March 11, 2022 Show with Mykola Leliovskyi on “An Assessment of the Russian Invasion of Ukraine from a Christian Eyewitness & Ukranian Citizen” (Part 2)

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Live from the historic parsonage of the 19th century gospel minister George Norcross in downtown

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Carlisle, Pennsylvania, it's Iron Sharpens Iron. This is a radio platform in which pastors,

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Christian scholars, and theologians address the burning issues facing the Church and the world today.

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Proverbs 27, verse 17 tells us, Iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another.

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Matthew Henry said that in this passage, we are cautioned to take heed with whom we converse and directed to have a view in conversation to make one another wiser and better.

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It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next two hours, and we hope to hear from you, the listener, with your own questions.

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And now, here's your host, Chris Arnzen. Good afternoon,

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Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida, and the rest of humanity living on the planet

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Earth who are listening via live streaming at ironsharpensironradio .com. This is

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Chris Arnzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Friday on this 11th day of March 2022.

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And I am so delighted and thrilled and grateful to our

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Lord, God, Savior, and King that my guest today, even after hearing very disturbing television news reports, my guest today is still alive and well and unscathed in Ukraine.

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His name is Mykola Leliovsky, and he is Professor of Biblical Theology and Hermeneutics at Grace Bible Seminary in Kiev, Ukraine, and member of the leadership team at Grace Bible Church in Kiev as well.

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And today we are addressing part two of an interview that we had about two

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Mondays ago, an assessment of the Russian invasion of Ukraine from a

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Christian eyewitness and Ukrainian citizen. And it's my honor and privilege to welcome you back to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, Mykola Leliovsky.

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Thank you so much. It's a privilege to be back on with you again. And once again, we are so happy that you are alive and well and safe and unharmed.

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Well, I don't know how safe you are, but you are unharmed so far. Yes, praise the

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Lord. And there was a couple of days James White was extremely worried because he hadn't heard back from you in a two -day period after trying to contact you, but we are so delighted that the

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Lord has answered prayer regarding your well -being. And we have a special co -host today, Pastor Rich Jensen, a longtime friend of mine who is not only a longtime friend, but the church where he pastors, along with Pastor Christopher McDowell and also

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Anthony Eugenio, Hope Reform Baptist Church of Coram, Long Island, New York. He is our co -host today, particularly because he has visited and spent time in Ukraine on several occasions, which was involved in the adoption of two of his children from Ukraine.

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I believe the first was 2001 and 2007, and he can correct me if I am incorrect on that.

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But it's such a joy to have you back on the program, Pastor Rich Jensen. It's always a pleasure,

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Chris. Good to be here today. And was I right about the dates of your two adoptions? Yes, 2001 -2007.

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Great. Well, first of all, let us have my cola once again for our listeners who missed

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Part 1 of this discussion two weeks ago. Tell our listeners about Grace Bible Seminary in Kiev and also

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Grace Bible Church in Kiev. Sure. So Grace Bible Seminary and Church is associated with Grace Community Church in Los Angeles, which is pastored by John MacArthur.

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They sent missionaries to Ukraine back in the early 90s to start a training center, and they got involved with starting local churches.

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And so Grace Bible Church was started in the early 2000s as an offshoot of another church that was started earlier.

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And so I've been a member of Grace Bible Church basically since its inception, since 2002, when

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I was 15 years old and was saved by God's grace in an evangelistic softball camp where I heard the gospel for the first time and was convicted of my sin.

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And so Grace Bible Seminary is a training center associated with the

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Master's Academy International and the Master's Seminary where we train men to exposit

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God's Word, and I've been working with that ministry for some years now as well. And so it's a joy and privilege to serve the

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Lord in those ways, and especially now as these unprecedented circumstances have really taken many people by surprise, but we're trying to do our best to not lose heart, look on the things above, and serve those who the

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Lord placed in our care. Amen. And if anybody wants more information about Grace Bible Seminary and Grace Bible Church in Kyiv, the seminary website is gbs .org

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.ua. gbs .org .ua.

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And the website for Grace Bible Church is gracebiblechurch .org .ua.

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gracebiblechurch .org .ua. And now, Pastor Rich Jensen, let our listeners know something about Hope Reform Baptist Church of Coram, Long Island, New York.

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Well, we've been in existence, we're celebrating 26 years this year. We've just recently, in the last couple of years, moved into a permanent facility that God has graciously provided for us.

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Beautiful facility. Yeah, and we are a 1689

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London Baptist Confession Church and hold to the traditional

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Reform Baptist views, and we're growing. The Lord is multiplying and adding to our number daily, and we're very grateful for the work that He has planted here.

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It's such a blessing. Praise God. Well, Mykola, I've been hearing all kinds of reports about the devastation that has occurred through airstrikes by the

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Russians, particularly in your hometown of Irpin. And I was so relieved, as I said at the outset of the program, that you were well, because I don't know if these reports have been exaggerated by the refugees who are fleeing

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Irpin, but there were reports by refugees, eyewitnesses, that the city of Irpin has been obliterated, and some have even said there is no more

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Irpin. I'm assuming that must be hyperbole, but if you could let us know about how on earth, other than the obvious, the grace and mercy and kindness and good providence of our

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Sovereign Lord, how have you remained unscathed in the midst of all this?

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Well, actually, I'm located just, I guess it would be southeast of Irpin, so it's very close, but it's not quite

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Irpin, so by God's grace, that has not significantly affected me.

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But yes, there was heavy battles in that area. I think the reason for it being is that it's a major highway into the capital city, and there's also a major, not a major, but there's a significant airport there, a military airport that would be very strategic for the

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Russian army to capture and then use to stage their assault on Kiev.

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And since we've last talked, there indeed have been many, many devastating battles, and many civilians have died.

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There's been a lot of bombing of just regular homes and apartment complexes where there's nothing but civilians or civilian targets, and so those cities have been evacuated.

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And in the process, I know of a brother in the Lord who died.

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He was a volunteer. He evacuated earlier with his family. He has a wife and a young child, and he left them, and he returned back to help others, and he was hit by,

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I'm not sure whether it was an airstrike or an artillery strike because he was helping a lady with her children, and she unfortunately died as well, as well as the children.

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And so, yeah, there's been a lot of death, a lot of suffering, and we're still praying for it all to end soon, but by God's grace,

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I have not been significantly affected because I'm located more to the southeast of where those battles were.

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Now, Pastor Rich Jensen, as we said at the outset, you have adopted two children from Ukraine who are now adults.

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Tell us about your own experiences in Ukraine, what you remember about it.

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And I don't know how young your children were when you adopted them, but, of course, if they were infants, they would have no memory.

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But are they old enough to have any memories of Ukraine, and what are you going through mentally and emotionally as you watch the unfolding of the terrorist attacks by Russia?

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This is not just your standard military action. These are the actions of terrorists.

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They are intentionally attacking civilians and hospitals and ambulances, and so tell us about your own experience in Ukraine and, again, what you remember about it, what you're going through, and, if at all, your children as well.

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Sure. Well, both my children are old enough. They do have memories of Ukraine.

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My oldest daughter from Ukraine, she was nine and a half when we adopted her, so she has very vivid memories.

