Marks of a Strong Christian | Theocast

Theocast

Subscribe

Download

Share

00

00:02

Hi, this is John. Let me ask you this one question. What is a strong Christian? Is it one who is disciplined?

00:09

Is it one who's read a thousand books on Christianity? How would you describe a strong Christian according to the

00:16

Bible? Well, that's what Justin and I are going to talk about today on Theocast, and we might have a little bit of a twist to the question, and we're going to look at it from Romans chapter 15.

00:28

We hope you enjoy. Stay tuned. If you'd like to help support Theocast, you can do that by leaving us a review on iTunes and subscribing on your favorite podcast app.

00:37

You can also follow us on Instagram, Twitter, and Facebook. Plus, we have a Facebook group if you'd like to join the conversation there.

00:44

Thanks for listening. Welcome to Theocast, encouraging weary pilgrims to rest in Christ.

01:01

This conversation is about the Christian life from a Reformed and pastoral perspective. Today, our hosts are going to be

01:11

Justin Perdue, pastor of Covenant Baptist Church in Asheville, North Carolina.

01:16

And I am John Moffitt. I'm the pastor of Grace Reformed Church in Spring Hill, Tennessee.

01:22

And we had contemplated starting this entire podcast with accents from the 1930s.

01:28

Shall we talk? Shall we talk? That's how we talk. We're going to talk. Can you imagine doing a whole episode like this?

01:35

Because we love people. You have to have a cigar. Justin, what are we giving away today, my friend?

01:43

Yeah. All right. We're giving away today a wonderful book. It's going to,

01:49

I think, be relatively clear as we start to have the conversation later how this relates. This book is entitled

01:54

Spurgeon's Sorrows by Zach Eswine. For those of you watching on the YouTube, I'm even holding it up so that you can see what it looks like.

02:01

This is a book about depression and anxiety and mental and emotional health stuff, but really what it is is about the care of souls and comfort for those who suffer.

02:09

And even for those who may not suffer with certain things and certain frailties, it's a good word to all of us as to how to care for other people.

02:17

So really useful book. Very encouraging read, I think.

02:22

And what Zach does in that book is writes a lot of his own words and then uses a number of excerpts from Charles Spurgeon's writings and sermons dealing with just the dark night of the soul and difficulty and struggle and pain.

02:35

So, yeah. Anyway, that's the book we're giving away today. It would be useful, I suppose, for us to determine who we're going to give it to.

02:42

And we've already done that via the Wheel of Names, our handy -dandy Wheel of Names. And the

02:47

Wheel of Names has determined under the sovereignty of God that our sister Jennifer Luce is going to receive a free copy of Spurgeon's Sorrows by Zach Eswine.

02:55

So, Jennifer, if you are listening and you don't get a message from us, then just shoot us one and we will happily get this book to you.

03:03

We hope that you are encouraged by it and are encouraged even in loving other people around you as you read this book.

03:10

And if you're thinking, man, I'd love to get a free copy of that book and my name is not Jennifer Luce, well, good news for you.

03:16

If you are listening to this podcast, today is a Wednesday as this is released. You can go to any of our social media accounts,

03:22

Facebook, Instagram, or Twitter, and there will be instructions there on how you can enter into the whatever, the fray, the frenzy, the excitement of potentially winning a free copy of this book as well.

03:34

We'll be giving that away via social media, and the winner will be announced tomorrow, which is Thursday.

03:40

And I think we'll probably have a link to the book in the show notes, John. So, you can go. And if you use that link, we get kickback from Amazon.

03:50

Amazon's big fans of The O 'Ghost. They love us. Yep. Being alive. Who knew? Theocast and Big Tech, a match made in heaven.

04:00

I'll tell you what. Well, the book is very much directly connected to what we're talking about today in that what are the marks of a strong Christian?

04:10

And often things that can cripple us and drag us down are things like depression and, you know, kind of the dark night of the soul.

04:22

But this conversation is birthed out of a conversation we had as a men's Bible study and a sermon that I preached recently, which we'll put the sermon in the notes as well.

04:34

But Justin, the conversation we want to have today are the marks of a strong Christian. And those marks, if we were to do a survey, which we probably would have been fun to do that and see what people would have come up with.

