February 13, 2020 Show with Dr. James R. White on “Must One be a Calvinist to be Saved? A Response to the Gospel of Doctrinal Perfectionism”

Live from the historic parsonage of the 19th century gospel minister George Norcross in downtown

Carlisle, Pennsylvania.

It's iron sharpens iron.

This is a radio platform in which pastors Christian scholars and theologians Address the burning issues facing

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Proverbs chapter 27 verse 17 tells us.

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Arnzen.

Good afternoon, Cumberland County, Pennsylvania Lake City, Florida and the rest of humanity living on the

planet Earth were listening via live streaming at iron sharpens iron radio .com.

This is Chris Arnzen your host of iron sharpens iron radio wishing you all a happy Thursday on this 13th

day of February 2020 and I am thrilled to have received a

Birthday present a day early in having James White here on the program today as

many of you know, our friendship goes back many years back to 1995 to be precise

and we have worked together on arranging debates and conferences all these years since and

he continues to prove to be My one of my very favorite guests and it's my

honor and privilege to welcome you back to iron sharpens iron radio.

Dr. James are white.

Well, I don't want to have you confused.

There are there is at least one other one other evangelical author I know of named James.

That's right.

It is that is yeah.

So we want to make sure in fact that James Emory white might be furious if people were thinking

you or him today but Who knows.

Well, I for my knowledge, he's not a Calvinist.

Oh, I have no idea as much as as much as we will be

Attempting to refute hyper -Calvinism or Perfectionist

Calvinism we will still be seeking to defend what Calvinism truly is today and

that is the topic today, by the way for those of you who Did not see any of the

promotions ahead of time the themes to be precise is must one be a Calvinist to be

saved a response to the gospel of doctrinal perfectionism and

one of the things that Basically pushed me

To want to discuss this today with you is that when I had Justin Peters

Come here to Carlisle, Pennsylvania very recently to speak at my

biannual iron sharpens iron radio pastors luncheon There was one person in particular

who will remain nameless Who kept pestering me to ask me why Justin Peters?

refuses to answer the question is the Arminian gospel a false gospel and

This is Something that As you know because you've

confronted this often yourself.

There are there is a minority amongst those Who at least profess to believe in the

historic doctrines of the tulip?

That you and I share total depravity unconditional election limited atonement irresistible

grace and perseverance and preservation of the Saints.

Some of these folks are so radical that they no longer call themselves Calvinist because they believe Calvin is in hell.

Because Calvin didn't agree with him on this very subject that we are addressing.

But they believe if you do not believe In those doctrines of the tulip

you are damned.

You have no hope for salvation and not only are those Who are opposed to these

doctrines damned those who profess to believe in these doctrines But believe they have Arminian

brothers and sisters in Christ are also damned of course.

This is I'm broad brushing a bit here, but because there are probably many different sects within

this Doctrinal perfectionism camp, but if you could pick up where I left off

I would love to hear RC Sproul's response if you actually said to him that you invited.

In

fact

I've

watched you

argue

with

rich

back and

forth

for about

15 minutes in the dividing line.

Well, I'd

love

to.

I

would

love

to

hear

about it.

I know

that

in

my

own

experiences.

I have met people from Hyper Calvinistic backgrounds that are opposite

ends of the spectrum.

They both would agree that Evangelism is not

a means by which God and his sovereignty Regenerates his elect.

They would say that's an Arminian understanding that God uses means Even of the proclaiming of the gospel the

way the way that they were in polar opposite.

Ends.

The one group I'm thinking of immediately who are not all

but are Flooded with hyper Calvinists in fact.

I know that you spoke at a church that was not Under the category of hyper Calvinism in this

denomination, and I'm speaking.

I'm speaking of the primitive Baptist.

Then you have and they believe That since evangelism has nothing to do

with regeneration or salvation.

They believe that there are pagans who have never come to know Christ on this earth who will be in heaven.

And then you have on the other extreme people like in the the Netherlands Reformed Church the denomination that dr.