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In fact, she's been in touch with one of her friends from the orphanage we adopted her from, and one of the tragedies of warfare we see.

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She was telling us that her friend was hiding in the basement of the building because the bombs are all around.

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They've been barricaded there. They can't leave. And during this time, her grandmother died, and they couldn't even get her out, so the poor grandmother's body is there, and this family is huddled around.

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They can't do much of anything else. Wow. Yeah, it's really bad.

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The orphanage that we adopted her from is in Kharkov, which obviously is one of the first cities that the

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Russians came into. I have vivid memories of Kharkov.

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I have a lot of friends there. We were treated so graciously. I mean, we wound up having so many friends that we actually have had some of them visit the

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United States, stay with us in our house, so we do have a very strong connection with Ukraine.

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And so this has really affected my family. We're spending a lot of time in prayer, you know, praying for the

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Ukrainian people because, like I say, we could not have been treated any better.

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And, of course, with Ukrainian daughters now, that connection is even stronger.

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So it's been very difficult for us. Well, since I cannot see you,

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I can't see you giving me facial expressions or waving your hand or anything, just feel free to interject into the discussion with a question of your own or questions plural for my cola.

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And if you have one now, feel free to ask. Sure. I was concerned because I know from my time in Ukraine there's a very close affinity between Russian people and Ukrainians because families crossing the border and all.

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Has that affected how things are going in Ukraine at all? Well, yes.

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So the borders are completely shut off, and especially in the areas near the

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Russian and Belarusian border, there's military conflict, so people try to stay clear of those areas.

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And if people are evacuating, most people are evacuating to the west of Ukraine and Western Europe.

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And, unfortunately, the way that the Russian propaganda is presenting this military conflict is that it's really

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Russia trying to defend its people, both in Russia and in Ukraine, and even

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Ukrainian people from NATO, from the West. And so many people in Russia see this as a war not really between Ukraine and Russia, but more so between Russia and NATO, Russia and America, and some nationalists or fascists, as they ridiculously call them in Ukraine.

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And so, unfortunately, right now the relationship between the two countries and the two people is not very good, and I see a lot of hatred on both sides.

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I see. And how are you—I don't even know if you're hearing…

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By the way, whoever is making a lot of noise there, perhaps you could try not to move around so much, it's really coming close to your microphone.

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How do you respond if you even hear these reports from U .S.

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Which reports? I was just about to explain. You hear pundits and politicians here in the

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United States on television saying that your president is behaving perhaps irrationally, that he should be more prone to be seeking to have some kind of diplomatic discussions with Putin, and that his—perhaps the word

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I'm looking for is brazen behavior.

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And, of course, I'm speaking from the words of the pundits and the politicians, and it's probably a minority of them saying these things, but that he is just going to lead thousands and thousands of more

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Ukrainians to their deaths by not behaving in a more diplomatic way and seeking to have some kind of more beneficial meetings with Putin.

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How do you react to that if you even are aware of it? Yeah, we're trying to stay aware of what's going on.

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We're praying for all the peace talks. There's been several rounds of peace talks.

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As far as I know, our president has reached out to the president of Russia to have a face -to -face conversation about how to resolve the conflict.

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And so far, as far as I know, the Russian president has declined, but he said maybe—I heard from one of his spokesmen that that possibility is open.

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Unfortunately, these peace talks have not really moved anything in any direction as far as we know.

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As far as I understand it, as far as it has been reported, Russia's demands are to denazify

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Ukraine, whatever that means. I've never heard that term before. They believe that the country is run by Nazis, fascists, extreme nationalist movement that is persecuting

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Russian speakers. And so one of the goals is to denazify the government.

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And they probably don't even really believe that, but if you could kill them. Well, how can they if the president of our country is

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Jewish? Right. And before he became a president, he was a comedian.

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He had nothing to do with politics. He didn't even speak Ukrainian before he became the president. But anyways, everybody knows that there is no such thing as—

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Well, everyone. I shouldn't say that. People who know what's really going on in Ukraine are completely aware of that.

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But Russian propaganda has been working and promoting the story that since 2014, when we had a change in power where the former president left or fled the country, and we elected a different president, and maybe at that time they were saying that, see, these extreme nationalists took over the country.

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But since then, this last president, Vladimir Zelensky, who is in power now, he's been elected, and he actually replaced the regime that came to power through that revolution, if you want to call it that way.

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But in any case, Russian propaganda has been saying that Ukraine is out of control with these

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Nazis who are in cahoots with NATO and the West. So one of the goals was to remove the current government, and the second goal was to prevent

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Ukraine from entering NATO or European Union or any other alliance. And the third goal was to protect and liberate the

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Russian -speaking people. And I know even today I was speaking with a brother.

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We had a service at our church, and he said that he has relatives in Russia, and they're writing them, his family here in Kiev that's being bombed, and they're writing and saying, don't worry, just wait a few more days and you will be liberated, and everything's going to be okay.

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So many people assume that Russia is pursuing that agenda, but that is completely inaccurate.

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It has nothing to do with the truth. And so even if Ukraine would want to agree to those terms, it would be impossible, because those are not realistic things.

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That's not something that can be done, because none of that really exists. And so basically, since nobody really understands what is the purpose of this war, what goals

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Putin is trying to achieve, it's really difficult to understand which way these negotiations can go, because it seems like what they want is they want

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Ukraine to cede Crimea, to say that Crimea is not a part of Ukrainian territory anymore.

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They want probably to take the eastern parts, the Donbass region, which is

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Donetsk region and Lugansk region, the so -called DNR and LNR, and probably some guarantees that Ukraine is not going to be part of NATO or any other pro -Western alliance.

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As far as the performance of our president, I think he has really surprised everyone, because the president, the one not before him, but the one that fled actually to Russia, he fled because he was afraid of his own people.

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And this guy, who, like I said, is a young guy, he was a comedian just five minutes ago. He's staying put.

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He's being brave and leading the country. And before the war, he wasn't that popular, because he wasn't able to defeat corruption.

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But now everybody thinks that he's doing such a stellar job, and he has over 90 % support from the people.

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He is really rallying the people, and I think he's doing a great job in the circumstances.

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I mean, I can't imagine who would want to be in his shoes right now. But I am afraid,

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I am certainly afraid that this success, if you want to call it, that Ukrainian military has experienced, because everybody assumed that Ukraine is not going to be able to withstand

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Russia's attack. But since Ukraine is holding off Russia fairly well, that there is a certain kind of bravado, a certain kind of hubris now that I hear from people, and there's all kinds of jokes that, well, maybe

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Ukraine doesn't need NATO, maybe NATO needs to align themselves with Ukraine, and all these things.

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I hope that this is not pride that will go before the fall. But I mean, the people of Ukraine really need to be on their knees and beg

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God for mercy, not to be proud and arrogant and think that they're hotshots.

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So hopefully Ukrainians will not become arrogant in face of some temporary success, but they will remain calm, cool, seek peace, restoration.

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And I know that our president and his advisors have communicated that they're willing to do anything that would be reasonable to end the war, to stop the bloodshed, stop the death of so many innocent people.

