Anons and Online Etiquette

Welcome, once again, to the American Churchman Podcast. I am your host, John Harris. We aim to encourage you as a churchman, probably in the United States, but you might be also listening in other places, to glorify God in your family, in your community, and of course, in your church.

And with us today, we have a special guest. Matthew Pearson is not here, but in his stead, we have Pastor Jerry Dorris, who is the pastor of Reformation Church in Shelbyville, Kentucky. It is a confessionally Baptist church.

I have spoken there, and he co-hosts the Snake on the Table podcast with Tanner Cartwright. Some of you might've heard that. If you live in the area, please check them out, and thank you for being with us, Pastor Dorris.

I'm glad to be here, brother. I'm excited.

Me too, yeah. We're gonna talk a little bit today about anon accounts, but also just, more broadly speaking, online etiquette, which is something that I feel a little bit, I don't know, not, I don't wanna say not prepared for it, but just like, it's something that's so new that we haven't really figured out what this is yet.

And so I'm looking forward to hearing some of your thoughts. But maybe just tell everyone a little bit about yourself, because you wrote an article for Truthstripped about this. It obviously is an interest for you.

It's called, actually, I just had the article pulled up, and now it's gone, so hold on. I think it's Appeal to the Man Beneath the Armor. I think that's the title of it. All right, I got it up again. And the first line is that you have four anon accounts, so maybe some explanation there would be good for everyone to hear.

Why do you feel the need to pseudonymously interact online?

The Purpose of Anonymous Online Accounts

Yeah, so I have had an anon account for a very long time, ever since I was a missionary in Turkey, and that was for security reasons, because we were in a restricted access country, doing missions work and stuff.

And so it kind of started in fun and in play to do stuff like that, with sending correspondence back and forth to the states about what we were doing and stuff like that. And it's just something that kind of stuck with me.

And I have done, I use my anon accounts specifically for righteous reconnaissance, as it were. So I belong to a number of groups that, it just helps me to stay informed about different topics. So I can name them, because they'll never be able to find me, but I'm in several LGBT groups.

I'm in several, what do you call them? Like Wiccan or Christian, Christo-Pagan groups and stuff like that, just to kind of do research on the whole topic. We as a church have been pretty vocal on those two fronts in Kentucky, and needing to be a part of those groups has been helpful for us to just kind of know what's going on, when an event is going to be happening and how they're reacting to us.

Often, you'll hear some of those kinds of things. And so we have learned a lot from doing that. Is there anything more you'd want to hear about me or you seem frozen to me, so I'll just keep talking. Maybe you'll come up here.

So yeah, our anon accounts are, my anon accounts are pretty, pretty clever, but they're for reconnaissance. They're not actually, they're not pushing content. I'm not interacting. There's been a couple of times where I've said something just as an encouragement to continue the conversation, but I haven't had, you know, I'm not trying to, there's not an agenda that I'm pushing with anything, especially the kind of stuff that we've seen here recently with others.

John, I'm not sure what's happened here. We've lost you. So it still says that I'm live here. I can just keep talking about this particular topic. It's one that, you know, I, you know, with the thing that just happened with Josh Spice, you're, you know, you're concerned about how things have, how somebody can get to that particular place.

And I think it's being honest with who you are as a person. So I've just continued to talk, brother. I had a couple little pauses.

I don't know what happened to me.

Wow. Wow. You are a master at this then. That's never happened to me that I can recall on a podcast. I just started hearing really loud noises through my headphones. You paused. And I thought, man, he just said he was infiltrating these LGBT groups and they just shut him down.

So that must've been on my end. I hope this doesn't happen again. But so, so anyway, so I heard, I think, most of what you were saying there about the reason for having these accounts, which I appreciate you sharing.

And it seems like there are some valid reasons then. I mean, are there other reasons that you can see or maybe people in your church would have an anonymous account?

Integrity, Security, and the Limits of Anonymity

For security reasons. I mean, I know several Anon people and they have jobs that they would be in jeopardy if they, if their opinions were known, they would be in jeopardy. And so that's the, I would say the primary reason.

And so whoever their employer is, if they knew the content or the things, especially in our DEI culture that, you know, seems to have kind of gone away and I've gotten some really good intel on how that stuff's gone away.

