TiL- Reformed Covenant Theology pt 4

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August 6, 2024

Join Dan and Rob as they continue the review of the book, Reformed Covenant Theology. We will look at chapter 4- Applying the Covenant of Works.

Covenant Theology pt 5

00:01: Welcome to the truth in love podcast. Thank you for joining us tonight. We are continuing our study in Reform covenant theology stick with us
00:15: Welcome to the truth in love podcast Join this Baptist and Presbyterian as they discuss theology and its application to life
00:24: Together, let's seek the Son and glorify the Father Stay tuned as we speak truth in love
00:32: Again, welcome to the program I'm glad you're enjoying it I'm really thinking about how
00:39: I need to update it and change it again, but a little British guy gets me every time
00:46: But yeah tonight we are continuing in Reform covenant theology by here.
00:53: You got some reflection there by Harrison Perkins. There we go There we go. We're in chapter 4
01:01: And it's good to be back with you, how you doing Dan I'm good I'm good.
01:08: I'm tired I'm good. How are you doing?
01:15: I'm feeling the exact same way Got we've got work and we've got all the things that we that we do outside of work and I know both of us are preparing for sermons and praise the
01:31: Lord for that We both of us are going back to school I'm trying
01:36: Well, I I'm in I'm in but I'm trying to do it.
01:42: Yeah, I got my my acceptance letter Friday okay for I'll be be instead of doing my
01:53: Master of Arts and Biblical Studies. I moved on over into the Master Divinity Program at Carolina University Carolina University, yeah over there in Winston -Salem
02:06: Okay Used to be Piedmont Baptist College and then Piedmont International University after that Okay.
02:14: Okay. And It is it's online but it's also a physical college as well that used to be
02:27: Home and they were one of the the big Independent fundamental
02:32: Baptist type colleges back in back in the day, you know on par with Bob Jones and In Pensacola, they've they've gone.
02:42: I Don't want to say soft But they're no longer King James only they a
02:52: Lot there their college their other their school. The university has a business program a leadership program education nursing
03:00: Biology, but it has a divinity program as well Few years back. They absorbed
03:05: Tennessee Temple University when it closed down John Wesley University when it closed down or John was a college
03:13: I forget but they And there was another one something I afford I think but when they shut down they kind of absorbed them and They've actually been doing pretty good
03:23: They were in this real small campus in Winston -Salem for a long time And I just got notification right as I was, you know getting into school that they they purchased a new
03:34: A new facility and it's big and nice Apparently they're doing pretty well, but the quality of the education is great they are sort of a dispensational
03:46: Baptist, so not at all where I'm coming from but but the one of the reasons why
03:53: I like the school is Is that they that for the students They have a shorter but very very orthodox statement of faith that they make you hold to Then they let you know where the professors are coming from So even if you don't come from the same perspective, you know where they're coming from and then you can you get some good back -and -forth
04:14: To where you're really challenging your beliefs you can challenge them and there's no respectfully
04:20: Of course, and it helps you kind of work some stuff out figure some stuff out. So it's a pretty good school Let's I mean that's fantastic Yeah, I'm only like eight or nine credits from getting my
04:32: MDIS Or eight or nine classes. I'm sorry not credits. Oh, okay. I was gonna say you are close
04:40: What yeah, I've got well, I've got 45. Let's see 45 earned credits and a couple more that are gonna transfer over and then
04:51: Yeah, I've only got a few more after that. So go team Well, I'm I'm just starting
05:00: I've been on a educational hiatus for a long time and I'm just starting back a few decades
05:11: But I'm I'm trying to fit it in I'm finding it difficult, but I'm trying to fit it in Where I can thankfully, you know, the
05:21: Lord has Has worked in hearts of men to offer Seminaries that are more
05:32: Financial friendly and At your own pace, but yeah,
05:38: I Was accepting then and I started forged theological seminary
05:45: For anybody that's curious and it's it's an online they do have Terms or a
05:57: Limit, you know, it's it's not you don't have forever to work on one course. So, you know, there's there's that So, you know, and I appreciate that it helps keep you accountable.
06:08: It pushes you a little bit So you don't drag it out But I feel like most people who are going to seminary and I have the mindset.
06:18: Anyway, they they want to get in there and work hard and Accomplish it and I would love it.
06:25: It's something I would love to accomplish the I'm going for masters in theology and I'd love to accomplish it for the glory of God to help me understand scripture better, you know a better minister
06:40: So we'll see. We'll see You just keep on trucking along if you need any help you let somebody else know
06:51: No, if anything you let me know I'll be right there for you. I appreciate it if you can only read the material for me
06:59: I could I don't know what good that do you but I could oh Well, I have
07:07: And hopefully we'll pick something a little bit more simple next time but in addition to the seminary reading
07:16: Dan picked out a book which and it's a great book. It's a really good book. It's by Harrison Fergus like I said before it's reformed covenant theology and And I'm reading that Dan is he had started it for I did he's ahead of me, but he so he's coming back
07:33: Meeting me where I am, but I'm reading it with him and we're on chapter 4 applying the
07:39: Covenant of Works and where the Covenant of Works is is the covenant that God made with Adam at the beginning right
07:48: Can you give a brief summary of the Covenant of Works? Yeah, the Covenant of Works is that covenant that was made between God and Adam at creation that if Adam were to be
08:04: Computer just went in sleep mode. Anyway, if I won't I won't go to sleep. Maybe my computer will
08:10: I won't Maya if Adam were to be faithful with what
08:15: God had put him in the garden to do to tend the garden and Not eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil
08:22: That he would be given from the tree of life and gain a greater deeper relationship with God we believe that to be the same relationship that we will gain as as Believers in in the consummation.
