July 15, 2021 Show with Kenneth R. Samples on “Christianity Cross-Examined” (Part 2)
July 15, 2021
KENNETH R. SAMPLES, Reformed Anglican theologian, author & Senior Research Scholar at Reasons To Believe, who will address PART 2 of:
“CHRISTIANITY CROSS- EXAMINED: Is It Rational, Relevant & Good?”
Transcript
Live from the historic parsonage of the 19th century gospel minister George Norcross in downtown
Carlisle, Pennsylvania, it's Iron Sharpens Iron.
This is a radio platform in which pastors, Christian scholars, and theologians address the burning issues facing
the church and the world today.
Proverbs chapter 27 verse 17 tells us iron sharpens iron so one man sharpens
another.
Matthew Henry said that in this passage we are cautioned to take heed with whom we converse and directed to
have in view in conversation to make one another wiser and better.
It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next two hours and we hope to hear from you the listener with
your own questions.
And now here's your host Chris Arnzen.
Good afternoon Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida, and the rest of humanity living on the
planet earth who are listening via live streaming at ironsharpensironradio .com.
This is Chris Arnzen your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio wishing you all a happy Thursday on
this 15th day of July 2021.
And for those of you who yesterday heard a program
that was part one of a discussion that we actually began weeks ago
on Christianity cross -examined is it rational relevant and good.
That was a rerun we were airing yesterday on July 14th and
so today if indeed you are listening on July 15th this is not a rerun it may
be a rerun at some other date but if you're listening on Thursday July 15th this is a live broadcast
and it's part two of that very discussion that we aired as a
rerun yesterday.
Christianity cross -examined this is part two of that discussion and
that is the title of Ken Samples' new book and Kenneth
R. Samples is a former panelist on the Bible Answer Man.
He is a reformed Anglican theologian he's an author and currently the senior
research scholar at Reasons to Believe and it's my honor and privilege to welcome you back to Iron Sharpens
Iron Radio my dear old friend Kenneth R. Samples.
Chris it's good to talk with you again.
I enjoy our discussion.
Oh it is my pleasure brother and.
I really thoroughly enjoyed our previous discussion on Christianity
cross -examined is it rational relevant and good.
And the last time we discussed your book on the air we
got very thoroughly involved in addressing.
Is it rational and relevant.
But probably the most important part is it good.
We had very little time to address at the end because we had already
nearly completely run out of time and only had a couple of minutes to squeeze in that very
prominent and vital aspect of Christianity cross -examined.
In fact before we go to the topic that we really did not adequately address last
time is Christianity good.
Tell us perhaps a summary or a recap of
Christianity.
Christianity cross -examined why you wrote the book.
And perhaps a little bit of what we covered when it comes to Christianity.
Being rational and relevant.
You know when I was hosting the Bible Answer Man when I was one of the
panelists back in the early 19th
when I would go to a college or university
students were asking me almost
exist.
I noticed
about 10 or 15 years ago and I've this is my 25th year working it
I noticed about a decade or so ago that when RTB would send me to a couple
students were asking different questions.
I still got occasional truth questions but they asked me a lot of questions about whether
Christianity was actually a Christianity been good for women.
Has Christianity been good for racial minorities.
What about the God of the Old Testament.
Is he a God of wrath.
And how does that for myself.
Chris that I wonder if I'm seeing a
shift that was
an era where
truth
question.
And so I thought to
myself you know maybe in this apologetic book with
truth questions or whether Christian is it logically
relevant so
I look at them
about on whether Christianity
has been.
I think if there is a distinctive feature of
this book I think it's setting it up that way.
And by the way I might I might tell you that I have interacted with
atheists and this is kind of a in
the introduction of the book is now I'm not sure that every atheist would
fit in one of these two categories but I know that some do one atheist might reason this
way.
Chris they may say look maybe it wouldn't be a bad idea if God
exists by the death of my body.
Maybe I would be reunited with my loved ones.
But the problem is Christianity is just not rational.
It's not something I can I can in good conscience rationally believe.
Now I don't know if the atheist Graham Oppie fits that category but he might he's a leading
academic atheist.
Now there's another type of atheist.
The other type of atheist says something like this.
Oh no there's arguments for God and there's arguments for Christianity and some of the
people who make them are pretty sharp reasonable people.
But the fact is I don't want that God to exist.
I don't want that God intruding into my life pushing his his moral
dictates.
I think Thomas Nagel the New York philosopher of mine New York University fits
really well into that category.
Now again I'm not saying all atheists are in those camps.
I've heard a my problem is
Islam is I just I don't want that kind of God to exist.
I can't see that God is a as a moral being.
So I kind of unveil up that in my new book means
questions that skeptical people really ask.
And I try to quote
as far as the relevancy of.
Christianity.
If you want to give a very brief overview of what we've already addressed.
Yeah I think that you know Christianity speaks in I think the most
relevant way possible it speaks to the human condition.
I mean
one of
the reasons
notes are
are
brokenness
20 evidences for that.
If if that's if that's the
case all of us are going to die conquer death then you need
to know it.
So I think Christianity is quite relevant in its application.
Of course people
may wrongly and.
Many many many unfortunately many many many people do
they will react to the Bible and say it is not relevant because
look at the condemnations they have against homosexuality
and look at the roles the specific roles they have
for men and women in certain areas of life.
These these things are outdated.
Well that's because the majority of humans
have changed.
That doesn't mean truth has changed just because the world has
become more or the population of the world has become
increasingly more selfish and demanding that they
write the rules.
And that many things that the Bible commanded or
prohibited just because those things are
either rejected or embraced.
