Why Dr. James White Hasnt Debated Dr Stephen Wolfe - Part 2A

Today's show is sponsored by Curios Consulting.

That is Curios with a Y.

K -Y -R -I -O -S.

Real estate investing can be intimidating.

That's why you don't do it alone.

Curios Consulting gets you from no real estate to your first rental property.

My friend Steve did it right here in New Hampshire, and he wants to help other Christians do the same.

Visit consultingbycurios .com.

Again, that's with a Y, consultingbycurios .com.

No more excuses.

The world needs more Christians with passive income, not more passive Christians.

Make it happen.

The link is in the description.

All right, everybody, we're back.

We're doing part two.

It's just that simple.

I'll tell you what, I'm not going to allow myself to get distracted by this, but

Dr. James White responded to my Twitter videos.

I posted like four two -minute Twitter videos.

He responded to, I don't know, maybe like 40 seconds a minute of one of them.

Man, I was watching the Mets play the White Sox the other day.

The White Sox are on a historically bad season.

They're going to unseat the Mets, who own the worst season on record, the first season that the Mets were a

team in 1962, and it hasn't been beaten since then.

The White Sox are on a tear.

They want the crown, and they're just losing like there's no tomorrow.

They're just losing as if that was the point of the game.

In the audience, a lot of people have resorted to putting paper bags on their face that have a

sad face on them and say sadness on them, and that's how

I felt.

I felt like putting the paper bag on my head that says sadness on the forehead when I was listening

to it, but it's okay.

It's all good.

Dr. James White can't stop me from loving him.

It's as simple as that.

He just can't stop me, no matter what.

He can say whatever he wants.

He doesn't affect my mood.

I could still love him right back, as simple as that, but I'm not going to get distracted by that.

That video has all of its own stuff in it.

I may reference it throughout this response, but we're just going to power through and continue

on with this one, and yeah, and then there you go.

So that's what we're going to do.

That is what we're going to do.

You know what?

Let's just do it.

The essence of sacralism.

Crying out loud.

I'm missing something.

Hold on.

Hold on.

Let's just double check here to make sure I'm not fast forwarded here.

Hold on.

Let's try it.

But you're doing it with a cross on your shield.

Yes.

Yes.

Okay.

Yeah.

This is the very essence of sacralism.

Crying out loud.

The essence.

I think that's why some of these Christian Nationalist guys that are big Stephen Wolf fans don't have

any problem with this, because he's full -blown sacralist.

A full -blown sacralist.

I mean, listen, I'm being straight up with you.

I really don't know what sacralism is, and I personally don't care.

But I'll tell you this, that I know it's a scare term.

It's definitely one of those terms that, I'm not saying it started this way, but it's become this thing that you

say when you want someone to be really scared of what's going to happen.

Not just a sacralist.

He is a full -blown sacralist.

And so that's supposed to scare you.

I don't think I'm a sacralist.

I tend to agree a lot more with Dr. White on some of these things.

I'm post -millennial, I'm theonomic, and all that kind of thing.

And so I don't think I'm a sacralist.

Although, I don't know, maybe James White puts me in that category.

I mean, he is playing a little fast and loose, in my opinion, with some of the

categories and the accusations.

In fact, in the video that I referenced where I had the sadness hat on, at one point he says

to me, he says something about, he's upset because some people, and he says, and that includes you,

AD.

And he says that we're saying, hey, you should be encouraging the young guys to become crusaders.

You should be encouraging the new guys.

And I'm sure there's some people out there that have said that.

I'm not so sure that that's what's really being said.

I mean, it's possible that I missed something.

I think that I have seen some people say Dr. White should be more encouraging to younger men.

I don't know if it was to be crusaders.

That's what James White said.

That's not what I've seen.

But I've done neither one.

Like, I've never told James White that he needs to be more encouraging to young men.

And he specifically called me out as if I had.

I've never, and if I have done that, if someone could point me to me doing that, I would like to take that back because I

don't agree with that.

I mean, if I said that, I don't know, maybe I was, maybe I had, you know, one too many Zins that day.

But I don't believe that.

So I don't think I've said that.

But there's a lot of, and that's one of the issues too.

There's a lot of playing fast and loose with the categories here.

You know, he'll make these comments and they're directed towards a guy like Joseph Spurgeon

or Eric Cahn.

But then when you dig down into it, it's really more about some of the anonymous people on Twitter,

but he applies it to Joseph Spurgeon.

He applies it to Eric Cahn.

He applies it to me, I guess now.

I mean, I guess I'm one of those full -blown sacralists.

And usually Dr. White, I think, is more careful than that.

But for whatever reason in this topic, he's, in my opinion, he's not being as careful as he usually

is.

So, you know, I'm not one of these guys.

And in another comment, he said something about, you know, the Arnold Schwarzenegger Crusader types, and he's talking about me.

But I'm not one of these guys.

I've never, I don't think I've ever shared, I know I've never created

a meme of any Crusader, much less the Arnold Schwarzenegger type.

