Adult Sunday School - The Roman Catholic Controversy Part 18

Purgatory and the Problem of Proof Texts

Father, we come before you, Lord, eager for the teaching of your word. Lord, we thank you that you've given us clarity, and Father, that your spirit leads us in all truth. And so, Father, we entrust this time to you, asking that you grant us wisdom and guidance, and that your name will be magnified and glorified in these things and more, in Jesus' name, amen.

All right, so let's continue our discussion on purgatory. We're kind of in page, about page 185-ish. Yeah, 185. In our book. And just a question for you guys. What are some things that stood out to you as you examined this doctrine of purgatory?

Anything that stood out to you? I know last year, not last year, last week, we got to spend some time talking about purgatory as well. So anything that stands out to you? Any immediate thoughts or questions that arise?

Not fully cleansed, and they kept talking about, you know, sins must be expiated. And in the New Testament, you don't find anything about that, about punishment for sins, or anything that, you know, keeps people at all.

And the verses they used, like, I mean, that one about, you know, this life, talking about the, you know, this life is a life after, oh, therefore, they talk about the sins being taken care of in the month.

That's completely not even talking about that.

That's right. No, it's very true. It is a complex, as I look at the proof texts of purgatory, it's just, it's confounding. It is, it's really interesting. It's similar, akin to, again, what Jehovah's Witnesses, Mormons do, where they take a scripture that's maybe a little bit vague, and man, they really take liberty of it, and they just stretch it.

Again, my favorite example is, for Jehovah's Witnesses, is when Paul talks about paradise in 2 Corinthians chapter 12. The Jehovah's Witnesses interpret that paradise to be Paul foreseeing the future harmony of God's organization, and, you know, based upon, you know, the Watchtower, and based out of Brooklyn, New York.

And so, like, man, like, really? I mean, it doesn't take a biblical scholar to, like, look at the scripture and hear that interpretation and be like, mm, I don't know about that one. But they say it so, like, convincingly, because I remember being a Jehovah's Witness and, like, studying that text, and everyone's like, oh, yeah, that's what it means.

It's like, how did we get there? It's like bad math. I don't know how we got there. Similarly to the Mormons as well, though. The Mormons will take liberties of vague scriptures. For instance, 1 Corinthians 15 talks about baptism of the dead, and they take that, and they literally start baptizing dead people.

I think it was a review yesterday, Sebastian, right, where we were talking about that, and I think you thought they were, like, grave robbing and, like, actually taking dead bodies out and baptizing them.

But that's, yeah, that's just kind of the ludicrous stuff that, you know, comes out of the imagination of man when they misinterpret God's word. Really, the Bible is a book that is, gotta be careful of how I'm saying this, because opponents of God's word really can take God's word, and you've heard it said before, you know, you can make the Bible say whatever you want it to say.

Yes and no, because, again, it comes down to having a proper science of interpretation, right? So, just like in anything, when it comes to data, when it comes to actual science, when it comes to mathematics, when it comes to anything that has objective truth and reality to it, there has to be a way of approaching it in order to really draw out the proper meaning.

And the same thing is true of scripture. We have to have a proper exegesis, we have to have a proper hermeneutics in order to approach the scripture and draw out the original meaning and purpose of the text.

And so, again, purgatory is one of those things that, man, the Catholic Church is truly taking liberties and speaking in the gaps of silence and coming out with this major doctrine. Anything else stand out to you in the remainder of that chapter?

Yes, Dale.

When you die, you become angels, because they get their theology from TV. All my theology of purgatory is from TV. So, it's hard to jettison that and try to understand exactly what they're saying and doing.

But the idea that all your sins up to that point are forgiven when you believe, but all the sins after that point, you have to go to purgatory, and then in my mind, purgatory's this awful place.

That just doesn't make sense. It's like a Ben and Jerry episode, right? You know, purgatory is a fascinating concept in itself. And again, last week we talked about one of the areas in which it arises from is a misunderstanding of the biblical intermediary state.

And so, there's Hades, Sheol in the Bible, and the confusion around purgatory arises out of a bad theology stemming out of a misunderstanding of those places, right? The intermediate state? Oh, okay, that's fine.