Rejected if they were commands of God and embrace if they were things that God condemns
as wicked just because humans in a greater majority
have responded that way doesn't mean that it's.
The problem is with the Bible.
The problem is with.
Humans right.
Let me give you a powerful contrast which i think it is.
Um i watched a lot of uh the late
Christopher Hitchens yes uh journalist
articulate wrote a
great
said that you
can never
be alone you can never be free intruding on your
space.
I contrast that Saint Augustine said
your name even when you are even
when you're
closer to God
is close
contrast the
God's.
But where's Augustine's.
Right there reaching out to you.
I thought wow what a
power.
And yeah.
Isn't it interesting that when the Lord is
softening the heart of someone that was lost
or just simply in regard to somebody who is already born again
that the Bible is so relevant and always has been ever since
God gifted it to his people.
Uh you you will see how the Bible speaks to
you personally even though written thousands of years ago uh.
And that is unlike uh culture uh when you see
old movies when you see uh or even read
secular literature there is a stark contrast
typically from yesterday uh from what we uh
experienced today.
And sometimes we laugh at things how they change but the word with the word of God.
And even uh biblically faithful Christians
who have written uh valuable volumes for us to bless the church of
all ages when you read the Puritans when you read uh even further back the writings
of the Reformers how they strike a chord uh even though some of the
language if the if the edition of whatever it is you're reading has not been updated in
modern English even if some of the phraseology and the wording and so forth may be
a bit antiquated the content and.
Message hits right on and strikes a chord as if it was written yesterday
and powerfully in the case of
two
brothers in
the and God yes it
was such a shame that
uh after Christopher
Hitchens
accepted.
My invitation to debate James White.
And uh I was so looking forward to witnessing that exchange between two great
minds on opposite ends of the spectrum.
When it comes to ideology uh it was such a shame that uh he
had to cancel because of his uh developing and being diagnosed with esophageal
cancer which eventually took his life.
But uh I uh had the posters all printed up oh wow and was
was getting ready uh had already begun actually to promote the event and
just tragically it never came to be.
Yeah uh.
Well uh Christianity is good or if you want to
put it in a question form as your as your subtitle does.
Is Christianity good.
Uh as you just hinted at uh there are many people who do not think
Christianity is good.
They think that it has been of great harm to humanity whether it is
uh due to the oppression of people because of their
skin color their ethnicity uh that is in their minds and what they
have been brainwashed to believe in our modern education system.
They think that Christianity has been a horrible thing uh for humanity.
A horrible thing for the oppression of women and a horrible thing for
the oppression of those with different sexual preferences.
Or I don't even know if that is an acceptable way to phrase it today.
They the the left changes the dictionary so often I don't know if I'm up to date with
with what they demand although I really don't care if I'm up to date with what they demand
uh.
But uh so obviously you are a Christian uh you obviously
believe Christianity is good.
And if you could start explaining some reasons why uh even
uh on the basis of how humanity has been helped
obviously only God can determine and define what is good and what is evil and in all truth.
But there are even ways that there have been orthodox Jews
and even atheists and people of other religions who have come to recognize.
I know that I personally have benefited enormously
incalculably.
Uh and my ancestors and uh those
that would share my heritage have benefited greatly from
Christianity's existence even though I and my people
as it were do not share that religion.
I have even heard orthodox Jews and others make statements like that.
So tell us so yeah how do.
You respond to that question.
Is Christianity.
Good.
Yeah.
I think it's a fair question.
I don't begrudge anybody we've got.
Let me talk first of all about uh
Chris.
Science began one time.
What's
interesting.
Of course when I was growing up
I was told
that they
weren't
nearly as
dark as what.
Not to
say
that the
Chinese algebra is an Arabic word sexual
firepower.
The educational system uh came out of.
So many of the great
can also talk
about some
of the social
suggested and
preoccupied with those topics
of largely
abolitionists viewed the Bible
as teaching the fundamental principle that people are made in the image of God
and that abolition of slavery
headed by people who are secularists.
If you if you deny that the world is created we could also
talk about
law and
government.
The idea of of rights not coming from government
but coming from God and the idea that people again
have
some people have said of John Calvin.
And by the way I think Calvin is probably the
most idea of liberty.
Calvin's ideas had a strong influence on some historians
would say for example it's hard to imagine America without the
problem.
We could also talk about charity and philanthropy.
You know when I was a kid I'd see these trucks drive through the neighborhood.
You know I would see salvation
in the ancient world.
Chris there
was a treat.
And God again and again in the old testament tells the
foreigners that created
orphanages.
It was Christian development that there are people
suffering.
They couldn't be cured but they could be a
Christianity doesn't mean there
aren't.
Some areas are
dealing with fallen broken
reject.
But all in all Christianity is not recognized in my mind for the
enormous benevolence that it's brought to people on planet earth.
In fact I think.
You brought up something very important about things done in the name of Christ because not everything
done in the name of Christ is of Christ so right and we will pick up on
that when we return from our first break.
If you'd like to join us on the air with a question of your own our email address is chrisarnsen at gmail .com c
-h -r -i -s -a -r -n -z -e -n at gmail .com.
Give us your first name at least your city and state of residence in your country of residence.
If you live outside the USA don't go away we'll be right back with Ken.
Samples and part two of our discussion on his new book Christianity cross -examined.
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Welcome back.
This is chris armson if you just tuned us in.
Our guest today for the entire program is kenneth r.
Samples.
This is part two of a discussion that we aired that we began a number of weeks ago and
aired a rerun of yesterday.
Christianity cross examined.
Is it rational relevant and good.