Even we have a buddy in one of our members works in Toyota. And he says just in the last few months, DEI has just evaporated. And he's not one of the Anons, but those kinds of things are happening. I don't know, man, maybe you've got some sort of a, some sort of an EMT has gone off in your area and you've lost all your internet coverage or whatever.

And now I'm the host of the American Church Band. It's exactly what it looks like. So obviously protecting your family, protecting your income is important. And so people that have an opinion or want to contribute or communicate something in the modern context, they're gonna wanna have some way to do that without jeopardizing their income or jeopardizing that.

I would argue that you don't wanna stay in that position. You wanna get yourself into a place where you're, you can match those two worlds. Who you are putting forward as who you are is truly who you are and you don't fear the repercussions.

So Tanner and myself, we're in that position. We have jobs and we have the security that we have that we don't have to worry about any of those kinds of things because I can say what I wanna say and my congregation's not gonna fire me.

You might have pastors that have opinions and they can't put those opinions out because they're in fear of their congregation. So I can see that, the necessity of that, but I don't think that's an ideal place to be at all for an anon to be duplicitous, I guess it were.

And so these people that are in different businesses where DEI would be an issue, it's just that they're trying to protect their income. Somebody who's duplicitous and having opinions that differ from their online, that's a problem because now it gets into an issue of integrity.

And I think we need to have integrity for this particular, this arena. John has texted me telling me that he's gonna log in with his phone here. And so hopefully we'll have him back any moment. I'm trying to think that there's other reasons that are good.

I mean, obviously if you have malicious intent with your anon account, that's problematic because that's antithetical to being a believer because we shouldn't have those types of thoughts. We should be forthright.

We should let the word of God land. We shouldn't be trying to tear people down or any of those kinds of things. It would be my primary argument. And something that I brought out in this article that I've got up on the board here.

And the whole thrust of that is to be, the man that you're putting forward should match. Even if you have an anon account, you still should have your speech peppered with grace. It should be salt and light.

And salt and light doesn't mean F-bombs and using curse words or the way that we characterize or we do that. And sadly, I think we've seen quite a bit of that. I'm concerned on this, on the anon world, which I may have a lot of people that I respect that are anon and the ones that I know, I know that their actual online anon persona matches their offline persona.

They may say things a little bolder, but they're still, they're not speaking in an unchristlike way, which is, I'm concerned that they're doing that anyways.

You're back. Yeah, I'm back. Can you hear me?

Yeah, I can.

Yeah, that was really weird.

I think an EMT or something's gone off in your area, and you've lost all your internet access.

I don't know.

I had some issues with my computer last week, and I mentioned it on the podcast. And of course, all these computer guys were like, oh, I can help you find a new one. But I didn't have any problems to this extent.

So maybe the anons have found me, but I don't think they'll find my phone. So this should work. I heard what you said as you were talking. I was backstage. I had to log back into the computer to let my phone in.

So now that I'm back, I think you make a good point about a right and a wrong use to use anons, because there does seem to be, and I don't know what the percentage is, but it seems like more anons than I'm comfortable with tend to operate without impunity, and they use that license as an opportunity to tear down people that they don't like, and maybe even in sinful ways, say, like you said, profanity, but also just air.

I mean, there's a term that I won't say, but basically, crap posting, right? They just wanna use it as a journal to put all their complaints about the world, and then you find community with others, maybe even in chat groups that you get invited to, people who share your gripes, share your concerns, but it becomes a complain fest, and I've seen this dynamic, and it just discourages people.

It's not a prudent thing. I don't know, maybe talk about that a little bit, because I am worried for guys who find their quote-unquote encouragement online, but that's the encouragement is what I just described.

Online Grumbling, Community, and What Real Encouragement Looks Like

Yeah, I'm making a big assumption here, but I genuinely think that I know all of the anons that are in our church, and our church is roughly 320 or so people, and I know quite a few of them that have anon accounts, and then there's a lot that have just regular accounts, so assuming that I know everybody in there, I have heard directly from them as they are part of signal chats and different, offline, but it's still, there's a community that's developed where they're maintaining those, that they're discouraged by the way people speak because that's even rougher than what's happening online.

Yeah, I don't know if you're familiar with that, but that's what I'm seeing. What's discouraging, so you get somebody online, you post something, anything goes viral, you'll get 100 retweets of something that happens every once in a while, and then that's when they show up in mass, and then the things they say, and then you click on their profile to go,.

