Ghosts and Aliens - part 1 | S7 E2

Boom bop pow. Welcome back to the point-taking podcast guys today. We had a really really awesome episode.

We need a live right now. Yeah.

Our hand gestures were right on point with two of our dear friends brother Parker Brian.

And and brother bill for it. I don't think they're dear more like lion friends. All right.

I hated that and we can cut this entire segment. There are just the episode Seven people in the room for a lot. Let's ditch the episode if you're anything like me. This may somewhat frustrate you however, it's certainly worth the time and Certainly worth the listen because it was super interesting and I actually learned a whole lot guys.

So we really hope you enjoy the episode and without further ado. Let's get into it. Parker and I were talking earlier and Parker was trying to Do the podcast for the podcast started and We were talking about and he he mentioned something about purgatory.

No, that was you It was not me. Well, go ahead. What was your point that you were trying to make with you only have two destinations?

So I have personal experience that I was gonna get into but like biblically speaking are We either go to heaven or hell. Wouldn't we die? We don't linger for unfinished business or whatever else. So a ghost can't technically be what people think it is.

Biblically, that's all that's the only point I was making. So what is a ghost? Well we know because of biblical evidence that there's spirits. And I think that that is part of it, obviously we know demons exist.

But there's they're not all over the place just you know, haunting everybody like people think they are. Oh, those are my demons. It's not what I mean. I do believe that there are evil spirits, but I have a different belief as well that.

And.

This is just me. There's no nothing biblically that argues against it necessarily, but it's Like someone's personhood their spirit Can leave an imprint on people like you're different from meeting brother bill or hunter, right?

So Can that also imprint some? Some place on the earth, right? I've seen things that seem like seen and heard things that Had nothing to do with me. I was in the room that something happened in and like for instance my Ex-step-mom's mom passed away in the room that I Owen X my ex-step-mom.

Her mom got away in the room that I lived in prior to me living in that room and the bed was in the same position too and there were times I'd walked in and saw Her laying in a position that I'd seen her in before I'd heard her voice in the room I'd heard I'd seen her moving around in the room.

Briefly.

And.

I had some weird experiences when I was really young over at my grandparents house, but they bought that house new. So, I don't know what was there beforehand, but it was nothing that ever addressed me.

Nothing that ever talked to me. It was like something was happening. I was watching it was almost like watching a watching TV while in the room like it had nothing to do with me and then there's experiences I've had with.

Things that were very clearly messing with me as I got older which is part of my testimony that I do believe something was Following part of my family, but that's a different. Those are two completely different things.

So yeah spirit versus some type of imprint that's been left by.

Impersonating spirit.

Could be an impersonating spirit.

What do you mean by impersonator a.

Spirit that knew The person in question and then could come back.

Impersonating spirit. Now is that what you're getting at or are you more getting at? In other words when you say I want to make sure. When you say Leave an imprint on a place since places aren't sentient.

Are you meaning that more of what he's saying an impersonating spirit meant to. Act like that person in that place that you saw. Or are you saying there can be something spiritually left in a place. From someone who used to be there.

So the latter is what my impression of it has been. But it could be either way. I'm not sold either way, which is the reason I asked the question about ghosts to be brought up.

But.

It I don't really know. I wanted to have a discussion about it and get some more biblical answers about it because I'm pretty sold on evil spirits being a thing it but whatever I saw. But when it comes to Like a ghost sticking around we know that their soul is somewhere else.

It's not here anymore.

So what is that. And we know and we know that like My soul will not become omnipresent and can be like God. So we know that. Yeah, and we have a promise. Aura or something was left.

Something like that. I don't I don't have a name for it. My personal opinion and my personal Well opinion about it has been that it's some type of imprint left on that space by what we are. Which is was created by God.

We're the only beings on earth like this or so. It's like almost like a part of your personhood was left and left an imprint on that space.

I.

Don't know how to explain it any deeper than that.