08:40: So after we die and our bodies are raised and they're glorified in our family we no longer have the ability to sin and every you know, tear is wiped away and everything is is good and pure That's what
08:56: Adam could have achieved through through obedience and he would been gifted You know the
09:05: Immortality of body and and Incredible Communion and fellowship with God.
09:14: Mm -hmm. I think you mentioned something like that in this chapter. He says the goal is still the same
09:21: But but the means in which it's acquired is different. So right. Yeah. So well
09:26: Adam was able to do it by works Mm -hmm We are not so when
09:32: Adam failed we all failed with him. So since we say since he's in we sinned
09:39: You know by coming into the world corrupt and then sending ourselves So we can't keep the law of God anymore
09:46: We can't do the things that God would want us to do anymore because we've already sinned and our sinners by nature
09:53: But we can be gifted That very same Experience of eating from the tree of life that was promised to Adam through Christ As Christ has come and lived a perfect life died in our place was buried risen again
10:14: Seated at the right hand of the Father now. He gives us these good gifts of Salvation and the spirit to to work in us that we will
10:27: Eventually receive the fullness of what Adam could have gotten through works, but we don't receive it through works
10:33: We receive it through grace, right? Right and that seems to be one of the the beautiful things about studying
10:40: Covenant theology or reformed covenant theology. Is that? Reading through this material you begin to see the the continuity
10:50: Throughout We're God's plan working out When when
10:56: I say the goal is still the same so God's God's plan and God's goal, which was
11:05: Everlasting rest everlasting close communion with himself Between us and God that that goal is still the same, but we messed it up.
11:14: So therefore there had to be this this God Himself coming coming in to play
11:23: Coming into time coming into the world to rescue us because he's the only one that could fulfill that covenant of works
11:31: And you don't see that continuity in the in the dispensational type theology
11:38: Well you do but it's a different sort of continuity. It's not a covenantal continuity it's a continuity of Of God working in in the world
11:55: But it's disjointed in that the way that he works in the world is different through different dispensations
12:02: So he's been testing us in different ways all along the way we've been We've been failing
12:09: But it kind of makes you wonder like at one point if we were to have succeeded would that of You know would that have changed things
12:20: I don't think that's the case and I don't necessarily think dispensationalists would think that's the case because they still read you know
12:27: Genesis 6 where it says that you know the thoughts of man were always evil continually
12:33: They still read in Romans 3 that no none of sin no not one.
12:39: Everybody's like like an open grave Venom of snakes is on their lips. You still got people like John MacArthur So, you know,
12:48: I don't know. I don't think that they would they would go that far And especially in the newer iterations of dispensationalism
12:57: They don't have multiple ways of salvation like you could Probably pull out of the
13:03: Schofield the first Schofield Bible and maybe some stuff from Darby You don't have that anymore.
13:09: They don't they don't they don't go there Yeah But yeah, I mean there's a little bit of continuity and that God's working but he's working
13:18: To prove us faithless and himself faithful the whole time Yeah, which
13:24: I guess covenant theology does the same thing, but it's a much different way of showing it, right?
13:31: Well, the first sentence that I highlighted to kind of summarize part of what we were talking about is is on that first first page
13:37: Believers today should remember that the covenant is still where we find ourselves before God walking with him in Christ's grace
13:47: That's that's where we find ourselves today The our our representative which is something he talks about in this chapter
13:53: God God made us to have a representative It was first Adam and he blew it so that blew it for everybody
14:02: But then our second representative God himself coming in the flesh Fulfilled this this covenant of works that that man
14:10: Mankind could not fulfill and so therefore we enjoy this this communion This this covenant is fulfilled in Christ and therefore we can walk with him by Christ grace
14:22: Mm -hmm Which is which is a beautiful thing a humbling thing.
14:28: Oh, yeah, it pours out gratitude That he would rescue us Yeah, it's it's good stuff it's good stuff so it's it's wild to me that I Guess it shouldn't be
14:47: But it's it's kind of it's kind of wild that the someone would think to apply the covenant of works
14:55: No, I've been reading off and on There's a for there's an a -volume said there's only four of them out right now they're translating the other four
15:05: By a guy named van Maastricht It's a fantastic systematic theology but one of the things that he does in every head of doctrine that he goes over is
15:16: He talks about you know, where do you get it from Scripture? He defends it Theologically he answers the questions of critics, but then the last thing he does before he moves on He applies it
15:30: So every head of doctrine, you know, so God's omniscience. He'll apply that to the life of the believer
15:38: The divine simplicity he'll apply that to the believer. So when you come to something like the covenant of works
15:47: I Don't know I guess I always thought well that was something that had been done and failed and And so why would
15:55: I try to apply that to my life since I'm not under that covenant or Since I fall on the wrong sides as a is a covenant breaker of the covenant of works
16:06: Why would I try to apply that to my life? But he made some really good points in here first off applying it to Adam and then showing how
16:17: Well, not everything that applies to Adam applies us because there is a little bit of difference a lot of it applies to us because who we we fell in Adam, so we can find a lot to apply to ourselves as we've fallen in Adam and then we can just like we can apply things to ourselves as We are risen with with Christ and in grace
16:41: Kind of brings that that whole thing where Adam fell Christ is the second Adam.
16:46: So, you know, what do we do in the meantime? Mm -hmm. So yeah, I just thought that was those an interesting concept.
16:52: And so it's pretty neat to to apply You know, what is a covenant of works in? the garden
16:59: You know stuff from Genesis Wanda like 3 -1
17:05: What does that have to do with me? I thought that was really cool well that reminds me part of this chapter and You can help me out as I try to I'm looking for it.
17:15: I'm trying to remember as well But how does it apply to me how does the covenant of works apply to us to me?
17:21: in it part of this chapter that that Comes to mind is he talks about how we we approach it in two different ways.
17:32: He's well he says Because Adam is our representative and the covenant works was made with with him and God It was in Adams nature to Obey God That was in his nature.
