2022 Luke Abendroth Interview (Part 1)

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Welcome to No Compromise Radio, a ministry coming to you from Bethlehem Bible Church in West Boylston.

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No Compromise Radio is a program dedicated to the ongoing proclamation of Jesus Christ, based on the theme in Galatians 2, verse 5, where the

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Apostle Paul said, �But we did not yield in subjection to them for even an hour, so that the truth of the gospel would remain with you.�

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In short, if you like smooth, watered -down words to make you simply feel good, this show isn�t for you.

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By purpose, we are first biblical, but we can also be controversial. Stay tuned for the next 25 minutes as we�re called by the

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Divine Trumpet to summon the troops for the honor and glory of her King. Here�s our host, Pastor Mike Abendroth.

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Welcome to No Compromise Radio, a ministry. My name is Mike Abendroth. And for the, how many times,

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Luke? The umpteenth time. Fifty -fifth time. How do they do the umpteen? What�s the umpteen? Umpire. Seriously?

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We need an umpire between us. Oh, okay. Job 9. Nice. Well, in the studio today with me is my son,

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Luke Abendroth, 25 years old, is that true? Quarter of a century. Okay. Why wouldn�t you be smarter if you�re already 25 years old?

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Well, you know, I unfortunately didn�t inherit the genes from my mom, it was mostly on the male side.

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Seminal headship, is that what that�s called? We don�t believe in that, do we? I know. Well, in that one category we do, with genes.

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Okay, okay. Good. Anyway, it�s good to have you back in town, Luke, for the Christmas holidays and everything else.

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And seriously, this is what, maybe the fourth or fifth time we�ve had you in the studio? We do a couple shows at a time.

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At least ten, yeah. Maybe four separate instances, but ten shows or something. Now this is a, it�s going to sound serious, but it�s not really that serious.

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If I would have died in the hospital from the COVID pneumonia, not just COVID pneumonia, but the COVID pneumonia, would you have carried on the no -compromise tradition?

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What would you have done with the show? I mean, all the rights and privileges and everything, all the money was going to be yours. Would you have carried on?

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I don�t know. I think the wisest thing that I, the wisest attribute that I have is that I know

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I�m not that smart. So maybe I should wait a couple years, you know, like ten years of ministry, then you restart. No co -coming back after a ten -year hiatus.

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Yeah, yeah. Well, seriously, sometimes I�ll talk to pastors and, I mean, I�m saying it about myself too.

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Everybody wants a podcast, but a 35 -year -old man in ministry or a 40 -year -old man, they got kids in the house and it�s a new church.

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I always say there�s plenty of time for podcasts. Yeah. I mean, if I did it, it would mostly just be marriage advice that I�d be giving out to people.

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Oh, that would be good. You know what I think you should do? Child rearing. Write a parenting book. Yeah, that�s my plan. I�m working on it now.

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Got the first draft done. I wanted to give it to you and correct all the mistakes that you made. So since last time, you have not moved, but you�re thinking about going to seminary.

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Tell us about that. Yeah, I actually, I have. I think last time I was here, I hadn�t moved yet. I moved to San Diego about eight months ago.

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Oh, it was. Okay. So yeah, I took a new job down there and I�m thinking about enrolling in seminary, hopefully in the next year or two at Westminster, California, Westminster Seminary in Escondido.

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So yeah. But I know that thing when you and Scott, Scott Clark got in that big fight and stuff. Oh, yeah.

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Fisticuff alteration. Oh, right. Yeah, I would lose that. Is he still letting you come back? I think so. I don�t remember that, but I think

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I must have lost. Okay. Are you truly Reformed? No. Not TR. Does it even bother you?

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Not really. All right. All right. Let�s talk seriously with Shop. Tell me,

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Luke, a little bit about where do you fit in the spectrum if you�ve got dispensationalism on one side, a truly

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Reformed kind of Pado -Baptist covenant theology on the other side? We�re not talking about baptism now.

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There's a 1689 federalism with some nuances in the New Covenant. Where do you line up and why?

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Nice. That�s a good question. That�s what you always say in a podcast, right? You say that�s a good question if you need time to think.

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I know. So you say that�s a good question and you�re thinking. And then you repeat the question. And then you repeat the question. Oh, that�s a great question. What was the question again? I think

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I just believe what you believe. So what do you believe? Sometimes Gracie will text me when she�s at a chapel or something and she asks a question, �Dad, do you like or do we like a particular person ?�

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Yeah, do we believe this? Uh -huh. And then I just have to tell her what we believe. Yeah, here's what we believe Gracie. I think you know the last couple years especially with all of your friends at Westminster Escondido and Just sort of reading those guys and listening to their podcasts.