Yeah, the intermediate state, Sheol, Hades. Dad said Sheol, that's what I said. Yeah, Sheol's what we see in the Old Testament. It's a term for the place of the dead. It's kind of a huge bucket term, so it can mean different things varying on the context of the verse.

The same thing with Hades in the Greek New Testament. It's the equivalent to the Hebrew Sheol. And both Old Testament folks and New Testament folks have kind of, again, these are words that don't come out of a vacuum.

They have a contextual meaning. And so, Hades is very famous in Greek mythology, right? And Hades was the place of the dead. It's where people went. And it was typically associated with a place of torment.

Now, as the Greeks developed their own theology and philosophy surrounding their mythologies, they began to develop what's called a heavenly Hades. And so, they had this dual compartment. That's actually where the Roman Catholic Church takes liberty in developing its concept of purgatory is this heavenly, ethereal Hades.

And that's where a lot of the Roman Catholic version of purgatory actually arises from is from a later Greek understanding of a heavenly Hades, which is really interesting. So, yeah. Yes, sir?

Yeah, so you're able to find yourself in purgatory because you haven't done proper penance. And that penance hasn't been done yet. And the response to you said, and so the concept of that, you'll get called a purgatory.

And then also connects to that the whole idea of indulgences and where there's this concept that there's a repository of extramarital. You know, that Jesus has a storehouse of Mary and all these things that you can also take part in yourself top of those who are in purgatory as well, you know, speed up their process.

But now I'm just like, yeah, that's why and stuff like that. And even today, the modern Roman Church is still doing indulgences, right? Yes.

Yeah, this doctrine hasn't ceased. It's still present. Yeah, we're gonna go more into the area of indulgences just in a few moments here in this chapter. But yeah, that's absolutely right. And it's of interest in terms of how purgatory develops and it develops in conjunction with indulgences, right?

And because again, you need a means by which these things can be rectified in the afterlife. Right? And so the development of purgatory and indulgences go hand in hand in Roman Catholicism. So absolutely right.

Yes. They think that they have the right to sell it. They're selling it for money. Yeah, that's because they needed to build St. Peter's Basilica.

Yeah. It costs money. You know, and we'll go deeper into this, but at this point in church history, you know, the Pope has not just ecclesiastical authority, but he has civil authority, right? So he can call for the collection of taxes.

And, you know, he's really essentially the continuation of the Roman emperor. And so the Pope has civil authority along with ecclesiastical authority. And that's still true today in the Vatican. The Vatican is a city state.

And so he has ecclesiastical and nation state power. So, yeah. So he is still that little horn spoken of Daniel. He truly is. And so, yeah, so to go deeper into this, again, we're in page about 185 and the tale of that and the treasury of merit and indulgences and really kind of page 186.

But I do want to, I want to read this quote from Dr. Philip Schaaf. He says, the traffic and ecclesiastical places of forgiveness of sins constitutes the very last scene of medieval, of the medieval church history.

On the eve of the Reformation, we have the spectacle of the Pope solemnly renewing the claim to have rule over both spheres, civil and ecclesiastical, and to hold in his hands the salvation of all mankind, yea, in actually supporting the extravagant luxuries of his worldly court with monies drawn from trade and sacred things.

So, you know, if you know anything about Roman Catholicism, you know that they meddle a lot in artifacts. So, you know, probably one of the more famous one that comes to mind is the Shroud of Turin. You guys heard of the Shroud of Turin, which is supposedly like a blanket that has the face of Jesus on it and the body of Jesus.

And it's been kept in a church in Italy in a town called Turin, which is why it's called the Shroud of Turin. And what they'll do is every couple of years, they'll put it out and people will line up and they'll wanna take pictures, they'll wanna touch it, they wanna, you know, basically pay indulgences to it.

And so this was very famous, especially by the time that Luther, obviously writes his thesis, you know, every church in the empire had some type of artifact, you know, linking it to St. Peter, you know, I think what was the smart aleck thing that Luther said that every church had, you know, either the nails of the cross or a bone of St. Peter.

