Keith being interviewed on The Regular Man Podcast

Oh man, that was funny. All right, we are live.

Hello and welcome to the Regular Man Podcast where we celebrate God's gift of masculinity in the life of the regular man. I'm your host,

Steve Cruz, and my guest today is a pastor at Sovereign Grace Family Church in Jacksonville, Florida.

He's a podcaster and he's a pretty funny guy. He also does a pretty good job of explaining some pretty difficult themes in theological terms and Orthodox teaching.

Please welcome the Amillennius King, Keith Foskey, my man, thanks for coming on.

Thanks, Steve, I appreciate you having me on, sir. Looking forward to our conversation. Man, I'm excited. We were just talking right before we went live and that's why

I look like a dork when I'm smiling, laughing while we're going live.

We were both born in 1980 and the world just couldn't keep us down, man.

Two big guys, the world just blew up with Mount St. Helens. Yeah, when you said that,

Mount St. Helens, baby, I've mentioned many times that I was born in the same year Mount St. Helens erupted, but I've never heard the term

Mount St. Helens, baby. And I was like, yeah, that's now, that's a new thing. I'm gonna start using that.

Well, that's us now. Yeah, that's us, that's right. Me and Steve, conquering the world. Steve and Keith, Mount St.

Helens. Can't keep us down, man. So we're scheduled for about an hour -ish, Magulay, maybe not, totally flexible in your schedule.

And this is, I'm actually really super excited to talk to you about some of this stuff today because I've watched you for a little while and man, you crack me up sometimes.

Have you ever seen that, have you ever seen Bat -Dad on YouTube? Yes, I love, dude, dude, just cracks me up.

Yeah, he's fun. Yes. I think, man, out of everything

I've seen on YouTube, I think, man, you could so pull that off if you did like a Christian Bat -Dad. Well, it's funny that you say that because guys like that were the inspiration for what we do with the comedy.

There's people out there that I learned a lot from. Bat -Dad was just funny and I was like, he's doing short videos, they're funny and I kind of took that idea and ran with it.

But it was guys like Matt Mitchell who has a channel who's really funny, guys like, there used to be a channel called

Cracked. It's still out there, but it used to be really well done and it had a lot of funny stuff on it.

And so, there's nothing new under the sun, nothing really original. People take ideas and then they run with them and make them their own and that's what we've done.

Yeah, but you've Christianized it and I like it, man. I think you could take that and go another hundred miles with it.

That's great. Yep. So, I really appreciate the humor that you put on, especially with some of the denominational videos.

You poke fun at everybody, you're pretty fair in front of everybody.

And I like the - I try, yeah. You do a fair job of capturing kind of some of the things that are like, yeah.

We're a little out of time about that. The only ones who would probably say I'm not very fair is maybe the United Methodists because I'm a little harder on them.

But as a Calvinist, I feel like we have like a historic, like a historic animosity that I'm sort of digging into and they have gone, the

United Methodists have gone that direction into the really woke, crazy nonsense.

And so I pick on them probably harder than anyone else. In fact, one of my largest videos was on TikTok and it was a six second video.

Only was the six second video is me in a pink polo shirt waving at the camera. And it said, the

United Methodist Church waves goodbye to Christianity. And it got 250 ,000 views like in like two days.

It just shot. And I was like, oh goodness, this is, there's no reason why that should happen.

But people thought it was, either people thought it was funny or they hated it. Either way, they spread it around. Yeah, or it's just so true.

It's funny. Yeah, yeah. And that's what a lot of people saw. It's just, it's too true. Yeah. Yeah, it's fairly unique, what you do.

And I appreciate it. It makes me laugh. But I got to ask what your favorite video is.

My favorite of my videos? Yeah, yeah. That's a great question. If I had to go by just like, you know, the like, what was my favorite one to make?

Maybe would be the nice, would be the best one. And that was the, when I went to the

Ark, when I was at the Ark Museum with Greg Moore from Dead Men Walking Podcast and he filmed it.

Well, actually his friend was there and his friend filmed it while I was doing the parts.

And Greg was in the background commenting on the jokes while I was doing it. So there's an entire like second video that I made of the making of the

Ark video. Oh, great. So that one was the most fun. People were walking by, watching me change my shirt, going, what is the, what is he doing?

And like, I mean, I never took my shirt off. I had an undershirt on. I'm like, yeah, I was never like half nude or anything, but I would take one shirt off, throw another shirt on over the undershirt and I would do the part for the

Methodist or I'd do the part for this. And that was just so much fun. And Ken Ham saw that video and liked it.

So I can say I have Ken Ham's, you know, at least laugh out of it. So that was great.

Ken Ham's approval, seal of approval. Yeah, which I don't think I was supposed to film on the

Ark property anyway. Like I think there's a rule. And the fact that he saw it and liked it meant that I was okay.

Cause he makes the rules. So, you know, Ken Ham, he is the rule. So that's true.

I do like Answers in Genesis stuff. Yeah. I think it's a good balance of academic and common sense stuff that I think is important.

Oh yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Periodically through our podcast, we're going to have some comments come up and the ones that are appropriate,

I'll pull up. And the ones that aren't so much, I'll just ignore. And if you guys who are watching live have some questions, feel free.

Put them in the chat. Maybe I'll ask. Now you had a couple of guest appearances.

We're again, talking before we went live. My guy, Greg Moore in Dead Man Walking.

You visited him. You've been on his show and the fellows at Eschatology Matters two or three times, right?

Oh yeah. Well, Greg was hugely helpful with me when

I met him two years ago at the, what was the name of the conference?

It was from Shadows to Substance was the name of the conference. It was in Tullahoma, Tennessee with Jeffrey Rice. This next year will be my third year going.

I'm preaching again this year and I'm preaching on, we're doing the topic of sanctification and I'm dealing from parenting perspective.

But the, I met Greg at the original, the first one, we hit it off immediately.

We're both podcasters. We're both guys who love comedy. And so he had me on his show. We talked about comedy.

I did my Mount Rushmore of comedy. Who do I think are the funniest guys? And I gave him my four top comedians and we had a great conversation about that.

But then we just, we made this joke about me being the Harbor Freight, Doug Wilson.

And he was supposed to be the Harbor Freight, Jeff Durbin. And so he was the

Harbor Freight, Jeff Durbin. I was a Harbor Freight, Doug Wilson. Well, that took off and that became funny and like a lot of people really loved it.

And I ended up getting a picture with Doug Wilson in my Harbor Freight shirt, which was great. I saw that. That's awesome. And that was at Fight Left East last year.

But then the guys at Eschatology Matters, Brandon at Eschatology Matters and Josh is great too.

But Brandon has just been such a huge supporter and he does stuff with me all the time. He's the one who promoted my debate with Spencer Smith.

That really was, that was the one where we dressed up as wrestlers and we debated. That was funny. And I try to bring some fun to the debates that I do.

And - He was like macho man, right? And you were the king. Yeah, he was macho man and I was

King Jerry Lawler. I don't know if you remember Jerry Lawler from back in the day. I do. He was the king. And so, but it was just funny.

And we had a great, I actually tried to reach out to Jerry Lawler during that. Cause I was going to try to get him to make a promo video for me.

I was going to ask him if he would do that. That'd be so cool. But I never was able to get past like the first steps of actually reaching him.

It's hard to get, I don't know how some people do it. Maybe you could teach me, but like getting interviews and stuff, like I have the hardest time getting connected to people.

And it's just, I don't know, people ask me sometimes, how do you get interviews?

Accidentally, most of the time, like I run into somebody, I'm like, hey, can I have your number? It's like, I'm just the worst.

I'm not good at marketing myself, I guess. Yeah, I think largely the people that I've interviewed, like I've had some fairly bigger names in the

Christian circle on here. And I think sometimes they just pity me. They're like, oh, you're so cute.

This poor guy, this poor guy doesn't know what he's doing. No, they know you're a Mount St. Helens baby. That's what it is. They know that you're secretly a rock star.

You were born in the right year. So that's what it is. Yeah, I've had some pretty rude responses from people and I've had one that kind of threw me back.

It was like, maybe I shouldn't say it, I don't care. I tried to interview, I wanted to interview

Kurt Engel, right? And so I sent him a email and him and his agent,

I guess he has an agent, I don't know. And I got a response. He's like, you can talk to you for like $2 ,500 a half hour.

And I was like, bro. $4 ,500 or $4 ,500? $2 ,500 a half hour.

$2 ,500? Yeah, it was crazy. I was like, all right, no,

I'll pretend to be Kurt Engel. And we'll just do the audio. That's amazing.

That is - I had one of the guys who, cause I try to do like a, there's a lot of people in the red pill nonsense area.

I still don't understand the colors. I don't understand what - Yeah, I know, red pill, blue pill. Just watch Matrix once and then you'll be good.

