Keith being interviewed on The Regular Man Podcast

Humor, Comedy Influences, and the Origins of the Channel

Oh man, that was funny. All right, we are live. Hello and welcome to the Regular Man Podcast, where we celebrate God's gift of masculinity in the life of the regular man. I'm your host, Steve Cruz, and my guest today is a pastor at Sovereign Grace Family Church in Jacksonville, Florida.

He's a podcaster, and he's a pretty funny guy. He also does a pretty good job of explaining some pretty difficult themes in theological terms and Orthodox teaching. Please welcome the Amillennius King, Keith Foskey,.

My man. Thanks for coming on. Thanks, Steve. I appreciate you having me on, sir. Looking forward.

To our conversation. Man, I'm excited. We were just talking right before we went live, and that's why I look like a dork when I'm smiling and laughing while we're going live. We were both born in 1980, and the world just couldn't keep us down, man.

Two big guys, the world just blew.

Up with Mount St. Helens. Yeah, when you said that, Mount St. Helens, baby, I've mentioned many times that I was born in the same year Mount St. Helens erupted, but I've never heard the term Mount St. Helens, baby, and I was like, yeah, that's now.

That's a new thing. I'm going to start using that. That's us now. That's us. That's right. Me and Steve conquering the world.

Oh, Steve and Keith, Mount St. Helens can't keep us down, man. So we're scheduled for about an hour ish. Magulay, maybe not. Totally flexible in your schedule. And this is, I'm actually really super excited to talk to you about some of this stuff today because I've watched you for a little while and man, you crack me up sometimes.

Have you ever seen that? Have you ever seen Bat Dad on YouTube? Dude, he just cracks me up. I think, man, out of everything I've seen on YouTube, I think, man, you could so pull that off if you did like a Christian Bat Dad.

Well, it's funny that you say that because guys like that were the inspiration for, you know, what we do with the comedy. There's people out there that I learned a lot from. Bat Dad was just funny. And I was like, he's doing short videos.

They're funny. And I kind of took that idea and ran with it. But it was guys like Matt Mitchell, who has a channel who's really funny. Guys like, there used to be a channel called Cracked. It's still out there, but it used to be really well done.

And it had a lot of funny stuff on it. And so, you know, there's nothing new under the sun. Nothing really original. You know, people take ideas and then they run with them and make them their own. And that's what we've done.

Yeah. But you've Christianized it. I like it, man. I think you could take that and go another hundred miles with it. That's great. Yeah. So I really appreciate the humor that you put on, especially with some of the denominational videos.

You know, you poke fun at everybody. You're you, you, you do a fair job of capturing kind of some of the things that are like, yeah.

Denominational Humor and Picking on the United Methodists

The only ones who would probably say I'm not very fair is maybe the United Methodists, because I'm a little harder on them. But as a Calvinist, I feel like we have like a historic, like, like a historic animosity that I'm sort of digging into.

And they have gone, you know, the United Methodists have gone that direction into the really woke, crazy, you know, nonsense. And so I pick on them probably harder than anyone else. In fact, my my one of my most, one of my largest videos was on TikTok and it was a six second video.

Only was the six second video is me in a pink polo shirt waving at the camera. And it said the United Methodist Church waves, waves goodbye to Christianity. And it got 250 ,000 views like in like two days, like it just shot.

And I was like, oh goodness, this is, there's no reason why that should happen. But people thought it was either people thought it was funny or they hated it. Either way they spread it around. Yeah. Or it's just so true.

It's funny. Yeah. Yeah. And that's what a lot of people saw. It's.

Just, it's too, it's too true. Yeah. Yeah. It's pretty, it's, it's fairly unique what you do. And I appreciate it. It makes me laugh. What, but I, I gotta ask what your favorite video is.

My favorite of my videos. Yeah. Yeah. That that's a great question. Um, if, if I had to go by just like, you know, the, like what was my favorite one to make maybe would be the nice, would be the best one.