And so, because that's what they were peddling in, you know, they were selling religion, they were selling access to God, they were selling access to these artifacts. And so this is a means by which they were, of course, drawing lots of revenue in terms of taxation and indulgences.

And he keeps on saying this quote here, how deep seated the pernicious principle had become was made manifest in the bull, which Leo issues, that's Pope Leo, November 9th, 1518, a full year after the kneeling of the theses on the church door at Wittenberg, that's Luther writing his 95 theses, in which all were threatened with excommunication who feel the preach and believe that the Pope had the right to grant indulgences.

Now Luther's, one of Luther's main gripes with the Popery had become the issuing of indulgences. Again, this is in the middle of the building of St. Peter's, St. Peter's Basilica, the empire is still trying to raise lots of revenue.

And so you would have, from the Vatican, you'd have these representatives that would go into each town throughout Europe, and they would sell, they'd have these proclamations that were sealed by the Pope's ring.

And he would say something to the effect, hey, we're selling these indulgences, we're raising this money, if you want to get your ancestors out of purgatory, here's what you've got to do. And this blatant selling of religion, this blatant selling of indulgences, really disgusted Martin Luther and other reformers, which led to the buildup of this fervor to kind of rebel against that.

But you see early on in the Reformation, this rebuke of indulgences, and much of his thesis that he nails to the door in the Church of Wittenberg has to deal with the indulgences that Roman Catholicism was peddling in.

And so again, you have this duality within the Pope, civil and ecclesiastical authority. And so because he has both, he can call taxes and he can call, go into these towns and demand essentially money.

You've got this huge conflict, this huge conflict that's kind of building up. And so what do the people do? Well, the people begin to look for an ulterior message, and that was exactly where the reformers come in and begin to preach the gospel free of charge.

And again, I think our church knows a thing or two about that, considering one of our pastors has written a whole book for free on the cost of ministry and what support should look like and selling access to gospel material and all those things.

And so I think there's still much room for reformation in that area. So indulgences, what is indulgences, though? What are indulgences? We've been talking about that for a little bit. What are indulgences?

I don't know what that word means. What does it mean to indulge? Kind of, right? If you want to indulge in something, it means there's an extravagance, but there's a price that comes with that extravagance, right?

There's always a price associated with something that's in which you're indulging in. And so they are selling, essentially, access. That's what it means. They're selling access. And when they're selling, the Roman Catholic Church would say, we're not selling indulgences.

And they would say that they never sold indulgences. Rome would say what they're doing is that they're opening the opportunity to have access to indulgences. So they don't like the term when you say that they've been selling indulgences.

They really don't like that, because they know it's a bad look, right? But it's essentially, it's really what they're doing. They're selling access. And what are they selling access to? Well, in this case, in line of purgatory, they're selling access for dead people to get out of there, right?

Now, again, why does the need for purgatory arise in Roman Catholic theology? It arises because of their view of sin. What are the three views of sin that they have? Venial, which is what? That's a good way of putting it.

That's right. So you have venial sins, and you have? Mortal sins, which are what? Like, murders are bad. These are damnable sins, okay? So you have venial sins. You have mortal sins. What's the other one?

What's that? That's funny. No, cardinal sins is technically a use, but it's not the, there's another term that you made me forget. We went over this last week, guys. Who didn't take their notes? Okay, yeah, so there's three views of sin in the Roman Catholic Church.

There's the venial sins, mortal sins, and there's also original sin, okay? So original sin is that which is imposed on you at birth. That's what has to be washed away through baptism, and then you have mortal sins, which again, these are severe degrees of sins, which can be damnable, and then there's venial sins, which are less severe sins that are typically the things that are dealt with in purgatory, right?

So in purgatory, you're not dealing with mortal sins. If you have mortal sins, you'd be in hell, but if you were forgiven of those mortal sins through rituals of the Roman Catholic Church, last rites, but you still have venial sins to deal with, purgatory is that place where you deal with it.

Now, what biblical evidence is there of purgatory? Let's be fair to the Catholics. What biblical evidence is there of purgatory? Yeah, exactly, that's the answer. There is, even at the most charitable way that we can be to them, there is no biblical backing for the concept of purgatory.

