Roger Patterson Interview

Welcome to No Compromise Radio, a ministry coming to you from Bethlehem Bible Church in West Boylston. No Compromise Radio is a program dedicated to the ongoing proclamation of Jesus Christ, based on the theme in Galatians 2, verse 5, where the Apostle Paul said, �But we did not yield in subjection to them for even an hour, so that the truth of the gospel would remain with you.

In short, if you like smooth, watered-down words to make you simply feel good, this show isn�t for you. By purpose, we are first biblical, but we can also be controversial. Stay tuned for the next 25 minutes as we�re called by the Divine Trumpet to summon the troops for the honor and glory of her King.

Here�s our host, Pastor Mike Abendroth.

Welcome to No Compromise Radio, a ministry. My name is Mike Abendroth. And before we get to our special guest today, don�t forget you can go to Germany and Switzerland with us next year, 2017, that�s May 20th through 30th.

Mike Gendron and I are going to host a group, and we are going to go to Geneva. Actually, I was looking at the Geneva Reformation Museum that looked great, so we�ll swing by there, Wittenberg, Wurttemberg Castle, etc., etc.

So we�d love to have you go. You can just go to the website and sign up. Well, today, I�m probably four or five years late because we�ve had this guest on before. I think we had so many downloads, though, that I had to pay extra for the bandwidth.

So we have to kind of space it out a little bit. Roger Patterson, welcome back to No Compromise Radio. Glad to be back with you, Mike. Roger, you are at Answers in Genesis now. How long have you been there?

I�ve been here for 10 years, so quite a while living here in Kentucky.

Flat Earth Claims and Biblical Interpretation

And at Answers in Genesis, you probably get some weird questions to filter through. What�s the weirdest question you�ve ever received or that you�ve seen coming into the ministry?

Well, there are surely lots of those things. One of the most recent things that�s very interesting to us is we�ve been getting a lot of proponents of the flat earth, and we would think, you know, that�s stuff that�s of a bygone era, but really there are people who are actively promoting that idea now.

And I talked to our speakers who are out on the road, they�re actually getting lots of questions about that. I just had a discussion with one of them the other day about how to deal with that issue from a biblical perspective and not totally abandoning science.

I mean, we have pictures from space that show a spherical earth and real observational science to back up that claim. There�s nothing in the text of Scripture that explicitly denies those things, and so we can use the reasoning God has given us to deny the flat earth, even though some of those poetic passages in the Bible might seem to suggest that it�s true.

Roger, that�s fascinating to me.

People believe things for reasons. Why do you think people want to believe in the flat earth?

Well, I can understand as we look at the text of Scripture, and people want to be faithful to the text of Scripture and honor what it says, and they read these passages, and I talked about the four corners of the earth and those types of things.

And then there is, within that same strain of thinking, almost an anti-science mentality. We would, as AIG, I mean, we�d speak against things like evolution because we believe that even though modern science, in the sense of the academy and the scientists who predominantly promote those types of views in the public and things, would accept evolution as a true account of the history of life on earth, the Bible denies that.

And so I think there�s a bit of an anti-science sentiment. So one of our goals at Answers in Genesis is to help people deal honestly with the science, where science can be used as a tool that can help us understand the world as God has created it, but always looking to the Bible as the source.

So I think there�s a desire to be true to the Bible, and then that anti-science piece comes in, and those combine to give people some interesting ideas.

Roger, when I consider the iPhone, and everyone now has a camera in their pocket, whether it�s Apple or a different brand, you�d think, just like with miracles, signs, and wonders, and healings, that people would have the four corners of the earth or the edge of the earth on their iPhone so I could see where not to step off into the abyss.

Yeah, and that�s one of the great arguments against that. We have people who have orbited the space station. You think of astronaut Jeff, and he�s a good Christian man, and he�s up there orbiting the earth.

Why would he lie to us about those things? And he�s seeing those things from space, and we have those pictures. We can look at the shadow that the earth casts on the moon during a lunar eclipse and recognize that it�s curved, and the only way that can happen is if indeed the earth is a sphere, and lots of solid evidence that we can use God�s creation to analyze those claims and see if they back up against what is being promoted from those certain interpretations of Scripture.