Okay, gotcha. And so, and there's largely very, very anti -God.

They're just not, there's nothing righteous about what they do. And then there's a whole lot of pastors online who just a lot of hypostatic union and eschatology and transubstantiation.

And they use a lot of very important, but theological terms that people just, come on, man,

I'm just gonna tune you off if you don't speak my language. And there's not a lot of stuff in the middle. And there's some about masculinity, but a lot of it's just red pill stuff and I'm not

Christian at all. And so I re -appreciate people like Michael Foster and a couple other guys who are, the guys in Ogden do a great job.

The guys in Moscow do a great job of really embracing a Christian masculinity kind of flavor for what they do.

But there isn't just like a regular dude. So that's why I started what

I'm doing. Just to talk to the regular guys about regular dude stuff that wasn't gay.

It's not effeminate is what I mean. Just guy stuff. So I reached out to a couple other guys who were, not necessarily one camp or the other.

And even their responses were like, I only do guest appearances on well -established podcasters.

I'm like, dude, you guys are jerks. What's wrong with you?

So anyway, so I'm like, yeah, I'll talk, dude, I'll talk to my dog on here. I'll talk to my neighbor. I don't care. I'll talk to anybody who

I find interesting. I just wanna talk to them. I think people are interesting. Yeah, it's funny. I've had a few,

I've had a few turn downs. Nothing I would say was rude. Like most of the people who've turned me down, it's just been a time issue.

Like they just, and I respect that. Like they just didn't have the time to do it and they were very gracious about it.

But I did have one guy who reached out to me who wanted, he wanted me to do a debate on his show.

No, I'm sorry. He wanted to, he wanted me to host a debate on my show.

But it was between him and another guy and he wanted me to host it. And I've done that.

I've hosted debates where I was the moderator and I bring two guys on and let them debate. But it was a paid thing.

He had paid this guy to debate him. Like he had offered this guy $1 ,000 to come and debate.

And I said, I don't do that. One of the things I made a rule a long time ago is that I would never pay for a guest.

And that way I don't have to ever, if somebody ever says, well, I'll come on your show, but it's $2 ,500.

I can just say, well, that just breaks a rule that I don't go against that rule. And because I consider what

I do somewhat of a news outlet, kind of like it's, this is a way I'm getting things.

And I don't think you should pay for news guests. So I see it as sort of, it's not journalism.

I talked to Meg Bashin two weeks ago and I was, the first thing I said to her was, I'm not a journalist, I'm a pastor.

But at the same time, we are, you and I both doing this. We are in the media of the modern journalists.

We're speaking to the world in a way that's unique to our time.

Think about this. And I know this is not what we were gonna talk about today, but just thinking about the medium of YouTube podcasting and Spotify and all those things.

When my dad was a kid, there was like one guy, like Walter Cronkite, that was like everybody heard the news that way.

And then when I was a kid, you and I, when we were a kid, there were your local news stations and then you had like your national news, 60

Minutes, that kind of stuff, right? And then we got the 24 -hour news cycle, which began right around the turn of the century and there was this

Fox News and there was CNN and there was all these 24 -hour news networks and everybody was flooded with information, but it was all partisan and it was all difficult to, like if you were a

Fox News person or you were an MSNBC person, right? You were that. And now everybody who's got an internet connection can be a journalist.

They can be a, and I've seen guys in their basements interviewing

Elon Musk, right? Like how did they get that interview? They got it because they were willing to put themselves out there, right?

They were willing to do that. And I'm like, man, there's a powerful medium here. I interviewed, have you ever heard of a man named

Lieutenant Colonel Dave Grossman? Have you ever heard of him? No, doesn't ring a bell.

Lieutenant Colonel Dave Grossman is former Army Ranger and currently does motivational speaking for police.

He does training for military and things like that on the subject of surviving lethal encounters.

He's got a book that's called On Combat and another book that's called On Killing. His whole thing is teaching people how to survive deadly encounters, right?

And he is like, he's an amazing man, but he's also a Christian. I met him years ago. I got to go to his seminar.

I got to have lunch with him. He's an amazing man. To this day, I think if I called him, he'd pick up the phone.

We just, we really hit it off. And he came on my show and like I said, my show,

I wasn't doing a whole lot. I was just interviewing whoever I could. And I was so grateful that he came on, but he said on my show, he said,

Keith, what you're doing and what guys like you are doing, guys like you, Steve, and other people, he says, what you're doing is the next wave of journalism.

You guys, this is the kind of stuff that is getting facts and information into people's ears that is so unique and new that didn't exist when he was a kid.

So he was really encouraging and I was very thankful to have that conversation with him and for him to encourage me to continue doing this.

So, yeah. Yeah, that's true. How was your interview with Megan? I just got her book.

I just cracked it. I just started reading like two pages. I had to go to bed, but I'm excited to read it because we were talking a little earlier.

I'm very happy that someone wrote something that's actually exposing some of the nonsense that's been happening in big evangelical circles everywhere.

How was she on the interview? I enjoyed the interview you had with her. Man, she's great.

I'm gonna tip my hand here. I read the book or she sent me the book before the interview.

So I had the opportunity to have a pre -read and I was encouraged by a lot of what it said.

I thought a lot of what she said had a lot of insightfulness to it. There was a lot of truth to it. I knew though,

I knew that once it hit, there was gonna be an immediate, people were gonna be defending their positions and people were gonna be circling the wagons and that's what's happened.

Yeah, it is. And I'm gonna drop a quick plug for something. I'm working on my latest episode of Church Soup, which is my news program.

I do a once a month news program where I just make fun of the news and it's usually church related.

And I've got a pretty good Megan Basham section that I'm gonna talk about her and her interaction with Gavin Ortlund.

So anybody who watches my program or watches my channel, you're gonna wanna watch that cause I'm gonna make a few little digs at what's going on.

Cause it's really, it's not funny, but it's almost a parody of itself, what's happened with all this.

It definitely deserves a lot of conversation. Did you put a portion of that at the beginning of your interview that I just listened to?

Yeah, that's not, that's not what's going on Church Soup. That was a skit. She and I filmed that skit for that interview.

We filmed the interview and right before we ended, we went for an hour, right before we ended,

I said, Megan, can I ask you for a favor? And she said, sure. And I said, would you be willing to give me five minutes to change my shirt and come back and just argue with you as if I'm Big Eva?

And she goes, oh yes, I want you to do that. So I went and put on my Big Eve outfit, which I use for my videos. I sat down and we didn't script it.

I just started and I laid into her and she fought back and it was so funny and I loved it.

And I, and man, she's just, she's just a real, she's real funny lady. And so I enjoyed that a lot.

That was fun. That was great, man. And don't, don't, don't feel bad about going off, off of our outline, man.

This is, we go where the conversation leads, man. This is, this is why we talk. That you've had some of those guest appearances like we were talking about.

And they, they, man, not just on your show, but on their shows, like there are some very, there are definitely a lot of $5 words that involve eschatology that are, that are thrown around there.

And a lot of people, a lot of people don't know much about the eschatology or even what the term means, right?

The eschatology simply means the study of the end times, right, and the end times specifically to what Christians believe.

And the, the, the Lord's return and the cat, the gathering of, of believers together.

Would you, would you explain just a real simple explanation of the three different kind of segments of views on eschatology, pre -millennial, pre -millennialism, post -millennialism, and amillennial.

Sure. The, the positions that you're talking about, pre, post and amillennialism, all come from Revelation chapter 20, verses one to 10, where there is a description of Satan being bound and put into a pit for a thousand years.

And the question that theologians wrestle with is whether or not that event is something that is going to happen after Christ returns, or if that event is something that has already happened.

And that's the, that's the distinction. There's actually, there are three positions, but there are really only two.

And I like to simplify things. I like to really simplify it. You're either a post -millennialist or you're a pre -millennialist.

Amillennialist, which is what I am, fall into the post -millennial category, meaning Christ will return after, post the millennium, right, after this thousand years where Satan is bound.

So the belief of the post -millennialist is that Satan is bound for a thousand years and then

Christ will return. Now, the post -millennialist does have to believe that that thousand years is not literal, that there's not a literal 1 ,000 years.

And then on 1 ,001, day 1 ,001, he's released. But it represents a long period of time.

And we know that within the Bible, that is the case. You know, God owns the cattle on 1 ,000 hills, but not 1 ,001.

You know, a day is 1 ,000 years, but not 1 ,001, right? So like 1 ,000 represents a long time.

So for the post -millennialist and the amillennialist, we say that the 1 ,000 years represents a long period of time where Satan is bound and Christ is ruling.

Now, the premillennialist says Christ returns and then that 1 ,000 years begins.