So you're saying that this these like imprints can? Be imprinted upon and obviously you said you don't know but on a person or a place and in your experience like in that room.

Like you would see and you would hear. Yeah heard more than saw but there were a couple times I very clearly saw something. It was very obviously hurt.

So so if if we were gonna use the word haunted for example. Your view is not there is a spirit trapped between heaven and hell in that place. You're not there. You're saying I don't know what to call it, but there's some type of imprint Yes of that person that is there or it could be an impersonating spirit, I don't know this.

What's what I wanted to kind of try to get to the bottom of. So if it was the first one. Mm-hmm. How would you word it in a sense. In other words is that imprint sentient?

Doesn't know that it's no I do not believe it is. It's almost like a replay of something that's happened before. It's not like it's speaking to you or making different decisions. It's like. Something that was left there is almost like a recording.

Hmm, I don't know. There's nothing that I've seen biblically that argues for or against anything like that. I've been trying to find a biblical answer for that so it. If a spirit makes more sense, then.

And what and what would an impersonating spirits purpose be in your mind though? Confusion confusion confusion.

One of the definitions I saw is like they're an unresolved trauma Has kept them Willfully or Unwillingly trapped in this.

Time.

We've all seen that and it would.

To me it would Sort of be pushing you towards reincarnation. Like you have a you have a choice on when you leave and go into the next world, you know that's that is a.

Secular definition. Sure. Sure. Sure. Sure. So in your mind Whatever Parker is describing if we want to use the word impression would always be when I say negative would always be of Satan not of God.

Is that what you're getting at or you're not going that far? Okay, if the purpose is confusion, obviously that's not of God. Our God is not a god of confusion, you know, right? Okay.

Okay. I mean this isn't an unheard of thing. Sure cuz I mean even you watch any. You know shows like if you've ever watched supernatural they have something called the echoes.

Have you ever noticed that every show on the History Channel has nothing to do with history, but they're all interesting. But they're not.

But I mean, it's not the only thing but it's like based in there, you know little writing TV world. It was this person went through something sudden and traumatic and that's how they died. Mm-hmm, and then they just their spirit replays it and so it's just like you you go into the house or the area.

So if they were hit by a car, you know. Maybe they're in a neighboring house and they just are echoing that those last few moments of their life. Right before they died. Which was kind of what this reminded me of.

Just like it kind of seems like something like that. With that impression that you made just like you see or hear little bits of their time that they were alive. Not talking directly to you, but just as if they were still there.

Yeah, I mean she.

She was suffering of cancer and dying of cancer when all this stuff was going on. Which is what I what I believe that I witnessed was like a replay of that I Don't see how. Of course, I don't know. Mm-hmm.

It's reason I asked but I don't see how something that Wasn't significant could leave some type of impression like that. So.

No, I've got a thought on that. Okay, so I Think so, I don't think I'm gonna go as far as to say that an impression can be left on a place I don't think I'm gonna go that far. But here's what I will say.

So for example, I think it's important that we solidify the biblical teaching that Right now spirits are.

Either.

Eternally away from God or eternally with God. The only part of them that is left here is Their body. Physical body is physical body, right, right. Their soul slash their mind. Their personality is with their spirit.

And here's how I know that. So let me I'm going too fast. So if we view ourselves. The way the Bible views us is having a body in a spirit. Soul is that which makes us us. So. All those movies. Freaky Friday Trading.

Whatever right? It's like It's like if Parker's personality were put in my body and my person I would. This is a bad example because we have almost same body type, but I'm I was putting the parkers, right?

But the idea being our.

Souls are.

Connected to our spirits in the eternal place and we know that because the few pictures we get into heaven or hell Even without the physical body that person's identified by their name. By who that so remember the rich man Lazarus.

He has his own personality still intact from when he was on earth. Both of them. Do he's able to talk to Abraham whose body is still somewhere buried in the Middle East as Abraham. You don't mean. So I I want to go that far.

I would not send their impressions left on places. However. Here's what I will say the universe is a Spiritual place in the sense that in reality The physical world is the temporary not fake. It's not fake.

