It DOESNT Have to Be This Way, Dr. James White (Emotional Ending) - Part 3

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Make it happen. The link is in the description. All right. All right. We're going to get into it today. Today is Friday, so I hope you have a good weekend coming up. I'm going to go apple picking tomorrow, and we've got a dinner planned for tomorrow.

We've got the kids have a birthday party with some church friends, and it's just going to be a good day. So we're going to get right into it, and well, I guess I'm going to post this video tomorrow. So I guess it's today that they have all that stuff going on.

I don't want you to think we're going to birthday parties and apple picking on the Lord's Day. No, nope, nope. Not at all. Not at all. We're going to be worshipping the Lord with the saints on the Lord's Day.

But in any case, let's just do part three. It's really part four, but part two is kind of broken up due to some technical and mental malfunctions. But in any case, yeah, James White looks ready. I'm ready.

Everybody's ready here. So we're just going to get into it. Here we go. I guess I'm not ready because it's on mute.

The Crusades, Gospel Agreement, and Historical Interpretation

Now let's go. All of the gospel part, because that's 90 of what I've been saying. Here I am.

Right. So this is the thing. So if you watch the last video, I had that edit that I did while I was editing the video. And it's not that we're ignoring the gospel part. We understand what you're saying on the gospel part of the issue with the Crusades.

But the thing is, we agree with you on that side of it. But where people disagree is where you're interpreting the history. Oh, the Crusades were bad. They didn't do anything. They weakened Constantinople and all this kind of stuff.

We disagree with you on that part. And that's the part where we see the positive aspects of things that we're grateful for. And so it does you no good. And it hurts your credibility when you pretend like the part that we're disagreeing apart is those fundamental aspects of the gospel.

We agree with you. Please. I've seen people try with you to help you to listen to this. We agree with that part. We disagree on your interpretation of the history. And that's where we're seeing the positive things where people are saying, Yeah, you know, that was actually beneficial.

And we're grateful for that part and all that kind of stuff. It's not the plenary indulgences that we're grateful for. It's not the, you know, the Pope and all their shenanigans that we're grateful for.

We agree with you on that. So if you hear nothing else, Dr. White, hear that the part where we disagree with you apart about is the part that we're finding the positives and that people are using as a symbol and that people are interested in.

And that's why you're seeing the memes that drive you up the wall. I mean, I don't post those kinds of memes. You know, I don't post the crusader with the AIR and stuff like that. The Arnold Schwarzenegger crusader.

I don't do that kind of stuff. It's not for me, but that's why people are doing that stuff. It's the part where they disagree with you on how the history shakes out. And it really does you no good to try to make divisions over you.

You always are lamenting divisions. This division ought not be here. It's a different interpretation of the history. And you think you're right. I get it. Joseph thinks he's right. I get it. But that's not to say that all the gospel stuff that you say, oh, I thought we agreed.

No, we do agree. We do agree. We do agree. And I know it's you can't disconnect it completely. Nobody's saying you can disconnect it completely, but you can look at it from different perspectives and say, you know, that the fact that God used that in history to stop the Muslims.

I know you disagree with that, but that's what that's how I see the history. And I'm not saying me, but that's what they would say. That stuff was good. And we need to do that again because there's lots of pagans out there and they're marching all over the place and they're gaining lots of ground.

And we've got to put a stop to that somehow. That's it. That's it. So no need for the division. There's none.

I self-professed. They want me to debate this guy, debate that guy. They're not even Christians.

Why? The reason why is because you're taking your interpretation of the history saying there really is no other valid interpretation and then using it to say those people may not even be Christians. They might not even understand the gospel.

They're ostensibly reformed. That's the reason why they want you to debate these guys on the history because you're taking that and saying,.

Well, that is now definitional. I'm presenting a Christian perspective. You guys are Christians and you're ignoring the Christian perspective. You want to refute me? Open your Bible up and come at me.

You can't. And you know it. Well, because the reason why we're not going to do that.

And he obviously very frustrated. Come at me. I said, come at me in a tweet the other day, just kind of like, you know, it's a meme now. And someone said, grow up. And I'm like, yeah, exactly. Grow up.

Open up your Bible and come at me. Well, when we open up the Bible, we are not going to see the the interpretation of the history of how things shook out and what actually stopped Islam and what and you know, all this kind of stuff.