And they typically take a much more literal approach, saying that that 1 ,000 years is 1 ,000 years.

Christ returns, he binds Satan. Satan is bound for 1 ,000 years and Christ rules on this earth for 1 ,000 years while Satan is bound, at the end of which

Satan is released for a season and there's a war and that war ends with the final battle being won by Christ and then the eternal state begins.

And so - So pretty much the left -behind series. Yes, very similar. But left -behind is a specific flavor of premillennialism.

There are premillennialists who don't hold to the left -behind view. So there's some distinctions there.

And this is where - And that would be historic premill? Mm -hmm, yep. And it's called historic because some of the early church fathers held to that position, that there would be a 1 ,000 -year millennium that came after, or a 1 ,000 -year kingdom, a millennial kingdom, that came after the return of Christ.

And so that's the premillennial view. And a lot of people hold to that because they hold to what they consider to be a literal understanding of that text.

But the amillennial position, which is the position that I hold, see that text as being representative of the church age, the age between what we call the two

Advents, or the Advents meaning the coming of Christ. Christ came once.

We call that the first Advent. And I don't know if your church does this, but at Christmastime, many churches celebrate

Advent because that's Christ's first coming. And the second Advent is his second coming.

And so we call the church age the inter -Advental period, the period between the first coming and the second coming of Christ.

And so that period is what is believed to be the millennium, where Satan is bound, not completely, not fully, not in a way that he is unable to do anything, but he's bound specifically from deceiving the nations.

That's what the text says. And how is he not able to? Yep, he's not able to deceive the nations in that he cannot keep them from believing the gospel.

Satan is bound by the gospel. When Jesus sent out the 70 and he said, go out and preach the gospel, and they came back,

Jesus said, I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven at the preaching of the gospel.

You were preaching the gospel, and Satan fell like lightning from heaven. Jesus told a story.

He said there was, or he was giving a parable when he was talking to the Jewish leaders. He said, you cannot enter a strong man's house unless you first bind the strong man.

Well, the strong man in that context is Satan. You go back and read that text. So Jesus's argument was that his coming bound the strong man, bound

Satan. So that's what the premillennial, or I'm sorry, the amillennialist and the postmillennialist believe.

They believe Satan is currently under the binding of the gospel. Now, we do believe that there will come a day where he's released.

Some believe it's already happened, and that's why there's so much craziness in the world right now. I don't necessarily hold to that position, but that's what some people would say.

He's been released, and that's why there's, you know, drag queen story hour and all that stuff. But, so I understand when people look around and see all the craziness, how can

Satan be bound and it be all crazy? But that's the two different views. And here's the great part,

Steve, is that whichever view you take, it's not as if you're not a

Christian if you hold to one view or the other. So my dispensational brothers, my historic premill brothers are my brothers.

Michael Schultz is one of the great preachers of today. I love him to death. He and I are great friends.

And he's historic premill, and he and I have wonderful fellowship together. And, you know, there are things

I think he's wrong about, there are things he thinks I'm wrong about, but we both love the same Jesus and we preach the same gospel.

So it's not as if it's a gospel issue. Yeah, I appreciate that.

I think there's a, the major distinction between a lot of our outlook on eschatology, on the end times, really,

I think, really comes into play once you start looking at dispensationalism.

Once you start looking at, there's a pre -tribulation rapture, and, you know, we're gonna be whisked away before it gets bad, and who's flying the plane?

Oh no, a pile of pants. What's gonna happen? And, you know, to me, it always seemed really, really silly because when, again, like many other people who have a true, sincere desire to understand what scripture says,

I think oftentimes people will go to their elders, their deacons, their pastors, and say, could you explain this to me?

And if they have to go from one book to another book to another book to another book, all just to explain one teaching, it doesn't, to me, that doesn't make any sense.

When you read scripture for what it says at face value, then read it for what it says at face value.

If you wanna get deeper into the theological terms and into the Hebrew or the Greek or the

Aramaic, that's cool, that's fine. There's always room for that. But if you're gonna preach a topical sermon, something on a topic of something, and you're going back and forth between different books,

I just don't believe you. I just don't think that you have enough credit under what you're teaching somebody.

And I see that as a fatal flaw with dispensation, one of many, in my opinion, with dispensationalism.

You can't teach me the doctrine just by holding to the gospel, even just one genre, right?

One, just the gospel, Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, or a narrative, or the epistles, or something like that.

You have to go back and forth and take things out of context and say, but wait a minute, that was

Paul talking to Thessalonica, and now you're going to the book of Revelation written by John, the apostle

John, on Patmos, and now you're going back. None of it makes sense to me. And then if you get into the history of where dispensationalism starts, you're like John Nelson Darby, and you're like, come on,

Nick, come on. So at least with historic premillennialism,

I understand, okay, well, you can understand kind of you're going to go through some bad times, and whether you call it the great tribulation, or many great tribulations, or however you slice that actual translation issue, the fact is, tribulation has never stopped.

For the church, it's never stopped throughout history. It's just changed geographic location sometimes.

Right now, because I think, because our country had been founded by Christian people on Christian principles, maybe not so much today, but at least historically, they were

Christians seeking to worship God. And that was the purpose and the pretense for this nation.

I think God blessed this nation for that, and spared us a lot of persecution that other countries have gone through that we've been spared from.

And the more we turn our back from God, I think the more we're going to see pressure right now. It's not necessarily persecution, but if we continue down this left road of weirdoism,

I think we're going to see a lot of persecution in the days to come, regardless of where we're at in this country, or in this world, this country not excluded.

So this dispensationalism really is a very, very new teaching.

It's at least all millennial, post -millennial, kind of newer, but historic primal has been around since the first century.

Yeah, and the position of, like you just said, the premillennial position does have an ancient pedigree.

And it does make sense how people would arrive at that conclusion, reading Revelation as if it is historical narrative, and just reading it from one story to the next.

It does seem like Jesus returns in chapter 19, and then goes into a millennial kingdom in chapter 20.

The issue, though, is when we read Revelation, I don't believe it's chronological. I believe it's recapitulatory.

I think that's part of how I think it's to be understood, because we see that all throughout

Hebrew prophetic literature. What's that?

Do you split the book in half, then? Is it a retelling of the first half? No, I think there's multiple retellings.

I think that there's multiple times where judgment is mentioned. I think there's multiple times. Like, for instance, the term the battle is used three times.

It's used in chapter 16. It's used in chapter 19, and it's used in chapter 20, and I believe that those three times are all referencing the one final battle, but it's being retold.

The story's being retold. So I would probably follow along the same lines as Greg Beal in his commentary regarding the recapitulation in the text.

But that's, like I said, my only point is to say I understand how people become premillennial.

If you just read it chronologically, and that's what it seems to say, that's why

I don't get offended by people who are premillennial. I just don't understand it that way. I see it a different way.

But I think you're right about dispensational premillennialism. Dispensationalism introduces an entirely different hermeneutical lens through which to see the text.

And it's a, the lens is the lens of seeing, one, a distinction between Israel and the church that is a wide distinction rather than just a small distinction, and seeing a distinction between the age of the church and the age of the millennium as being, that's our, this is where the promises of Israel are going to be fulfilled is in that millennium.

And I believe the promises of Israel are fulfilled in Christ. And so that's the, that's a huge issue for me is when

I think of the promises that were made to Israel, I see those promises fulfilled in the Lord Jesus Christ and His first coming, and in His second coming ultimately, where we will receive the new heaven and the new earth, the final promise of that city that Abraham looked forward to that is built without hands, right?

That's the promise that he looked forward to. So that's a, that's just something

I wanted to mention is I understand how somebody could be pre -mill. I disagree, but dispensationalism is, is you're adding a lot to it.

I saw Nikki's comment, Nikki, that first of all, that's like super nice of you to say, that's really cool.

And I appreciate you listening to the program and would love to have you come visit the church sometime.

And that's really cool. So thank you for listening. Yeah, that's great.

I love having, man, you're a popular guy. You got way more people commenting on this than I ever get.

I'm feeling a little left out. No, I'm thankful that people are there.

Trying to read her comments, start out pre -mill disbe, now I didn't really have a concrete eschatology, has become, yeah.

Well, I tell you, that was Potato Sandwich who said that. And he said, I started out pre -mill, now

I don't have a concrete eschatology. A mill and post mill has become more compelling.

Here's what's gonna happen, Potato Sandwich. I know that's not your real name, but here's what's gonna happen.

Most people who start out pre dispensational pre -mill are that by default because that's what they were taught.

I mean, Steve and I grew up in a generation when that was the only thing that we ever heard. That was what we heard from the church.

That's what we heard from the TV. That's what we heard from the books, Tim LaHaye and Jerry Jenkins and all those.