04:45

We did it in our men's Bible study, and I said, all right, guys, what has been handed to you as this is what is a strong Christian?

04:52

I'll throw a couple out, Justin. I'll let you throw a couple out. Ones that we've heard that, you know, normally when we think of someone who is strong, this is someone who has for, you know, 20 years has been faithfully on their knees for 30 minutes in the morning and an hour in the word and really just hasn't missed, you know, unless they've been sick.

05:09

They just that the mark of a dedicated, faithful, disciplined Christian, that that right there is a strong, strong Christian.

05:19

Sure. Yeah, I think for me, whenever I've heard people talk about being a strong Christian, the first word that pops into my mind, kind of like what you were just describing, is discipline.

05:29

So it's a person who is disciplined in their life. And that may be with respect to prayer or Bible reading, but it could be any number of things.

05:36

And, you know, it's a regimented, ordered kind of life. And that is strong.

05:42

Or I think a lot of times we think of Christians as being strong when they don't struggle with particular kinds of sins.

05:48

Maybe the more taboo, public, obvious kinds of sins. They don't deal with those in the same way that others do.

05:57

And so, therefore, they're strong. One of the guys described it as there's no, there are not extremes.

06:03

You don't see an extreme high. You don't see an extreme low. They're just kind of steady. Sure. That's the, you know, the guy with the gray hair just kind of always is.

06:13

He's always there. He's always faithful. And that's the strong Christian.

06:20

Which, you know, some of these things are true. Some of these things are good. To be really clear, we're not saying that discipline and steadiness and not struggling with certain kinds of obvious sins.

06:32

I mean, all of those things are good. Yeah, of course. But I'm just going to say this, John, that if you were to take a survey, which is kind of what we're sort of alluding to right now, of tell me, if I'm going to give you, you know, 10 slots, you list the 10 things that should characterize a

06:51

Christian or even the five things. Give me the top five things that should characterize a Christian. I am relatively confident that most of us would not answer that and would not fill out that survey the way the apostles would have.

07:07

Yeah, because as we're getting to the number one thing that should mark us, it's pretty obvious in the

07:14

New Testament. Yeah. And it's not what we would put first. No, no, it is not.

07:21

So we're going to look at several passages, but we're going to look at Romans chapter 15 kind of as our starting point.

07:27

And the goal of this morning is, you know,

07:32

Justin and I's desire is that everyone would be a strong Christian, that they would find their firm foundation and effectiveness.

07:40

As we have mentioned in the past, you know, 2 Peter 1 talks about an effective Christian, and we would agree that Christians should be effective, but effective in what?

07:49

Like, what should they be effective in? And when we think about strength, we think about the characteristics of strength.

07:57

We need to allow Scripture to characterize those. And I think often we have allowed businessmen, leadership skills, and I would even say self -made isolation tactics to determine what

08:13

Christians are. Last comment before you take us to Romans. I think maybe for the listener, this is helpful.

08:20

Like, when you hear us use the language of a strong Christian, you could also insert the word mature. So we're talking about what makes a strong Christian, what characterizes a strong or mature

08:31

Christian according to the New Testament is the conversation for today.

08:39

So out of the gates, Paul kind of uses a different way of describing it, but he's saying, those of you who are strong, this is what you should be doing.

08:52

In other words, you should have the capacity to do this or the ability to do this.

08:57

So let me just read to you the first verse of Romans chapter 15, 1. He says, we who are strong have an obligation to bear with the failings of the weak and not to please ourselves.

09:10

Let each of us please his neighbor for his good to build him up. And then he uses kind of our motivation and our, you know,

09:20

I would say the highest prize or not even prize, but example. For Christ did not please himself, but as it is written, the reproaches of those who reproached you fell on me.

09:31

So we'll just start there before I read verse four. Immediately, Paul is assuming strength with something that seems very contrary to modern day explanations of strength.

09:43

He's saying strength is tied to the capacity and ability to care for not yourself and your own sins, but to the ability to care for the sins and the failing and the stretches of others.

09:58

Yeah, man. That verse one is just pretty epic.

10:04

If you are strong, you know, then you have an obligation to bear with the failings of the weak.

10:12

Like your strength. Your strength is actually meant to be used and poured out for the good of the weak, right in your midst.