Joel Beakey left Primarily because of hyper Calvinism there.

They have a much smaller view of the elect and believe

That the the number of those who will be in heaven is a lot smaller than most Christians think.

In fact I have been told by people who are former members of The Netherlands Reformed Church

that you could have a church that has a thousand people or more in it.

Of course that would have to be somewhere in Grand Rapids.

They believe that if you have a thousand even if you have a thousand more members in the

congregation they have such a small view of the number of elect that they

Typically, you will only see a handful of people receive the Lord's Supper and even in a church that large.

Yep.

And we're gonna go to our first break and we'll pick up where you left off there.

If anybody would like to join us on the air with a question of your own.

We already have several people waiting to have their questions answered by you.

But You would like to get in line.

Just send us an email to chris arms in at gmail .com Chris a RN z energy email calm.

Give us your first name at least your city and state of residence in your country of residence if you live outside the USA.

Only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter and that may even be That you are a member

of a church With whom you disagree on issues.

We're discussing.

And you don't want to identify yourself, that's perfectly understandable.

You might even be a pastor who disagrees with your fellow elders or your congregation or your denomination on these

issues.

Whatever the reason is that you are compelled to remain anonymous.

For the sole reason of being Chris Arnson's pastor.

And I think at least one of them is listening right now.

But.

Send us that email to Chris Arnson at gmail .com.

And as I said, please give us unless you're anonymous your first name at least your city and state and your country of residence.

God willing we'll be right back after these messages with more of dr James R white.

And our theme must one be a Calvinist to be saved a response to the gospel of doctrinal

perfectionism.

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I'm dr. Tony Costa professor of apologetics and Islam at Toronto Baptist Seminary.

I'm thrilled to introduce to you a church where I've been invited to speak and have grown to love

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It's such a joy to witness and experience fellowship with people of God like the dear saints at Hope Reformed Baptist Church

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So stay tuned and I will give you more details later on.

By the way, dr. White.

One of us at least has to ask Tony Costa what a doctrine is.

Canadian.

Well, welcome back folks if you would like to join us on the air with a question for dr James R. White of Alpha and Omega

Ministries on The theme today must one be a Calvinist to be saved a response to the

gospel of doctrinal perfectionism.

Send us an email to Chris Arnzen at gmail .com.

Chris Arnzen at gmail .com.

Let me first read a question from Mary in Cork, Ireland.

Let's see.

I just had it in front of me.

I don't know if the folks over there in Cork are Screaming at their

computers saying that Chris Arnzen's butchering their accent.

But uh, let's see here.

I where is that question?

I just had it in front of me.

Okay, here it is.

Mary in Cork, Ireland says according to Acts chapter 16 verse 32 through 31 the jailer

asked Paul and Silas What must I do to be saved?

The answer was Believe in the Lord Jesus and you will and you will be saved

you and your household.

How clear is that she says?

Well, that's an excellent question.

And if you want to comment on that, yeah.

Yeah, yeah, I do.

And

look, um

is not

going

to inherit

eternal

life and the

new

testament

here amongst

the judea.

You

separate

yourself

from

a

well

-known

good

fear

meaningful

test

of

the

true

things.

You

can

hey,

you

know

now

that

really

matters.

Yes, I had my.

As I always do I have my mic on mute.

When you are speaking because I want to try to make sure that is as little background noise as possible.

Chris, come on.

I I know you too.

Well, it's the snoring.

Hahaha.

Well buzz is not here right now and if he was it would certainly be a reason for having

microphones muted but um We have I there's no way that i'm

going to be able to read the entire questions and or statements

by Our next listener who sent in an email brian from

Hanover pennsylvania coopersburg, pennsylvania.

I'm not sure why both are listed.

Uh, but brian, we thank you for sending in your question and I think Me

just asking his first Question will give you opportunity to give that

minimal list that you believe must be present in the profession of someone

before we can Uh with confidence claim that they are our brother or sister in christ, but he says hi

chris and dr. White.