Apologetics, the Gospel, and the Hope of Christ

Roger, before we get into your new book and discuss that, World Religions and Cults, Volume 2, when you are at Answers in Genesis and you get emails and phone calls and have to deal with certain issues, what�s the one thing you wish you could just tell everyone?

And you could say to the listeners, I know you�ve been thinking this or saying that or hearing such and such, but here�s the one major message that I wish I could convey in one lump sum. What would that be?

I think the biggest thing is to not get lost in the details of this scientific discovery says this or this interpretation says that, but to really keep our eyes fixed on Christ and sharing the gospel and using apologetics not as a tool to prove some specific point of view about this or that aspect of hermeneutics or this or that aspect of scientific reasoning, but to use it as 1 Peter 3 talks about, pointing to the hope that we have, and that hope is not in defending a young earth or a worldwide flood or denying evolution.

Those things don�t bring us hope. The hope that we have is in what Jesus Christ has done for us, that he came as God in the flesh to pay for our sins on the cross and rise victoriously over death on the third day, and that is the hope that we need to be pointing people to, that we not get bogged down in all the details, but use those things as pointers to the gospel of Jesus Christ.

Isn�t it amazing, Roger, how easy it is for us, and I put myself into that category of us, people ask questions and they�ve got inquiries and we get off on all these rabbit trails and we talk about everything except the most important thing, 1 Corinthians 15 talks about of first importance, that is the gospel, and that is wise advice from you.

The Ark Encounter as an Evangelistic Tool

Answers in Genesis, anything big coming up, any news that our listeners should be aware of?

Well, as you�ve probably heard, recently this summer we opened the Ark Encounter, so that�s been a great big endeavor that we�ve been developing for a number of years after the Creation Museum opened.

That�s been over 9 years ago, the Ark Encounter was in development from then, and so construction began a little over a year and a half ago on that project, and the first phase, the life-size ark and the Ararat Ridge Zoo, and those things were opened this summer, and had a great success with that opening, thousands of people coming from all over the world, and to visit that, to see the ark in its full scale at 510 feet long, and honestly, just driving up the hill and seeing it, people just get overwhelmed at the size, and then you go stand underneath of it and it�s amazing, and again, that�s an evangelistic tool, we don�t just want to say, �Hey, look, here�s how big the ark was.

But inside the exhibits and those things are explaining the authority of scripture, that we can trust what the Bible says, and always using those things to point to Christ, and so we hope everybody gets a chance to come and visit the museum and the ark, and I hope your family can make it out here someday.

Well, only if after hours they have no-compromise radio and the speakers inside the ark.

We might be able to do that. I�ll talk to them.

Stewardship, the Church, and Criticism of the Ark

Roger, when people are online and they try to criticize the amount of money spent on the ark or the purpose of the ark, something like that, what�s your response to them? I mean, you alluded to it in terms of talking about the gospel in the stations inside, but what�s your general response to people who are critical?

I think we have to remember that God did not save us to all do the exact same thing. We see those passages that Paul especially uses, talking about the body in its broad sense around the world doing different functions, and within the local churches, each person doing their different function.

So, as a ministry, we focus on one specific aspect, and our goal as our mission is the church to be able to defend the faith effectively. And so, of course, there are people who are saying, both Christian and non-Christian, �Well, that hundred-plus million dollars could have been spent better to feed the poor or to build a homeless shelter, or you could have bought a house and a car for every homeless person in Kentucky.

And lots of claims like that. But those temporal things are good to care for, and there's nothing wrong with caring for the poor and those types of things. And individually, as each of us here at the ministry, each of us is involved in those types of things.

I've done outreaches to the homeless personally and all that type of stuff. So, to criticize a ministry for doing something that they understand is their specific call within the broader church is a bit odd.

It's like telling a church that you have to spend all your money doing one specific thing. You can't divide it out into VBS and outreaches for the community and sharing the gospel with people in prison.

You have to focus on one thing. So, we can't expect everyone to do the same thing. And each of us will stand before God and give an account for the things that we have done, whether good or bad. And so, as a ministry, we understand that, and we take that seriously.

We haven't done this lightly. And the people who have supported it, all of our supporters are doing it for that reason, trusting that we're doing it as an outreach to people who will maybe never step foot in a church, but they'd come see this giant ark and hear the gospel message proclaimed through the signs and through the videos and through the things that they're going to interact with there at the ark.