We're not going to see a come from on high interpretation of that. So that's not what we're going to do. The stuff that we'll find in the Bible, we already agree with you on for the most part. We already agree with you on on the gospel and how somebody gets saved and what's required and all that kind of stuff.

We already, you know, can do that from the Bible. Why plenary indulgences or no bueno? Like, that's the stuff that you're so concerned with. But we already agree. We already agree. So nobody is going to open up their Bible and come at you on that stuff.

And it does you no good to get frustrated over it because we're not going to do that. We can't and we won't because there's no reason to. We agree with you. We can't and we won't. You're right on that one.

That's the first time you've been right here. We can't and we won't because we have no desire to. That's not the issue. That's not where we disagree with you. So why would we try to do that? You throw this challenge out there as if it's meaningful.

It's not meaningful. It's not meaningful. It doesn't prove anything. We won't open up our Bible to refute you on indulgences, obviously. We won't open up the Bible to say that the power of God unto salvation is not the sword because there's no reason to.

We already agree. We're reformed. No matter how many times you want to pretend like we're ostensibly reformed, we're actually reformed. So no, we're not going to do that because there's no reason to. That's not the debate.

Now I know you want to connect those and say you have to talk about both together. Okay, we can talk about both together, but we could also tease these things apart and say we're grateful to God because this is what I've said before.

I've said this many times. I'm grateful to God for the wars over the nature of Christ. It doesn't mean that they were right in themselves, but I'm grateful to God for them because He chose to utilize some of that stuff to spread Christianity, to spread the truth.

I'm grateful for the slave trade. Not that it was good in itself, but God used that to save many people. We understand that. We get it.

We get it. Just ignore all of it. It's astonishing to me. We're not ignoring it. What's astonishing.

Is the fact that you don't understand what we're saying. We agree with you on that. We're not ignoring it. We agree with you that plenary indulgences are no bueno. We agree. I've been through the whole thing.

How many times have we said this? We already agree. There's nothing astonishing about it. We're all reformed just like you. So we agree. It's astonishing to me.

I don't get it. Got that right. I really, really don't. You got that right. But I've lost my mind.

This is a pastor. This is a pastor, and he told you why he felt like you lost your mind. Now, again, maybe he shouldn't have said it that way, but he told you where he thinks you lost your mind, and it had nothing to do with the stuff that you're now challenging him, come at me.

Nothing to do with it. He told you where he thought he lost your mind. He's listening to you. You're not listening to him. That's the facts. When I saw the tweet, and he said, James White has lost his mind here, I already interpreted it a certain way without reading any further.

And then you read further, and he tells you exactly what he thinks you lost your mind about, and it's exactly how I interpreted it. You're not listening as you're saying. No, you're not listening. I'll say it again.

We agree with you on plenary indulgences. We agree with you on the power of God unto salvation. We agree with you on the Pope. We agree with you on the whole Roman system. We agree with you. And so does Joseph Spurgeon.

So does Pastor Joseph Spurgeon, reformed pastor. He disagrees with you on your interpretation of the history and how it affected things. That's where he disagrees. So are you going to listen? That's the thing.

Are you going to actually engage that? Or are you going to continue to pretend like these men are ostensibly reformed? Are you going to continue to pretend that they don't agree with you on the gospel, and they're a little light on that?

Or maybe they just don't understand, or maybe they're not really reformed, or all those things. You can keep doing that. It just doesn't do you any good. It doesn't do you any good. After everything I just said, which was completely.

Non-controversial. Only a few years ago, if I'd said what I said in that tweet 10 years ago, everybody would have been like, ho-hum, boy, this dividing line is really boring. No one would have given a second thought.

Now all of a sudden, I'm insane.

I don't think you're insane, Dr. White. I don't at all. I think that you're quite insane. But I don't think you're listening. I've heard you say this many times about Armenians and a few other groups, what was it called?

The middle-knowledge people, the Molinists. You've said this many times about people that debate you, where they don't even bother, atheists. They don't even bother to look you up beforehand, because they just assume assume that you have nothing meaningful to say.

I've heard you lament this numerous times, and I cannot help but think that that's exactly what you've done here with a guy like Joseph Spurgeon. Before you fired up the camera, it's as if, I'm not saying you did this, but it feels like you just assume he has nothing meaningful to say.

Everything is in question. Everything. He may not even be a Christian. He claims to be a pastor. You do this a lot. In fact, I re-listened to your response to the lone bulwark tweet just today. Stephen Wolf claims to be a Christian.

