trying to be a jerk.
32:35
I was just saying if we have the bible.
32:39
That was written in the original language.
32:42
So if I can prove to you.
32:46
That what this is.
32:47
Is actually what Paul wrote.
32:48
And what John wrote.
32:49
And what these people wrote.
32:50
Remember the presupposition though? No that wouldn't satisfy me.
32:53
Because it's not about evidence.
32:55
But that's her argument.
32:57
See.
32:58
It's not about evidence.
33:00
It's about a presupposition.
33:02
She doesn't believe the bible is true.
33:03
She hears something.
33:04
The bible has been rewritten many times.
33:06
So she holds on to that as her reasoning.
33:08
But it's not good reasoning.
33:09
Because she doesn't know historically.
33:11
She doesn't know anything about the history.
33:12
I said do you know anything about the transmission of the text? How the bible came to be in the form it is today? How we got the 66 books of the bible? And who wrote them? And when they were written? And what years they were written? Do you know any of this? No.
33:24
Why did you say what you said? Because you heard it on television.
33:29
You heard it on the History Channel.
33:31
Or the Discovery Channel.
33:32
Or the Disney Channel.
33:34
You heard it somewhere.
33:37
Or you thought it up yourself.
33:40
But it is saying so.
33:44
It's like the lady I remember.
33:45
I was sitting in Pizza Hut with a friend of my mother's.
33:47
My mom.
33:49
And she's sitting there.
33:50
And she goes.
33:52
I want to get a copy of what the bible was before King James came along and changed it.
34:01
And I was like just shoot me with a pepperoni.
34:05
What are you talking about? I don't have the capacity to deal with that.
34:11
It's just not there.
34:13
That was profoundly ignorant.
34:16
I didn't say that.
34:17
But I mean in my mind.
34:18
But what are you even talking about? King James didn't have nothing to do with the King James Bible.
34:24
It was dedicated to the King.
34:26
Over 40 different scholars used the available manuscripts that they had.
34:35
Handwritten Greek manuscripts and Hebrew manuscripts to translate it into English.
34:40
And it wasn't the first English translation.
34:42
The Geneva Bible and several other bibles were translated prior to the King James Bible.
34:46
It was just the first one that had a dedication to the King.
34:52
And it was done by the order of the King.
35:01
Yeah.
35:02
It had the approval of the King.
35:03
That's what I meant to say.
35:04
So.
35:05
But anyway.
35:07
I've veered.
35:08
But you understand what I'm saying? The objection is about the nature of scripture.
35:13
Or the reliability of scripture.
35:16
There are answers to these questions.
35:19
And we should know the answers.
35:21
And by the end of this course, hopefully you'll know better the answers.
35:25
But the next is the interpretation application.
35:28
The interpretation application is very important and should never be.
35:33
Because a lot of people might not disbelieve the Bible.
35:36
But they'll disbelieve what you're saying about the Bible.
35:39
As you say, you must believe in Jesus to be saved.
35:42
I don't believe that.
35:43
Well, this is what the Bible says.
35:44
Well, that's your opinion.
35:46
That's your interpretation.
35:48
It's not an interpretation.
35:50
Words have meaning.
35:52
And that's the words.
35:54
I mean, it really isn't.
35:56
When Jesus says, I am the way and the truth and the life.
35:59
And no one comes to the Father but through me.
36:03
That cannot be interpreted outside of the exclusivity of Christ.
36:09
Now, it can be wrongly misconstrued and misinterpreted by the other side.
36:16
But there really isn't a way to interpret it properly.
36:20
And leave the exclusivity of Christ.
36:25
But you will hear people say, that's just your understanding.
36:28
Y'all know who Oprah Winfrey is? I remember Oprah.
36:33
Yeah, like they wouldn't know.
36:35
I remember Oprah.
36:39
Very famous.
36:40
You can find this clip.
36:41
Very easy to find.
36:43
She was asked.
36:46
No, I'm sorry.
36:47
She wasn't.
36:48
She was told.
36:48
There's a lady in her audience.
36:49
They were having a conversation where the audience could interact.
36:52
And the lady says, but you have.
36:54
Jesus is necessary for salvation.
36:56
And Oprah looked at her.
36:57
And again, you look it up and find it.
36:59
She said, He can't be.
37:04
That was her response.
37:05
He can't be.
