TIL- Covenant Reformed Theology pt 3

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TiL- Reformed Covenant Theology pt 4

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Welcome to the Truth in Love podcast. We're thankful that you're with us tonight. I'm Rob, that's

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Dan. This is part three of our conversation of Covenant Reformed Theology by Harrison Perkins.

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We're in chapter three, stick with us. Welcome to the

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Truth in Love podcast. Join this Baptist and Presbyterian as they discuss theology and its application to life.

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Together, let's seek the Son and glorify the Father. Stay tuned as we speak truth in love.

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All right, welcome back. Dan, how are you doing? Fantastic, it was getting me. I was grooving along with the intro music, that old

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AI British dude was telling it like it is, so I'm doing pretty good. How are you doing?

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Not quite as long as the other one, so it cuts us short, can't get in the groove. You're just dancing a little bit.

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I'm doing okay. I'm a little tired, but I'm thankful to be learning.

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I'm thankful to be doing this with you. I'm thankful that God has given us life and we're able to do this.

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Yeah, and I'm kind of excited about this chapter, and I wanted to share with you,

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I want to follow you as you lead us through this chapter. I know this is part of your work in the ordination process and the

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CRPCNA. I don't even know what that is.

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I'm pretty sure you got to have a jurist doctorate for that. RPCNA.

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There you go, RPCNA. That's animals or something.

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I was starting to sound like a certain president that we have. I don't know about that.

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I'm trying not to listen to anything that anybody says from politics. There you go. Let me share with you two of the reasons why

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I was kind of excited about this chapter in particular, and then you can respond and then you can kind of take off and lead us to this chapter.

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So the title of the chapter is The Covenant's Legal Character and Reward. I added, replaced to that title, but through what

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I read in that chapter, God made us for eschatological life. I remember that sentence.

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Yeah, that made me excited about... It sounds post -meal. It sounds post -meal, but what he's doing is answering some questions that I didn't even know that I had, really.

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I should have had, should have thought about, but didn't know that I even had these questions. So two things that jumped out at me.

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One of those is those questions that I didn't have, but probably should have had, and maybe there's some other folks who have thought about this before, but Adam.

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This covenant of works starts with Adam. God made the covenant with Adam.

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I always thought or made an assumption that when it comes to Adam, when you present the question to yourself, what if Adam would have not fallen?

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What if Adam and Eve had not fallen? What if they had not disobeyed? What would life look like, let's start at the beginning, for them?

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What would it look like? And my thought was, well, they would have just continued to live perpetually, you know, here on this earth, obeying

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God, having a, I like the phrase that you used, I even used it in my sermon,

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I believe I did, a proper relationship with God. Oh, don't quote me on stuff.

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That's the wording you used, and I liked it. I used it, and he uses another word that I want to bring up in this chapter too, but they had a proper relationship with God.

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They would have perpetually had a proper relationship with God if they had not disobeyed God, and that's where I left it.

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But the author here in this chapter brings out a different idea, and it goes back to that title change,

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God made us for eschatological life. There was something more even for the

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Adam that didn't fall, the Adam that obeyed

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God, that continued that perpetual obedience, that perpetual proper relationship with God, and here's the reason, and I never thought about this until this chapter.

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So shame on me, or it shows my lack of study? Yeah. So what position, what was

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Adam's nature? It wasn't a sin nature prior to the fall. What was his life like?

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Who was Adam? And what I learned from this chapter was, well, he had the ability, because he had a proper relationship with God, to obey

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God, to make a proper relationship with God, but in the negative sense, he had the ability to disobey

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God. Sure. Obviously. Obviously, because it happened.

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Yeah. So the author here pulls out this idea that God, even for Adam, had a deeper, better communion waiting for him if he would have maintained that proper relationship.

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I never thought about that. Yeah, it's interesting. He brings it out, because he ties everything into the idea of the image of God in Adam.

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What Adam did, or what Adam was, as the image of God, was that he had the built -in framework where he could image

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God to the rest of creation in all of what God was, as much as a creature would be able to.

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In other words, he's not divine, but he would be able to show off the different aspects of God as the image of God.

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So he had the framework there to glorify God in the creation in which he was placed, but also, furthermore, in the spiritual or the supernatural realm that he wasn't fully a part of, or at least not fully therein.

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Does that make sense? Yeah. There was more to it. There's more to the existence that Adam hadn't yet experienced, that he was going to have a part of.

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When we think of it, when we come to the end of our life, when we look towards our eschatology, we look to where, which is

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Adam's as well, when we look over there, we think of ourselves as having a real physical existence redeemed by Christ.

