Adult Sunday School - The Roman Catholic Controversy Part 18

Silicon Valley Reformed Baptist Church

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Adult Sunday School - The Roman Catholic Controversy Part 19

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Father we come before you Lord eager for the teaching of your word Lord we thank you that you've given us clarity and father that your spirit leads us in all truth

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And so father we entrust this time to you asking that you grant his wisdom and guidance And that your name would be magnified and glorified in these things and more in Jesus name.

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Amen All right. So let's continue our discussion on purgatory. We're kind of page about page 185 ish

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Yeah, 185 in our book and just a question for you guys

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Where are some things that stood out to you as you examine this doctrine of purgatory? Anything that stood out to you on the last year not last year last week

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We got to spend some time talking about purgatory as well. So anything that stands out to you any immediate thoughts or questions that arise?

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In the New Testament you don't find anything about that, about punishment for sins. You say that he's taking it all and the verses they use, like I mean that one about this life and talking about the, you know, this life and the life after.

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Oh therefore they talk about the sins being taken care of in the womb. That's completely not even talking about that.

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That's right. No, it's it's it's very true. It is a complex As I look at the proof text of purgatory, it's just it's confounding.

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It's really interesting. It's similar akin to again what Jehovah's Witnesses Mormons do where they take a scripture that's maybe a little bit vague and Man, they really take liberty of it and they just stretch it again

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My favorite example is for Jehovah's Witnesses is when Paul talks about paradise in 2nd

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Corinthians chapter 12 The Jehovah's Witnesses interpret that paradise to be

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Paul foreseeing the future harmony of God's organization and You know based upon, you know, the

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Watchtower and based out of Brooklyn, New York And so like man like really

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I mean It doesn't take a biblical scholar to like look at the scripture and hear that interpretation be like mmm.

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I Don't know about that one Yeah, but but they say it's so like convincingly like I remember being a

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Jehovah's Witness and and like studying that text and everyone's like Oh, yeah, that's what it means. It's like Get there.

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It's like it's like bad math. I don't know how we got there Similarly to the Mormons as well though The Mormons will take liberties of vague scriptures for instance

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First Corinthians 15 talks about baptism of the dead and they take that they literally serve baptizing dead people.

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I Think you thought they were like grave robbing and like actually taking dead bodies out and baptizing them

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But that's yeah, that's just kind of the ludicrous stuff that that you know comes out of the imagination of man when they misinterpret

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God's Word and really the Bible is a book that is

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Kind of be careful about saying this because opponents of God's Word really Contained God's Word and and you've heard it said before, you know, you can make the

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Bible say whatever you want to say Yes, and no Because again, it comes down to having a proper

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Science of interpretation, right? so just like in anything when it comes to data when it comes to actual science when it comes to Mathematics and it goes to anything that has objective truth and reality to it

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There has to be a way of approaching it in order to really draw out the proper meaning and the same thing is true

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Of scripture. We have to have a proper Exegesis we have to have a proper hermeneutics in order to approach the scripture and draw out the original meaning and Purpose of the text and so again purgatory is one of those things that man the

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Catholic Church is truly taking liberties and Speaking in the in the gaps of silence and coming out with this major You know doctrine anything else stand out to you in the remainder of that chapter

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Yes, they'll When you die, you become angels because they get their theology from TV Theology of purgatory is from TV so it's hard to jettison that But the idea that All your sins up to that point are forgiven when you believe but all the sins after that worries this

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Awful place It's like a Ben and Jerry episode, right You know purgatory is is is a fascinating concept in itself

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And again last week we talked about one of the areas in which it arises from is a misunderstanding of the biblical intermediate intermediate state right and so there's a there's there's

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Hades shield in the Bible and and the confusion around purgatory arises out of a

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Bad theology stemming out of a misunderstanding of those places, right? the intermediate state

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Yeah, yeah the intermediate state she'll Hades Yeah, yeah shields what we see in the

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Old Testament. It's a term for the place of the dead. It's kind of it's kind of a

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Huge bucket term so it can mean different things varying on the context of the verse

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The same thing with Hades and the Greek New Testament, it's the equivalent to the to the

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Hebrew shield and and both Old Testament folks and New Testament folks have kind of Again, these are words that don't come out of a vacuum

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They have a contextual meaning and so the Hades is very famous in Greek mythology, right?

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And Hades was the place of of today It's where people went and it was typically associated with a place of torment now as the

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Greeks developed their own theology and philosophy surrounding their mythologies They began to develop what's called a heavenly

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Hades. And so they had like this dual compartment that's actually where the Roman Catholic Church takes liberty in developing its concept of Purgatory is this heavenly ethereal

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Hades and and that's where a lot of the Roman Catholic version of purgatory Rises from is from a later

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Greek understanding of a heavenly Hades, which is really interesting. So Yeah, yes, sir

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Yes Yeah, we're gonna go more into the area of indulgences just in a few moments here in this chapter

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But yeah, it's absolutely right and it's it's of interest in terms of how purgatory develops in and it it develops in conjunction with indulgences, right and because again you need a means by which these things can be rectified in the afterlife, right and so the the development of Purgatory and indulgences go hand -in -hand and Roman Catholicism.

