Whitten Q & A - Ep. 3 - ARE WE IN THE END TIMES?

Good evening.

Sorry, we're a minute or two late.

We were having some technical difficulties basically.

Our JPEG in the format of the system of the overriding internet 5

.0 was it working right, but I fixed it.

You did.

I did.

I fixed it.

Well tonight.

It's a good day and I'm excited about doing this and to be quite honest with you if we

need to revisit this subject again.

We can do so next week or at a later date because it is.

It is pretty wide.

It's it's it's a really big chunk to text or to talk about in prophecy in

general.

You know I had someone once asked me well pastor is this allegorical is it literal well?

That's something we need to get to grips with right off the bat scripture is both allegorical

Jesus shared a parable, but it's also literal as well, and so to say it's one or the other is

intellectual dishonesty so we're going to answer two questions tonight and

The first question says this my pastor says there is no rapture is

that true.

The second question.

I'm sorry no no the second question is are we in the end times?

And that was those are the two questions, so which one y 'all want to talk about first.

Alright, so that's the first question.

We're going to answer tonight or try to answer.

I should say I don't want to be too optimistic.

But we're going to try to answer are we in the end times now.

I want you to know we have our beautiful wonderful Ayesha who is monitoring

Your comments, and if you have any questions on this topic Please go

ahead and type them in the comments and this Ayesha Is going to bring those up and

we will try to answer you during this discussion well guys appreciate you being here of course Josiah Shipley and

Jeremiah Shipley to the most eminent scholars on the face of the earth and Two

young men that I love with all of my heart.

It is a good day to be alive in Jesus.

So guys let's jump into our conversation are we in the end times I?

Think the first question you have to ask is what do you mean by in time?

Yes.

Well, I think within the context of what they were asking in relation to the pandemic and the

economics and the military.

Things going on are we are we in a time that we could expect Jesus to

come back right now.

Um to answer that well, I don't know there's a short answer to that best do your best.

You have to find what you mean by in times okay because Jesus and Paul and Peter.

They make references many times that the day is coming near the day of the Lord is fast.

The day of Lord is approaching um and so in a sense yes, we are.

In a sense yes, but at the same time Paul also says in the last days.

There'll be lovers of self lovers of much so he makes a distinction.

So there is a distinction there that though we are in the last days that the day of the Lord is

coming quickly.

This is not the final day of judgment.

This is not the Great White Throne.

This is not all of those things um.

And we know through scripture that many things have to happen there many prophecies and so forth they need to happen in.

We have to see these things come um so the answer is shortly yes, we're in the last days.

But that does not mean that today.

We need to be expecting obviously yeah I think before we before I get into

my spiel.

I think a preface that we need to All be very careful to set in our hearts and our minds before

getting in this it's a difference between a doctrine and a theology.

More than that.

Now here's what we mean when we say that guys apart from Who God is?

Revealing his word.

I think the difference between a doctrine and theology is probably the most important thing a Christian teacher can teach

somebody and here's why.

Because we have churches split Over things that are theological and not doctrinal and

Jesus will not be happy with that no.

But we also accept and tolerate things that are really sin.

That have doctrinal divide, but we say they're not doctrinally sound.

So here's what we mean when we say a doctor a doctrine is a fundamental teaching found in the Word of God from Genesis to Revelation.

It doesn't matter how any of us feel about it.

It's what the Bible says and we follow to it.

Theology the study of God is the study that comes from those

doctrines, okay?

For example God created the world.

That is not for debate the Bible says that I can't look you in the eye and say and he did it in the year

5336 BC at 7 a .m..

Right that is a study that we've got to look okay genealogies and if I add these years up and I do this so

a Doctrine is a fundamental teaching a theology is the study of many things with eschatology.

We have some things that we know for sure Jesus Christ is coming back.

No wait a minute.

What's eschatology the study of last things?

So when we said the eschatology study of last things study of end times that kind of stuff.

The Bible says Jesus is coming back.

That's not for debate the Bible says he is returning.

Exactly when and how and what proceeds in front of that is a study the study

of eschatology the study of last things.

So with all that being said are we in the last days.

Well in one sense yes because Once Jesus left the world we were

in the last days that last dispensation Maranatha Lord Jesus come quickly.

Paul said right Peter was very explicit.

You know what all that stuff.

But at the same time there's many prophecies the Bible says you don't know The

exact hour no man knows the exact hour and then Jesus spends two and a half chapters.

Saying that these are the signs of things right now, so no man knows the exact hour.

But when you see these things for example rumors of wars I think that's something that we

can look around sometimes be like I don't use those wars.

There's rumors of wars.

There's always on the cusp.

If I just go ahead if you will um and what you said there's very important that I think is a

very important studies that it says no one knows the day or hour and Sometimes people and this is you

know when this doctor theology beings people get caught up on is that people want to make day or hour.

Years or decades or like you will have no idea whatsoever.

But as Josiah just said, but then he gives you a whole bunch of things and second Thessalonians He says

for it will come like a thief in the night.

But you my brothers are not one who are sleep in the darkness, but our children of the light.

So it will not take you like a thief in other words He's saying that yeah, no one knows the day or hour, and it

will come like a thief in the night.

But if you are not asleep, but you are awake and being prepared you will see it approaching.

You'll be as Matthew 24 says like birth pain delay.

You wouldn't see those surrounding effects like I don't know the day or hour,

but I know it is approaching to to more directly.

If you're if the questioner is asking do I believe this pandemic is a sick seal.

You read this and the amount of death that takes place we haven't even scratched the surface.

Guys when I'm not when the Bible says a fourth in the world I literally believe it is the fourth of the

world and if you notice it's no reason not to believe it.