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Our bodies that lay in the ground are going to be resurrected, but resurrected perfectly and redeemed.

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Also, we're going to have a spiritual existence where we're going to be in heaven. We're going to be in heaven, whether that's one day a week on a

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Sabbath or all the time, or we can flow freely back and forth. There's going to be more of an existence than we have now because we're going to be able to see

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God as he is. We're going to be able to see him on his throne. So Adam didn't have that in the garden, but Adam had perfect, wonderful communion with God in the garden.

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So part of his reward for keeping that covenant of works in the garden was to be that he would be able to experience the fullness of communion with God, which is what we can only experience through Christ, that full communion with God.

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He had wonderful communion walking in with God in the cool of the day, taking care of his creation, working the ground and living in the garden, worshiping

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God the way that he had called him to be worshiped. But there was a little bit more that he could have had access to had he not fallen.

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That would have been where he, instead of reaching out for the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, would have reached out and grabbed the tree of life.

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That tree of life would have brought eternal life to him. It's an incredible thought that all the things that we're looking forward to are things that could have been gathered by or granted to Adam by God if Adam had been obedient to the covenant of works.

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Yeah, and what was so fascinating is that this, we don't normally, and I guess

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I can speak for myself, don't normally think in these terms, but as the author was pointing out,

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God had an eschatological plan all along, an eschatological plan for Adam's life all along.

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And this also brings up another question, and I'm curious, and I don't know, hopefully

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I want to dig into this chapter more, and maybe you can answer this question or not, but the author talks about this covenant with Adam and these promises in the covenant about these things for Adam that we're talking about.

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I would like to see, you know, scriptural evidence, references for what he's seeing in Scripture, the claims that he's making about this covenant with Adam that God had promised him this deeper communion, this eschatological plan.

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I'd like to see those scripture references and where he's drawing that from. But the other question that we will probably never have answered, this side, that comes up because of this other question, you know, what would have happened to Adam if he perpetually had that or kept that proper relationship with God?

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And God had waiting for Adam or, you know, planned for Adam this deeper communion, this eschatological life, where he would have been in the state where he wouldn't have the ability to fall, wouldn't have the ability to sin.

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So just like we're looking forward to that time when we are in glory and have our glorified bodies, for us, the

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Scripture describes it as no more tears, no more sorrow, no more ability, no more temptation to sin, and that's what we're looking for.

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Eternal life. We're looking forward to that state, and that's the state Adam could have earned for himself.

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Here's the question that pops in my mind is, all right, well, for us, the door to that state, that eternal life state, that glorified state, is dead.

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What was the door for Adam? And fire me if you want to, but I was watching

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The Last Jedi yesterday. I don't think you would fire me over watching

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The Last Jedi, but maybe at the end, when Luke Skywalker was using the

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Force, he was levitating, and he was projecting himself on the battlefield so that he could distract the enemies.

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Sounds pretty pagan to me. It's pretty pagan. He was distracting the enemy so that his guys could escape.

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Then it shows us that he was in a different location on the island, levitating himself, projecting himself, but then that's when it was all said and done, when everybody was safe, his job was done.

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He did just like, was it, it was, who was their only hope?

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Obi -Wan. Just like Obi -Wan when he was battling Darth Vader.

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When Darth Vader swiped the lightsaber, he just vanished. And I think

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Yoda did the same thing, and then you had Luke Skywalker in The Last Jedi. His job was over, he was finished, he just vanished and was absorbed by the

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Force, I guess. And I'm sorry that I'm making the comparison, but I'm trying to rack my brain on what was

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Adam's door. I think I get what you're saying. We have a certain amount of time at which we're tested upon this earth before we die, and then judgment happens, as the

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Bible tells us. So what was Adam's time? If Adam wasn't going to die, when was Adam's time where his time of testing was over?

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Now, here's the thing. I don't know. But we'll go to some scripture to kind of lead us towards where we can answer as far as the scripture lets us answer, right?

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So Matthew 19, verse 16. Oh, by the way,

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Legacy Standard Bible, I'm loving it. It's fantastic. And, behold, someone came to him and said,

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Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may have eternal life? In other words, how do I earn eternal life through good works?

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He says, well, here's how you do it. Well, first he says, and he said to him, why are you asking me about what is good?

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There's only one who is good, but if you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments. So what do

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I do in order to earn eternal life? In order to earn eternal life, you have to keep the commandments. So he said to him, which ones?