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Yeah, Chris, if I can jump in for a second. You mentioned that you're concerned that the people don't get proud and arrogant, but they need to be seeking the

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Lord. How are the churches faring during this? Have the churches been able to meet?

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Are they having worship services? Are they getting together? How is that working out? Yeah, so the churches,

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I feel like they're trying to do their best to respond. Obviously, there are certain areas that are under heavy attack, and churches there are not able to meet.

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Most people are just spending nights, days and nights, actually, in their basements, like you said, because they're afraid for their lives.

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And just today I've seen pictures of churches destroyed in Mariupol, the southern city by the

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Sea of Azov, that's been encircled and besieged by the Russian troops for several days now.

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People there are without electricity, water, food. There's a girl that died.

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I think she was six years old. She died from dehydration. So those people are in dire circumstances.

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They need immediate help. And so in places like that, unfortunately, they are unable to meet or even leave their house, for that matter.

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But in places where there is no direct military conflict, churches definitely meet.

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And there's been a lot of refugees within Ukraine and outside of Ukraine.

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So there's been a lot of work with that. Churches are hosting people. Churches are opening their buildings and facilities to house, to serve those who are fleeing from the war.

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And so I feel like the church is trying to do its best to use the resources available to them.

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There's been a lot of help from outside. And people are trying to do—I think

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Christians are trying to do the best to respond and to show mercy and to spread the gospel of Christ.

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So I've seen reports of some brothers from other areas sharing that people have been turning to Christ.

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So I certainly hope that the church would use this opportunity to remind people what truly matters, and that it's not just their earthly lives are at stake, but also their eternal lives as well.

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Praise God. Is there any disunity amongst the brethren in Christ about what is occurring?

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Are there those who are blaming the United States or other areas or people for the conflict that is occurring?

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Are there even any Russian loyalists that are not happy with the way

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Ukraine has responded? So I'm just curious about the mindset of brothers in Christ, because here in the

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United States and even in other places in the world like the U .K., there are many different disagreements that are revealed on an ongoing basis all around the world in regard to a whole host of issues.

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For instance, in the United Kingdom, there are people who are in lockstep with my confessional standards, the 1689

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Confession and so on, who are Reformed Baptists, and yet they are very opposed to the typical conservative

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American's vociferous defense of the right to bear arms and so on.

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There seems to be a much greater trust for the government in other places of the world, especially the

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U .K., it seems, than people have in the United States. So I know that there are disagreements in the body of Christ over all kinds of issues.

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And COVID and the mandates and the masks and the vaccines have divided the brethren in all parts of the world.

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And I know vividly here in the United States, there are night and day contrasts amongst people who may agree with each other theologically, but not over issues of politics.

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Have you witnessed any disharmony or disagreement amongst Ukrainian brothers in Christ? Well, Chris, like I shared during our last program, since 2014 and Russia's annexation of Crimea and then the military conflict that they started in the eastern part of Ukraine, even if there were people who were loyal to Russia or sympathetic to Putin and his regime, after they've witnessed the aggression, the violence and just what he turns the territories that he captures into, there's very, very few people in Ukraine who are sympathetic.

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And when the war started and they've seen what the Russian army is doing to civilians, it would be very difficult to find anyone who is sympathetic to the cause that the

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Russian president is promoting. And so in the churches right now regarding this issue, at least in Ukraine, I know that in the

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Ukrainian churches, there is unity and mutual support and people understand that this is a huge trial that the

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Lord has brought on us all. And everyone's trying to support and encourage one another.

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Like I said, Christians in Russia, you know, we are united by one culture.

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We are united that we were just united just a few years ago by the same language and many other things.

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So in some sense, the connection, as Pastor Rich noted, is pretty strong.

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But it has been a decisive blow has been dealt in 2014 with the annexation of Crimea, and then steadily and now definitely another blow to the unity and understanding.

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And so there's a lot of animosity between believers in Russia, Russian -speaking believers, and Russian -speaking believers in Ukraine.

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And there's a lot of divisiveness. And unfortunately, I would say that the relations are really bad.

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And it's going to take a long time for it to heal, because unfortunately, there doesn't seem to be a unity and understanding between the

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Christians in Russia and Ukraine. But as far as Christians in Ukraine, I think most of them, a great majority are in agreement and see this as an attack on our country and an opportunity to respond by serving those in need, trying to help protect lives and also spread

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God's kingdom. Well, we have to go to our first break. If my guests could mute their microphones during the break.

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And if you have any questions for Mykola Leliavsky and what is going on in Ukraine, my email address is

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ChrisArnzen at gmail .com, C -H -R -I -S -A -R -N -Z -E -N at gmail .com.

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36:07

Welcome back, this is Chris Arnzen, if you just tuned us in. We are interviewing today someone that I have grown very fond of,

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Mykola Leliovsky, Professor of Biblical Theology and Hermeneutics at Grace Bible Seminary in Kiev, Ukraine, and also a member of the leadership team at Grace Bible Church in Kiev.

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We are addressing an assessment of the Russian invasion of Ukraine from a Christian eyewitness and Ukrainian citizen, part two.

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We had our first discussion with Mykola two Mondays ago.

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And co -hosting the program with me is my dear friend, Pastor Rich Jensen of Hope Reform Baptist Church of Corham, Long Island, New York, who adopted two children from Ukraine.

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We have a listener question from Brooklyn, New York. And I'm looking for that question,

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I was just looking at it a minute ago. Oh, here it is. Andrew in Brooklyn, New York asks, let me ask a simple but hard question.

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Have you prayed for Vladimir Putin, the man that is waging war against your country?

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Yes, I have. And I will say that I have not prayed for the

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Lord to kill him and send him to hell, even though some of my brothers who were trying to encourage me from my friends from other countries, they told me that they do pray a prayer for God to kill

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Putin, basically on a daily basis. And even though there are, you know, in scripture we do find imprecatory psalms and things like that,

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I understand that God has a sovereign purpose in this and he is in control of everything.

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It is not ultimately Putin who brought his army to Ukraine, but God is in control of everything and he has a sovereign purpose, which is good, even though we may not understand it in the circumstances.

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But I have prayed for God to intervene and to stop his evil, to stop him from perpetrating more evil.

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But I do pray, just as Paul instructed us in 1 Timothy 2, for kings and those in authority, for presidents, even the wicked ones.

38:32

I mean, when I think about the rulers that were over the first believers, first Christians in the scriptures, they were not much better than Putin or Hitler or Stalin.

38:46

They were bloodthirsty tyrants who persecuted Christians, but we see the attitude that we want

38:53

God to save them. And so I hope and I pray regularly that God would save Vladimir Putin, would save those who are perpetrating these acts of evil, but I also pray that for God to intervene and stop them from harming more people and committing more evil acts.

39:17

We have RJ in White Plains, New York, who wants to know, we sort of delved into this a little bit when we introduced you at the beginning, but he wants to know how do you attribute the fact that you are alive and well in Ukraine right now?

39:34

Well, obviously, it's by God's great mercy. Right now, people who live in Ukraine, they understand that every day that they wake up and they're still alive and are in this world, it's just by God's grace and mercy.