That's what we heard. And then guys like R .C. Sproul and others began to challenge that.

And I say R .C. Sproul because he published a book, The Last Days According to Jesus.

Other people put out stuff that were challenging these. I take the one who really helped me and he's kind of gone a little sideways recently, but do you know who

Gary DeMar is? Gary DeMar is, he was a partial preterist, but now he's kind of, from what

I understand, he's kind of flirting with full preterism, which is dangerous. Yeah, that's not good. But Gary, I was in a conference with Gary.

It was when James White debated Bart Ehrman. I remember that debate very well.

My wife and I were there and Gary DeMar was preaching during the conference. And he said, the dispensationalists wanna argue that everything is literal until it's not because they see the locusts and they'll say, see, those are

Apache helicopters. Well, if they're Apache helicopters and they're not locusts, that's not literal. And I remember that like a light bulb went off in my head.

He's right, it's not literal. They're interpreting the literal parts the way they want to and everything else they get to reinterpret according to their own understanding.

Yeah, it's hard because like you said, I grew up like you. We're both 80s Mount St. Helens babies and we grew up with, all

I heard, I still remember DC Talk in that, what is it called?

Jesus Freak, man. Yeah. Is that how it, Jesus Freak? Marmalade Jelly. Yeah, but when they were like, there was a man with a tat on his big fat belly and it wiggled around like marmalade jelly.

Marmalade jelly. Took me a while to test what it said, but I had to match it with the belly with my head. Yes, absolutely.

I just rapped on your show, so there you go. There. I'm gonna record that and then replay it.

Jesus Freak is clutch. Yeah. Yeah. Okay, yeah, I gotta take a clip of that.

I'm gonna clip that out and post it out. We'll do it. Yeah, that'd be fun. And they had that, the one, the left behind one, too.

They had the really somber, sad one. Mm -hmm. Anyway, but that was great.

I was class of 98. Nikki said she's class of 99. I'm class of 98. Hey, Nikki, I'm with you. That was 99.

I am not. You must have been born late in 80 then. September, yeah, so it was like a month, two months after the cutoff for school.

I was April, yeah. So April 2nd, born a day late because I could have been born on April Fool's Day.

Yeah, you would have been a fool, though. Okay. I'm a fool for Jesus.

That's right, that's right. But that really was all that we had, man. That was all dispensationalism was off the charts when we were growing up.

And it was like you weren't really exposed to anything other than that. I even remember the

Billy Graham crusade coming into like Portland, Oregon and going through San Francisco and making the circuit.

I love Billy. I love the amount of people, the sacrifice that he's made and the impact that he's had on the church.

But my goodness, man, every head bowed and every eye closed. That stuff, it bothered me then.

It bothers me now. It's not a public declaration. I could go on for hours about that.

But that really was all we had. And so to understand later in my life, to understand that there's more than just a pre -dispy, premodispy position.

Like I just a couple of years ago understood the, maybe a year and a half ago, understood the post -millennial.

And I was like, whoa, where is that? Oh man. And you look at the

Olivet discourse in a whole different way now when you're like, well, yeah, in 70

AD, Rome was done with Jerusalem. It was a pretty enlightening for me.

And I really made me passionate about church history and how you look through the lens of our eschatology.

When did you start, I don't know, rethinking or when did you look at your eschatology any differently during your, probably your seminary maybe?

Well, I was gonna say that it all happened in seminary. I was taught that the seminary

I went to, the president of the seminary taught eschatology. Oh, there it is.

I wish we'd all been ready. Yep, yep. Two, what is it? Two weens? Two weens two?

Like tattoo weens? Two weens two, yeah, I guess. Thank you. I wish we'd all been ready. Thank you.

I'm sorry, go ahead. The seminary professor, or the president of the seminary was also the eschatology professor.

And he had written a book on dispensational premillennial view of Revelation. It was basically a commentary on Revelation.

And he taught it to us lock, stock, and barrel. I mean, I was told in class, if you don't believe that, if you don't believe in the rapture,

I hope you get left behind. I mean, that was the attitude. Like they like took a very strong stance on the rapture.

And so I did. I mean, that was what I was being taught. I thought it was biblical. And so I was having a conversation with a friend who didn't hold that position.

And I said something to him about it. And he goes, well, I don't see it that way. And I was like, I can't believe you. I can't believe you would deny that.

The Bible is so clear. So I went to my professor the next class, and I said, hey man,

I got a friend who denies the pre -tribulation rapture. Can you show me in scripture where I can go and show him and prove it to him?

And my professor began to go, just like what you just said, creating a string of pearls.

And he started in 1 Thessalonians 4, then he jumped over to Revelation 4.

And he went back and forth. See this? Well, the church has to be out here because look what's happening. The church has to be raptured out because of this.

And I'm like, yeah, but none of these say what you're saying. None of these are affirming what you're saying.

You're having to make massive logical leaps to get to where you are. So very soon thereafter,

I stopped being a pre -tribulationist. I was probably still a dispensationalist.

I was still a premillennialist, but I stopped being a pre -trib guy.

That was the first thing to fall. The first dominant - Can I ask you real quick, in this vein, can

I ask you real quick, just from, because I haven't been to seminary, you know, I'm not a pastor, but I've played one on TV.

Everything that I hear from the premilled dispute people say that the church, the

Holy Spirit, is what's holding back this day of terrible, you know, tribulation.

And that once the rapture happens in the church, right, the Holy Spirit living in the church is raptured away, then it's all unleashed, right?

That's, at least that's my understanding. Yep. And then for the next seven years, or seven and a half, or three and a half, or whatever, however they slice it, there's hell on earth.

And then during this time, then the people will come to faith during this terrible time of tribulation.

They'll be, their heads will be cut off and all bad will happen, but they'll be saved during that time.

But my question is, riddle me this, Riddler, my question is how can someone be saved by the

Holy Spirit, by the power of the Holy Spirit, and have the Holy Spirit living in them if the Holy Spirit is not there?

Yeah, that's the same. It's so funny that you say that because I remember very specifically having a dinner with a

New Testament professor who we had invited to our church. In fact, I remember when it was. Do you remember, what's up,

Walsh? Do you remember when Dan Brown wrote the

Da Vinci Code, when that came out? I do, gross. Our church had a week -long series of lessons debunking the things that the book was saying were facts, like about the

Nakamani texts and all that. Well, I invited a New Testament professor from the seminary that I went to to come in and talk about the history of the

Nakamani texts, right? So he came in and taught. Well, afterwards, I took him out. We went to, it doesn't matter,

I guess, but we went to a restaurant. And I forget, it was like Ruby Tuesdays. We went to Ruby Tuesdays. And as we were sitting at Ruby Tuesdays, I was telling him that I was no longer a dispensationalist.

By that point, I had stopped being a dispensationalist. And I said,

I said, can you tell me how, if the Spirit is taken away, how are people saved during the tribulation?

So the same question you just asked, the question I asked. And he said, oh, the Spirit comes back in 30 days. And I literally laughed out loud.

And I said, you just made that up. Like, you just, like, you literally, you're a big liar head.

You just made that up. Like, that is not in scripture at all. First, my book, dot 13.

Yeah, I mean, you know, it was first Thessalonians, you know, but I was just amazed because he just like said it like nonchalant.

Oh, the Spirit comes back in 30 days. Where does that come from? Now, the only legitimate answer

I've heard, because that was not a legitimate answer. The only legitimate answer I've heard to this question, because I have asked this question to other dispensationalists, is they argue that the time of the tribulation essentially is reverting back to the time prior to the coming of Christ, before the coming of the

Spirit to indwell the church. And so the people got saved in the tribulation the same way they got saved prior to the

New Testament church. That doesn't solve the problem though, because even Old Testament saints had to be saved by the work of the

Spirit, right? The Spirit changing their heart. No one comes to faith whose heart's not changed.

So it doesn't really solve the problem. But that's where they would argue.

They say that the Spirit's work in the tribulation is the same as the Spirit's work prior to the coming of Christ.

So, somebody said 4th Peter 6, 17.

That's funny. That's funny, 4th Peter, yeah. 4th Peter, yeah. Nice, nice.

Yeah, if you ever wanna get people going, if you have a chance to tell people, turn in their

Bible to Hezekiah 4. Everybody will start turning before they realize it's not really a book.

Hezekiah 4. I was gonna say, anybody listening who doesn't know, there's no such thing as 4th Peter.

Yeah, I know. That's funny. Sounds real. Sounds like it'd be true.

It sounds like a bunch of nonsense. Yeah. So, okay, so that was one of my questions is how can the

Holy Spirit work in the hearts of men? Although, yes, to whoever said that, the

Holy Spirit is sovereign also. However, if God has drawn a line in the sand and this is the time, just like he said, this is the time of the crucifixion and resurrection and ascension, that's a particular time that God is still sovereign through, but he constrains himself to live into and act into.