That's not true. It's it's the temporary one. The spiritual world is the eternal one. This world is passing away. We all understand that now that is not to say that in heaven and earth. We won't have bodies.

We will they'll just be Spiritual bodies, but we will have bodies one day. But the point I'm getting at is this. At this even though I would say no impressions that The whole of the person is in heaven or hell We have impacts on this place.

God told Adam the ground is cursed because of you.

So.

Not impressions in the sense of maybe as far as you're taking it but consequences. The ground is cursed because of man. The reason why it's hard to grow plants and thorns and thistles the reason why dogs get sick and trees died is because of man.

So there are consequences to our existence in this mostly spiritual universe. I Would say that I would also say that what we do has eternal significance and That it can press upon people not just on their physical bodies.

But.

When we do the will of God when we share the love of Jesus when we make an impact on somebody. It's not just their brain That brings that to memory 15 years down the road when you're dead and gone. It is the work of the Spirit bringing that work that you did to their mind and to their heart So that they can act on it.

So.

I.

Would say it's important for us to confess what the Bible teaches that the whole of the Spirit goes to be with God. It goes to be away from God, which we've already said. I would say that I'm not so fast When I hear of things happening that can't only happen.

That can't happen in a purely physical world. I don't immediately dismiss it because this is not a purely physical world. It's just not in fact, that's actually the Lesser significant more temporary part of the world is the physical world if you want to think of it that way.

Yeah, I'll say and just to start it off I think I'll say I don't believe in any of that. I Personally I don't believe In any of that. I just don't see it. However, I will say this I Have always had fairly strong Opinions and I would make very quick judgments, I think because of those convictions, but I've come to to be thinking about it and I'm wondering it's kind of similar in the same way of mythology.

Think of like why do Multiple countries have Historical myths of dragons all Originating from their own continent.

Right not being shared like it's not just China's dragons existed would be the would be logical.

Right, and so, you know that is it necessarily a hundred percent true? No, but is that more logical in the same way? Even though I do not believe in.

You know, I don't really believe the word goes. We don't believe in go. I don't believe in goes.

I I don't really believe in the imprint thing or anything. However instilled inside of me when odd things happen that are not that don't Click in my head as natural or normal. There is a fear.

There's like a natural like you're afraid someone's watching and there's no one behind you, right?

There's there's something about that there there's a natural fear instilled in. Most people why our horror movies typically spirits and ghosts. Like why is that the case? You know in our natural being if that's if there's nothing to it, you know.

So like just on the for argument from somebody who knows I I don't disagree with you. I definitely do not believe in ghosts, especially in a traditional way. What I'm trying to find out is. An explanation for what I did experience.

Because I experienced something it could very well be just something in me. What I'd experienced that now I didn't see. Some of the things that I saw and heard weren't things that I necessarily saw and heard in person.

But could have happened in that room.

So.

That's what I'm trying to explain. I don't have like any super strong opinions on it. It's just what I've tried to make sense of it. Is it really all it boils down to because it was something it could have just like I said been something that was within me.

That made me think I saw something or think I heard something and I'm not gonna dismiss that as a possibility. It's just it feels like it's happened. Yeah, the experience happened right one way or another.

Yeah, you try to say something. Oh you were talking about the fear that was ingrained in you. Perhaps superstition is part of our basic human nature and. Yeah, something strange happens. Yeah here on your arm stands.

I mean, but why would that be?

You know, I I think what Bill was getting at earlier is the key to almost all of The instances like what Parker described and I'm gonna use the word almost on purpose for a moment because all Satan is a god.

What?

In a sense I got a confusion but for for the lack of clarity it is a spirit of confusion. Yeah. The best way to confuse people is to say things that are almost 100 true. Yeah.

100 Okay, so.

Remember back in the garden. He doesn't say to Eve and Adam. There is no God. That would have been a very unconvincing lie. They saw him. They heard him. That's that would not have been a very convincing lie.

