The Pactum Q&A (Part 2) (2023)

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Part 2! This week’s episode is from the 2023 Pactum Conference, All Things New. This is a Q&A session with speakers, Michael Beck, Mike Abendroth, and Pat Abendroth.

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Classic Friday: Thankfulness or Jesus (Part 3)

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Welcome to Duplex Frati Radio Aka no compromise radio. This is Mike Ebendroth your host and I'm glad to be on today
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I think I said before that we have just been picked up by a station a radio station in Belize I had to look where Belize was
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Central America. That's true. But it's what white next to Guatemala So anyway, my name is
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Mike Ebendroth back to the introduction today Today's part to the pactum conference
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Q &A on Sunday morning moderated by my brother Patrick Ebendroth asking questions to Michael Beck and Asking questions to me or of me speaking of Michael Beck I think
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I will be on to age sojourner next week In real time and we'll get him on no compromise radio ministry
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Anyway today is part two of the pactum Q &A on Sunday at the pactum conference at Omaha Bible Church.
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Enjoy Okay, switching gears a little bit. Let's talk about mono covenantal ism. Michael Beck will say mono covenantal ism
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But we're praying for him. So Let's talk about mono covenantal ism what it is.
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Why you don't want to catch it and contrast it with a better view
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I saw them at the Omaha Civic Auditorium in 1978 they open for kiss
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That's why Siri never understands me when I say mono covenantal ism, sorry, could you please repeat?
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Mono covenantal ism. Oh Man, all right you go So mono is one covenant right as some kind of agreement or pact.
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There's different ways you could describe that What we are teaching and what you kind of hear behind the scenes are two
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Covenants the covenant of works do this and live the covenant of grace If you blend the two together you get gospel you get one covenant
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It's a covenant of works and gospel. And so then all this I'm and grace and you get one thing together
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Say well, how does that play itself out? I Could ask questions like this before the fall was there grace?
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That question determines whether you're a mono covenant list or you're not because if you think there was grace before the fall
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You're a mono covenant list. Was there grace before the fall? What's what's grace if grace is unmerited favor no
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Demerited favor. How could there be demerited favor before the fall you say? Well God was gracious and giving the law
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No, he was good and giving the law kind and giving the law, but it wasn't gracious because grace is reserved for sinners and Transgressors and lawbreakers and so we believe before the fall and we teach before the fall
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There was a law and as Michael said yesterday, there was a probationary period and if Adam were to Keep the law then there would be graduation to glory.
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I'm sure it's all theoretical now But Adam fell of course and then there needed to be a covenant of grace that started with Genesis 315
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And so those that are mono covenant unless they just blend the two that's got a book here Daniel Fuller He blends the two
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John Piper blends the two other folks a Bart blends the two Oh, there's an endorsement there by John Piper.
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And so things get kind of squishy And so lots of things happen if you're a mono covenant list, including what
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I talked about yesterday on That day when you die and stand before God and then there's the final judgment
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Will you make it if you're a mono covenant list? You'll you'll you'll kind of turn into almost
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Roman Catholic where you have to cooperate with what Rome You have to cooperate with God to get in We are teaching strictly covenant of works in a covenant of grace
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And by the way, Jesus paid it all and God only accepts perfect works I mean, there's nothing wrong with works, but they better be perfect to stand before God.
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So There's just a couple comments So just and I want Michael to talk about it but to go to your point because you explained
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James so nicely earlier So a mono covenant list is gonna say you've got to take Paul and take
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James and have him talking about the exact same thing And so you've got to have faith in Christ plus your works and then if you do enough
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God might accept you That's that would be a good example totally Romans 2 13 that I only alluded to yesterday
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The doers of the law shall be justified And we who believe in two covenants the covenant of works and the covenant of grace say to ourselves.
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He's just trying to show The people that they need the righteousness of God in Christ and that they can't do it
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The model covenant says, you know what the doers of the law shall be justified. How are you doing? Are you doing enough to get in keep going you need to blend those two things together law and gospel
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Yeah, just to repeat some of that and maybe just a slightly different spin The big slogan of the
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I'm gonna keep saying Mono Covenant list because it feels weird I'm just like then I was traffic light
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Mono Covenant listen, it's just gonna sound weird. I'm gonna sound American. I'm not gonna do it All right, and he probably says fill it because he's from South Africa not fillet
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Siri would understand me. So it's tempting. I think you say sir. What's so mean?
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Oh, so it means so that's right Things went dark pretty quickly
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We got in the car yesterday and he's like, why are you so aggressive I Said well if you want to know aggressive just look at my brother.
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Come on I'm just glad that's water and you just stop the coffee right now. You just enough coffee for you
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So the You're ruining the whole thing
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The big slogan is grace constitutes and law regulates
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So in other ways, let's mush all the covenants together, right one covenant eternal temporal
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Let's make them all one from the beginning. Listen, we don't want to talk about anything other than one covenant and The big slogan is always gonna be grace.