If you have a question our email address is chris arnson at gmail .com.
Chrisarnzen at gmail .com.
As always give us your first name at least your city and state of residence in your country of residence if you live outside the usa.
Now uh opponents of christianity critics skeptics
uh they will often bring up things that professing christians have done
throughout history and lay the charge at christianity itself
as being the root and the blame for these evils.
Like chattel slavery is probably the most often repeated thing because there were
admittedly many christians even christians that we agree with theologically and
agree with on a host of other issues who promoted slavery.
The southern baptist convention at one time was a predominantly calvinist
institution and it promoted the the
institution as it were of slavery uh and having
said that we we must also remember that the reformed presbyterian church
was the first denomination uh to openly uh oppose slavery and
conduct integrated worship services and bible studies and so on.
Uh but uh the fact of the matter is that these christians who promoted and
participated in and even fought for things
that we recognize today as being horrific and evil and wicked and even
satanic like chattel slavery uh this was never something that was
promoted in the word of god as something that god was with which god was
pleased or that god commanded aren't people very often confusing because of the
word being used slavery uh the the fact that uh
god's people throughout the ages uh did have uh
enslavement of prisoners of war uh people who
actually sold themselves into slavery because they could not pay debts.
And there are a host of other reasons why god's people participated in slavery
that had nothing to do with the kind of chattel slavery that was known
in england and other parts of europe and america that that in fact
had a very crucial element in it uh the the type of slavery that was practiced in
the united states which was a crucial element of the reason the civil war was fought
uh that that that that crucial element involved
something that was so evil in the scriptures that god commanded the death penalty
for doing it and that is man stealing uh stealing a man and selling him
was a sin punishable by death and that was a crucial element in the
uh in the way that slaves initially found themselves on the shores
of america and other parts of the world where slavery was.
Practiced am i right.
Yeah that's exactly right.
And i i
think you're these
critics they think
of the
antebellum.
Thought it
makes me terrible evil that it that it was and is there are
still people today that
are.
It makes me think that slavery was not just an american problem or even a
caucasian problem.
Slavery seems to be a fundamental human problem.
Still goes on where.
Blacks and slave blacks in the sudan and other parts of africa and the world.
This is exactly.
Right.
And uh what you have in the old testament is by and large indentured servitude.
And even
the
more difficult issues of israel taking foreign slaves in battle.
Uh remember that yahweh reminds the jews again and again don't
treat the way the egyptians treated you.
And so there are principles in the in
the torah in the mosaic
code.
What are we to say about these kinds of things.
I completely agree.
I mean i think jonathan edwards is arguably the greatest.
And yet while his son and uh close
associate in ministry were abolitionists battling against slavery
edwards in
our modern day is a lot of people think if they were
placed back
and up i would tell you that um you know christians are not without
blind spots and everything has not been.
Let me tell you this that the old testament set down
and in the new testament in
galatians 3 verse 28 this revelatory statement by the apostle paul
note in the christian church no difference between jew gentile slave
free are one
incredible primitive christian church.
You people who were and
then you had slave.
I think i think again um what ultimately ended and made
illegal slavery in europe and america.
And could i say because i think our country gets a
lot of criticism these days.
I know my family came from west virginia.
I know that west virginia was very proud that these against the
thought of war over these kinds of issues.
So yeah history is messy.
Um but i think that we also need to factor this in chris that god has
a in philosophy we talk about atelios a purpose.
I'm old enough to remember martin luther king preaching during the civil rights movement.
And he says that the arc of history is long but it tends toward justice.
Formed anglican i say amen is sovereign.
And he has a purpose even in corrupted history to bring about his purposes.
And uh i think christianity uh by and
large.
In fact it's interesting you.
Uh brought up the fact that you are a reformed anglican and the church of
england is a very vivid example of uh god using
uh history uh to bring about the fulfillment of a plan.
And even though the church of england involved a very wicked king henry
the eighth who uh his archbishop thomas cranmer didn't
even believe his friend henry was regenerate
until uh henry's deathbed uh where cranmer said
if you believe in justification by faith alone squeeze my hand.
And he did.
Because a lot of people don't realize even though uh henry uh helped to
launch the church of england's protestant identity he he remained theologically
roman catholic.
Um but in spite of this wicked king being involved in the
genesis of the church many fine and biblically
faithful and christ loving men and women and children
rose up out.
Of that that spread the true gospel.
Am i right.
Absolutely.
And you know when you when you think about history again i come back to this.
This idea of you know england had a lot of power
and sometimes they use that power to oppress people.
They also spread other things like the bible like
democracy.
Like you think of those kinds of issues.
And you have people coming out of the church of england again uh
wilberforce in in in europe and again in america.
You look these you took these issues
seriously and so i i think to blame i
think reflects a poor understanding of.
And even in the east and
it's oh it's also interesting how people view uh themselves so
highly that they believe if they were born and raised in an era
let's say in the united states prior to the civil war where slavery had already
been an established institution for centuries
they think they could have so easily flipped a switch and that slaves would be free and
safe immediately.
Uh you know for people who have that uh insanely high and
narcissistic view of themselves uh people very often who reject
uh original sin and total depravity they view the same uh they view the garden in
the same way.
They uh say that if they were adam or eve they never would have fallen for
satan's seduction.
So therefore they uh believe that it is insane.
And it's ridiculous for mankind to have bore the the
curse of adam and eve's sin because i would have done better.
And isn't this.
Isn't this the height of pride really.
And i think chris if you.
Look at history and you see the brokenness of humanity.
You see the fallenness of humanity.
You see the doctrine of original sin.