It's as if he has nothing meaningful to say. That's how you treat these kinds of discussions. It makes people sad. That's why you're getting the mean responses. I'm never going to listen to James White again.

You're getting that because people are wondering what happened. I've seen this before. We've seen this before. I'll never forget this for my whole life. The response that I got when I started criticizing Russell Moore and Matt Chandler and all that stuff.

I had some people that responded, how dare you? How dare you criticize him? Who are you? Then I had some people that responded with sadness and then some people with anger. I'm never going to listen to him again.

I get it. I get it. I don't think you're at that level. I'm not saying you're at that level, but I've seen these responses before. I understand them.

Not based is what I'm hearing from a lot of folks. You're not based. It's like, what is going on? I don't get it. You don't. You really don't. I don't get it. You don't get it.

It's because you're not listening. That's it. I've decided I am going to do some responses to the direct dividing line about me. It does clarify that in this issue, you're just not listening. I don't know if you just refuse or if you don't know that you're doing it, but you're just not.

I'll say something and then you'll say something else, but it's as if I wasn't even talking. It's as if I wasn't even saying anything. It's quite amazing. It's quite amazing.

Western Europe, Immigration, and Muslim Persecution

If you're going to respond to what I'm saying with, well, look at what's happening in Western Europe. Western Europe's not a Christian nation, is it? This is the European Union? The Christian faith has been a small minority there for a long, long time.

Are you right? There's similarities and there's differences. There's similarities and there's differences. As with any comparison, there's going to be some similarities and some differences, but also a lot of these guys are very, commonly they'll say things like, they'll talk about cultural Christianity and the culture of things and how that it's not the same thing as being saved by the gospel, but there is a cultural aspect to it as well.

There's some similarities that we can draw, but there's also differences. There's similarities and there's also differences. We all get this. At least I thought we did.

Look, I know. Christians are being persecuted by Muslims around the world. I've talked about it for years. For years. But what's your response? Bomb them?

Well, I think the response has to be depending on the situation. The response in a place where there's packs of Muslims running through the streets and kidnapping women and stuff like that. It's the normal stuff.

No more protection. No more the police afraid to go there. The police afraid that they're going to look racist and stuff like that. You got to send them into those places and clean house. It's as simple as that.

The normal means of justice. The normal means. How about putting a stop to immigration until we can figure out what the heck is going on? How about that? Just ending all of it. All immigration, legal and illegal immigration.

Ending it all until we can sort out what's going on. How about stop importing more Muslims into your country? How about we could start there? I mean, there's lots of ways this could go, but that's not the point.

This is a common tactic too. It's like, you know, hey, you know, we got to do something about the rampant homosexuality in our nation and stuff like that. Okay, well, tell me your 10 point plan right now before I even believe you.

It's like, no, no, no. We actually, yeah, there's lots of things we can do. I don't have it figured out. I'm just a person. I'm just a random person on the internet. But we have to agree that there's a problem to be solved first.

And that's the stage we're at. We have to agree there's a problem to be solved. And that's the stage that we're at right now. We can't even agree on that. Give me your 10 point plan to do X. Otherwise, you know, get out of here.

Like, we can't even talk about this. Like, no, no, no. We're still at the very early stages here. We're at the early stages. And yes, eventually, you have to figure out what are you going to do about the illegals in the country?

It's you know, how logistically is that going to work? And I've already seen discussions about that kind of thing. How could that actually work? Right? How are we going to actually accomplish this? But you know, some might say it's even too early for that.

Well, I don't think it's necessarily too early for that myself. But I could see why we're still at the base level, where everyone thinks that immigration is good. We should have more immigration is just to be like, we can't agree.

Nuke them. Yeah, nuke them. That's, that's what we got to do. Well, you know, to solve the problem of the Muslims in England is you nuke them. I mean, come on. Come on, man. Like, like, seriously, like, can we can we be rational about this?

Can we who who? There's there's gonna be someone out there, of course, it says it. I know there's a lot of wackos out there. I get it. But who's saying that? Yeah, we got to nuke them. That's what we got to just nuke them.

Oh, man. Just a little respect. That's it. All you got to do to lower the temperature here is just a little respect. And I think, you know, and on my side, too, there's got to be there's got to be some, some respect brought to the conversation as well.

Because, you know, I've seen people say, Oh, you know, I guess James White, he must be like John Piper. He wouldn't defend his wife or something like that. It's like a little respect. I mean, the guy's right.

