Reasonable Latino Here to Help! - James White Part 1

AD Robles

Subscribe

Download

Share

00

Why Dr. James White Hasnt Debated Dr Stephen Wolfe - Part 2A

00:00

Today's show is sponsored by Curios Consulting. That is Curios with a Y. K -Y -R -I -O -S.

00:07

Real estate investing can be intimidating. That's why you don't do it alone. Curios Consulting gets you from no real estate to your first rental property.

00:16

My friend Steve did it right here in New Hampshire, and he wants to help other Christians do the same.

00:21

Visit consultingbycurios .com. Again, that's with a Y, consultingbycurios .com.

00:27

No more excuses. The world needs more Christians with passive income, not more passive Christians.

00:32

Make it happen. The link is in the description. Dead, everybody. I'm not dead.

00:40

At least not yet. I was just in Florida.

00:49

I was just in Florida for a time. Spent about a month all over the place, but mostly in Cape Coral, Florida, southwest

00:57

Florida. And it was great, man. I was intended on doing some videos during the trip, but it just didn't work out that way.

01:05

And so here I am. I'm back. Thank you for all the concerned messages and all the well wishes and all that kind of thing.

01:13

It's been a good time off. Let me just say that. I was working for most of the time, but I did take a week and a half or so off.

01:21

And it's been great, man. We're checking out Cape Coral, Tallahassee, Pensacola, Orlando area.

01:29

Just a big white pill. There's so many good churches out there, believers everywhere.

01:35

It was just a fun time. I've got a lot of fishing stories. I'll spare you that at the beginning here, but at some point they'll come out.

01:42

But suffice it to say that Florida is a fishing paradise. I mean, as you might expect, it is just awesome.

01:51

But I got to visit Tom Askell's church and a few CRECs, and it was just wonderful.

01:56

Just a wonderful experience all around. White pills for days, man. I don't know how you can be black billed these days.

02:02

I just don't know. I just don't know. And so, yeah, back in New Hampshire now, and man, it's beautiful here.

02:09

It's just like in the seventies. I think it's the seventies. Yeah. In the seventies, sunny. Just, yeah,

02:15

I missed New Hampshire. I'll be honest. I really like Florida, but New Hampshire is fun.

02:21

A lot of things have happened. Yeah. A lot of things have happened and we're going to get into it. I might do one of my patented, you know, eight to eight part series.

02:30

And we're going to, we're going to talk about Dr. James White has, he's blown a gasket.

02:39

Well, maybe not, maybe he hasn't blown a gasket, but he's definitely perturbed. You might, you might say perturbed.

02:44

I think it is okay to say that Dr. James White is perturbed just a little bit.

02:53

And it's continuing even to this day, even to this moment, it's it's noon on the 5th of September and his perturbation.

03:03

Is that how you say it? Perturbation? He's very, he's still perturbed. I will say that.

03:09

And we're going to get into it. And one of the things I wanted to talk about as we kind of set the stage here is, is maturity, you know, maturity, because that is something that does bother

03:21

James White. I think Dr. James White, he's kind of recognized a lack of maturity in a lot of people on the right reform people.

03:34

It does bother him. And he gets into a little bit of that here. Um, and the thing about maturity is that it's, it can be hard to define, you know what

03:45

I mean? When you're trying to define what maturity actually is, it can be difficult to pinpoint it, but you know it when you see it kind of thing, but it can also be deceptive.

03:56

You know, you've, you've got people that, um, like to, like to have a good time, like to joke around, you know, like to meme and stuff like that, but are also very mature.

04:06

And then you also could have people that, you know, they wear suits and bow ties and, and, um, and they've got buttoned up language and they're very intelligent and, you know, things like that.

04:19

And they don't demonstrate a lot of maturity sometimes. And everybody's a mixed bag.

04:26

You know, there are times when I can be immature. There's just no question about that. And then there are other times where, you know, my maturity is obvious.

04:34

And, uh, this is not, uh, to, to kind of puff myself up, but, but one thing that I work really hard at, this is just, it does not come naturally to me.

04:43

Um, but I know it's a, it's something that I need to work at, um, and that I feel like I've been semi -successful at is, uh, being able to, to be friendly and to, um, uh, have, have, have relationships with people that don't agree with me on things and have no problem telling me, you know what

05:04

I mean? And I've said this before, but I'll say it again. Like I credit a lot of that to my brother because my brother, my biological brother, he, um, he's two years younger than me, very smart guy.