10:24

I mean, it's a man. It's gripping. All right, so here's another. Let me finish real quick. I'm sorry. I've got like a frog in my throat.

10:32

So I handed it off to you to get it out. Take a drink of water. Hey, brother, I've got I'm glad I could help you and you're failing and your weakness right now.

10:38

You are such a strong Christian. It's beautiful. Just trying to bear your burdens, bro. All right. Verse four.

10:46

By the way, this is becoming one of my favorite verses more and more as I read it for whatever was written in former days was written for our instructions that through endurance and through encouragement of the scriptures, we might have hope.

11:02

Many may the God of endurance and encouragement grant you to live in such harmony with one another in accord with Christ, Jesus, that together you may with one voice glorify the

11:15

God and father of the Lord, Jesus and Savior, Jesus Christ. So what I love about it, he says, not only must you deal with the failings and the weakness, but here's your motivation.

11:25

And I love this. He says, here's your encouragement and endurance. And it comes from looking at the hope of Christ in the

11:34

Old Testament because of course, Paul is writing the New Testament at the moment. It was one of the writers. So he's always pointing us to Christ as one example and two as hope.

11:48

Right. So we gain our encouragement and our endurance by looking at Christ, not our stability, not our long track record, not our discipline.

11:58

Right. So some people say, well, man, I've been doing this for 20 years and they gain stability over the discipline or the longevity of whatever it is that they have accomplished.

12:08

And Paul's like, no, your endurance and your encouragement come from what you're not doing. It's coming from what's been done.

12:15

No, I love it. Consider Christ, right? He is the epitome of the one who is strong, giving himself away for the sake of the weak.

12:27

Consider him, seek to imitate him, strive to be like him, but he doesn't stop there.

12:32

He gives us the ground underneath it all and the thing that's actually going to drive, sustain, and propel us in that seeking to imitate

12:40

Christ. And it's remember, recall, know, trust in the hope that you have in Christ because this is what

12:48

God has been revealing from the beginning. Yeah, it's wonderful. All right, so another passage that is great in this conversation, with respect to this conversation we're having today.

12:57

Galatians 6, just the first couple of verses even of that chapter. I'm going to go ahead and read the verses and then we'll maybe riff on these, comment on these a little bit.

13:07

Paul writes, Brothers, if anyone is caught in any transgression, you who are spiritual should restore him in a spirit of gentleness.

13:16

Keep watch on yourself, lest you too be tempted. Bear one another's burdens and so fulfill the law of Christ.

13:25

So another mark of a strong Christian, Paul right here, if those of you who are spiritual, if anybody is caught in sin, if anybody is mired in sin and transgression, you who are spiritual, again, reader, understand, you who are mature, you who are strong, should restore that person in a spirit of gentleness and keep watch on yourself, lest you too be tempted, lest you too fall.

13:54

So marks of a strong Christian from Galatians 6 are gentleness toward people who are caught in sin and humility with respect to your own frame.

14:06

Realize that were it not for the grace of God, there go you. And so what we ought to be doing, those of us who are mature, those of us who are strong by God's grace, we ought to be seeking to restore those who have fallen and to restore those who are struggling, who are trapped and caught in sin.

14:25

We ought not be proud. We ought not be haughty. We ought not be condescending.

14:31

We ought not be harsh. We ought not bludgeon people and just drop hammers and bombs all the time.

14:39

We should gently seek the restoration of the weak. And then verse 2, bear one another's burdens and so fulfill the law of Christ.

14:47

We ought to seek to bear the burdens of our brothers and sisters. If the Lord has given you strength, if the

14:53

Lord has given you some level of maturity, then use it to bear the burdens of your brothers and sisters in the church.

14:59

That's right. It's so powerful to think about the difference between how we see a strong Christian and how the

15:08

New Testament describes a strong Christian. If someone who is underneath the weight of their sin, who is so immature, that they are so introspective, looking at themselves all the time, only worried about themselves,

15:21

Paul says the spiritual people, the strong people are the ones who have the ability to look and carry other people.

15:31

It's not isolationism. It's the exact opposite. Go ahead.

15:39

It's charity, it's humility, it's compassion. You're going to get to that in a minute in Ephesians 4.