It says a fourth and then a third yeah.

So I can't do math very great, but I'm pretty sure that's you know.

But I want I want to really directly answer so it depends on what you mean by last days, and I believe.

Do I believe we're in that stage of the seals.

No I don't.

I don't.

But I do want to emphasize something.

Paul said Paul's writing to a pastor.

And this is Titus chapter 2.

Paul wrote three chapters to this pastor, and he decided to include this in there.

This is Titus 2 11 through 14.

For the grace of God has appeared Bringing salvation for all people training us to renounce ungodliness and worldly passions

and to live self -controlled Upright and godly lives in this present age comma while

we wait.

For the blessed hope the appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ.

We could spend a lot of time Again who gave himself for us to redeem us from all lawlessness and purify for

himself of people for his own possessions.

Zealous for good works while we wait.

Now notice while we wait for his return.

Paul is telling him we are waiting for that return.

Paul is not writing saying well.

There's no point in waiting because these prophecy must be fulfilled right while we wait.

And what are you supposed to do while you wait not hide in a bunker?

While you wait you are living self -controlled Upright and godly lives in this

present age while we wait for the blessed hope in the appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ.

So are we in the last days in one sense?

Yes, because Paul and Peter spoke of the last days in the sense of Jesus could return when he

pleases.

All we in the last days as in the seals are being opened.

No, I don't believe so.

But let me let me say something that I said last week to a brother

if These are not the end times.

My job is to preach the gospel.

To love my brothers to disciple them and tomorrow loving good works in them.

Right to preach the gospel.

To love my God to disciple my brother and sisters if these are The end times my

jobs don't change.

No.

It's the preach the gospel to love my God and to disciple to promote loving good works my brothers sisters.

My job doesn't change guys your job doesn't.

Your job doesn't change when the Bible says be ready.

Be ready for his return guys.

It's not talking about because you have anything to offer him.

Be ready for that return just like the parable with the talents and all the other things that Jesus spoke of being ready.

Saying what did you do with the time that I gave you and none of us knows how much time we have whether

that's to Our death or to his return.

So in the time we have today while it's still called the day.

You're not hard on your hearts, right while we still have that time while we still have this breath.

We're gonna do everything for God's glory.

No matter what day or age we think we're in, you know, one of the things.

You know, I I don't know if this will be a good analogy.

You know if you think of Jesus as The halftime, you know, the first half

was Everything in the Old Testament.

The second half is everything since Jesus died.

Now the problem with that is you have a clock up here.

But one of the things that I remember is when both of you guys would fight

I'd be over in the corner and There was no clock.

I didn't know right when the round was going to end I had no idea.

But I tell you I was Encouraging you boys as hard in the first minute as

I was in the third minute because I didn't know what the time was.

I had no idea but I knew the fight was going to end.

I knew that it was going to and I was encouraging you guys to swing Until the very end and not to

extend the analogy.

But you may see the signs of okay, they've been getting tired in there for right?

We've got to be coming to the end at some point, right?

You can see those signs right, but you still don't know the time and when the Bible says no, man I take that quite

literally guys.

No, absolutely.

Well, actually when I was reading in Matthew 24, it actually says no man or angel.

It's not a specific human Nobody but the Father knows and let me let me just

step back here and do a little admonishment if you will and once again, I don't mean to

be I don't mean to be Offensive but I've

heard over the years doing the job as a pastor, you know many people I've written a book or I

wrote a book or I've read a book and if you take the first letter of the second Chapter of

every third book in the Old Testament and multiply it by six.

There's a secret code that gives us the date of when Jesus is coming back.

So long as you have the right translation.

Right, right.

Well the right translation and for $29 .99 you can buy this book and it'll give you the

code.

Yeah, you know, right.

So here's my problem with that Scripture says no man knows so I can tell you without a

shadow of a doubt.

Without having to read anything without ever having to talk to anybody.

That's doctrinal.

I can tell you right there.

No man knows so not for debate.

It's not it's not and so if anyone starts out saying this Hey on May

17th, 1988, make sure you're ready because Jesus is coming back.

You can go ahead and tell them thank you very much for your time quits Huffy break fluid and

have a good day because no man knows.

Exactly and you know, I think something that we could all

if no man knows.

That does not mean we're supposed to be oblivious to the times, of course, that's not what that means, correct.

But our job is not to seek a secret Countdown clock right our job like we reiterated earlier

is to be ready and being ready.

The Bible says while we wait and you may say oh, okay.

Right, but that's not the case at all just like in Hebrews, you know when it talks about our hope is in

him.

It's not talking about a wishful thinking we hope in him.

Therefore we get to work.

We're waiting on him.

Therefore we get to work and on that and this is kind of going a little rabbit trailing.

But I think it's appropriate and that's faith that hope and that faith.

I like to think of it as a Active patience an active stillness.

That's kind of how I think of it is I am to be in one sense I'm the sit here and to be still

in the Lord that I am NOT trying to go on my own.

Understanding my own strength my I just need to sit and be still in the Lord, but that stillness does not mean

inactivity it's more of a stillness of mind and a part and activity of

hands and Work.

That's what people will kind of get the two mixed up like when are we supposed to be active when it's supposed to be stillness and It's stillness of

heart and mind and having peace in the Lord and waiting on him.

But it's active in our work for the gospel.

Wonderful.

To give a few more poignant things and maybe some things.

Whoever asked and study on their own to continue and be able to think about this.

First off, you know you read First Timothy chapter 3 that

Jeremiah reference earlier where Paul says in the last days perilous times will come and he mentions a bunch of Things people will be lovers of

their own selves and also feel like well haven't people always been that way.