I saw this post I would like to comment and ask a couple of questions for you and dr White to seek

to answer because I have been accused wrongly accused And slandered with such names as dr.

White mentioned to preface my comment i'm not Or ever

have been a calvinist a hyper calvinist or doctrinal perfectionist Even though i've been

slanderously called all of that and more.

My questions are these and i'm only going to ask one because there's no way we could fit everything.

He's presenting here.

In fact brian, I will email Uh, dr. White your entire Email,

and if you want to correspond with him later, that's uh up to both of you.

But here is the question that i'm going to read.

How many gospels are the power of god unto salvation so

Uh, why don't you respond to that and also give us?

That minimal list that you said, uh has elements in it that every

professing believer should have included in their In their faith in summary

form in order for us to look at them as a uh, as a brother and sister in christ.

Yeah, well.

So

yeah,

they're

both

roman

catholics

and

ironically

is

quoted

very

often by

reformed

christians.

Oh,

yeah.

We have to go to our midway break we'll pick up where you left off and by the way brian I believe it could be wrong, but

I believe you're a first -time questioner.

So if you give me your full mailing address, we'll have a new american standard bible shipped out to you

Because of the fact that you're a first -time questioner.

And uh our friends at uh, the who published the new american standard bible Uh have been

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And we also thank our friends at cvbbs .com cumberland valley bible book service who will actually be shipping it out

to you at no charge to you or to iron trip and zion radio, so We'll be back after

these messages to pick up where we left off on that question of yours brian.

And if anybody else wants to join us our email address is chris arnson at gmail .com.

Chris arnson at gmail .com and please give us your first name at least your city and state in your country of residence.

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James white of alphanomega.

Ministries and the dividing line.

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Although god has brought me all over the globe for many years to teach preach and debate at numerous venues Some of my

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Before we return to dr. James r white.

And what is proving to be a fascinating discussion on must one be a calvinist to be saved

a response to the doctor?

The gospel of doctrinal perfectionism.

Just have a couple of announcements to make regarding upcoming events.

The aforementioned conference That I brought up very early on in the show

Is something that I hope that you join me in attending.

This is A conference at hope reform baptist church in quorum, long island, new york

featuring guest speaker gary demar president of american vision.

The theme of the conference is god the government in the last days, that's march 20th and

21st hope reform baptist church In quorum, long island if you would like to attend this

event.

You can go to reformed rookie .com.

Reformed.

Rookie r o o k i e .com and then click on demar conference at the top

of the page.

And god willing i'll see you there that is March 20th and 21st at hope

reform baptist church in quorum, long island, new york.

And uh, really look forward to meeting iron sharpens iron radio listeners.

Both those whom I am familiar with and those who are new to me.

Perhaps you've never even uh sent in a question or anything like that.

Uh, but I look forward to being there god willing.

And then uh on friday may 29th I am having My next

iron sharpens iron radio pastor's luncheon.

This is our spring luncheon and uh, I am so thrilled beyond words

To have as my guest speaker for the very first time ever at the iron sharpens iron radio

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Dr Conrad Mbewe Who is pastor of kibwata baptist church in lusaka

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Where he is a lecturer.

And he is one of the most powerful preachers On the planet earth and I am not exaggerating when

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But if you are I know that some churches unbiblically separate the pastors and elders.

If you're an elder.

Uh, if you're a deacon if you're a leader in a parachurch organization.

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We are now back with our guest.

Dr. James R. White of alpha and omega ministries.

And.

He is speaking on the theme must one be a calvinist to be saved.

A response to the gospel of doctrinal perfectionism.

If you'd like to join us our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com Chrisarnson at gmail .com and please as always give

us your first name at least city and state And country of residence if you live outside the usa and only remain anonymous.

It's a personal and private matter.

By the way.

I forgot to mention some folks that enabled iron sharpens iron radio to return to the airwaves as we

were facing for a number of weeks some technical difficulties that have

crippled us.

And uh, we're making it impossible for us to air this program live.