05:14

He's a minister, uh, he's an elder in a PCA church. And, um, you know, he's, he's, he's great because he's not impressed with me at all.

05:24

Um, so we agree on so many things, but there are certain things that we don't agree on. And, you know, he has no problem telling me how ridiculous

05:32

I am or how stupid I am and stuff like that. He's just not impressed with me. Um, and, and I mean that in a nice way, like we get along great and he is impressed with me in certain areas, but he doesn't think

05:44

I'm all that, you know what I mean? So he, he has no problem telling me. And over time that kind of trains you to sort of real, to, to know how to deal with controversies, you know, and stuff like that.

05:54

And I'm not saying I do it perfectly every time, but, but I try, I work really hard at it. And I've had a number of conversations with brothers that have, uh, have commended me for that.

06:05

Um, in fact, I was talking to one, uh, CRC minister in, uh, in the Georgia, Atlanta, Georgia area.

06:11

And, you know, he, he kind of, he kind of mentioned this to me that, you know, he's impressed with my ability to take a criticism and, you know, actually take it to heart if it's meaningful.

06:22

And, and the reason why I was able to do this, this has to do, if you remember, uh, I was kind of called out for being disrespectful to, um,

06:31

Ligon, Ligon Duncan. Um, and I was called out for that. And, you know, in the next video, I thought his, his call out was correct.

06:38

And then the next video, I kind of changed course. And I, you know, I asked, you know, I asked for forgiveness where appropriate.

06:45

And I said, Hey, I was wrong to, to imply this or say this, or I remember, I don't remember the details exactly, but, um, you know, and, and the reason why

06:52

I was able to do that is because the, the criticism came from somebody who is, it was timely is what it was.

07:00

You know what I mean? And this is a key part of maturity, right? Like at any given time, there's, there's always opportunities to correct people.

07:07

There's always people out there that are doing something stupid or wrong or imbalanced and stuff like that. And when you're friends with someone, when you're friendly with someone, you don't even have to be friends with them, but if you're friendly with them, one of the keys to maturity is to know when, when your words will be heard, you know what

07:25

I mean? When, when, when, when it's the right time to, to call somebody out. And also like, and also like you have to have a, one of the keys of maturity,

07:36

I think is to have a sense of proportion. You know what I mean? Because some things they're not correct.

07:43

They're not right. They're, they're sins before God, but they're really not that big a deal.

07:48

And when you're friendly with someone, it can be a good thing to, to maybe overlook something because if you're constantly nitpicking and correcting all the time, it has a very low likelihood of actually being heard.

08:01

I'm not saying it's necessarily wrong to do it, but it's not wise. It's not mature. And I'll give you an example.

08:07

Like you have a friend, let's just say you have a friend who ordinarily he's very measured with his language and he doesn't curse.

08:16

Let's just say he doesn't, he doesn't use profanities. And and you know, one day you, you see him in an altercation and there's a random guy in the street and he's, you know, being belligerent and stuff like that.

08:31

And he comes after this guy to attack him or to, to confront him or something.

08:37

He's just a belligerent, maybe he's drunk or something, who knows? And you're there with your friend and you see your friend and he uses a profanity, right?

08:45

He uses a profanity in that moment. You know what I mean? I'm not going to, you can imagine what he might say. And, you know, you know, that might not be the time.

08:58

I'm just gonna, you know, call me crazy, but that might not be the moment to, anyway, sorry for the interruption.

09:07

That might not be the time to say, hey, you know, Christians should be, you know, measured in their speech and not use profanity.

09:14

Like maybe it is the right time, but you got to consider like, hey, it's, this is not necessarily the time.

09:21

On the other hand, if you've got a guy and just a friend claiming the name of Christ and just in common language, he's

09:28

F this and F that and, you know, okay, there's going to be a good opportunity there for you to talk to him.

09:35

And so there's just, there's a level of maturity that you need to make sure that the big deals become big deals and the small deals, you know, they're small deals.

09:46

You know what I mean? That's, that's, that's, you know, part of being mature, knowing, you know, when to address something, when not to, and all this kind of thing.

09:55

And so anyway, all that to say is this, this, this whole situation with the

10:01

Crusades, and now it's continued to talk about Winston Churchill. It has been very interesting to watch.