15:45

I will, but even from Galatians 6, that's obvious. It is. One other passage from Paul, just a quick couple of verses, 1

15:54

Thessalonians 5. He again uses the gospel as our motivation.

16:02

For God has not destined us for wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ, who died for us, so that whether we are awake or asleep, we might live with him.

16:12

Therefore, encourage one another and build one another up just as you were doing.

16:19

Then later on, he continues this admonishment. He says in verse 14,

16:24

We urge you, brothers, to admonish the idle, encourage the faint -hearted, help the weak, be patient with them all.

16:30

Can you follow the transition here? He's going to do this again, and you're going to show us here in Ephesians.

16:39

The glory of Christ, we're not destined for wrath, live in that hope. Then he says, take the motivation that you get from that hope and admonish each other, encourage each other, and then

16:51

I love this, be patient with all. The one thing

16:56

I am trying to teach my congregation is the power of patience. I think

17:01

I say it in every marital counseling issue that we're dealing with. People who have their families trapped in some weird religion or weird church organization, or the unbeliever that got an unbelieving spouse.

17:15

Listen, the thing that the gospel can provide and should provide is patience, because we are waiting

17:22

Christ's return, and we're waiting for God to do His work here on earth. A real strong Christian will look at the gospel.

17:31

I'm sorry, I'll just throw this in real quick, then I'll throw it over to you. But even 2 Peter 3, he describes this, the capacity for patience and godliness and long -suffering are the acts of the fruits of the

17:43

Spirit that we're to add to our faith. Then it says, if these are missing or lacking, you have forgotten that you've been cleansed from your former sins.

17:52

So a strong grasp of the gospel leads to strong capacities in meekness, gentleness, and patience.

18:00

When you say that, I can't help but think about 1 Timothy 1, 15 -16, where Paul talks about how patient Jesus has been with him.

18:13

Then his word to the saints is, consider how patient He will be with you as well.

18:19

I agree, brother. The gospel should help us all be patient with one another.

18:26

Because consider how patient the Lord has been with us. Now we're going to be patient with each other, and we're going to play the long game, and we're going to be long -suffering when it comes to our dealings with others.

18:37

Amen. I'm just going to throw one more verse in there because I think it's funny as you go over to Ephesians. It's Romans 14 -1.

18:43

Paul says, As for the one who is weak in faith, welcome him, but do not quarrel over opinions. This is why you will not see us in the

18:49

Facebook group often jump into dumb stuff. It's like, you know what?

18:55

The longer they listen and the stronger their faith will get, these quarrelsome things will go away.

19:03

True. Ephesians 4 -1 and following.

19:09

The gauntlet. Many will know that the first three chapters of Ephesians are all about the grace of God and the mystery that's been hidden for ages in God.

19:20

That is the plan of redemption that Jesus has accomplished. It's just absolute soaring glorious stuff of what

19:29

God has done for us, what Christ has accomplished for us, and the security that we have in Jesus. The inheritance that we are awaiting and the fact that we've been promised this wonderful kingdom that the

19:41

Lord is just delighted to give us. That's the first three chapters of Ephesians. Then Paul transitions in the last three chapters as it's divided in our modern translations to exhort and encourage the church.

19:52

In light of all that, here's how we live together. How does he start? I remember when I preached through Ephesians, John, and I got to this section,

19:59

I set up the first sermon in Ephesians 4 with this question, and I think it's relevant for now. If you were to write a letter to a church about how they're to live together, in light of everything that you've ever read, everything that you've ever heard, everything that you've ever been taught, how would you start that letter?

20:20

How would you begin it? Here's how you're to live with each other. Let that sit in your mind, and then consider how

20:26

Paul begins. I therefore, a prisoner for the Lord, urge you to walk in a manner worthy of the calling to which you've been called.

20:34

Walk in a way that is commensurate with the gospel. He goes on to describe it. With all humility and gentleness, with patience, bearing with one another in love, eager to maintain the unity of the

20:47

Spirit and the bond of peace. What does Paul say to a church? How do you live together? What's the most important stuff that would mean that we're walking in a way that's commensurate with the gospel?