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He said, you shall not murder, you shall not commit adultery, you shall not steal, you shall not bear false witness, honor your father or mother, and you shall love your neighbor as yourself.

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And the young man said to him, all of these things I have kept, what am I still lacking? And Jesus said to him, if you wish to be complete, go and sell your possessions and give to the poor.

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You will have treasure in heaven, come and follow me. And when the young man heard the statement, he went away grieving for he was one who owned much property.

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So this young man was told that if he was to come to the end of his life and having kept every single one of the commandments, he would find eternal life there waiting for him.

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The problem was that he was not going to find eternal life because as we know from the rest of scripture, there's an unrighteous, no, not one in the

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Psalms that talks about how we're knit together in our mother's womb, sinful, how we have sin from the very beginning.

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That avenue is as close to us because we have sin so that we cannot come to the end of our lives and find, we can't come to the end of our lives and find eternal life through our works because our works will come up short.

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You go to Luke 10, 25 through 29.

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It's another story. It's somewhat similar. It says, and it's the story of the

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Good Samaritan. It says, and behold, a scholar of the law stood up and was putting him to the test, saying,

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Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life? So same thing. He's asking, what do I do that may earn eternal life?

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He says, what is written in the law and how do you read it? So how do you earn eternal life through works is you keep the law of God, which also means that Adam had to have had the law of God written in his heart, which is the same law that Jesus points back to in Matthew, which was the 10 commandments, which is a summary of the moral law.

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And here, where he reads the preamble to the moral law as well, it says, you shall love the

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Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your strength, with your mind and your neighbor as yourself.

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It says, you answer correctly, do this and you will live. So in order to find eternal life, all we have to do is keep the law perfectly.

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Great. I won't have it. So there's a time where he's saying, if you want eternal life, if you want to eat of the tree of life, because you sit in that language that we find from the book of Revelation, where the tree of life is in the book of Revelation as well.

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Also in the garden. If we want that eternal life and eternal life doesn't mean just being alive.

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It means everything that is actual life, which is all the goodness and righteousness is found in God. If we want to have eternal, righteous life, then we have to keep the law.

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Now that means that at some point God was going to extend to Adam the tree of life, that he would have that deeper communion and fellowship with him.

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But we don't know how long that was going to be. Obviously it was longer than it took for him and Eve to sin, but we don't know how long that was going to be.

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And the Bible doesn't tell us. And to be fair, it really doesn't matter because, I mean, what good would he do?

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If he would have just held out 20 more minutes, we'd have been all right, but we're not all right. So what do we do? And that's why the whole,

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I wouldn't say the whole purpose, but one of the purposes through the covenant of works is to show us that having fallen into sin, we cannot go back that way and find eternal life because we cannot keep the law of God.

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And since we cannot keep the law of God, we're not going to find eternal life that way. Even though it's still there for us, eternal life through works, it's not something that we can do because there's none righteous at all.

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And so he, throughout the chapter and throughout the scriptures, he kind of pulls out that idea of the first Adam and the second

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Adam, where you find life and where you could have found life, where we fell and where Christ succeeds and a bunch of cool stuff like that.

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Do you think that's why Paul makes such an emphasis that asking the question, is the law bad?

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Is the law sinful? And he'll say, may it never be because that's wrong. And yeah, in fact, it's not,

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I mean, the law leads on that suite. We need to post the link for that.

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You know, it, it bears the image of God. It, it teaches us how to bear the image of God and it, at least the law leads to life, bearing

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God's image in that way. Right. Leads to life. We just can't do it. Right.

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But sin, sin, seeing an opportunity in the law rose up and killed me.

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No, no, I didn't know what it was to covet, but the law telling me not to covet sin.

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So like, Hey, go ahead and covet. It's good stuff. You'll enjoy it. And the end of it just leads to death.

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Yeah. Yeah. Would Adam have seen it that way in his non fallen state?

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Like see what way? So, so Paul says I had not known sin, but by the law.

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And you gave an example of that. I would have known coveting. So what would

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Adam have seen it use the law in that way? I guess it would be hard for him to, because well, he didn't have that concept.

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Well, Adam didn't have sin. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Sin was there. And as outside of him, it was put upon him and through temptation through his wife and on her through Satan, but it wasn't something that they had initially.

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So it's, it's, it's slightly, slightly different. Yeah. But sin still active and trying to destroy what is good and beautiful.

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Um, would sin would have, would have saw the law, which, which

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Adam had written in his heart, being the image bearer of God. Um, he would have sin would have seen the opportunity to make him fall and what it would have done.

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So Adam, um, he should have noticed that this is contrary.