37:08
That's impossible.
37:15
Yeah? Absolutely.
37:21
The whole argument of interpretation.
37:23
Are there interpretational difficulties with Scripture? Absolutely.
37:27
But, and that's why there's Presbyterians and Baptists and different things.
37:30
We have things that we disagree about.
37:32
And they're legitimate disagreements.
37:34
But there is something that the Reformers called the perspiscuity of Scripture.
37:38
And I love that word because it's fun to say.
37:40
But the perspiscuity of Scripture is the clarity of Scripture on the essentials.
37:50
That while Scripture may have difficulty on some non-essential issues.
37:57
The essential issues of the gospel are without cloudiness or without obscurity.
38:06
They are absolutely clear.
38:08
And it really takes exegetical gymnastics to deny them.
38:14
And that's what you see.
38:17
So that's the three.
38:18
And like I said, if you want to add to the list, feel free.
38:21
But I think that any argument that I've heard and have had to deal with.
38:25
Comes down to either the existence and nature of God.
38:29
The nature and reliability of the Bible.
38:31
Or the interpretation application of the Bible.
38:34
Everything else, like I said, or everything sort of falls into one of those categories.
38:39
So now we're going to go down the other list.
38:41
And I'm going to obviously have to do it much more quickly.
38:43
Because I spent a lot of time on that.
38:46
And since we are going to subdivide these later.
38:49
I'm not going to spend a lot of time on each one now.
38:52
But let's look first.
38:55
I'll give you the answers very quickly.
38:58
Because I, and again, we can always add to this list for sure.
39:02
But there are five objectors that I think we should recognize.
39:07
One, objectors that are arguing from a position of atheism or agnosticism.
39:21
That's one.
39:21
Atheism, agnosticism.
39:23
Number two, objectors arguing from secularism.
39:29
And I put, or spirituality.
39:32
And we'll talk about that in a minute.
39:35
Secularism, spirituality.
39:45
Number three, objectors arguing from a position of false religion.
40:01
Now one could argue that spirituality and even atheism is a false religion.
40:05
But I'm trying to be specific in how I break things down.
40:09
So we'll just leave it there.
40:12
Number four, this one's kind of difficult.
40:16
Because it's not a word you're probably used to.
40:19
People arguing from the position of anti-theism.
40:24
Different than atheism.
40:30
And I put, or hyper skepticism.
40:34
That's another term.
40:42
Anti-theism, hyper skepticism.
40:45
Number four.
40:46
And number five, this is an easy one.
40:51
People arguing from heresy.
40:59
So very quickly in the next few minutes, I want to break these down.
41:03
Just quickly.
41:05
I won't keep you here all night, I promise.
41:07
But hey, some of you drove a long way.
41:08
Might as well get a little out of this.
41:10
So you can make it a little long.
41:13
And it stopped raining.
41:15
So hopefully be safe.
41:18
But let's look at these objectors.
41:19
Number one.
41:22
People arguing from the position of atheism or agnosticism.
41:25
I'm going to use my red pen now.
41:26
I brought a red pen.
41:28
And I want you to tell me where atheism and agnosticism falls under the issue of objections.
41:34
The first objection of the atheist is the very existence of God.
41:38
Now he will have issues with the Bible and all that.
41:41
But it begins with the existence of God.
41:43
Because what is an atheist? An atheist is someone who claims that God does not exist.
41:51
But I want to tell you something.
41:56
Atheists claim that God does not exist.
42:00
But they do not know that God does not exist.
42:05
And if an atheist tells you, I know God does not exist.
42:12
You can know that at that moment, you're not dealing with a reasonable person.
42:17
Let me explain why.
42:21
Because to know that something does not exist requires all knowledge of that thing.
42:31
I'll give you an example.
42:33
If I said to you, Jackie, I believe there's gold in China.
42:38
Would you agree? Yeah, most likely.
42:42
And how would I prove it to you? I would just show you, right? Let's fly to China.
42:48
Let's look around.
42:50
And as soon as we find a piece of gold, I've proved my point.
42:54
But now if I said, Jackie, there's no gold in China.
42:59
I'm making a statement that I cannot prove.
43:02
And I cannot know.
43:05
Because I would have to not only know about every jewelry store.
43:11
I would have to not only know what was inside of every mountain.
43:15
And what was inside of every stream.