20:58

We're walking in a way that makes sense in light of what Jesus has done for us. Humility, gentleness, patience, bearing with one another in love, pursuit of unity.

21:10

There we have it. Those things should mark mature, strong Christians.

21:16

If we're talking in those terms, it's like, well, my goodness, if you're going to be one of those, then these things, humility and gentleness toward your brothers and sisters, patience with your brothers and sisters, bearing with one another in love, which is just another way to say, be long -suffering, be patient, love each other, even when it's hard because people are going to fail and people are going to be stupid, and all those kinds of things, and pursue unity.

21:39

Don't be dividing over everything. Don't bicker. Don't bite and devour each other, but pursue unity.

21:47

That's what, John, the strong and mature among us need to be about doing. That's right. He goes on to explain that in the rest of the chapter, which we have probably mentioned on every episode ever in the history of Theocast because I've been in love with Ephesians for my entire ministry.

22:04

But in Ephesians 4, he goes on to describe that maturity and being built up into Christ is not an individual effort, but it's a corporate effort.

22:13

So not only is a strong Christian one who cares for the needs of others, but the way in which one becomes a strong Christian to do that is by others.

22:25

It's through the corporate ministry of the church, which is going to include pastors and teachers that the

22:32

Lord has given to teach sound doctrine, which gives us stability and keeps us from being knocked around.

22:37

It is through every member of the body playing his or her part so that we together, when the body is functioning properly, as the text says, we build ourselves up in love.

22:51

That's right. We wrote this little book to provide a simple answer from a

23:10

Reformed confessional perspective. You can get your free copy at theocast .org.

23:18

Now, this is probably mind bending for many people who are listening, and it's probably very complicated because,

23:26

Justin, one of the things that you and I are facing is the longer we describe

23:37

Biblical Christianity, which is not me and Jesus, but it's

23:42

Jesus and his body as Biblical Christianity, people are struggling because the church has just failed.

23:49

Let's just be frank here. The church has failed. I was on the phone with a pastor yesterday.

23:54

Everybody in California is moving to Tennessee for whatever reason. I am not kidding.

24:00

It is a weird sensation. You cannot rent a house or buy a house because there are none available because all the

24:06

Californians took them up. I'm glad they're here because they're all in my church. We had nine families from California visited one day at our church.

24:18

Nine. I was like, wow. Anyways, the struggle has been people hear what we're saying, and they want to experience that, but the churches that they're in, they're just not experiencing what we're describing.

24:38

Not even on a simple level. The emphasis of the church is not on the corporate gathering or the corporate caring for each other.

24:45

The emphasis is apietistic, individualistic, go home and try harder. I get how that's a struggle when you hear what we're saying and you want to go apply it.

24:54

In many ways, it's really hard to do that because the context that you're finding yourself in, you can't.

25:03

We understand that struggle, but there comes a moment where if you believe this strong enough, if you're convicted by this, something's got to change.

25:14

Something has to change. You either try and change the context that you're in, or you change the context, meaning you've got to go to a different one.

25:24

Yeah, totally. I think that one of the ways that the church has failed, and I think this has been evident in the things that we've been saying today, is that the church has given us the impression at least, there's at least an implicit message of this, if not an explicit one often, that really what the

25:48

Christian life is about is our own individual strength and growth. Yeah.

25:54

That, I would say, is a very American perspective.

26:00

It's a very modern, obsessed -with -self kind of perspective that what really matters is my own growth and my own arrival.

26:11

We have absolutely lost the biblical emphasis of, like you said a minute ago, this is not about me and Jesus.

26:19

This is about us and Jesus. Bro, I was having a conversation with a brother last night who

26:28

I love dearly in our church, and he's going through some hard times. This has just popped into my brain, and I feel like it's applicable here and encouraging.

26:38

He was talking about any number of things. We were talking about any number of things sitting on the tailgate of my truck. He, at one point, is lamenting this.

26:48

He says, I feel like right now my faith would not exist if it were not propped up by other people around me.

27:02

He was saying that as though that was a really bad thing. And you said amen.

27:07

I said, basically, amen, brother. I said, do you hear what you're saying? Do you hear yourself talk?

27:15

Because he and I have had some conversations recently about why we need the church. I said, why do we need the church?