To me, that's the same error that James is making here about nuke them. But you just nuke them. And you're calling James a pacifist. You know, that doesn't make any sense either. You know, I mean, you shouldn't do that either.

But I don't expect randoms on the Internet to do that. I do expect James White to have a little bit more respect for guys like Joseph Spurgeon, a little bit. You know what I mean? I don't I have no expectations of random people on the Internet.

None. But with James, I do have some expectations. And that's why this is this is frustrating. That's why this is it makes you sad a little bit. I get it. I totally get it. Because you've seen him act so rationally so often.

And then when he doesn't on this issue and starts questioning the, you know, the Christianity of people that, you know, that are known, they're people that have a reputation. It's it kind of makes you think, hmm, what's going on here?

What's the idol that's being poked here? That's what it makes you think. That's what it makes you think. What's being poked here that has caused him to respond like this? So irrational on this on this issue.

What is the big deal? And I saw Joseph Spurgeon, actually, he kind of weighed in on that. Like, what could this be? And could it be his apologetics with the Muslims? I don't know. I don't know what it is.

I'm not going to make any determinations. I thought what Joseph said was interesting. But but, yeah, there's it makes you wonder what is going on. I think he's right on that. Are you Christians? Yes, we are.

We are no good Christians. Are you Christians? That's that he that he created, you know, whenever someone was burning straw men. Where's that at, man? You need to bring that one out.

What is the one power that's been given to the church? What's the one power that we've been given that can change hearts and minds and the courses of nation? It's the one thing.

You guys don't want to talk about anymore. No, we don't want to talk about it anymore, Dr. White. But it's not the conversation we're having right now. It's not the conversation we're having right now.

It's that's the that's the that's the that's the truth. It's not that we don't want to talk about it. It's that we already agree on that. And but yet there are still packs of marauding Muslims in England that still exists.

And so something needs to be done about that.

That's the point. That's the point. I actually had a guy saying, and don't say it's about the gospel. You're starting to sound like John Piper. Wow. Congratulations, John Piper. That's what he's.

Known for. Right. But the thing is, it all depends on the context. You know what I mean? You make that sound so bad and maybe it was, but I have no idea if that was an appropriate thing to say or not.

You know what I mean? It's as simple as that. It's as simple as that. Because I could see easily, very easily in Woke Wars One, someone saying the same thing you just said about, you know, I don't know, uh, you know, reparations or the transsexual story hour or whatever it is.

And, uh, we gotta, we gotta come up with a solution to that. And, you know, someone saying, well, what about the gospel? What about the gospel? Well, no, no, there's actually a justice issue here. There's perversion in the streets running rampant.

And the answer to every single question is not gospel. Sometimes there are other kinds of conversations. We're not asking how these trainees can get saved. We're asking, how do we stop them from coming after children?

That's what we're asking. And don't tell me the answer is the gospel because that's not the question. That's not the question. Sometimes the answer is not the gospel. That's Sunday school stuff, man. That's Sunday school level stuff.

And we all agreed on that five minutes ago. See, I can do this kind of thing too. I know, you know, this, this is the point. I know, you know this, Dr. White. I know you do because I learned it from you.

That's the thing. I learned this kind of stuff from you. You get the immigration question. You get the transsexual story hour question. You get all that stuff, but all because we don't agree with the history of the crusades.

Now, all of a sudden you sound like you don't get it. That's the, that's the problem we have here. That's the problem we have here. So I don't know if that guy said, don't tell me the answer is the gospel was wrong or not, because quite frankly, in this issue, I can't trust you to tell me the context there appropriately.

Maybe you're right. Maybe that guy was completely out the lunch. Maybe, maybe you asked a question. How do the Muslims get saved? And he says, don't tell me the answer to the gospel. Yeah, well, he's wrong.

He's out the lunch. He's a wacko, but maybe he was saying, well, what do we do to stop? You know, the Muslims from terrorizing our, our, our friends in Europe and Europe. What do we do about it? And don't tell me the answer is the gospel.

He's probably having a different conversation or I'm not going to say probably, maybe he was having a different conversation. It's frustrating. It is because you feel like you're not getting listened to.

And I know that we're not getting listened to. I just know.

Leading Muslims to Christ and the Limits of the Crusade Debate

And I'm just going to ask, I'm going to look at every single one of you. Real simple. Got it. When was the last time you led a Muslim to the Lord? So you want to know,.