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It's hard for me to Get on board with everything of the six in the 1689 federalism scheme, but I will admit

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I haven't studied it much But I do think you know when you get to to things like Abraham being

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In a sense an administration of the Covenant of Works That seems to to run into I see

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I run into issues with that with Galatians when you have the sharp contrast between Moses and Abraham And things like that, so I I don't really know the answer that question

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But I think I would lean more towards a traditional Presbyterian scheme of covenant theology without Infant baptism,

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I don't know if you're allowed to do that I'm sure there are people who would say you're not allowed to do that, but it just seems it seems like there is a covenant of grace

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Before the new covenant, but it's our show so we do what we want right? I guess it's your show So you know it's ours now because I've I've passed the mantle.

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Oh, okay. Well, yeah, no code jr. At the helm here Okay, I don't know see that's that's why that's why

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I don't have the show cuz I don't even have a clear answer to that The answer is I don't know, but that's where I lean towards right

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I think One of my problems is I have not read Barcellus as much as I should and the

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Renehans and and others Ron Baines who has He's not written as much as the other guys, but anyway,

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I don't know if I'm just that smart part of it Is you know, I'm not calling covenant theologians dumb

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I'm just saying the Renehans and rich were pretty smart, but so is Clark too. Yeah, they're all pretty smart.

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Okay, I Didn't have any idea what we're gonna talk about Luke. I just wanted to get you back on the show again

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I read David Calhoun's book a sheep remembers. It was a book about Psalm 23 and it's got commentary

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Then some quotes and then a little bit of his own testimony because he had cancer for so long

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It was really tough for him. He's since with the Lord, but I just want to say something about this and I know you can kind of Come back toward at me.

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I'm listening to the snowplow outside. It snowed how many inches last night seven? Do you think seven inches something like that way remember

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Vance Havner if I ask you Vance Havner was would you would you know? It's seven -inch man Southern Baptist kind of Arminian Revivalistic guy he was sharp on his feet in terms of his wit

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Havner quoted Matthew 11 6 blessed is the one who is not offended by me and And Paraphrased it blessed is the one who does not get upset by the way

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I God run things This he said is the forgotten beatitude. Don't you like that?

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I love that. I love I Love it because this is the way God runs things Blessed is he are the one who does not get upset by the way

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I run things. That's good I know I'd probably underline that if I had a book. I think you did. What's your what's your theology?

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What's your theology of underlining? I I underline everything that I consider unimportant and then the parts that are not underlined is what

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I really like Okay, just helps me focus. I think some of the Qumran texts do the same thing

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Yeah, that's where I got that when I visited the Qumran caves Now you spent a summer or a semester rather in Israel you went to Qumran I did anything come to mind if I say

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Qumran, what did they think believe? The Qumran nights, I don't know.

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I don't really remember mine Dead Sea Scrolls That's all I know Masoretic and they come up with that the little dots or something.

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I don't know Okay, tell me what you're reading these days at home. You know what

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I'm reading Yeah, I know you're reading a lot of secular stuff and you know QAnon and stuff But I mean the biblical

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QAnon come on man, January 6 moment of silence Yeah, anyways

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I'm reading the gospel mystery of sanctification by Walter Marshall I've been kind of reading through it for a while now, but it really trying to finish it up So I'm about a third of the way through and hopefully finish it in the next couple days.

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All right, let me stop you there Sanctification the work of the Spirit of God by grace lots of times.

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We think it's holy living or Obedience or faithfulness, which really it's the

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Spirit of God working in our lives is sanctifying us and the fruit of that is Holy living in obedience

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Why do you think the Evangelical Church is so messed up on one of the key doctrines for a

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Christian? That is sanctification. I don't think we know how to define it is it because of biblicism is because of We just want holy living in the church.

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I mean, I think everybody wants holy living doesn't Marshall want holy living Yeah, I think that's why he wrote the book But the answer the question is why are why we so messed up?

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Yeah, I don't know It's probably something to do with Satan. What could it be Satan? Could it be?

