Dead Men Walking Podcast: Dr Andrew Sandlin

Dead Men Walking

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00:12

Hello everyone, welcome back to another episode of Dead Men Walking. I am your host Greg Moore and to my left, maybe to your right if you're watching the pod video,

00:21

Jason Hamlin. How are you, sir? Hey, how's it going, Greg? Oh, I'm doing okay. And for those of you that are listening, you're going, what is going on right now?

00:28

This isn't the normal music. Yeah, we changed it up. Changed it up a little bit. I mean, it's a new year, 2021.

00:33

You know, we dropped the undisclosed location. I think everybody knows where we're at.

00:39

Everyone knows where we're at now. We're in Michigan. We're 55 episodes in and we keep talking about Michigan. Right, right. Up north, hunting and guns.

00:48

Even though just about every guest joked about that. But yeah, so new year, new tunes, new intro.

00:56

I heard the musician who played that and wrote that, it was just a handsome bearded fellow on a podcast.

01:02

Who is that? You know, I have no idea, but it sounds like he's a really great guitar player and I'd like to hear more of his music.

01:08

It's probably on iTunes. It's Jason Hamlin. Under Scratch Track. That's our musician, Jason Hamlin. Was that a selfless plug, shameless plug, something?

01:17

I don't know. That was from his band. Now, did you write that when you were in Japan? No, no. Yeah, right. Yeah, yeah.

01:22

Wrote that when I was 20 years old. I was thinking about it today. I'm like, when did we write that tune? Oh yeah, about 19, 20 years ago, something like that.

01:31

So, man, when you were 45. Yeah, I know. Here I am, getting close to 40.

01:36

Right. But, well, you know, I wanted to get right to the introduction of our guest. We got a couple new things, actually, this episode.

01:43

You know, obviously the intro is a little bit different. We're also starting a segment in the news. I did want to introduce someone who we have on the line here because I want him to jump in on the news, too.

01:55

So when you hear that voice coming in, you're not going, who is that? But today on the podcast we have, he's a

02:03

Christian minister, cultural theologian and author, founder and president of the Center for Cultural Leadership in Colderville, California.

02:10

Is that how we say it? Does that sound right? He was the former president of the National Reform Association, an all -around great guy, someone who's much smarter than us put together.

02:19

That's why we like to have him on the podcast. And I feel like we're going to get into some really good information here.

02:25

Dr. Andrew Samlin is on the podcast. How are you, sir? The crowd goes, whoa, whoa, whoa.

02:33

Very good, Jason. Thanks. Well, with an introduction like that, even

02:38

I'm excited to hear what I have to say. Cool. Well, I'll tell you what, you hang out for just a couple of minutes.

02:45

We're going to get into a couple of news stories. What we like to do is we pulled some stuff just from the week. Sometimes it's serious.

02:51

Sometimes it's fun, but just some stuff we came across over the week and we'll just do some quick commenting on it. And you know, and we've got a special little intro for you.

03:00

Here we go. I think we're going to start calling this the Newsy News segment. This is the Newsy News part of the show.

03:06

Let's get to it. Here we go. News, the News, the Newsy Newsy News, the News, the

03:11

News, the Newsy Newsy News, News. We got some news.

03:17

Oh, wow. Well, all right. Well, what's our first news story, Andrew? Man, we got some news coming at you.

03:23

That's right. So what's up? What do we got on the dock? So check this out. That's what Jesus would do.

03:28

A man returns $43 ,000 he found hidden in an old couch. So check this out.

03:35

Yeah, this guy in Michigan actually found $43 ,000 stuffed in a cushion that he bought from a

03:43

Habit for Humanity Restore, uh, Restoration Shop. The restoration.

03:49

Yeah, yeah, man. So anyway, he finds it and he just feels like he should return it to the owner.

03:55

And he does. To the owner of the shop that was selling the couch? No, to the owner of the couch.

04:02

So they went out of their way and found out who brought that couch in. Yeah. And gave, yeah.

04:07

And he gave back that, that cash. Wow. Maybe I am post mill. There are still good people in the world.

04:13

There are good people in this world and they're changing it for the good and for the betterment.

04:18

So 43 ,000, I don't know. I mean, what would, what would, I mean, would you be able to take, would you be able to give it back?

04:24

That would be hard because you go, well, um, I bought it. Yeah. It's mine. Yeah. This is legal transaction here.

04:31

I had my, my dad, my father told me something very wise. He goes, you know, it's not a sin to gamble, but I don't like gambling if it feels like it's taking something from someone else or if it becomes something to where I need it more than them.

04:42

Like whether even it's a friendly game of poker with friends. And I feel like I kind of take that same concept and go, yeah, you know, that's, that is someone else's 43 ,000 is a decent size of money to, you know, to misplace.