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This is other than what is been stamped and imprinted in my heart.

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Um, and in fact, it sounds like from, from especially the, the, the, uh, it was a first Timothy where it says that Eve was deceived, but Adam, uh, send willingly.

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He wasn't, Adam wasn't deceived, but he send willingly. It seemed like Adam did see that, that he did see that, uh, that something wasn't right, but he just went ahead and did it anyway.

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Yeah. I was thinking about this question too. Um, and I think it just left me.

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Um, oh yeah. Let me ask you this, uh, concerning the law that this chapter is about the, the covenant's legal character and reward.

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And, and as we're talking, listening to you, I'm explaining these things, other questions coming to my mind.

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So I'm thinking about the law and as we've talked about the law and we've, we've rightly said that the law could have led to life if Adam hadn't, hadn't sinned, hadn't fallen.

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Um, so post justification in a person's life after salvation, post justification, um, is there a sense in which the law can, can lead to life?

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I know the Psalm, Psalm says, uh, the law of the Lord is perfect and converting the soul.

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Um, but is there not in the sense of justification because, you know, we, we ruin that, right.

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But is there a sense in which the law can still lead, lead to life? Uh, yeah.

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Uh, the, the Bible says that the words of the Lord are pure words. Um, like silver tried in a furnace, uh, like, like refined seven times.

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Um, the Bible says that the, the, that the word of the Lord is, is a lamp into my feet and a light into my path.

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Um, it, it leads us along the path of righteousness and it leads us toward Christ.

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Um, in, in Romans seven, it says, when I do what I don't want to do,

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I agree with the law that the law is good. And what that means is that when I do something that's wrong and I agree that it's wrong,

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I'm agreeing with the law that I'm falling on the wrong side of things.

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Um, I have broken the law. And so since that law is good and right, and I am wrong,

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I need to be reconciled to my savior. So it pushes you back towards Christ. So the law is, is good when it's used goodly.

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We'll say goodly. I like, I like George Bush that I can use words like that.

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Uh, it's good when it's used well, when it, when it's, but it's, it's also not a place where we find, it's not a place where we earn eternal life, right?

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But it is a place where we find life because it's, it's, it's, it's the moral character of God revealed to us in his law.

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So it's good. The problem is not the law. The problem is sin. Right. In the negative sense, the law, the law can lead us to life by its condemnation or, or showing us our condemnation.

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And in a positive sense, it can lead us to life because it leads us to Christ. Right. It shows us how, how to live in, in relationship to a

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Holy God. Yeah. Yeah. I appreciated, um,

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I appreciated this part. Um, we, we often talk about the negative sense of the law.

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Oh, don't do this. Don't do this. Um, things that we must avoid. Um, but he brings out the positive sense of Adam's fulfilling the law where, where God told him be fruitful, multiply, fill the earth to do it, um, have dominion.

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Uh, God has Adam, he says to conquer the earth as his representative king.

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Yep. Good stuff. Yep. Yep. Yep. So I'm going to, I want to step back, let you lead us

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Okay. Uh, then let's go in this direction. Um, obedience to the law through Adam, um, would have led to a, a fuller communion with God.

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Now let me back up because I'm just saying stuff. It would have been brought about as we said before, because the image of God would have had, uh, or does have more to it than, than just a, a physical creaturely relationship in the, uh, in the natural physical realm, more than just walking in Eden, but he would have been able to actually commune with God on a spiritual level as well in the spiritual realm of existence.

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Um, I'm gonna have to go to some scripture on that here in a little bit, but I want to get to another point first.

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Um, the way in which Adam was going to be given that reward was through the, uh, was through the tree of life.

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Now we see that it was going to be through the tree of life because in the fall, God says, well, we can't let

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Adam reach out and grab the tree of life. Lest he re eat it and, uh, and, and live.

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Um, because he would have, he would have gained something that he shouldn't have had.

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Um, you can speculate on what, what that means. If it would have been perpetually being in a state of evil, no possibility of redemption or whatever it is, we're not going there.

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But what I want to bring up is that it's, it's a set there, there was that tree of life he would be given of to eat.

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And that fruit of that tree would have been what brought him life.

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Now, this is really important because I don't think there's, there's a pomegranate out there or apple or whatever.

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That's good enough to give you the everlasting righteousness of God. Um, but there was a link and a union between what the tree of life represented and God's righteousness itself,

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Christ himself, God himself. So that, uh, when he ate of the tree of life, he was partaking in the perfection of God or would have been partaking in the perfection of God, which is why when we speak of eternal life in the book of revelation, it speaks of it in terms of us eating from the tree of life again, um, which is wild because, and this is,

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I'm going to just say a little something that we're going to move back, but as well, because in the new

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Testament with the second Adam, we're not given a piece of fruit to eat.