So if he's already set that up in his sovereignty to work into and work through, he's not gonna backtrack on his word.

God's not a liar. He's gonna do what he said he's gonna do. Amen. Yep. And so you're not gonna go to the

Fight Life Feast this year? No way I can convince you? I want to go. The thing that's keeping me from it is twofold.

One, I have several conferences I'm preaching before the end of the year. I'm preaching a conference in two weeks at a church in Ocala, and then

I'm preaching a conference next month at a church in Winter Haven, and then I'm preaching a conference the month after that in Arkansas.

So I'm gonna be all over the next few months actually preaching. Yeah, yeah.

So because of that, my first and foremost, I'm a father and a husband, and then after that,

I'm a pastor, and then third, fourth, fifth, 17th down the line, I'm a podcaster, right? Like the most important things are the most important things.

And I have to be in my church the primary amount of Sundays for the year because that's my primary vocation.

The church expects me to be there, and rightfully so because that's my primary mission is to preach and teach at Sovereign Grace Family Church.

So as much as I want to go, I don't think it would be prudent for me to go, even though I could probably figure out a way to make it work.

I would have to fly in, enjoy a day or two, and then fly right back. I'm also a terrible flyer.

I don't wanna go too far into that because I'm not here to do stand -up comedy, but I love,

I do stand -up comedy, but I won't break into my flight bit here. I will tell you this -

Maybe we can do part two. We can do another interview, and you can do your stand -up thing. Just do stand -up. I can tell you, yeah,

I got a lot of stories. I'll be Kurt Angle, and I'll save myself $2 ,500. Well, I had to fly to New Mexico with my son,

Arizona, actually, he was stationed in Arizona. I had to fly out there a few years ago, and it was during the mask situation where everybody had to mask, right?

But I found out that if you're eating on the plane, that you could take your mask off.

And so I went to the snack shop before getting on the plane, and I filled my pockets with M &M's and jelly beans.

So I could sit with an open jar on my belly, and I'm already a big guy.

So I just looked like this giant, massive man, because it's hard to sit in a seat when you're a big guy anyway, the little airplane seat.

And I'm sitting back with a bowl of jelly beans on my belly. And I just wanted to say, lady, buy a mask?

No, no, I'm eating. I did the same thing when they came by with the little snack things.

I broke it into like 10 different pieces. And every time one of them would walk by, I'd be like, I'm eating.

I don't have a mask to wear, because I'm eating. Exactly, exactly.

Those are great. I have a question. How versed in the gospels should

I be if I wanna start witnessing? Very good question. The first thing

I would say is, more so than being versed in the gospels, meaning the four books, you need to understand the gospel.

And the thing that I teach for evangelism that I think is very easy and helpful is it's an acrostic.

And it's the acrostic gospel, G -O -S -P -E -L. And if you can learn these things, you can at least have the starting point of a conversation.

So the first, the G stands for God created us, right? Like that's how you enter into a conversation about the gospel is helping people understand that God is the creator of all things.

God created us. And then the O stands for our sin separates us from him. Our sin is offensive to God and our sin separates us from God.

So God created us, our sin separates us from him. And by the way, I didn't invent this. I got this from Dare to Share Ministries.

Greg Steer, he's been on my show. He's a great brother and a good evangelist.

So this is from him. But God created us, our sin separates us from him. Sin cannot be forgiven on the basis of good works.

That one's a little longer to remember, but keep that in mind. If you can explain to them that your sin cannot be forgiven on the basis of good works, right?

And then the P, paying the price for sin, Jesus died and rose again.

Paying the price for sin, Jesus. That one kind of rhymes, so it's a little easy to remember. Paying the price for sin,

Jesus died and rose again. And then the E, everyone who trusts in him alone for salvation will have eternal life.

And I really stress the word alone. Everyone who trusts in him alone, not him plus works, not him plus other religions, not him plus anything we do, but you have to trust in him alone for salvation.

And then the L is that life eternal begins when we trust in Christ.

So that's the G -O -S -P -E -L. If you were in my church and you were wanting to share your faith, first thing

I would do is I would get you gospel tracts because gospel tracts are very helpful. I keep them with me all the time so that I can hand a gospel tract to someone.

Even if I'm in an elevator, I don't have but two minutes with somebody. I'll say, hey, can I give you this? It's just a card that tells you about Jesus.

Sure, most people take it. Some people say, ah, I don't wanna hear about Jesus. Okay, thank you. But I love gospel tracts.

I give it to them. But if you can remember that simple acrostic, that's a way to start.

And then start learning your Bible. Spend as much time as you can learning. Listen to good preaching.

Listen to good podcasts. Listen to your pastor and your elders as they seek to teach you the word.

That's my recommendation on that. I would, I like that.

I would say from a non -pastoral, I don't have an acrostic or anything fun to memorize.

I would simply say we're all dirtbags. Only Jesus can fix that.

And the only fix for that is to die to yourself and to live for him.

And that means every day you wake up and you put yourself on the shelf and put everybody on the shelf except for what

God wants for you to do. And you live that faith in and out of your job, of your family, of your, whether you're sleeping, whether you're brushing your teeth, you live that faith and consciously decide every single day.

Just like you're, I'm a big believer in choice, right? I also believe in God's sovereignty, but I'm a big believer in choice.

And I don't mean the nonsense that pagans say choice. I mean, every day you choose to be happy.

You choose to be sad. You choose to be mad. You choose to love your wife or your husband, if you're a woman.

You choose Christ first every single day. And if you are choosing Christ first every single day and you believe in the signifying work of the

Holy Spirit that God himself will form and fashion you into his son and you have your faith in Christ alone, that's gonna happen.

You just have to choose it every single day. And that gets you through the door.

Yeah, absolutely. That's the starter. Yep. Now we've said several times that you and I are 80s babies.

You know, we grew up in the 90s and even your podcast, right? Is even your podcast has like an 80s sitcom kind of intro to it.

Yes, that was Hans Feeney of Lutheran Satire wrote and produced and performed that song for me.

And he did an amazing job. And I'm so thankful because he did exactly what

I asked for. He said, what kind of song do you want? I said, I want an 80s song. He said, 80s

TV show or 80s hair band. I said, 80s TV show, obviously. I love movies and TV shows.

And man, he came through like gangbusters. Nobody could have done a better job than what he did.

So it was awesome. Yeah, as soon as the first time I listened to your podcast and I heard that intro,

I was like, dude, this is so like, either this guy is 70 and he's just going back to what he knows how to do, or this guy's an 80s baby.

And shortly thereafter, I understood you're like me, man. You grew up with what

I grew up with. The cousin, Larry Appleton. Remember that one? The cousin.

Perfect strangers. Perfect strangers. Yeah, yeah. Let's do the dance of joy, cousin. Yeah, yeah.

Oh man. And then my buddy that I grew up with, my best friend, David Sponible, my best friend that I ever grew up with, we used to spend the night in each other's house all the time.

And we would watch that. And then we would watch Family Matters and the

Cosby Show. And then there was the Golden Girls. And I always used to make fun of him because I would stay and I'd go play, you know,

Nintendo or something. And he's watching the Golden Girls. I'm like, what's wrong with you, girl? You're watching a bunch of old ladies.

Yeah, it was fun. You know what's funny? Real quick. The Golden Girls, I have to mention this.

The Golden Girls, there's an episode where one of them says,

I'm 45. And I was like, I'm 45, I'm a

Golden Girl. I'm as old as the Golden Girls. I'm like, 45? They're supposed to be retired.

Who retired? You know, I just remember. And I was like, they had to be older than 45. Oh, they were at least in their 60s.

They're absolutely. She said, I'm 45. And I was like, my wife and I both looked at each other like.

That's that's right. Well, but but to be fair, man, when we were teenagers, like even 30 something, we're like, oh, you guys are old.

Oh, yeah. And now and now being 40, 44, 44. Yeah, man, it's like, yeah,

I'm not I mean, I'm getting older. I have a busted back and busted knees and stuff, but I'm not like I'm not a golden girl.

I'm not a golden girl. Yeah, I'm not a golden girl. That's right. But they had some of the cool, you know, sitcoms.

And I was never a big hair band guy, but I loved Metallica. And, you know, then the the late 90s and early 2000s got into the grunge, you know,

Nirvana and Nine Inch Nails and stuff like that. But some of the movies were, man,

I ran I ran a poll on Twitter last week, I think. And I asked what the most like masculine man movie, the action, the man action movie for 80s and 90s.

And I the options were Predator, Rocky, Full Metal Jacket or Terminator two.

And before I tell you what what one, what do you think is the most masculine like which one would you pick?