10:09

And we're going to, we're going to go into this video. This is the, I think this is the first video that, that Dr. James White addresses this.

10:16

And I'm just going to talk to him as if he's going to listen to this. I doubt he will, because there'll be eight parts.

10:24

But I'm going to talk to this as if you'll listen to it. And, and I think that there's a lot of things and a lot of lessons we can all learn about how to, how to get along with people online, how to get along with people, how to, how to engage people in a way that, that they'll hear you.

10:41

Because, you know, one of the things that Dr. White kind of says in this is that he feels like people haven't heard him.

10:47

You know, they're not hearing him. And I think I know why. So I'm going to give you my opinion on that.

10:55

And I'm going to give you some advice on how to, how to handle this, because I don't, I don't have any bad feelings towards Dr.

11:01

James White. I, you know, I don't watch as much AOMN as I used to. I used to watch every episode, but I don't anymore.

11:10

And but I still do watch it. If I, if I see something that I'm interested in a topic that I'm interested in,

11:15

I'll watch it and stuff like that. He has a lot of good things to say. And I think, you know, you are doing yourself a disservice if you're kind of doing one of these things where, you know, he's done this one thing that I don't like, or this few things that I don't like.

11:31

And so he's, I'm done with him. You know what I mean? And Dr. White even addresses that, which is so ironic because just a couple of days ago, after this video was, was put out, he does the same thing.

11:44

He does the same thing that he's so upset that people do with him. He does the same thing.

11:49

Oh, I can't believe this trajectory. I, you know, I was so hopeful about, I got so much from him, but I'll, you know, it's just very, it's very, it's very interesting.

11:59

Anyway, let's, let's begin. I don't know how far we'll get, but we'll try. Agree. Disagree.

12:08

Just wanted to put that out there. Like I said, Doug Wilson, his current blog,

12:14

MA blog, pretty much along the same lines. All right. Next.

12:25

Yeah. I don't even know how to, the, the level of frustration is very high.

12:32

Does this guy have a full sleeve here? Is that real? Is that a shirt or is that his skin?

12:43

Wow. I did not know that. Very interesting. Very interesting indeed.

12:49

You know, I will say I have a, I have a special place in my heart for Dr. James White because he reminds me very much of my own father.

12:55

He really does. Um, in many ways, my dad is not exactly like Dr.

13:01

James White, obviously, but there's a lot of similarities just in the way that they talk and the things that they are interested in and all of that kind of stuff.

13:10

My dad's, my dad is a very similar man. I'll say that right now for me. I don't even know how to start in the last 19 minutes of the program.

13:22

You know, so you see how he started that he says is high levels of frustration. He's very frustrated by this. Um, and you know, in my opinion,

13:30

Dr. James White, take it or leave it. I mean, I'm only 42 years old, you know what I mean? Uh, or 41 rather.

13:37

I'm only 41 years old, but in my opinion, and this is something that I've practiced in my own life, that if you're very frustrated about something,

13:45

I would wait. I would wait. I've made this mistake before where I fire up the camera to talk about something

13:53

I'm very frustrated about. Um, and it doesn't ever go the way I want it to go.

13:58

Um, and so, um, if you're so frustrated about something, maybe wait before you address it.

14:04

Just my opinion, just my opinion to express the amazement that is mine at what is going on in what was once called the reformed community.

14:15

Now, maybe, maybe we've always just had way too malleable definitions, what it means to be reformed.

14:22

And maybe we just figured if everybody shows up at the same conferences, that means they're reformed.

14:28

I, I don't know. I, I, you know, this is how he frames the whole thing.

14:33

And this is where, you know, a lot of my, um, my own criticisms begin. Um, he says that, uh, he's very frustrated and he's amazed about what is going on in what was once called the reformed community.

14:49

As if, you know, and it's as if there's, there's question about that now, this might not even be the reformed community anymore.

14:58

And, um, it, it, it really does come across as if the dividing line of what is and isn't reformed really starts and ends with this program.

15:10

Um, and, um, a lot of my Presbyterian brothers, of course, are going to laugh about that because it's completely ridiculous, but, but that's how it comes across, uh, throughout this whole presentation that, that these people, they say they're reformed.

15:26

Yeah. Maybe because they went to a few conferences. We used to go to the same conferences, but they're really not reformed.