17:51: So they're there. We're post Adam. We're post fall. So we have a fallen nature So our to The two places where we stumble when it comes to the law
18:03: And the covenant of works is he says first is legalism and it may make sense that that we would
18:12: We are grabbed we gravitate towards legalism because it was in our nature It was in our nature to obey
18:19: God and follow the law To to have that relationship with him. It's just been all messed up because of the fallen cause of sin right, right almost like You ever see one of the little robots where you crank him up on the back and they walks and And then you see him where he walks and he'll fall over but he's still walking he's just falling over he's not going anywhere
18:43: It's it's almost like that. We have fallen into sin. We can't get up But here we are still kicking and screaming like we can do something about it when when we can't we're just sitting there, you know
18:53: Walking nowhere and doing it doing it quickly running out of steam, you know before we'll be Picked up and tossed away
19:01: Except for the grace of God to give us the strength to be stood upright. Yeah Well that second second place that we stumble when it comes the covenant works and our relationship with it in a relationship with obeying
19:14: God and his law He says his antinomianism and that of course that does come from our fallen nature our fallen state
19:23: And he says what is Antinomianism is full rebellion against our natural programming
19:32: We gravitate to obeying God because it was in originally in our nature and so there's some of that I guess still left in us, but the antinomianism or Without law a law a law of our of ourselves
19:50: Is full rebellion against our natural programming our rebellion against? That that gravitation to obey
19:57: God, please God, yeah, we can we can't get right either way And you ever seen that show
20:05: Parks and Recreation Know what you're talking about? All right.
20:10: Well there if you haven't seen it There's a there the local government for Pawnee, Indiana, right and there a sister city was somewhere in Venezuela Anyway, they have these
20:20: Venezuelan people come over and the Venezuelan folks are part of a dictatorship And they're really really rude to the people at the local government in,
20:29: Indiana At one point is that I don't understand that you got the
20:34: Venezuelan guy up there and you know, it's a comedy show So he's telling all the things that so I don't understand why you people are acting like this like in Venezuela you go right to jail
20:44: They said you you overcooked chicken right to jail undercooked fish right to jail see overcooked undercoat right to jail
20:50: That's like us, you know, you try to try to gain righteousness by the law
20:55: Right to jail, you know, you're not going anywhere you try to to live your own life of rebellion right to jail
21:02: Overcooked undercooked right to jail. It's the way it is with us We can't get right no matter which way we turn which is why we need grace instead of words
21:13: No, there's there's a whole you gotta look that one up that's a it's a funny cliff He started off showing through through creation
21:27: How there was a pattern of of Work being completed and then there being a blissful rest in the end
21:36: So he showed how how in creation God had worked for six days to create everything that we see, you know, the the plants and the the birds and rocks and planets and stars the crab nebula and everything
21:57: Created mankind at the end of that. He rested and he rested because He was to enjoy the fruit of his labor and He showed how how
22:13: The first thing he gave Adam to do on day eight was hey you've got work to do and You've seen the pattern where I've been working and then
22:24: I took my rest One day your work will be complete as well When your work is complete you will enter into a full rest now.
22:35: I don't know exactly what point that would have been But It would have it would have had to have done what with Adams obedience to Christ or Yeah to Christ to God As he
22:51: Didn't eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil as he did work to you know Name the animals and and extend the
22:58: Garden of Eden to the whole land of Eden and then you know off the off the mountain into the rest of the world to Watch everything become beautiful at some point the tree of life would have been extended to him and that rest would have
23:14: Would have been there for him that same rest type of rest that God had the completion of his creation
23:22: Yeah, and I thought that was though that was really
23:30: Incredible because not only did he point out that the tree of life would have been something that he could have taken and grabbed and eaten
23:39: That mixed with the promise of God that that would have brought him into that You know uncorrupt incorruptible state where he would have been in full
23:50: Complete communion with God like we're looking forward to in the future He also showed that how when he fell
23:58: What we see in the Bible hold it held out to us in the end is still that tree of life you know, it's not like The Covenant of Grace and in salvation is its plan
24:13: B Plan a all along was for us to as humans to to gain a greater and deeper fellowship of God Yeah, and We do so Because of God's promises and his gifts to us.
24:30: Yeah, it was Obtained those promises and gifts were obtained and open through obedience in the
24:37: Covenant of works and now through grace Yeah, this thing is it's fantastic Yeah, I appreciate how he points out
24:49: Longtime fan of answers in Genesis and Ken Ham and his His defense for the 24 -hour creation day, of course is the the qualifiers for each day there was morning there was evening
25:02: This was the this was the first day and he he says that that happens During the days of the week that each one has a qualifier
25:09: But but Perkins points out that that's that seventh day didn't have that last qualifier
25:14: Which signifies that that when when God completed? His work he completed his work.
25:21: And so therefore he began and an everlasting rest mm -hmm and One of the things that popped in my mind when
25:29: I shared our program Maybe last week or so. I Put on the top and asked the question.
25:36: Why did Adam live so long? that that's one of the things that popped in my mind when when I was reading about this creation story in the
25:44: Covenant of works and what God did what he was doing and and I Thought Adam lived on her in 30 years
25:54: And I'm this is just speculation but you know, what why did
26:00: Adam why did the you know, those first Our ancestors lived so long beyond the fact that you know,
26:07: God created them You know without sin God created them Without all these genetic
26:16: Fallacies that that we carry with us now besides all that I Don't had a
26:22: I don't had work to do You know, we I think we talked about this in a previous chapter and you brought it up tonight
26:28: We you know, we don't we don't know what at what point Adam was going to move from The the state that he was to that to that point where he was in that Everlasting rest that deeper communion with God.