Give them to me again real quick. Predator. Rocky. Full Metal Jacket or Terminator two.

And that list, if that's that's what we're sticking with, I my list goes to to Predator, followed very closely by Rocky.

Now, if you just said Rocky four, I might have given it to Rocky, but you said

Rocky. So that's why I wanted to hear again. I want to make sure I was right, because Rocky one. Is such an amazing movie.

I mean, I don't know if you know the story behind it. Sylvester Stallone writing it. He wouldn't sell it without him being tied as being the actor because he knew how he wanted to play it.

Yeah, he wrote it and he and he wanted it and he tried to sell it and they wanted to buy it. But he was like, I won't sell it unless I'm the actor.

They wanted to get somebody like a very established actor to do it. And he hadn't established himself yet.

There's a whole story behind the Rocky movie. I love Rocky. I love all four or actually the first four.

And then I have a soft spot for Rocky five, too. I don't like some of the later stuff. The Creed movies are

OK, but I'm a Rocky fan. Rocky four, though. Is like Rocky four and Rambo two.

Were American, they were the closest thing that we had in the 80s to American. Um, uh, basically propaganda films.

And here's what I mean. Propaganda films in, in, in like other countries are used to try to promote the government, right?

Well, Rambo two Rambo goes and he wins Vietnam one man against Vietnam and he wins

Vietnam. Like Rocky four, Rocky one man goes and wins the cold war by beating this

Russian giant. Right. What were the two issues that we were facing in the eighties? We were facing the fallout over the

Vietnam war and the old war cold war. Both of those movies were filmed by Sylvester Stallone.

Both of them were filmed in the same year and it came out in the same year. Both of them were during the

Reagan era where Reagan was promoting a strong American, uh, force against the world that, you know, that you had the

Soviet union, you had America and we were the ones who were right. We were the ones who were righteous. We were the ones who were strong and Rocky beat.

The Russians Rambo beat the Vietnamese and we're the winners, right? We're the winners. That's what those movies were.

They were American propaganda machines. And, and, and, and, and Sylvester Stallone was a one man propaganda army for Ronald Reagan.

And I love him for it. I just think it's great. So this is my, like I had this whole thought having said that. You asked masculine movies before.

Yes. Rocky is great, but predator. Oh my good predator has the most testosterone filled scenes.

The very opening scene where, where Arnold Schwarzenegger is wearing collared polo shirt.

He walks up to Carl Weathers, Apollo Creed. He flex their muscles and they listen tight and they all, you got the pushing too many pencils, right?

Like that moment in the movie demonstrates like what the whole movie is going to be about.

It's going to be about these, these, this team of, of just absolute adrenaline, testosterone pumped.

Jacked dudes up against the most incredible fighting creature in the world, which is the predator.

Yeah. It's it's, it's the winner to me. It's the winner. I just, the whole movie is a guy's movie has the greatest scene ever.

When, um, Mac, the, the, uh, the, uh, the friend of Jesse Ventura, Jesse Ventura, uh,

Blaine was shot. Mac, his friend picks up the mini gun and he mows down like several hundred yards and everybody comes out and they don't even know what they're shooting at.

They're that was great. That, that scene by itself is mind blowing.

It's just so cool. So, um, yeah, that's my movie. I, and again,

I didn't mean to get all like flustered about it, but like, like, this is like, this is my zone movies, uh, from the eighties, especially those movies.

And the other ones you mentioned are awesome to T terminator two is excellent, but isn't that 92.

I think it was 89 and I also got called out. I also got called out for a Rocky because, uh, it was somebody on Twitter.

Yeah. Yeah. So yeah, I was like, yeah, we'll pick whichever one you want. It's all right.

It's all right. Yeah. But it definitely was in within the eighties time, but, but what was the third?

The fourth one you said T2 was terminator two. It was, uh, terminator two full metal jacket, full metal.

Now full metal jacket to me is hard to watch because. Because full metal jacket, the scene with Vincent D 'Onofrio, where he shoots a spoiler alert for a 50 year old movie, uh, by the way, it's 50 years old.

Can you believe that? Now, man, the movie is, yeah, I mean, 40 years, 40, 45 year old movie.

Um, when, when, uh, when Vincent D 'Onofrio goes crazy and he shoots Arlie Ermey, who was playing the, uh, was playing the, the, the drill instructor, you know, he was actually a drill instructor.

You probably do. You're a true. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Arlie Ermey was actually a drew. They tried, they tried to hire a guy and he was like, no, you're screwing it up.

No. And it'd be like a hundred, a hundred takes. And he, and finally the director, the weirdo,

I can't remember what his name was, Stanley Kubrick, Kubrick. Yeah. Yeah. Uh, he was like, fine, you go do it.

And they shot it all in one scene. Cause he was like, yeah, perfect. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Well that movie. When you talk about a guy's movie, that movie to me is almost a depressive, like reality, my dad was in Vietnam and, um, and so like, it's so real, it's almost like saving private

Ryan for people who, for people who live that that's so real.

You know what I mean? It's just too real. And so, um, you know, Rambo was like, oh, you know, superhero guy beats the

Vietnamese, but like those movies, um, there was the deer Hunter. There was, uh, uh, full metal jacket.

There were several movies that were like, so real. Um, platoon movies like that. Those movies just private

Ryan. Yeah. It, it honestly, it's hard sometimes to watch because it's, it's like, like men really did this men really died.

Men really went through this hell on earth. And, um, so I, I, it's a great movie.

It's just a different genre to me. It's like, it's an entirely, it's not an adrenaline packed movie.

It's a movie that's it's, it's a, it's a, it's dealing with the fallout of war.

And, uh, I wrote a, I wrote a paper when I was in college about, um, will there ever be a utopia, uh, because it was,

I was in a, so I have a degree in social science, so I was writing on the subject of, uh, of, um, war and peace.

I forget what the, I forget the class, but it was, it was a, it was a sociology class, we're talking about war and peace. And the question was, do you think there would ever be a, a time where, where there would be peace on earth and a utopia?

And my answer was no. And my answer was one, because I'm a Christian. I believe men are sinful and I don't,

I don't believe sinful men will ever be able to live at peace with one another. As long as they're apart from Christ and they're people who are apart from Christ, they're always going to be at war.

But the second thing I said is this, is that worst war wars, wars are the start in the same way.

All conflict starts and all conflict begins with this simple premise. When two people want the same thing that they both cannot simultaneously enjoy at the same time and, and, and they're willing to take it from one another, then those two will become enemies.

And whether that, whether that is a natural resource, whether that is land, whether that is finances, whatever it is, a wife, whatever, like, like if somebody is willing to take, try to take my wife, he's at war with me, right?

Like he, that's, that's a war. Yeah, exactly. That's right. That's right. Yeah. Earl's going to have to die.

Remember the song Earl had to die? Yup. Earl had to die. Earl had to die. So, so that idea of a utopia in my mind can exist in a world that's, that's predicated on the total depravity of man.

Um, that has to be the utopia that we look forward to comes after Christ returns. Uh, so that anyway,

I know, man, I just went way off and I'm sorry, but that was just in my mind. And, uh, that's what, that's what this is about, bro.

I'm thankful that we've got people hanging with us, man. Potato sandwiches here forever. Lindsay's been here. Nikki's been here.

You guys are awesome. Lindsay's yeah. Paying attention. You got any thoughts for, uh, uh, Rose here, thoughts on Midway or Dunkirk?

Um, I, they're, they're good. I don't, I don't really have a favorite or anything, you know, to say just, just good stuff, uh, again, harder to watch.

So even movies that Troy, Troy was a good one, man.

That almost made my list of, of what I wanted if they just didn't have Brad Pitt. Okay.

So now we can have a conversation. I don't want to spend too much time on it, but are, so you're not a Brad, Brad Pitt fan.

And he's so feminine, man. Like he, he tries to run that line between feminine and masculine.

And it's like, dude, I just, he's too pretty. He's too pretty. Yeah. You need some scars or something, a busted nose or Tom Brady.

Same thing, man. You just need, you need a crooked nose, maybe a scarred cheek or something, a busted, you know, a

Theismann leg or something. And that's, that's funny. You're too pretty. Yeah.

Uh, uh, there was a not fight club. Well, he was ugly in there.

Yeah. That's that'll work. Yeah. Fight Brad Pitt. I'll, I'll be done with fight clubs. An interesting movie.

Again, just psychological, uh, film. Um, you ever hear the, the, the century and eighties guy.

Did you ever hear the, uh, the fan theory that, um, uh,

Oh goodness. What's the movie? Uh, uh, day off Ferris Bueller's day off. You ever hear the fan, the fan theory that Ferris Bueller didn't really exist, but Ferris Bueller was a creation in the mind of Cameron in the same way that, that, um,

Brad Pitt's character was created in the mind of like Cameron needed a day off and he needed to do these crazy.