Remember that's the bible is diagnosing humans that way and it's you know
islam denies original sin.
Uh eastern orthodoxy has difficulty.
It is fallen in adam
sin nature.
So you know if you're troubled by hypocrisy and i am as well if you're troubled
by the fold remember that one of the fundamental teachings of
scripture are uh is that human beings are are sinful.
And chris i love it that in in philippians 2 this this ancient
colossian uh to the philippian epistle it says that jesus didn't hold
on to his privileged position
on our behalf.
I think that's incredibly powerful.
And i think that that's why two of the largest people groups to join christianity at the
earliest point in its development slaves they heard
something in jesus of nazareth.
They they saw something in him that they didn't find in
fine.
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My friend chris arnson and i will be joined by several of our other friends including voddie justin
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More than 20 other speakers will be joining us and the lineup this year includes my pastor john macarthur.
For details visit g3 conference .com.
That's g3 conference .com.
Chris arnson and i hope to see you september 30th through october 2nd at g3
2021.
This is phil johnson reminding you that christ is supreme overall.
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Getting a driver's license running a cash register flipping burgers passing sixth grade
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Chris arnzen host of iron sharpens iron radio.
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Hi this is john sampson pastor of king's church.
In peoria arizona taking a moment of your day to talk about chris arnzen and the iron sharpens iron
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I consider chris a true friend and a man of high integrity.
He's a skilled interviewer who's not afraid to ask the big penetrating questions while always defending the key
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I've always been happy to point people to this podcast knowing it's one of the very few safe places on the internet
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I believe this podcast needs to be heard far and wide.
This is a day of great spiritual compromise and yet god has raised chris up for just such a time.
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Financially would you consider sending either a one -time gift or even becoming a regular monthly
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Taylor chris armson of iron sharpens.
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Tell pastor dunn that you heard about grace covenant baptist church.
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My name is anthony uvinio and i'm one of the pastors at hope reform.
Baptist church in quorum new york and also the host of the reformrookie .com website.
I want you to know that if you enjoy listening to the iron sharpens iron radio show like i do you can now find it on the
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Just subscribe on the itunes app and listen to the iron sharpens iron radio show at any time day or night.
Please be sure to also give it a good review and pass it along to anyone who would benefit from the teaching and many
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Truth is so hard to come by these days so don't waste your time with fluff or fake news.
Subscribe to the iron sharpens iron radio podcast right now and while you're at it you can also sign up for the
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The reform rookie podcast and youtube channel is sure to have something to offer everyone seeking biblical truth.
And finally if you're looking to worship in a reformed church that holds to the 1689 london baptist confession
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and thanks for listening.
Anchored in truth ministries is the.
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Anchored in truth is in partnership with 36 church plants as well as radio stations
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with an aim to glorify god and reach the nations with the gospel.
It is a blessing to see how god has used anchored in truth in so many different contexts
globally as well as locally.
To find out more about this vital work worldwide visit anchored in truth dot
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Said give yourself unto reading.
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He will not use the thoughts of other men's brains.
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They are a vital a primary a premier sponsor of this program and we
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So i ask you to please visit solid -ground -books .com frequently and purchase generously.
And remember you're not only going to be doing solid -ground -books .com an enormous favor
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that you heard about them from chris arnzen on iron sharpens iron radio before we return to our discussion with ken samples
on part two of a discussion that we aired that we began uh airing
a number of weeks ago and in fact we aired part one as a rerun yesterday.
But before we return to part two i would ask of your patience as we
provide you with some important announcements.
The first is continue to pray for my oldest brother john
76 now in a skilled nursing facility
after leaving the hospital where he continues to battle pneumonia.
He has cancer and critical stage emphysema.
Pneumonia is always deadly but it's even a lot more deadly for a man of my
brother's age and with his medical conditions.
So please pray that lord has mercy on him and spares his life and most
importantly gives him the gift of eternal life.
My brother has made no clear uh statements that he has
embraced the true gospel.
But i did receive a very encouraging email from him today.
Actually it was a private message on on messenger facebook messenger
very encouraging to me it may sound very simple and small to those
listening but to me it was enormous.
He voluntarily told me without me asking him and without me coaching him.
He voluntarily told me that he prays every day and that he prays
very simple prayers much like uh he learned as a child
that are simple conversations with god and that made
my heart rejoice.
Uh it is not as detailed a message from him that i would like i would love to hear him
singing praises to the lord that he has embraced the gospel in very clear terms.
But but even hearing that from my brother is an enormous source of
comfort and encouragement to me.
And i replied by not only saying amen to his using very
simple prayers and conversations with god
i reminded him or informed him for the first time if he did not know this
that our lord provides us with his blessing on such simple
childlike prayers as we find in luke chapter 18 9
through 14 a very famous portion of scripture where a pharisee and a tax
collector are in the same temple praying and the pharisee has a much more
flowery and elaborate prayer but it is also a very uh prideful and
boastful prayer.
In fact it said says that he prayed to himself and he was basically boasting
about all the things that he did not do uh as wicked people do.
He was boasting about being a better person than others in his mind.
And the tax collector beat his chest and couldn't even raise his eyes to heaven and said lord be
merciful to me as sinner.
And jesus said that the tax collector was saved that he went home justified
that day.
And i reminded my brother or told my brother for the first time
that our mother on her deathbed dying of pancreatic cancer
voluntarily and without coaching brought that text up when i asked
her if she believed she was going to heaven.
And our mother at 70 years old dying of cancer said she believed she
was going to heaven.
And she gave that story as her basis because she said chris i am that tax
collector.
