2021 Summer of Interviews: Pastor Steve Wetmore Interview

Welcome to No Compromise Radio, a ministry coming to you from Bethlehem Bible Church in West Boylston. No Compromise Radio is a program dedicated to the ongoing proclamation of Jesus Christ, based on the theme in Galatians 2, verse 5, where the Apostle Paul said, �But we did not yield in subjection to them for even an hour, so that the truth of the gospel would remain with you.

In short, if you like smooth, watered-down words to make you simply feel good, this show isn�t for you. By purpose, we are first biblical, but we can also be controversial. Stay tuned for the next 25 minutes as we�re called by the Divine Trumpet to summon the troops for the honor and glory of her King.

The Call to No Compromise and the Theme of Galatians 2:5

Here�s our host, Pastor Mike Abendroth. Welcome to No Compromise Radio, a ministry. My name is Mike Abendroth. In the old days, it used to be �No Compromise� because I didn�t want to compromise. I think that�s still a good thing to strive for.

But as time has gone on and theology has matured, we say we�re No Compromise Radio now for different reasons. Number one, because out of everybody that�s ever existed, only the Lord Jesus never compromised.

He said in the book of John, �I always do what�s pleasing to the Father. And secondly, I like to talk about the Lord�s work at Calvary, because on the cross, can you imagine, dear listener, not one of His attributes was compromised.

And as Sinclair Ferguson says, every one of His attributes simultaneously on display throughout His life, of course, but especially we see that on the cross. And so that�s why we�re called No Compromise Radio.

Mondays, it�s a sermon of mine. Tuesdays, I talk to Pastor Steve as we discuss issues here at the local church. My pastor friend, Steve Cooley. Wednesdays, I interview authors, theologians, other pastors.

Thursdays and Fridays, it�s kind of a book of Hebrews since I�ve been preaching that. Today, I have a special guest, and this man and I go back quite a ways. We had a lot of fun together. We had a lot of discussion about the Lord Jesus and His Word together, and it�s been many years since we�ve touched base, and for whatever reason, our paths crossed again.

And I said, �Steve Whatmore, you�ve got to get on No Compromise Radio. Pastor Steve Whatmore, Trinity Reformed Church, welcome to No Compromise Radio. Hey, Steve, tell our listeners how we met. I have my version.

You have yours. It�s a postmodern world. Tell me, according to your feelings, how do we meet? What happened?

Actually, doesn�t it, I was thinking as I was driving over, I think we met in, I mean, I may have known you in seminary, but I think we�re� I think so. I think you were my boss. It wasn�t a great high position or anything like that, but so we worked out our theology pretty well.

It�s amazing. You know, we would clean bathrooms and just talk about theological issues, right? Talk about the Bible, and it would just be hour after hour. And what I loved about that job, Steve, is that it didn�t require me to think about the job itself.

In other words, we could talk about theological issues and issues that were surrounding the Lord�s Word while we were working, don�t you think?

Oh, we hashed out everything. We worked out everything, all the problems in the world. But yeah, we had a great freedom. We were working with our hands, but we could just think through things. And we were studying, you know, remember, we were studying Hebrew and Greek and had.

A school of Christ, too. Well, what I loved is working behind the scenes, and we�d get to serve, let�s say, the Spanish ministry. And then after they were done with their Bible study and they�d give us all their tamales, you know, we didn�t need that reward, but we sure liked it anyway.

Can you remember, Steve, that we would try to make theological applications? So you�d have to clean the bathrooms, you know, the toilets, and it�s, you know, kind of a dirty job. But then we would think about Philippians chapter 3 and how Paul counted everything as scubalon, and I thought, well, you know what?

This is a good illustration of that, right?

It certainly was a humiliating job, you know, you�re low on the totem pole and he treats you differently.

Friendship, Seminary Work, and Philippians 3

Well, Steve, I have fond memories of those days, and I really, I appreciated your earnestness. You really wanted to learn and you wanted to know, and you wanted to be personally persuaded, right? You just didn�t want to have somebody tell you.

You wanted to find out for yourself and dig in, and so I really appreciated that about you. Tell our listeners now a little bit about the church you pastor. It's in Cape, is it Cape Coral, Florida?

Florida, Cape Coral, Florida. Beautiful, we're a sister community with Fort Myers, and a lot of people who in Fort Myers live in Cape Coral. And then there.

Well, Steve, I think this is going to be helpful for our listeners for several reasons. Probably most of the listeners that listen to No Compromise Radio, I mean, there's probably some PCA folks, maybe some OPC, but my guess is Baptist listen, and Baptist listen.