Mm -hmm, and then the bottom says these people have a form of godliness, but deny its power avoid these

people, right?

So you see things like that happening in What's called the so -called church, right?

Um.

Couple little poignant things to start, you know when Jesus speaks of the gospel Going out to all the world,

right?

Well, what does that mean?

Does that mean that every single tongue?

Does that mean every single human being on the planet, right?

So things like that can help you like, okay.

What does that mean?

When Jesus talks about the destruction of the temple Matthew 24 things like that might be helpful to study also to

help you realize what times you think we're in, you know.

If I'm hearing it, all right, you know what I'm hearing is yes, these are the end

times because it is the Dispensation that God said the fulfillment of Christ

has come.

He has made known unto us the mystery of his will.

But as far as saying is this the end time as far as we got two weeks left or ten years.

Nobody knows that so yes, we're in the end times because the Bible says we're in the end times.

But to say that we can narrow that down to a year or a decade.

It's it borders on impossibility and maybe last thing on this when we speak of the dispensations of

God revealing his truth To his people bits at a time throughout.

Well, his revelation of Scripture is complete.

Right, whereas when he spoke to Abraham it was not yet in the money right when he spoke to well Moses

before that when he spoke to You know, even the prophet even Elijah and

David it was not complete yet.

Well now it is correct.

Well now it is so there is no New revelation that God is revealing to his church

that he has not already revealed in some other form I mean his Bible that is correct, but couldn't both of

y 'all also say that there is within this

timeframe of world history.

And I mean world history.

There are some anomalies that have taken place.

I point you to the 1948 re -establishment of Israel as a nation

and you know, we're literally talking about.

You know a nation that was obliterated their their land was renamed and

But God kept saying hey You're all going to be a nation again and then in 1948

in a day literally and Isaiah asked this Rhetorically, it says can a nation be born in a

day?

And in one day after Almost 2 ,000 years the nation of Israel

became the nation of Israel again.

So it's fair to say that as we look at this, yes, we don't know the exact day but

it's also I think fair to say that there are anomalies that have happened like the one I mentioned that do

give when Credence to the fact that man, you know, God is you know, God is warming up the

thrones.

You know, he's getting ready to come.

Of course.

It's the labor pains the birthing pains, right?

You read the list of Matthew 24 like okay that one.

Yes that one.

Yes.

Yes.

When it says and there will be Come great terror and trials that the world has never seen up until

now and we'll never see to this point again.

That's that hasn't happened yet.

Mm -hmm the amount of death and horror and chaos that you got to realize that in the 20th century.

Now granted guess this has to do with population and all but in the 20th century more human beings

died.

Than the previous 19th centuries combined in the 20th century more

people died than in the previous 20th centuries combined that is a

serious serious fact.

And when you take that in consideration and that we're still here that things are still moving forward that

one God help us when that day comes.

Amen.

But to The I would say yes that there are some anomalies that is an anomaly

sharp -dressed increase in that.

Yes, it has to do with technology increase.

Yes, it has to do with population increase.

Yes.

But that fact still stands correct.

Um, the anomaly that you brought up on Isaiah 66 8 is the verse you quoted can initially be born in a day.

It did no other nations ever done all of human history all of human history

no.

People.

And a nation is different than a country correct a nation is a people a country is a

sovereign.

Why.

Yes, yeah, um a people group destroyed in

70 AD or something like that 2 ,000 years almost 2 ,000 years

almost and then they decided to have man, and.

Then what was it?

Uh 15 20 years later the fighting wars, right?

Well, 1948 the War of Independence, yeah, and then 1967 and then

1973 and of course the infatata and all that yet all these nations have come against them and yet they

still stand.

That once again is an anomaly.

They really they've been a nation a country the nation of Israel has been a country again for

only 72 years.

That's correct.

That's it.

That's correct after thousands of years.

And that's part and I in my opinion I would say part of that dispensation that we're

coming in and If I will for any of you listening.

Just kind of maybe if I can give it a little more clear of what we mean by the dispensation.

And if I can maybe clear that up just a little bit at one point in time God spoke

directly to Adam.

Yeah walked with him walked with him talked with him then.

He brought these people called judges along.

Okay, and he spoke to his people through the judges and then he spoke to his people through the prophets.

Then he spoke to his people through his son Jesus Christ.

Now he spoke to us through his word the Bible and this is now this and as this is what

Josiah was talking about that.

The revelation has been complete the the scriptures are now for full of fulfilled.

Jesus was the prophet priest in Cain.

Correct.

And so in that those dispensations started and ended and now this is a new dispensation

within the church.

The church was made and created at Pentecost.

And so that this is now a new dispensation.

And so that's you can kind of see the steps being moving forward though.

It's going along through the track.

It's going along and you can see some of this and thanks.

Thanks be to God.

He gave us this we can see it, right?

We're not ignorant to it when people say.

I've heard so many people say and this is me personally.

Why don't study revelation because it's too complicated the paint.

What do they call the they're paying Millennials at all pan out.

Yeah.

One oh wow one.

I Mean, it's like when Jesus said, you know, whether the one who went hit his talents in the dirt that

you lazy servant.

Yeah, yeah, you lazy servant, right?

I have given you my revelation.

This is the number one way I'm not gonna say the only but the number one way for you to know

the nature of who God is and You're going to ignore a

significant Relevant piece that he put in there.

You lazy servant.

I agree.

I want The Anomalies you spoke of.

I mean they're apparent.

Israel should not be in existence, right?

I mean, okay.

Let's just let's go back for a period of reason.

Let's go back real quick.

Genesis, you know 40 through 50.

We're talking about a people who should have starved to death because of a family in the whole world

but because they sold their brother into slavery and he rose to power in Egypt and

He was an agricultural genius not on his own account because of God.