Who's this dude?

And it's like, Christ is king, Boniface, this or that, and you're like, wait a minute, you just said this in my comments, and I'm like, there's some inconsistencies here.

Yeah, the thing about it, and this is kind of an odd thing because we haven't had a situation like this in world history that I can think of. There's not a parallel to it. Obviously, there's espionage, right?

Which is, it's kind of like, that would be the parallel to why using anon account for a good reason is spying, espionage, these are legitimate pursuits in the right context, but not everyone's a spy, right?

Everyone might wanna be, but not everyone's a spy, and to have just the social life itself, like the public square, be swarmed with people that you don't know, that you can't get to know, you have no connection, you don't know what they're connected to, you don't know how they're managing their household, you don't know really a thing.

They could be from another country, they could be a different gender than they're portraying. I don't know that that's ever really happened. The closest thing I can think of is in France, those masquerade parties where you show, but people kind of still know who the people are.

Well, you know if you're male or female, hopefully, you know, by looking.

Right, yeah, you know at least that. This is less than that. And that's one of the things I've wondered is what's the social effect on a broad scale of this when you have so many people operating anonymously, you can't get to know them that way really.

It's very hard to at least. There's so many barriers there, but they can say whatever they want. And so in an environment like that, if you're trying to find your people, quote unquote, it's not going to be based on shared interests or shared region or any of the tangible things that actually bind us together.

It's going to be, we have the same complaints or something like that. That's at least what I'm seeing is people sort of fall into these categories of they have similar political views, but even more than that, they have a similar rambunctious attitude perhaps.

And that's the thing that I think I'm seeing that I'm like, you know, I'm for anonymity, allowing it because of the first reason you said, like the Federalist Papers and those guys use anonymous pseudonyms, but for a good purpose.

And so what do you do as you're a pastor, what do you do since you know guys in your church who are also having non-accounts? If you start seeing someone go in this direction, how do you identify it?

How do you help shepherd someone through that?

Shepherding Anonymous Accounts Toward Real-Life Faithfulness

Yeah, I mean, I also, I'm cautious. I don't want to become that guy that's overly looking over their shoulder. I've had very, I have had very specific situations where people have said certain things and I go to them and I'll screenshot it and I'll send it to them.

I'm like, what was that? And then they'll take it down. I've had that happen multiple times. We've got three anons right now that are taking a break. They're not on. And I think that's helpful for them.

And that's not, that's just, maybe that's generated by me and Tanner and others is we've encouraged people to have a consistent, you know, here's the thing, we want to build and we're pushing the idea of building and building your family and building your work and being a pillar in the church and having an influence in your local community and stuff.

So these are the big pushes that we're having. Well, that's not really accomplished online. There's no real community. It's all faux, it's all, it's not real. And it can go away in a moment. You say the wrong thing in some of these groups and suddenly your, the attention's against you.

And so my challenge to them has just to build real things. Actually work on your marriage, actually work on this, work on that, you know, get out of the company. Let's take your skillset and let's turn that.

Into a business.

So we're very pro-entrepreneurial, you know, here. And so I'm gonna encourage real things that they can have pride in and then it's truly who they are and not something that, having pride in. The fact that you've got 10 ,000 followers on Twitter is just so, it's vapor, it's nothing.

I know, I know.

Yeah, and I think there's a temptation to think that we memed ourselves into the White House, right? That I hear that so much. We memed ourselves into the White House.

We did it.

We're the ones that are producing real change by before it was the left bullying and canceling people. And now we get to use this tool to get our guys into spots that are advantageous and to rip down those that we don't like.

And I'm a little suspicious of that. I don't, I mean, skeptical that that's actually accomplishing a lot. Like we, you can't deny the fact that Elon Musk buying Twitter helped President Donald Trump. Whether it gave him the election, I don't know, but it certainly helped him, right?

But I think of especially a young guy who's starting out, who let's say, doesn't have a long record on social media of his views. And he decides he's gonna do an anon account and then just really air everything.

If that gets doxxed, which that happens at times, then he may be disqualified at a lower stage from ever wielding actual power to love neighbor and to, but if he channels that effort into something like building a business, like you said, or running for local office, or I don't know, something productive in the real world, it seems to me like that's usually more prudent.

And I don't know, I mean, even with the, in the Christian quote unquote nationalist circles, how many guys have run for office? It's something I've been thinking about lately because we have like Dusty Devers, but he's the one name that always comes up.