And, and that, that was the, the, when I went to the arc, when I was at the arc museum with Greg Moore from dead men walking podcast, and he filmed it. Well, actually his friend was there and his friend filmed it while I was doing the parts.

And Greg was in the background commenting on the jokes while I was doing it. So there's an entire. Like second video that I made of the making of the arc video. So that one was the most fun. People were walking by watching me change my shirt going, what is the, what is he doing?

And like, I mean, I, I never took my shirt off. I had an undershirt on like, yeah, I was never like half nude or anything, but, but I would, I would take one shirt off, throw another shirt on over the undershirt and I would do the part for the Methodist or I'd do the part for this.

And that was just so much fun. And Ken Ham saw that video and liked it. So I can, I can say I have Ken Ham's, you know, at least laugh out of it. So that was great. Ken Ham's approval seal of approval.

Yeah. Which I don't think I was supposed to film on the, on the art property anyway. Like, like I think there's a rule and, and I, the fact that he saw it and liked it meant that I was okay. Cause he, he makes the rules.

So, you know, Ken Ham is, he is the rule.

So it's true. I, I do, I do like answers in Genesis stuff. Yeah. I think it's, it's, it's a good balance of academic and common sense stuff that I think is important.

Oh yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Periodically through our podcast, we're going to have some,.

Some comments come up and the ones that are appropriate, I'll pull up and the ones that aren't, aren't so much, I'll, I'll just ignore. And if you guys who are watching live have some questions, feel free to put them in the chat.

Maybe I'll, maybe I'll ask. Now you, you had a.

Question. I'm just going to pull it up real quick. I just wanted to make sure that we.

Were doing this, not too long ago, but before we went live. My guy Greg Moore in Dead Man Walking, you, you visited him, you've been on his show and the fellows at Eschatology matters two or.

Three times. Right. Oh yeah. Well, Greg, Greg was hugely helpful with me when I met him two years ago at the, um, what was the name of the conference? It was from shadows to substance was the name of the conference.

It was in Tullahoma, Tennessee with Jeffrey Rice. This, this next year will be my third year going. I'm preaching again this year. Um, and, uh, I'm preaching on, um, uh, we're doing the topic of sanctification and I'm dealing with, from parenting perspective, uh, but the, the, I met Greg at the original, the first one, we hit it off immediately.

We're both podcasters. We're both guys who love comedy. And so he had me on a show. We talked about comedy. I did my Mount Rushmore of comedy. Who do I think are the funniest guys? And I gave him my four, you know, top comedians.

And we talked, had a great conversation about that. Uh, but then we just, we, we made this joke about me being the Harbor Freight, Doug Wilson. And he was, he was supposed to be the Harbor Freight, Jeff Durbin.

And so he was the Harbor Freight, Jeff Durbin. I was a Harbor Freight, Doug Wilson. Well, that took off and that became funny. And like a lot of people really loved it. And I ended up getting a picture with Doug Wilson in my Harbor Freight shirt, which was great.

I saw that.

That's awesome.

And that was at fight laughs last year. Uh, but then the guys that eschatology matters, Brandon at eschatology matters and Josh is great too. Um, but Brandon has just been such a huge supporter and he does stuff with me all the time.

He's the one who promoted my debate with, um, Spencer Smith. That really was, that was the one where we dressed up as wrestlers and we debated. That was funny. And, and, um, I try to bring, I try to bring some fun to the debates that I do.

And, uh, he was like macho man.

Right.

And you were the, yeah, he was macho man. And I was King Jerry Lawler. I don't know if you remember Jerry Lawler from back in the day. He was the king. Uh, and so, uh, but it was just funny and we had a great, I actually tried to reach out to Jerry Lawler.

Uh, during that, cause I was going to try to get him to make a promo video for me. I was going to ask him if he would do that, but I never was able to get past like the first steps of, of actually reaching him, it's hard to get hard.