As we mentioned last week, the only way you can really get there is through a misunderstanding of the intermediate state, misunderstanding of Sheol, Hades, other places, but if we wanna be even more fair to Roman Catholicism, here are some scriptures I want you to consider, and one of them is gonna be in, obviously, in the Roman Catholic Bible.

They have a couple of books that we don't as Protestants, and in the second book of Maccabees, I'm gonna read it to you, chapter 12, here's probably the strongest proof text of purgatory according to Roman Catholicism, and if you blink, you'll miss it, so I'm gonna read it to you slowly.

It says in 2 Maccabees, chapter 12, verse 40 to 45, for had he not expected the fallen to rise again, it would have been superfluous and foolish to pray for the dead. Whereas, if he had in view the splendid recompense reserved for those who make a pious end, the thought was holy and devout.

Hence, he had this expiatory sacrifice offered for the dead so that they might be released from their sin. And so, here's the strongest text in the Roman Catholic canon of scripture for purgatory. Well, first and foremost, the word purgatory isn't used, okay, so it's not there.

Sheol isn't used, Hades isn't used. No term other than the dead is used, and it says that there are those who pray for the dead. Now, Pastor Conley, is it appropriate for Christians to pray for the dead?

No? Exactly. Exactly. It is not appropriate for Christians to pray for the dead, both in the Old Testament and the New Testament, make it clear that we are not to pray to the dead. Now, the Roman Catholic Church has an interesting concept in which they have in view what they call the church militant and the church, what's the other term that they have?

The church militant, the church, what is it? Victorious? Yeah, I think it's, yeah, and I guess that's like the heavenly, the church that's in heaven, the church militant being the church that's here. And that's on earth.

And they say, listen, well, the dead that are in Christ are alive. Therefore, when you're praying to a dead, you're not praying to a dead person, you're praying, it's like they're in a room with you. But again, that is a denial of the severity of death in itself, even for the believer, that it is still a separation from the body, even if it is to be present with the Lord.

It denies the severing of death and the reality of that in the human experience. But in 2 Maccabees, again, it says that there are those who pray for the dead and that there's an atonement that's made for the dead, that they might be delivered from their sin.

So first and foremost, 2 Maccabees should not be considered scripture. I'll give you two reasons why I'm not convinced about the Apocrypha. So any books of the Apocrypha, Tobit, 1st, 2nd Maccabees, all the other ones.

And the reason, honestly, it's a very simple reason. These books were written in what's called the intertestamental period, which is around the year 400 to 100 BC. And the intertestamental period has to deal with, for instance, the time period in which the world was becoming Hellenized.

Anyone know what that means in Greek? So this is the period of Hellenization, which is when the Greeks became a major power. Greeks, religion, language, philosophy begin to envelop the world. Obviously, during that time, the Greeks ultimately fall and Rome rises as a result of it.

And Rome adopts much of the Greeks' language, religion, culture, even though, do you know what the actual official language of the Romans was? It wasn't Greek, it was actually Latin. Even though Greek, because the Greeks had done such a good job of Hellenizing the world, it was still kind of the de facto language of the time.

But truly, Latin was the official language of the empire, which is why when Jesus is crucified, you have three languages over his head. You have Latin, Greek, and Hebrew. And so, but in this time period, you have a lot of just cracks that, just crazy people that are coming out of the woodworks.

This is a time which books of familiarity are written. For instance, the books of Enoch. You've heard of the books of Enoch. Book of Enoch was written during this intertestamental period, so it wasn't written by Enoch, it was written during this period of time.

You have a lot of very weird literature that arises out of this time, and the Apocryphas are among them. And what distinguishes them from being authentic Old Testament literature, I think it's actually really clearly seen in the text itself, none of the Apocrypha have the divine name.

None of the Apocrypha have the divine name. You might be asking yourself, well, why is that important? Because with only two exceptions, every Old Testament book has a divine name. Okay? Which shows the importance, the style of writing in the Old Testament.

And so, the fact that all of the Apocryphas, none of the Apocryphas have the divine name, tells me insight into, were these things inspired by Yahweh? Most likely not. Most likely not. There would have been no reason to exclude the name, other than the fact that culturally around this time is when the name began to fall out of usage.