And so he created this character in his mind that didn't really exist. And that character is

Ferris Bueller. And so it's a fight club style. Like the whole movie, if you go back and watch it with that, like it, like he doesn't really exist, but Cameron created him so that he would exist.

It's just so funny. Fan theories are always funny like that. They come up with some crazy stuff.

Yeah. Uh, Mary, uh, you're right, Mary. I did. I did leave out

Russell Crowe with, um, uh, gladiator and probably even better than gladiator

Cinderella, man. Yes. When he is, uh, uh,

I can't, I can't remember the name true story though. Like he's just as tough as nails boxer or in living in the great depression, you know, just a, a mammoth, like hard man.

I think Eric Kahn talked about that with, um, Dan Burkholder and one of their episodes where they were talking about greatest movies, greatest, uh, you know, um, greatest, uh,

I don't know if it was great at masculine movies or whatever, but basically a redemption movies. And, uh,

I want to show you something. I don't know if this is a, um, hold on.

Wait a minute. No, not that, not that, not that. Uh, I'm trying to, um,

I want to put something up here. You mentioned it. So I have to, uh, go for it. Okay.

Forgive me studio audience. I know I'm like doing something dumb here, but, uh, this is, where is it?

All right. What I'm, what I'm doing, you mentioned Russell Crowe, right? Yeah. Okay. So I want to show you a picture.

Nikki says, have you seen him lately? Well, this is, this is it. This is the reason I love this so much.

I had a friend send me this and, um, goodness gracious.

Come on, Keith, you're better than this. This is taking longer than it should. I apologize. Give me one more second.

This will be worth the joke. I promise. Uh, who didn't age well is Val Kilmer. You know,

I loved, I loved Val Kilmer in, uh, Tombstone by far top three all time.

My all time favorite movies. Tombstone. Uh, interesting fact also squirrel rabbit.

Uh, did you know, everybody says, um, he says, uh, I'll be your

Huckleberry, right? Yes. Remember that? And some people say, well, I know that's not what he says, but I know what you're going to say, but yeah, because the argument is that he said huckle bearer.

Yes. Yes. He said huckle bearer. Yeah. But there's some debate about bearer.

So the sides, and I didn't know this, my wife told me, and then I looked it up. I was like, Holy crap.

That's true. That's actually what it's called. The sides of the, um, casket are, uh, um, huckles and a pallbearer is the one who holds onto the huckles and carries it.

So a huckle bearer is the one who holds your casket and takes you to your grave.

And so the, the, at least the theory or, you know, the, the talking point is that he's saying,

I'll take you to your grave. I'll hold your huckle bear. I'll be your huckle bearer. So you, you had a retort.

Well, I just, I've heard that I've heard that argument and I, there's some debate as to the, uh, accuracy of that because the question is whether or not that's what he said.

I think there's a possibility that that's the intention, but I think he actually says huckleberry in the movie.

And so that's where the debate is. But I have a picture, man, I can't get it to work. I I'm trying to post this.

Um, maybe I, and I know we gotta, we gotta end soon. So I don't want to sit here and keep you all night. There's a, um, there's a picture of crow and if you see it and I wish

I could just, yeah, I don't know why it won't let me show a picture. Um, wait a minute.

Maybe, maybe if I, there's a way to do it. Screen stream yard lets me do it.

Uh, cause I can post this, I can put that image up. Let me go down here and see.

Um, there's, there's an image of, let's see. Is it window?

No, it's, it's, it's not giving me, hold on. Can you see it?

Nope. But right there, the blue shirt with the cigarette, click on the blue shirt with the cigarette. That's that's so bad.

Somebody saw that and they sent it to me. They said, Keith, is this you? I'm like, no, but I get why you would ask that is that's

Russell. And I said, I said that day, I said, I finally look like Russell Crowe.

He just, he just had to get really overweight and ugly to look like me. But that's fine. What is that?

Yes. That's from a movie. That's the movie that where he was the, um, crazy, uh, he was a, he was a driver and he, and he, and he went crazy or something, uh, it was like a hit and run thing or not hit and run, but there was a movie he was in,

I forget what it's called, um, but yeah, I look like Russell Crowe now I'm, uh, I'm overweight and I have a big white beard.

Marmalade jelly. Yeah. Marmalade jelly. That's right. My shirt, you know, it says, uh,

I hope it was a blast for them because it was certainly a blast for me. That's my, that's my tagline for my church suit.

Well, that was fun. That was fun. Well, the, uh, the, uh, poll in the poll, it was really close.

It was neck and neck. It was, it was between Rocky and, um, predator. Yeah. So then

I, then I was close. I said, I said one. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I, I, but I think

I agree with you, man. I think that there, there probably isn't a more masculine movie than, than predator, like a bunch of bad, bad dudes, you know, like smoking

Stokies and, and spitting chew and holding a 50 millimeter saw gun.

And, and the one dude, the one dude who is the baddest of them all is not

Arnie. Everybody in that movie is afraid of the

Indian guy, the guy who was native American. I forget his name in the movie. Um, but he, he was the one who took the knife, cut himself and like,

I'm going to go, I mean, he, he lasted two seconds. So he obviously wasn't, you know, but just.

Okay. Keith, the guy said he just started watching predator. Let me warn you. There is language. There's a lot, you may want to get a little bit of blood.

Vid angel. You may want to get vid angel because they're going to be some bombs dropped. Uh, and I'll, and I'll throw out a shameless plug for my friend.

There's a company called holy moly media where you can buy movies that are pre -edited and I buy movies from her all the time.

Holy moly media .com or .net. That's great. Yeah. Uh, so the, uh, yeah, so predator,

I'm, I'm definitely with you on the predator. Um, you talked about bat data.

I definitely, you, you absolutely have to do one when you do, when you do it like a bat dad kind of, uh, uh, thing, a cover you got to tell me, man.

So I gotta be the first one to see it. Yeah, absolutely. I want to see what Nikki said here.

I can barely see it. Can you pull that up? She said her best from high school, you know, didn't age well due to cancer.

She died when she was 30. So I'm not trying to make fun of people who, who aged, I guess with Kilmer. Yeah, no.

When I hope you didn't think I was making fun when I said he, and I don't know, Steve, I don't think you,

I'm sure you weren't either. We're just saying he, he certainly his, he doesn't look like he did in his youth.

And I do think there are health issues related to it. So certainly don't want you to think, um, that I was, you know, making fun.

I, I, I, I remember him. I remember Val Kilmer from real genius. That was like my

Val Kilmer, like love that. And then Top Gun, he was Iceman. And then, you know, I think Val Kilmer was a tremendous actor to tombstone, tremendous actor.

So no, not in any way was I trying to make, make fun. So, uh, definitely.

No, but, but we all age, you know, we all age and, and, you know, whether it's, uh, cancer or just getting old and decrepit, we all, we all lose something.

Some of us lose it faster than the others. And, uh, uh, you just, I think you just see it more explicitly in movies, you know, and people in Hollywood, you know, especially when they live their life and they get paid for how they present themselves and how they act and what they look like and how they sound and all of those things.

And you can just see it faster on them. I think. And the really sad part of that is that some of them refuse to age gracefully and they go and they get themselves messed up with all kinds of, you know, uh,

Botox and everything. They end up looking, yeah, they look unreal. Gross. And I think, I think a beautiful aged person, whether it's a man or woman, unless I'm a man,

I guess I would say handsome, but a person who lives their age and grows into their age is much more dignified than a person who tries to keep their youth, um, you know, just by falsifying all this stuff, you know, it's just such a, yeah.

There's a grace. In fact, there's a, there's a dignity in men when, when we get gray hair and you see like the, the dosekis guy, you know, he's like, or like Sean Connery or, uh, guys that they look more established and you know, they're not, maybe they're not as ripped as Brad Pitt and fight club.

Right. But yeah, you just look at them and we're like, wow, that dude's a rockstar. Man. I just,

I just, I just want to have a beer with you and listen to you. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

I think there's, there's a graceful way of aging and, um, and I think it's important that like, like you said, to your point,

Keith, uh, embrace it, man. Just don't, don't, don't hide it. Don't fake it. Don't do just enjoy the years, uh, and where that wisdom on you let people see that wisdom, you know,

I wish I had hair sometimes, but then I'm like, ah, no, that's a lot of work. And I hate when people try to fake when they don't have hair, but they make it look like they have hair and toupees or something just looks dumb.

I'd rather go bald is beautiful, baby. Well, the one thing I, you know, there's, there's a, there's a very good chance that I'm going to keep my hair for a long time only because my, my, my, my ancestors had long hair, you know, just like my dad is 77 still has a full head of hair.