04:54

Yeah. Yeah. Um, then again, I don't know, was it, was it drug money where I was hiding in the couch? Have no idea.

05:00

Why? Yeah. Well, I mean, on this, uh, on this report, it's, it's, it looks like it was, uh, an older gentleman that had passed away.

05:07

They, uh, his family, yeah. Donated the couch. Dr. Sandlin. If someone dropped $43 ,000 into your lap and said, here you go, it's yours.

05:16

What do you think you would do with it right now? I send them a CCL tax donation receipt.

05:22

Nice. There we go. Oh, I love it. Um, uh, story number two, we got, we got some, uh,

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David Hasselhoff, he's, uh, auctioning off the Hoff kit car.

05:36

Are you all right, Michael? There we go. You all right, Michael? Yeah. Yeah. So the auction, uh, was scheduled to end

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January 23rd and reached a high bid of $975 ,000 as of Thursday afternoon, far exceeding the auctioneer's estimate of $175 ,000 to $300 ,000.

05:54

So do you think you would, uh, go after buying that car? I don't know. How much was it?

06:00

$200 ,000? He's up to $975 ,000. Nine, almost a million dollars for that. Was it kit?

06:06

Yeah. But it talks to you. I mean, this car. Well, so does a 1988, uh, New Yorker. I don't, I don't know if I need to spend a million dollars on a car.

06:15

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Right. Wow. So a piece of my, uh, my childhood up for sale. There you go.

06:20

Probably a lot of us in that age range. Right. Well, I mean, Hasselhoff, man. I mean, you know, he is the

06:25

Hoff. I've always said in your band, Scratch Track, you are the Hasselhoff of Japan. I am. Yes, I am.

06:31

You guys were huge in Japan. So, you know, he, like how he was in Germany. Well, I don't have the hair. I would love to have the hair, but I have not got the hair.

06:38

Uh, no, I don't think I'd buy it. I'd pass on that. I could, I could find a better ways to spend a million dollars if I had it.

06:44

Yeah. Right. All right. Let's finish it up. Exactly. So what do we got for the third one? The third one is going to be a little bit more serious and should get us into our discussion here.

06:54

But, uh, the house Dems delete terms, mother and father and redefine family member in gender neutral rules.

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I saw this last week. I couldn't. Can you believe this? So within the house rules. Yeah. So they have, you know, uh, a certain set of standards that they abide by in the house.

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Uh, Robert's rule, seventh edition, I think on some of the subcommittees and things like that. And so basically

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Pelosi and her ethics committee and bylaws committee came out and said, we're no longer using those gendered terms, right?

07:25

Mother and father. Mother and father. Yeah. Wow. I mean, uh, yeah, I think that they are changing it just to parents.

07:33

You can only say parents. You can't refer to them. I can say whatever I want. I'm not a member of the house of representatives.

07:39

Yeah, exactly. It's, it sounds like you can, you probably can say the word them and they, um, uh, but well, non -gender specific, right?

07:46

Yeah, exactly. So what's the world coming to on that? I did see a tweet by, I think it was a, uh, a

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U S house representative. I can't remember his name. Maybe Dr. Sandlin knows, but, uh, and he just basically said, this is ridiculous.

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Signed a husband, a father, a son, you know, just kind of rubbing it a little bit, right?

08:05

Like, what do you want us to, what do you want us to call each other? I just think this is a more appeasing.

08:10

Yeah. Uh, I mean, this is really, you have the majority of Democrats, well, maybe not the majority anymore, but close to it, uh, probably moderate or, or, uh, you know, center left.

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And they're just appeasing that radical, far extreme progressive agenda that has really overtaken the democratic party in the last two to four years.

08:27

And, uh, to not have gendered terms. I mean, what, what do you think about that? Dr. Sandlin? What, what is going on?

08:36

I agree. I agree with you guys. It's the latest in the March of the, uh, sexual revolution and it's the coercive politicization of, uh, the sexual revolution.

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And it's, uh, sadly, it's not only happening in, uh, in Congress, but, uh, many prominent businesses, uh, so -called preferred personal pronouns that you can decide whether you're going to be called him or her, uh, despite your biological gender, um, which is what the

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Bible calls, uh, he or she, a male or female, we would say, but, uh, this is, this is an example of a subversion of the created orders, the attack on the created order.

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And that has been the fundamental attack of the last 10 or 15 years, uh, not so much in the church, but in the culture.

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And sadly, many churches aren't equipped to deal with it because it doesn't fall into the categories of ordinary theology because they don't have a theology of creation.

09:34

But, uh, tragically, that's what's happening and this must be resisted at all costs. Right. Did you have some jet?