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So absolutely, right. Yes Sell it

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Yeah, that's because they needed to build st. Peter's Basilica Cost money, you know, and it will go deeper into this but at this point in church history you know, the

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Pope has not just Ecclesiastical authority, but he has civil authority, right so he can call for collection of taxes and You know, he's really essentially the continuation of the

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Roman Emperor and so So the Pope has civil authority along with ecclesiastical authority and that's still true today in The Vatican the

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Vatican is a city -state. And so he has ecclesiastical and Nation state power.

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So yeah, so he is still that little horn spoken of Daniel truly is

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And so yeah, so to go deeper into this again, we're in page about 185 And the at the tail end of that and the

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Treasury of Merit and indulgences and Really kind of page 186, but I do want to I really want to read this quote from.

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Dr. Philip Schaaf He says the traffic and ecclesiastical places of forgiveness of sins Constitutes the very last scene of medieval of the medieval church history on the eve of the

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Reformation We have the spectacle of the Pope Solomon renewing the claim to have rule over both spheres

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Sybil and ecclesiastical and to hold in his hands the salvation of all mankind Yay And actually supporting the extravagant luxuries of his worldly court with money is drawn from trade and sacred things

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So, you know if you know anything about Roman Catholicism, you know that they meddle a lot in Artifacts so, you know probably one of the more famous one that comes to mind is a shot of Turin guys heard of the shot of Turin which is supposedly

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Like a Blanket that has the face of Jesus on it in the body of Jesus and it's been kept in a church in Italy in a town

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Called Turin which is why it's called the shot of Turin And what they'll do is every couple years They'll put it out and people will line up and they'll they'll want to take pictures.

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They want to touch it They want to you know, you know basically paying indulgences to it And so this was very famous, especially by the time that Luther obviously writes his thesis, you know

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You know every every church and in the Empire had some type of artifact, you know linking it to st

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Peter, you know everyone I think what was the what was the smart Alec thing that that Luther said that every church had you know

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Either the nails of the cross or or a bone of st. Peter And so because that's what they were peddling in, you know, they were they were selling religion

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They were selling access to to to God. They were selling access to these artifacts And so this is a means by which they were of course

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Drawing lots of revenue in terms of taxation and indulgences And it keeps on saying this

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This quote here how deep -seated the pernicious principle had become was made manifest in the bull which leal issues as Pope Leo November 9 9 15 18 a full year after the milling of the thesis on the church door at Wittenberg Luther writing his 95 theses in which all were threatened with Excommunication who feel the preach and believe that the

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Pope had the right to grant Indulgences now Luther's one of the Luther's main gripes of the move the potpourri had become the issuing of indulgences

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Again, this is in the middle of the building of st. Peter's st. Peter's Basilica the

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Empire is still trying to raise lots of revenue and so you would have From from the

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Vatican you'd have these representatives that would go into each town throughout Throughout Europe and they would sell they'd have these these these

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Proclamations that were sealed by the Pope's ring and it would say something to the effect, you know, hey, you know

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We're we're selling these indulgences. We're raising this money if you want to get your Ancestors out of purgatory.

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Here's what you've got to do And you know this blatant selling of religion is blatant selling of Indulgences really disgusted

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Martin Luther and other reformers which led to you know, the build -up of this fervor

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To kind of rebel against that but you see early on in the

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Reformation this this this Rebuke of indulgences and much of his thesis that he nails to the door in the church of Wittenberg has to deal with the indulgences

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That Roman Catholicism was peddling in and so again you have this this duality within the

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Pope civil and Ecclesiastical authority and so because he has both he can call taxes and he can call

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You know go into these towns and demand essentially money You've got this huge conflict

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It's huge coffee. That's kind of building up And so what do the people do all the people begin to look for an ulterior message and that was exactly where the

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Reformers come in and begin to Preach the gospel and free of charge when again

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I think our church knows the thing or two about that considering one of our pastors has written a whole book for free on the cost of ministry and what and what support should look like and Selling access to gospel material and all those things and so I think there's still much room for Reformation in that area

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So indulgences what is indulgences though? What are indulgences? We've been talking about that for a little bit. What are indulgences?

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Think of what that word means. What does it mean to indulge? kind of right like to If you want to indulge in something it means like there's an extravagance, but there's a price that comes with that extravagance, right?

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There's always a price associated with something that's extra That's that's that in which you're indulging in and so, you know, they're they're selling essentially access.