Was there an intertestamental period between 400 BC to about first century was when the name started not to be used. And so, they were adopting that view, obviously not using the name. Now, New Testament writers also, as far as we know, don't use the name, but I think there's a very different reason for that than the reasons that we see for those who wrote the Apocrypha.

Any thoughts or questions on that? Yes. That does not have a divine name. So, there's only two books in the Old Testament that don't have the divine name. I think it's Esther and Ecclesiastes, and some would argue Song of Solomon.

But I would say the Song of Solomon actually does have the divine name. In chapter nine, verse 12, it talks about the very flame of Yah, or Yah being a shortened form of the name Jehovah. And so, most translations would put that as the flame of the Lord, and that's the Lord meaning Yahweh.

And so, the shortened form of the divine name is used in Song of Solomon. So, all right, any other questions on that? So, the Apocrypha really shouldn't be considered scripture, is what I'm saying. And there's more reasons why, but I think those are two pretty good reasons.

I wouldn't trust any literature that comes out of the intertestamental period, other than just purely good data. So, we can look at that, and we can get an idea of what these people were thinking, believing.

But obviously, it's not helpful to view them as scripture. And so, this is the best text that they've got. This is the best text that they've got. And even this one is ambiguous. Even this one isn't crystal clear.

Even this one has a lot of science by which the Roman Catholic Church can say, well, hey, we can use this, and we can stretch it like dough. You ever stretch dough before? Ever make pizza? I make a pretty good pizza.

And so, when you stretch a dough, and you start, you have this lump, and it's amazing how large you can make that lump. And that's exactly what these cults, and Roman Catholics in particular, do with the word of God.

They take the word, and they stretch it, and they pull it, and they really stretch the meaning of the text. And so, in terms of other scriptures that they use, again, and I'm actually reading this from a Roman Catholic apologist's website.

Some of the verses that they use, Psalm 66, verse 12, for instance, which says, Thou didst let men ride over our heads. We went through fire and through water, yet Thou has brought us forth to a spacious place.

Purgatory? Like, really? That's, okay, spacious place. Oh, that spacious place, you know, that could be this, that, you know. They really stretch the text. Isaiah 4 .4, it says, When the Lord shall have washed away the filth of the daughters of Zion, and cleansed the bloodstains of Jerusalem from its midst by a spirit of judgment, and by a spirit of burning.

Again, these are proof texts, according to Roman Catholicism, for purgatory. Did you see purgatory there? Not even slightly, to be honest with you. You know, the idea of spirit of judgment, and the spirit of burning, that's where they kind of get the idea that purgatory's a place of refining fire, right?

So it's not hell, but it's a place in which people can pay for their venial sins. They can be refined, so they become sanctified enough to go ultimately, eventually, to heaven. And that's the flaw of Rome here.

Again, it comes, like I said last week, every doctrinal issue that stems out of Rome stems out of a misunderstanding of justification, okay? Justification's truly at the heart of Rome's errors, because if one is truly justified by faith through faith in Jesus Christ, then, and if, as Romans chapter five says, therefore, since we've been justified by faith, we can have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, in which we now have this grace in which we stand.

So we stand in the grace of God through faith in Jesus Christ, or we have to pay for our sins by means of various processes, purgatory being that ultimate last stop of sanctification for those who have venial sins, yeah.

So, purgatory, and God is such a saint, or if you were an unbeliever, and that was such a mistake, purgatory entirely, right? You're eternally condemned.

That would be correct, right? Correct. Yeah, and like the book says here, there's a common misconception that the practice of indulgences by Roman Catholicism ended centuries ago, but that's not the case at all.

In fact, you know, he's gonna, in the book, in page 186, there's a quote here from basically the book called The Doctrine of Indulgences, and it's from the Vatican too, dated January 1st, 1967, and it teaches that there is a continuation of indulgences in various means.

So, yeah, this practice is not something that's just unique to the medieval church. This is something that continues even till this day, and if you ever go to Rome, if you ever go to the Vatican, you'll see that there's still lots of places in which, you know, it mimics the medieval church where you can literally pay for indulgences, so it's very interesting, yeah.