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So anything highlighted in the book that you That comes to mind. I mean he repeats a lot of the things over and over and over Yeah, I think it's just helpful to read somebody, you know

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I think Walter Marshall died in 1680 if I'm incorrect me if I'm wrong I don't think he really wrote anything else, but he was a contemporary of of all those those

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Puritan guys and just reading him and seeing the things that he targets and calls out as as Something that is unbiblical or neo -nomi is really interesting some of the things that we think today are our new new crises in the reformed world quote -unquote

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He has already addressed so things like he says that people who are

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Afraid that the gospel is gonna lead to the license that free grace the offer of Christ Made to each and every man the scandalous offer as some as some say

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He thinks that's gonna lead to abuse to license or some people think that and he addresses that by saying

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Or basically the way that they address that those those people who are afraid the neo -nomians Is they instead of using language like rest trust receive they talk about?

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making some kind of commitment to obedience to Christ commitment to Following Christ and we can't just have this idea of faith of resting alone in the finished work of Christ instead we have to have some kind of surrender some kind of of Swearing allegiance to Christ.

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I don't remember what pages it's on in the book But I'm sure you could post it in the show notes or something chapter 4 chapter 4.

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Yeah, but anyways There's this idea that that the neo -nomians came up with that that's gonna preserve people from from abusing grace if we just say trust rest receive people are gonna abuse that and it's just so interesting because you hear that language today in certain circles and You think oh, that's that's just how we define faith surrendering to Christ as Lord And although we we do surrender to Christ as Lord.

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We do submit to him as Lord. We do follow him We do take up our cross daily deny ourselves and follow him.

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That is not in the category of faith It's in the category of sanctification. So I just think things like that are interesting where you see these issues really aren't so new

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It's fine for Christians to want to be more committed Right to have a greater allegiance to be more surrendered necessity, right?

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That's that's good language for the Christian But we do believe in sola fide and we have said this on the show numerous times

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There are no antecedent conditions to faith. In other words, you don't have to do something in order to believe

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You don't surrender first or commit or yield or whichever use the word like desire for God Okay, let me just I can read the quote here we go.

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All right, this is now now this is when the show gets interesting here's the Walter Marshall quote read that this is regarding the neo -nomians and That they may the better secure the practice of holiness by their conditional faith

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They will not have trusting in God or Christ for salvation to be accounted the principle saving act of it

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Because as it seems to them many loose wicked people trust on God and Christ for their salvation as much as others and Are by their confidence

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Hardened the more in their wickedness, but they had rather it should be obedience So this is how they're gonna redefine faith, but they had rather it should be obedience to all

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Christ's laws at least in resolution Or a consent that Christ should be their

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Lord Accepting of his terms of salvation and a resignation of themselves to his government in all things

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So they want to say it's not just faith It's not just trust because that's gonna lead to wicked living

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It has to be a resignation to the government of Christ And of course we resign ourselves with the government of Christ But is that how the

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Bible describes saving faith and Walter Marshall says no, this is the neo -nomians. I Think need isn't the neo -nomian the show out matrix resurrections or something.

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Isn't that's a neo -nomian. Isn't he the main guy? Yeah, no, man. Yeah. Yeah, that's what he's winning. That's why you know, it's a satanic show

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Red pills always lose the neo -nomians have what kind of blue pill Red pills the gospel of free grace well just to Come back at you with all that What shall we do keep on sinning so God can keep on forgiving?

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I should hope not if we left the country where sin is sovereign. How can we still live in our own house?

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Oh, what is that? That's this? That's the what is that the message? Yeah, I just gave that away It's a white elephant gift to somebody.

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Oh, that's a pretty good one, huh? I had from Ray a Jack Van Empy prophecy

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Bible that was genuine leather Super nice It was a gift edition and I used that for a white elephant gift when the elders were over and Cooley got it

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Tuesday Tuesday guy was happy. Oh, he does his devotions in that still he does and he actually he wanted me

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Kind of like the Witch of Endor calling up Samuel He wanted to call have me call up Jack and Van Empy and I would sign it like You know in lieu of Jack Van Empy.

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I have an autograph copy. That's cool. Now. We need Kathy Kuhlman next Why why oh, here's another question since you're gonna go to Westminster Seminary Why is

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Robert Godfrey obsessed with Catherine Kuhlman? Would you ask him that if you see him walking on campus? He thought it was sister

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Amy. Oh, I Stand corrected sister Amy's America That's right.

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That's the world we live in Come on, baby until you disappear. She was the one that disappeared, right?

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She went off the piano player Down to Mexico faith your own death and then she came back to ministry

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That's that's that's what you do that sounds like what's going on these days with Christianity where there's that website if you want speakers and you can pay for a

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Speaker to come and it's got David Platt ten to twenty thousand dollars Radical that's a radical price.

