November 9, 2020 Show with Dr. Tim Clarey on “Carved in Stone: Geologic Evidence of the Worldwide Flood” (Part 2)

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This is Chris Arnzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio wishing you all happy Monday on this ninth day of November 2020. And I'm glad, so glad to have back as my guest for the second time Dr. Tim Clary and he received a master of science in geology from the University of Wyoming, a master of science in hydrogeology from Western Michigan University, and a PhD in geology from Western Michigan University, who worked as an exploration geologist at Chevron USA from 1984 to 1992 developing oil drilling prospects and analyzing assets and lease purchases and was full professor and geosciences chair at Delta College in Michigan for 17 years before leaving in 2013 to join the science staff at the Institute for Creation Research having earlier conducted research with ICR in its FAST program and has published many papers on various aspects of the Rocky Mountains and has authored two college laboratory books and is the author of Dinosaurs, Marbles of God's Design and a contributor to the Guide to Dinosaurs and Creation Basics and Beyond.

The Institute for Creation Research and the Case for Creation Science

Today we are addressing part two of a discussion that we began a couple of weeks ago, Carved in Stone Geologic Evidence of the Worldwide Flood and it's my honor and privilege to welcome you back for the second time to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio Dr. Tim Clary.

It's great to be here Chris, great to be back. Amen, well I'm glad to have you back, in fact I intend God willing to have you back again soon to discuss dinosaurs and hopefully we'll give plenty of advance notice for especially parents to get their children to listen because I know children perhaps even especially boys love dinosaurs as I did growing up as a little kid and I still love dinosaurs.

If they made dinosaur pajamas in my size I'd be wearing them but they probably do actually somewhere but if you could before we go into the subject at hand tell our listeners about Institute for Creation Research.

Well the Institute for Creation Research was founded about 50 years.

Ago by Henry Morris Jr. who was the co-author of the really kind of restarted or re-read that book. Very few resources out there so ICR was founded. Keep contributing keep bringing forth the evidence.

Well praise God. And if anybody wants to look up more information about ICR or the Institute for Creation Research what is that website? It's www .ICR .org. ICR .org. Great. Well this is an important subject because a lot of the maligning the slandering of a Christian approach to science to intelligent design to the origins of the earth and all things for that matter is in the realm of geology.

And it's good to have somebody who actually has a doctorate in your field to show the world that we do have science on our side in the realm of creation in the realm of even a young earth creation and in the realm of geology.

And one of those things is the evidence of a worldwide flood. And perhaps you can summarize why this is something that the secular scientists tend to dismiss. It would seem on the surface to be a strange thing to claim with certainty didn't happen especially when they believe that the earth is many billions of years old.

So why they would be so adamantly opposed to the idea of a worldwide flood is somewhat strange. But if you could give our listeners the details on why this is so well in some ways it's a little.

Surprising because in this modern age even if you're a secular scientist you do very close to fully sequences or something so they see the evidence. But no one's really ever put it together that one year described in the time that they put in between these.

Of course time in between some of these layers they can in the red wall limestone for example above it. Years of time missing there. Perfectly flat you know. And you see that again and again again throughout the right there is the evidence of these floods that they just don't ever believe was a complete flood.

And it's that goes against their would kill all the land animals. Don't want to believe the bible global flood would be too again. Much of that occurred back in the 19th century. That was actually probably early.

And they kind of wanted to push the idea of you know moses and his writings of the bonnet time to be deposited. These rapidly forget like a sentence as they study the sediments across minimal flooding at the same time.

Geology, Paleontology, and the Global Flood Model

Great now in your field of geology.

What would be the primary areas of this study of the origins of the earth that would involve your expertise. I know that you would likely be when you write and speak speaking on even broader areas outside specifically geology on occasion anyway.

But what are the primary areas and does it overlap with paleontology and so on if you could tell.

Us about that. Well i primarily what i've been working on since i came to icr. More data today with things i did when i worked for shane. Things i'm doing now. I still learn in college now. It does overlap with paleontology in a lot of ways as well.

It's kind of important because you know where you are and we see there's a pattern to the fossil so the global pattern of the fossil. And it will admit that that in my opinion what the rocks really indicate is the different ecological zones.

As you go and kind of go up in elevation yellow seas and you get there's coal seams all over the earth. You see land animals there's marine animals. And you go higher up you get you know higher elevation plant.

So there's an order to the you got to remember the flood lasted it rose for 150 days. Low progression when it comes to fossils.

What theory better explains how we even have fossils. A theory that these animals and plant life lived millions or billions of years ago and somehow left these impressions that are now stone for us. Or the idea of a cataclysmic flood that instantly buried everything in its path uh and that that it was relatively much shorter a number of years ago adding to the thousands of years what would be the the more logical even from a scientific standpoint.

And a logical standpoint. Tell us about. Obviously your bias. But if you could just explain why one is even more logically one even more logically makes sense than the other.

Well fossils don't tell us that we find it like the flood in a one mile by three mile area and we see this in other locations thousands and thousands of the same way it's all buried in a part of grand canyon.