I don't know how some people do it. You, maybe you could teach me, but like getting interviews and stuff, like I have the hardest time getting connected to people and, um, and it's just, I don't know, people ask, you know, people ask me sometimes, how do you get interviews accidentally most of the time?

Like I've run into somebody, I'm like, Hey, can I have your number? I was like, I'm, I'm just the worst. I'm not, I'm not a good at, I'm not good at marketing myself. I guess.

Yeah.

I think largely the people that I've interviewed, like I've had some fairly, you know, bigger names in the Christian circle on here. And I think sometimes they just pity me.

They're like, Oh, you're so cute. Poor guy is poor guy.

Doesn't know you're a Mount St.

Helen's baby.

That's what it is. They know that you're secretly a rock star. You were born in the right year. So that's what it is.

Yeah. Yeah.

I've had some, I've had some pretty rude responses from people. Um, and I've had one that kind of threw me back. It was like, uh, maybe I shouldn't say it. I don't care. Uh, I tried to interview, I wanted to interview Kurt angle.

Right.

So I sent him a email and, um, him and his agent, uh, I guess he has an agent. I don't know. And, uh, I got a response. He's like, you can talk to you for like $2 ,500 a half hour.

And I was like, bro, 45, $45 or $4 ,500, $2 ,500, $2 ,500.

Yeah, it was crazy.

I was like, all right, no, I'll pretend to be Kurt angle and we'll just do the audio.

That's amazing.

That is, uh, I had one of the guys who, um, cause I tried to do like a, um, like there's a lot of people in the red pill nonsense, you know, area.

And I still don't understand the colors. I don't understand what.

Watch matrix once and then you'll be good. And, uh, uh, so, and there's largely very, very anti God, you know, they're just not, they're not, there's nothing righteous about what they do. Uh, and then there's a whole lot of pastors online who just a lot of, you know, transubstantiation and they use a lot of very important, but, um, theological terms that people just come on, man, I'm just gonna tune you off if you don't speak my language, you know?

And there's not, there's not a lot of stuff in the middle and there's some, uh, about masculinity, but a lot of it's just red pill stuff and I'm not Christian at all. Uh, and so I re appreciate people like Michael Foster, uh, and a couple other guys who are, you know, the guys in Ogden do a great job.

The guys in Moscow do a great job of, of really embracing, uh, a Christian masculinity kind of flavor, uh, for what they do. Um, but there isn't just like a regular dude, like, so that's why I started what I'm doing just to talk to regular guys about regular dude stuff that wasn't gay.

You know, it was, it was, you know, it's not effeminate is what I mean.

Yeah.

Just guy stuff. Uh, so I reached out to a couple other guys who were, you know, not necessarily one camp or the other. Uh, and even their responses were like, I only, uh, do guest appearances on well-established podcasters.

I'm like, dude, you guys are jerks. What's wrong with you? So anyway, so I'm like, yeah, I'll talk, dude, I'll talk to my dog on here. I'll talk to my neighbor. I don't care. I'll talk to anybody who I find interesting.

I just want to talk to him. I think people are interesting.

Yeah.

It's funny. I've, I've had a few, uh, I've had a few turndowns, nothing I would say was rude. Like most of the people who've turned me down. I've just, it's just been a time issue. Like they just did that.

And I respect that. Like they just didn't have the time to do it and they were very gracious about it. Um, but I did have one guy, uh, who reached out to me, um, who wanted, he wanted me to do a debate on, on his show.

No, I'm sorry. He wanted to, he wanted me to host a debate on my show. Um, but, but it was between him and another guy and he wanted me to host it. And I, and I, and I've done that. I've hosted debates where I was the moderator and I bring two guys on and let them debate.

But it was a paid thing. He had paid this guy to, uh, to debate him. Like, like, like he had offered this guy a thousand dollars to come and debate. And I, I said, I don't do that. One of the things I made a rule a long time ago is that I would never pay for a guest.