So i did tell my brother that and hopefully if he has not already embraced the gospel this
will uh help lead him there in all truth
please continue to pray for him.
Also folks if you love this show and you do not want it to disappear please go to iron
sharpens iron radio .com click support then click click to donate.
Now you could donate instantly with a debit or credit card if you prefer
snail mail sending in checks through your local postal service.
By all means uh do so.
And when you click support at iron sharpens iron radio .com a physical address will also appear on the screen
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If you'd like to advertise with this by all means send me an email to chrisarnson at gmail .com and put advertising in the subject
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But you need to be promoting something that is at the very least compatible with what we believe.
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Remember folks please don't ever siphon money away from your regular giving that you're accustomed to to your own local church where
you are a member in order to give to iron sharpens iron radio.
In other words never punish your church financially by blessing iron sharpens iron radio financially.
Uh the the church has been
first and foremost in my mind next to god.
Of course when i launched this program i always wanted to be a friend to the church and the
pastor of the local church a helping hand and a platform to the church and the pastor
of the local church.
I never wanted to do anything to hinder or hurt local churches and that includes financially.
So please do not siphon them siphon any money away from giving to them in order to
give to us.
Also please do not plunge your family into financial peril by giving to iron sharpens radio.
If you are really struggling to survive and make ends meet those two things are commands of god and scripture
providing for church and providing for family.
Providing for my radio show is obviously not a command of god and scripture.
But if you love this show and you don't want it to disappear and you are
financially blessed by god above and beyond your ability to obey those two commands providing for church and
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You have extra money for recreational purposes and trivial purposes.
Please i'm urging you use some of that money use even a lot of that money
to help us remain on the air.
If indeed you love the show and don't want it to disappear.
We have been hurt financially tremendously by the coronavirus pandemic hysteria
because many people in our audience have been giving less or have ceased giving
because the coronavirus pandemic hysteria has damaged their own livelihoods.
At times they it has made them unemployed.
So please help us replenish that which was lost by going to iron sharpens iron radio .com click support.
Then click click to donate now.
Also folks if you are not a member of a local bible believing church a biblically faithful christ honoring church no
matter where on the planet earth you live i may be able to help you find a church as i have already done with people
spanning the globe in our audience i have extensive lists all over the planet
earth of biblically sound theologically sound
god honoring faithful churches and i may be able to refer you
to one right near your home maybe even just minutes from your home.
So send me an email to chrisorenson at gmail .com and put i need a church in the subject line and that is
also the email address where you can send in questions to ken samples.
That's chris arnzen at gmail .com.
Chris arnzen at gmail .com.
C h r i s a r n z e n at gmail .com.
Give us your first name at least your city and state of residence and your country of residence if you live outside of
the good old usa uh so ken tell us more about why
christianity is good.
And uh obviously if we as christians believe christianity is
from god that this is the true faith of god.
We obviously believe it must be good because god is good always
good and only good to his people.
So to give us some more reasons why we should.
Be confident christianity is good.
Yeah that's uh such an important thing.
Today are questioning uh the goodness of christianity.
Well again i think if we you know if we look at
yahweh he's.
He's unlike the gods on mount olympus
yahweh is different.
He watches out
again this
idea that
so many different
varieties
that human beings again have.
That's a very strong component.
It was very different than
safety net
sharing.
Their is uh
the christ.
The early christians.
They treated everyone as if they mattered was
regardless of
their country of origin.
You know we live at a time where people these categories of race gender and
class.
But what you find in christianity is a.
You know we
could go into other areas.
Chris.
Uh the development of beauty.
Think about the the areas of uh the aesthetic side of life.
Christianity has played a very powerful role.
Church was the patron of the arts.
So there are many ways that that christianity has been has been good for the world.
And uh you know whether it's the ymca or
and that is not the song by the village people you're referring to.
That's correct.
Uh the ymca actually was started by a christian group.
You know i would tell you this chris young men's christian association.
That's exactly right.
I had a friend who struggles with alcohol and i went to
some meetings with him just to kind of be supportive of him and i was
reinciples that they early
ideas had been influenced by.
You know there are
many areas you can look
at.
Let's see.
Here we have an anonymous listener who asks
before the break.
You were mentioning that the bible prohibits the stealing of a human being
and selling him or her.
Where in the bible is that.
Oh okay that's in exodus.
Uh exodus uh 21 21 16 is where you can
find that prohibition which is punishable by death.
And of course there may have been slave owners who balked at that and said oh i didn't steal anybody.
I bought these slaves.
Well they were originally kidnapped uh in their in their
heritage they wound up on the different shores of different continents
and different nations uh to be sold.
Initially because they were uh kidnapped and sold.
But anyway um uh by the way uh if you uh would like to
provide for us your full name and mailing address uh obviously off the air through an
email uh we will not divulge your identity.
You said you wanted to remain anonymous but you have won a free copy of christianity cross -examined by our friend ken
samples a compliments of reasons to believe and also compliments of cumberland
valley bible book service cvbbs .com cvbbs .com who will be
shipping that book out to you.
And if you are a first -time questioner you're also going to get a free new american standard bible.
That is if you are a first -time questioner.
So we hope to hear from you soon.
Uh let's see here we have another anonymous uh listener.
The anonymous listener says i have been dealing with people in my own home
who are professing christians and yet they are opposed to
christianity as an organized religion and don't believe that they are
compelled to be members of any church because that they say that that's where
men always screw things up.
So how shall i answer these family members during these ongoing arguments that
we have over this very good question.
And i think a very common problem in christendom is it not uh in
christianity that uh you have a lot of people i know personally people that
either bounce from church to church to church to church or are not a member of any church and never go to any
church because they have no heartfelt
attachment to the church.