39:52

And so by God's grace and mercy, the areas that have been heavily affected did not reach my location.

40:03

And so, so far, my life has not been in any immediate danger. And therefore,

40:09

I was able to stay put and continue gathering with believers in our church and going outside and carrying on with things like that.

40:19

So by God's grace, I am still unharmed and still remain in my local church and minister there.

40:26

And I hope that God will extend His grace and mercy and not only will allow me to continue ministering in the ways that He pleases, in the ways that it pleases

40:41

Him, but I also pray that God would end this war and the bloodshed would stop and people won't, more people won't lose their lives.

40:49

Now, are you, forgive me if you said this before, if you already answered this question, but are you in your hometown of Irpin now, or are you in Kyiv?

41:01

Actually, Irpin is not my hometown. Oh, Dr. White gave me false information. Well, Dr.

41:09

White and I, every time Dr. White came to Ukraine, we lived in Irpin because the ministry at the time was located there.

41:17

And so we have spent a significant amount of time there. And it's a suburb just outside of Kyiv.

41:25

I'm in the northeast corner, which is about maybe a 30, 35 -minute drive away from Irpin.

41:37

So, yes, I'm just outside. All righty, and we have

41:44

Joseph in south -central Pennsylvania who asks a question.

41:50

He says, during times like this around the world, we often see

41:56

Christians laying aside their theological and doctrinal differences in order to unite with brethren not from their own theological persuasion or denominations.

42:09

Sometimes that is a good thing when the gospel is shared, but sometimes it goes to an extreme where unity is found between those that profess to be

42:21

Bible believers and those that actually have a false gospel. Now, I understand that even

42:26

Christians can be actively involved in some ways with those in false religions when it comes to the physical needs of others and be involved in what has been nicknamed co -belligerence.

42:41

But have you witnessed any harmful or dangerous ecumenism that draws the line when

42:47

Christian brotherhood is claimed between Christians and those that have a false gospel?

42:56

Yeah, that's a very good question and a valid observation. And definitely I have observed that in the past in Ukraine.

43:03

In the last few years, there's been a huge push for some sort of ecumenism.

43:10

We've had these joint outreach services, and there's a big celebration of the 500 -year anniversary of the

43:21

Reformation. And I remember seeing these,

43:26

I don't know, the tents at these evangelistic festivals that were put up by extreme charismatic groups where they claimed to perform miracles and things like that, and that was all under the umbrella of celebrating the 500 -year anniversary of the

43:41

Reformation. So unfortunately, I would say, or just as I said last time, even though the

43:47

Christians in Ukraine, they seem sincere in their desire to serve the

43:55

Lord, to serve the people, they seem sincere in their desire to evangelize others.

44:02

There is a lack of discernment. There is a lack of maturity, biblical, theological, and oftentimes, you know,

44:12

I would say core issues of the gospel, the Trinity, justification by faith, things like that, they are laid aside in order to perform these ministries, the humanitarian aid and different kinds of acts of mercy and things like that.

44:33

So that is definitely regrettable and alarming.

44:40

But in these circumstances, I think since, as I said last time, this war kind of came suddenly and many people were not expecting it to be the way that it is, people are just scrambling to do what they can, and just they're staying within their denominations, they're staying within their communities.

44:59

I think when the war ends, hopefully soon, by God's grace, that will be more of a challenge as there will be more people willing to help, and there's going to be more finances coming in, that I feel like that will be a temptation to compromise some of your beliefs, even the important ones, in order to gain more support and to have more influence.

45:28

Now, over the years, I have held a very conservative, almost isolationist understanding of the

45:42

United States being involved in foreign affairs, foreign conflicts.

45:49

I have almost taken – I sometimes hesitate to call myself a

45:54

Christian libertarian because there are so many kinds of libertarians, and there are libertarians that would radically disagree with my opinions on having strong and secure borders of this nation and so on.

46:08

But I have been one to be against American involvement in foreign conflicts, and now

46:18

I'm not as comfortable with that opinion as I used to be, having come to know you and interview you, and sometimes when

46:28

I'm seeing what's going on, I could only wish that the United States would start sending squadrons of jets over there to Russia and so on.

46:39

But what is the typical opinion of the Ukrainians, especially the Christians that you have communication with, about their desire for assistance by the

46:52

United States? Do they want actual military involvement? Of course, there's going to be differences of opinion, but do they just want aid in regarding weaponry and armaments and so on?

47:05

What are you seeing and hearing yourself? And what is your opinion? Right.

47:11

I understand what you're saying, and I understand why you would hold to those views.

47:16

I understand that each country has a lot of its own problems to deal with, and nobody wants to send their people to fight in a different country, and especially if it's a country that most people don't know about and don't understand.

47:32

And unfortunately, as far as we know, the United States has been involved in pretty long conflicts in the

47:41

Middle East. And so, yeah, I mean, it makes sense to just mind your own business and let wars be resolved in and of themselves.

47:54

But I think there's two things that come into play here. The first is that when the

48:00

Soviet Union was dissolved and Ukraine gave up its nuclear arsenal, if I'm not mistaken, it was the third largest nuclear arsenal in the world after Soviet Union or Russia and the

48:14

United States. The United States, along with several other countries, including

48:20

Russia, signed a Budapest memorandum in which they guaranteed the protection of Ukraine's borders, the sovereignty of its territory.

48:32

So technically, that memorandum, at least the

48:37

Ukrainians assumed that that memorandum was guaranteed in exchange for us giving up nuclear weapons, the protection of the

48:47

United States and Russia. So in one sense, at least there is a document that our president, he actually addressed before the war started.

49:00

He said that, you know, that there is such a thing as a Budapest memorandum and these countries, they need to honor it.

49:07

And if they're not going to honor it, then Ukraine will consider the memorandum not being valid anymore.

49:13

And he was hinting at the possibility of entertaining developing nuclear weapons again because we do have nuclear power plants in Ukraine and we have the capability.

49:22

Obviously, it would take a long time because we don't have the necessary means to deploy those rockets or deploy the nuclear weapons and things like that.

49:35

So, you know, Ukraine is very far away from actually possessing nuclear weapons.

49:41

So in one sense, Ukrainians always understood that there is an obligation of the

49:47

United States to defend Ukraine because they encouraged Ukraine to give up its nuclear weapons.

49:53

And I think another thing is that in a case like this, in a case like Ukraine and Russia, where it is very clear who the aggressor is, it is very clear that Russia is acting in violation of anything human -like and is just pursuing a senseless war, attacking cities indiscriminately, killing thousands of civilians.

50:28

It is difficult for people to stand and watch and not wanting to help. And I know Ukraine has been putting information about thousands of U .S.

50:37

veterans joining the foreign battalion to fight against Russians.

50:43

And I know a lot of people want to intervene because it is just very clear who is wrong and who is right.

50:55

And I understand that people do feel bad for Ukraine because, you know, our army is much smaller and much less capable than Russian army.

51:07

So in this case, I would say the biggest thing I think that people should be aware of is that nowadays we don't live in a world where you can afford to be isolated, just as your gas prices tell you now, you know, what happens here affects life there.