He said did God really say? In other words, I'll let you believe that God is omniscient all-powerful All-knowing. I'll let you believe that he created all you can keep all that. But let's doubt his word.

And what he has said to you. Did he really say that that was the first lie that he said to ma 'am?

So.

It is amazing that.

Satan.

Binds people up with things that are mostly true like humans or spiritual creatures. Right, and then he takes that to extremes of having people hyper focused on loved ones that have departed and Instead of being at peace with where they're at Teaches them some lies.

They're in some in-between land. And speaking to you to your TV, you know things like that. And Satan's really good at his job, but I would say.

While.

And again We don't know all the workings of Satan. I think if God right now revealed to us every plan Every demonic influence thing that happens in our nation. For example, I think we'd be blown away because so little of it is Possessional control and so much of it is influence and I think One of the things we have to remember is how wicked is our world.

I'll just give you two examples. And if I get the talking too much you tell me to shut up. All right.

That's too much.

Let's start with humans, let's start with humans. The darkest book in the entire Bible is the book of Judges. It's a hard read. I don't read parts of it before I go to bed. It's a hard read. The last Senate says for there was no king in Israel and everyone did what was right in their own eyes.

This is how evil humans are not that everyone was trying to do bad. Everyone did what was right in their own eyes. And we have the most violent most gruesome most sexually perverse. Horrific things happen in that.

Because everyone did what they thought was right totally. Let your conscience be your God is what Jiminy Cricket tells us. That's what it gets us listen to your heart. Yeah, right. And the other one is Ephesians 2 that says that every human being prayer salvation is.

Walking according to the ways of Satan. Well, how are they walking according to the Saints ways of Satan. Not with Ouija boards for the most part or tarot cards. I don't know how to pronounce that word tarot.

Yeah.

Oh.

That's not the norm. The norm is By teaching them to look inward By teaching them and distracting them with everything other than God. Humanism. And the way to do that is to have a lot of God ish things.

That they're looking at. I'm not a Christian. I'm spiritual. Yes.

Yes, or I'm a Christian and being a Christian is the gospel plus. Yeah, it's it's getting as close to the truth as you can because that's where the best lies. Happen whenever I mess with someone and trying to convince them.

Joking that that I'm right and they're wrong and I realize I'm wrong. Like let's say it said. Well, you're the one who who did that? I'll say things that day that were true. You don't remember us going to he was that day.

Yeah, and you ordered the one without onion so I could have the leftover and I just say a bunch of things that are True and then I say and then this I'm like, you know, I do remember all that. I guess you're right.

It works wonders. That's a joke.

But.

I'll never trust you.

But.

You know when it comes back to the thing with ghost I Think hunter said it right and Parker. I think we're all on the same page. There is no such thing as trap spirits. There is no such thing as absolutely not with God.

There's no such thing as that. The only thing I will say is.

God.

Works in mysterious ways and so does Satan. That's as far as I can go with that. God works in mysterious ways so to say. But here's here's what I would say.

For sure. I don't think.

There are places that I go Where there's so little of the presence of God, I feel it when I go there. I've talked this way about New Orleans. Yes. I've talked that way. Oh, yeah. Yeah, I've been there eight or nine times.

I felt that way before not picking on anyone who might listen this from New Orleans. It's a fact.

I.

Don't go as far as to say then that means that's a permanent impression of that place. I can never know if if God's people there who are called by his name humble themselves and pray. Not just the world.

If God's people the remnant humble themselves and pray and seek his face and he will turn and heal the land. You know, God can do that anywhere with God's people. So yeah as far as your specific experience I've got about a million questions.

I could ask of who what when where why but I think In general if we keep those big obvious things, there are no trap spirits. And those kind of things. I Don't see any other time in the Bible describing what you described Where a Impression of a person's soul or spirit is left on a place.

I'm trying to think of a single time.