It's just not something I've ever done.

And I'm not against it, if you like to do that kind of thing.

I mean, knock yourselves out.

But I don't do that kind of thing.

And I've never, you know, you know, LARPed, you know, being a Crusader.

I've never, never done that.

I've just not, I haven't done that.

But I also don't discard those people and say that they're doing really bad things.

In some people's minds, that's enough that I'm with them.

You know, I'm absolutely doing the same thing, where I'm not.

So some of the categories here are a little fuzzy.

But that's okay.

We're gonna power through.

That's the kind of Christian nationalism that he's promoting.

The sacralist kind.

The sacralism.

And again, and again, and this is the thing, like, I really enjoy Stephen Wolfe's

material, you know, his book.

I think, honestly, I think I like his podcast.

I don't know if he has a podcast, but he's done some videos and stuff.

I actually like that stuff a lot more.

I appreciate so much of what Stephen Wolfe has to say.

But I don't agree with everything.

And, you know, when he attacks certain positions that I have, I don't agree with, you know, some of

the criticism.

Sometimes I do, which is kind of interesting.

But I don't agree with everything.

But I recognize that we can still be friends, right?

We still have very similar goals.

Even if they're not exactly the same, they're similar goals.

And we can work together.

And I don't have to counter signal every single time I think he makes an error, or if he does something that I

wouldn't do, you know, I get in trouble with this all the time, you know, people will often throw certain tweets of Andrew

Torbat.

I mean, what do you think of this one?

And it's like, well, I mean, I wouldn't have said that.

But yeah, I mean, is that the end of the world?

I mean, it's definitely not.

I mean, I still consider him a friend.

I still consider him, you know, someone that we can work with.

He's still a brother in the Lord.

Like, I'm still and people really hate that.

They really hate that.

Well, if you do, you know, I have to just, you know, if I disagree with anything, it's time to get on it.

No, man, you got to be mature about some of these things.

Some of these disagreements, you can voice them in a way that it's obvious, you know, we're still friends, you know, we don't have to use

the scare tactics about underground Nazi, you know, like all that kind of stuff.

I'm not saying Dr. White does that, although maybe he has, I have no idea.

But you know, a lot of people do a lot, a lot of people do.

So let's continue.

Billy May, when that book first came out, and we did a sweater vest

dialogue, did two of them, to myself and Doug Wilson, what was,

what was my concern in the very first one?

Very first one.

And the second one?

Sacralism.

I know that's your concern, Dr. White.

And even though I do revere you and respect you, I don't agree.

I'm not concerned about that at all.

And I think you're wrong about your concerns.

And I think you're getting a little hysterical about your concerns regarding sacralism.

But I'm joking that I don't know at all what sacralism is.

I mean, the only reason I know about it is because of Dr. White.

I do kind of know what it is.

You know, at least in Dr. James White's opinion, I've honestly never heard anyone ever talk about

sacralism besides Dr. White and Michael O 'Fallon.

So my knowledge of sacralism, you know, I'll be honest, Dr. White, it's very limited.

It's just limited to what you've said, and what O 'Fallon has said.

I've never even heard the term before you.

So, so, you know, very limited knowledge, but I do know what it is.

And I'm not concerned like you are.

When I look at Stephen Wolf's book, and I hear what you say sacralism is, I have zero

concern, none whatsoever.

And yet I still respect you.

I still think you have interesting things to say.

I still think that you should be heard out regarding your concerns.

I don't have any problem listening to you talk about how concerned about sacralism you are.

And I don't take offense to it.

And I'm not, I'm not upset by it.

But, but, but again, I do wish we could recognize that despite the very mysterious boogeyman

of sacralism that, that might be at play here, we still can work together on many things.

I, I think that that would be a better way to go, but I'm not your social media coach.

I'm just a regular guy.

And so we'll continue, we'll continue on.

So I've been really consistent, nothing new here, but the

sacralism of that time period, which continues into the

Reformation, the original reformers were sacralists.

This was, I found this comment so interesting the first time I heard it, because it's, it's, you know,

again, my knowledge of sacralism is very limited, right?

It's very limited, whatever.

But, you know, according to, to James White's, you know, discussions of sacralism, it

is quite clear that everyone is a sacralist, you know, not that long ago,

you know what I mean?

Everybody.

And I think, you know, but let me, let me not get sidetracked.

And so, you know, we can still get value from Martin Luther, the, the sacralist, you know, he

throws the, the boogeyman word out about Martin Luther.

I think he does, at least in this, maybe that's a different situation, but we're about to listen to it.

But the early reformers were sacralists.

We can still, you know, revere them, you know, get value from their books.

We can still do all those kinds of things.

But when we've got a modern person who you're, again, labeling a sacralist, a full -blown sacralist,

all of a sudden, the concern just reaches a fever pitch, where you're given side eye to people who are like, oh,

yeah, I like Stephen Wolfe, but full -blown sacralist.

It's like, again, it's like, where, where does the grace come from?