Economic genius.

He was able to sell food to a tribe of 70 people, right?

That was his blood, right?

Raise a nation from that and then he said and when you plan for evil God planned for good.

They go into slavery in that nation that they went to willingly for food.

So they didn't starve to death and they didn't go back home.

And for and then and then they're a slave for 400 years then they're let out almost 2 million people.

They wandered in the world for 40 years bodies dropping as what Leviticus talks about.

Then finally they make it to the promised land their conquest all the way out there wiped up then years later.

They're taken over by the Assyrians and the Babylonians literally displaced them from their homeland.

They should not be in existence.

Agree at the same time.

You know, we see all that we see anomalies like this.

I just want to read one scripture that I referenced earlier and then we can move on from this.

This is Matthew 24.

And this is what Jesus says after the disciples asked him.

This is what the disciples asked.

They were going out of the temple and The disciples point to the buildings on the temple.

Verse 2 he answered you will see all these.

Do you not truly I see to you.

Not be one stone left on top of another and not be thrown down.

Okay, the disciples ask him tell us when these things will be what the sign of your coming be and

When the end of the age, okay, this is what Jesus says and I'll read it quickly.

Many will come saying on the Christ will lead you astray.

You will hear of wars and rumors of wars.

See if you're not alarmed for this must take place, but the end is not yet.

Nation will rise against nation kingdom against kingdom.

There'll be phantoms and earthquakes in various places.

All these things are the beginning of birth pain.

They will deliver you up to tribulation and push you to death.

You'll be hated by all nations for my name's sake.

Many will fall away and betray one another hate one another.

I'll skip down to verse 14 and This gospel the kingdom will be proclaimed

throughout the whole world as a testimony to all nations.

Then the end will come.

So, you know, there's a lot there about this this will happen and this is the beginning this will happen.

It is not yet this weapon.

So we see the puzzle pieces falling in place, but we can't pretend that we have the whole puzzle.

Correct what I'm saying?

Well another thing you read from Matthew 24 there and you were quite correct there in verse 3.

It actually it's a three -part question.

Yes, and if you if you go through and you look at those three questions.

And then read the rest of the discourse.

It's called the olivet discourse, of course of course because um this was

uh Jesus is teaching on mount olives.

That's why it's called the olivet discourse and it really goes on beyond chapter 24.

It goes into chapter chapter 25, right?

But if you look jesus answers those questions.

In a chronological manner in which they were asked and you know the disciples, uh, the disciples sitting here.

Look at this temple.

Look at this temple and you know, because uh, uh, This was the herodian temple and

it just got finished and then it got destroyed in 70 a .d.

And jesus turned around and looked at him goes you're looking at this temple.

I'm gonna and thank you.

Um, not one stone's left upon another but you know, just just to clarify this.

You know, some people say well matthew 24 Has already all taken place

in 70 in 70 a .d.

And and one of the verses I always ask them about that is verse 21.

I don't want to get too far into this.

Sure, but but it is worth as you study.

Keep an eye once again on good harmonics keep an eye on legitimate history.

Okay um, it is true that the temple was uh burnt down and Um, blah blah

blah blah in 70 a .d by the romans, but but here's something where jesus said it says for

at that time.

Now that's a time stamp.

It says at that time.

There will be a great tribulation.

No longer is just talking about Tribulation now, it's a great tribulation and now listen to this

the kind that hasn't taken place from the beginning of the world until now.

And never will again and there were quite a few jews killed you

know.

In jerusalem and that siege and that and that revolt but not such that never were seen right?

I mean, you can only you only have to walk forward to you know, uh, the 1930s and

40s.

Yeah, I mean you don't it's it's crazy to think that.

All of this in matthew 24 was fulfilled in 70 a .d because that is just not historically accurate.

And people people forget like it people only want to point to hitler, but you still got mao zedong.

You still got joseph stalin.

I mean, there were more people slaughtered by those two right and hitler ever dreamed of right?

So when people when people say that's what I was saying earlier is.

They read they read this but they want to skip over that verse or at least the last line of it

and and slaughterings have been happening for A long time right

thousands and thousands of years, right?

And sadly people are still slaughtered today.

Yes.

Um, and so that's just.

But but the point is is that there will come a time Where it will

reach a crescendo.

Yes that has never been mirrored in history past nor in history future and

that's something to think about.

Now that kind of leads us if you will into our next question.

Because you know if if i'm sitting here listening to you Too i'm getting a little nervous here,

uh, great slaughters and famines and pestilence and all these great birth pains.

So the question is am I a christian?

Gonna be here and that leads us into a great Segue into our next question and

again, i'll read it.

My pastor says there is no rapture.

Is this true now, may I say something before we begin?

Um one of the things that that that I want to always

do is pay respects to Other teachers and pastors whether it be atheists.

Uh, whether they be pastors whether they be agnostics evolutionists creationists, whatever.

Because we can have a discussion and we can even yes have a debate um, but

I don't ever want to get into a place where um that debate, uh brings

disharmony we we can we can reason together and When you figure out that i'm right and you're

wrong, we can then go out and have a steak dinner but no, really, I I just that the the the

Context of the question is my pastor says x is this true with all due respect.

I disagree with your pastor.

But I don't want that to become.

Um the point that's brought up it's irrelevant what your pastor believes it's irrelevant what I believe.

What's relevant is what does this say?

That's what's relevant.

So let's if I could just change your question just a bit and let's just leave it as.

Is there a rapture and is it true?

My short answer is yes, and there are people godlier than me that disagree.

Okay, my short answer is yes, and the people godly than me disagree.