09:43

Yeah. Yeah. I didn't know if the, the, uh, camera there, uh, went out there again. Um, uh, so that, that leads us into the topic, uh,

09:51

Dr. Sandlin, I reached out to you after I read this post that you put up on Facebook and, uh, the post, uh, was here.

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I'll just go ahead and read it right here. One of the great satanic lies is that the sinful world is normal and that Christians must retreat into their churches and families to encounter the abnormal, but spiritual godly world.

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God's good world alone is normal. And the goal of Christians everywhere must be to deprivilege, destabilize, and decimate the false delusional world of sin and replace it with the real world.

10:31

And I thought that was really interesting, uh, Dr. Sandlin. I don't know if you want to expound on that a little bit and just share with our listeners, your thoughts.

10:44

Yeah. Thank you, my friend. I, um, I guess presupposing that, uh, post is, uh, what

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I believe the Bible teaches, uh, as its foundational, uh, storyline, which is creation, fall, redemption.

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God created the world very good and man fell into sin, but God of course promised the savior,

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Genesis three 15. We know it's Jesus Christ to crush the, uh, the work of Satan.

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Uh, as we look around in the world and we see what's going on, you just mentioned specifically what's going on in Congress with, uh, the getting rid of pronouns or a mother or rather a father, mother, and so on, uh, language.

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Uh, this really is an attack and a rebellion on Jesus Christ and on the created order.

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Uh, the calling of Christians is actually to resist the evil in an appropriate way, of course, uh, wherever it is now, it's possible to retreat into the church and to say that our only calling is to make sure the church is pure.

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We preach the gospel and, uh, we try to help with individual Christian sanctification, but as a matter of fact, the

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Bible teaches that Jesus Christ came to establish his kingdom and to his kingdom, his rule in the earth, uh, that rule isn't postponed until the second coming though it won't come then of course, and, uh, only then will it come in all of its fullness of the, uh, consummation, but rather he said that his kingdom was already present in the world.

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Our calling as Christians is to influence the world through the preaching of the gospel and, uh, in accordance with God's holy law revealed in his word, the influence of the world for the truth of Jesus Christ and for biblical truth and for God's authoritative moral standards, uh, that is not somehow, uh, in addition to the great commission, but it's included in it, the great commission is the good news, the gospel of Jesus Christ, but the gospel according to Matthew 28 and the good commission is bringing all things, all nations and subordination of Jesus Christ.

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So therefore, as I think I said, toward the end of that Facebook post, our calling is to deprivilege and defeat, um, and to destabilize, destabilize evil to the extent that we can everywhere that we see it, that's not a prominent

13:08

Christian calling, it was much more prominent in the United States and in Europe, 200 to 500 years ago with our forefathers, it's not so prominent today, but I think things that are happening today, even things we've seen this last week, should cause

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Christians to reconsider their view of Christian responsibility in the world. Yeah, I, I mean,

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Gnosticism, um, and, uh, dispensationalism and pre -mill is something that comes to mind.

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That's something that I grew up with. Um, I mean, beating into me was, uh, live a humble life, you know, be quiet, like don't say anything, don't, don't, you know, speak up most of the time.

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You just keep yourself, get through life. And that's the way it goes. You know, we're trying to escape.

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We're trying to get out of here. Right. Um, uh, for the train to come. Yeah. Yeah. Waiting for the train to come pretty much.

14:01

I mean, we're, and, and here we are with all of these different things that are happening in the world right now.

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And you have some, um, in the Christian faith that are really happy about this.

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They're just like, see, see, that's what they said was going to happen. It's great. This is great. You know? And, and there's others that are saying, well, this is a part of the process.

14:20

This is the same as our salvation. I mean, we go through some really tough stuff through our salvation, you know, um, as we're being sanctified.

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I mean, so here we are with, with this, uh, with this situation that happened this past week at the

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Capitol. And we have, uh, many different areas of politics that are, that are being infringed on and I'm not, and, and government, maybe

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I should say, I'm not just speaking about politics, uh, as in, uh,

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Trump and Biden, but also in the family, I mean, the family's being attacked, um, our economy, uh, you know, our, uh,

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I don't know, there's, there's so many different areas that are being attacked right now. Um, Dr.

15:02

Sandlin, could, could you just expound upon some of, some of that and, um, uh, maybe, you know, tell us a little bit more.

15:10

I mean, yeah. And to tack onto that, if you don't mind, Jason, does your, you know, I don't want to get into an eschatology episode, but can your eschatology affect the way that you do advance the kingdom of Christ and the way that you do preach the gospel?

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Because I kind of grew up, Hey man, we just hide out and we wait for that rapture and he's going to take us out of here and don't worry, we won't have to suffer.