You want to know? I'll tell you. I'll tell you. It's probably, let's see, eight years ago, something like that. Maybe eight years ago, living in New York, told these stories many times. I worked very closely with a handful of Muslims and your book, Dr. James White was so helpful to me, so helpful to me.

And it's, it still would be if I knew any Muslims, but I don't. And I know you, you know, in your response to me, you said, well, what about your cab driver? I don't, I don't take cabs. I don't, I don't take Ubers.

You know what I mean? I don't have any contact with Muslims whatsoever. If I, if I did come across a Muslim, of course I'd be leading them to the Lord, but I don't. And it's been eight years and none of this has even one single thing to do with this conversation about the Crusades, not one.

So you can brag all day long about the hundreds of Muslims you've led to the Lord. And you can try to shame the people who disagree with you on the Crusades, that they don't lead anyone to the Lord. It doesn't make an ounce of difference in the conversation regarding the Crusades, in the conversation regarding Muslim criminal elements in Europe.

Has nothing to do.

With it. Nothing. Do you even know how to? Do you even know how to? Do you even know enough to even begin the conversation? The vast majority of you are afraid to even try. You are, and you know it, and you're mad at me for pointing it out to you.

You know what? If I'm still alive 10 years from now, a bunch of you, as you mature, are going to come up to me and go, oh my goodness, I am so sorry what I said about you. That's what's going to happen, Lord willing, if not in gulags by then.

Dr. White, I've got one more piece of advice for you here. One more piece. No more blackmailing. I don't want to hear any more about these gulags. I don't want to hear about the boot that's allegedly going to be stamping on my neck.

I don't want to hear about it. No more blackmailing. Not around here. Not around this channel. We don't talk like that around here. If I end up in a gulag, that would be sad, but I don't operate in that kind of a way.

I think he's right, though. I think there's some people that will apologize to him about the way they've treated him. I've seen what he's seen. I've seen the people, you know, throwing him into outer darkness and all that kind of stuff.

I've seen it. I've seen it, and I think some of them will apologize. This is all a distraction, of course. It has nothing to do with the issues, but I've seen it.

He's right. He's absolutely right. I am truly left astonished when Christian ministers in our day are literally saying the Crusades didn't go far enough. I don't even know what to say. When I look at what's happening in the world, and I look at what's happening in the church, I just go, there is a spirit of stupor, even in the church itself.

You know, 20 years ago, all of us would get together in the few conferences we had, and we'd just get along, because we had the same focus.

Changing Priorities in the Church and the Need for Cooperation

I was going to stop it after that last comment I made, but I'm glad I didn't, because yeah, I mean, he's right. We would have all got along. We would have all gone to these conferences, and we would have had the same focus, and we would have gotten along.

Things have changed. That's for sure. Things have changed, and I know Aaron Wren. Is it Aaron Wren? Man, I wish I knew the name. I'm terrible at names, but he's, you know, the negative world, positive world, and kind of the transition.

We've transitioned into negative world in the last 20 years, so things have changed, and so I think that some of the focus has changed, necessarily. I don't think that's a bad thing, and I think that a lot of people, a lot of different groups, have kind of come to the same conclusion that the church has failed over the last few decades.

Abject failure. We have, you know, as much abortion as we do. We have as much trannies as we have. We have all these issues, all these big problems, you know, the DEI stuff, all this stuff, and a lot of people want to put that at the feet of the church because of their failure, and, you know, I'm not going to say I'm on board with that 100%, but I get their arguments, and I think I'm on board most of the way, so it sounds like things, some things have to change.

Some of our focuses have to change. It doesn't mean we abandon the gospel. It doesn't mean that we abandon our first love, but we also have to consider how we operate in the culture, how we operate in the public square, and there's things there that have to change, and that will change, and that are currently changing, and it's necessary, so you can lament about the old days, and how they were, and how they were better, but they weren't better because the old days led us to today.

The old days led us to the situation we find ourselves in today, and it doesn't do us any good to just daydream about how things used to be. We're here today. We've got work to do today, and we've got to win.

We've got to win, and so, yeah, things have changed, and right now, we're not getting along the way we used to, but it doesn't have to be that way. It doesn't. We could still go to the same conference.

We could still speak on the same stage as Dr. Stephen Wolf. Even if we don't see eye to eye, we can still have fraternal relations where we're not casting them into outer darkness, and the white and ethno-nationalists, and those full-blown racists that support what Stephen's saying, like, we don't have to do that.