And that way, that way I, I don't have to ever, if somebody ever says, well, I'll come on your show, but it's 40, you know, $2 ,500, I can just say, well, that just breaks a rule that I don't, I don't, I don't go against that rule.

And, um, because I, I consider what I do somewhat of a news outlet, you know, kind of like it's, this is a way I'm getting things and I don't think you should pay for news guests, you know? So I see it as sort of, it's not, it's not journalism.

I talked to Meg Bash in two weeks ago and I, and I was, you know, the first thing I said to her was I'm not a journalist, I'm a pastor, but at the same time we are, you and I both doing this, we are, we are in the media of the modern journalists.

You know, we're, we're speaking to the world in a way that's unique to our time. Think about this. And I know this is not what we were going to talk about today, but just thinking about the medium of, of YouTube, uh, YouTube podcasting and, and, and, and Spotify and all those things.

When my, when my dad was a kid, there was like one guy like Walter Cronkite, like that was like, everybody heard the news that way. And then when I was a kid, you and I, when we were a kid, there were your, your local news stations.

And then you had like your national news, 60 minutes, that kind of stuff.

Right.

Um, and then we got the 24 hour news cycle, which began, you know, right around the turn of the century. And there was this, you know, Fox news and there was CNN and there was all these 24 hour news networks and everybody was flooded with information, but it was all partisan and it was all difficult to like, if you were a Fox news person or you were an MSNBC person, right, you were that.

And now everybody who's got an internet connection can be a journalist. They can be a, and I've seen, I've seen guys in their basements interviewing Elon Musk, right? Like, like how did they get that interview?

They got it because they were, they were willing to put themselves out there.

Right.

They were willing to do that. And I'm like, man, there's a powerful medium here. I interviewed, have you ever heard of a man named a Lieutenant Colonel Dave Grossman? Have you ever heard of him?

No, doesn't ring a bell.

Lieutenant Colonel Dave Grossman is, um, former army Ranger and currently does, uh, motivational speaking for police. Uh, he does training for military and things like that on the subject of surviving, uh, uh, lethal encounters.

He's got a book that's called on combat and another book that's called on killing. His whole thing is teaching people how to survive deadly encounters.

Right.

And he is like, he's an amazing man, but he's also a Christian. I met him years ago. I got to go to his seminar. I got to have lunch with him. He's an amazing man. We were, we, to this day, I think if I called him, he'd pick up the phone.

He, we just, we really hit it off. And he came on my show. And like I said, my show, I wasn't doing a whole lot. I was just interviewing whoever I could. And I was so grateful that he came on, but he said on my show, he said, Keith, what you're doing and what guys like you are doing guys like you, Steve and other people, he says, what you're doing is the next wave of journalism.

You guys, this is the kind of stuff that, that is getting facts and information into people's ears that is so unique and new that didn't exist when he was a kid. So he was really encouraging. And I was very thankful to have that conversation with him and for him to encourage me to continue doing this.

So, yeah.

Megan Basham, Church Soup, and the Media Landscape

Yeah, that's true. How was your, how was your interview with Megan?

I just got her book.

I just cracked it. I just started reading like two pages. I had to go to bed. Uh, but I'm excited to read it because we're talking a little earlier. I'm very happy that someone wrote something that's actually exposing some of the nonsense that's been happening in big evangelical circles everywhere.

How was she on the, on the interview? I enjoyed the interview you had with her.

Man, she's great. Uh, I, I, I'm going to tip my hand here. I, um, I read the book or she sent me the book before the interview. So I had the opportunity to have a pre-read and, um, I was, I was encouraged by a lot of what it said.

You know, I thought, I thought a lot of what she said had a lot of insightfulness to it. There was a lot of truth to it. Um, I, I, I knew though, I knew that once it hit, there was going to be an immediate, like people were going to be defending their positions and people were going to be circling the wagons.