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We won't have, you know, and it almost gave a very inclusive kind of Christian walk, just don't, you don't really need to witness too much, maybe to the one or two guys you see out in daily life, but don't be too forthright with it.

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Cause we're, we're up and out of here pretty soon anyway. Right. Great question,

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Jason asked, actually eschatology shapes in very practical ways, the entire Christian life.

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There's an old adage that eschatology presupposes pro -theology, pro -theology is the beginning of things.

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We go back to creation and fall redemption. So our view about what God is doing in the world is going to impact how we live our life.

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Uh, now the Bible does not teach a theology of escape. It teaches a theology of a victory, right?

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Uh, even though there's great, there are great difficulties and we're going through some of them right now. There are individual difficulties and those in the family and church and politics and elsewhere, we're called to extend the kingdom of God.

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And in my view, the promises of the word of God are very clear that there's going to be a great, uh, uh, reformation and the great revival and a great extension of the authority of God and the law of God before Christ comes in the very end.

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Uh, there are good people that disagree with that, of course, historically and today, but make no mistake about it.

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Your eschatology will determine how you live your everyday

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Christian life. If I got up in the morning and didn't believe that I was on the winning side, that Christ died not only for my sins, but for the sense of the world, not that every single person would be saved by any means, but the gospel would be effective before the end that we're going to win before Christ returns.

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And that I'm on the winning side. I'm not going to escape, but I, and my children, great grandchildren, great grandchildren, the church of Jesus Christ.

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Well, by the power of the spirit, extend the kingdom of God in time of history. If I say I didn't believe that,

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I don't know that I could get out of the bed in the morning. Right. Right. Yeah. I, uh, I, I march forward in victory every day and, uh, that's the power of the spirit of God to change individuals and families and churches and society.

17:42

Right. Yeah. I, I just, uh, over the past couple of years, uh, have become post mill and just realized just how important it is, you know, to, to, uh, to teach my children.

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I mean, just to bring it back just to the family unit, you know, and, and, you know, as we're, as we're, um, uh, you know, teaching them, uh, how to live and, and, you know, grow in Christ.

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Um, uh, I mean, it's very important for, for us to, to care about that next generation and how my children are going to teach their children and how my grandchildren are going to teach my great grandchildren, you know, how, you know, thousands and thousands of generations possibly until Christ return.

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Um, uh, but yeah, it's, it's a very interesting, uh, you know, conversation definitely to have with, with some in the

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Christian faith for sure. Yeah. So you mentioned, oh, go ahead.

18:44

No, I just, one of you, I think mentioned, uh, Gnosticism and dispensationalism without going too far afield, a prominent idea within the church is actually heretical is that, uh, is dualism that is material thing, uh, uh, um, material body and money and work, uh, and so on are somehow secondary or substandard.

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And that which is inside us and immaterial and heaven and the Holy spirit and so on, these are on a much higher level and that we shouldn't really concern ourselves with politics and with art and education and with music and with training our children in the faith over many generations, but rather we should concern ourselves with escape going to heaven.

19:25

Right. Well, that's actually an ancient Gnostic heresy. There's nothing Christian about that. And that's what needs to change in the church.

19:32

Right. So, yeah, that kind of goes right into what I was going to ask. So what world reactions to this?

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So we say things like preach the gospel, advance the kingdom, love your neighbor. These are all great

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Christian, these slogans, but what does that look like for you or for our listeners? How would you tell them what's the real world reaction to that?

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When you see what's happening at the Capitol, when you see what, you know, you've been on that news story, the, you know, the non -gender terms in the house of representatives, when you see anyone misgendering someone in California, that's a state employee that can face 90 days in jail.

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When you see churches being shut down, all these things happening in the United States, what are some real world

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Christian reactions? And when I say Christian, someone with a Christian worldview who's saved and a Christ follower.

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I feel like sometimes even when two people say Christian to one another, we have to define that now just because of that whole

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Christian evangelical. I mean, we have such a wide range of what that means. What are some real world things just very quickly?

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You know, for me, it was get involved in politics. I'm a locally elected official here because I looked around and I said, I have a

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Christian worldview and I want to bring that to a local level of politics. Now, some in the church would disagree and say, look at, you're not supposed to get involved in politics.

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It's kind of like an escapism. Like you were saying, nope, just lay low. Just be nice to people. Don't get in the way equality.

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And hopefully we get scooped up out of here. I actually look at it as the

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Lord, what limited gifts he's given me and what limited things I have by his grace.

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Hopefully I can help in some way. What are some real world things you tell our listeners that are looking at this last week and going, well, what's my response to that?

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If it's not escapism, if it's not hole up in my house and you know, read my Bible and, and, and watch you know, angel flicks or what's the

21:14

Christian Netflix. What, what, from your, from your view, what do we do?