But I think, too, one of the reasons I think this bothers Dr. James White as much as it does, this is just my

opinion, I have never talked to him about this, but is that when Stephen Wolfe says the

reformers are on his side, he's right, and he's serious, and he's right.

And so when it comes to certain issues, you know what I mean, he's very right about this.

But at the same time, Dr. James White wants to disagree because he disagrees with the reformers on this and stuff like

that.

But he recognizes that that puts him in an awkward position.

Because all of these people that for years we've been taught have, you know, been such a gift to the

church and stuff like that, it is so easy for Stephen to just pull up quote after quote after

quote after quote of them saying pretty much the same things that he's saying.

And it's very, it puts you in an awkward position because you've dedicated your life to the

Reformation and all of this kind of stuff.

And now you've got to knock down the very reformers that you taught us to

revere, to lionize, to celebrate.

You've got to now pick them apart.

And he's willing to do it.

I'm not saying he's not willing to do it, but it is awkward.

It is a very awkward position to be in because the reformers would agree with Stephen Wolf.

Now, maybe they were wrong and there's nothing wrong with that.

But it's awkward.

It's an awkward position for him to be in.

That's why Fritz Erbe died in that cell with Martin Luther knowing he

was there.

Because it was a sacral situation.

And we've been taught to try to downplay that part of Luther at least to reckon with it,

honestly, but to say, well, you know, they were just men of their times and stuff

like that, and just kind of hand wave it.

And Stephen's saying, well, yeah, maybe there were some mistakes, but actually we should revere that stuff too.

They had good things to say about that too.

That's one of the core disagreements.

And so what Stephen is doing to people that have the perspective of James White, it's very

dangerous and it puts them in a very awkward position.

That they're not comfortable being in.

Because usually when they're debating and arguing people, it's people that are against the

Reformation.

And so they're constantly defending the reformers.

Well, in this case, he's saying, well, no, they were right about Stephen saying they were right about that stuff too, or at

least some of it.

And now he's got to counter that, counter -signal the very reformers that he's spent his

career defending.

And that's an awkward position to be in.

And it's not an enviable position to be in.

Because I like the reformers very much.

And like I said, I'm theonomic, I'm post -millennial.

And so maybe even some of the things that I might disagree with Stephen on, like I would want to

defend, to argue with him about, but again, I've not dedicated my whole life to

defending the reformers.

Dr. White has.

He really has.

And he's been so helpful in all of that stuff.

He's been effective.

He's been helpful.

He's taught so much.

But this kind of situation, it really does put him in an awkward position.

It really does.

And I think, and there's, I don't know if I'll bring it up today, maybe I'll bring it up in the next video.

There's a challenge that goes out where Stephen wants to defend the Reformation, you know,

from the things that Dr. White disagrees with them, the sacralism and all that stuff.

He challenges Dr. James White to a debate.

And I got to be honest, James White's response to it, it looks very evasive.

It looks defensive.

It looks evasive.

It looks like he's trying to avoid debating Stephen on this.

And I get why.

I get why.

Because it'll be very easy for Stephen to find many quotations from all the reformers that Dr. White has

defended for years that say pretty much what Stephen says.

And that's going to be an awkward position for him.

I don't think Dr. White wants any part of that.

And not because he's scared, but because it's awkward.

It's very awkward to all of the other work that he does.

That's why I think Dr. James White wants no part of it.

Because his whole career has been the other way.

And now he would be forced to reckoning in an opposite way.

And I don't think he wants to do that.

I think he could do it if he wanted to.

I think he'd be capable.

I think it'd be very helpful to the body to see that, to be honest, and say, well, yes, Stephen is pretty much right on with

what the reformers believed.

But they were wrong.

And here's why they were wrong and stuff like that.

But you see, that that that gives ammunition to the anti -reformation people.

I don't think Dr. White wants to do that.

That's why I think it won't ever happen.

It won't ever happen.

I think that's why he was evasive in those challenges, because essentially what he said in his

response to Stephen Wolf was that Stephen is right.

Stephen is right that the reformers believed all of this sacral stuff.

And so there's really no debate to be had.

But he would have to, if he was going to debate, he would have to be going after essentially some of the beliefs of the reformers, which I

think he definitely is capable of doing.

I just don't think he wants to.

There was an inappropriate, unbiblical and always.

I got to pause for.

Well, it just took an hour long call, so I'm a little lost in this, but I'm just going to press play and see where we go.

It's damaging, intertwined.

Oh, give me one moment here.

I got to get reset up.

Well, I'm back and I forgot to click record and I just went for like 10 minutes talking about a variety of

different things.

So but I'm out of time for recording today, so I'm just going to I'm just going to leave it there.

I'm going to leave it there and I'll redo it.

Then the next the next time I get out here and fire up the video camera.

But it was good stuff.

I get just trust me on this one.

It was good stuff.

What I just said to nobody.

We will continue this when we get back.

I hope you found this video helpful.

God bless.