15:33

You know, that's in question. Now, a lot of these guys and some of the names that he's, he actually says and who he's responding to.

15:40

It's just, it's very, it's very off -putting. I said this in a Twitter video. It's just so off -putting that, that you would attempt to call into question, uh, their, their, their

15:50

Protestantism even. And I'm one of these guys that I don't care what you call me. I mean, I am reformed obviously, and I think it's helpful to have labels that mean something, but, but I don't really care about the reformed clubs.

16:04

I mean, I'm not that into that kind of stuff. I never really attended these kinds of conferences. You know what I mean? I never went to a

16:10

G3 conference. I would go, I suppose, if I was invited and it was convenient, but I'm not like tripping over myself to get tickets to the next reformed conference.

16:20

You know what I mean? So, um, that's, that's how he kind of frames this and starts this.

16:26

It used to be called the, it was once called the reformed community, uh, as if he's the decider, he's the dividing line.

16:32

You know what I mean? And it's just, it's so, uh, it's off -putting, it's preposterous, and it just gets worse from there.

16:38

Let's just continue. But the red avatar, blue eye gang, and I don't see as many of them over the past couple of days because I've banned,

16:50

I've blocked so many of them. And so maybe they're saying all sorts of stuff about what I've been saying. I don't know.

16:55

I, I don't think they are because normally when people have blocked or commenting on my stuff, you'll see it in your thread.

17:03

You'll see, you know, that this person protects their, who gets to read their whatever.

17:09

So you sort of see that it's interrupted. You see some of your friends responding to people and you can recognize you've blocked somebody and you can look and see what's being said.

17:20

Anyway, I started teaching church history professionally, um, in 1990.

17:34

I was scholar in residence at Grand Canyon University.

17:40

I think it had become university by then. And I was asked to teach church history, which

17:48

I love doing. Uh, here's another thing that's kind of a constant drumbeat in all of this, you know, and especially if you go onto his

17:55

Twitter feed, this is what you're going to see. It's, it's, and, and, and listen, let me say this.

18:01

Let me say this. If you choose to engage in Twitter, which I regularly don't.

18:07

I mean, if you look at my interactions on Twitter, a lot of it is just normal stuff and has nothing to do with important issues.

18:16

But then some of it is more important and I'll get the reply guys and stuff like that. And if you look at that,

18:22

I rarely reply at all. Number one, that's a rarity. And if I do reply, it's even rarer for me to get to, for me to reply more than once.

18:32

That's just how I operate on Twitter. Uh, I'm not against people who operate differently.

18:37

I'm just saying that's how I choose to do it. But if you do choose to do it, I, I, I know you think this helps you,

18:44

Dr. White. It doesn't to, to, to, to, to, to throw your resume out there.

18:50

You know, I've been teaching, you know, church history for 20 years, however long it is. I don't, I don't really know.

18:56

I've done this many moderated debates and I've done this and all that. Like you, you do this all the time.

19:02

And I know you think it helps you. It doesn't help you when you're engaging on Twitter.

19:09

It makes you look defensive. It makes you look pompous.

19:16

I'm not saying that, that you are these things. I'm just saying, that's how it comes across.

19:21

It doesn't help you in the way you think it does. Your cheerleaders are going to cheer you.

19:27

Of course, that's always how it is, but you're actually not engaging the other side.

19:33

You're, you're, you're, it's a waste. You're wasting your time is what, what I'm, what I'm trying to say. You're wasting your time because here's the thing.

19:42

Your credentials matter and they matter to me and they matter to, to, to anyone who is honest.

19:49

Like we all love the fact that you've done these things and sure, it does give you a, an air of credibility, but all of it doesn't matter in the moment of your interaction.

20:06

It looks like a subterfuge. It looks like, it looks like a, a, like a ploy.

20:12

That's what it comes across. Like, especially in these times, you, you, you keep asking, you know, and you'll do this numerous times, uh, what's changed.

20:22

I haven't changed. Who's changed. And the thing is, that something has changed.

20:28

Something definitely has changed. So if you're asking who's changed, what's changed,

20:34

I haven't changed. I've been saying the same thing for my whole life. I believe you, but lots of stuff has changed because now post

20:45

COVID post, uh, you know, the, the stolen election, all of this stuff, people don't care about how much authority cred you have.

20:56

They don't because they've been scammed by it again and again, and again, and again.