But I would like to say first off and I think a lot of Dissensions too harsh

of a word disagreement will be a confusion of terms raised from the dead.

Resurrected and raptured are not all the same thing.

I agree.

Okay, there are Many people raised from the dead in the bible lazarus was

raised from the dead.

The boy with elijah was raised from the dead um.

But they were not given a new body resurrection.

When we speak of the resurrection of the dead that will happen to all who have died and then rapture.

Is those who are still alive?

So let me read a couple passages of scripture and let's say we're going to kind of define What a rapture is exactly

that's a good place to start.

So we'll do first thessalonians verse first thessalonians um chapter four

i'll start in verse 13.

But we don't want you to be uninformed brothers about those who are asleep that's dead.

That you may not grieve as the others do who have no hope.

For since we believe that jesus died and rose again, even so through jesus god will bring with him those who

have fallen asleep.

For this we declare to you by word from the lord that we who are alive Who are left

until the coming of the lord Will not precede those who have fallen asleep for the lord

himself would ascend from heaven with the cry of command in the voice of The archangel the sound of the trumpet and the dead in christ will rise

first.

Amen resurrection.

Then we who are still alive Who are left will be?

Caught up together.

With them in the clouds to meet the lord jesus there and we'll be with them always with the lord.

So The rapture the caught up the plucking out if you will.

Are those who are still alive at the coming of the lord?

And I had to do a little study when I saw this would be the question same word.

Is what's using john 14?

Well, no one will pluck them out of my hand.

Yeah, correct.

He will pluck his Saints from the surf those who are alive.

He will will be caught up in the cloud with them.

Now, who's them?

The dead in christ that he had raised first, so that's resurrection the dead in christ that were raised and

given a new body remember jesus with his new body

right.

You know, it's weird because you think about jesus's body and it is an embody.

Mary didn't recognize him at first, right?

Mary didn't recognize the first a couple days.

That's significant.

Also.

I like to point out that in his resurrected body.

He ate fish.

Amen, so we can maybe we can eat we can eat food.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

But first corinthians 15.

If you want to read some of that for yourself first corinthians 15 talks a lot about that.

That's exactly where i'm at now, but i'll just make sure I said it all right because I got raised to life

okay, so Lazarus was raised to life.

Okay resurrected giving you body so When we speak of the resurrection of the dead

that is the dead coming out of the graves at that day.

And god giving them their new bodies when we speak of the rapture.

Those are not those who have died when we speak of the rapture.

We are speaking of those who are still alive who remain at his country.

Can I draw something?

I think because some people get some of some people get confused on this.

Let let me let me explain to you.

First of all, there are only two classes of people.

It has nothing to do with skin tone.

It has nothing to do with culture.

Both of those are man -made construct.

The only two classes of people are saved.

And lost the sheep and the goats the sheep and the goats the wheat and the tares.

Whatever analogy you want to use that are saved and lost but in these two groups.

There you have to understand that there are the same that are physically still alive.

And there are the same who are physically dead.

Yes.

Okay, like we that are sitting here are the same the alive that are saved the same thing with the

lost.

There are the lost people that are alive non -christians who are physically alive.

And then there are lost people whose physical body is dead.

So when it talks in the in the passage of scripture that josiah just said The dead in christ

what it's what it's saying is that the dead the people who have physically died yet who are

Positionally in christ because remember when you're saved you are in christ positionally.

So I just wanted to point that out real quick right, so we Are physically

alive the apostle paul is physically dead, but we are all in christ.

Amen.

That's what we're saying.

That's what we're saying.

I wanted to read one more Brother jeremiah talks.

He just referenced first corinthians 15 very similar.

This is also written by paul.

Paul says this i'll just read the part that i'm referring to.

We will all i'm sorry, but hold on i'll tell you a mystery we shall not all sleep but we will all be

changed.

So and it goes on to speak whether we are the ones who have died physically before jesus comes back or

those of us Who are still alive at jesus's calling?

Okay, we won't all sleep not everyone's going to die there are going to be believers when he comes back.

But we will all be changed.

That's what paul is getting at when he speaks to being asleep, right?

Of course, we know he's referring to death.

Even paul didn't know The exact date of christ.

Yeah, he says, you know.

We who are still alive.

I don't know if that's going to be me or not.

Obviously, we know it wasn't but even he didn't know but whether you are alive in his return or you are dead.

We will all be changed, correct.

I I'd like to point out.

Um.

That and like I like what you said that yes, you believe but there are gali and men.

Than us who don't um that this is one of those

Theologies, this is not doctrine.

This is theology.

Well, the second coming is doctor.

Yeah, right.

Yeah, exactly.

When this is going to happen, right, right.

Um the fact that some christians don't believe that this is going to happen right here or right there.

Yeah, exactly.

That's that's that doesn't make them lost right or ungodly.

Um, if you go to revelation chapter 3 verse 10, it says this.

Uh, excuse me one second says this since you have kept my command to endure patiently

I will also keep you from the hour of trial that is going to come on the whole

world.

To test the inhabitants of the earth.

Okay, so it says the hour of trial.

That's a specific hour.

That's not just general and it's to the whole world.

That means that this is the judgment.

And he will save you from that trial which means that there is a saving a rapture of that if

you go to matthew 24.

It says this in verse.

Starting in 39.

And they know nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away.

That is how it will be at the coming of the son of man.

Two men will be in the field right one man will be taken and the other left.

Two women will be grinding with the handmail one will be taken in the other left.

I personally and like you said in the beginning no disrespect whatsoever.

I personally don't see how you get around that.

Um, I think it is very straightforward and very clear.

Um.

There's going to be two guys working and the one who's going to be gone um.

That's how I read that.