You see these massive massive scale and the secular scientists have to say well this is a huge one thousand of a global flood. But you see all this influence all this global flood. If there's one flood now fossils can form quickly too under the right conditions dating methods to find and they're under the right conditions.

In the laboratory they've made fossils you know petrification can occur within 90 days and we see it's been 40 50 years and they can occur processes that kind of goes up the other way. Within those fossils we're finding again and again there's nearly 100 papers now that are found.

No proteins still preserved in the dinosaur bones only than the dinosaurs things that supposedly go back to half of their original proteins and tissues. That should not be there. There's no way to preserve those things that long.

But the secularists have kind of for 20 years erect femur. More and more of these every year they're finding things that are they have really no explanation other than that. The fossil is a.

Young age. Well you just said that the secular scientists are throwing their hands in the area in the air and saying this is impossible. What do you mean by they're saying this is impossible. Are they saying that these are fraudulent manufactured pieces of evidence.

And i think. Well go ahead. No that's basically what i was going to say. Well i think most of.

Them are accepting that there's a few journals that still won't publish any papers dealing with this. You know there's a few old school papers. They're like humfrumf we're not publishing this new nonsense but most of the psychotic scientists are not recognizing.

Okay they're out these what they call chemical fossils. They try to downplay the implications of them obviously. And the way they get around the age problems. They say well we just don't understand how to preserve these things because we're seeing them over and over and over and every part of the world.

Original tissues is not just in one layer. It and all of this is telling us that these rock layers are.

Fossil Frauds, Archaeoraptor, and Scientific Dogma

Really when it comes to frauds don't we know for certain that some of the acclaimed discoveries by paleontologists and geologists and others especially in years past or maybe you can tell us about a recent one but these turn out to be totally manufactured fakes.

Oh yeah there's one. In 1999 it was the.

Geographic if you get a chance to go to a library or somewhere to find a copy of it. They talked about archaeoraptor so it's different than archaeopteryx. This archaeopteryx is a real bird in the jurassic layers uh kind of midway through the flood.

But archaeoraptor was totally fabricated because they're pushing this that they bought here back in gem show which is mistake number one. Never name a new species yourself even though you think you know where it's from way to hard to see.

And you know the hour-long tv. All the major paleontologists the world. I won't name names but all the major paleontologists out there were like yes this is great this is a half bird half dinosaur just what we thought we would find.

And because we know that they evoke and so there are fakes out there unfortunately. You need to write in or you need to remind yourself as a scientist if you didn't pull it out of the ground yourself you know.

Or have someone pull it out and take pictures. Uh they can. They can fabricate things really well. And it wasn't until they did some ct.

Scans. Do people normally get very wealthy when they for you know fraudulently invent some of these things or manufacture them. Yes somebody did along the line because they know what.

Chinese guy that extracted it they got some money and they named it they even gave it a name. You know the type of it's amazing how you just kind of science goes out the window when you want to when you have something that and again unfortunately scientists are doing i think i talked about this last time.

What science is doing is they're doing verification science but they think they already know they wanted to see so they were willing to believe it.

They found out in the end that it was yeah they're. They're defying what science is really supposed to be and they are acting as if even though they would never admit this. They are acting as if their understanding of the age of the earth and their denial of an intelligent designer and all these things.

They act as if this is their religion and they tenaciously cling to it like religious dogma and excommunicate and declare as heretics obviously not using those words those that make discoveries even when they are authentic like the tissue on dinosaur bones and so on that that smacks their uh so-called theories in the face.

Well yeah i wrote about that a little.

Bit in my book once i became a non-scientist and you know many of the guys the oil company they're like well you know you were pretty good to have a plan oil or you were. You know you published some good papers you're really good still well received and well thought of.

Back at the university of western michigan university you may be a good student and smart but you just don't. It's consensus. It's not all the other scientists believe this. If you're following the data the data will lead you to the beauty of it of the research.

I'm doing what they really do.

Show how to interact with that. Everything about it. Shows a young now uh even more important i believe are the uh frauds that uh manufactured the so-called skeletal remains of uh transitional species from animal to human.

Am i right. Yeah this that's. I mean we just talked.

About the archaea raptor is one of those. But there's been others you know the human evolution. And even though i did some research into homeless footprints. Just like a human either a scientist i believe from sweden who has a blog and he shows that basically an age.

Then what they're saying probably from the ice age. Ice age. Human footprints after this lake covered up. In the process they just. But his argument was they dated these they called. About any geologist that knows sedimentology knows if this isn't an ash if it's just a layer that has some ash in it.

If you believe the psychics are most likely modern day human footprints. And nothing to do with lucy walked up. Ever hear this. This is you know things that are talked about even amongst the secularists.

But it doesn't make print that people read every day. So the things that don't fit their retraction. National geographic did. In the following year they realized they're similar to finding you know the meteorite that landed into life on mars.

And that's all people here. When scientists go back this is true. Whole genome of human. And. But yet they still were 98 like a champ. Really they're still being taught. Yeah there's still a lot of that.

There's people are still here. They're 90.

Totally shown. That's interesting that you say that i saw a documentary and i can't remember the name of it. I think the documentary was named after the name of a chimp that was being studied and this was a secular documentary.