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Hmm. I know a chivagin Julian. I think it's ten to twenty as well. Mm -hmm Christine Kane ten to twenty

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Tim Keller ten to twenty thousand. Have you ever seen that that uh, what's that? Lutheran satire video where it's the it's the evangelical guy and he's talking to the

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Roman Catholic and he says you don't need to do This whole thing where you move them secretly to another parish after you after you commit these sins

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Just take a six -month hiatus come back and tell anybody that tries to criticize you

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They just don't really understand the gospel and grace and you've been forgiven. So just come right back into ministry. See see that's a great plan

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I gave and Roth with Luke even Roth here on no compromise radio ministry. We're gonna do a little fun thing

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I have a treasury of quotations Evangelical press put together by John Blanchard.

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Mm -hmm. You remember John Blanchard? Yeah when he came over to the house that one time That was

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Daniel block With the ultimate questions book he gave it out.

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Yeah, that's right I wonder if we reread ultimate questions if we still would like it. I don't know. Is this the royal we uh -huh, right?

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What do we believe dad? Yeah I don't think I text you that I'm just gonna open this up and just give you a quote

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Okay, you just tell me something about the okay. Okay Spurgeon. Well, I think our friend calls us no content radio.

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I Call this this is called late -night pool radio Too late last night playing pool

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Okay Free will I have often heard of But I have never seen it

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I have met with will and plenty of it But it has neither led captive by sin or held in blessed bounds of grace.

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Isn't that funny? That's good I've heard of it, but I've never seen it. Hmm. It's a nice principle the island of goodness around your will why is that you know that goes back to the whole inner light with the

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Quakers and and The friends they call it and you don't really need much of the Bible because the inner light will guide you what's wrong with that?

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Well, it didn't really work How many Quakers, you know, I know well, you know, there's Quaker Oats Oh, there are fewer shakers than there are

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Quakers because shakers said no sex. Yeah acres said, okay, and they didn't have too many conversions shakers,

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I Know what's up with that? Well, I think what that's why they made good furniture. Yeah, you know nothing else to do.

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Nobody's converting No evangelism. Yeah Remember the question anymore free.

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No, I know. Okay, so really I know where I know right? Where we are. I'm a pro at this. What other books are you reading?

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Oh, okay. Cool. I'm you know what? I'm taking my time through the Institutes. So I'm I think

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I'm almost done with book one I should finish in the next couple week or two. Okay, what version of the

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Institute's Calvin's Institute? Uh, it's the Lewis battles loose battles. That's the good one, right?

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Not the beverage one I think the beverage one is fine, but I don't like to be reminded of drinks when I'm when I'm reading.

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Okay, that's good I think when he wrote the first The first time he sat down and wrote the edition of the

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Institutes he was 25, is that about right man? I mean, so just yeah, just tell me about that, right? That's that's really interesting

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Another episode. Yeah, it's a lot shorter back then. Well, yeah, that's right. So not that makes sense.

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Okay, so institutes That's good. One of the things Luke that we talk about regularly is The response to Calvin's, you know criticizing

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Calvin when they haven't even read the Institutes we We had to read the section on prayer warm rich devotional

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I mean, I've since read the whole thing, but I don't know what people are thinking justification section. It's great

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Well, and the whole thing is great I mean the thing with Calvin is it really once you start reading it? It's like this is totally written for new believers super easy to read and people are like, oh

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Calvin, you know He's so boring or something But then you start reading him and he does like a little systematic theology section and then he just goes off blasting somebody

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You know and in the sophists are gonna be damn for this and then he goes back to Defining some kind of theological terms.

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I think you know, I you know, I had a theory the other day I think all these books about you know, here's what

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Calvin thought and Luther and Owen It's like you got to keep the book industry going so we can't really point people to the original authors

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We got to just write books about what we think about what they thought because if people just read them

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We won't make money anymore. So to get a doctorate without some Dissertation, I don't know. It's like these people

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I mean, I know Owen's hard to read and stuff, but you can read these people and it's really I'm not the smartest guy in The room, but it's not that complicated

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Years ago when someone told me pick a theologian and read his stuff I was dabbling with trying to read

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Edwards and I'm glad I never fulfilled my Glad that would have been bad. I don't know what

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I don't know what to say about that I just know that I had some I got to sit and listen to Fesco and dr.

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Clark talked about that and I just walked away with maybe Edwards isn't so great after all A lot of it was over my head, but that's the one part that I got.