21:03

And I'm not saying you're scamming us with your credentials, but I'm saying we don't care about, we don't put too much stock in it anymore.

21:13

The PhD doesn't matter to us. In fact, if anything, it's suspicious.

21:20

It shouldn't be that way, but it is. It shouldn't be that way, but it is. And, and I think you know this because you've talked many times about how, you know, these days that that doesn't really mean that you understand anything.

21:33

You got the PhD. It doesn't actually mean that you have a good understanding about how this connects to this.

21:39

And in fact, I think in this episode, if I'm not mistaken, or maybe it's the next one, you're talking about, uh, uh, intelligent design and you even bring this, this up.

21:51

So every single time I'm, I'm, I'm trying to help you, Dr. White. I really am. Every single time you go into this whole resume that you have, it doesn't do the work you think it does.

22:07

If you want to reach people, you're gonna have to put that aside. You're going to have to let your words have authority in themselves, not give us your resume.

22:17

We don't care. And it looks suspicious. That's what

22:24

I'm saying. I've watched you for so long. So I know you're not scamming us with your, with your, with your resume.

22:32

I know you're not. I know you've done the work you've been there. You've done it, but not everybody's me.

22:40

Not everybody knows you. It doesn't do the work you think it does. I, if, if, if, if I were your social media coach, which

22:49

I'm not, but if I was, I would tell you stop every single time you're tempted to say,

22:57

I've done this many debates. How many debates have you done? Have you done any debates? I've done debates. Every single time you're tempted to do that, just slap your fingers.

23:08

You're about to type it out. Just give it a nice whack. Don't do it.

23:14

It doesn't help you one iota and it hurts you. Your fans know your resume and they love it.

23:22

I love your resume. I love it. I already know it. Everybody else, it looks, it does the opposite of what you're trying to make it do.

23:33

It's not good. If I was your coach, I'm not, if you could take one piece of advice for me, cut that out and you would be way more effective.

23:41

I've got a lot of advice for you though. So get a nice deep seat in the saddle. I can sort of tell a lot of the students when they came in were, you know, requirement, we got to sort of get through it.

23:54

I was really proud. It made it as my goal, honestly, that first year to have them excited about the subject by the time we got done with the semester.

24:03

And I think I accomplished that. I know you accomplished it. But one of the subjects that I had to address was the subject of the crusades.

24:17

And there was very little controversy in that particular point in time regarding the crusades.

24:28

There's another thing that's changed, Dr. James White, because, because you've asked, you know,

24:34

I haven't changed. I've the same message I've done. Fine. And I believe you. I have no reason to ever question that.

24:40

I'm sure you've said the same thing for your whole life. I get it. I get it. But something has changed and you need to recognize that change.

24:50

And I'm not saying you adjust your message, but you do need to recognize who you're dealing with.

24:56

If you're going to be a teacher, you're going to be an apologist, then you have to know your audience.

25:03

You taught me that, Dr. White. You taught me that. In fact, that's why

25:08

I spent my hard -earned dollars on your book about Muslim apologetics.

25:15

I said this on Twitter. I'll say it here. I had a number of Muslim friends and I had listened to your program so many times about various issues in Islam.

25:26

I remember, you know, the Ergin -Kanner stuff, the controversies there and all that. And I loved what you had to say.

25:33

It was very helpful. I bought the book because I wanted to talk to my Muslim friends. I wanted to know where they were coming from.

25:40

I wanted to know about their beliefs or at least their confession. And I wanted to, I wanted to be able to know that.

25:46

So that way I could adjust what I said, not the content of what I said, but I could pick and choose different areas to talk about that I knew would be understandable to them.

26:01

That would be, that would be meaningful to them. I would change, you know, how I would present things based on, you know, what their assumptions were because I learned about what their assumptions were based on a lot of what you said.

26:18

But things have, something has changed. There wasn't a lot of controversy about the Crusades before.

26:25

Okay. But something has changed. People that have never thought about this kind of stuff before are starting to think about it in a new way because we've seen how they create narratives out of thin air.

26:42

We've seen how they do it in real time. We've seen it. It's happened.

26:48

And so logically people are starting to think, look, I'm not saying that this is necessarily always going to lead you to the truth.

26:56

But what I am saying is that this is a logical progression of thought. Man, they're lying to us.

27:05

I'm starting to think that they're lying to us. Okay.