But that has been rectified.

Thanks be to god and for god, uh using some talented folks who

are willing to Help us out with this show and and who are much more technical savvy.

Technically savvy than I am, but that doesn't say much as dr. White.

But I want to I want to thank.

Chris richardson.

Uh, joe Ignacio and taylor ignacio.

And I want to thank of course eric. Nielsen my webmaster all of these people have.

Some of them have spent many hours trying to Get this studio restored to a

functioning level and I just thank all of you for the the hours that you

poured into this and I want to thank uh god for using you to Bring

your efforts to fruition and that this program is now successfully back on the air.

But uh, dr. White when we left off I wanted you to basically give a summary of those things

that You would think an orthodox profession of faith would need to include in order

to it to be viewed as a saving profession of faith.

Yeah,

well,

I

only

found

out

a

couple

hours

ago.

I sure hope some of those weirdos are listening right now.

And yet and yet somehow oddly.

He tells homosexuals that they're all going to hell and he doesn't even evangelize them and right in hopes that

they Come to christ and leave behind their damning activity and desires.

No, he doesn't believe they can't right.

Yes, it's interesting that we have the apostle paul.

In.

Galatians where He is making it clear.

The judaizers have a false gospel and he hits at the core of why.

The judaizers had a false gospel.

It's because it involved an effort involved in a mixture with faith in

christ.

Namely specifically the addition of baptism.

Uh.

I'm, sorry the addition of circumcision Uh to belief in christ in order to be saved.

And so that was a such a crucial An abominable thing to

paul that he declared the judaizers Uh to be accursed.

And he said that they their gospel was no gospel at all and even warned his

listeners that if he or even an angel from heaven Bring a gospel that was

other than the one that they had.

The apostles had declared to them that they should be touchy.

Situation.

In one of your debates on long island that I arranged with Mitch pacwa who I uh as you

do highly esteem him even though we believe He has a false gospel and is not our brother We still

view him as a a man of integrity and uh a man who I

I have never seen him in a debate with you where I think he consciously lied to you.

Oh, no There is other men.

Oh, yeah.

But he asked you.

And I think this was a little bit unfair of him.

I think he might have been trying to play the sympathy card.

But he asked you at one point during the debate.

Do you view me as your brother in christ?

Right and you said if you believe in the dogmas of

salvation that are Included in the council of trent.

There is no hope in that gospel.

It's just very simple.

Uh.

You did not immediately Say no, you're a roman catholic you're you're damned.

Right, uh you because there are as you know, there are roman catholics and there have been throughout history.

Who either through ignorance of rome what rome teaches about the gospel and they believe in a biblical

gospel?

Or they they know that rome teaches a false gospel and for some reason none of which I would agree with.

They remain in rome either to be a martin luther of the 21st century or more than

likely they're afraid to Cause a division in their marriage and their or their family or something else

because everyone else around them is catholic.

But uh.

That is really at the heart of it, isn't it?

I mean.

You don't have.

The apostle paul condemning anyone to hell For not understanding

predestination and election and so on.

And.

And those things although they're important they're more of the facts

that explain to us Why it is that we came to faith in christ and so on.

Am I right?

Yeah.

Yeah, exactly.

Well, we are going to our final break.

It's going to be much more brief than the last one.

So if you would like to get in line and ask Uh a question of dr. White.

We still have a few of you who are waiting.

I hope patiently to have your question asked and answered by dr. White.

Uh, but if you want to get in line, uh get in line now at chrisarnson at gmail .com.

Chrisarnson at gmail .com.

And give us your first name your city and state.

And your country of residence.

If you live outside the usa.

Only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter.

We'll be right back with dr. White.

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We have uh a listener.

I usually don't give listeners Uh full names, but when they are pastors

I tend to Uh plug their church and get and announce their full name pastor.

Justin pierce of grace reform baptist church.

In blountville, tennessee, hopefully i'm pronouncing that right.

Uh, he says brother chris, I wanted to ask dr White about his view on the necessity of a true

christian to affirm jesus as god the son.