26:45: We you know, we don't know exactly when I was Nobody was a glorified body glorified, but yeah exactly go up our body we don't know when that transition was going to take place, but it's kind of hinted that there was if there's a
26:58: Work to do if we're marrying if we're imaging God God did a work
27:03: God completed his work and then there was an everlasting rest as a so therefore when
27:09: God gave Adam Job to do he gave him work and so therefore
27:15: Imaging God there had to be a completion of that work and so Whenever that was going to be whatever that that line is whether okay, the
27:26: Adams work was complete I guess that's when the transition would have happened, but it made me think that has to be one of the reasons why
27:33: Adam and and his immediate ancestor or Descendants live so long.
27:38: It's because they they had a work to do right, it's a Yeah, yeah, he had the work to do it's also incredible that that the
27:52: The the tree of life is is what was going to be what what marked that change
27:58: So yeah, he was he was to stick around No, obviously if without sin, he wouldn't have died but It May have taken a while for him to to do everything know the period of testing may have been more than you know
28:15: Not 90 day per day probationary period like you see at work. Yeah It may have been in nine hundred and thirty year probationary period.
28:24: We don't know it may have been longer may have been shorter We don't know but we do know that at the end of it.
28:30: He would have been extended the the tree of life But he had work to do it's also incredible that we are still being extended that tree of life in in the future with work to do ourselves to go into the world preaching the gospel to To baptize
28:47: The nations and teach them all that God has commanded Really our job is no different than than Adams and that we're supposed to take what is
29:01: Not We're supposed to take what is what is Beautiful and given by God and extend it over the face of the earth
29:13: Which also means that we would have a Sabbath day for ourselves Looking forward to that full and final
29:19: Sabbath rest that we find, you know at the end at the consummation, right? Let me throw this
29:27: Speculation curveball at you. It stems from something. I heard recently and To to a very small degree.
29:35: It makes sense and I don't think we can spend spend too much time Thinking on it because there's just not enough information
29:43: But Adam live 930 years, right? He's really close
29:49: He's really close To that millennial mark. No It's only speculation but is you know, we find the
30:02: Millennium we found a thousand years elsewhere in Scripture and Everywhere else it's it's figurative language and we would believe as eschatologically, it's creative language it's just interesting that He was so close to the thousand -year mark
30:20: Yeah, well also if you look at Methuselah the no oldest oldest dude in the Bible Was at nine hundred and sixty three nine hundred sixty nine years something like that.
30:32: No almost a thousand If you pull his time out on a timeline
30:40: It's likely he died in the flood Which is which is interesting especially when you when you look at Know the way
30:48: God has described the flood You know as the flood being being likened to baptism
30:58: How there was only eight saved and yet there was a water a watery judgment upon the earth
31:05: I Just I mean, I don't know if you could pull any hard doctrine out of there But it's just it's just neat to see those types of connections in the scripture, right?
31:13: Exactly Real Quick going back to our previous conversation about the covenant works and and the law and our relationship to it
31:23: And those two places where we stumbled with it legalism and antinomianism. I really appreciate because I Had not thought about our relationship with the law in this way.
31:38: I appreciate a lot about this book earlier I Referred to it.
31:44: They helped me understand a little bit better, but I called it a love list. He said we were we relate to God because because of the work of Christ in us we can relate to God through the law and With the idea that it's it's a love list not not a law list anymore
32:05: It's it's how we relate to God and then he he spells that out when he says
32:11: And I just had it that that the law is here it is the law is legal and he says and Relational.
32:21: Yep, you know and and I've always viewed the law as in in its legal aspect But but until you know studying this reform covenant theology book
32:32: I never tied in that that relational aspect of the law and and how it's it's
32:40: You know originally we looked at how God put on Adam's heart
32:47: To to relate to him in a certain way and and that and it's always been relational
32:57: Mm -hmm. It wasn't necessarily, you know legal which it was but there was that relational aspect
33:04: Yeah, well even Jesus You hear people abuse this all the time, but they call it the law of love
33:12: We're free from the law, you know the letter of the law now are free to the law of love But really what if you listen to what
33:18: Jesus said he says this And a new commandment I give to you not that took away all the other ones
33:24: But here here I give you a new commandment And what is it that you love one another even as I have loved you that you also love one another
33:33: So what is it that we were supposed to do? in in Obeying God and keeping the law.
33:42: It's not that That we gain righteousness, but because we've been credited righteousness through faith
33:49: We love God and our neighbor and we work to that end to love
33:55: God and neighbor Not because our work save us But because because God doesn't need our works to save us
34:04: But what God has done is given us neighbors who do need our works yeah, and Caused us to come out here and and and you've given this opportunity to love one another
34:15: Yeah And it makes sense now that people would point out even going back and looking at the
34:20: Ten Commandments that that you can divide them vertically and Horizontally showing that they're relational.
34:28: Yeah Yeah, that first relationship is is incredible don't
34:36: Yeah, don't choose any other gods Don't manufacture any other gods, right?
34:41: Don't say that. I'm your God when I'm really not I Mean, it's the first three commandments right there.
34:48: Yep. Yep Going back to the beginning of the chapter, there's there's a question that I want to ask you and see if you could give me a little help on the
34:59: Understanding from from where he's coming from because I know he's coming from more of a Presbyterian background and This type of language
35:10: Is more in line with How you guys speak and understand and substance administration language, is that what you know, no, but I Will but I think it's okay.
35:27: Let me find it. Let me find it I know where it is on the page.
35:37: It is has to do with right. I think it's page page 84
35:48: He quotes Yeah, yeah, he he quotes but I can't pronounce the name
35:58: Bobby Includes the sometimes in the Covenant of Works before the fall When there really were no means of grace they the
36:07: Reformed listed the Sabbath and This was before the fall the
36:13: Sabbath Paradise the tree of knowledge and the tree of life as Sacraments, so can you help me and those who might be listening?