27:11

When did they start lying to us? When did they start?

27:17

Well, it was, was my, was my teacher, Mrs. Jeffries in elementary school lying to me too?

27:23

They're starting to think that through. And that can be dangerous, of course, but also it's understandable.

27:40

It's logical to think through when did the lies begin? And, and, and the thing that we learned too, is that it's not complete lies.

27:52

It's not like it's a lie that, you know, we just created it out of thin air and it's not related to reality in any way.

27:59

It's just, no, no, it's not like that. There's, there's real aspects to the lies, but the whole narrative is spun.

28:07

And you know this because you've talked about this on your show, to make it a lie, a complete lie.

28:14

And so people are thinking, and these are logical people. These are good reformed

28:19

Christians. They're not ostensibly reformed. They're reformed. And they're thinking through, well, when did the lies begin?

28:26

And how, how, how wrong were they? How much of a lie was it? How much of it was truth? How much of it was lie?

28:32

And they're thinking through that. That's, that's a change that's been happening since the last time or the first time you spoke on the

28:40

Crusades. That's something that people are waking up to. And so what would be really needed right now, in my opinion, is, is, is somebody like you, somebody like you, to put their arms around people like that and to talk to them like they're rational, like they're reasonable, and to understand that they're questioning, in your mind, they're questioning lots of stuff that you don't think they should be questioning, but that's the perspective they're coming from.

29:15

That's the paradigm. How do I reach those people? And I'm telling you, Dr. White, throwing your resume in front of them isn't going to do any good.

29:23

And you know exactly why it's not going to do any good, because you talk about why.

29:29

You talk about why. 9 -11 hadn't happened yet.

29:40

Militant Islam was not a major issue in the

29:45

West at that point in time. And so when

29:51

I presented the Crusades, I presented them from a

29:57

Protestant, biblical perspective. And that is, they were originated by the papacy and by key figures within the

30:16

Roman Catholic Church, and they were given a religious foundation.

30:23

Now, there wasn't any question. The papacy was already very politically involved, and you had all the political division in Italy and very powerful city -states that, you know, you had to work around those things.

30:41

And certainly, for example, the time when the Crusaders sacked Constantinople, because they were basically paid to do so by the people who were providing them with transportation instead of...

30:52

That's a long walk from Europe to the Middle East. Okay, yes. We don't even think about stuff like that.

30:59

But when you think about it, that was a long walk. You know, it'd take months and months and months, and a lot of people died along the way, and there's disease, and there's rivers, and there's storms, and you've got to find food, and not easily done.

31:16

Anyway, you had politics involved, there's no question.

31:23

But the motivation was not some pure Christian society fighting off the horrible infidels.

31:35

In fact, the Crusades were offensive, not defensive. The situation in Spain -Portugal had stabilized by that point and would start reversing itself eventually.

31:55

And if it hadn't been for the Crusaders sacking Constantinople, who knows how much longer

32:00

Constantinople would have held out than it did, falling in 1453. But the city was weakened by the fact that even hundreds of years earlier it had been sacked by the

32:10

Crusaders for political reasons. But the point is that I presented the

32:17

Crusades in a theological context, because what you have is you have nominal

32:28

Christians. The vast majority of the Crusaders were not theologians. What they had been given by that point in time was a thoroughly, at best, semi -Pelagian, tradition -encrusted gospel of merit and works.

32:51

So, okay, so, you know, I'm not gonna challenge anything about his understanding of the

32:58

Crusades from, like, what they accomplished, and what they were about, and things like that. That's not the purpose of this, and I wouldn't really even be able to do that.

33:05

That's not my mission here. But what's so interesting about this is that, you know, he understands very deeply how it's so intertwined, right?

33:24

There's a theological aspect of it, there's a political aspect to it, there's a military aspect to it, economics, all that stuff.

33:32

He just got done saying that. And then he says, well, I approached it from a theological perspective, you know.

33:39

These guys were Romanists, you know, they had a theology of works, and a soteriology of works, and all this kind of stuff.

33:46

And that's all fine. If that's how you want to approach it, you know, of course, that's a huge part of it, that is.

33:56

But as you know, it's not the only part of it. And this is where,

34:02

I think, the main disconnect that we've been witnessing on Twitter comes into play, because when he's making his criticisms, he's doing it from a theological perspective, but the theological perspective, the people he's criticizing, already agree with him about.