51:25

And so we live in a global world and when, you know, a country like Russia is attacking the largest country in Europe that has, you know, nuclear power plants that they're shooting at and, you know, that is doing all these things, it's going to affect people one way or another.

51:50

And Ukrainians, obviously, they want all the help they can get. They would be glad if NATO intervened.

51:55

They would be glad if the deterrence that the Western nations tried to impose on Russia were much more severe.

52:05

But everybody sees that right now, unfortunately, the leadership in the United States lacks decisiveness, lacks the courage to stand up to Vladimir Putin.

52:16

And we understand that we're basically at his mercy. And so we are very thankful at the same time

52:24

Ukraine is very thankful that the West is giving us a lot of help. And I think without the

52:29

West's help we had no chance. But, you know, we have modern weaponry. Our military has been getting training with NATO troops.

52:38

But when we hear news that Poland, for example, was willing to provide airplanes but Biden personally, he said that he personally rejected that idea because he does not want to provoke

52:50

Vladimir Putin. Well, what does that tell to Vladimir Putin? You know, Biden doesn't want to intervene, so therefore

52:57

I can do whatever I want. So obviously that makes Ukrainians very unhappy. Right.

53:02

We have to go to our midway break right now. And I apologize, folks, because it is the longer, the normal break that we always have in the middle of the show.

53:10

Please be patient with us. We need to have this longer break because Grace Life Radio, 90 .1

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FM in Lake City, Florida, they require of us a longer break because FCC requires of them to localize this show geographically to Lake City, Florida, so they air their own public service announcements while we air our globally heard commercials.

53:31

So please be patient with us as we take this longer break. And send in your questions to ChrisArnzen at gmail .com,

53:38

C -H -R -I -S -A -R -N -Z -E -N at gmail .com. Give us your first name at least, your city and state of residence, and your country of residence.

53:46

We'll be right back after these messages. Don't go away. Music When Iron Sharpens Iron Radio first launched in 2005, the publishers of the

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Hello, my name is Anthony Uvino, and I'm one of the pastors at Hope Reformed Baptist Church in Quorum, New York, and also the host of the reformrookie .com

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Thanks for helping to keep Iron Sharpen's Iron Radio on the air. This is

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Hi, this is John Sampson, pastor of King's Church in Peoria, Arizona. Taking a moment of your day to talk about Chris Arnson and the

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Good to be back, Chris. I always enjoy our time here. I have to tell you, you're one of the better interviewers out there, and I've been doing this for more than 30 years.

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Wow, that's some compliment. How much do I owe you for that? You don't have to owe me anything.

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We're in good shape. I'm glad you said it on the air, so I don't have to brag about myself.

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01:10:33

Before we return to my guest, Mykola Olejowski of Kyiv, Ukraine, and also my co -host,

01:10:40

Pastor Rich Jensen of Hope Reform Baptist Church of Coram, Long Island, New York, we just have a couple more announcements.

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click support, then click, click to donate now. Last but not least, if you are not a member of a biblically faithful church like Hope Reform Baptist Church in Corum, Long Island, or like Grace Bible Church in Kiev, Ukraine, I have lists of Bible -believing churches, really sound doctrinally, really solid theologically,

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chrisarnson at gmail .com, and put I need a church in the subject line.

01:13:35

That is also the email address to send in a question to Mykola Lodayovsky in Kiev, Ukraine, as we continue our discussion on the

01:13:46

Russian invasion of Ukraine. And I would like to have you, specifically, we did this last time, but of course this bears repeating,

01:13:58

I would like you, Mykola, to give us specific ways that our listeners can pray for you and for Grace Bible Seminary and Grace Bible Church of Kiev, and not only how our listeners can pray for you, but what they can do physically in other ways to assist you during this perilous time.

01:14:22

Thank you so much, Chris. As I've said before, by God's grace, we have been relatively safe.

01:14:31

We have everything that we need. We have electricity. We have food and water. Now, of course, that situation may change at any moment.

01:14:39

We hear reports that Russia is preparing a large -scale assault on Kiev, and we've seen what they've done to cities like Kharkiv or Sumy or even

01:14:50

Mariupol right now that has been encircled by the enemy. And people have been without food, water, electricity for many days.

01:14:59

So for now, we are not in immediate need of those necessities.

01:15:06

And I guess the prayers would be for that to continue and for us to serve our communities.

01:15:14

We have been developing materials that we can distribute, tracts and other resources that we can give out to people.

01:15:22

We've been giving out Bibles. So please pray that God would reach His elect, that many hearts would be turned to the

01:15:31

Lord. Pray also for the safety of some of our members and faculty, some of the elderly, some of the faculty have very young children.

01:15:45

And so some have left Kiev and tried to relocate to areas that are in less dangerous areas like that.

01:15:55

So pray for safety. Pray for God's continual provision. Pray for us to be used as He pleases in the circumstances that we're found in.

01:16:07

And I know that Grace Community Church started or is featuring a donate link on their website, gracechurch .org.

01:16:16

So if you want to donate to that, you could go to gracechurch .org and support

01:16:23

Ukraine financially. But I feel like after the war is over, there's going to be a lot of need in restoring everything that's been destroyed.

01:16:33

Like I said, there's been church buildings that have been damaged. Even one of our professors, who was a pastor of the

01:16:40

Central Baptist Church in Chernigiv, which is 120 kilometers up north from Kiev, a rocket hit their building in the first couple of days of the war, and they weren't able to meet there.

01:16:53

The following Sunday, and now the city is being just shelled day and night.

01:17:01

And so they don't get out of their basement. And actually, his brother -in -law was hit by a bomb and died.

01:17:10

So right now, the people that I minister with and my friends, they're safe, and by God's grace, have everything that they need.

01:17:21

But I'm sure after the war is over, there's going to be a lot of need. And I know that I'm so thankful for all the brothers and sisters who have been praying.

01:17:32

There's been such an outpouring of love and encouragement and support that I've received from so many of my friends.

01:17:38

And even after the program was aired two Mondays ago, I've been contacted by a lot of listeners and received a lot of encouragement.

01:17:48

I know it's hard to wait for the Lord. I know it's hard to wait in these circumstances.

01:17:56

We want to act and respond, but sometimes the need is just not there at the moment.

01:18:03

And so if you would like to stay tuned and follow the ministry, we will definitely let you know if there are more urgent needs that arise.

01:18:16

But thank you so much for your prayers. God uses them greatly to strengthen us and encourage us, and we definitely appreciate all the help and support.

01:18:26

And we plan on, as long as Mykola is available, God willing, we plan to have

01:18:31

Mykola back on periodically for updates on what is happening there in Ukraine.

01:18:37

And before I go to another listener question, Pastor Rich Jensen, do you have a question of your own? I don't even know if Pastor Rich is still with us.

01:18:48

Okay. Let me ask one of the listeners. No, I'm here, Chris.

01:18:53

Oh, I'm sorry. I had the mic was muted. I didn't realize that. Okay. Yeah, actually,

01:18:59

I have a two -part question, if you would. One of the things that we're hearing a lot of the political pundits and the news outlets, they keep referring to the fact that Russia has the nuclear option on the table.