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That's what it means they're selling access and when they're selling in The Roman Catholic Church would say we're not selling indulgences and they would say that they never sold

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Indulgences Rome would be would say what they're doing is that they are opening the opportunity to you have to have access

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To indulgences, so they don't like the term When you say that they've been selling indulgences, they really don't like that because they know it's a bad look, right?

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But but it's essentially it's really What they're doing is they're selling access and what are they selling access to well in this case in line of purgatory

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They're selling access for dead people to get out of there Right now again, why does the need for purgatory rise in Roman Catholic theology it arises because of their view of sin

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What are the three views of sin that they have? Venial which is what?

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That's a good way of putting it. That's right. So you have venial sins and you have Mortal sins which are what like murders are like bad like those are these are

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Damnable sins. Okay, so you have venial sins you have mortal sins.

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What's the other one? What's that That's funny

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No cardinal sins is is technically a use but it's not it's not There's another term that you made me forget

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We went over this last week guys who didn't take their notes Okay. Yeah, so there's so there's three views of sin in the

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Roman Catholic Church There's the venial sins mortal sins and there's also original sin Okay, so original sin is is is that which is imposed on you at birth?

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That's what has to be washed away You know through baptism and they have mortal sins Which again, these are severe degrees of sins which can be damnable and there's venial sins

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Which are less severe sins that are typically the things that are dealt with in purgatory, right?

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So in purgatory, you're not dealing with mortal sins of you if you have mortal sins, you'd be in hell

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But if you were forgiven of those mortal sins, you know through rituals of the

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Roman Catholic Church last rites But you still have venial sins to to to deal with purgatory is that place where you deal with it

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Now what biblical evidence is there of purgatory? Let's be fair to the

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Catholics. What biblical evidence? Is there purgatory? Exactly that it's the answer there is even at the most charitable

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Way that we can be to them There is no biblical backing for the concept of purgatory as we mentioned last week the only

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Way you can really get there is through a misunderstanding of the intermediate state misunderstanding of Sheol Hades You know other places but but if we want to be even more fair to Roman Catholicism You know here here are some scriptures.

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I want you to consider And one of them is going to be in obviously in the Roman Catholic Bible They have a couple of books that we don't as Protestants and in the second book of Maccabees read it to you

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Chapter 12 here's probably the strongest proof text of purgatory according to Roman Catholicism and And you if you blink you'll miss it.

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So I'm gonna read it to you slowly It says the second Maccabees chapter 12 verse 40 45

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For had he not For had he not expected the fallen to rise again It would have been superfluous and foolish to pray for the dead

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Where areas if he had in view the splendid recompense reserved for those who make a pious end

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The thought was holy and devout Hence he had Dix this expiatory sacrifice offered for the dead so that they might be released from their sin

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Okay, and so here's the strongest text in in in the

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Roman Catholic Canon of Scripture for Purgatory well first of all most word purgatory isn't used.

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Okay, so it's not there. She'll isn't used Hades isn't used No term other than the dead is used and it says that there are those who pray for the dead

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Now pastor calmly is it appropriate for Christians to pray for the dead Exactly it is not appropriate for Christians to pray for that both in the

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Old Testament and the New Testament make it clear That we are not to pray to the dead Now the Roman Catholic Church has an interesting concept in which you know, they have in view

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What they call, you know the church militant in the church Yeah, and I guess that's like the heavenly the church that's in heaven the church militant being the church that's here and That's that's on earth and they'd say listen.

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Well the dead that are in Christ are alive Therefore when you're praying to a dead you're not praying to a dead person.

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You're praying It's like it's like they're in a room with you But again, that is a denial of the of this of the severity of death in the

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Roman Catholic Church That it is still a separation from the body even if it is to be present with the

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Lord It denies the severing of death and the reality of that in the human experience

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But in second Maccabees again It says that there are those who pray for the dead and that there's an atonement that's made for the dead that they might be delivered from their sin, so first and foremost

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Second Maccabees should not be considered scripture I'll give you two reasons why

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I'm not convinced about the Apocrypha So any books of the Apocrypha Tobit first second

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Maccabees, you know all the other ones And the reason honestly, it's a very simple reason, you know

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These books were written in what's called the intertestamental period which is around the year 400 to 100

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BC okay, and The intertestamental period has to deal with for instance the time period in which the world was becoming

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Hellenized Anyone know what that means? In Greek, so this is the period of Hellenization, which is when the

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Greeks became a major power Greeks you know religion language philosophy begin to And built the world obviously during a time the

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Greeks ultimately fall and Rome Rises as a result of it and and Rome adopts much of the

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Greeks Language religion culture, even though do you know what the actual official language of the

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Romans was? It wasn't Greek it was actually Latin even though Greek because the

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Greeks had done such a good job of Hellenizing the world It was still kind of de facto language of the time, but truly

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Latin was the official language of the Empire, which is why when Jesus is crucified

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You have three languages over his head. You have Latin Greek Hebrew and so but in in this time period you have a lot of just Cracks that you know just crazy people that are coming out of the woodworks.