World Religions and Cults, Volume 2

Roger, thank you for that answer. For our listeners, we're talking to Roger Patterson, Answers in Genesis. If you go to the website answersingenesis .org and pull up Roger's bio, he's got a variety of articles there.

We've had him on No Compromise Radio several years ago talking about Easter and what about the symbols and customs of Easter. Are they pagan? He's got several articles written about that and the origin of the name Easter, etc.

I think you'd be encouraged to read them. Roger, I have in front of me the World Religions and Cults book that you and Bode Hodge edited with the subtitle, Moralistic, Mythical, and Mystical Religions, Volume 2.

And you know what it reminded me of, Roger, is people wanted me to write the Evangelical White Lies, Volume 1, they wanted it to be called, because there are so many white lies in evangelicalism, you have to have multi-volumes.

Yeah, absolutely. And so... Same thing goes with World Religions and Cults, yeah.

That's so true. I was in India not that long ago and I believe 1 .2 billion people and one person told me 330 million gods. Small g, of course. And it just seemed like it's just this potpourri of gods and people with their minds know they should worship because they've been made in a likeness image of God and yet they don't want to worship the real God.

Tell us a little bit about some of the topics in this second volume because it's fascinating. I mean, I ask you a question, I keep talking, I know, but, you know, Mormonism and JW and some of the stuff that we know a lot about, that's fine and we need to deal with that.

But I actually like these topics better because they're a little more obscure and they've got a little more mystical, Hindu-ish kind of flavor. Tell us why you picked these topics.

Well, we decided to divide all of these religious views into four basic categories. So Volume 1 dealt with the counterfeits of Christianity. So those are things like you mentioned, Jehovah's Witnesses and Mormonism and even Islam, religions that revere the Bible and talk about God as a supreme being in some sense, in the broader sense.

And so that first volume dealt with those. The second volume, we tackled two different areas. We have the moralistic type of religions. So these would be types of religions that want to, that surely recognize that there is some morality that humanity should follow.

But they do that in a way that's really based on man's opinions and man's interaction with nature. To some extent, they're kind of natural law religions. So we have things in that category of the moralistic and mythical religions, like paganism and Buddhism and Wicca and witchcraft and animism.

So they look at the world around them and they recognize that there are things that are happening and they try to explain those things and they want to develop this moral code that will help them live in the world and interact with other people.

But they deny the truth of God as the supreme ruler and creator. And so they come up with their own systems, these man-made systems, that are obviously going to have many falsehoods in them and appeal to animal spirits and spirits of the trees, are very mythological in that sense.

The second category then is the Eastern mystical religions. So we know things like the New Age movement is very popular. Taoism, Hinduism, Jainism, Sikhism, those types of things that have that very mystical quality to them.

Voodoo, Zombies, and Spiritual Fear

Roger, I'm looking at the voodoo chapter and what do you make about mentally all these zombie things? I mean, the world is fascinated. Hollywood, media, we are fascinated. It's zombie, zombie, zombie stuff.

And I know that's talked about a little bit in the voodooism chapter by Corey Abney. What's your take on why are we so obsessed with zombies?

Well, I think people understand that there is something that happens after death. And zombies, I believe, fascinate people because it gives an explanation of what might happen to somebody after death.

There's some concept of this soul and we don't know exactly what it is. If they trusted the Bible, they could understand those things better. But in denying the Bible, they look to, again, to man's opinions to try and explain these things.

And there's that fascination and wanting to be able to control and manipulate death because it's a fearful thing. Especially people in the Western world who have at least the vague concept of God's judgment within our culture.

They know that there's something after death and they want to try and explain and understand those things. I think it's a way to try to control and manipulate those things in a way that gives them some type of comfort.

But it's quite odd to me. I find it all rather creepy and weird. My sons and I, we're involved in shooting sports. We go to the gun shop and they've got all these zombie targets and zombie squirrels and zombie groundhogs.

And so we pass those and go for them.

I was in Portland not that long ago and they have a famous donut place called Voodoo Donuts. And after reading the chapter on voodoo, I'm almost ashamed to say that I ate the donuts.

It's interesting how the way that voodooism is treated in America is very popularized. It's what we learned from Scooby-Doo casting spells, which is part of it. But it's a much more developed animistic view of the world that really is quite fascinating.