It's like, oh, we got Dusty Devers. But like, oh my God, that's great. I love Dusty Devers. Dusty Devers was a businessman in his community and people knew him. That's how he got the position he was in.

And that's, I'm convicted of this myself, getting involved in local community, local church. It just seems that's the, if a non-account can serve that, which is how you're using it, my non-account serves my local involvement, it can be good.

But if it's not serving that, then you have to question, okay, what's the purpose then of using it? So one of the things that I got a comment from someone who said that they don't think pastors should have a non-accounts and implied that this was for more immature people, that if you have authority, you shouldn't have an account.

And I countered back. I said, I'd be curious what you think of this, Pastor Doris. I said, actually, I think pastors and people who are more mature, let's say, are probably the prime people who should have a non-account.

Like I would trust them more with that tool because it's a powerful tool. You can ambush than someone who doesn't have wisdom, right? So it actually takes more wisdom, I think, to operate one of those accounts, not less.

I mean, what do you think of that?

Wisdom, Maturity, and the Pastor’s Use of Anon Accounts

Well, we would say that until last week with Josh Bynes and the Sunday Press.

Oh, I know, well, it was, yeah.

It blows it up.

I know, I know. That's kind of why we're having this conversation.

Yeah, I just, yeah, I can see that. But what are they afraid of? Why not have their real account and be who they really are as a pastor would be my pushback to that.

Yeah. Yeah.

Unless, and when you were offline here, I mentioned it, so I'm not sure you heard of it. If you're afraid of your congregation, like your congregation's gonna know your actual true views and you're concerned about that, I could see that for sure.

But our lives should match our words. And the more that our lives and everybody can look and verify that you're who you are, it lands with such greater thud. You know what I mean? It's just, it has so much more impact if it's truly you.

If it's just some Anon who's got just a few followers and he follows a thousand people and who cares what he says?

Yeah.

But it means something if I say something because of my position and my place in the community and people know me. So if I say, hey, this is wrong or this is right or this is good, now people listen. And really, it emboldens the congregation.

And so I'm not, I guess I wouldn't be, I can see a context where you need to do it, but I would argue maybe really evaluate the reason why you would want that as a pastor, because I think you're gonna have greater impact.

With your voice.

Your voice is gonna be louder if it's you saying something.

Yeah, yeah. And I think of all the Proverbs about a good name and how prized that is. You can't really build a good name if you're not using your name, right? You're building an avatar or a profile or some kind of a brand, but there is a difference between that and then having a good name that actually your kids get to inherit and your church gets to benefit from and those kinds of things.

So pour your energy into that, to real tangible things like that. I wanted to get, go ahead.

I was gonna say, I know in my context, we get this on the regular here, just from Snake on the Table, our Twitter accounts and stuff like that. When I say something, I actually, I remember when I'm reminded by my congregation, when they say, hey, you said this and that was really important to me.

It emboldens my church. It equips them. They now know how to deal or handle or talk about a particular topic that they hadn't thought about before. And so that's why I like that I can do that. If a pastor's out there, his congregation doesn't know who he is and that he's done this and so he's not having that outside of the pulpit impact that he should be having on his congregation.

Right, no, that's a really, really good point. And I hadn't thought of that before we started the podcast. I'm gonna get to some questions. So if those who are listening, I know we have a bunch of people streaming.

If you have questions or comments on any of this, please put it in the channel and I will get to them. There's not a lot yet, but I wanted to maybe shift the conversation a little bit to just online ethics and how we interact online in general, whether or not or not.

Christian Speech, Grace, and Online Etiquette

So this, one of the things that I've realized just being in the podcast world is there is this unspoken code of how I should, I guess, carry myself. If someone's a guest on my podcast, for example, it is kind of like they're a guest in my home and I am expected to treat them a certain way, give them some deference, let them talk, hear their thoughts.

And this is something that's developed over time, obviously, as the online world has existed, but I think we're still in development and scripture obviously has to apply to this though. So I don't know if you have thoughts on what are some of the things, I mean, maybe some of the pitfalls too, that people get into operating online that maybe we wouldn't tolerate it.

And like if you met someone at church or met someone in the community or met someone at a conference, should you treat them the same or different as opposed to meeting them in the comment thread, that kind of thing.