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Uh, we're given, um, the bread and the wine, which represent the body and blood of Christ that link us to that sacrifice laid down for us where he kept the law, fulfilled the covenant of works as we could not, and then graciously gave us the benefits of his, uh, his death, burial and resurrection so that his body that was broken was truly broken for us.

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And the benefits of it is given to us at the supper in the same way that the blood was shed and the benefits of it are given to us in the supper.

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Now we could, we could, and have, and probably will some more discuss how that happens, which will be fun.

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But it's, it's amazing that, that even in the old, the, the covenant of works, you had that sacrament of the tree of life in the old covenant.

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You had the sacraments of circumcision and the, uh, which marks you off for the, the people of God and, uh, the

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Passover, which showed you the, the, the saving, um, from, from the angel of death by the, the, the, the

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Paschal lamb. And then in the new Testament, you have the sacraments of the Lord's supper and baptism, which mark off those who are

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God's people through baptism and the sign of our justification in life that comes through Christ shed blood and his broken body.

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It's an amazing, uh, thing that there is that sacramental, uh, unity that runs throughout scripture where we are given things from God that lead to our benefit.

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Um, always coming directly from the hand of God to us and not because of some weird voodoo mumbo jumbo.

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It's always because of Christ's righteousness that's given to us as something that God's done for us the whole way, the whole way through.

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Um, now before I move on, would you like to say something to that?

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Two things that that's probably one of the better explanations that I've heard. Um, I want to say that it's just Dan and I on the truth and love podcast, but we also chat with, um, the other guys in the truth and love network.

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And like Dan said, we talk about the Lord's supper and baptism, the sacraments and, um, how all that works.

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And we try to glean from scripture. Um, that was probably one of the better explanations that I heard from, from your, your point of view to make it understandable.

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Um, and, and second, I'm, I'm really glad that you, you made that connection between, um, the, the

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Lord's supper, because when you were first started talking about, um, the, the tree of life, that's where my mind kept going was, was the

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Lord's supper. I kept going to the Lord's supper and Jesus being the tree of life. And of course this beside the point, this is speculation, but you know, we, we use grape wine, we use grape juice, but that's from a vine.

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We're talking about a tree here, a tree of life. Uh, we, we described the cross as a tree and I, and I'm thinking the berry that comes to my mind that comes from a tree is the elderberry.

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So maybe, maybe it was an elderberry that was, that was a fruit from the tree of life.

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I doubt it, but maybe, who knows?

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God does delight in using the ordinary to bring about his wonderful purposes.

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Um, yeah. Uses us. We're simply ordinary or less than. Yeah. But I appreciate the explanation.

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Yeah. Um, so one of the things that, that people will probably have questions about is how do you know that, that this was

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God's plan all along? That, that could, that's really important.

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Like you can, you can draw the connection from the image of God. You can say, okay, well, there's something else that he could have been a part of over here, but you haven't really proven it.

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You just kind of alluded to it, showed how it may work, which probably got ahead of ourselves, but back up, uh, take a look at some scripture that actually talks about how we were created for more than what we, uh, we have here.

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Um, more than just the existence we have, be it sinless uh, as Adam had or sinful as we have now, or more than as we'll have in the future.

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So run over to, uh, Psalm eight, um,

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Psalm eight in verse six, four, four, six, something like that.

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Get there. This is a newer Bible. All the pages are still sticking together.

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It's great. Uh, let's see. Psalm eight, four, four through six, um, which is quoted later and given, given us some more detail, uh, in the book of Hebrews, but we'll read, uh, this, this here, uh, verse four, what is man that you remember him and the son of man that you care for him?

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Uh, so what is, what is actually back up a little bit? Uh, this is

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David looking at creation. It says how wonderful the Lord is.

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Everyone should praise him. Uh, verse three, when I see your heavens, the work of your fingers, the moon and the stars, which you have established.

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So I look at all of creation. Everything is so great and wonderful that you've done. What is man that you remember him and the son of man that you care for him?

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So why are you looking at us in a special light? It says, yet, you know, though, almost assuming though we're nothing special, we're just a part of your creation.

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Yet you have made him a little lower than the angels.

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So we're made lower than the angels. So you've got God, angels, mankind made him a little lower than angels.

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And you crown him with glory and majesty. You make him to rule over the works of your hands.