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This is a time which books of Familiarity of written for instance the books of Enoch you've heard of the books of Enoch Book of Enoch was written during this intertestamental period so it wasn't written by Enoch It was written during this period of time

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You have a lot of very weird literature that arises all this time and the apocryphas are

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Among them and what distinguishes them from being authentic Old Testament literature I think it's actually really clearly seen in the text itself

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None of the apocrypha have the divine name None of the apocrypha have the divine name you might be asking yourself

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Why is that important because with only two exceptions every Old Testament book has a divine name?

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Okay, which shows the importance the style of writing in the

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Old Testament and so the fact that all of the old or the

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Apocrypha is none of the apocryphas have the divine name tells me insight into Were these things inspired by Yahweh most likely not most likely not there would have been no reason to exclude the name other than the fact that Culturally around this time is when the name began to fall out of usage.

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Was there an intertestamental period between? 400 BC to about first century was when the name

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Started not to be used and so they were adopting, you know that view obviously not using the name now

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New Testament writers also as far as we know don't use the name But I think there's a very different reason for that then the reasons for that we see for those who wrote the apocrypha

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Any thoughts or questions on that? Yes That does not have the divine name.

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So there's only two books in the Old Testament. Don't have the divine name I think it's Esther and the Cleese Is Yazzie's and some would argue song of Solomon But I would say the song of Solomon actually does have the divine name in chapter 9 verse 12 it talks about the very flame of y 'all of job or job being a shortened form of the name

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Jehovah and so most translations would put that as the flame of the

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Lord and that's the Lord meaning Yahweh and so the shortened form of Of the divine name is used in that in song of Solomon.

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So All right. Any other questions on that? So the apocrypha really shouldn't be considered

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Scripture, that's what I'm saying And there's more reasons why but I think those are two pretty good reasons

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I wouldn't trust any literature that comes out of the intertestamental period other than just purely good data

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You know so we can you look at that and we can get an idea of what these people were thinking believing But obviously it's not helpful to view them as scripture and so this is the best text that they've got

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This is the best text that they've got And it's even this one is ambiguous Even this one isn't crystal clear.

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Even this one has a lot of science by which the Roman Catholic Church can say well, hey You know we can use this and we can stretch it, you know, like like dough you ever stretch dough before ever make pizza

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I make a pretty good pizza And so when you stretch a dough and you start, you know, you have this lump and it's amazing

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How how how large you can make that lump and that's exactly what these cults and Roman Catholicism in particular do with the

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Word of God They take the word and they stretch it and they pull it and they really Stretch the meaning of the text and so in terms of other scriptures that they use again

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And I'm actually reading this from a Roman Catholic apologists website Some of the verses they use

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Psalm 66 verse 12 for instance, which says thou didst let men ride over our heads

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We went through fire and through water yet. Thou has brought us forth to a spacious place

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Purgatory like really That's Okay, spacious place.

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Oh, but that's spacious place. You know, that could be this like, you know, they really stretch the tax

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Isaiah 4 4 It says when the Lord shall have washed away the filth of the daughters of Zion and cleansed the bloodstains of Jerusalem from its midst by a spirit of judgment and by a spirit of burning

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Again these are proof texts According to Roman Catholicism for purgatory.

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Did you see purgatory there? Not even slightly to be honest with you, you know the the idea of spirit of judgment and the spirit of burning

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That's where they kind of get the idea that purgatory is a place of refining fire Right, so it's not hell, but it's a place in which people can pay for their venial sins

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They can be refined so they become sanctified enough to go ultimately eventually to heaven and that's the that's the flaw of Rome here

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Again, it comes like I said last week Every doctrinal issue that stems out of Rome stems out of a misunderstanding of justification

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Okay Justification is truly at the heart of Rome's errors because if one is truly justified by faith through faith in Jesus Christ Then and if as Romans chapter 5 says therefore since we've been justified by faith

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We can have peace of God through our Lord Jesus Christ in which we now have this grace in which we stand so we stand in the grace of God through faith in Jesus Christ, or We have to pay for our sins by means of various processes

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Purgatory being that ultimate last stop of sanctification for those who have venial sins.

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Yeah Yeah, and like the book says here

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There's a common misconception that the practice is the practice of indulgences by Roman Catholicism Ended centuries ago, but that's not the case at all in fact

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You know, he's gonna in the book in page 186. There's a quote here from Basically the doctor the book called the doctrine of indulgences and And it's from the

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Vatican to dated January 1st 1967 and it teaches that there is a continuation of Indulgences and various means so yeah, this practice is not something that's just unique to the medieval church

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This is something that continues even till this day and if you ever go to Rome if you ever go to the

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Vatican You'll see that there's still lots of places in which you know It mimics the medieval church where you can literally pay for indulgences.