34:17

Of course, we're not for—well, we'll get into it—but we're not for sending out crusaders and telling them, well, if you go over there and you get killed in battle, you've got eternal life, my friend.

34:30

We're not for that. We're reformed. We're not ostensibly reformed, we're not potentially reformed, we're actually reformed.

34:39

We understand how someone gets saved. So we're not arguing about that part of it, but that's the part that James White wants to impute to the red and blue meme crew that he talks about.

34:55

That's the part that he's focused on that, and he's imputing that to everybody else.

35:01

Oh, you're for the crusades? Oh, you think the pope is real? That is so immature,

35:08

Dr. White. That is immature. We're not in agreement with that side of it.

35:15

We're not. And that might be the part that you're interested in. And there's nothing wrong with that, because that is key and crucial and important.

35:26

But if you want to have that conversation, leave us out of it, because we already agree with you on that stuff.

35:33

And if you want to talk with us about that, fine. But understand that we agree with you on that already.

35:42

And the guys he names, and he throws shade at them, they agree with you on that.

35:48

You know how we know? Because I know them. I already know. I know they agree. It's very immature.

35:56

It's very immature. There's no other way to slice it. You can use as many nice words that you want to use.

36:04

You can be very proper when you say it, but it's immaturity. That is immaturity. I'm not saying you are immature, but in this instance, this is an immature way to go.

36:17

It just is. Were there exceptions here, there, and everywhere?

36:23

Okay, there were exceptions, but for the vast majority of people who painted a cross on their armor and headed to the

36:31

Middle East. Look how he just hand waves. This is the part that just doesn't compute with me.

36:41

Because he gets it, but he doesn't get it. He gets it, but he doesn't get it. Were there exceptions?

36:48

Some exceptions, but that's not the vast majority. Okay, I agree.

36:55

I agree, but if you acknowledge that there are exceptions, then you need to understand that the

37:03

Reformed brothers that you're talking about in this video are likely talking about a new situation, the things that they support.

37:15

Are those exceptions? Okay, are those exceptions? Because we're not for the

37:21

Pope sending us to battle or whatever. We're not for that. We don't believe in the Pope. We don't.

37:29

And so any kind of talk about a new crusade or, hey, we should learn from the crusades, we're talking about the stuff that potentially was good about the crusades as opposed to the

37:45

Roman Catholic side of it. Because we're not Roman Catholics. We're Protestants.

37:50

We're Protestants. We're protesting against Romanism. The promise of salvation, which was provided to them, was more than enough.

38:13

And as a Reformed Protestant, it was sort of a given that a gospel that tells you that you can have peace with God by dying in battle and killing the infidel is not the gospel of scripture.

38:39

This is the thing. Yeah, it is a given for someone who's Reformed. That's a given.

38:46

That's a given. And so now you need to do the hard work of thinking through, okay, so there's guys who agree with me that that's a given, but also don't look at the crusades the exact same way that I do.

39:03

What could be going on here? And I promise you there's another answer besides, well,

39:09

I guess they were just ostensibly Reformed. Yeah, I thought we all agreed.

39:15

I guess we don't. I promise you that there are other answers to that.

39:21

And I'm sure that there's some guys out there. I'm not one of them because this is not an issue I care about.

39:28

But that would talk to you about that. That would be glad to talk to you about that. In fact, I've seen offers to talk to you about that.

39:36

But instead you do stuff like this. I don't get that. I don't get it. Gospel of Jesus Christ. It is a demonstration of the level of corruption that had already been achieved within the

39:49

Roman Catholic communion. And so you're sending nominal nominal Catholics from Europe to the

39:58

Middle East to hack Muslims up and get hacked up by Muslims.

40:06

There is no apologetic gospel outreach to the

40:19

Muslim people. There is no, you know, you're not training these people to witness to the

40:25

Muslims. You're training them to kill the Muslims. But you're doing it with a cross on your shield.

40:35

This is... So I'm going to stop there because we've been at this for 40 minutes. But this is, you know, this is, it's very confusing to even know how to address this.

40:45

So like, right, the soldiers, the crusaders, the warriors, whatever you want to call them, they weren't going to these places to evangelize the

40:56

Muslims. That's true. But why would you expect them to?