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Okay Edwards not so great Some kind of thing about him being

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You know not understanding classical theism and some kind of weird Animism thing and then his and then the other thing about Edwards is people have all these arguments

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They write all these different books about what he believed about justification by faith alone It's like, you know, if you have one goal in ministry

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Maybe it should be that people aren't confused about what you think about justification sola fide I don't think people are gonna be confused when you die about what you think about justification sola fide

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Luke, right? It is so true I'm thinking about Doug Wilson and why we don't support

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Doug Wilson or would want anybody to read reasons, right? But at the top of the list is if you don't get justification

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By faith alone sola fide, right? I don't really care what you have to say Short of you know, you're my neighbor and you were you were in Vietnam and I we can talk shop about that And you can just teach me but theologically if you can't get that, right then

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I don't it's the same thing with Baxter same thing with Daniel Fuller and all that stuff.

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Well, at least Baxter and Fuller didn't write sex novels So, you know that doesn't really I always thought you know Why would you if you believe in final justification by there's some kind of final justification by why would you kind of work?

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Good dirty writing dirty novels with quotes that are so inappropriate You would never even read them over the air and then everybody

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He's freaking out about how great Doug Wilson is because he's supporting fake vaccine cards and anti mask

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It's like you just get your politics from politicians. They're a lot more interesting and stay away from Creepy sola fide deniers.

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I see I feel like we're just talking but I forget this is gonna be on the on the air What about Joe Rogan should we have him on I think

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I like Joe Rogan more I'd rather listen to Joe Rogan Okay, so institutes

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Walter Marshall both of those we'd highly recommend here on the radio show Walter Marshall's book on sanctification

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John Murray said was the most important book ever written on sanctification. I just disagree a little bit

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I think Galatians would yeah, but no Romans Romans and so then you have institutes good So that's old -school going back to some of the original things.

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What else anything? I mean, I kind of always got too many things going on at once. I'm I'm listening to 1984 it's just kind of fun to listen to pretty interesting and then

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I'm reading a book. I'm reading some different novels I'm reading a once an eagle.

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It's called. It's pretty interesting when you get you start seeing big Eva stuff it's got a lot of parallels between Military stuff people sucking up to each other and playing the politics game and unfortunately you see that in a bunch of churches

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So that's pretty good. And then I'm also reading. Oh, I I know I can take your mask off. It's okay being in here

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I don't you know, even though even though even though I think this is a safe place and everybody's been quadruple boosted

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I just feel like if our neighbors drive by and look through the window there in the snowstorm and they see

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I don't have a You know, I might not be able to win them over to the gospel, you know, what a mask winning people over with winsomeness

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Right, that's I mean that is the most important thing as long as people see that we're tolerant No matter what what it is

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Even if the government says, you know, you need to wear a sombrero because no don't scare son It doesn't dance cap if you get up to preach just to show that you love your neighbor

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So we need to do that We always let the world define what loving your neighbor means are you interrupting me on my show?

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I don't think so Everything I learned you So I just blaming you for even bad things even bad things.

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Yeah, that's true. Like my pool shot last night but anyways I think the and then I've just recommended to you and you got for mom the

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Ralph Erskine book Oh gospel song. It's awesome Yeah, so good. I wish we had a song in here.

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I think it's some kind of it's some type of poem No, no, William Shakespeare some good sonnets. That's what I know. Uh -huh.

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I think somebody should name their daughter sonnet Second what if she could what if she couldn't sing and she was like an athlete and she wasn't really artsy.

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That's perfect That's what you want No, that's really good just gospel centered, you know, it's like a it's all poetry but it's systematic theology in poetry form

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But it's all these Antinomianism neo -nominism free offer of the gospel sanctification by faith why we always go back to works

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I had all these different things how to be sanctified. It's like every page I think actually it was

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John Patton's Something about either one of either his favorite or one of his favorite books that he brought with him to the

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New Hebrides You know because he's a Scottish guy and he's got the Bible obviously and then he's got Ralph Erskine's gospel sonnets

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Do you ever abbreviate Covenant of Works as cow ever say cow? Yeah Every day.

24:59

Hey Luke. Thanks for being on the show My name is Mike Avendroth with Luke Avendroth here If you ever want to get a hold of Luke, you can write me

25:04

Mike at no compromise radio .com I almost couldn't pronounce my own radio shows name. Well That's how it goes

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No compromise radio with pastor Mike Avendroth is a production of Bethlehem Bible Church in West Boylston Bethlehem Bible Church is a

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Bible teaching church firmly committed to unleashing the life Transforming power of God's Word through verse -by -verse exposition of the sacred text