01:19:14

And that's become more and more prevalent in the news. Is that similar to what you are hearing?

01:19:21

Is that something that, as you look at it, is a real possibility? Well, I think the reason why they're saying that is because after the war started, the

01:19:32

Russian president gave a press conference where he told the minister of defense to put the armed forces in charge of nuclear weapons on high alert.

01:19:42

So he made an overt reference to him being willing to use nuclear weapons on anyone who will interfere in this conflict.

01:19:53

So I think that because of his statement, that's why everyone's discussing it. Whether it's a possibility or not, it's hard to tell.

01:20:00

Obviously, it's not like Putin has a button that he can push and a rocket is going to be launched. There's many other steps and processes and people involved in that.

01:20:11

So hopefully, even if that does happen, someone will have the sense to not continue and activate that option.

01:20:20

But, yeah, I mean, who would have thought that in our lifetime there would be even a talk of a possibility of a nuclear attack?

01:20:30

But here we are. Yeah, and if I can follow up on that, I was born right at the end of World War II.

01:20:39

And so I lived through the 50s, the Cold War here in the United States. And I can remember as a child laying in bed every time the fire siren would go off,

01:20:49

I would wake up and sometimes even break into a cold sweat wondering if this was going to be, you know, was this the

01:20:57

Soviets sending missiles and where were we going to get bombed? And that had a devastating effect on my whole generation during that time.

01:21:05

We actually had air raid drills where we had to go into, you know, sit under our desks, face away from the window.

01:21:13

And, you know, I don't know what good that was going to do. But anyway, it has a devastating effect, especially on children.

01:21:23

And have you seen with that looming possibility now, does that change the attitude of some people or even affected them negatively?

01:21:34

Yeah, there is a big concern about all the shock that's going to is like some of our professors that have small children.

01:21:44

They express their concern because, you know, there's threats of airstrikes every hour, if not more.

01:21:52

And there's explosions heard everywhere. Like I said, even though even though there hasn't been any significant military confrontation in our neighborhood, there are

01:22:03

Ukrainian artillery and there's explosions heard all throughout the city.

01:22:09

So and obviously children are scared. They don't understand. So if, you know, just the possibility of attack instilled such fear and dread and just the drills,

01:22:23

I can't imagine what actual war and death and losing your friends and having your home destroyed, how that's going to affect people.

01:22:36

Obviously, there's a lot of suffering, a lot of pain. But again, it's a good opportunity to think about your eternal life.

01:22:44

And, you know, our Lord said for us not to be afraid of those who can just destroy the body, but to be afraid to be afraid of God, because he can destroy our soul in hell.

01:22:56

So hopefully the church will use this opportunity to point people who are afraid, people who are suffering, people who have perhaps lost their possessions and even lost loved ones.

01:23:17

That the church would point them to the only one who can comfort them, the only one who can give them what their soul really needs and they can trust in Christ.

01:23:30

Amen. Amen. Thank you. We have BB in Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, who asks, please forgive me if you've already discussed this.

01:23:39

I'm just listening now. But have any Christians to your awareness, especially those roaming the streets of Ukraine, had any witnessing involvement with Russian soldiers who may be patrolling the areas and what the reaction, if any, by the soldiers has been?

01:24:02

Well, as far as I know, there hasn't been any of those encounters. I know that in occupied cities, there are there have been some cities that the

01:24:11

Russian forces have captured. There are believers that go out and pray and meet in the center of town.

01:24:20

And there has been interaction between Ukrainians and Russian soldiers, but as far as I know, there hasn't really been any significant interaction that I'm aware of.

01:24:34

But definitely, you know, again, I think as believers, personally, you know, my heart is breaking for the

01:24:41

Russian soldiers as well, as well, who are involved in this, because so many of them are dying. So many of them don't understand what they're doing.

01:24:49

And they were told one thing and many of them, there's been many of them who have been injured and captured or even just, you know, surrendered to the

01:24:59

Ukrainian army. And they said that, you know, we weren't aware of what's going on and where we're being sent.

01:25:05

And so so, yes, I mean, it would be amazing for for someone to come as an enemy combatant and either be captured or or just,

01:25:18

I don't know, patrolling their post and to hear the gospel and turn turn to the Lord. That would be that would be great.

01:25:24

That would be amazing. So that's something definitely to be praying for. And hopefully God will give those opportunities.

01:25:31

C .J. from Lindenhurst, Long Island, New York, wants to know what percentage of the country of Ukraine are evangelicals.

01:25:43

I think I've stated during our last program that about two percent of the country, by the most generous and broadest estimation, is evangelical.

01:25:52

So in a country of 40 million, if I'm not mistaken, that's about 800000 people.

01:25:58

But that includes that includes everyone. And I'm assuming that just like Christians all over the world, there are those out there who are heavily and actively and vociferously spreading the false teaching of the cults.

01:26:22

Yeah, I've said during the last program that the largest conservative denomination, which is the

01:26:28

Baptist denomination, has about one hundred fifty thousand people. But the

01:26:33

Jehovah's Witnesses have about that many. There's there's a lot of Jehovah's Witnesses in Ukraine. There is a

01:26:39

Mormon temple. There's all kinds of cults and false religions. There's Scientology and all kinds of stuff, you know, with with the

01:26:48

Iron Curtain falling and many good missionaries coming to the lands of Russia and Ukraine and bringing the gospel of Jesus Christ.

01:26:57

But unfortunately, people who spread false doctrine, false teaching have also come and established established themselves in our country.

01:27:09

But as I said last time, by God's grace, you know, Ukraine sometimes is referred to as the Bible Belt of Europe.

01:27:16

There's more evangelical Christians in Ukraine and Romania, I believe. So Ukraine and Romania has more evangelical

01:27:23

Christians than Russia and the rest of Western Europe put together. Wow. So so there's a lot of believers and a lot of Ukrainians actually are missionaries in Russia.

01:27:33

They establish churches there. There's a lot of Ukrainians that are living in Western Europe.

01:27:40

There's a lot of immigrants there and there's a lot of churches and some of the largest evangelical churches in Europe and Germany and other countries are

01:27:49

Russian speaking or Islamic people, Ukrainian, Russians, Belarusian. So, yeah, by God's grace, there's been a lot of a lot of fruit.

01:27:59

But like I said, the church is somewhat immature doctrinally and there's a great need for theological training for godly pastors to model the sound doctrine with their lives and sound philosophy of ministry.

01:28:19

So so there's much more to be done as well. Yes, I remember you just mentioned the

01:28:26

Mormons. I believe I saw something on television about a very lavish

01:28:31

Mormon temple that was erected in Ukraine that seems to have attracted people who are impoverished or in lower income brackets because they view the

01:28:43

Mormons as some kind of source of financial aid. Am I right in that? Well, yeah,

01:28:50

I think I think any ministry that's associated with the

01:28:55

West or the United States does use financial aid as means to attract people.

01:29:03

And so the temple in Kiev is huge. I mean, it's spectacular. And I remember as a student, anytime

01:29:10

I would go to my university, I would use public transportation. I would always see Mormon missionaries,

01:29:16

American Mormon missionaries in Kiev, inviting people to English classes or things like that.