And that's what's happened. And, and I want to drop a, I'm going to drop a quick plug for something. I'm I'm working on my latest episode of church soup, which is my news program. I do a once a month news program where I just, where I just make fun of the news and it's usually church related.

And I've got a pretty good Megan Basham section that I'm going to talk about her and her interaction with Gavin Ortlund. So anybody who watches my program or watches my channel, you're going to want to watch that because, uh, I'm going to, I'm going to make a, a few little digs at what's going on because it's, it's really, it's, it's not funny, but it's, it's almost a parody of itself.

What's happened with all this.

It definitely deserves a lot of conversation. Is, did you put a portion of that at the beginning of your, of your interview that I just listened to?

Yeah, that's good. You had, well, that's not, that's not what's going on church soup. That was a skit. She and I filmed that skit for that interview. We, we filmed the interview and right before we ended, we went for an hour right before we ended.

I said, Megan, can I ask you for a favor? And she said, sure. And, um, I said, would you be willing to give me five minutes to change my shirt and come back and just argue with you as if I'm big Eva and she goes, Oh yes, I want you to do that.

So I went and put on my big Eve outfit, which I use for my videos. I sat down and we didn't script it. I just started and I laid into her and she fought back and it was so funny and I loved it and I, and man, she's just, she's just a real, she's real funny lady.

And so I enjoyed that a lot. That was fun.

That was great, man.

And don't, don't, don't feel bad about going off, off of our, uh, outline, man. I, this is where we go, where the conversation leads, man. This is, this is why we talk that you've had, um, some of those guest appearances like we were talking about, uh, and they, they, man, not just on your show, but on their shows, like there are some very, there's, there are definitely a lot of $5 words, uh, that involve eschatology, uh, that are, that are thrown around there.

And a lot of people, um, a lot of people don't know, um, much about the eschatology or even the, what the term means, right? The eschatology simply means the study of the end times, right? In the end time, specifically to what Christians believe, um, and the, the, the Lord's, um, return and the cat, the gathering of, of believers together.

Uh, would you, would you explain just a real simple explanation of the three different kinds of segments of, of views on eschatology pre millennial, pre millennialism, post millennialism, and Amalem Amalem.

Sure. Um, the, the positions that you're talking about pre post and amillennialism all come from revelation chapter 20 verses one to 10, where there is a description of Satan being bound and put into a pit for a thousand years.

And, um, the question that theologians wrestle with is whether or not that event is something that is going to happen after Christ returns, or if that event is something that has already happened. And that's the, that's the distinction.

There's actually, there are three positions, but they're really only two. And I like to simplify things. I like to really simplify it. You're either a post-millennialist or you're a pre-millennialist.

Amillennialist, which is what I am, fall into the post-millennial category, meaning Christ will return after post the millennium, right after this thousand years where Satan is bound. So the, the belief of the post-millennialist is that Satan is bound for a thousand years and then Christ will return.

Now the, the post-millennialist does have to believe that that thousand years is not literal, that there's not a literal 1 ,000 years. And then on thousand one day, 1 ,001, he he's released, but it represents a long period of time.

And we know that within the Bible, that is the case. Um, you know, the God owns the cattle on a thousand Hills, but not a thousand and one, you know, a day is, is a thousand years, but not a thousand and one, right?

Like I said, so like a thousand represents a long time. So for the post-millennialist and the amillennialist, we say that the thousand years represents a long period of time where Satan is bound and Christ is ruling.

Now the premillennialist says Christ returns, and then that thousand years begins, and they typically take a much more literal approach saying that that thousand years is a thousand years. Christ returns, he binds Satan, Satan is bound for a thousand years and Christ rules on this earth for a thousand years while Satan is bound at the end of which Satan is released for a season.

And there's a war and that war ends with the final battle being won by Christ. And then the eternal state begins.

And so pretty much the left behind series.

Yes.

Very similar. Uh, but left behind is a, is a specific flavor of dis of premillennialism. There are premillennialists who don't hold to the left behind view. So there's some distinctions there, and this is where it would be historic.