I I read that straightforward as it says.

Um, I don't think that's an allegory or metaphor for anything.

I think it means what it says and I want.

Again, because I want people to see where we're coming from the question was asked.

Is there a rapture?

When paul says we will not all sleep and the new testament commonly uses the word sleep to talk about people who are dead.

Jesus with uh, jarius's daughter.

Jerry's his daughter.

Uh, jesus with lazarus.

He told the disciples lazarus is asleep and they're like, okay, so he's getting rest.

He goes.

No, I mean he's dead in john chapter 11.

That's what I mean.

When paul says we will not all die I have to think that means we will not all

die.

I don't know.

There's no other way to read it.

And then it says we will not all sleep but we will all be changed and then he says it again in thessalonians.

The dead in christ will rise first dead in christ comma.

Then we who are alive comma still remain.

Will be caught up in the cloud with first thessalonians 4 and first corinthians 15.

Yes I think it's pretty clear along with the pastor.

My said yes, there's a rapture.

But when we say rapture, we mean those who are still alive at christ's return.

We are not referring to those who are dead in christ those who are physically dead.

Right.

We have no advantage of them because they're going to be raised to jesus paid for it all.

He paid for your body mind soul.

He's going to get it all they get they get raised first because they're six feet in ground.

We have a head start.

Okay, that's why they're raised first.

I think one other thing that's important to point out.

Especially to christians is to understand that the rapture the calling up of the

church.

Okay, we're we're here on earth and god calls us up to be with him and the

second coming of christ Are two completely different things the second coming of

christ is where christ comes back and literally rules.

For a thousand years here on the earth the rapture is the church goes to him.

And then after a period of time the church and jesus come back.

So church don't get those two things confused and here's the thing.

It's okay.

If some christians say I don't really believe that.

But all christians believe that jesus is coming again.

There's no there.

There's no this is a doctrine of absolute truth.

Yeah, okay.

I don't know any christians who disagree with that.

I don't know any either.

If you're a christian and you don't believe in christ's return, what is it?

I don't know.

Yeah, what are you looking forward to you have no hope you have no hope so these two are.

Are two different things.

Um, aisha, did y 'all have anything else?

Um I think.

Let's see.

No, I think we're good.

I think we have any questions aisha.

Oh, really?

That is surprising.

I thought for sure we would be inundated with questions on this.

Yeah.

If anybody does have any questions, I know some people um, we'll be watching this at a later time, right?

Um, if anyone does have any questions, please submit them.

You can go to the public witton page and you can message that page.

Um, we check that and if you have any questions on this topic or any other topic that you would like us to

address or answer.

Um, please go in there and uh, just let us know and we'll we'll try and get to those.

Also if you go on youtube, uh, we have a witton media ministry.

Um this video and along with many others we have already done and will be doing are being

posted to that page um.

We ask that you subscribe to that.

But if you just if you want to review this or see anything else that we've talked about or we'll be talking about.

You can go there as well to uh to see all these and I also want to uh open this up to you

um.

We have done a lot of extensive teaching on this and and basically we have Um

a lot of material that we've written over the years about millennial theology and and

eschatology um the study of those end times if you would like any of that just

simply Uh, drop us.

Uh, let's say drop us a line.

Can you I didn't make myself Drop us a line in the mail.

And uh, we'd be sure to get that to you but no seriously you can uh, let us know on the witton public

facebook page.

Hey, I would like a copy of any materials about what you were talking tonight and uh, we can send

Uh some of those to you and I will say about these notes.

I've read just about all of them um, and and what they do and it's

really beneficial for everyone, um.

To really pay attention to is that it explains each point of view.

Um, we Mainly just talked about one point of view tonight.

Um, just due to time restraints.

Um, there are people who disagree with this and um, and that's fine and they have some valid

points.

Absolutely.

Um, there are some Uh script they didn't just come up with in thin air.

All right, so there are some valid points to what they're saying.

Um, and these notes are much more extensive Um, and it goes and explains each point of view

Um so that you can go and study that on your own one of the things that we try to do is Within the realm of

theology, of course not with heresy or lies.

But within the realms of theology, there are different points of view.

There are different Ideas and and we can still all be brothers and sisters in christ because

we agree on the main doctrines Of the word of god, but theology it can be loose

it truly can be and some person may be uh to give you some of the terms may be uh, an

amillennialist and some people may be a pre -tribulational Pre -millennialist and

then there are so many different titles within the theology and that's okay.

That's okay but one of the things we try to do here at witness when we teach each all points of view

And you don't have to believe what the pastor believes, right?

I mean that that's just silly like jeremiah and I have just slightly different viewpoints

on the rapture as far as When it will occur we both agree I think that it will

occur but we have differing points of view on When it will occur as far as within that tribulation

period and that's fine for him to be wrong.

So so, um The point is guys is that let's let's reason let's

study let's talk let's discuss because I'll tell you this um the the the

culture here at whitton is is is that we want to learn and we want to

disciple and uh the the average slice of of the church here at whitton are

extremely well educated christians who Um, not only understand doctrine but

able to talk about a host of theology as well.

So I encourage you uh, read other viewpoints within uh, the theology stream

and and and be able to discuss them openly.

Because you know what?

You might be wrong.

I might be wrong.

So, uh, that's important.

I think for us to do and one thing that I I hear a lot and I want people to understand is

do not Discredit or undermine the importance of studying theology.

Absolutely.

Maybe that's a topic we can hit another time but I mean scripture talks often about defending the gospel

and having a reason to for the belief of any reason of the hope you have right any

reason for the hope you have um, and so there's a different verses as well, but Studying

theology is extremely important.