It was just an idea like, you know, that's that's one of those things where it there's nothing that I've seen in the Bible that Says yes, that's possible or no that is that is impossible, which is.

In.

I'm paraphrasing greatly here, but the Bible does say that there are things that we do not know and We will know them in the future. It will be revealed to us and I just kind of chalk it up to be One of those things where it's not it's just something we don't know about yet.

Sure. Or it could have just been in my own head. So there's that.

All right, so let's let's talk about so we've had our opinions they're based biblically. Usually let's look in the Bible where we have right? So right now obvious. I'm going to the obvious one first. Samuel 28.

Yep, um, and this is one of our best. Yeah, yeah, it's it's gonna be your what if my opinion is the best argument or really just example of Spiritualism and that realm we've done this for the podcast before we have yeah, and we've talked about it.

But now we're gonna do it in a slightly new light because now we're raising the question. Well, what's the difference between a soul and a spirit? Spiritual bodies versus non spiritual bodies being called by their name even though they don't have a body.

So as I read this, I'd like us to figure out. Okay, um did the witch call up a spirit a ghost or a soul and. And just keep thinking than that. So this is King Saul. He had put out a hit basically on all the spiritualists and the mediums said cut their heads off.

Yada. Yada.

Then he goes unless he needs their correct unless he needs their help then he goes in disguise. Don't do that, right? No. Yeah, no.

Yeah, just think about an armed security.

Anti-gun. Unless they're protecting me, right?

Then he goes in disguise to the medium and the mediums just like hey I shouldn't be doing this because the king is beheading all of us and then Saul who is the king is just like no. It's totally fine.

So let's go to first Samuel 28. Starting in verse 8. So Saul disguised himself putting on other clothes and at night he and two men went to the woman. Consult a spirit for me. He said and bring up for me the one I named.

But the woman said to him surely, you know what Saul has done. He's cut off the mediums and spiritists from the land. Why do you have to why have you set a trap for me my life to bring about my death?

Saul swore to her by the Lord.

As.

As surely as the Lord lives you will not be punished for this. Then the woman asked who shall I bring up for you? Bring up Samuel. He said. When the woman saw Samuel she cried out at the top of her voice and said to Saul why have you deceived me?

You are Saul. Already there should be some questions here. The king said to her don't be afraid. What do you see? So he doesn't see it. The woman said I see a ghostly figure Coming up out of the earth.

What does he look like? He asked. An old man wearing a robe is coming up. Then Saul knew it was Samuel and he bowed down and prostrated himself with his face to the ground. Samuel said to Saul why have you disturbed me by bringing me up?

All right.

Lots of things to See here. One. It seems that she has access to bring up whomever. Who do you want me to bring up. Samuel. Done? It's like okay. Bring up.

Do we have a different translation of that. Does your say bring up the translate. Most of the translations I've seen since. He sought out a woman with a familiar spirit.

With a familiar spirit, right?

Instead of this the New King James has medium, but if she had a familiar spirit, then she was aware of this things in the supernatural.

And.

Probably she made her living by bringing up false spirits. False. Yeah, I mean it okay.

If.

Somebody paid her to bring up the spirit of uncle George. Sure, then there would be like an impersonating.

So spirit. Oh an impersonating so that's exactly what I was about to get out.

But Bill said it a hundred times better than I ever will but the point what he just said. Yeah, she doesn't seem shocked that she's able to do this. She wasn't. No she does she seems freaked when when.

Samuel comes up when it's Sam. So it's like, you know, did God allow some special dispensation here?

So you would have had to if that was him because this sounds a whole lot like people trying to assume powers that only God Has. Well if they're bringing so are we. Are we saying ghost up? Are we saying that beforehand?

She was not bringing anybody up and when suddenly Samuel appeared. She's like, oh crap. This is for real. I.

Think what we're getting at is You can word it however you want. Satan through demonic spirits Led people to believe that what they were bringing up previously was The spirit of their loved ones when it was really Demon.