They don't think that god requires of them to be subject to the authority of local
elders and to be members of local churches.
And therefore they just stay at home on sunday or uh church hop
perpetually for decades.
So how do you respond to people like that.
Yeah i think that you're right.
This is a very relevant question i i think there's a couple elements that
i'd want to speak to.
One is we have a lot of people i think maybe especially today who think that their
relationship with god is personal
that is they look
as a religion.
And i try to remind people that it's true you have a personal relationship with
god.
Rule out the fact.
Two um scripture is
very clear that
we're to god.
You can.
Again one of the challenges that we have in kind of our industry
and um i think even more than that a lot of people
which good can be done by your church
things like that.
So absolutely.
Uh uh being part of an option.
Yes.
And uh it is again uh very arrogant for a.
Christian i mean the bible.
The bible itself uh lists specific
requirements for those who are to be leaders and teachers and therefore
being a member of a church is obviously uh
an important thing.
It's the height of arrogance to think i don't need anybody else.
I just need my bible and i can just sit at home and i am
smarter and wiser and i could just uh interpret the scriptures just as good as anybody else
maybe better uh than anyone else.
And uh i have never ever seen that work out.
Well have you.
No so
much to be benefited and uh by not
doing vulnerable you know
again i think i i think people i think many modern people don't like to think
of christianity as a religion.
They think of it as very personal relationship
and all
kinds of other things.
So encourage and and invite people back to.
Yeah and let's not forget hebrews 13 verse 17.
Obey those who have the rule over you and submit yourselves for they keep watch
over your souls as ones who must give an account that they may do it
with joy and not with grief for that is unprofitable for you.
So for you to think that you know your bible and yet think that you don't need to be submissive
to god -appointed elders in a local church that that's just proof that you really don't know the scriptures
wouldn't you agree.
Yeah
because we want good
again.
I think
there's
this individuality that people
you know and
i think we have to be cautious also.
I'm sure you would agree with this ken.
Knowing of your kind and compassionate and tender heart.
And i'm not i'm not exaggerating i do uh believe those are very
uh noticeable and strong elements of your character.
But we have to be careful not to just beat up and yell at and scold
and rebuke people who are not members of a local bible believing church.
Because very often not always but very often these are people who
are victims of very serious abuse either in a cult or a
false religion or even a church that is theologically sound on paper.
But have leaders that really violated the scriptural principles
of church leadership and and have either mentally emotionally and spiritually
abused their congregants but perhaps even physically and molested them sexually.
And who knows.
But as i have said to people when they have responded that they are a victim of something
like that and they said they'll never be a a member of a church again i i
remind them first of all do not reject jesus because of judas.
Uh judas was one of christ's hand -picked apostles.
And in an earthly realm judas led jesus to his death.
Now obviously we know god ordained that and jesus willingly laid down his life
for his sheep.
He was not forced to do this.
But on an earthly sense judas betrayed his his friend uh a
man who appointed him as an apostle.
And so why would we think why should we think that the church is
going to be perfect here on earth there are going to be judas's.
In fact uh one of the reasons we know the scriptures are true is that it warns against
false teachers false apostles apostles.
And if they were not in existence we would have reason to doubt uh the
truthfulness of the scriptures.
Am i making sense.
Here absolutely i mean chapter 11 of my book.
I talk about the question of so many christians so
unlike christ.
In fact how did you phrase that.
Because there was that stupid sound effect by the computer that drowned you out.
The question of what.
Yeah chapter 11 is why are so many christians so unlike christ.
Okay.
And and of course they're.
You're.
Actually you're right chris.
There are people that have um they have been victims and they have been treated badly
clergy.
Sometimes by elders sometimes by other christian
individuals.
But i think what's critical in all of that is the recognition that you know ken samples and
chris arnson you know we might step on your toes we might be difficult people at various times
but i guarantee jesus isn't going to let you down.
And uh underscore how important you
know to be gracious.
Um we want to we want to put our best arguments forward we want to make our case.
You know we're saved by grace.
I know i desire to be a gracious i want to
contend for the truth i want to promote unity.
But i want to be a very charitable individual.
So sometimes if you might discover is there really a
lot of very caring christian encourage
you and kind of help.
You weren't so part of that.
Second part of the book chris is to try to talk about uh how christians can
also be very powerful who have been hurt
and uh you know there are there are too many hypocrites but jesus is not one of them.
He will never fail you amen.
And that goes back again to the a denial of the necessity of being a
member of the body of christ.
All goes back to really self -absorption narcissism
uh where you think that you don't need anybody else you could do it better than anybody else
or just as good at the very least.
And that is every single person i have seen behave that way has made a
shipwreck of their faith and life.
Uh so although we have to be tender and patient and compassionate
with those that we know and love who are not members of the local church we still have to remind them
perpetually remind them that they need to be attached to the body of christ.
In fact we have a first time i think it's a first time listener or at least first time questioner
jw in dallas texas.
And i don't know if jw means he's a jehovah's witness or those are his initials.
J actually as i read the question i see he can't be a jehovah's witness.
Now isn't the church one of the primary ways that the
lord draws the loss to salvation.
I understand there are occasions like the thief on the cross
where people have come to saving faith in christ apart from a connection to the church.
But isn't that the normal and primary ways that he saves people.
Making that one of the best examples of why christianity is good.
Oh yeah i agree with everything he just said.
How about you again.
Yeah absolutely.
I mean we we tend to have uh i think over the last couple you
know kind of evangelism that is.
You know i think what that misses
however is that the vast majority of people hear and
understand christianity because they are brought into a church.