43:17
I would have to know what was inside of every Chinese person's mouth.
43:22
I would have to know everything about everything.
43:26
And since that level of knowledge is impossible, I can't know that there's no gold in China.
43:34
All I can do is claim it.
43:37
But I can't know it.
43:39
So if somebody says, I know God doesn't exist.
43:43
You can feel free to tell them my pastor said you can't know that.
43:46
No, don't say that.
43:47
But no, just know that they can't know that.
43:51
That's why I have a friend who has a t-shirt that says, I am an a-atheist.
43:55
I don't believe in atheists.
43:56
That's what the shirt says.
43:57
It's an A in front of the word atheist.
43:59
He said, because I don't believe in atheists.
44:01
Because atheists say they know God doesn't exist.
44:04
And you can't know that.
44:06
That's why I put agnostic.
44:08
Because generally, when I talk to an atheist, they quickly move to agnosticism.
44:12
Because agnosticism, it puts the alpha negative in front of the word gnosis.
44:16
Gnosis means to know.
44:17
The alpha negative is the derivative to change into the opposite.
44:20
So the alpha negative in front of gnosis means ignorance.
44:24
That's what it means.
44:25
Means don't know.
44:27
And if you tell a person you can't know that God doesn't exist, they'll say, well, you're right.
44:31
I can't know that if they're reasonable.
44:33
They'll say, I don't believe he exists.
44:35
But I don't know that he doesn't exist.
44:37
You say, well, then you're not an atheist.
44:39
You are an agnostic.
44:40
You're saying you don't know.
44:44
Right there, at least, they say, well, I don't believe he exists.
44:50
But you don't know.
44:52
You're telling me you don't know.
44:55
Because you can't.
44:58
Like I said, agnostics claim they don't know whether God exists.
45:02
And this is more intellectually satisfying for most people.
45:05
Most people you talk to will not be atheists.
45:09
They'll be agnostic.
45:10
I don't know.
45:11
I've got a family member who doesn't believe in God.
45:15
But if you pushed her, and I have, she'll say, I don't know.
45:19
Because she's reasonable, at least in a sense.
45:21
Because only the unreasonable would say, I absolutely know God exists.
45:25
You can't know that.
45:30
Yeah.
45:30
The fool hath said in his own heart, there is no God.
45:34
All right.
45:34
So number two, secularism, spirituality.
45:37
I've been wanting to say this since we started.
45:41
Because number two, put a circle around it.
45:47
I don't want to say we worry.
45:49
I don't want to keep you up at night.
45:51
But most of us, really, when we talk about apologetics, think we're going to run into an atheist.
45:58
Atheism is still a very small minority in the world.
46:07
Most of what you'll run into are not atheists, or even really agnostics.
46:12
Most of what you run into will be secularists.
46:17
Who believe in some type of spirituality, but do not believe that that spirituality should function as a monitor or a check on the life that they live in public.
46:31
They will tell you, I'm spiritual, and I'm private about my spirituality.
46:36
You've heard that.
46:37
You've heard people say, my religion is very personal.
46:41
It's very private.
46:44
Honestly, you want to know what's funny? You guys know that we recently had a presidential election.
46:49
Yeah, like you missed it.
46:53
Hillary Clinton ran against Donald Trump.
46:56
Recently, I read an article about some of the most influential Christians in the world.
47:03
You know who was on the list? Hillary Clinton.
47:06
Hillary Clinton was on the list.
47:09
Because she will tell you she is a practicing Methodist, and is committed as a Methodist.
47:19
I don't want to get into the politics of that.
47:22
But what would she say about the practice in public? My religion is personal.
47:31
It's private.
47:33
In fact, her running mate was a man by the name of Tim Kaine.
47:37
Tim Kaine is a Catholic.
47:39
This is what he said during the election cycle regarding the subject of abortion.
47:46
Now, you know in Roman Catholic, they are very much against, as we should be, very much against abortion.
47:52
In fact, most of the people that you see in abortion clinics, Roman Catholics.
47:57
They go.
47:57
They hold signs.
47:58
They believe life is sacred, and praise God for that.
48:03
But this is what he said.
48:06
I, quote, I have a traditional Catholic personal position.
48:09
But I am strongly supportive of women that make these decisions, and government shouldn't intrude.
48:15
End quote.
48:16
So what's he saying? I have a private position that's Catholic.