A you you follow me on this, okay. We have God Allowing as far as I am aware the only time in the entire Bible. Okay, I'll let you actually talk to Samuel.

One time look at look at verse 15.

Samuel said to Saul.

Yeah, and then Samuel said the same in verse 16 and.

Verse 20.

Yeah, it's actually Samuel here. So I think Bill is spot-on. I think what we. Satan's the great deceiver. I think I think what we have here is exactly what we have with all the false gods. Watch this.

Everyone how many gods are there? Well biblically you have to say one. Yeah. So what do we do with? Hundreds of passing the Old Testament about bail about you know, I'm sure and I think the answer is very simple.

Bail the God does not exist. However, Satan using demonic spirits allows magicians to do things like he did with Pharaoh allows Idols to move allows Them to think there was actually a god out there named Bale allows them to think there's actually a god out there named Anubis allows them to actually think there's actually a God of the river or something like that.

What that is is spiritual demonic powers deceiving making people think there's actually a.

God like that, right, but there were principalities and power 100 like the.

Prince.

Persia princess. Exactly. Yeah, exactly. Those are all I won't say minions of Satan again.

To deceive.

The purpose is to deceive. And what a great deception. Yeah, and what a great deception that is. I think what Bill said right here is this is the only time we have where Yahweh allows one of his own one of his own.

To come speak to a living person in this case Saul.

Well, that's the only way it would have happened because there's no way that a human being could assume power.

Now that's if we're talking about the soul. So it's like is there a difference between the soul the spirit or the imprint or the whisper or whatever you want to call?

Visible. How do you define a spirit? Right? That's the question.

That's what I was saying with this is is there a possibility and which I've already stated. My belief is no, but what I'm saying is for those who still who are saying like wait. Is there a possibility that not?

Samuel with notwithstanding Samuel's obviously different, but is there a possibility that that which Was not faking every time and it wasn't just a demon. No, no, maybe I misunderstood.

I'm not saying she was faking. She really believes bringing up the Lie detector test. She would think she was bringing up spirits of people, right? Well, she was surprised when Samuel. Samuel showed up then because she could actually recognize that it was Samuel.

She could see him in his form. He was wearing robes and he was an old man.

So could she not see them in their forms beforehand, I think we would assume. No, okay, right. Because either either.

She was a phony a big fat phony or.

She was bringing up. The interesting part of this passage is when she sees it Samuel. She knows she knows it's all. So when she sees it Samuel. She knows this guy. I saw got you. That's the interesting part of which there's a couple reasons you could think that and I've never been able to solidify my.

But the best I have up to why. Just point me to the verse.

12.

Yeah, you saw Samuel and cried with a loud voice because remember. She is most likely Someone who has been removed from Israel by Saul and Samuel because remember Saul is the one who declared the edict.

Well, Samuel is the prophet to the king. So she probably was familiar with them. Their parents what they look like it says he disguised himself.

Yeah, but he can't make himself short and he was a particularly tall dude.

So they're already afraid of Saul and then this tall shows up obviously whatever has been happening in her life. It never happened like this. So she saw something it was able to recognize him as Samuel.

So this was a unique experience. For what however, we want to interpret that. And then she knew. This must be Saul. Mm-hmm. And He's asking for his prophet the one who gave him God's word to come give him one more word.

And by the way, it's not a good word. Well, does it?

Does it say that she was surprised that she could see Samuel. It says when the woman saw Samuel She cried out at the top of her voice and said it's all. Why have you deceived me? Well since verse 11.

He said specifically bring up Samuel Verse 12. Why would she cry with a loud voice when she saw Samuel?

See that's what I'm confused about if it was some type of spirit that she had been bringing up previously meant to deceive. Then whether that she thought it was actually the soul of that person or not.

It sounds to me like she had been seeing.

What she believes the actual person right from the ground. It doesn't mean they were recognizable. Yeah, it doesn't mean that's true. Fair. Heard something heard something. Whisper shadow. We have to have to be actually a gear.

Yeah, cuz that's what I was confused.