01:29:22

And I've actually actually used Dr. White's materials to to share the gospel with them.

01:29:28

And a couple of Mormon missionaries came to my house and we talked about, you know, the gospel.

01:29:35

And one of them apparently was Mitt Romney's nephew. But yeah, so I've shared the gospel with them.

01:29:43

And I think it was interesting that when we started talking about predestination, that's when they said, you know, when

01:29:50

I told them that I believe in God's sovereignty and predestination, that's when they decided that there's no point in talking anymore.

01:29:56

But unfortunately, unfortunately, I don't know.

01:30:02

The Mormon missionaries that I've encountered lately, they're very wishy washy on what they believe.

01:30:09

I had to I had to explain to them some of the things that they believe and explain to them what grace means and in their church and what grace means in the

01:30:17

Bible. And and they just say, why can't we just all? Well, it's great. You know, you're a Christian. We're Christian. Why don't we just all get along and, you know, and help people live better lives and fight alcoholism or other social ills and things like that?

01:30:33

So. So, yeah, unfortunately, it's hard. It's hard to find a Mormon that really cares about what's true and really takes the

01:30:41

Bible seriously these days. Yeah, I've had the same experience. I had an initial experience with Mormons in the 80s when

01:30:49

I was a brand new Christian and had responded to a television commercial to have a book of Mormon delivered to my house by a

01:30:59

Mormon elder. And it was really an ambush planned on my part as a cage stage

01:31:05

Calvinist. And the Mormon that was in my living room, young man in his 20s, he was much more aggressive when he realized that I was not interested in an ecumenical dialogue with him.

01:31:23

He was much more aggressive about claiming that they were the one and only true church.

01:31:30

And then more recently, just even as little as a year ago or less here in Carlisle, Pennsylvania, where I am now living, the

01:31:41

Mormons that I have accosted in the streets recognizing their white shirts and black name tags and black ties.

01:31:51

I pursued dialogue with them, and they were really ecumenists saying exactly what you were just saying, that, oh, we're all just Christians, and why don't we all just get along?

01:32:02

But we have, again, as we did the last time you were on, we have

01:32:08

Marquetta, who has a question for you. And Marquetta is originally from Prague, and she's currently living in London, England.

01:32:20

And her question is, could you advise what is the best way to witness to Ukrainians living abroad at this time?

01:32:28

I don't necessarily mean the refugees, but the expatriates.

01:32:33

I have a Ukrainian friend living in the Czech Republic. Yeah, I think it's a great time to talk about eternal things, to talk about what really matters in life, to talk about why there is a war, to talk about sin, to talk about salvation.

01:32:52

I mean, there's plenty of different things you can bring up to strike up a conversation.

01:33:00

And like I said, Ukrainians are, for the most part, somewhat religious.

01:33:05

They are familiar with Christianity, but I remember for me,

01:33:11

I was baptized as a child in the Orthodox Church. But for me,

01:33:16

I remember when I was 15 years old and there was a brother who was evangelizing me.

01:33:23

He asked me if I believed in Christ, and I said, of course I do. And then he said, well, how does that impact your life? Do you have a relationship with God?

01:33:30

Do you understand what it means to actually believe? Because if it doesn't change how you live, then you really don't believe.

01:33:38

And that was for the first time that I thought about those things. Because the Orthodox Church has a little bit of a different approach to Christian life and the

01:33:47

Gospel. So, yeah, please use this situation, this opportunity to strike up a conversation with not just with Ukrainians, but anyone who is aware of the situation and what's going on and has compassion on people who are suffering, to bring up their relationship with the

01:34:06

Lord and whether they personally know Christ. That would be great.

01:34:13

That would be, I think, the best way to use these circumstances. We have an anonymous listener.

01:34:21

I'm not really certain why the person is remaining anonymous, but the question is, I know that your friend,

01:34:27

Dr. James R. White, has, at least in the past, had evangelistic outreaches to the

01:34:34

Mormons outside of their temple and other places where they have gathered, especially during huge events that they throw.

01:34:44

I was wondering if any evangelicals, especially Reformed evangelicals, are doing the same outside of the temple there in Kiev.

01:34:56

I'm not aware of that. I would say the Mormons that I've encountered, the Ukrainian Mormons, they are not very interested in dialogue.

01:35:07

It seems like they are looking for people who are not well -versed in the Scriptures, people who are not members of their local churches.

01:35:15

As soon as they find out that you're a member of a local church, they lose really any interest in you. So they want to attract people who are not really believers.

01:35:28

And I would say that most of the Ukrainian believers, the evangelicals in Ukraine, are not very well -versed in Mormon doctrine to be able to meaningfully communicate with them.

01:35:40

Obviously, you don't need to know everything that they believe to share the gospel of Jesus Christ. But I think there's a lot of misunderstanding of what the

01:35:49

Mormon Church is. And so, therefore, I haven't heard a lot of interactions between evangelicals and Mormons.

01:35:58

And for that matter, there's not a lot of interactions between evangelicals and Eastern Orthodox.

01:36:05

And I would say that the biggest group that has been targeted by the evangelical churches in Ukraine is definitely Jehovah's Witnesses, because Jehovah's Witnesses have this enormous zeal to spread their teaching, and they're always willing to converse with people on the streets.

01:36:20

And so I know a lot of me, personally, and a lot of my friends and other pastors have all had encounters with Jehovah's Witnesses, but not so much

01:36:31

Mormons. And, in fact, the Jehovah's Witnesses have an extra motivation, because they believe that witnessing or, quote -unquote, evangelizing is essential for them being welcomed into the new kingdom after their death.

01:36:50

The new earth. In fact, when you were talking about the

01:36:56

Mormon temple, I was just reminded of years ago, I think it may have been in the 90s, but Dr.

01:37:03

James R. White and I took a tour of a brand new Mormon temple in New York City during that time before they officially closed their doors to non -Mormons.

01:37:17

They apparently allow people who are not Mormons, the Gentiles, as they refer to us, to take a tour of the

01:37:26

Mormon temple. This was a much smaller temple, being crammed in some space in Manhattan.

01:37:34

They don't have the acreage that some places have, so you have a large, lavish temple.

01:37:40

But I remember how fascinated Dr. White was taking this tour, and I was bored to death, because I felt like I was just walking through an

01:37:49

Ethan Allen furniture store. I didn't see anything interesting. The only thing I found interesting was the baptistry tank, which was made out of some stone material or concrete or something that was shaped like a giant bowl held up by oxen.

01:38:10

And they had a jack for a video camera there, because they videotaped every baptism, because they also baptized for the dead, as you may know.

01:38:21

And so that just popped into my head when the listener was asking about the temple.

01:38:27

We are going to our final break right now. It's going to be much shorter than the other breaks. If you do have questions, please send them in immediately, because we are rapidly running out of time.

01:38:38

That email address, again, is chrisarnson at gmail dot com. chrisarnson at gmail dot com.

01:38:44

Give us your first name at least, city and state of residence, and country of residence. We'll be right back after these messages.