21:20

Yeah. Okay. Well, what you said you're doing is right on track. Uh, the fact is that the Bible says the earth is the

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Lord's and all of its fullness and every aspect of life should be brought under his authority.

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What you've touched on and what you're doing is what every single individual should do in his own calling and sphere.

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God has gifted each one of us and given us a calling. I don't care if it's writing computer code.

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I don't care if it's selling automobiles. I don't care if it's digging ditches. I don't care if it's moms homeschooling their children or serving as secretaries or whatever the case may do.

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I don't care if you're working for Amazon, delivering packages, whatever. Your goal is to obey the word of God and to influence others around you to obey the word of God and to conform it to God's holy law.

22:06

Now, uh, some people would consider that being pushy. And of course, uh, I'm not advocating, uh, any sort of violence or unkindness all all to the contrary.

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But the Bible does say in Proverbs 28, four, that the righteous are to contend with lawbreakers and the wicked.

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And that Paul says in Ephesians five, don't have any fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather expose them.

22:28

Uh, so we have to live a life that by its obedience exposes evil and with our mouth expose the evil and find ways to implement

22:37

God's law, your case and politics, Jason, working within the. Moral law wisely, crudely, of course, not stupidly.

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And I know you would never do that because you're not a stupid guy. You're a smart guy, but implement the authority of God's law where God has called you, and this is true, not only in politics, but in any one of these areas to extend the kingdom of God, which is the rule of God, which is bringing all things under the authority of Christ and his law, that means preaching the gospel, but not a very narrow gospel such that we'll trust

23:11

Christ and he'll take you to heaven. The gospel is an inherently transformational of this world. We have a history of that.

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That's why we had Christian culture. Uh, our society, uh, North America was settled by European people who believed essentially what

23:27

I'm saying. They believed in the kingdom of God. We would in the world, we wouldn't agree with them on all points.

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Some of them were different sectors of the church, but not one of them believed in the theology of escape. They all believed in the theology of victory.

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That's what gave us England, for example, and that's what gave us the United States of America.

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So wherever God has placed you bringing it back, wherever God has placed you, extend the kingdom of God, according to the word of God, that's a specific tactile way, wherever you are, whatever

23:58

God's called you to do. I love it. Right. That's awesome. Yeah. He's, he's making all things new, not making all new things.

24:06

Correct. Sure. Yeah. It goes very nicely with what is the first Corinthians 10, 13 or 23, whatever you do, whether you eat, drink,

24:13

I mean, profession, work, do it all into the glory of God. Right. Definitely. What am I, what am I a favorite versus what do you got,

24:19

Jay? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I mean, I, I had a lot, I had it. Do you have three hours?

24:26

We'll just go off on you and just go rapid fire here and ask you a weird questions that we've always, that we like asking smart people, but yeah,

24:35

I've got an odd ball for you and it's not really in your realm of expertise. So, uh, and it's off the wall here.

24:40

I had a conversation with a listener, uh, who's who I'm also related to. So honestly, it's just a, just a family.

24:46

It's your wife. And it's not my wife. We were, we were talking about the fall, uh, of man and he made, he made a statement and said, you know,

24:55

I think that the world was in a fallen state when Adam and Eve were in the garden of Eden because he believes

25:02

Satan sin. And that's in sin is, is decay and death. And that started a cycle of, of decay.

25:10

And Adam and Eve were actually protected in the garden before the fall. And I went,

25:16

I don't know. I've never really heard that there's speculation there. Obviously there's nothing, uh, biblically there.

25:21

It's, it's a theory, uh, like some other things we talk about. What's your view on that? And where do you know where that theory comes from of almost now he does believe obviously that the, you know, we, we fell and we sin and we're in sin nature and all those things.

25:35

He just seems to think that it actually started with Satan's sinning, uh, and turning against God.

25:42

What do you think? No, it's an older idea. I'm not sure anybody knows who first propounded it, but I think, uh, respectfully,

25:50

I think it's mistaken, uh, according to Paul and Romans and elsewhere, sin entered the world through one man and that one man, according to Romans five is

25:59

Adam. And of course, Adam and Eve, uh, Eve seduced her husband and he was willing to be seduced into sin.

26:06

So, uh, the parallel of Romans five is the second Adam leads us out of the sin that the first Adam led us into.

26:13

It's certainly true that the serpent, uh, Satan personified or acting for Satan or whatever, uh, was sinful, but creation was not by no means.

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You, if you're reading Genesis one and two to the Lord, look at creation and said, it was good.

26:29

And then he looked at it. God looked at everything he'd created. It was very good. Very good. It was not sinful. Yeah. I've been entered the world through Adam, one man.

26:36

So yes, then was existent in the universe, but not in creation until Adam and Eve. There we go.