36:24: Explain what what he means by sacraments and then how the reformed Theologians the
36:32: Reformed Church, they understood that pre fall Saw that the
36:40: Sabbath Paradise your knowledge and the tree of life how they saw those as sacraments
36:48: Yeah So, all right, so sacrament is something
36:59: Physical and tangible mixed with the Word of God to give us a connection to A connection to God in some way so the way we would think of it in the
37:18: New Testament is that that baptism is a mixture of water and word that that the water in and of itself is
37:31: Is nothing special because you take a shower every day, you know, it washes dirt off your body But when mixed with the word the grace of God To cleanse for sins really does come to you through through the gospel
37:44: Same thing with the Lord's Supper, you know, while it's just bread and just wine when combined with the
37:51: Word of God It says in 1st Corinthians. Oh, is that first Corinthians 10 that you you're actually partaking of the body and blood of Christ So when he says the same thing here that these are sacraments
38:05: When he says that the the Sabbath and paradise and it's just a day of the week and in a garden which
38:13: They're just normal regular Things it's just a day. It's just a garden.
38:19: But when mixed with the promise of God of his eternal rest and Complete paradise in relationship with God It's it's a sacrament of promise of an eternal rest with God through his through his word and promise
38:37: Same thing with the knowledge of good and evil that they would have Obviously in sinning they got it the wrong way, but they would have been given the knowledge of good and evil
38:49: In a perfect way have they not reached out and grabbed it when they weren't supposed to Same thing comes with especially the tree of life
38:58: Which we see that the fruit from the tree of life would have been just fruit But when mixed with the word and promise of God Eating of that fruit would have gained a greater and deeper relationship with God So it would have caused him to be in a glorified body and had a greater
39:18: Greater communion with with the father even even to to I Would say probably able to to go into the presence of God in heaven and still live upon the earth
39:30: You know, so did that help answer your question, you know, because Because yeah sacrament is really just it's a mixture of something plain and ordinary in this world with the word and promise of God So toward toward it becomes more than just that thing the next
39:51: Yeah, it seems to be how you're explaining a way that a way that we can commune with God in a in a unique special way
39:59: You're based on his direction Sure, it's directed this But we don't just make up sacraments as we go.
40:08: Right right, but I say that because it's it's his means and So therefore it's a unique special way that we have a
40:20: Taste of that deeper communion with him that he's promised
40:28: And he also Describes similarly later on in the chapter. You're talking about the the tree of life and how you were explaining sacraments
40:36: I think he describes the tree of life as or he reminds us that the the tree of life
40:42: There wasn't anything magical about the tree itself Adam had to Be fully obedient and complete his work to therefore have access and gain the
41:00: Benefits the fruit of the tree of life right Yeah, it's it's it's just a means in which
41:08: God gives his gifts to his people a Physical thing with with mixed with the word and promise of God We have the humble
41:19: Baptist podcast with us tonight He says there's a theory of the long life
41:24: We see and the people before the flood that revolves around the firmament in the creation essentially being an ice canopy around the earth
41:32: They came down in the flood. I can send a video later Just to give you heard about this
41:40: Yeah, it's wild The theory is that there was either a water or an ice canopy that went around the entire earth
41:48: So that when the waters came down the waters also came up during the flood and what happened was it?
41:55: There was there was a lot more pressure on the earth and a higher Higher concentration of oxygen
42:03: Which would have allowed things to grow bigger live longer to be able to process foods better So and that's why some people think that some of those dinosaurs that are just massive
42:16: They got these little bitty nostrils, you know in a really long neck was like, how could they ever?
42:22: Breathe. Well, they were able to breathe because the oxygen was thicker Yeah the plants were bigger because there's a lot more oxygen and carbon dioxide than you know, the dragonflies the size of a
42:31: Volkswagen because of all those things and so Shortly after the flood you see the lifespans go from no six seven eight nine hundred years to Was it four or five generations later?
42:45: Yeah, Abraham is at 120 years because you're losing the oxygen and it's spreading out and stuff
42:51: Yeah, well, it's a it's a it makes a lot of sense. It fits with scripture. I don't know if it's if it's
42:57: The reality or not, but it seems to fit It does and you were saying that I was about to say
43:05: I was about to say water canopy, but I didn't uh, I didn't want to sidetrack us, but I like it.
43:12: Well scientifically it does give an explanation that the only thing That may throw a wrench
43:20: And it may not let me get your perspective When we think about eschatology
43:27: And we think about the new heavens and the new earth and when it says that when somebody dies at a hundred
43:35: They're gonna say what they died young and so there's there's this expectation that As things are getting better.
43:45: So was the lifespan when they're gonna read terraform the earth Mm -hmm.
43:51: So throw that water back up there You know if you put the water up there
43:57: There wouldn't be any land and you know what the Bible says in Revelation that there was no sea hmm,
44:05: I Don't think I'm really on to anything. It's just interesting to think about Well either if this is the cause of or Got part of God's creation to cause man to live longer
44:21: Then it's I don't know he's going to have to That's gonna have to happen again so that we can you know fulfill
44:31: Scripture or way or It could be as simple as people are sinning less the
44:39: Holy Spirit is working and Because there's less sin in the world people are living longer.
44:46: I really don't know. Yeah, really I don't know. I do know that every time
44:52: I try to think about what God is going to do in a situation I'm usually wrong So, I mean
44:59: I've had I've had you know, oh, well, this is clearly what God wants and then like two weeks later My gals way off So, you know,
45:07: I'm not even gonna speculate I'm gonna say God said this is gonna happen I'm just gonna trust that it does, you know saying that about the future.
45:14: We have a hard enough time Figuring out what he has already done
45:20: Well, that's the thing was it Isaiah trial of false gods he says he says
45:27: Tell me what's gonna happen in the future or better yet Tell me what's gonna happen to me what happened in the past and tell me why it happened
45:35: And the thing is people just can't do it. Why because we're not God Unless he reveals something to us.