He's not, he's not lost his hair at all. So there's a good chance I'm going to keep it. My mom's side of the family also.

Um, you know, so I just, I, if I go, if I shave it, like you, you have a good side, good shaped head.

If I shaved my head, I have a very oddly shaped head. So I got to keep, I got to keep it superior.

Theology requires superior hair. That's right. KJ. Awesome. You must have hair.

Yeah, I, I, uh, yeah, enjoy it.

Like whether, whether you have hair or you don't, whether you're gray or you're just own it, man, just own it and be comfortable in your skin or in your hair or not in your hair, uh, and wear it.

That's what you got. So, uh, I know that you're, I'm probably running out on time. How, how are we doing on time?

Yeah, I got to cut out soon. Cause I got to get ready to, uh, it's, it's 10 30 here. I've got to start getting ready for, uh, going and spending a little bit of time with the wife before we turn in.

But I've really enjoyed the conversation though. Really, really have had a lot of fun. Yes.

Me too. Last thing I'm going to ask you, I think we've, I think we've hit that eighties and nineties to death.

Just really enjoyed it. I can do that. That's my, that's my jam right there. Uh, and I'm going to open up.

I, I, sometimes I do this. I just open up a great big can of worms right before we, right before we finish. I want to get your opinion of Christian nationalism.

Okay. Um, are you a Christian nationalist? I think that I would fall under that category in, in certain aspects, but I'm not, here's what

I'm not, I am not a theonomist and I'm not a, uh, a reconstructionist and so Christian nationalism right now, anyone who believes abortion should be against the law.

I am an abolitionist. I'm an abortion abolitionist. I believe it should be completely destroyed and completely put away.

Anyone who holds that position is called a Christian nationalist. So I, in that respect, yeah, or a

Christian, but, but, but specifically that is, so I'm in the category that the world would call a

Christian nationalist. But when it comes to things like theonomy, which is, um, there's different ways of understanding that because theonomy refers to the application of God, the word theonomist means

God's law. How do you apply God's law today? Well, how do you understand the old covenant and how do you understand its relationship to the new covenant and the relationship to believers and the relationship to the nations?

And so that's, that's a big question that, that, that really does have to be parsed out.

I think that there are principles laid down in the law, and I think there are transcendent laws that do affect all nations of all time and all places, but I also believe that there are some laws which are specifically for the nation of Israel that were not intended to be for all nations.

And therefore you have to parse those out and you have to begin to actually ask difficult questions.

Like, um, if we're going to apply the civil law of Israel to all nations, um, do we also apply the, the, the laws that, uh, that apply to, um, areas like the ceremonies?

Well, we say, no, those have been abrogated. Okay. Well, where's the line, right? Where are these lines that we have to draw?

And those are questions that I think have to be addressed. Uh, I had a really good, really good conversation with R. Scott Clark about this.

I've had really good conversations with other guys about it. Um, but ultimately I, I would simply say,

I believe as a, as a Christian, we should seek the transcendent law of God as the foundation of the morals of society and the transcendent law of God would be that, that, that moral law of God that has stood since Adam and Eve, you know, don't murder, don't steal, don't commit adultery, those things should continue to be, uh, those things should continue to be the foundation upon which we build our laws.

And, um, so, so in that, I would say that's where I see

God's law being applied, theonomy being applied, uh, where, where I, where I see the biggest issue is like with reconstructionism and the idea of trying to, uh, create a

Christian state and that's, that's sort of the Christian nationalism. That's one version of Christian nationalism.

Um, you know, and, and Nikki just said, well, it's better than pagan globalism. Yeah, of course. Yeah. Uh, you know, we want, it's better to have

God's law than, than, than pagan globalism for sure. Uh, but at the same time, it's, it's, it's, here's a, here's a question that, um, that I think does have to be asked.

And that's the question of if there is going to be a

Christian law that, that we all, that we all are under, um, how do we parse out secondary issues?

And, and, and as a Baptist and I am a Baptist, I'm not a Presbyterian. A lot of people think

I'm Presbyterian. I'm not, I'm a Baptist as a Baptist. It concerns me when there is the idea of a

Christian state or Christian nation, because when that was tried in the past, my ancestors, my

Baptist ancestors, they were persecuted. They were drowned for being

Baptist. And so, um, and I hear today, well, that's not going to happen today.

Well, it happened before and history has a real mean way of repeating itself. And so, uh, that, that's just a concern that's on my heart that, that we have to consider, um, who's, who's, who's going to be the

Christian Prince who leads us all. And so that, that, those are just questions that I think people have to wrestle with.

Yeah. I think Jeff Irvin and Joel Webman both do a good job of, uh, kind of walking through some of these things, talking through some of it.

Um, I'm, I hold a lot of this stuff loosely myself, uh, but I'll, I'll echo what, um, was it, uh,

Nikki said, you know, it's better than pagan globalism that we have right now. I think with, uh, both with, uh, discussions of Christian nationalism and with abolitionists versus pro -life and the talk of Trump and, and, uh, all this stuff, you know, really comes down to, you know,

I don't look at, um, where we are now, uh, and then, um, well, what can, what, how can we get out of it?

I look at what brought us here and what brought us here is I think largely a failure of the church to say, sit on your hands and don't polish brass on a sinking ship and, uh, stay uninvolved in politics and stay uninvolved because you're in church and the church doesn't matter.

You know, the, the church shouldn't be involved in, in the world. Uh, and then they rip the, the context, the rip scripture straight out of context, kicking and screaming, and they say, you know,

Jesus said, be of this world, not be in this world, but not of it. And, and it just makes me go crazy every time people say that, say that because they have absolutely no idea what that means.

Uh, and they're using it very incorrectly. And we got here because good men have done nothing because the pastors in the pulpits have largely, uh, over the last couple of generations have said, sit on your hand and don't do anything.

You're not, you're not part of this world. Uh, and that's why we are in this position today. So if I would, whether it's the abolitionists who

I love dearly, uh, or the Christian conservatives who, uh, you know,

I think the, the small minority of people who were like making Trump a savior and that's nonsense, they're probably feds anyway,

CIA, a CIA operation or something. Um, but the, but the reason that we're in this place to begin with is because good men have done nothing and you see good men starting to do something like dusty Deaver's and there's a handful of other people who are starting to get more involved and they're starting to run for elected offices and they're starting to bring their, their

Christian morality and imposing it on the civic sphere. And whether we call that Christian nationalism or just living as a

Christian and being a Christian example, that's what we're supposed to do. In my opinion,

I think everywhere you are, you're supposed to influence this world for Christ and bring this kingdom now, bring

God's kingdom here now. And so whether, whether we put a name on it or not, it's just being a

Christian man. I just think that's all of our responsibilities and for the churches who are saying, stay out of politics, um, you're wrong and I think you, you need to read the

Bible again. Yeah, no, no, I agree with that. And I've, I've, I've said that publicly that I do think we are to, um, speak to the magistrate, that we're to call them to repentance or to point them to Christ and point them to their sin and say, if you are just like, uh,

John the Baptist. But with hair, with, uh, uh, Herod, you know, you're sinning and you need to repent.

So, yeah, exactly. Right. Keith, my man, uh, I'm going to close this out. Make sure that you hang out, make sure

I get everything uploaded before we, uh, take off. But where can people, uh, go to see what you do?

Are you going to have like do a standup special or a spot on Joe Rogan or something, where can people find you?

Uh, well right now, the easiest way to find me is just to go to keithfoskey .com and you can see my website.

You can send me an email directly. It comes right to my phone. And, uh, I usually answer emails within a week because I get several, so I can't answer them right away.

But usually you'll get an answer within a week. And, um, sometimes I answer them on my show. If there are questions that will, that I think other people might need to hear the answer to.

Um, you know, the, uh, the other, uh, other thing is the, the go, go to the

YouTube page and they can just go, they can type in Calvinistpodcast .com, text them right to the

YouTube page. And that's the best way to, to go watch my material. That's great. That's great.

And, uh, I definitely want you to come back, man. Yeah. Are you down for doing a part two?

Maybe we'll do like a skit or something. No, that'd be fun. We'll work it. We'll work it out for sure. That's great, man.

Everybody, uh, make sure you check out what Keith is doing on YouTube, uh, at, or on Twitter at your

Calvinist, uh, and visit s G F C J a

X .org. That's Sierra golf, Foxtrot, pearly Juliet, alpha x -ray .org.

Also make sure you go to regular man stuff .com. Get all your offensive meme gear and stuff.

You shouldn't wear to church and check out the brand new fan collection. Uh, you can even sign up to be on the wall.

If you want, as always rate and review, share the podcast with somebody, go on Apple, iTunes, Spotify, uh, rate and review the show until next time be on alert, stand firm in the faith, act like men and be strong.