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So It's very interesting, yeah Not you can know there's no there's no direct correlation between Some of the practices of The Eastern Orthodox Church in regard to indulgences.

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I think they would reject indulgences as practice by Rome Now it's a different question if do they have a form of indulgences.

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I would say yes But they would claim these are not The same and and the consequences are not the same so for instance, you know

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They don't believe in the Roman Catholic view of purgatory. And so The indulgences so -called indulgences of the

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Eastern Orthodox Church Don't have this don't carry the same consequence, right?

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But but you know, it really depends because what do you what do you would you consider an indulgence? I would say

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You know infant baptism is a form of indulgence Because it carries the same

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Connotation. It's is a means outside of grace outside of justification by which

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I can be justified Right, and so that's what it really comes down to is any other form of means to be justified.

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Yeah That's right.

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That's right Yeah, and yeah, and they still do ask for money like if you go to I've had a lot of friends

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I haven't gone yet. I do it's on my bucket list to go to Italy and go to the Vatican And just like in ancient times you have medieval times.

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You'll have people who will sell Indulgences, but they're not officially associated with Rome of the

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Vatican, but they'll sell you Holy relics holy items and they'll say hey if you buy this this is gonna help you.

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This is gonna help your ancestor Even today and again this might not go straight into the coffers of Rome itself

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But if you ever go to a bodega like I grew up in the hood We have bodegas everywhere every bodega has a full section of candles of Saints Okay, that is a form of indulgence

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You're taking these candles with the with these Pacific Saints these specific prayers you buy it you pray these prayers

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Sometimes these little pendants of gold with st. Jude or st. Mary. These are all forms of indulgences now

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These are not necessarily officially Licensed by Rome, but it is still very much within the practice of Roman Catholicism it is so ingrained in Roman Catholicism that people people will you know are just accustomed to Buying access to God whether it be through these candles these prayers these rosaries or these other artifacts so Any other thoughts or questions?

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And it says and to submit to the torture of fire at the feet of Jesus Christ So let's let's let

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Rome define for us what they mean by purgatory in page 187 In this quote here in the middle purgatory dentures discussion these words

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This is based upon the book the doctrine of indulgences The doctrine of purgatory clearly demonstrates that even when the guilt of sin has been taken away punishment for it

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Or the consequence of it may remain or be expiated or cleansed They often are in fact in purgatory the souls of those who died in the charity of God and truly repentant but who had not made

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Satisfaction with adequate penance for their sins and omissions are cleansed after death with Punishments designed to purge away their debt.

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This is an affront to the sacrifice of Jesus Christ This is a clear attack on the ransom sacrifice of the propitiation that comes through the shed blood of Christ It is a denial of the blood of Jesus.

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You cannot be more Antichrist than this Again, we got to get into our minds.

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This is not another friendly, you know religion That is our kin that is our brothers.

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No, this is a false religion This is a Antichrist religion and attacking the very atonement of Christ the very heart of the gospel

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It doesn't get more serious than that folks This this is a truly an Antichrist Church and especially because they claim to be

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Christ's authority particularly in the Pope and So they believe again that purgatory is a place in which people who are repentant

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But had not made satisfaction through penance Have to have their sins cleansed.

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The question that arises is what of the blood of Jesus? If someone repents according to Peter 2nd or in Acts chapter 2 verse 38 repent

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Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and be baptized That is the formula right and it says if you repent and believe on the

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Lord Jesus Christ, you shall be what? Saved What then of the sacrifice of Jesus if we look at this doctrine if we take this seriously and we believe this it makes very little of Christ it makes very little of the shed blood of Jesus and And and that is something that is truly abominable it goes on to say this the continuation of this quote down here in the bottom the same page 187 on the contrary the treasure of the church is the

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Infinite value which can never be exhausted which Christ merits have before God The treasure includes as well the prayers and the good works of the

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Blessed Virgin Mary They are truly immense and unfathomable and even pristine and their value before God, so let's look what they're doing

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What is that fountain that is truly inexhaustible? It's the blood of Christ. What are they now doing?