Um, and I think sometimes uh Today in the church, we say well if you know that jesus came died and

loves you.

Yeah, then you're good.

Yeah.

Don't worry about it.

And I think that though that is the very pinnacle and cornerstone I agree, but but

Do not undermine or discredit the studying of theology.

Particularly since the bible that tells you that jesus loved and died for you also tells you to study this.

And it took the time to write it all I wanted to say this.

If there's been any and and look if if you if.

If we were unclear about something you want further explanation, we'd be glad to give it.

That's what the of course inbox is for but first corinthians 15 Is what these two gentlemen were

echoing a minute ago?

Paul tells the church of corinth after 14 chapters of writing.

Let me make sure you got this straight.

I want to write to you what's of first importance.

There you go.

The gospel preaches you that jesus christ.

Who came was died was crucified was buried according to the scriptures according to the scriptures appeared to

cephas and the other Peter and the other 12.

According to the scriptures he was witnessed by 500 people and he ascended according to his so you see of first

importance is a life death.

Uh burial and resurrection of jesus christ that was all according to the scriptures.

That were fulfilled by the scriptures, right?

Which means that they were viewing the old testament.

And and the new testament fulfillment of the old testament, that's all god's work those right there of what's those first importance.

That's that's where what we're saying when we said a minute ago.

Those doctrinal things if you are a true christian you believe in those because the bible tells you those.

But if there's things of first importance we have to believe there's something of second.

Which is still important, but it's not primary essential to the christian faith is what we're getting at.

I use the old stephen covey thing.

A good mormon.

Uh, I use the old stephen covey thing.

He was a time management group guru and he used to teach there are things that are important.

There are things that are urgent and there are things that are critical.

Yeah, and and you know doctrine is critical.

It really is how you play that doctrine out is urgent.

And then what does that look like in your daily life?

Um, those things might be important, but they're not critical the word of god says that jesus christ

cornerstone.

That his death, burial and resurrection according to the scriptures.

Yes.

Is that centric point of why we're able to sit here today?

Yeah.

Yeah.

He's he's lord.

Whosoever calls him in the name of the lord.

Not just your savior lord those type of things.

Kurios right.

All right.

Well guys, I hope you've enjoyed this.

Do you have anything else?

No, sorry, do you have anything?

Um, well guys, I know we have enjoyed this.

Yes, we had a question.

We do have a question.

Okay, what is the question?

Uh, could y 'all explain first samuel 16 14?

First samuel 16 14.

That's right before second samuel.

Oh I wonder who it's about.

Um, this guy named bob.

All right first samuel, what'd you say 16 14?

Yes.

Okay, um, are you uh when you say explain it, um,.

What do you mean by explain?

I'm gonna take a wild guess here.

And I think what you're asking me or what you're asking is.

The holy spirit left saul and then an evil spirit entered in.

Um, this question has been posed several times to me over the years with a lot of people

asking it.

In relation to they feel like the holy spirit's left them and they're no longer a christian and they're going to go to hell.

Do y 'all see this?

Sort of as that's what they're asking.

I think when they say that's it for those of you Who don't have your bibles with you the spirit of the lord departed from saul the king

Saul and a harmful spirit from the lord tormented them.

So yeah, I think that's what they're getting at.

Um y 'all mind if I take this one?

Go ahead.

Um, well one of the things you have to understand is the difference between once again.

The old testament the new testament is the role that the holy spirit plays now you have to understand

back then.

Back then the holy spirit did not dwell.

With men in other words live with men in other words right now first corinthians 16.

Uh, uh, first corinthians 316 says that the holy spirit lives when it is we

are the temple.

Well back then they had a temple made with hands right and and the spirit of god when he would come upon

people.

It was just for a short time like with samson, you know, the spirit of the lord came upon him.

Yeah, and the spirit of the lord left it says that often, right?

Every time he says the spirit of the lord came on him.

Yeah, and the reason why is because jesus hadn't gone to the cross yet to make that final payment to make

mankind a suitable dwelling place for the spirit of god.

So here we have king saul and king saul.

You got to remember why they chose him as king of israel.

And here's why they chose him.

You can go back and read they chose him because he was a head taller than everybody else.

Good looking.

Yeah, he was good looking now.

I mean i'm so glad we're out lord.

I'm glad we've matured in politics today.

That we have more substantive measures and metrics in which we measure politicians, but anyways

Saul when he started out he was listening to lord, but eventually.

Um, saul began to be silly.

He began to be stupid.

He turned his back on god.

And uh god was sitting there going.

Hey, son, you best get right and here god is getting his attention.

Um, and he's trying to get his attention.

But the spirit of the lord left saul and this was at a moment I believe when he was trying to

get saul's attention saul would not repent saul would not submit and so the spirit of god

Moved away.

And and then it says and here's the second part an evil spirit sent from the lord began to

torment him.

Now I know that that doesn't sit well with some people to say that God uses evil

spirits.

Listen to me.

And I need you to wrap your head around this one, okay.

There is nothing in the entire universe.

Either in the physical world of time space and matter or in the spiritual world.

That is not at the behest.

Yes, and the bidding of a sovereign god.

Yes.

Okay, there is nothing that thwarts the will of god.

There is no plan a no plan b god used pharaoh in egypt.

God used babylon.

God used nineveh, right?

And he's told never I want you to punish the uh, the israelites gonna.

You went too far.

Sorry.

I'm gonna punish you now.

God uses pilot and herod pilot and herod god uses whom he wants to use

including um the demonic horde or including um.

Ever that because of saul's disbelief and because of his refusal to repentance the spirit

of lord left him.

And then god used an evil spirit of torment now when it says torment.

It doesn't mean that god was sitting there waterboarding him.