48:20
But my public position is everybody gets to choose.
48:24
So they get to wear like a mask.
48:26
I'm going to be this in private, and this is my spirituality.
48:30
And I'm going to wear this in public, because I can't have my spiritual mask in public.
48:35
Because the public square is no place for religion.
48:43
I'm telling you, that's who you're going to run into more.
48:46
That's why I said circling.
48:47
You will see atheists.
48:50
You go to college campus.
48:51
You're going to run into some atheists.
48:53
Go to Starbucks and sit down.
48:55
You might run into an atheist, because they love to go there.
48:57
I'm just kidding.
48:59
I'm just kidding, because they love Starbucks.
49:01
But you're rank and file people.
49:08
You're regular Joe Friday out there on the street that you run into.
49:13
My religion is private.
49:18
And we kind of coexist.
49:20
That's right.
49:20
Coexist.
49:23
So that is what I really think we're going to be more likely to run into.
49:27
And so throughout this course, we're going to deal with, how do we talk to that person? Because that's different.
49:32
Because they're not saying God doesn't exist.
49:35
What they're saying, in a sense, is that God doesn't belong in the public arena.
49:44
You heard this term, you can't legislate morality.
49:48
Well, what can you legislate? Morality is a statement of right and wrong.
49:53
Law is based on the idea of right and wrong.
49:56
If you can't legislate morality, you can't legislate anything.
49:58
I always tell them, well, you can legislate.
50:01
They say, yeah, that's better.
50:03
Yeah, I like that better.
50:05
But that's the point, is if you replace Christian values, you don't replace it with nothing.
50:13
You replace it with some other values.
50:15
Something has to go there.
50:17
Because if you're going to say murder is wrong, you've got to have a reason.
50:21
If you're going to say it's wrong to steal, you've got to have a reason.
50:28
All right.
50:29
Let me get through these.
50:29
I promise I'm almost done.
50:32
Objectors arguing from a false religion.
50:34
Oh, let's go back one second.
50:36
The secular spirituality, this goes to the nature of God.
50:41
Atheists are dealing with the existence of God and the nature of God.
50:44
But the secularist is the nature of God.
50:46
God doesn't belong in the public arena.
50:48
We don't need to be preaching on the street.
50:50
We don't need to be handing out tracts.
50:52
Private religion, private spirituality, it's all private.
50:56
God only wants my private life.
50:58
Or God only wants to be kept in the shadows of my life.
51:02
All right.
51:02
Third, false religion.
51:05
Again, a lot of people think I'm going to run into atheists all the time.
51:09
And that's what my apologetics need to be about.
51:11
Honestly, not.
51:13
As I said, atheism, very small minority.
51:15
But there's a ton of people out there that believe wrongly about God and are very religious about it.
51:21
You are much more likely to run into a Muslim, a Mormon, or Jehovah Witness than you are an atheist.
51:27
Because atheists don't come to your house at 8 a.m.
51:29
in the morning asking you to take an Awake magazine.
51:33
Right? Huh? Every Saturday.
51:37
And they come with a magazine called Awake.
51:41
And I ain't.
51:45
Well, but, you know, that's the idea.
51:49
Is you're more likely, the atheists don't come to your house in general.
51:58
Fourth, let's just quickly get through these.
52:01
Anti-theism and hyper-skepticism.
52:04
Why am I bringing up anti-theism other than atheism? Because anti-theism is different.
52:13
Because there are people who are not just satisfied in their unbelief, but they are zealous to convert others to unbelief.
52:23
And they will attack the nature of God and His Word viciously.
52:31
I had it happen this week.
52:33
Some of you saw it.
52:34
Talking about the Facebook thing.
52:35
The person on the Facebook page, some of you probably didn't see, he said something on that one post.
52:40
But he said something in another post that I had put up.
52:43
Simply with a bulletin that I had went to another church this past Sunday.
52:47
And he basically put a post up comparing what I had done by going to church with manure or fertilizer.
52:57
See, that's not a statement of unbelief.
52:59
That's saying what you believe is horse poop.
53:05
And see, that's an attack.
53:07
That's more than atheism.
53:10
That's what I call anti-theism.
53:12
It's like the one atheist said, I don't believe in God and I hate Him.
53:18
That's anti-theism.
53:19
And it also goes by the term hyper-skepticism.