26:42

It's like a quiz bowl in here. Yeah. Yeah. Right, right. What do you got? Throw one out for him there. Yeah. Yeah. Well, well,

26:48

I do a little promoting. I was, well, I was, uh, trying to find a great, um, just quote from you,

26:56

Dr. Sandlin. And I really liked this. Um, uh, it was when, wherever sin is, redemption has to go.

27:05

And that was such a, such a great quote. Um, that, that I heard from you and doesn't have to follow.

27:13

Yeah. Must also be there. Correct. And this, and this sounds like a post mill, uh, thought is that, is that where you were going?

27:22

Yeah. Yeah. I think people don't understand that my friend, sadly, uh, the Bible says we're sin abounded, grace abounded much more.

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So there's the, uh, by sin must be redeemed, whether it's unkindness or lust or a false covetous desires, whatever it is.

27:51

But I'm not really concerned about external things like a legalized abortion and a same sex marriage, so -called marriage.

28:00

It's not really marriage and socialism. Uh, that's not really my, I'm not really concerned about those things.

28:06

Christ died to take care of and to get rid of my sin and take me to heaven. But you see, uh, in the fall, in the garden of Eden, every area of creation was subject to sin and therefore, because every area of creation in the world is subject to sin, every area presently subject to sin must be redeemed.

28:26

Now that's brings up something. A lot of Christians just don't understand. Christ didn't die just for my sense to take me to heaven.

28:32

He died to get rid of sin in the world. Incrementally, all of it, abortion and, uh, homosexuality and socialism and, uh, rebellion and, uh, modern, uh, views of the arts, degraded arts, uh, degradation on TV and the movies, uh, all, all of these, uh, false ideologies in our world today, a radical, radical feminism and, um, false religions like Islam.

29:03

And of course I could go on and on. The point about it is the Christ died to get rid of sin, all sin, individual sin, familial sin, ecclesial sin, social sin everywhere.

29:14

Now it's not going to happen immediately. The Bible doesn't say it happens immediately any more than when you're converted, all of your sins are gone immediately.

29:23

Right. That's what sanctification is all about. Right. The problem with many Christians is they understand individual sanctification, but they don't understand social and institutional sanctification.

29:32

Right. They understand that we should grow in grace, but they don't understand that the rest of society should grow in grace under the power of the spirit of God.

29:40

So, uh, no understanding this really reorients our entire viewpoint, our entire worldview. Right.

29:48

Yeah. So, I mean, that kind of, once again, I think we're going to touch on it, uh, cause we've had some listeners actually, uh, reach out to us and we have a wide range of listeners.

29:56

Uh, I grew up and so did Jason and a couple of different type of denominational churches and non -denominational churches.

30:03

So we have kind of a crazy background between us, between, uh, fundamental and legalism, and then very kind of almost, uh, uh,

30:10

NAR centered later on in my teen years, so it was very charismatic and Pentecostal and we picked up some friends like that along the way.

30:16

So some, some people that listen and share, we always do get back to, I don't know why it's, it's, it feels like it's just a really getting popular in the last few years, but this end time stuff is people are really getting interested in it and they're going, well, what is

30:31

Post Mill? What is a mill? What, why should I believe that? And it sounds like, uh, to me just in that last response, you're, you're kind of swinging into that, uh, that worldview and that eschatology of, of, of Post Mill.

30:45

Can you give a little couple minutes, I won't do it justice on the whole subject, but just for listeners to a

30:51

Post Mill definition and why you believe that biblically. Um, so this, in some ways,

31:01

Post Mill is not the absolute best language because it drives us directly to Revelation 20, which talks about the thousand years.

31:08

And that is important, but that's certainly not the only place in the Bible where you would get, I would say a victorious, uh, eschatology.

31:16

So my eschatology begins, uh, in Genesis one with creation. And of course, Genesis three, the crushing of Satan said that these glorious promises in the old

31:26

Testament, there are promises that the Messiah would come and he would crush evil and that, uh,

31:32

Jesus Christ would be exalted on David's throne and that throne would influence the world. Well, again, we, there's so much we could say, but when we come to Acts chapter two, and when

31:42

Peter is preaching, he says that that is fulfilled. That is the one on David's throne, Christ himself, when he rose from the dead and he ascended into the heaven, he now rules from David's heavenly throne.

31:54

And all of the nations will bow before him. We read in the rest of the new Testament. Now, the fact is that was one of the leading texts in the scripture that led me to embrace.

32:04

Uh, there are other texts I could mention to embrace post -millennialism. What he's really saying there is Christ ruling on David's throne is not something that happens only when

32:13

Christ returns, but it's a present reality. Um, this is why we see a number of texts.