Often they're born into families of parents
nurture their kids in the faith.
I mean the church has many roles to play.
You know when things go on in the church that problems.
But i think often we we do not hear about the very gracious people
official who want to help each other and the tremendous friendships and and
relationships that we can have.
And you're very good at that chris.
I mean you really have a.
You're constantly talking about the importance of being part of the body of christ.
I mean even your even telling people not to support your show.
If it takes it away from supporting the church i mean that takes a lot of humility.
That's not the typical way that uh you know present
yourself but it it again shows your depth of.
Yeah i was just actually reminded by a
pastor recently who that's his favorite part.
Of the show and he actually is submitting his uh
his request that the church he pastors uh add iron trip and zion
radio to a domestic missionary budget every month.
So i hope that that church that pastors congregation is as much
uh in favor of that idea as he is.
Yeah very good i like it.
Uh we're going to our final break.
It's going to be a lot more brief than the other breaks.
If you have a question you'd like to join our other listeners with a question of your own
on the air please send it to chris arnzen at gmail .com.
C -h -r -i -s -a -r -n -z -e -n at gmail .com.
Give us your first name at least your city and state of residence and your country of residence
if you live outside the usa and only remain anonymous.
If your question involves a personal and private matter we'll be right back after these messages so don't go away.
Chris arnzen host of iron sharpens iron radio announcing a new website with an exciting offer from world
magazine my trusted source for news from a christian perspective.
Try world now at no charge for 90 days by going to get world now
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I'm james white of alpha and omega ministries my friend chris arnzen host of iron sharpens iron radio and i
are headed down to atlanta georgia once again for the g3 conference.
This year's g3 will be held thursday september 30th through saturday october 2nd.
On the theme christ is supreme over all i'll be joined by over 20 other speakers and
musicians to lead in the worship of god through preaching teaching and singing including john macarthur phil
johnson conrad and bayway daryl bernard harrison and virgil walker.
For details visit g3 conference .com.
That's g3 conference .com.
Chris arnzen and i hope to see you september 30th through october 2nd at g3 21.
This is james white reminding you that christ is supreme overall.
Iron sharpens iron.
Radio.
First launched in 2005 the publishers of the new american standard bible were among my
very first sponsors.
It gives me joy knowing that many scholars and pastors in the iron sharpens iron radio audience have been
sticking with or switching to the nasb.
I'm pastor nate pickowitz of harvest bible church in gilminton ironworks new hampshire and the nasb
is my bible of choice.
I'm pastor rich.
Jensen of hope reform baptist church in quorum new york and the nasb is my bible of
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Pastor sule prince of oakwood wesleyan church in toronto ontario canada and the
nasb is my bible.
Of choice.
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I'm pastor roy owens jr of the church in friendship in hockley texas and the nasb is
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Here's a great way for your church to help keep iron.
Sharpens iron radio on the air pastors are your pew bibles tattered and falling apart.
Consider restocking your pews with the nasb and tell the publishers you heard about them
from chris arnson on iron.
Sharpens iron radio.
Go to nasbible .com that's nasbible .com to place your order.
If you love iron sharpens iron radio one of the best ways you can help keep the show on the air is
by supporting our advertisers.
One such faithful advertiser who really believes in what chris arnton is doing is
daniel p patafuco serious injury lawyer and christian apologist.
Dan is the president and founder of the historical bible society.
Their mission to foster belief in the credibility of scripture as the written word of god.
They go to various churches schools and institutions to publicly display a rare
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This 17th century hand engraved chart shows the family tree of jesus christ
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This book is complete with gorgeous full -size illustrations of noah's ark and the tower of
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Originals of this work are in museums and nobody's ever made it accessible to the public
in a large book form before you can have your own copy of this 44 page genealogy
book for a donation of 35 dollars or more.
Visit historical bible society .org.
That's historical bible society .org.
Thanks for helping to keep iron sharpens iron radio on the air
linbrook baptist.
Church on 225 earl avenue in linbrook long island is teaching god's timeless truths in the 21st.
Century.
Our church is far more than a sunday worship service.
It's a place of learning where scriptures are studied and the preaching of the gospel is clear and relevant.
It's like a gym where one can exercise their faith through community involvement.
It's like a hospital for wounded souls where one can find compassionate people and healing.
We're a diverse family of all ages enthusiastically serving our lord jesus christ in fellowship play and
together.
Hi i'm pastor bob.
Waldeman and i invite you to come and join us here at linbrook baptist church and see all that call linbrook
baptist at 516 -599 -9402 that's 516 -599
-9402 or visit linbrook baptist .org.
That's linbrook baptist .org.
We are excited to announce another new member of the iron sharpens.
Iron radio advertising family bhanu gadi owner of three new york pharmacies
lee's drugs of floral long beach chemists and prescription center of long island in
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Bhanu gadi earned a doctorate in pharmacy degree and is very knowledgeable on the current coronavirus
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To find the pharmacy nearest you call 516 -354 -2000
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Don't forget to ask about their discount generic drug program.
Pastor bill saso.
Grace church at franklin.
Here in the beautiful state of tennessee our congregation is one of a growing number of churches
who love and support iron sharpens iron radio financially.
Grace church at franklin is an independent autonomous body of believers which strives
to clearly declare the whole counsel of god as revealed in scripture through the person and work
of our lord jesus christ.
And of course the end of which we strive is the glory of god.
If you live near franklin tennessee and franklin is just south of nashville maybe 10 minutes
or you are visiting this area or you have friends and loved ones nearby we hope you will
join us some lord's day in worshiping our god and savior.