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There's always grace grace constitutes That's how could we have a covenant other than by grace is the idea and and you're always gonna have law that Regulates and that shows you the way to blessing and if anyone ever turns away from the way of blessing
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It's gonna end up in a way of cursing, right? So yeah, you are in the garden and You're Adam and Eve and we know the story.
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That's not a that's not a covenant of works. That's not a trial period that's just God graciously giving a covenant relationship to them and Calling them by the law to regulate their lives for blessing or for curse
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You're explaining the mono covenantalist perspective exactly. Okay, and we had people ready to come forward for an altar call
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They thought that was the right perspective. We got guys with guns. I'm cool. Sorry So and then we move on in the story after the fall
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To see exactly the same thing. It's like the fall didn't even happen God comes to Abraham and he says
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I'm graciously entering into a relationship with you and You can either live obediently
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To blessing or disobediently to cursing and then we go to Israel and look the same thing happens
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God enters into a relationship and you can either live obediently to blessing or disobediently to cursing and they chose the latter
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And then you get to the curse at least right to the new covenant and now it's exactly the same thing
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We're just like Adam in the garden. God comes to you and gives you a relationship and says, all right What are you gonna do
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Christian? Are you gonna live obediently to blessing or disobediently to cursing?
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So it's like there's no difference grace is not even on the table. It's not it's like a different religion in that sense
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It's it's terrible. Yeah So if you're looking up in a
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Bible search covenant of works and covenant of grace, you're not gonna find either one of those So just so you're aware we're talking about theological ideas to summarize theological concepts from the
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Bible so Mike said covenant of works do this and live you will find that statement from Jesus Because he's asked how to gain eternal life and in principle, it's true do this and live
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Obey the law perfectly personally and perpetually so we label that in theology a covenant of works kind of talk
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Covenant of grace a right relationship with God only and always has ever come freely to sinners by grace
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So there are concepts or ideas just so you're aware of that if you're not tracking It's almost shorthand, right?
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So if we want to say We say Arminian ism. It just means a lot, right?
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It's a zip drive full and we're just unlocking that and has all this information And of course we do that all the time. Don't we if I say
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Trinity, right? The Jehovah's Witnesses show up. They knock on the door and say the word Trinity is not in the Bible What do
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I always say a the word Bible is not in the Bible and be get off my property You know is aggressive
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No, I actually say well, you know, I'm glad you're here to talk about spiritual things. Do you have any good news and Since they're mono covenantalist they don't and so they don't have good news and they'll say well
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Just try to be good and do this and do that and and you'll make it in and I'm like you don't know how bad I am on the inside how awful
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I am. I've tried all that. There's no hope We'll just keep doing and then finally I say listen Let me tell you the good news and then
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I preach the gospel to them. What does that have to do with anything? Oh the word Trinity, there you go, right? We use certain concepts like that to understand
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Biblical doctrine that God's of you know, the Father's God the Son is God and the Spirit's God and there's one
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God three persons, etc So I'm gonna read a Bible Bible verse to you Words from Jesus and I want you to explain it to me in light of the fact
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Well, is it law or is it gospel? Is it covenant of works principle or covenant of grace principle?
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Those who have done good to the resurrection of life and those who have done evil to the resurrection of judgment
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The works principle works principle, is it true? Yeah, we it just a comment on that we we've recently started to confess the
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Athanasian confession at church and It ends with that and it really you know, it drives it hard, but if you read that recently, but you know
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This is what's gonna happen at the end if you've you know There's this principle of works up in play and people it's so full -on that people go
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Wait a minute. We don't know if we can say this stuff, but it's it's what's being said in the Bible the whole way through There's this great judgment according to works
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Everyone is gonna get judged according to works. This is the bad news This is the problem and we need someone to work on our behalf.
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And yeah, yeah Listen in a similar fashion to Revelation chapter 20 and I saw the dead great and small standing before the throne and the books were opened
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Then another book was opened which is the book of life and the dead were judged by what was written in the books according to what they had done and The sea gave up the dead who were in it death and Hades gave up the dead who were in them and they were judged
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Each one of them according to what they had done Then death and Hades were thrown in the lake of fire
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This is the second death the lake of fire and if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life
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He was thrown into the fire Did you catch what was going on there? There's two books
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One book is for the unbelievers and that book is full of deeds Everything that person has ever done are not done
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And there's another book no deeds written in that book only names Why because the deeds have been taken care of all the sinful deeds have been taken care of by the
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Lord Jesus Christ two books Deeds are names and for you dear
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Christian You are written in the Lamb's Book of Life and the only thing that's in there is not one of your sins that are going to be taken
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To account on that great day Because Jesus paid it all and for the unbeliever every deed that they've ever done will be taken account
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So aren't you glad that you're in the Lamb's Book of Life? Amen Don't be afraid of the law versus the law is good righteous and holy the covenant of works principle is all over the place and it's
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Wonderful because it reminds us of our need for accredited righteousness that comes from Christ. I just read from John chapter 5
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But if I keep reading and read the context, it's true Jesus believes in judgment based upon works
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But he also says in the same text truly truly I say to you Whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life
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He does not come into judgment, but it's passed from death to life It's already not yet settled.