Okay, it was a torment once again um a chastisement if you will.

Um, and and god remember that god is constantly trying to cause his people to turn back

to him.

I mean, that's eventually why he sent jesus.

Can I make a comment?

Yeah, please do so.

Uh, i've been going through the book of james and james chapter one

says Count all joy my brothers when you face various trials known as testing of your faith produces endurance.

And I posed it.

To those listening to my audience.

I was like If you're a christian.

And this is your.

I'll pretend like I was naked.

You're gonna tell me I should count joy when i'm going through depression when I have an anxiety when I do this or when?

This happened or I lost so -and -so.

What.

But it is all for the returning as you said back to the lord and this is the question I posed.

I said, okay.

A hardship came into your life.

And you didn't listen and another hardship came into your life.

If god did not allow that hardship to come into your life for you to realize him and turn back.

How far would you kept walking?

Oh, yeah, he'd be gone down the road.

How far?

Would you have gone before you realized on your own?

It wasn't gonna happen.

My point is you would never have realized that's right.

That that hardship was allowed an order and necessary for you to turn back because I mean.

How long?

Would you have walked before you realized?

How much scar tissue would you have had baggage and and it's like lord warns you and you didn't

listen lord warns you.

And you didn't listen like hey Lord warned you didn't listen and finally you're like, oh god.

Why did you let that happen?

I was like.

You're the one Who's continued to do this?

You're the one who's continuing to walk down the wrong road.

You're the one who's turning your back on god.

So the one he says son.

Then you get time we turn around and get mad at him.

In a summary kind of echoing what they said in the old testament the holy spirit came upon.

People of god in the new testament.

He indwells he lives within them.

In fact, you know you think of in exodus you read the ten commandments exodus 20 and then you spend Chapters

on chapters of them building a tabernacle.

You're right that god lives in.

Then you read john 1 14 and says and the word became flesh and tabernacled.

It's the verb tabernacled among us and then jesus leaves and then pentecost and the holy spirit is indwelling.

So god is going to live on earth whether through the tabernacle his son.

Or through his spirit in the lives of believers.

So his father the son and the holy spirit.

Well, he's our god and savior.

Oh.

Very good God's presence has has not left it came upon samson.

Then two chapters later has to come on and again jim and that's come on again.

He fights the lions and all that stuff in the new testament.

The holy spirit lives within us know you not that you are a temple god and the holy spirit dwells within you.

Correct.

We and that's one of the things I always try to tell.

Uh pastors and church peoples at different conferences and teachings is is that the church?

The tabernacle of god is sitting in this room right now.

That's right.

It's not the room.

It's not we are the tabernacle god.

We are the church literally you're looking at the church.

Yes, okay.

It's all believers no matter who you are or where you are.

You are you can't go to church.

You are the church.

The holy spirit now dwells within believers.

I hope that answered your question.

If you need more clarification just let us know we'll be able to do that guys, we really enjoy answering

questions.

Please feel free to ask them and uh, we will answer them.

Um in turn go ahead.

You know.

The verse I quoted earlier genesis 50 20 whoever asked this question, I want you to go read that verse.

It's what I quoted earlier.

Joseph looks at his brothers who sold him into slavery.

And said that whole thing you planned it for evil.

But god planned it for good to bring about this present result the survival of many people what I told earlier.

About how the jewish people should have starved to death.

They didn't because Joseph's brothers sold him into slavery and he rose to power and

they planned all that for evil, but god planned that for good with no evil

intention.

So nothing happens outside the behest of our sovereign god.

But for those of us who love him are called according his purpose.

It works to the good even if we don't see it at the good at that time.

I have plans for you for good not of evil all the days of your life say the lord.

Amen.

All right.

Was there anything else?

If not, well, then I guess we're good to go guys.

Once again, I want to encourage you.

Please what brother jeremiah said, um, please go to youtube and subscribe To

whitton media ministries and ring a bell.

I'm still not sure what that exactly means, but everybody keeps telling me to say ring

a bell.

So when you go and subscribe to youtube, please ring the bell also.

Please on this whitton baptist church public facebook page, please like

and comment and please share this with others as guys,

we're not trying to Solicit money or membership guys.

The only thing we're trying to do is get the word of god out to people who have the questions.

May the lord bless you.

Do you have any other closing comments to you?

Well, may the lord bless you this evening.

I hope you've enjoyed it and we will see you tomorrow morning at 10 30 Central

time.

10 30 central time and we'll be in psalms chapter 40.

Psalms chapter 40.

Tomorrow morning at 10 30.

We'll start out with our assistant music minister.

Uh, they're the hunter wilson.

We call him honey bunny.

He loves that by the way, and uh, we'll have a time of worship and praise.

I encourage you to gather your family Around your computer or tv screen and praise

the lord with us.

And then we will hear from psalms chapter 40 and then tomorrow night at six o 'clock

again central time.

Brother.

Josiah will be leading a bible study and then Wednesday brother

jeremiah will be leading one at 5 30.

And then we will have our regular bible study time at 7 30.

Don't forget also our women of witton ministries is on thursdays.

And don't forget our associate pastor pastor benjamin talley is on every morning at 10

Central time and then our wonderful music minister Pandrew brother

andrew cook he gives various backgrounds and histories.

Uh to different hymns and it's just something they will.

Yeah.

It just might be something that would give you a word of encouragement.

We're going to continue to try to encourage our brothers and sisters in christ and people around the world.

Uh with these just little tidbits and I hope you take stock in them.

And I hope you understand that at the end of the day, it doesn't matter what men do.

We are doing nothing but trying to point you to a sovereign and graceful god.

May god bless you this evening, and we will see you tomorrow.