I think we're definitely more aggressive online and especially when we don't know people, there's just a natural aggression that comes up and then that's only exacerbated by anonymity. But we as Christians are always to have,.

Our speech is always to be graceful.

It's always to be edifying. That doesn't mean that we aren't salty and we say things that are pointed and they get to the point and they're upsetting, the things that we say, but the words that we're choosing to say, we're not, we're just making sure that they're graceful.

I think about, I know, and he's old and stuff like that, but like Joel Beeky, how is he gonna interact with somebody who's being just salty or whatever? He's still gonna be gracious with him in his response.

I have, if you follow my social media from, I think I opened a Facebook account in 2008 or something like that, that's when I had one. If you follow that, I've tried to be gracious, but there's definitely been times that you get into it with people and you go farther than you should.

And so I think owning that, having a transparency, that's something that I've wanted to do. And maybe this is what you get, I'll give you one big one. This may be real, really salty for your crowd here.

I don't know who follows this, but I don't engage with women online. I just have stopped, it doesn't matter who they are, it's a no-win situation for me to go at it with somebody. Now, if I know the person, like if it's a lady in my congregation, then I will answer those things.

But if it's somebody I don't know, I don't engage in that because even if they ask me a question, and it's not like the Mike Pence thing or anything, it's just a no-win situation. If you argue with a woman online, either you're beating her or you're being beat by her.

And that's a no-win situation.

Right, yeah, both are bad.

Yeah, yeah, I've heard other guys, I think Aidy Robles does that too, if I'm not mistaken. He just won't engage with females. And I think there's different, obviously different online platforms that people conceive of differently.

So Twitter, some people think is a war zone. So you're supposed to go in there with a battle-hardened attitude. But it seems silly to me a little bit. I've had guys argue this. Because usually the appeal is, look what Jesus did in the temple.

Look how Jesus talked to the Pharisees. And I recognize that. But I'm thinking like, brother, I don't, you don't really do that though in real life. That's the thing. Like I, sometimes, you're timid. You don't, you're not trying to take, or not take, but cultivate a situation that would allow you to take leadership in your church or that kind of thing and get into positions where you can be authoritative and speak in those ways.

And maybe that's the difference. And I don't want to sound like, I mean, I guess maybe I'm getting older now, but I'm not, you know, I'm a middle-aged guy. I'm younger middle-aged. I'm not pining for the good old days before the internet.

I actually think the internet can be a good tool. I'm just saying that there does seem to be some social restrictions. You just don't do certain things. You don't air all the things that you think of when you're in public.

Maybe that's a good thing. Maybe that actually helps you have self-control to have that social pressure on you. You know, when you are in a social setting and you don't conceive of it as a war zone, you actually do look at it as a social setting, you tend to operate with more respect.

But if you think as soon as you log in, it's a war zone and you don't have to jump through any of the normal hoops that it would take to be a general, you can play a general, right? And that's, I guess, maybe the other thing that I'm sensing it.

I don't know how to articulate it well, but that the social mores and the hierarchies and ranks in society are somewhat broken down when you go online. And I don't know that that's a good thing either.

Yeah, you can quote or go directly at the Pope right now.

Yeah.

He's got a Twitter account and amazing access that you have. I think Twitter, well, X, it has the combativeness of that. It rewards spice. The spicier you are, you'll get the likes, you'll get it. If you just put something up like a scripture quote.

Or something like that,.

Or some insight from the word of God that you've gotten from your studies and it's beneficial, that is gonna get no responses.

Right.

It doesn't do that. But if you do the exact same post and you put it on Facebook, you'll get all the likes and the hearts and the conversations. It's just, so Facebook rewards intuition and thoughtfulness and meaning.

And Twitter, X, I keep saying Twitter, X, it rewards combat.

It does.

So that's why, I guess that's why it feels more warrior when you go into it.

Right, yeah. Yeah, sometimes I look at conversations on there and I think, man, if we didn't have these online barriers, would we be shooting guns at each other? Would this be an actual war? I mean, it feels like that.

But I do wanna get to some questions and comments. So I'm gonna just check out what we got here. Not a Calvinist. Okay, well, we have someone who's not a Calvinist.

They want people to know this.

It says, and I think this is an anon. This has been a needed as an honest, useful, and oftentimes convicting talk concerning the issue of anons on X. So thank you, not a Calvinist. I really appreciate that.