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And so you all are Bible readers. This is Omaha Bible Church Read your
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Bibles, but don't read them poorly read them in context and and see all over the place.
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There's law and The law is good But it won't ever save you You need to look to the law keeper the
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Lord Jesus And that's good news to be received freely by faith. And once you see it as we like to say
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You can't unsee it and you can be great missionaries helping lots of Christians even Have assurance and give
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Christ's glory for it Especially in this part of town in this part of America that I grew up in This kind of thinking will really help you even with your evangelism
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Because you know dear Christian there is assurance found in Christ Jesus these things were written for you that you can really know
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You have assurance and it was Rome that took away assurance it is a sin to have assurance in the
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Roman Catholic Church, unless you're Mary or Paul and Rome takes away assurance and we try to give that to Christians And so if you ask your
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Catholic friends Do you know if you're gonna go to heaven or not? When they're really honest with you the answer has to be no according to the
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Roman Catholic doctrine and what a great opportunity for them for them for you For then you to talk about the
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Lord Jesus and assurance So we're getting close to wrapping up. So it we one thing we've not talked about on purpose this weekend
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Regarding eschatology. We've not talked about millennial views and We're not going to now either.
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Let's close in prayer. No What I would like to hear from each of you briefly would be
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What advice would you give if you were talking to someone who is just getting started exploring the views
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What might they be looking for as they're shopping for a view? Are we thinking millennial views particularly?
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Yeah, I would say stay away from all of that Until you figured out the basics because that you know, there's a there's a principle in you know
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Basic Bible study and interpretation that you always interpret the obscure by the clear never do it the other way around That's what cults do they take they take a obscure verse and they you know
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They let that dominate over all the all the clear verses and there's a similar idea
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I think in theology in general as you're putting everything together and trying to figure it out there are some areas in theology that are just very you know, unsure and and debated and even amongst
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Groups of Christians that are otherwise on the same page on everything else So that's got to be a sign to you that just hang on wait wait till the end to deal with that Settle the clear things first.
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So Ecclesiology is a lot clearer than eschatology if we're talking about millennial views You know even further
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Christology and even further, you know We can sort of work our way through it find out what those big ticket items are and look at those get those
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Cemented and so that you're sturdy and you actually believe them and that you know I always think of an anchor dragging along the sea a bottom and then it grabs a rock, you know
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And then it's just on that's how you want to feel about these these doctrines, you know Don't be just dragging around looking on sand
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You want to find a good solid rock and then you can move on to the next thing And I would leave the millennial issue till quite far down the track and you've got a lot of rocks holding you in place for That that storm and that debate
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I feel similarly about this matter of culture and so forth You know look at covenant theology rather than the culture debate and so, you know
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I think that's a good piece of advice. It'll keep you sane good helpful There's a reason why the
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Reformed confessions don't talk about the millennial views or which view they hold post mill
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I'm ill pre mill and if you read the Belgic Confession or you read Westminster or 1689 Read the end time section and here's what you'll generally see
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There's an end time section for you personally dear Christian what will happen you'll get a new body, etc
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So individual eschatology and then there's the eschatology of the Lord Jesus He's really gonna come back in a real body and he's going to come to judge the living in the dead
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And it leaves it there because those are the two most important things I'd also like to say that if you study eschatology, it should help your holy living.
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I don't mean millennial views, but Eschatology is ethical Jesus is coming back soon
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Let's not live holy lives. So he accepts us, but let's live holy lives in light of what he's done for us
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So people that study eschatology all the time when people tell me that's all I study I think I think you're probably should be really holy and I don't know how holy you really are.
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But s Eschatology should drive us to be Kind and warm and everything else super and it might be a good idea to determine whether or not you believe
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Jesus ascended And if he ascended what does that mean? And did he ascend to a throne and did he sit at the right hand of the father?
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Where he would rule and reign in righteousness that might help you with your millennial view.
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I agree. Okay. Oh Okay, 15 minutes before the service starts and we need to up that number what is it two hundred two thousand one hundred and twelve cups of coffee go enjoy some coffee and See you back here in just a little while for listening and being a part of the packed inverse
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You can find us online on Instagram and Twitter. You can be emailing us connect at the pactum dot org