Is it only Rome that's?

Not, you can, no, there's no direct correlation between some of the practices of the Eastern Orthodox Church in regard to indulgences. I think they would reject indulgences as practiced by Rome. Now, it's a different question of, do they have a form of indulgences?

I would say yes, but they would claim these are not the same, and the consequences are not the same. So, for instance, you know, they don't believe in the Roman Catholic view of purgatory, and so the indulgences, so-called indulgences of the Eastern Orthodox Church, don't carry the same consequence, right?

But, you know, it really depends, because what would you consider an indulgence? I would say, you know, infant baptism is a form of indulgence, because it carries the same connotation. It is a means outside of grace, outside of justification, by which I can be justified, right?

And so that's what it really comes down to, is any other form of means to be justified, yeah. That's right, that's right, that's right. So, is it still really in place? Yeah, and they still do ask for money.

Like, if you go to, I've had a lot of friends, I haven't gone yet, and I do, it's on my bucket list to go to Italy and go to the Vatican, and just like in ancient times, you have, well, medieval times, you'll have people who'll sell indulgences, but they're not officially associated with Rome, with the Vatican, but they'll sell you holy relics, holy items, and they'll say, hey, if you buy this, this is gonna help you, this is gonna help your ancestor.

Even today, and again, this might not go straight into the coffers of Rome itself, but if you ever go to a bodega, like I grew up in the hood, we have bodegas everywhere. Every bodega has a full section of candles of saints, okay?

That is a form of indulgence. You're taking these candles with these specific saints, these specific prayers, you buy it, you pray these prayers, sometimes these little pendants of gold with St. Jude or St. Mary, these are all forms of indulgences.

Now, these are not necessarily officially licensed by Rome, but it is still very much within the practice of Roman Catholicism. It is so ingrained in Roman Catholicism that people are just accustomed to buying access to God, whether it be through these candles, these prayers, these rosaries, or these other artifacts.

So, any other thoughts or questions? Chapter 12, that apparition that she sees in that one line, and it says, and to submit to the torture of fire at the feet of Jesus Christ. It's like that is horrific to me, to think of that.

That's right. It's like they really distort everything. I can't imagine.

The Treasury of Merit and the Sale of Indulgences

So, let's let Rome define for us what they mean by purgatory in page 187, in this quote here, in the middle of purgatory that enters the discussion, these words. This is based upon the book, The Doctrine of Indulgences.

The doctrine of purgatory clearly demonstrates that even when the guilt of sin has been taken away, punishment for it or the consequence of it may remain or be expiated or cleansed. They often are. In fact, in purgatory, the souls of those who died in the charity of God and truly repentant, but who had not made satisfaction with adequate penance for their sins and omissions are cleansed after death with punishments designed to purge away their debt.

This is an affront to the sacrifice of Jesus Christ. This is a clear attack on the ransom sacrifice of the propitiation that comes through the shed blood of Christ. It is a denial of the blood of Jesus.

You cannot be more anti-Christ than this. Again, we gotta get into our minds. This is not another friendly religion that is our kin, that is our brothers. No, this is a false religion. This is a anti-Christ religion.

In attacking the very atonement of Christ, the very heart of the gospel. It doesn't get more serious than that, folks. This is a truly anti-Christ church, and especially because they claim to be Christ's authority, particularly in the Pope.

And so they believe, again, that purgatory is a place in which people who are repentant, but had not made satisfaction through penance, have to have their sins cleansed. The question that arises is, what of the blood of Jesus?

If someone repents, according to Peter 2, or in Acts 2, verse 38, repent, believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and be baptized. That is the formula, right? And it says, if you repent and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, you shall be what?

Saved. What, then, of the sacrifice of Jesus? If we look at this doctrine, if we take this seriously, and we believe this, it makes very little of Christ. It makes very little of the shed blood of Jesus.

And that is something that is truly abominable. It goes on to say this, in the continuation of this quote down here in the bottom of the same page, 187. On the contrary, the treasure of the church is the infinite value which can never be exhausted, which Christ's merits have before God.