I'm just kidding. But, you know, out of OPC, PCA, SBC, others, you know, kind of master seminary people or whatever mainline evangelicalism, a lot of people don't know about the URC. Maybe they know a little bit through NOCO because of Chris Gordon, as I've promoted Chris Gordon, I have him on the show a few times.

Tell our listeners about the URC, specifically so I think if they're visiting someplace and they're like, well, we got to try to find a good church. I mean, these days, if you just look for Baptist when you're visiting, you're out of town.

That's not really a good gauge. Tell our listeners what the URC stands for and why it might be a good church for them to visit sometime, or in that particular case, join.

Question, because, you know, where do we fit in? We're really Presbyterian and Reformed, you know, with the OPC, the three forms of unity. That's kind of where we are teaching. We, URC is United Reformed Church.

We're very, you know, we've been around a lot and more than anywhere. And so, the church that I was in invited me to come to a class and so I got to meet many of our churches.

The United Reformed Church, Presbyterian Identity, and New England Directness

Steve, as I kind of reflected on your bio a little bit, and I know you personally, but I forgot you were from Vermont. And so, see, I'm up here in Massachusetts now. Maybe that's why I like you, because even though I'm not a New Englander by birth, kind of my attitude is New England-ish, and so I've got kind of that chip on my shoulder and that, you know, it's cold here, we have to hunker down, New England attitude.

That's why I like you, because you had that same thing back at seminary.

You know, we also had a straightforwardness, the Northeast had a straight, a lot of trouble. Well, you know what, Steve?

That fits you perfectly, too. When I think about ministry and other things, of course, we want to be kind and nice and there's a way to say things. But don't you think, in a world today with all this postmodern, what does it feel like to you?

What does it mean to you? Let's put our finger in the air to see which way the wind is blowing before we give an answer. I personally appreciate a man like you. If I ask you a question, you give me an answer.

I might disagree, but you give me the answer. Why don't men talk like that more often these days? Just with a directness, a directness, straight-aheadness, if you will. What do you think's happened?

Well, Steve, it reminds me of Galatians.

I was reading some Machen on Galatians, and he talks about, just from the get-go, paulus, apostolos, and then the next word translated into English is not, or no. And from the get-go, here's this book of no.

You're going to add to the gospel chapter one, no. Peter, you're going to say something out of line with the gospel, no. You're going to try to be sanctified by the works of the flesh only, no. I thought to myself, there's a lot of yes-men in this world, but there needs to be some men who say, no, I'm not going to do that.

I think one of the things both of us have learned throughout the years, which to me is freeing. I mean, there are difficult things of ministry, but so freeing to me is when I get up on a Sunday or speak anyplace, for that matter, and open up the Bible.

I have a lot of problems in my life, and I fall short in many ways, but I am resolved to honor the Lord when I speak. And if people at the funeral don't like it, then they don't like it, but I'm not going to change the message based on who's listening.

So, Steve, tell our listeners. That's the thing. Sometimes you've got to stand before people that they don't want to hear what you've got to say. I just did a funeral, ironically, not even a week ago, and I didn't even have a lot of time.

My outline was, that's the worst that can happen to you, from God, facing a just God, conquer death himself, and he'll conquer it for you. And I had to say, you know, I didn't, I'm not saying, you know….

Jared Good. It reminds me of John Bunyan in Pilgrim's Progress. He has the character Christian, that main character, and when it comes to Hebrews 9 .27, it's appointed for man once to die and then judgment.

Christian, I believe, said something like this through Bunyan. He said, when it comes to appointed for man once to die, I don't want to do that, and then judgment, and I'm unable to do that. So, I don't want to die, and I'm unable, in and of my own self, to stand before God, who requires perfection in actions, words, deeds, etc.

Steve, you'd like this story, maybe. This is almost like, you know, our listeners today are just overhearing a conversation of two friends, and this is how I think we talked even back in those days. I officiated a wedding a few days ago, and it was a couple from our church, a dear couple, and our church building isn't very nice.

So, they rented another building downtown, an old congregational church, very old, very pretty, that's now a Unitarian church. And so, I said to myself, the first words out of my mouth, I want to make sure I have down pat.

And so, this is what I said. I walked out, the bride came down, standing there with her father, and I said, today I'd like to welcome everyone on behalf of our triune God, God the Father, God the Son, and God the Spirit.

And I made sure to put the definite articles in there too, so nobody could accuse me of Sabellian heresy. Steve Wetmore today on No Compromise Radio. You can go to a website, trinityurc, is it .com or org?

No, I think it's .com. Yeah, .com, trinityurc .com. If you want to hear some of Pastor Steve's messages, I think you'd really be encouraged. Steve, in light of the other comment that I had or question about URC, tell our listeners, if they show up at the church building on Sunday for a worship service on the Lord's Day, what would that look like?