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They're replacing that fount with another They're saying it's not the blood of Jesus that is truly inexhaustible

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It's not the blood of Jesus that is a true and everlasting value, but rather it's a treasury of the church

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Treasury meaning all the good works that have been built up through Saints through the

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Virgin Mary through others obediences Yet we are saved by the obedience of one

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That's Christ. It's not through the obedience of Mary. It's not through the obedience of Saints not even through my own merits

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It is only through the merits and the obedience and sacrifice of Jesus Christ Jesus is the

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Alpha and Omega of the Christian. He's the beginning and the end of our salvation There is no one else who can lay claim to this salvation is truly of the

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Lord you have to see the severity of this error here because again as I said last week every error of Rome stems really from a misunderstanding of justification and How a man can be made right with God and that's at the heart of the

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Reformation It's how can a man be made right with God? It's through faith in Jesus Christ And so the

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Church of Rome truly depreciates The sacrifice of Christ and they make that which is immense unfathomable pristine to be the treasure of the church and not the blood of Jesus Goes on to say this

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In the Treasury to are the prayers and good works of all the Saints all those who have fallen the footsteps of Christ the

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Lord and by his grace have made their lives holy and carried out the mission Of the Father and trusted to them in this way.

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They attain their own salvation. How do you see that blasphemy there? Okay They've attained their own salvation at the time and at the same time

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Cooperated in saving their brothers in the unity of the mystical body Again this is salvation outside of Christ.

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This is salvation outside of the Shed blood of Jesus clearly damnable heresy

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Truly anathema And this is why their need for purgatory truly rises is because again

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Christ and their view is not truly sufficient to save and So purgatory's this place is this intermediate state in which you can continue continually pay for your sins and have others join you in that repaying of Venial sins

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So this is a far cry from what the Bible teaches brothers and sisters Again, we have to remove from our minds the idea that Rome is a kin brother of ours

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It is not this is as anti Christ says as it gets You know thoughts or questions on this subject

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You see the need for the Treasury as a means by which Again because Christ's sacrifice isn't enough.

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There has to be other ways to pay for one's salvation And if you're stuck in purgatory

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What recourse do you have? you cannot you know

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Beg pardon through the blood of Christ. You must now atone be purged of your sins

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Through suffering and again purgatory is usually viewed not Not as heaven but not as hell

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But there's a fire associated usually in purgatory and they refer to as a refining fire.

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So they'll look at verses like Isaiah 4 like Micah chapter 7 which says in verse 9

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I will bear digging the indignation of the Lord because I've sinned against him until he pleads my cause and executes judgment for me

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He will bring me forth to the light. I shall behold his deliverance. So you see there's this idea here

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That they look at the prophet Micah and the prophet Micah says I'm gonna bear indignation of the

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Lord which means that in their view I'm gonna pay for my sins and That the Lord through that through that through that me bearing this indignation.

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He's eventually gonna bring me to the light He's eventually gonna deliver me and that's their expectation in purgatory.

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Is that even those who have? Have venial sins to be taken care of they're gonna bear

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God's indignation and they'll eventually be delivered But is that what the Bible teaches? Here's what the

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Bible teaches Hebrews chapter 9 verse 27, it's appointed for man to die once and then the judgment

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Point for man to die once and then the judgment Brothers, there's if you think you can bear dig the indignation the wrath of the

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Lord You've got another thing coming There is only one who can truly bear it who has borne it on our behalf and it's the just one

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Jesus Christ Who bore our sins who bore the wrath of God, which is why Paul can say of Christ.

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He's our propitiation He is the one who bears the wrath of God on our behalf in Romans chapter 3 and no other can do that No other can fully satisfy

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Jehovah's indignation against sinners It's only through Christ yesterday. We had a great conference in Sacramento and One of the things which our confession points to is that how are people in the

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Old Testament say versus the New Testament? Well, we're saved In the same manner. It was always through Christ Christ is the

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Savior of the Old Testament Church of the New Testament Church And it was always through grace either God in the past times looking forward to the propitiation of sins that would come or Obviously in light of the propitiation that comes in Jesus Christ.

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We were saved through that sacrifice one in the same And so there is no salvation

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Old or New Testament With in which you bear your sins

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Successfully or bear God's wrath successfully. It is always through Christ that one is saved.

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And so any thoughts or questions on that? Purgatory is again one of those weird things that we we wrestle with and we consider

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Rome and notice the association the

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Pope's power to Maybe deliver people out of purgatory.

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It's a page 188 It says and there's a quote here again the same from the book of the the doctrine of indulgences and It says for God's only begotten

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Son Has won a treasure for the militant church the militant church being the the church of made up of Saints are alive

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He has entrusted it to the blessed to blessed Peter The key bearer of heaven and to his successors who are

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Christ's Vicar's on earth So that they may distribute it to the faithful for their salvation

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Okay So the Pope has the very power and keys of salvation

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Friends what's wrong with that picture? Yeah, where's

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Jesus in this what else is wrong with this picture? You know, here's what

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I think is a main problem and you see this time and time again in Catholicism Rome will often take that which rightly belongs to God and God alone and Distribute it to others and distribute it to to men.

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And so in the Old Testament, we know that God is a jealous God Isaiah 42 8 says

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I'm Jehovah. That is my name. I shall not give my glory to another neither Shall I share my praise or of graven images?