And I think, I mean, there's so much more I think we could say and maybe we will, but I think we're just scratching the surface. This is such a conversation, a needed conversation, but one that is in development.

Bob from Canada. So we got Bob. You're getting a lot of anons on the account today. Your real name means nothing to those 1 ,000 miles away on the internet judged based on substance. I'd advise my kids to be anon if they ever go online.

Oh, that's an interesting, maybe you talked about this when I was logged off or whatever, but when it comes to children operating online for the protection of children, maybe that, I don't know. I tend to think that I wouldn't want my kids online at all if they have to use an anon.

That's just my gut, but maybe that protects them.

Children, Predators, and the Limits of Online Exposure

Yeah, I mentioned this a couple of, and this maybe gets in a totally different topic, but I find that as a man, that the X, the imagery and the stuff that it gets on the for you there that it gives you, that's where most of my sensuality is provoked in there.

So I've recently got into my settings and I turned off all photos. I don't see any photos. So I will click, if you post something, I'll see that it'll have a tag that there's a photo there and I know it's you, so I'm gonna click it and see what you post, what you had there just immediately pops up.

But I don't think kids should be on X because of that. It's just, there's too much. I don't think they have, it depends on who they are,.

But most of the kids that I know.

Don't have the ability to be on there. So I wouldn't have them on there. I guess he's concerned about predators going after them.

Is that what you mean?

I'm assuming, yeah.

Yeah, which I mean, I get that.

That's interesting because it's gotten better on X, but it does seem like there's, I, every once in a while, I still come across like semi-pornographic material if it's pornographic. And yeah, it's a difficult thing to maneuver.

We have this world and I mean, a lot of parents I see give their kids cell phones because they think, well, I wanna know where you are. I want you to be able to call me at very young ages. And you're giving them though, something that obviously they can take and then use for all kinds of sinful activities, including that.

Let's see what other comments we have. Alex Barry says he literally just blocks all women. So you just, well, that's one way to do it, I guess.

Block all women. So do you see what I mean?

It's a lot worse, especially on X. They're really bad, especially the reform trolls, the ones that troll the reformed world. They're really bad.

Yeah, I don't, is that, I don't know. I'm sort of in that.

I don't know what it is, you know. I watch it go after Web and there's some people that, some ladies are just obsessed after Joel Web.

Oh my gosh.

And then I'm like, what's going on here?

Yeah, it's like they make it their personal job to go after them. And I don't know, it's convicting maybe when someone says that you're in sin and they just wanna get one up on you. I don't know.

I don't know.

Well, Jerry Doris did not say to do that, but if that's what you need to do, block all women.

Okay.

Let's see, Bob, Bob, Bob, Bob again says, I pretty much only troll the Theo bros. So because the bad ideas being promoted from Moscow, the Moscow, Moscow was detrimental to our local church. So, you know, Bob, I don't know who you are, but I would just say, you might wanna let that go.

I'm just saying. I don't know all the particular circumstances of what happened to your church. Maybe it's a bad story, but there's no way to get back at people really. Whatever happened to your church, let's just assume it was really bad, going online and using an Anon to go after it.

Like, I'll give you an example. If there was a story, let's say someone, we'll take it out of the realm of Moscow. Let's just say another group or whatever, some hypothetical, some group goes after you and they're a threat.

They're a threat to other churches because they've done something to your church. The best thing you can do is probably put a little meat on the bones and let people know exactly what happened so that they know what to watch out for.

If you are a nameless, faceless person without much of a following likely because you're an Anon, it may feel good to post about those things and to go after them, but how many people can actually benefit from the experience you had?

They can't even verify the experience. They don't know where it happens. So I guess that's a point I want. I'm not telling you, Bob, to go after anyone, but I'm just saying, if you're using Anon, that's, I don't know that it helps that much.

Just my two cents. Well, I'll wait for some more questions to get in here. Maybe we can keep talking just a little bit about, okay, Bob disagrees. He says his testimony is posted on the channel. Okay, I haven't seen it, so I'd have to see it.

Maybe we can talk a little bit about online etiquette a little bit more too. So treating people the way that you want to be treated, using respectful language, even online, I think it does make you stand out as someone, well, you said the reform people are trolling and so forth, but I think hopefully as a Christian, our speech is peppered with salt or seasoned with salt.