I'm not saying my side here is perfect, but we are good at this, where we would have probably, you could probably not find a single person on our side that wouldn't share the stage with you, that wouldn't share the stage with Jeff Durbin, that wouldn't share the stage with, you know, whoever.

I don't know that you'd find a single one of us that would act that way, and so, if you're lamenting division, there's plenty of blame to go around, but I would suggest those on this side of the debate, I'm not speaking just to James White, but you're included in this as well.

The G3 guys, all of these guys, some of these guys I've counted friends, and some of them I still count friends. Take a good look in the mirror. If you're lamenting division, take a good look in the mirror.

There's plenty of blame to go around. There's blame for me, you know, I relist, like I said, I relistened to the Lone Bulwark episode where he talks about me and the clown shoes meme and stuff like that.

That was a good one. I didn't make the meme, but it was a good one. And so, sure, you know, I can understand that that doesn't lower the temperature. I get that, and I have to own that and all of that.

I can't say that I would do it any differently if I could do it again. Maybe I would, maybe I wouldn't. It's hard to put myself back in that mindset, but that didn't do anything to lower the temperature.

I totally own that. I agree. But when it gets to the level where you won't share a stage with that man, like it reaches a whole, you worry about division, worry about your own side's division. That's not to say we're innocent, but we don't do that.

That's something we don't go and do. And so, yeah, things have changed. I think it's necessary that they do, but here's the thing. We all have to decide. We all have to decide because this is a time right now, and I've heard Michael Foster talk about this.

I've heard a lot of people talk about this. This is kind of a tumultuous time in our small circles, our small reform circles. This is a tumultuous time. So, you've got to make a decision right now, and I would suggest making it right now.

Am I going to bend over backwards to work with people that I don't see eye to eye on, but we're pretty much, you know, we've got similar goals. We've got a lot of the same goals. Maybe some of the ways of doing it aren't quite the same and stuff like that.

Am I going to bend over backwards to work together with those people, to refuse to let this divide me? That's within your power, as much as it depends on you. I've got abolitionists on Twitter. What's that guy's name?

Ethan? Not Ethan. Yeah, maybe Ethan. There's a few of them, you know what I mean? And Ben and Russell and, you know, some of these people. And then there's Lizzie Marbach and stuff like that. Some of these people, like, and not all of them do I like very much, you know what I mean?

Not that group that I just mentioned, but I like you guys. You know what I mean? Don't get any ideas. Don't get any ideas. But I've made, like, I've made this decision that whenever they post cringe, in my opinion, it's cringe, I'm going to respond.

If I choose to respond to it in disagreement or disapproval, I'm going to do it in a way that I'm pretty sure Ben Zizloff knows that, like, I'm with him. I'm with him. I want his goals to succeed. And I completely disagree with some of his strategy.

I do completely. But I've made the decision I am committed to. I'm not going to divide over that. I'm committed. Now, he, of course, he has to play a ball, too. Of course, he has to be committed to work with me.

It's a two way street, of course. But do your part. Do your part. It doesn't have to, just because we disagree, we don't have to, Stephen Wolf called me a moron. Like, I, like, listen. Okay. You don't have to like him.

But I think we could do a lot better. All of us can do a lot better. I've been on this earth for 42 years, just about. And one of the things that I've learned in 42 years is that working together with people that you don't see eye to eye on with everything is a superpower.

You will accomplish so much more if you're able to work with people that maybe aren't your cup of tea. And honestly, in my life, I've discovered that a lot of times when there's people that aren't my cup of tea, and I do end up working with them, and, you know, I'm committed to doing it, committed to not, you know, getting all frustrated and, you know, we'll still argue and stuff, but like, you know, we'll work together.

What I've learned is that, you know, they're really not so bad. After you get, sometimes they are, sometimes they are. Sometimes they're not. Sometimes they're not. And it's like, yeah, things have changed, Dr. White, things have.

But if you're, if you're, if you're, if you're upset or worried or concerned or anything about this division, like, take a look in the mirror and make sure, I'm not saying you're not, but it doesn't seem like you are, but make sure you're doing everything in your power, bending over backwards, to at least show some respect to these guys that you've got massive agreements with, and you've got some substantial disagreements with, but pretty much you've got the same.

Goals when you think about it. And I'll just say to you, just really honest, I can document the fact I haven't changed, but you all have, and you're demanding that, well, you got to change because you're, you're just, you're not encouraging young men.