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Okay That's why I see a 42 8 says and what Rome does time and time again is that they take offices?

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Attributes of God and they attribute it to other human beings. So for instance crisis our mediator.

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Well, who's Mary? She's the co -mediate mediatrix of heaven an Office that belongs to Christ alone is now shared amongst the creature

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Okay, that which belongs to the infinite God now belongs to also finite humans. Same is true here of The the power to say the power to impart salvation

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Well, these keys according to Rome was given to the Pope and his successors or to Peter and his successors meaning the

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Pope Scripture says that salvation is of the Lord. It's of God alone again

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You you cannot the the chasm here is just too great to ignore between orthodox

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Christianity and What Rome teaches? The continuation of the quote here is it says in addition we ought not to forget that when they try to gain indulgences a faithful Submit with docile out docility.

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That's a weird word Docility to the lawful pastors of the church above all they acknowledge the authority of the successor of blessed

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Peter the key bearer of heaven so one in order to have true salvation has to submit to the authority of Peter's successors who are the key bearers of heaven

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Very similar to what Jehovah's Witnesses say about the Watchtower organization

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There's a quote from a June 1st 1983 Watchtower magazine that says that one cannot find salvation outside of Jehovah's Organization And so they put the organization as kind of like the

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Pope's they don't have one central Pope But they have this concept of this governing body this organization

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That is in itself acts like a Pope and is this intermediary between God and man?

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And so you can't be saved outside of God's organization You can't be saved according to Rome outside of the

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Pope and this was one of Martin Luther's contentions with Catholicism with the

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Pope was that you know Catholicism argued that one cannot be saved apart from the Roman Catholic Church Luther says one cannot be a saved apart from Christ.

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Okay, so these two things were at odds, okay? so the institution of the church is

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Is is a means by which Salvation is imparted for the for the

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Protestant. It's we're saved that we become part of the church And so it's not like the church saves us

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But rather we are saved into the Church of Christ So much can be said on this subject and there's so many quotations

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Here that we can examine, but I think I want one thing to kind of stand out to us

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And so we understand again the Pope has the authority to Sell indulgences.

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These are part of the Treasury of the church The Treasury being the good works And so if you want to earn your way out of purgatory

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You have to appeal to the good works the Treasury of the Roman Catholic Church That's your only way out essentially of purgatory

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I mean the other way out was just to continue to pay for your venial sins in purgatory, but Rome says that can be

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Years hundreds of years maybe even thousands of years and That's very unspecified.

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We don't know how long a person can be in purgatory and because of that there is this constant fear of well

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We have to do something to speed up that process and And again, that's where the indulgences come in.

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It's where the Pope's Authority comes in and wasn't there.

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I think not even that long ago didn't like the Pope like sign off on like Setting a whole bunch of souls free.

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This must have been like five probably five years ago, you know He did something that allowed lots of souls to go free from purgatory.

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I don't remember exactly what the details were But again, that's that's within his purview it's within his

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Authority and so if he was a good Pope, wouldn't they just always leave purgatory empty if there were a good

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Pope? Right if I want to be them if I want to be a merciful Pope because I'm essentially a co -savior the merciful thing to Do is just empty purgatory.

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So every day when people died there should be a release of purgatory Because he has that authority that that kingly and that priestly authority as one who has the keys of heaven

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Yes, I believe so Say again

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Yeah, that's right Go ahead man. Why is that the reason why it's because there's no assurance

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Right, there's no assurance and because there's no assurance, you know, you kind of hope for the best we prefer prepare for the worst, right?

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so You had your hand up brother Yeah, and they have to because oftentimes popes contradict each other

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And and you have different styles of Pope so you have kind of a liberal Pope now and Pope Francis You had a more conservative

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Pope so -called conservative Pope in Pope Benedict And so you kind of have this back -and -forth and so when it when an officer

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You know when the Pope is speaking Was at Cathedral then he is speaking authoritatively in terms of teaching

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And doctrine reproof for the church Otherwise, it's just his opinion

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But you you don't see many of these things happening, you know any more of these these great councils or you know

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Joining together and and and and bringing forth these, you know at Cathedral edicts

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You don't see it very often and I think it's because you know again, there's a practicality to it They want to stay away from being too dogmatic.

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And so to some degree you see a Lessening of dogmaticism within Roman Catholicism and it's big it is becoming in a sense more liberal to some degree

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It's probably only a matter of time before they you know, you already have Homeless the homosexual agenda infiltrated great parts of Roman Catholicism, you know, it's only a matter of time probably a

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Couple decades away before it's completely mainstream and accepted within the hierarchy of the church so So eventually, you know these things will will will catch up to Roman.