45:42: I mean we can speculate but we got a We got speculate with caution be like, you know,
45:48: I don't I don't really know I'm gonna this could be wild But also God also said that he can do more greater things that I could even think ask or imagine so, you know,
45:59: I have to leave it in his hands because he's God and I'm not his ways are higher than my ways and I'm just gonna trust in His grace and yeah
46:07: Enjoy my way home Trusting in him. I Ends but but take us to when
46:18: I was you were you were speculating on Where I was taking us and you said something about the substance
46:25: Take us there and then when we finish with that thought I will I'll ask my last question Oh substance in administration.
46:32: Yeah Yeah, that's a distinction that the reformed folks make all the way across covenant theology that there was a a
46:45: Substance of what God was doing and Then there's an administration of how he's dealing with us.
46:52: So what that means is The substance If you were to take it from from a broad perspective
47:01: Substance of the covenant of works would be that we would live In deep communion with God forever immortally
47:12: That Was administered to us through works with the No sacrament of the tree of life the promise of Those things as reward for following the law of God We did not
47:28: So then God using the same substance to That we would be with him forever
47:39: The glorified bodies and commuting with him in perfection he then made the promise that we would or that he would that the seed of of The woman would crush the head of the sea of the serpent
47:57: Which meant that he was going to undo the works of Satan the the fall
48:04: We then see the promise to Noah where He works out that He's going to destroy the earth.
48:14: He's gonna save Noah through the flood and he won't Destroy the whole earth through water
48:21: Again, it makes the promise to to Abraham. So Noah would have been one administration
48:29: When he speaks to Abraham he says I want you to take your family and want you to circumcise them come out of No, er go over here trust in me.
48:39: I'm gonna make of you a great nation That's another administration Where he has made covenant with with Abraham But the substance is still the same thing that God's going to bring a people into communion with himself fully and incredibly
48:55: Then you see the same thing with with with Moses You know, how do a people live with with a holy
49:02: God and so he takes a picture of of Heavenly worship and how people would approach
49:10: God in heaven and gives that to them as in the Old Testament Tabernacle is you know, here's how you approach a holy
49:17: God you do so, you know with reverence with respect You don't go where you're not supposed to go Sin has to be dealt with if you're going to come into my presence and so sin has to be dealt with Here's a sacrificial system, which was all pointing forward to To Christ you have
49:36: David where he says, hey David, I'm going to make you a man after my own heart Nobody's gonna fail to sit on the throne after you and then you see that Christ was a fulfillment of that all of those things and even in the
49:49: New Covenant when you have Christ coming and dying and giving us his body and his blood and the supper and and telling us about ties folks and And he raises up and he goes off into heaven
50:04: That New Covenant is still the same Substance that God is procuring for himself a people to live in communion with himself perfectly forever for all time
50:18: Immortally and purely and How do we live in light of that knowing that Christ is our forgiveness of sins that's the administration of That covenant that we saw from all the way back in the beginning
50:34: That God is bringing a people to himself to commune with him and live with him
50:41: So that's the difference between substance and administration. There was one plan one idea one
50:48: Thing being accomplished by God throughout all of these covenants the one substance is that God is bringing a people to himself the administration is
50:58: How he's getting it done and what he's revealing about himself in the process gotcha
51:06: Actually ended up having two more questions So To work till 730 tomorrow
51:18: The first question the first question that I want to ask is page 87 top of page 87 I highlighted that one too, and it's just It's just the question based on what he said and I've understood it in a different way so he says we to have a day of the week on which we gather as the church to hear of God's goodness and he says
51:44: And rest from our worldly engagements My understanding has always been that we we don't rest from our worldly engagements, but we rest from That natural inclination to earn
52:02: God's favor through trying to keep the covenant works So Well, we're we're making off track here.
52:12: Well, what was the what was the purpose of? The Sabbath the first Sabbath the very first Sabbath the the purpose of that was for God to rest and show his completion of Creation also setting in place a pattern that Adam here you have your work as well and on the seventh day
52:37: You need to rest and in your rest. You're gonna remember me and Everything that I've promised to you.
52:45: Mm -hmm. So the same thing happened with afterwards with Moses Abraham Now all he set it up as a part of the fabric of creation
53:01: Six days you do your work Seventh day you rest. So even the
53:07: Christians today. Well, we look at that and say All right, we will do the work upon the earth for six days on the seventh day
53:15: We don't do the things that we would normally do We take that day to remember our God to rest in him to know that that it is
53:26: Take one whole day to remind ourselves of what God has promised us and what we have in store at the end of our work so when our labors are finally over when the
53:36: Great Commission is no longer our task we are Gone with him
53:43: We're remembering what that will be like. So so it's the same Sabbath rest that was laid out in creation, which
53:50: I believe since he it was put into the the deck log the
53:55: Ten Commandments is actually a summary of God's moral character So he set apart, you know from the very beginning of creation
54:04: Here's one day in seven that you will rest and you will rest by looking to me to be your
54:12: Ultimate aim and goal. It's not the work that you're doing. It's it's me And so we've gone through that same substance all the way through It's just been administered a little bit differently along the way and here we we worship on the first day of the week
54:27: Because that's when Christ has risen again We know that it's Christ is going to provide us that full and final rest and that we
54:36: The reason why we observed the Sabbath is because we know that That one day we will be finished with our work will be with our
54:45: God in heaven and then eventually upon the earth you know that makes so much more sense and I Think we would have avoided so much more or so much legalism
54:59: In the church if this had been explained At all, not just better but at all
55:06: But yeah, because what happened here is that I'm I'm separating the two trying to keep the covenant works and this this idea of resting from worldly engagement, but that's
55:18: That's what Adam was doing his his covenant of works his obeying
55:24: God was his worldly engagement he was He had a work to do here on this earth
55:30: So I'm thinking about when I'm growing up and we're driving to church and you see such -and -such over here mowing their grass
55:37: We don't mow our grass on Sunday That's that's the day of rest well that turned into what you're being legalistic and so, you know
55:48: We we rest from our works. We rest from trying to Earn our salvation so but now we're resting in Christ so you can
55:57: You know mow the lawn if you if you want to because you know, we're not trying to earn our salvation anymore
56:05: But when you when you explain it like this and put the two together It's more of a sign.