And it really controls people and talking to Dr. Abney about those things. He's a pastor here and actually a graduate of Southern pastors here in the Northern Kentucky area. He talks about all their trips to Haiti and the way that these witch doctors just manipulate and control the communities and the power that they have over people and just the fear that people have.

It breaks my heart and his and their ministry to those people. They've actually seen amazing things happen there and God worked in mighty ways to break down those demonic strongholds. And some other things that don't go so well because these are real spiritual forces that are initiating these things and guiding the minds.

I appreciated his discussion of Jesus as prophet, priest, and king in answer to those things. We're talking to Roger Patterson today about his book, World Religions and Cults, Volume 2 on Master Books, Volume 3.

It says it's coming soon. Roger, in the four or five minutes we have left, I wanted to talk about one of your chapters, Unitarianism. Because unlike Haiti and its influence, I live here in New England and Unitarianism slash.

Universalism is very big here. And of course, it has influences elsewhere, T .D. Jakes and other things. Tell us a little bit about Unitarianism, why it's bad, why it's applicable to know this doctrine today.

Unitarianism, the Trinity, and Universalism

It's interesting that you bring up Jakes. In that chapter, I try to define Unitarianism. In one sense, there's the notion that Jakes, we would understand to be a modalist where he sees God as one person who manifests himself in three different ways.

And that's one aspect of Unitarianism. But that would be more of a perversion of the Trinity and twisting those things. And so when we talk to somebody and they say they're a Unitarian, it's important to ask that follow-up question, what do you mean by that?

And so if this person's a modalist, we have a different discussion than if they're a Unitarian Universalist. So this was actually a fascinating chapter to write and research these things. The Unitarian concept actually grew out of Europe following the Reformation.

And thinkers in different regions of Europe eventually migrated to England where it took hold. And you might be familiar with some of the laws that were passed there in England where people were not allowed to preach other than preaching about the Trinity.

And so the Unitarians were a bit persecuted. And the doctrines of Priestley was one of the big English proponents. Those doctrines get picked up in the middle of the 18th century and transferred over to America.

And in the New England region, of course, at that time, America was just a colony. And spread through different preachers, promoted, interestingly, by people like Thomas Jefferson. Contrary to popular opinion, not a good Christian man, but he denied the Trinity, thought the Doctor of the Trinity was equivalent to the Greek mythological character Cerberus, the three-headed dog.

And so then that Unitarian idea that God is not Trinity, as we understand to be true from the Bible, spread and congregations grew. And eventually it kind of got hijacked by the Transcendentalists and people there in your area like Emerson and others who developed this Transcendental aspect where man really can determine truth and find truth within himself.

Then they started to deny more and more of the Scripture, and of course, rather than recognizing that only those who trust in Christ for the forgiveness of their sins will be saved in eternity, they became Universalists.

And so there was a Universalist camp and a Unitarian camp, and they kind of merged together because as they both strayed away from the truths of Scripture, from their Christian roots, they found themselves in common ground.

And it was very fascinating. So the Unitarianism we discussed here is expressed today in the Unitarian Universalist Church, which pretty much you can believe whatever you want to and be a part of that.

There are actually atheist segments of this.

When we drive past churches here in New England, I ask the children, oh, it says congregational. What do they focus on? Presbyterian, what's their main teaching? Unitarian Universalist churches, what do they believe?

My kids go, nothing. Anything? Yes. I appreciate the book because in the book, Roger, you and your co-editor talk about how to refute these false religions but also how to stand up and effectively communicate the gospel and do essentially what 1 Peter 3 is talking about.

The hope that we have in us, and we do it with gentleness and respect as we preach the gospel. Roger, I appreciate you, your ministry, your partnership with No Compromise Radio. We look forward to having you on again for Volume 3.

All right, we'll do that.

No Compromise Radio with Pastor Mike Abendroth is a production of Bethlehem Bible Church in West Boylston. Bethlehem Bible Church is a Bible-teaching church firmly committed to unleashing the life-transforming power of God's Word through verse-by-verse exposition of the sacred text.

Please come and join us. Our service times are Sunday morning at 1015 and in the evening at 6. We're right on Route 110 in West Boylston. You can check us out online at bbchurch .org or by phone at 508 -835 -3400.

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