However, he has answered it very well.

The question I have now for dr. White is Ch spurgeon disagrees with arminianism, but

affirmed that most calvinists began as arminians.

So why is there such a great gulf between arminian and calvinistic teachings today?

Thank you for your show.

This is my first time reaching out to you grace and peace.

Well, this is your first time pastor pierce.

Uh, you will be getting a free new american standard bible compliments of the publishers.

And compliments of cvbbs .com.

We'll be mailing it out to you.

So dr. White.

Do you have an answer to that question?

Yeah, I don't know what the numbers study.

Um, I think there are a lot of People who are

raised that way.

Um I

like

I said

had

in

my

youth

but

reformed

contact

calling

them to

faith

now.

Spurgeon.

Uh said something that I am certain many of those who we are referring to

today who have A gospel of perfectionism whether they call it that or not.

But spurgeon said that calvin is the gospel nothing more

uh, but we know That spurgeon did not believe that fellow calvinists were the

only brethren that he had on this planet.

In fact, he Had d l moody preach at the metropolitan tabernacle and

uh, dr. Moody was not a Fellow professing calvinist.

So we are obviously know that that has to be ruled out, but it's still A profound

statement was that hyperbole in your opinion or what did he mean by that?

That calvin is calvinism is the gospel nothing more.

Well,

all he

was a

kind of

because of.

They really are.

As I already said in the beginning of the program many of them have even uh denounced, uh, calvin as being right.

Yeah.

Because he didn't agree with them that only calvinists are in heaven.

Yeah.

Yeah, he he dared to say

one of the things that pastor pierce said that I don't remember specifically.

What you said?

Uh in addressing A necessity of believing in jesus as

god.

The son uh, we both know and i'm not going to mention his name because he

I may not be totally accurate in the way I described this But it's somebody who's a

hero of mine and I think a hero of yours Who has changed his view thankfully?

But he once said and I don't know how many years he had this teaching But although he

believed that jesus always existed And that jesus, uh is the second person of the

trinity, etc He did not receive The role and title of

son until the incarnation.

And as I said this person who we both love Abandoned that view And has an

orthodox historically orthodox and biblically sound View today in

regard to that, but but would that put that doctrine that teaching

outside of a category of things required to be saved.

Well the terminology.

By the way, uh, mary in cork ireland sent in an email that says i'm honored that my two

brothers across the pond Attempted to butcher my irish accent But in all fairness ye

did a good job for reformers.

Definitely.

Yep.

We have time for one last question from grady a very loyal listener to iron trip and zion radio and also a loyal

Contributor financially to this program.

Hi chris and dr. White.

Since the lord jesus christ Changed my life 30 years ago.

I have changed my position on church government eschatology and other doctrines

Wouldn't you say?

This is part of the sanctification process.

Well, wouldn't we have to know what those changes were?

That was sanctification.

He might have become a full preterist or something.

We don't know what the changes are.

I'm just.

I'm,

just

kidding

grady, by the way.

Yeah.

No,

but right

up

front.

Well, well,

dr.

White it has been a joy having you back on the show.

I look forward to frequent returns from you.

And I want to make sure our listeners know your website.

It's a o m i n dot org Which stands for alpha and omega ministries.

A o m i n dot org.

I want to thank you for moving your typically, uh, the typical

time that you air the dividing line Uh to an earlier time slot today so that you could be

on this program and uh, typically it's does it it bounces around a bit, but

typically the Dividing line is on tuesday and thursday, and it's typically on the same time as my show

I think but I think so.

But uh, if anybody wants to listen to the excellent program you can find out more details at a o m i n dot

org.

You can also find out about the books.

Dr White has written and anything that is coming up in the near future Where he is speaking or debating, but

thank you dear brother, and I look forward to you coming back soon.

All right.

Thanks brother.

All right.

Well god bless you and I want Everybody listening to always remember for the rest of your lives that jesus christ is a

far greater savior than you are a sinner.