56:11: We we rest on the Sabbath Because God has given us all throughout history this idea of Growing his kingdom subduing the earth multiplying and so we're just continuing the work of Adam, but we're doing it in Christ and this day of rest is a
56:33: Is a sign of there's going to be a day when that in Christ that that kingdom
56:41: Is going to be complete that he is going to be subdued. It's going to be filled
56:47: Mm -hmm. And so it makes so much more sense to explain it that way. Yep. Who is it?
56:53: It's right here somewhere Where do you go? It's a
57:07: I believe is an OPC minister, I believe he fell down in my friend's house, but His name is
57:15: Joseph Piper he is Is called the
57:21: Lord's Day he is He was at least at the time of the writing of this book the president of Greenville Presbyterian Theological Seminary Down there in Tyler's neck of the woods in South Carolina but he explains in this book that We have six days a week to basically to go to market to do our business in our commerce
57:50: On the seventh day We also go to the market, but we don't go to the same market
57:57: We go to the market of our soul so while we go and we work on making money and building our business and Building our family and doing this that and the other thing on The Lord's Day We go to the we go to the place where our souls are enriched
58:20: We purchase things, you know purchase without money the things of God Where we go and we receive the
58:26: Lord's Supper We hear the word preach. We pray with the Saints. We sing with the
58:31: Saints of God we spend the whole day just filling up on the goodness of our
58:37: Savior and then the rest of the week we go out and we're working in the marketplace as his
58:44: Ambassadors in that place, but then on the seventh day we come back again to The special marketplace for our soul where we go to to Christ and Christ alone.
58:54: It was a really neat way of thinking about it Yeah, but Joseph Piper the Lord's Day in case anybody it's not very thick
59:01: So that's all you ask. There's only you know, it's it's small compared to my hand There you go.
59:07: That's true. So it's Let's see, even so even small home assets as a big print
59:14: I say big print it looks small The prints probably prints a little bit bigger than it's about 200
59:22: About 200 pages 200 small pages Well before we move on let me ask you this question sure
59:30: I Brought up the example of mowing grass on Sunday. Mm -hmm. You could throw whatever example you wanted out there
59:39: And Looking at this help me to understand that from a different perspective and a better perspective,
59:45: I believe But but let's let's look at that example and let me get your opinion
59:53: Mowing grass on Sunday does in in the New Covenant. Does that become a
59:59: Romans 14 be convinced in your own mind? That it's okay you you know or How how stringent were our fathers and grandfathers and great -grandfathers, right
01:00:15: Resting ceasing from all work or how do you view that? Well with with the advent of Headphones and podcasts and audio books.
01:00:31: It does make it a little different Um, but still
01:00:39: I would you you've got six days of the week to do that kind of stuff So I would spend six days of the week doing that kind of stuff and just reserve
01:00:50: Reserve the the Lord's Day for doing Lord's Day stuff For instance if you plan on Mowing your lawn say you've got one of those really nice like say you got an enclosed air -conditioned
01:01:07: Big old John Deere tractor and 20 acres, you know, I'm gonna mow that on Sunday afternoon because I want to listen to this audio book about Justification by James Buchanan, there's a book
01:01:20: I just saw they say you have an audio book But And listening to that book is great and fine, but you're also limiting yourself and you're causing yourself to To separate from your family and your your
01:01:40: Christian neighbor the the Lord's Day is a great time to Involve your involve yourself with the life of the people around you
01:01:50: To invite invite somebody over after church You know say hey
01:01:58: Next week we want you to come over and eat lunch. We're having no pulled pork, you know, because we're
01:02:04: Christians now not Jews We want you to come over have some pulled pork some corn on the cob.
01:02:10: We're just gonna hang out throughout the afternoon No, we'll sing some psalms in the evening. Then we'll know you can go on your way
01:02:16: We'll go on ours and you just kind of rest you rest you enjoy their company you build up relationships
01:02:25: It's it's better to mow your grass on a Saturday so that way you can
01:02:33: Put it this way if you can mow your grass on a Saturday So you and your church family can kick around a soccer ball on your yard on Sunday While eating and fellowshipping and talking about the glories of God, it's much better to do it like that Now what
01:02:50: I will say is this one of the things that got people into trouble about the
01:02:56: Lord's Day and keeping it and keeping the Sabbath is Exactly what Jesus jumped on the
01:03:01: Pharisees for Well, you said You shouldn't
01:03:07: Run over here. You shouldn't grab this grain and rub between your fingers You know, that's that's work.
01:03:14: You shouldn't walk more than this number of steps. That's work. You shouldn't pick up your mat and walk. That's work say man the purpose of the
01:03:23: Sabbath Jesus said That he is the
01:03:28: Lord of the Sabbath The Sabbath was made for man not man for the Sabbath. We're not there to serve the the idea of keeping the
01:03:38: Lord's Day We're not there to serve the idea of not working It's there for us
01:03:44: Is there for us to benefit by spending our time? Positively and that that's the real important thing is that we don't think of it as a negative thing
01:03:53: Well, I don't do this. I don't do that. I don't do this No, what am I going to fill up my time with I'm gonna fill it up with things that enrich my soul and benefit my neighbor
01:04:04: That's what I'm doing on the Lord's Day. That's what I'm gonna purpose to do the whole day how Especially without working at my job.