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That's ptlbiblerebinding .com. Hi, this is

01:50:08

President Biden. I want to encourage you to listen to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio with Chris Arnzen. Now, as you know, as a lapsed heathen

01:50:15

Catholic, I don't listen to it, but you should. Come on, man, what do you have to lose? Welcome back.

01:50:22

This is the final segment of our interview today with Mykola Olejowski, being interviewed live in Ukraine at this very moment from Kiev.

01:50:34

And we also have Pastor Rich Jensen of Hope Reformed Baptist Church of Corum, Long Island, New York, co -hosting today.

01:50:41

Before I go to any more of the listener questions, Pastor Rich, do you have any more questions of your own?

01:50:48

Not a question, just a comment from Mykola. Just to say it's so nice to meet you, you know, even though it's long distance and putting a face to it.

01:50:58

I just want to show you that we will be praying for you by name as well as the rest of you countrymen.

01:51:04

May God be with you. Thank you so much. It's been a pleasure also to be live with you on this program.

01:51:12

And I hope when all of this is over, the Lord will allow for an opportunity for us perhaps to meet in person, but if not, on the other side of eternity for sure.

01:51:22

Amen. Great. And we have Christopher in Western Suffolk County, Long Island, New York, who asks how prominent is atheism there in Ukraine?

01:51:36

And have you noticed any switching of ideologies because of the fear of what is happening right now?

01:51:46

Well, on the last program, I kind of went in depth in the history of atheism and the

01:51:54

Eastern Orthodox Church in Ukraine. I would say most Ukrainians are nominally religious, but there's definitely a lot of atheists.

01:52:02

One of my neighbors is an atheist. And the other day when I was able to get a couple of extra loaves of bread at the store, we were riding together in the elevator.

01:52:12

I live on the fifth floor. He lives above me. I offered him a piece of bread and also offered him a gospel track.

01:52:20

And he's a hardcore atheist. He was in the Soviet military for a long time. And so even though he says that he doesn't believe in God, he doesn't want to come to church, he did take the track.

01:52:32

He did say when the psalm a couple of days later, he did say that he started reading it. So I hope that God will work in his heart.

01:52:42

And even though he's so hardened against the gospel because of all the years of Soviet atheistic propaganda,

01:52:50

I hope that God will save him. We know that God's grace is more powerful than any sin.

01:52:57

And so I can't imagine how you can be an atheist and not lose heart and not be depressed about what's going on.

01:53:05

So I hope that even those who deny

01:53:11

God's existence would cry out to him for salvation in this desperate time of need. I also, and not to be insulting to our dear brothers and friends who are

01:53:24

Arminian, who do not believe in the sovereignty of God, who controls all things that occur or have occurred or will occur in heaven and on earth, including every single atom and molecule, how they would react to this without the knowledge and the trust and the confidence that God is indeed in control over all of these things.

01:53:59

Putin is not. The invading Russian armies are not. God is in control.

01:54:06

And, of course, even we who theologically believe these things are put to the test sometimes, and we sometimes forget to put our faith into practice.

01:54:16

We forget to live out our theology when the rubber meets the road. But isn't this true, that Romans 8 .28

01:54:25

is even true in the midst of the Russian -Ukraine conflict, that God will work together for the good for those who love

01:54:37

God and are called according to his purpose? Yes, yes, of course. And that's why having a robust theology is very important, and a robust theology of evil and how

01:54:47

God is in control of evil and how all of that is worked out. Because I know that many believers think that God has nothing to do with evil and it has to do with Satan or human free will.

01:54:59

But if God has nothing to do with evil, why pray to God? I mean, if he has nothing to do with it, then he's not going to help you.

01:55:06

So even today at church we've met, and I encouraged our congregation from Psalm 5, and we talked about how in this life between our regeneration and our glorification,

01:55:21

God's main purpose is to liken us to the image of his Son, just like Romans 8 .28 and 29 says.

01:55:27

And so that is the primary purpose even in these circumstances. We, of course, long for liberating grace.

01:55:34

We want to be liberated from these difficulties and these trials. But we also need God's transforming grace, and that's what we should always be concerned about.

01:55:44

Well, I want you to have the remaining minutes to basically summarize what you most want etched in the hearts and minds of our listeners today,

01:55:52

Mykola. Well, first of all, I want to express my gratitude to all the brothers and sisters who are praying.

01:56:01

I know that maybe you feel like you're not doing enough, but praying is very, very important.

01:56:08

God uses his prayers and his sovereignty as means to his ends.

01:56:14

And so please continue praying for the situation. Pray not only for safety, but also pray for God's glory to be shown even in these circumstances.

01:56:24

And over a million Ukrainians have already fled to Western Europe, and some of them are believers who will start churches there and minister.

01:56:34

So I'm sure God has great things in store that will come out of all of this. So keep praying for the people here who are in danger, for those who are fleeing, for those who are remaining and ministering.

01:56:49

And like I said, if you want to get involved, stay in touch and see what's happening and what needs you may want to support or get involved with later on.

01:57:02

But thank you so much, Chris, for this opportunity. It's always a pleasure to be on the show and share what

01:57:09

God is doing here and how the church is addressing this problem.

01:57:16

And I think we're all praying for all of this to end as soon as possible. But we have to trust God. He is, as we said, in control.

01:57:23

He is sovereign. And this is a great way for all of us to draw nearer to God and to put our faith into practice and show love and compassion to those who are far from Him.

01:57:41

And Pastor Rich Jensen, as a pastor, could you provide some final words of pastoral counsel and some encouragement and even chastisement, whatever is on your heart right now that you'd like to share with our audience as a pastor?

01:57:59

Well, I think the biggest thing at a time like this, first and foremost, it's not the last thing people think about praying.

01:58:06

They say, well, I can't do anything else, so I'll pray. Prayer should be the first thing that we do.

01:58:12

It's one of the weapons of our warfare. It is powerful to the tearing down of strongholds and whatnot.

01:58:20

Combination with studying the Word, that's what the church is all about.

01:58:25

And that's the way we should be looking at this whole situation in Ukraine.

01:58:31

I think, you know, my co -host said it best, you know, all things work together for good, even this.

01:58:38

And we know that this is under the sovereign control of God. And we just need to pray to Him that it would work out exactly that way and that we would see

01:58:48

Him glorified, you know, when this is all over. We see that God is exalted and glorified even through this conflict.

01:58:56

Amen. And let me remind our listeners of the websites of my guest and co -host.

01:59:02

Grace Bible Seminary in Kyiv can be found at gbs .org .ua.

01:59:08

That's gbs .org .ua. Grace Bible Church in Kyiv can be found at gracebiblechurch .org

01:59:17

.ua. gracebiblechurch .org .ua. And Hope Reformed Baptist Church of Coram, Long Island, New York can be found at hopereformedli .net.

01:59:29

hopereformedli .net. I want to thank both Mike Cola and Pastor Rich for being my guest and co -host on this program.

01:59:37

I look forward to having you both back on this program in the near future and often.

01:59:43

I want to thank all of our listeners who listened and especially those who took the time to write.

01:59:48

And I want you all to always remember for the rest of your lives that Jesus Christ is a far, far greater