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It'll be its its downfall hopefully, but she is that that great whore and She'll keep prostituting herself to the spiritual harness of this world and so, you know, it's it's no surprise

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Yeah, deaf I Mean there were there was like two popes

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I think in history that were executed that were like a executed, right? I think they were executed but they were still the

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Pope Yeah, I think so am I right on that Okay Yeah, yeah,

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I'm pretty sure it was like to church to Pope's in church history that were executed But they were still the

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Pope Yeah, they're like so there's there is no like removing a Pope essentially only deaf really

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They can't voluntary step down that's right as we see now Pope Benedict and so Yeah, they are voted that's when a

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Pope is selected it is by the the College of Cardinals and But I don't think the

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College of Cardinals has the authority to remove a Pope Yes, that's right.

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Yeah, I was because if they burn If they burn the papers in a certain way and the black smoke comes off then it means like they couldn't they couldn't get to agreement

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So now but it is fascinating I just want to close off of this so we can move on from this topic next week

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Again I showed you some of the best texts I could find in support for purgatory in the

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Bible and Really? It's of no support to purgatory because the Bible does not teach this concept.

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It's not a biblical concept whatsoever What is what is taught by Rome in regard to Purgatory it actually evolves out of pagan thought and theology as I mentioned early earlier, you know, the

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Greeks had a version of of Hades that was understood and Later on in Greek mythology you begin to see the seeds of what's called a heavenly

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Hades so you had this Hades which was like bad torment, then you had this heavenly Hades and And really purgatory stems out of that That wave of understanding of Hades saying hey there.

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There's a Hades. It's not very hot, but it's not very heavenly either it's kind of this in -between and And you see that again develop in later stages of Greek mythology and ultimately embraced by Rome So this is not a biblical concept whatsoever.

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The Bible also doesn't teach a doctrine of indulgences Other than the only indulgence that can set us free and that's the blood of Christ Right, even if you wanted to I wouldn't personally use that term to describe it, but if you wanted to have a term

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Proper a concept or biblical mindset of indulgences it's there's only one indulgence that can save and it's the blood of Jesus and And it's your faith in him his shed blood his merit his mercy applied to the believer.

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And so Any thoughts or questions on this subject before we move on? and again, this really is a all all these discussions.

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I want you to see the the The line here it all comes back to justification all comes back to justification.

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Yes That's exactly yeah, and that's exactly what

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I was alluding to yeah Well, oh every country every every heavily

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Catholic culture has this and that's why I met earlier when I said It is so ingrained within the culture of Roman Catholicism That you know, even in America the kin that we have is you go to the grocery store and you buy these candles, right?

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So here it's not here's more capitalistic, but in other countries in South America Central America and the

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Philippines you have things exactly like that where people are selling indulgences. It doesn't go straight Straight to Rome it goes into their pockets usually but it's so ingrained within the ethos of Roman Catholicism that you find it everywhere

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Exactly exactly. Yeah, it's just one means of peddling religion for profit. Yeah Emmanuel you had your hand up Yeah, I mean there people are drawn to religions for various reasons

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Mormons Jehovah's Witnesses also draw a lot of people due to the family influence and Promise of good family life and things of that nature you know,

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I think the greater appeal in Rome is an appeal to authority is an appeal to Ancient authority and so in the world that we live in that's so postmodern and that's so wishy -washy

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People are looking to embrace some form of tradition and I think that Rome Orthodoxism other groups

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Offer some of that solace and some of that comfort of belonging to something that's well established That's old as a tradition that predates this post modernism that we're in today but I think again those are

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Not all those things are invalid I think obviously going to Rome Would be an error a grave error

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For any person to consider and which is one of the things that one of reasons why I think our churches of great appeal as well

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Is because we are a confessional church, which means that we don't hold on to just what the preacher learned from a 2018 commentary but rather what's been the historic profession of Baptists for ever and so you know,

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I think that's one of the appeals of a church like ours that we do appeal to a Line of tradition that predates us.

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So Well brothers sisters, let me pray and we'll get ready for service

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God we thank you that we can approach your word and understand and receive clarity by means of good instruction by means of the leading of your

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Holy Spirit Lord help us to Use this information to rightly minister to those who are lost in Roman Catholicism Father it can be really tempting to look at some of the outlandish

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Doctrines and beliefs of Rome and be so dismissive of this yet Lord We must wrestle and grasp the fact that there is 1 billion people on this planet

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That believe in these doctrines that hold fast to These errors and so Lord help us to have a heart for Roman Catholics who are in grave error who need to repent and believe in Jesus And his sufficiency

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Lord We pray God that you'd begin to open the eyes of the blind that you'd use this church and those who this church supports in order to Bring forth the gospel to those who are lost in Rome.

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It's a father. We pray God that you would Grant these things and more for the success of the gospel for the glory of your name in Jesus name.