27:23

I didn't say amen when he said that. I said, brother, it's almost like that's how the

27:29

Lord set it up. It's almost like God meant for it to be that way. There are going to be times in all of our lives where we think, man, if it were not for the brothers and sisters around me, if it were not for the brothers and sisters around me, more pointedly, who are carrying me and I am propped up on them,

27:47

I don't know that I would even have faith right now. That's how the church is designed to function.

27:56

We need each other far more than we realize. That's not to say that we don't need

28:02

Christ and the Holy Spirit. Of course we do, but Christ and His Spirit minister to us through the church.

28:11

We will know Jesus most tangibly in this world through the church and through our brothers and sisters in the local church that we're a part of.

28:22

We just don't think in those terms. We often tend to think that there's something wrong with me if I need other people so desperately.

28:31

It's like, no, you actually are starting to understand it. We are all clinging to each other as we all cling to Jesus.

28:38

Let me just read to you the exact words from Hebrews. But exhort one another every day as long as it is called today that none of you be hardened by the deceitfulness of sin for we have come to share in Christ.

28:52

Share, share in Christ. If indeed we hold our original confession firm to the end.

28:59

He's saying we encourage each other to share in Christ and we hold on to that to the very end because that's what's going to save us.

29:09

The concept, so one, a strong Christian is one who has the concerns for others, but also a strong Christian, as Justin just said, is also one who knows his strength does not come by his individualism, but his strength comes in numbers, right?

29:28

It's the gathered body that finds our strength as we share in Christ.

29:33

Amen. And obviously it comes from God through the means of the saints.

29:39

And that's why we'll say things that sound flat out insane to people. For example, I believe this with all my heart.

29:47

I know you do too, John, that assurance of salvation is a community project. That's crazy.

29:53

And that sounds bananas to people. I'll even say, maybe this is even more scandalous to say, sanctification is a community project.

30:06

Growth in the faith. You're stepping in trouble now, brother. It does not happen primarily.

30:12

I'm not saying that the Lord doesn't do anything in us when we're alone or in our private time.

30:18

Don't hear me say that. But I am absolutely confident on the basis of the New Testament that the primary way that we are grown, sustained, and assured is in the corporate context of the church.

30:30

As we all, like you just read from Hebrews, as we encourage and exhort and admonish one another, and we all cling to our confession and we all cling to our hope that we have been given in the

30:44

Lord Jesus Christ, and we point one another to him. Amen. Now, it is a scary concept to think that, wait a minute,

30:52

I have to trust in something outside of myself in order to accomplish the thing that God has given me, and we don't want to hear that.

31:04

And I get it. I love my church, and Justin loves his church. I told Justin if I ever get out of ministry,

31:09

I'm moving to Asheville to be a part of his church because our churches are so full of problems and all kinds of messes, but the one thing we get right is we get the gospel right, and we are starting to understand community and sharing in Christ.

31:25

Our church is starting to see this. It takes time, brother. I'm over five years in, you're over three years in.

31:33

This doesn't happen overnight. You can't microwave this. No, because we have to change people's perspectives of churches that they've come from.

31:40

We do have new converts in our context, but we're also in the Bible Belt, so we're also dealing with a lot of people who grew up in Christianity.

31:48

We have to reprogram people to say, don't trust yourself. You are going to be deceived by sin, and it will entangle you.

32:00

I think it's so interesting when someone comes into, and Justin, you and I have these conversations almost weekly, when someone comes into counseling with us, and we start unraveling the problem.

32:12

They confess their sin. We start talking about how it was caused, and the solution we hand them are not isolated steps.

32:19

The end goal is to allow the church to now carry this with you to the end.

32:28

It terrifies people to think, wait a minute, other people are going to know about this. It's like, well, how else do you think you're going to get help?

32:33

I don't have the ability to carry this by myself as the pastor. As a matter of fact,

32:39

Paul doesn't say in Galatians 6, pastors carry the burdens of the church. He says, you who are strong, not pastors.

32:46

Paul is writing to the congregation saying the congregation is to do that. And then tells them, bear one another's burdens.

32:54

It's very clear that that's an encouragement and an exhortation to everybody. Not only that, to go back to Ephesians 4, he says the pastors and teachers are designed to equip the church for the work of ministry.