32:21

Uh, the, uh, the Psalms were quoted about Christ, the evil and Satan being crushed under the feet of Messiah.

32:27

That's quoted again and again. Uh, Psalm 1101, um, it's quoted again and again in the new

32:33

Testament. In fact, no, no old Testament text is quoted more frequently in the new

32:38

Testament, but that is quoted as though it's a present reality. Not as though it's something that's going to happen only in the future, though it will come to its fullness in the future.

32:48

Uh, so many examples in the book of Daniel about when Jesus Christ, when the Messiah comes.

32:53

And when he comes in the days, you see this, uh, and I don't, again, don't have time to go into detail, but the little expression in the days of those

33:01

Kings that it's the Kings of the Roman empire and, and, uh, who succeeded Greece and the Medes and the

33:06

Persians and Babylon, but that in the days of those Kings, God will set up his kingdom.

33:12

Well, in the Roman empire, that was actually 2000 years ago. He's not referring to something, you know, thousands or even 15 years ahead of our time.

33:21

So in the scripture, these kingdom promises and the promises of the old

33:26

Testament about a glorious, godly, global time happen as a result of Christ's first coming and not as a result of his second coming.

33:35

It all in the second coming, actually in the Bible brings the end. First Corinthians 15 says that then comes the end.

33:41

When Christ comes, that's when the third, the final resurrection, that's when there's the final judgment. That's when eternity begins.

33:48

When Christ comes, he doesn't come to establish a kingdom that wasn't already there, the kingdom already is here.

33:54

The consummate kingdom, of course, the eternal kingdom only comes when he comes, but the reality of the kingdom occurred.

34:01

And this is, I think, one of the fundamental issues to understand. Christ's first coming, and particularly his resurrection, his ascension, that is what started to fulfill the kingdom of God in the earth, and it has not been postponed until the second coming.

34:17

That was sort of like a four or five minute crash course, but that's kind of the gist of it. Yeah. I, I tend to hear people say things like, yeah,

34:26

Christ is on the throne, but he only has so much authority on earth, you know?

34:32

I don't know if that's something that just started happening 150 years ago, you know, with pre -mill or what it was, but I don't understand how, from the scripture, people can't understand that Christ is seated at the right hand of the father right now, and all of his enemies are being put under his feet, you know?

34:53

No, that's right. Think about it. Matthew 28, the Great Commission, all authority is given to me right now.

35:00

What he's saying is that he's the mediator. The father has given to his son this mediatorial authority, and then in turn, he is charging, he is giving a commission to, under my authority, he's giving a commission to these disciples to go out and disciple all nations.

35:14

By the way, he doesn't say individuals, nations, ethnos, all people group. So it's not just go win a soul here or there, it's bring all nations collectively under my authority.

35:24

So this means something else, guys, I hope this will be encouragement to your listeners. This is really vital for the church to understand.

35:32

The church will never have any greater resources for preaching the gospel, extending the kingdom of God than it has right now.

35:41

The idea that we have to wait for the Lord to come and then we'll have something greater, totally false. According to Acts chapter two, what do we have?

35:48

All of these gifts are poured out on the church. Christ is seated in the heavenlies and he's pouring out all of these gifts on the church to extend the preaching of the gospel, the

35:58

Great Commission, the kingdom of God. So the church will never have greater resources for fulfilling the

36:03

Great Commission than what she has right now. We don't have to wait till the second coming for there to be a great and massive change.

36:10

That's not true. The promises, the gospel promises, all of them are for us right now. Amen. Yeah, no, absolutely.

36:17

I mean, even what we're doing right now, when this goes live, I mean, thousands and tens of thousands of people will hear it and you go, how else?

36:26

I mean, what else do we want? I mean, the Lord drops the tools in our laps, gives us the freedom to share it.

36:32

Well, hopefully for a little bit longer in this country and the rest of the world. More freedom than we've ever had as Christians.

36:38

OK, arguably, I would say more latitude. Yeah. And then we kind of get, you know, kind of get in a little funk and just go, oh, we just need to hide out.

36:46

The world hates us. I mean, that's the big thing, the backlash from some of my Christian friends and leaders that have said, man, the world, it's just unreasonable how the world hates us.

36:55

And they, you know, they're judging us by a double standard and they're not treating us with equality.

37:01

And it's like, well, what do you think Christ said? Right. He said, you will be hated. Right. What's this thing where we think the world's going to love us?

37:08

Light and darkness have nothing to do with each other. Yeah, exactly. And I just don't know why we haven't been mentally, spiritually, emotionally, physically prepared for that as the church.

37:14

I think we're going to get a crash course in this country very quickly. But Christ is king. Right. I mean, he's ruler overall.