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You have put all things under his feet, all the sheep and oxen, and also the animals of the field, the birds of the heavens and the fish of the sea, whatever passes through the paths of the sea.

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Oh, Yahweh our Lord, how majestic is your name in all the earth. So for a time, we were made lower than the angels that we would be there less than the angels.

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Now, this is what's really incredible. Because when you read through this psalm from David's perspective, he's not talking about Christ.

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He's talking about creation. And yet he is talking about Christ. When he's talking about God's purpose in creation for mankind, there was a purpose in creation that Adam did not fulfill.

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And yet Christ does. So look at Hebrews two. Let's see

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Hebrews. Oh, while you're looking that up, I couldn't help but notice that in verse five, yeah, you made him a little lower.

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Your version legacy standard says angels. Yeah. NASB says

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God, but the original is Elohim.

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Yeah. Elohim is plural for God. So it'd be

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God's lowercase G or angels. Yeah. What was his name that we talked about before?

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The heavenly council. Is it Michael that did all the work on angels that died not too long ago?

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I don't remember. I can't recall his name. I've slept since then. Hebrews what?

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Hebrews two. Okay. Hebrews two, starting with verse one, chapter one, verse 14, he's talking about the angels and how we are related to them some way.

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He says this. Are they not all ministering spirits sent to render service for the sake of those who will inherit salvation?

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So they're not ministering spirits sent for our sake. For this reason, we must pay closer attention to what we have heard lest we drift away.

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For if the word spoken through angels proved unalterable, never trespassing, disobedience received a just penalty, how shall we escape if we neglect so great a salvation?

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So there's a salvation that has a relationship to our place in the creational hierarchy.

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That salvation first spoken by the Lord was confirmed to us by those who heard.

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God also testifying them both by signs and wonders and various miracles and by the gifts of the Holy Spirit according to his will.

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Then in verse five, it picks up and it starts quoting that Psalm that we just read.

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It says, for he did not subject to angels the world to come concerning which we are speaking.

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But as someone has testified somewhere, what is man that you remember him or the son of man that you are concerned about him, you have made him for a little while lower than the angels.

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You have crowned him with glory and honor and have appointed him over the works of your hands.

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You have put all things in subjection under his feet. That was the place of mankind as we were created.

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We were created lower than the angels for a time. And part of what

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Adam was going to be able to accomplish in keeping the law through the covenant of works was an elevation to being higher than angels.

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So having a status higher than the angels, and I would argue a connection to God in a way that we hadn't yet had, but that we as Christians now view for ourselves in the future.

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He would have gained that through works. Now look here, for in subjecting all things to him, he left nothing that is not subject to him.

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But now we do not see all things subjected to him, speaking of Christ, but we do see him who was made for a little while lower than the angels,

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Jesus, because of the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honor, so that by the grace of God, he might taste death for everyone.

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For it was fitting for him, for whom are all things and through whom are all things, and bringing many sons to glory, to perfect the author of their salvation through sufferings.

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For both he who sanctifies and those who are being sanctified are all of one, for which reason he is not ashamed to call them brothers.

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Where Adam failed to keep the covenant of works and gain a higher standing with God and a deeper, more precious communion with him,

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Jesus came being incarnate in the earth, taking on flesh, not ashamed to call us brothers, and he being made a little bit lower than the angels, which was our created place, then came and lived a perfect life, bringing to us salvation, and then by grace, giving us what

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Adam lost in the fall, so that we would have eternal life, and we would have a deeper communion with God because of Christ's work upon the cross, and his incarnation, and gathering us together with him.

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So that way, when we are being made, as it says in second

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Peter, partakers of the divine nature, we are being brought together with the

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God -man, with Jesus, and being brought along by his grace to a place that we shunned, and gave up, and just hated in the beginning when we turned our back on God and fell into sin, which

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I think is incredible on Christ's part, and incredibly informative when we think about what exactly

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Adam had to gain by being obedient in the garden. Yeah, and I was going to say something similar as well.

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That's the amazing part of this story, is that God created

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Adam and Eve in that state, a little lower than angels like you described from Hebrews, and made this covenant.

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He put his law on their hearts for him to bear his image, gave him the law so that he could, and made him in that proper relationship with himself, and gave him the ability to carry out that proper relationship with him.

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But of course, we know what happened. Adam fell and brought it on the whole of creation with the rest of mankind, but you're bringing out this story from Hebrews and the

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Psalms, and this is about Christ. So what this is telling me, and why this is such an amazing part of the story, is that God made this covenant.

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Adam broke that covenant, and that could have been it. Could have.