It was a documentary created by secular scientists evolutionists darwinian evolutionists and so on and it was uh basically i think the task was the teaching this chimp sign language was adding to the evidence that we evolved from the apes and yet even these secular scientists at the end of the film discredited the idea that this was proof of that in any way shape or form or even close to it which was a was refreshingly surprising.

That is i i actually saw a documentary.

And these are people with phds in public even on the site just a story. They try to be roman myths. And you know they try to dismiss the bible as though that's just a story. It's kind of a cute little story about an arc.

And you know being whooped you do. And my book really lays it out there. I haven't heard anybody uh really refute my data. I mean people that don't agree with me. Geologists. They're like well we like your data interpretation.

But i challenge them and say how would you interpret the same level at each continent at the same time. The same peak on the same all the continents at the same time. And then they all go down at the same time.

It just matches. Exactly. You know you can almost go verse by verse in genesis. Chapter 7 doesn't give us all the details but it gives us enough to tell us that there was a now you know you're flooding.

There's land animals show up in great numbers before that. It's almost all marine. And so you can actually kind of map out. And i tried to do. I think the strongest thing in my book is it really does show.

The rhythm guide used might have been this rapid plate tectonic movement. This seems to be the the right answer. That seems to be at this point the best theory to explain the age after that by the.

Way i looked up that documentary i was talking about it was called project nim and as nancy i am as a michael that was the one about the chimpanzees i'm talking about. But we have to go our first break right now.

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Sharpens iron radio. And our guest today if you just tuned us in is dr tim clary. And we are disgusting. Disgusting. It's not disgusting. It's a wonderful it's a wonderful book. We are discussing his book carved in stone.

And if you'd like to join us on the air to find uh more about geological evidence for the worldwide flood our email address is chris arnzen at gmail .com. Chris arnzen at gmail .com. And please as always when you're asking a question you give us your first name at least your city and state of residence and your country of residence.

If you live outside the usa please only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter. Um we were talking before about the secular scientists who have been involved in frauds uh of geological discoveries paleontological discoveries and so on.

Uh what about the other side. Have we ever been caught. Not that you and i have been caught but have been those who claim to be christians or claim to be supporting the biblical narrative. Uh ever been known to commit these kinds of frauds.

There's actually a a movie. It's a comedy uh called don verdine. Uh sam rockwell is the actor portraying this biblical archaeologist who searches for items that can prove the stories from the bible are true.

And turns out you know he was making a lot of money on uh things that were hoaxes and so on. But anyway do you know of anything like that that is going on or has going on. Not really. Not really.

Specific the money or the fame. Uh sometimes maybe as a maybe beyond the realm of science and so at icl we try to that we there's a fine line there sometimes because sometimes the discoveries are made in there.

You know we didn't have maybe the techniques that we have today to document things. Somebody's human fossils. But i think there are some you know. Well-meaning you mentioned the word prove. You know archaeology can prove things.

Well there's very few things you can happen again. You know it happened once you get the effects of that flood that made those rocks and how they got there and when they got there. That's that's what we have to decide.

Some pretty good inferences. So geology is one of those you do as a geologist. But we don't know the conditions of these inferences that can change the condition what we're seeing again and again and again especially in really see in the last 20 years different changes that were.

I talk about this in my book. There's a what steve austin called in order to get those fine layers and finally the same thing as true length. I can't see that you actually have to have moving rock record of what's happening today.

So to me that's kind of shocking. It isn't really well publicized and go with this. But every year time because they take when i was a kid a real young kid i found a fossil.

In the woods not far from my home across the street and i lived on the south shore of long island amityville long island which was we had our own bay and so i was probably 10 minutes by car from the bay and i found in this woods a a fossil of a sponge.

It was actually a whole sponge. When i don't i don't mean the kind that you use to take a bath i mean the animal. Uh the marine animal sponge. Uh and it was a solid as a rock and there was a it was an impression of a fish a clear impression of a fish on top of it.

So in other words the fish likely died and was buried instantaneously by the mud as you were saying happens to form a fossil. And this was not all that far below the surface of this wooded area where my friends and i were playing around and digging.

Now of course this could have been the possession of somebody that lost it in that woods didn't necessarily originally come from there i don't know but but it i unfortunately i lost it being the stupid kid that i was.

I have no idea where that that sponge is today. But uh the the it still is mind-boggling to me why. Scientists secular scientists seem to scoff at the much quicker uh forming of these things and the much more recent forming of these things like like i was just on a tour of a cave here in pennsylvania recently with some friends and the way that they come up with these millions of years.

Uh for the stalagmites and stalactites and so on. Uh you know if these are caused by water dripping you would think that that would be impossible for it to even last that long.

You know what i'm saying they don't consider conditions you're going to get different amounts. These caves they turned up dramatically change to project back the ruins of years and then even some cases billions of years is quite ridiculous because everything when we try to do that you know if we're out by just a little tiny bit that's going to do the decay rate today.

Consider that this groundwater flow uniform forever. Never never. It's really kind of that. We know the age you know in the last thousand or two thousand years historic or two thousand years or a couple of decades they find things that are millions of years old.

And so when we know the actual age of.

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