37:21

Amen. That's right. So a little bit off subject here, if you don't mind. What do you got going on right now? Do you have any books out?

37:26

Are you speaking anywhere where our listeners or a website they could jump on and kind of take a look at what you got going on?

37:33

Yeah. Thanks, Jason, for doing that. Yes, I just wrote a book. I think you guys might have it or know about it. I discussed the creational theology is called the creational worldview.

37:42

An introduction of the website where you can go to get this stuff is just Christian culture dot com,

37:47

Christian culture dot com. You can go to my website with Doc Sandlin. Just written this one word,

37:53

Doc Sandlin dot com. You can sign up for all sorts of propaganda and really cool stuff there. And for those of you,

37:59

I know you guys are a long way from South Texas, but I'll be speaking with Gary DeMar in the Rio Grande Valley in I think it's the 16th, 17th, 18th, that week into February next month.

38:11

And again, you go to the website and find out that out or go to my Facebook page. I hope I still have a Facebook page after what's been going on the last week.

38:18

But I think I think it'll be there. But yeah, those are some of the things I've got a book coming out called an e -book.

38:25

I do a lot of both hard copy e -books come out about once a month or two months. One called

38:31

Total Revolution. And again, if you contact me in some of those platforms, I'll be happy to let you know about that.

38:37

Just wrote one on religionless Christianity. You ever heard people say, oh,

38:42

Christianity is a relationship. It's not a religion. Well, I think that's wrong. Christianity is a right religion.

38:48

And I've got a book on that. So, yeah, so Christian culture dot com, Doc Sandlin dot com. Find me on Facebook and I'm on Twitter.

38:55

And also, I think I'm still on Twitter and all sorts of other. So, yeah, that's the way to do that.

39:00

Get to get in contact. I like how he gives us the hot take right at the end of the episode. There he goes. It's not a relationship.

39:06

It's a religion, but you have to buy the book. Yeah, I agree. I love it. Yeah. But, you know, that's so cool.

39:12

Gary was on the Mr. Damar was on the show a few months ago. Yeah. And we went to fight lab fees.

39:17

Yeah. And what a joy he was. That's so cool that you guys are speaking together. I know we've been praying for him on some of the I think the medical issues he's been having.

39:24

But so awesome to hear you guys down there. If you don't mind, what do you guys what do you guys gonna be talking about down there at that conference?

39:32

Yeah. So the theme of the conference sort of little take on some language you all and everybody here will be aware of is make

39:37

Christianity great again. Oh, Jason, are we driving down?

39:43

I know. Right. Am I about to go to Texas? February is road trip. Sounds great. I there's nothing wrong.

39:50

I like that theme, make America great again. But the problem is many Americans don't know what made America great in the first place.

39:57

Right. And frankly, it was Christianity. So we're talking about a world affirming and world conquering

40:03

Christianity. And one reason that the faith is so weak today. And I must tell you guys, it's very hard even to say, but it's true is that what passes for Christianity today is not really boldly

40:14

Christian. It's kind of a diluted. Amen. Right. An emaciated faith. So we're going to talk about how to get back a full or muscular faith.

40:22

Yeah. That's beautiful. Jason, you want to take us out? We're going to wrap up here. Take us out on a quick question if you got anything.

40:28

Yeah, no, no. I just want to thank you, Dr. Sandlin, for taking the time to come on our little podcast here.

40:34

And, you know, God, God bless. And thank you so much for for taking the time to do this.

40:41

Yeah, absolutely. For us, for me, too. It was such a joy to have you on. Well, guys, thank you so much for tuning in.

40:48

Thanks for letting us change the intro on you. Yeah. Try a new segment out on you. Obviously, we're going to post all the links to Dr.

40:55

Sandlin's website, his books when this podcast goes live, which I think will go live here in a few days.

41:01

We'll make sure we link you in on social media when it goes live as well. And as always, guys, we appreciate the likes, the follows, the reposts, the comments, the reviews,

41:13

Google and Spotify. Why why we're still there? I just had a group text of friends go right after the

41:20

Capitol storming. They said, so what's the over under on Greg and Jason's podcast? They got another year left.

41:25

Yeah. About about a couple more weeks. And oh, my gosh, I don't know. But guys, we do appreciate it.

41:31

Dr. Sandlin, do you have any final words for us as we wrap up here? No, I just want to thank you.

41:37

And I would encourage all your listeners to hang on to the promises of the word of God. Don't postpone the promises to the future.

41:44

Realize that we're on the winning side. That Christ died on the cross and rose again and ascended. And he's king and ruler over all.

41:50

So walk in faith and obedience and a great confidence and joy. Oh, where's my organ drop?

41:55

Preach brother. Thank you so much. And guys, as always, if you have any questions or anything, make sure you reach out to us as always.