Premill?

Yep.

Uh, and it's called historic because some of the early church fathers held to that position that there would be a thousand year millennium that came after, or a thousand year kingdom, a millennial kingdom that came after the return of Christ.

Um, and so that's the, that's the premillennial view. And a lot of people hold to that because they hold to what they consider to be a literal understanding of that text. Um, but, uh, the amillennial position, which is the position that I hold, see that text as being a representative of the church age, the age between what we call the two Advents or the Advents, meaning the, the, the coming of Christ.

Christ came once we call that the first Advent. And I don't know if your church does this, but at Christmas time, many churches celebrate Advent because that's Christ's first coming. And the second Advent is his second coming.

And so we call the, the church age, the inter-Advental period, the period between the first coming and the second coming of Christ. And so that period is what is believed to be the millennium where Satan is bound, not completely, not fully, not in a way that he is unable to do anything, but he's bound specifically from deceiving the nations.

That's what the text says. And how is he not able to, yep. He's not able to deceive the nations in that he cannot keep them from believing the gospel. Satan is bound by the gospel. When Jesus sent out the 70 and he, and he said, go out and preach the gospel.

And they came back. Jesus said, I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven. At the, at the preaching of the gospel, you were preaching the gospel and Satan fell like lightning from heaven. Jesus told a story.

He said there was, he said, or he was giving a parable when he was talking to the, to the Jewish leaders. He said, you cannot enter a strong man's house unless you first bind the strong man. Well, the strong man in that context is Satan.

You go back and read that text. So Jesus's argument was that his coming bound the strong men, he bound Satan. So that's what the pre-millennial, or I'm sorry, the, the, the amillennialists and the post-millennialists believe.

They believe Satan is currently under the binding of the gospel. Now we, we do believe that there will come a day where he's released. Some believe it's already happened and that's why there's so much craziness in the world right now.

I don't necessarily hold to that position, but that's what some people would say he's, he's been released and that's why there's, you know, drag queen story hour and all that stuff, but, um, so I understand when people look around and see all the craziness, how can Satan be bound and it be all crazy, but that's, that's the two different views.

And, and here's, here's the great part, Steve, is that whichever view you take, it's, it's not as if you're not a Christian, if you hold to one view or the other, so my dispensational brothers, my historic pre-mill brothers are my brothers, Michael, Michael Schultz is one of the, one of the great preachers of today, I love him to death.

He and I are great friends and he's historic pre-mill and he and I, we, he and I have wonderful fellowship together. And, uh, you know, there are things I think he's wrong about. There are things he thinks I'm wrong about, but we both love the same Jesus and we, and we preach the same gospel.

So it's not as if it's a gospel issue.

Dispensationalism, the Rapture, and Revelation 20

Yeah.

I appreciate that. And the, um, I think there's a, the major distinction between, uh, a lot of our, our outlook on eschatology on the end times really, I think, uh, really comes into play once you start looking at dispensationalism, uh, once you start looking at there's a pre-tribulation rapture and, um, you know, we're going to be whisked away before it gets bad and who's flying the plane, oh no, a pile of pants, what's going to happen.

And, and it, you know, to me, it always seemed really, really silly because when you, again, like, uh, like many other people who have a true, a sincere, a desire to understand what scripture says, I think oftentimes people will go to their elders or their deacons, their pastors and say, could you explain this to me, uh, and if they have to go from one book to another book, to another book, to another book, all just to explain one teaching.

It, it, it doesn't, it, to me, that doesn't make any sense. When you read scripture for what it says at face value, then read it for what it says at face value. If you want to get deeper into the theological terms and into the Hebrew or the Greek or the Aramaic, that's cool.

That's fine. There's, there's always room for that. Um, but if you're going to preach a topical sermon, something on a topic of something, and you're going back and forth between different books, I just don't believe you.