The treasure includes, as well, the prayers and the good works of the blessed Virgin Mary. They are truly immense and unfathomable, and even pristine in their value before God. So let's look what they're doing.

What is that fountain that is truly inexhaustible? It's the blood of Christ. What are they now doing? They're replacing that fountain with another. They're saying it's not the blood of Jesus that is truly inexhaustible.

It's not the blood of Jesus that is of true and everlasting value. But rather, it's the treasury of the church. Treasury, meaning all the good works that have been built up through saints, through the Virgin Mary, through others' obediences.

Yet we are saved by the obedience of one. That's Christ. It's not through the obedience of Mary. It's not through the obedience of saints. Not even through my own merits. It is only through the merits and the obedience and the sacrifice of Jesus Christ.

Jesus is the Alpha and the Omega of the Christian. He's the beginning and the end of our salvation. There is no one else who can lay claim to this. Salvation is truly of the Lord. You have to see the severity of this error here.

Because again, as I said last week, every error of Rome stems really from a misunderstanding of justification and how a man can be made right with God. And that's at the heart of the Reformation. It's how can a man be made right with God?

It's through faith in Jesus Christ. And so the Church of Rome truly depreciates the sacrifice of Christ, and they make that which is immense, unfathomable, pristine to be the treasure of the Church, not the blood of Jesus.

Goes on to say this, in the treasury, too, are the prayers and good works of all the saints, all those who have fallen to the footsteps of Christ, the Lord, and by his grace have made their lives holy and carried out the mission of the Father and are entrusted to them.

In this way, they attain their own salvation. How, do you see that blasphemy there? Okay? They've attained their own salvation at the time, and at the same time, cooperated in saving their brothers in the unity of the mystical body.

Again, this is salvation outside of Christ. This is salvation outside of the Shed Blood of Jesus. Clearly damnable heresy, truly anathema. And this is why their need for purgatory truly rises, is because, again, Christ, in their view, is not truly sufficient to save.

And so purgatory's this place, is this intermediate state in which you can continually pay for your sins and have others join you in that repaying of venial sins. And so, this is a far cry from what the Bible teaches, brothers and sisters.

Again, we have to remove from our minds the idea that Rome is a kin brother of ours. It is not. This is as anti-Christ as it gets. Any other thoughts or questions on this subject? You see the need for the treasury as a means by which, again, because Christ's sacrifice isn't enough, there has to be other ways to pay for one's salvation.

And if you're stuck in purgatory, what recourse do you have? You cannot beg pardon through the blood of Christ. You must now atone, be purged of your sins through suffering. And again, purgatory is usually viewed not as heaven, not as hell, but there's a fire associated usually in purgatory.

And they refer to it as a refining fire. So they'll look at verses like Isaiah 4, like Micah chapter seven, which says in verse nine, I will bear the indignation of the Lord because I have sinned against him until he pleads my cause and executes judgment for me.

He will bring me forth to the light. I shall behold his deliverance. So you see there's this idea here that they look at the prophet Micah and the prophet Micah says, I'm gonna bear the indignation of the Lord, which means that in their view, I'm gonna pay for my sins.

And that the Lord through that, through that me bearing this indignation, he's eventually gonna bring me to the light. He's eventually gonna deliver me. And that's their expectation in purgatory is that even those who have venial sins to be taken care of, they're gonna bear God's indignation and they'll eventually be delivered.

But is that what the Bible teaches? Here's what the Bible teaches. Hebrews chapter nine, verse 27. It's appointed for man to die once and then the judgment. Okay? Appointed for man to die once and then the judgment.

Brothers, if you think you can bear the indignation, the wrath of the Lord, you've got another thing coming. There is only one who can truly bear it, who has borne it on our behalf and it's the just one, Jesus Christ, who bore our sins, who bore the wrath of God, which is why Paul can say of Christ that he's our propitiation.

He is the one who bears the wrath of God on our behalf in Romans chapter three. And no other can do that. No other can fully satisfy Jehovah's indignation against sinners. It's only through Christ. Yesterday we had a great conference in Sacramento and one of the things which our confession points to is that how are people in the Old Testament saved versus the New Testament?