41:02

If this was a, there was a military aspect to this, sure, there was a theological aspect to it as well, but there's definitely a military aspect to this as well.

41:11

Why would you, why would you send your warriors to evangelize the Muslims if you were, your goal was to defeat the

41:19

Muslims? And of course the situations are different, but, you know, there wasn't gospel witness to the

41:28

Nazis when you go to try to defeat the Nazis. And that's a whole other issue that we're probably going to get into because that's the new thing.

41:37

That's the new thing. That's the new mythology that's being challenged that is getting all people all worked up.

41:46

But, but yeah, I mean, you, why would you expect them to, right? I'm not a warrior, right? I'm not a warrior.

41:51

So when I bought your book, Dr. White, I was intending to have friendly conversations with my

41:57

Muslim friends. And so your book was very helpful in that, in that context, right?

42:03

But if I was a warrior and I was going to the Middle East to defeat, you know, who, whatever it was to go defeat

42:09

Muslims, your book wouldn't be the first one I would reach for. You know, I'd reach for another book, maybe a book about tactics or, you know, whatever it is.

42:18

I don't know. And so, so, so Dr. White, you might only care about the aspects to it, but the thing is you can't assume and assign to people that that's all they're talking about.

42:32

I guess they're not even reformed. No, no, we're having a different conversation over here. We're not really talking about, not that we don't care about Romanism and Catholicism and we don't understand it.

42:43

That's another thing he says, you know, all these guys, they just don't understand Catholicism. I've been debating it for years. They don't get it.

42:49

They don't hear me. No, no, we get it. But we're actually having a different conversation, right? Because we are in agreement with you about the fact that these, these crusaders were promised eternal life for going to battle.

43:01

Okay. That was not good. We agree with you on that. That's not a good thing. We don't want to emulate that, but still there's other aspects to it as you have acknowledged.

43:13

And we're talking about some of those other aspects. And the thing is, Dr. White, and I learned this from you too.

43:19

You've got to let your, you know, opponent, your debate opponent kind of, you got to let him have his conversation.

43:27

You have to let him make his points. You can't assign positions to him that he doesn't hold.

43:33

I learned that from you and it was a good lesson. And so we're going to stop there.

43:40

We're going to continue this. We're going to do the whole thing. And there's another video too. So this one was only whatever, 19 minutes or whatever he said.

43:47

And there's another one. And the other one gets even wilder. And he, you know, he gets pretty emotional about it.

43:53

That's for sure. And I don't, I want this to be helpful to as many people as possible.

43:59

Obviously the fanboys of Dr. White are going to hate it. And my fanboys are going to love it.

44:04

You know, I got fanboys too, you know. But there's also people who like us both and they're not fanboys.

44:10

There's a lot of people who watch both of us that aren't fanboys. And, and I want to be helpful to them because I think that personally,

44:19

I, I've seen a lot of people talk about the fracturing that's going on in reformed circles and how, and a lot of, you know, what was me type posts about it.

44:27

Honestly, I don't feel that way. I think I want to, I'm going to borrow a big Eva term. I'm going to lean into some of the fracturing because these are conversations that are going to be had one way or the other.

44:39

So you might as well have them in a way that is beneficial to people that is helpful to people.

44:44

And you know, you can, there's certain people you can't reach certain people you can, and this is for the people that I can reach. You know what

44:49

I mean? I love you Dr. James White. I love you. And I hope that you understand that when

44:54

I tell you, when I give you social media advice and things like that, I'm doing it from a place of humility.

45:00

I listen, never debated anybody. That's not true. I've debated people. You know, you've, you've, you've forgotten more things than I know.

45:11

It's as simple as that. And I don't think that I'm smarter than you or better than you or more wise than you or more mature than you or anything like that.

45:19

But I do know, I do know social media. I'm trying to help you. You know, social media too, by the way.

45:26

Yeah, I was talking to somebody the other day that you were like an, an early mover on the social media stuff and good on you because you really saw that song to the future there that was prophetic.

45:36

But anyway, I hope this is received and the way that I intend it to be respectful and, and, and, and humble.

45:46

And I'm not, I'm not one of these guys that's, that's like, Oh, I can't even watch

45:51

James White anymore. I'm not like that. Although I understand those guys and I don't hate them. I, you know, I don't think they should do that, but, but I get it.

45:58

I get it. I get it. Anyway. Hope you found this video helpful. God bless.