Please feel free to contact me if you have more questions about grace church at franklin.
Our website is gracechurchatfranklin .org.
That's gracechurchatfranklin .org.
This is pastor bill sasa.
Wishing you all the richest blessings of our sovereign lord god savior
and king jesus christ today and always.
Charles headings burgeon once said give yourself unto reading.
The man who never reads will never be read.
He who never quotes will never be quoted.
He will not use the thoughts of other men's brains proves he has no brains of his own.
You need to read solid ground christian books as a publisher and book distributor who takes these words
of the prince of preachers to heart.
The mission of solid ground christian books is to bring back treasures of the past to minister to christians in the present and
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Since its beginning in 2001 solid ground has been committed to publish god -centered christ exalting
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We invite you to go treasure hunting at solid -ground -books .com that's
solid -ground -books .com and see what priceless literary gems from the past or
present you can unearth from solid ground.
Solid ground christian books is honored to be a weekly sponsor.
Of iron sharpens iron radio.
I'm dr tony costa professor of apologetics and islam at toronto.
Baptist seminary.
I'm thrilled to introduce to you a church where i've been invited to speak and have grown to love
hope reform baptist church in quorum long island new york.
Pastored by rich jensen and christopher mcdowell.
It's such a joy to witness and experience fellowship with people of god like the dear saints at hope reform baptist church
in quorum who have an intensely passionate desire to continue digging deeper and deeper into
the unfathomable riches of christ in his holy word and to enthusiastically proclaim
christ jesus the king and his doctrines of sovereign grace in suffolk county long island and
beyond.
I hope you also have the privilege of discovering this precious congregation and receive the blessing
of being showered by their as i have.
For more information on hope reform baptist church go to hope reformed li .net
that's hope reformed li
.net or call 631 -696 -5711
that's 631 -696 -5711.
Tell the folks at hope reform baptist church of quorum long island new york that you heard about them from tony costa
on iron.
Sharpens irons welcome back.
And ten samples.
I'd like you to have uh before we go to any other listener.
Questions.
If we have time to take any uh after you're finished i'd like you to
uninterrupted give our listeners several minutes of explanation
and description of what you most want etched in their hearts and minds today about this subject.
Christianity cross examined.
Yeah thanks chris.
Um you know i think it's it's very important to you
know what i attempt
to do in that book.
Try to again.
The first but the
second part of
the book it
i try
to honestly address the
kinds of objections that people really do raise.
Um we talked a bit about slave joshua's
conquest of the canaanites.
I look at christendom.
There are non -christians that they're not.
They don't understand.
I try to look at that.
What i'm attempting to do in the book is to help uh christians.
I think christianity cross examined is a book that a christian could get a lot of use out of.
And i think it's the kind of book you could actually give to a non -christian.
To fly wrote the book.
One of the things i do
like about the way the book you have to read look at
the and you can gravitate toward the issues that you are
most appreciate you giving me an opportunity to talk with
your listeners about my latest book.
Oh the pleasure is all mine brother.
And we do have.
Uh susan margaret in dalton county pennsylvania with a question.
Uh the question is how do we respond to people that will say to us
truthfully that how can christianity be the best
religion ideology and theology if it often produces
people that are worse husbands than some lost
husbands are worse wives than some lost wives are worse parents.
And we could go on and on.
Christianity does not always produce better human beings than the world has to offer.
How do we respond to this.
Because it is a truth that is very difficult to deal with.
Yeah that is true.
And we always also have to remember the the inadequate or horrible husband or
wife or parent didn't die for the sins of his people.
Yep.
But if you could go on uh with your own answer to that.
Yeah.
Well.
I appreciate that very candid and uh you know very pointed
reasonable one too.
I think i'd make a couple points.
Uh first of all piece of christianity
whether it is nation
revealed to god doesn't rest with uh all of the followers of the religion.
Ultimately it rests with the life death and resurrection of jesus christ.
Yeah there are husbands uh who are christians who have
a great
christians who with all kinds of things.
But remember what the bible says.
The bible says that people are fallen they are sins.
That's why jesus came into the world to read to redeem.
I i think it's important to to recognize that uh
that ultimately the truth of christianity rests on the life death and resurrection of jesus christ.
But you know i i would also add i think that christianity has produced some pretty
remarkable people who are very humble
people.
I think that uh
changing.
People yeah in fact in fact wouldn't you say that those failures of
husbands and wives and parents and every other category of human.
It is never because of christianity.
It's because of a disobedience uh to the principles
of christianity and the commands of christ.
Uh.
And you very often have lost people who might even be unconsciously obeying
christ when it comes to being a spouse.
And a parent and an employee and an employer and on and on.
Absolutely i mean uh nobody lives the sermon
on the
mouth and so um
i don't know
i i think you could point to many
people in in the history of the world that
doesn't mean though that you know sanctification is the law
that.
Wasn't the case with me i was instantaneously made perfect when i.
Uh just kidding folks.
I i knew your wife and i think she might uh have another word she
definitely would.
Have um uh.
Well if anybody wants more information about the ministry where ken samples
uh uses his gifts primarily it is reasons .org reasons .org
and uh is there any other contact information.
That you care to provide.
Well we uh make
it again great.
And uh
don't forget folks anytime we discuss.
A book on iron trip and zion radio.
You can also get it at cbbbs .com cumberland valley bible book service which is a sponsor of
this program.
And just make sure that you get the title author and publisher correct.
I want to thank you ken for doing another outstanding job with us today.
I want to thank everybody who listened.
I want you all to always remember for the rest of your lives that jesus christ is a far greater savior than you
are a sinner.