I just don't think that you have enough credit, uh, under what you're teaching somebody. Uh, and I, I see that as a fatal flaw with dispensation, one of many in, in my opinion, with dispensationalism, uh, you can't teach me the doctrine just by holding to the gospel, even just one genre, right?

One, just the gospel, Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, or, uh, a narrative or the epistles or something like that. You have to go back and forth and take things out of context and say, but wait a minute, that, but that was Paul talking to Thessalonica.

And now you're going to the book of revelation written by John, the apostle John on Patmos, and then you're going back, none of it makes sense to me. Uh, and then if you get into the history of where dispensationalism starts, you're like John, John Nelson Darby.

And you're like, come on, come on. So at least with historic premillennialism, I understand. Okay. Well, well this, you can, you can understand kind of, you're going to go through some bad times and whether you call it the great tribulation or many great tribulations or however you slice that actual, um, uh, translation issue, the, the fact is tribulation has never stopped for the church.

It's never stopped throughout history. It's just changed geographic location sometimes right now, because I think because our country had been founded by Christian people, uh, on Christian principles, um, maybe not, not so much today, but at least historically, uh, they were Christians seeking to worship God.

And that was the purpose and the pretense for this nation. I think God blessed this nation or that and spared us a lot of, a lot of persecution that other countries have gone through, um, that we've been spared, spared from, uh, and the more we turn our back from God, the, I think the more we're going to see pressure right now, it's not necessarily persecution, uh, but if we continue down this left road of weirdoism, uh, I think we're going to see a lot of persecution in the days to come, regardless of where we're at in this, uh, country or in this, uh, world.

Um, this country not excluded. Uh, so this dispensationalism really is a very, very new, um, teaching. Uh, it's at least all millennial, post-millennial kind of newer. Um, but historic primal has been around since the first century.

Yeah.

And, and the, um, the position of, like you just said, the pre-millennial position is, is, does have an ancient pedigree and it does make sense how people would arrive at that conclusion, reading revelation as if it is historical narrative and just reading it from one story to the next.

It does seem like Jesus returns in chapter 19 and then goes into a millennial kingdom in chapter 20. Uh, the issue though, is when we read revelation, I don't believe it's chronological. I believe it's recapitulatory.

I think there's, that's a, that's part of how I, I think it's to be understood because we see that all throughout Hebrew prophetic literature.

Uh, what's that? Do you split the book in half then? Is it a retelling of the first half?

No, I think there's multiple retellings. I think that there's multiple times where judgment is mentioned. I think there's multiple times. Like for instance, the, the term, the battle is used three times.

It's used in chapter 16. It's used in chapter 19 and it's used in chapter 20. And I believe that those three times are all referencing the one final battle, but there it's being retold. The story is being retold.

So, uh, I would probably follow along the same lines as Greg Beal and his commentary regarding the, the recapitulation, uh, in, in the text. So, um, but, but that's, like I said, my only point is to say, I understand how people become premillennial that, that, you know, if, if you just read it chronologically and that's what it seems to say, that's why I don't get offended by people who are premillennial.

I just don't, I don't understand it that way. I see it a different way. Uh, but I think you're right about dispensational premillennialism. Dispensationalism introduces an entirely, uh, different, uh, hermeneutical lens through which to see the text.

And, and, and, and, and it say, uh, the, the, the lens is the lens of seeing one, a distinction between Israel and the church that is, that is a wide distinction rather than just a small distinction and seeing a distinction between, um, the, the, the age of the church and the age of the millennium as being that's our, this is, this is where the promises of Israel are going to be fulfilled is in that millennium.

And, and I believe the promises of Israel fulfilled in Christ. And so that's the, that's a huge issue for me is when I think of the promises that were made to Israel, I see those promises fulfilled in the Lord Jesus Christ and his first coming and, and in his second coming, ultimately, uh, where we will receive the new heaven and the new earth, the final promise of that city that Abraham looked forward to that is built without hands.