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But God had... For the fallen angels, it was. We don't have all the ins and outs of what was going on with them, but for them, they had no chance at redemption.

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Right, yeah. Could have been just like them. But here's what's so amazing,

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God had this eschatological plan for man, and though man messed it up, he sent his one and only son.

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Yep. So when you ask the question, what would have happened if Adam would have kept the covenant of works?

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You don't have to guess at it. What would have happened is everything that's happening through Christ now, except I would argue that this way it's better, because now we have

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Emmanuel, God with us. Divinity and humanity have been brought together in Christ in a way that is incomprehensible, a way that we're never gonna fully understand.

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It's just amazing that somehow we have taken...

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Let me rephrase it. Somehow God has taken one of the most ridiculous acts of rebellion, the most ridiculous act of rebellion in all of creation, and shown his incredible mercy and grace through it by giving us more than what was,

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I would argue, more than what was promised in the first place. And more because he accomplished it for us, and he became one of us without diminishing himself.

46:31

And that's just fantastic. Yeah, that's amazing. I wanted to get your take on a word that he uses similar to where we were using the qualifier or adjective proper relationship with God.

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We used that in our previous podcast. The author here, Harrison Perkins, he uses a different word.

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Once he uses the word, he uses it a couple more times. But another way that he describes

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Adam is he uses, instead of proper relationship, he uses the word upright.

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On page 54, Adam in his original upright state could fulfill the law.

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And then page 58, since God made Adam upright, just, and perfect, he could live in such a way as to obtain even a higher righteousness.

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I know this is right off the cuff, but what do you think he means by using the word upright?

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Oh, that was when man became upright.

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He came from Cro -Magnon man and then was made upright. No, sorry.

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I couldn't keep a straight face on that one. Upright means righteous. It means without fault.

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There's no sin there. He's one who walks around upright. So he was on the right side of the law. Think of it as upholding righteousness.

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When you think upright, it's upholding the righteous standard was something that he was upholding for a time.

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And even in this scenario, and I would like to flesh this out a little bit more, but even in this scenario, we talked about in the doctrines of grace and the sovereignty of God being reformed.

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We championed the sovereignty of God and his power control over his creation.

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And so all of glory goes to God because he's the one who saves. He's the one who works in us.

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All credit goes to God. But even in this story, in this scenario, we describe

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Adam as being upright, but in a way, God made

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Adam himself upright. Just like he makes us, he saves us, justifies us.

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He makes us upright in Christ. Originally, it wasn't anything that Adam did.

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Adam didn't exist. And all of a sudden, Adam existed and God made him upright.

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So all glory goes to God in all scenarios. And it's just an amazing thing to think about.

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Yeah, it's incredible. One of the neat things about all of this is that while Adam was our head, his wife was there faithfully ministering with him in the garden.

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If you think of the Garden of Eden and the way it's described, it's described as a place where there's four rivers flowing from it, water running downhill.

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Eden was elevated. It was a mountain, a high plateau, something like that.

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We see all the time where it talks about God's mountain, God's holy hill, the place where God rests,

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Mount of Olives, where he went up. The place where God sets up his places of worship are on high places, which is why the pagan taking of high places and worshiping on high places and under trees and stuff is just ridiculous because it's taken away from the glory of God.

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As he set him there in the garden, the Garden was... The Land of Eden was where God dwelled.

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The Garden was a special place where he had communion with mankind. And the rest of the world was where Adam was supposed to go and make it look like Eden, was to make it look wonderful.

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And all of these things were his work and his worship as he was walking around in the garden and tending to things and making it look beautiful and glorious.

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And his wife was right there with him, ministering with him. And it's just incredible to watch us as humans to see that even today, we have a way of taking something good and messing with it.

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That God has set up something great and glorious. And it'll be wonderful to watch sin finally dealt with and gone away, to see everything that we have to look forward to, everything that we squandered.

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When we're placed up in a perfect situation of worship with our

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God. And it'll be a great thing to watch as the sacrifice of Christ is made known to the world and our tears are wiped away, sin is gone, and the pain and suffering of this life is no more.

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It'll be great. I don't know why

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I started saying that. It's good stuff. I like it. Don't feel bad about saying that.

53:06

No, I guess the last portion

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I would draw from the chapter for tonight, I was looking at this statement.

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It was just kind of an echo of what we've already been talking about. God created humanity for an eschatological communion with him in glory.

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But that incorruptible life is the consequent reward of justification. It's interesting to think about God creating us in that sense.

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If you go back to the beginning of the podcast, I said there were two things.