33:07

That's right. Equip the saints for the work of ministry. That's right. So that the body will grow and mature and build itself up in love.

33:15

Part of the reformation that has to take place is not only theology, which Justin and I are heralding, rest in Christ, but the transformation and reformation that must happen is we've got to get back to the biblical perspective of the church so that people can find rest again.

33:33

And the gospel that we herald and the doctrine that we teach and confess in our respective churches drives that kind of culture in the church.

33:42

That's right. There's a massive drive for social justice on all levels right now in almost every brand of Christianity that is out there.

33:49

I mean, everybody's throwing out the virtue signaling for racism and for everything that's going on.

33:57

And the church now is focusing outward, but it's leaving all of its members behind and they're being exhausted by all of this.

34:08

I think it's easier to be involved in social justice movements because it's at a distance.

34:16

You can see immediate, like, all right, we're moving towards a change. We're going to see a change.

34:21

And you're saying it's easier to be involved in movements of social justice than it is to just love people in the church.

34:27

Right, because you know what? Some people's weaknesses and failures are not going to be, there is no improvement.

34:35

Yeah, there's not a fix. It's like this is a limp that they're going to walk with for the rest of their lives and they need to be loved.

34:42

Right, like the burden of people in my church is their spouse left them or their child died or they were abused.

34:49

That's a burden that cannot be fixed, that can only be carried. And those are the things that aren't, they don't sell.

34:59

You don't do conferences on. Well, it's not exciting. Yeah, I think, man, our next conference should be on, you know, how do you carry the burdens of other people?

35:08

And by our next conference, you mean our first one. And we may get into this more in the

35:14

SR podcast. Right. But things like conferences and short -term mission trips and stuff like that, it's easy to get excited about those things.

35:24

And it's easy to get people fired up and geeked up about them because it's kind of like they're just sparkle and fade type things.

35:31

And the difficulty really and the real marrow of the Christian life is what we are talking about today.

35:39

It's locking arms with other fallen human beings and loving one another as we oftentimes limp our way by the

35:49

Holy Spirit's power toward the celestial city. And we're just trying to love each other in such a way that we help one another trust

35:56

Christ and die with dignity. And that's just not, it's just not a sexy message. No, Christianity really is moving.

36:01

For many people. No, Christianity really is moving from one Super Bowl to the next. And we're just looking for that one, that one high point.

36:09

You're saying American Christianity is that. I agree with you completely. And even the movement thing that you're talking about,

36:14

John, I mean, there's a reason why every 18 to 24 months, there's a new one. We have to find motivation for what we're doing.

36:20

If you read the blogosphere, the Christian blogosphere, it's like, and you just go back over the last 15 years,

36:26

I promise you that you'll find five to eight big issues. I mean, every four years you've got politics, right?

36:32

I mean, the election cycle. But then there's been a number of other things sprinkled in from various issues of social justice, whether that's having to do with male and female stuff or race stuff, or there was a big emphasis on sex trafficking years ago, which again, all of these things are like, yeah, we should pursue justice.

36:52

Abortion, adoption. Amen. Yeah, abortion, adoption, things like this. But there's always got to be a new thing, it seems.

36:59

That people can give attention to. I think modern Christianity is, the reason why there's always a new thing, Justin, is that modern Christianity is just one epic failure after the next because we aren't paying attention to scripture.

37:08

There has been no success. You can't even call numbers success because then Joel Olson is the most successful, strong Christian on the planet because he's got one of the biggest churches in the world.

37:19

Numbers is not success. And when Paul describes a successful Christian or a church, he is not describing these things that are changing culture or they're overcoming.

37:30

Look, we are always going to have social issues. We're always going to have problems.

37:36

But when he describes a successful, strong Christian, he describes something that is just not talked about today.

37:42

I'm just going to speak to a few minutes before we jump into this SR podcast. And Justin, I know you're going to clobber this.

37:48

And I know you have a couple more things to say. But I want to speak to the pastor out there and the

37:54

Christian worker who's been faithfully serving in their ministries year in and year out.

37:59

Let me just talk to you for a moment. And I did this this week for two different pastors. Listen, success has nothing to do with the books you write, the podcasts you make, and the number of people in your church.