53:23
Because these people will not accept any evidence that does not comport with their presuppositions at all.
53:31
Now, we already said that's pretty much the position of everybody.
53:34
But these will bend over backwards to not address any evidence at all.
53:39
In fact, a few years ago, my wife and I went to a conference, got to meet Lee Strobel and some other guys.
53:46
During the conference, there were some anti-theists there.
53:49
They had a booth set up in the lobby that we all had to pass by.
53:54
And they were holding signs.
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They were the most religious atheists I've ever seen.
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And they were passing out dollar bills.
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Not really passing, they weren't giving them away.
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They were showing dollar bills that were before 1956.
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Anybody know what's specific about a dollar bill that was written or printed before 1956? Anybody know? It doesn't say, in God we trust.
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Our money, the motto, in God we trust.
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It was on the coins first.
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But it didn't get on our paper money until 1956.
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So they were going around, see, this is new.
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Your, in God we trust, is an imposition on us.
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Because it hasn't always been this way.
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In a sense, true.
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It hasn't always been that way.
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You know the Pledge of Allegiance? Didn't have under God in it when it was first written.
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One nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.
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That was it.
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No under God.
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That's fine.
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Because honestly, we've been spitting in his face for many, many years.
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I don't have a problem with, if we're going to continue spitting in his face, don't name his name.
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But, I digress, that's their argument.
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You know, they're sitting there making an argument with this money.
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As I said, I don't believe in God, but I hate him.
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Finally, heresy, and we'll finish with this.
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Arguments from heresy.
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You are going to come across, in your sharing of your faith, you are going to come across people who call themselves Christians who are not Christians.
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You are going to come across people who are Christians who believe wrong about God.
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And I had a great conversation yesterday with Brother Kevin from the church.
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Kevin Metters came over to my house, was helping me, and afterwards we sat around talking.
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And he asked the great question.
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This is a very important question.
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He said, what does a person, what must they believe to be saved or to be lost? That's an important question, because some people believe, unless you believe everything they believe, you can't be saved.
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And honestly, you know, I've heard, like Dr.
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White says, you know, we draw the circle so tight sometimes that we're standing on one foot just to stay in it ourselves.
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But there is the other truth, the other side of the truth, that there is a lot of people out there who call themselves Christians who are not.
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They teach a salvation that's either based on legalism or licentiousness.
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They have a morality which includes no morality, promoting all kinds of sins, both sexual and financial and otherwise.
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And there are people who have gained millions and billions of dollars by bilking God's sheep.
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These are not believers.
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And so part of this course is going to be saying, well, how do we deal with somebody who comes up and says, I'm a Christian and I love Kenneth Copeland? I mean, would you even address it? Would you need to address it? Might say, hey, not my circus and not my problem, right? But is it? Is that a point where apologetics matters? Should we proclaim the truth? Should we give a defense for the hope? Is this a person who's probably lost? Well, we don't know for certain, but do they know the gospel? And so this is all apologetics.
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Apologetics doesn't end when we stop talking to people who are atheists, because if that's all we ever talk to, we ain't going to talk to very many people.
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There's a lot more people out there.
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And so I conclude again, going back to Proverbs 26, it tells us this.
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Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest you be like him yourself.
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Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he be wise in his own eyes.
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Why did I start with that verse? Because of this.
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That verse tells us that in life, there are times when you're going to be faced with fools.
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Sometimes you're going to have to walk away.
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And sometimes you're going to have to give an answer.
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That's really why it's not a contradiction, because neither of them are an absolute.
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Sometimes the fool is going to have to be left in his foolishness, or you're going to be just like him.
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As it's been said, you don't wrestle with a pig because he likes the mud.
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Or how does it go? If you wrestle with a pig, you both get dirty and he likes it.
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You know, that's kind of what happens when you get out there with some guys.
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They're just going to try to argue with you, and it's going to get ugly.
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But sometimes, sometimes we have to answer the fool, lest he be wise in his own eyes and lest others think he is wise.
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Yeah, that's true.
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So again, in the weeks to come, we're going to look at these objections.
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We're going to look, considering the objectors, and hopefully become better at giving a hope or defense for the hope that is within us.
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Let's pray.
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Father, I thank you for this lesson.
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I thank you for this time.
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I pray that it has been beneficial to your people.
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In Jesus' name, amen.