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The one was the question about Adam and how he entered the state. And the second one was

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God creating us with this orientation that there's more.

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He even created Adam in that way, that there's more. So there's a reason.

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I'm incomplete. The author, Harrison, uses that terminology, incomplete.

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Even if Adam would have stayed in that perpetual, proper relationship with God, his life would have still remained incomplete because he did not have an incorruptible nature that we will have.

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So we have this eschatological orientation from the beginning that there's more.

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And I think we can see that in unbelievers, because God created all mankind.

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So I think we can see it in all of man. There's more. I think

54:52

I'm thinking about a Stephen Curtis Chapman song.

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What was the name of that song? I can't remember it. I think I liked it back in the day.

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But there's more to this life, I think, was something about. I think

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I'm close. There's more in this life. You're probably right. I think I'm close.

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But I'm just thinking about unconverted man. I'm thinking about unbelievers and their pursuit of things.

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I'm thinking about all men, unbelievers and believers, and our drive, our drive for more, our drive for more excellence in what we do.

55:45

Yeah. And all of that goes back to mankind reaching, grasping, and groping for the things that we lost when we broke the covenant of works.

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Romans 1 says we do so by reaching out to four -footed beasts and things that fly through the air and all sorts of idols and idolatry.

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Knowing the truth of God, we suppress it with our own unrighteousness. And all of the pain and striving that we have in the world, all the negativity and evil comes from a grasping after that extra righteousness, the extra life that we are never going to be able to get.

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Some people go at it through this religion or that religion. Some people even come to Christ, but come to Him for the wrong reasons.

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They're trying to grab something. What they don't realize is that the only thing that we need is

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Christ, and that having Christ, we can have that satisfaction. So the only hope that humanity has is to trust in Jesus Christ, to trust in Him, dying on the cross, laying in the grave, raising again, being that second

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Adam, the one who kept the covenant of works that we broke, and then giving us the benefits of that covenant of works through His grace, because we're not earning it.

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He's giving it to us as a free gift, calling us to Himself, saying, put away your idols, put away your sin, put away your grasping and trying to earn perfection and happiness and striving for that idyllic utopia and whatever else it is that you're going after in your mind's eye.

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Put all that away and seek after me. Seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness, and all these things will be added unto you.

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Just quit and trust in Christ. And in Christ, we find Him to be a perfect Savior. And in Him, we find riches and blessings more than we could ever hope for.

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The Bible calls it a pearl of great price. The one who finds it sells everything he has, gives it all up and goes after him, buys the field and sits on it because he knows the wealth that he finds there.

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And that's what we find in Christ, especially through His grace, as we find in the gospel. Yeah. Beautifully put.

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And I don't see anything wrong with embracing that part of our nature, that God has oriented us toward something more.

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But like with everything else, it's about perspective. And we can't have the right perspective until we hear the gospel that Dan just proclaimed and surrender and submit to that gospel, to the

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Christ of that gospel, to where we can have a proper perspective on embracing that orientation to something more, to that incorruptible life and striving in this life to attain

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Christ's glory and God's glory and His majesty and His kingdom and all the works that we have.

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There's more to obtain, but it's for His glory and it's for Christ.

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And once we cross over, once we enter into that state, if we've heard the message that Dan just proclaimed to us, we will have obtained that more, that incorruptible life that God has promised in His covenant with Adam, but it's through His Son, Jesus Christ.

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And as Dan just proclaimed and as I proclaim tonight, as we end, we all must submit to the

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King, repenting of our sins and putting our faith and trust in Christ. And Dan and I both would, and that's the whole point of us going through these books, going through scripture, is to point everyone that would hear us to Christ.

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So Dan, I appreciate you helping me understand this book and walking through it with me.

01:00:03

We appreciate all you watching. Let me pray for us as we close. Father, we thank you for our time together.

01:00:10

Thank you for this medium of social media and internet that we can communicate with one another.

01:00:18

We pray that you would receive the glory, that Jesus is exalted and people, you will be saving souls and that we will be looking setting our eyes on things above, embracing our eschatological nature, knowing that there's more to come.

01:00:44

And it's because of your loving kindness that you didn't treat us like the fallen angels, but you have given us an opportunity for life through your

01:00:53

Son. And in His name we pray, Jesus Christ. Amen. Amen.

01:00:59

Dan, I appreciate you. Thank you all for watching. We appreciate you as well. And as always, remember that Jesus is our

01:01:07

King. Go live in the victory of Christ. Go speak with the authority of Christ and go share the gospel of Christ.