38:11

That is not what success is. A successful pastor or a successful Christian is one who gets down and carries and cares for and is patiently long -suffering with people day in and day out, no matter how many peoples those are.

38:27

If it's one, two, or 5 ,000, it does not matter. But you can go to bed at night and say, you know what, I was an effective, according to 2

38:36

Peter 1, I was an effective Christian today because I cared for people. I cared for them.

38:42

And that's what my job is to do. My job is to care for people.

38:48

And I can go to bed knowing, yep, I'm a successful Christian. I'm a good Christian. Not because of the sins

38:54

I conquered. I'm not saying you can live in sin. Not because of all of the things spiritually I did. No.

39:00

We cared for the failings and the weak and those who are suffering, and we carried burdens.

39:05

And I can die as a man going, you know what, I did what God asked me to do, care for the people around me in my church.

39:11

That's what I've been called to do. I'm a successful pastor. And God has given me Christ's very own righteousness and has dealt with my sins so that I am set free to do that work without fear of condemnation and judgment, right?

39:24

A couple of thoughts for me to close, and these are related, and I hope, I mean, I realize it's not exactly related to what you just said, but I hope this makes sense.

39:32

So two big ones. Number one, back to that whole idea of a survey, if you were going to fill one out, what should mark a

39:40

Christian? If we do not, in that number one slot, kind of the one word that sums up this whole conversation, if we don't put love for the brethren, then we are flat wrong.

39:51

That's right. When it comes to what the Bible reveals. I mean, Jesus himself in John 13, how is it that we'll be known?

39:58

How's the world going to know that we're Christ's? It's by the way we love each other. And then

40:03

John picks that up in his first epistle in chapter two, verses seven and following, where his exhortation is guys love each other.

40:11

This is the commandment, right? And the saints, this is what the redeemed do. So we need to talk in those terms.

40:18

The second thing is related. If we're going to really love one another and get down, like you even said, get down low and bear each other's burdens, it requires a lot of things that we've been talking about today, humility, patience, gentleness, and the like.

40:33

If that's going to characterize us in the church, we've got to get rid of self -righteousness because self -righteousness and humility, gentleness, patience, compassion, they don't go together.

40:45

They're like oil and water. I said this in a conversation this week, and this is kind of where I'm going to conclude my thoughts on this.

40:53

People think in the church today that the epidemic that's plaguing us is nominalism, that the problem is that there are too many false converts or there are too many

41:03

Christians in name only. That's the issue. I would say I think that's a pretty myopic and short -sighted perspective.

41:12

The problem that has always existed in the church from the jump, read the New Testament, is self -righteousness.

41:19

People trusting in their own works, trusting in their own righteousness, going back to the law, whatever.

41:25

It manifests itself in a number of ways, but that's the issue. I said this to a guy this week. I said my main objective in terms of what

41:33

I want to see in all of our lives, I want to make it my mission to destroy self -righteousness at CBC.

41:42

I want us to trust in Christ's righteousness alone and despair of our own. If that actually starts to happen for us, guess what's going to be produced?

41:52

This stuff, love and compassion and patience and gentleness and charity toward the weak and toward the struggler rather than this kind of posture that we all contend to have where we look at the weak and the struggler and we're kind of like, yeah, you should be better by now.

42:07

You shouldn't be doing that. Anyway, just a thought, dude. Well, we're going to move over.

42:14

We're going to end this podcast and we're going to move over to our next one, which is called Semper Reformanda. This is a new ministry that we started for the purposes of those who want to join in what we're doing.

42:24

You want to be a part of the Reformation. You want to see change happen. If that's you, we'd encourage you to join us.

42:30

It's two parts. We do a podcast and then we also have a ministry where you can gather with other listeners and talk about the podcast each week.

42:42

Shoot, bro, we got a daggum app for it. We have an app for it. So you can join. And then once you join, you can download our private podcast feed and our private app and then join local groups.

42:51

We already have 20 groups we've started around the country and we're working on doing more and we have several online groups. If you're while you're waiting for your lucky group, you can join in and then just we have a great time discussing the podcast.

43:02

And today, Justin and I are going to head over there and we are going to talk about parachurch failures as it relates to the marks of a strong Christian and parachurch failures.