Does it look any different than maybe they think? Maybe they go to a Calvary Chapel or some Baptist church. Tell us about the liturgy.

I think one of our radical today, saved by everything that the divine mind can think of, we have been blessed with every spiritual blessing. So it should be joyful too. It's very much on liturgy. That is the thing about, we'll sing a psalm, and we'll have the gospel will be proclaimed.

How long do you preach for these days? 45 minutes. Which to me, that seems long for URC. An hour. Right? I think that's a long sermon for a typical URC, but maybe you've got kind of the... I think that's probably long for URC.

Yeah. And if people say that, you know, let's say somebody comes into the church service, and will they say, well, are you preaching through the book of the Bible? Or is it something else? Is there some other kind of format?

Is it a sequential exposition?

To preach expositionally, but we all... I began to think it's a very good practice when I came here, but although there's a debate on how to describe it, and I don't know if I want to get into that, but we basically will preach thematically throughout a year through the confession.

One of our services will often be through a book of the Bible, whereas the second service, and we have two, searching thematically through confession. So we might read the Heidelberg, and say that it's on the deity of Christ.

We might explain the confessional a bit, and then we would go thematically into the scripture of the deity of Christ. And that way, like, the confession is divided into 52 lords a day. So it's a really good practice, whether you do it through the confession or not.

Every church, very common practice.

Liturgy, Psalm Singing, and Expository and Confessional Preaching

Okay, Steve, we've got a few minutes left. Let's make this kind of fast. I'm going to tell you a name or a topic, and then you just give me like a 30-second response. How's that sound? Oh, I'll try. All right, but short, short, short now.

Law gospel.

Law gospel. Yeah. Crucial, crucial to understand the Bible. We need the law to reveal our sin, and we need the gospel of Jesus Christ to save us. Okay. And if we don't understand those two things…. The Gospel Coalition.

You know, I…. You're a URC, you don't even know who they are.

That is so funny. I will tell you that I am a little separated, and I'm a little bit busy down here being on my own.

See? Yeah, that's right. Okay, no problem. What's the latest book you read? You may need to erase that part. No, no, that's fun! No, that's just typical URC. You're in a lot of trouble with the URZ. No, tell me, what's the last book you read?

Or you're.

Currently reading? You mean a book? Yeah, a theological book, yeah. You know what, Mike? Honestly, I'm always in a theology, a theological book. All right. I just ordered the four-volume.

Confessions by maybe Dennison or something. Do you have that? No, I don't. Reformation Heritage?

All right. I didn't just read, like, we have a lot. I probably teach. No, that's good. I like it. Yeah, that's good. I mean, I'm always reading. Excellent, yeah. So tell me, somebody walks in.

Your church, we've got about a minute left, somebody walks in your church, and you know they're kind of dispensational, Baptist. What goes through your mind? How do you kind of coach them.

Through, like, you know, the shock factor? A lot of good responses. I mean, we are made up a lot, an awful lot. We've had a lot of good responses. To find out a little later, they go, oh, well, what do you believe about this?

I really relish the opportunity, because I've been through that, and I just hope they give me a chance to explain it. And I try, here's what I do, the idea that, and then the confession, and most people who are serious, and all my Baptist brethren, I have most of my Baptist brethren, and I try to prove it to them.

I definitely try to go after them. I always, you know what I always say to them? I always say to my Baptist brethren.

That's good. Well, time has fleeted. I'm not changing. I know. Well, now you think I'm going to land the plane and turn you off, because I don't want to answer it myself, but the show must go on.

No, no, I wouldn't expect that. Maybe another time. Maybe another time we'll talk about that.

That's right. Well, you know what? A good, friendly discussion over that. Steve Wetmore, I'm so thankful you came on the radio today. TrinityURC .com, if you want to pull up some messages. If you're in the Fort Myers area on the Lord's Day, and you want to go worship with Steve, I'm sure he'd be encouraged.

Make sure you say, I heard you on No Compromise Radio. Steve, it'll probably just be a matter of time now before you're the big-shot celebrity URC guy. So, see?

Well, after being on your show, yeah. Hey, Mike, it's been a real great pleasure, and I appreciate it. Thanks. Thanks for being on today.

Law and Gospel, The Gospel Coalition, and Baptist Guests at a URC Church

No Compromise Radio with Pastor Mike Abendroth is a production of Bethlehem Bible Church in West Boylston. Bethlehem Bible Church is a Bible teaching church firmly committed to unleashing the life-transforming power of God's Word through verse-by-verse exposition of the sacred text.

Please come and join us. Our service times are Sunday morning at 1015 and in the evening at 6. We're right on Route 110 in West Boylston. You can check us out online at bbchurch .org or by phone at 508 -835 -3400.