01:04:12: Am I going to just Practice living in eternity that day by worshiping
01:04:20: God and serving my neighbor And Such a better way to think about it when you think about it positively the negative.
01:04:27: That's good. Yeah, that's good and And to me that relates to what we brought up earlier about how the reformed
01:04:36: Theologians reformed believers saw the the Sabbath as a sacrament that it was made
01:04:43: It was made for for us so that we could enjoy that communion
01:04:50: With God and with others. Yeah. All right. Here's the last question That's got a logical question one page back page 85
01:05:01: You and I have done some episodes on eschatology and post -millennialism this kind of touches it a little bit and So he
01:05:12: I guess he is seeing Revelation 22 as I Guess post second coming
01:05:23: He says the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations So I'm trying to figure out if I see that as part of the
01:05:37: Part of the kingdom that we're in now this post -millennial Gradual Good good kingdom building work that God is doing that.
01:05:50: He's currently healing the nation's You know, we're in the we're in the spiritual new heavens new earth.
01:05:57: We're in the spiritual new Jerusalem and and he's In the process of healing the nations
01:06:06: Or is this leaves of the tree or for the healing of the nations is that A post -second coming accomplished.
01:06:16: I I really think that almost everything in the last two chapters of Revelation is is speaking of How the church is now but speaking of it in such a way that That it points to the consummation so so What are we finding now?
01:06:45: We don't have the I don't have the tree of life. My flesh will die The nations are still going to fight with one another now and even even for a time in the future
01:07:01: But what happens when the tree of life is fully given to to to mankind?
01:07:08: When sin is taken away and the tree of life is given the nations are going to be healed We're going to live in the world
01:07:18: Completely harmoniously with one another Jew Gentile who has as many people as God has called to himself
01:07:27: And so I I don't know I think it's uh, I think it's it's it's the goal
01:07:36: I think I view the tree of life as as the The the biting the biting of the tree of life is being the biting of the fruit of the tree of life being as Entering into the consummation
01:07:50: That's how I view it. Yeah, so here here's that final consummation of God as we as we come to the end of history
01:07:57: What's it gonna be? It's gonna be God giving his final gift to his people That tree of life that we didn't have him that we couldn't eat in the garden the garden
01:08:06: Is given to us now because of the work of Christ, you know It's so interesting the balance that we have to view this covenant that we're in That Jesus accomplished.
01:08:18: I mean it is finished. He accomplished this covenant of works He's reaping his rewards.
01:08:24: We are we are now in the kingdom He Everything everything except well, even even in the old covenant that was true
01:08:34: I mean the kingdom wasn't wasn't the the the the kingdom of heaven the kingdom of God It was kingdom of Israel, but still it was
01:08:42: God's kingdom Yeah, so we've been we've been seeing those things happen throughout history It's just been you know, it's looked different the same substance different administration.
01:08:51: Yeah, I got you and we all all signs of that eternal rest but yet Glorious glorious signs of what
01:09:08: God's doing here on this earth for his kingdom But yet still mournful of The sin that's left
01:09:21: We're not Still in a peculiar state Yep, and that's why it's so important to take one day a week and just stare at Christ and be filled up with his grace
01:09:35: Yeah, yeah Yeah, and be reminded of that that everlasting rest that that is to come that's that's been accomplished like we thought it's been accomplished in Christ and Yeah, each
01:09:47: Sunday is Sunday is a breath of fresh air. It's like just just a little while longer Yeah, just a little while longer
01:09:55: Yeah, and and we want everybody to to experience that that that peace
01:10:03: As Dan said Jesus is the Lord of the Sabbath we can we can experience that peace be spiritually every day, but it's that that day is also set aside for us to To to rest from from that work of the kingdom of Christ As he's working in us to to to build his kingdom and to Subdue it to multiply physically and spiritually
01:10:37: Conquering for his kingdom but there's there's only one way to experience that peace and That is to to honor him as King Acknowledging that that we are sons and daughters of Adam that we cannot
01:10:56: Keep the covenant of works. We cannot keep his law. In fact, we have according to James chapter 2 verse 10
01:11:03: Even if you keep the whole law and stumble at one point you're guilty of it all. So we're we're Under God's wrath because of our law breaking because of our sin and and God sent a rescuer
01:11:19: That's the that's the good news of the gospel that God sent a rescuer to To complete and to fulfill and accomplish this goal that he's had from the beginning and He was the one who was able to do it and when we can find that peace
01:11:36: We can find that deeper relationship now and that deeper relationship and that eternal rest
01:11:42: With God the Father through his son Jesus Christ and we can find that peace in him but we have to turn from our sin acknowledge it and Repent of it and turn in faith toward Jesus Christ and the work that he has accomplished and finished
01:12:02: Jesus said on the cross it is finished and that means It was done
01:12:08: And he did it. And so all glory and praise belongs to him, but it wasn't he wasn't finished
01:12:15: He he was raised from the dead just as it was prophesied on the third day
01:12:21: He was seen by many And then he ascended it send it into heaven where he sits now
01:12:29: At the right hand of the father the place of authority He is King of Kings and Lord of Lords and and we must honor him we must kiss the
01:12:37: Sun honor him and submit to him as King and That's That's our
01:12:45: God. That's the one that we serve and we want you all to know him as well
01:12:51: So turn from your sins put your faith and trust in Jesus Christ, Dan. Would you close us in prayer?
01:12:57: Yeah Dear Heavenly Father. Thank you for your goodness and your grace Thank you for your work on our behalf and your grace and giving it to us pray that as we look at this covenant of works that we have
01:13:10: Failed know that you are still faithful to keep your covenant With us that you have desired a people for yourself and you are going about to get them to pray that we would be
01:13:21: Faithful servants to that end and Christ. Let me pray. Amen Amen. Thank you all for watching.
01:13:28: We really appreciate it, Dan. I appreciate you and I'm thankful to be doing this with you.