Acts pt 3- Laborers' Podcast

Welcome to the Laborer's Podcast. Thank you for joining us tonight. We're going to be discussing Acts Part 3.

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Now, let's join our laborers for tonight's broadcast.

Welcome again to the Laborer's Podcast. Thank you for joining us. We so appreciate it. We appreciate your prayers. Appreciate your support. And it looks like Facebook has done it to us again. We are not streaming on Facebook.

But we are on Rumble. We're Rumble and YouTube and X. I saw somebody call it Twix the other day.

So are you guys calling it X? I'm calling it Twitter because apparently I'm the anarchist in the group.

What's the proper etiquette? I don't know. Call it 10. 10? 10. Number 10. We're on 10, okay? We're on 10. I'm thankful to be joined by Big John. Real talk with Big John. Tyler Ngo with Bread of the Word Podcast.

Tyler just had as a guest The Reformed Rican, Jay Antella. Is that correct? Yes, I did. How did that go?

It was fun. You can tell I'm a little nervous because I don't have guests very often on the show. I'm a little bit out of my wheelhouse there, but it was great to sit down and talk with Jay about the church.

Specifically addressing some concerns about when the church gets too big and how sometimes we can miss the point when things get too big. And just discussing what the church is so that we have a baseline for navigating some of the challenges that come with growth.

I'm going to watch the podcast before I ask any questions because I could be asking questions that you answer in the podcast. So I want to get to that. Big John has been doing some podcasts on the church as well.

So I'd encourage you to go listen to his podcast and his guest, Preaching and the Church.

Thank you. Yeah, we're trying to discuss. See, in the more Reformed world, you can go to a myriad of places and hear really good Bible teaching and get the history of your denomination or your confessionalism or whatever.

Whatever it is that's inside of you, if you're Presbyterian or Baptist or Reformed or Southern Baptist or whatever the whatever denomination you're in, there's going to be somebody out there. And there's not a lot of that in our Pentecostal world.

And, you know, we need to we need to have more to offer than a really cool band.

Absolutely. And well, and I just want to publicly commend and say how grateful I am for the friendship, the brotherhood that I have with all my fellow laborers. But John specifically, the encounter that we had recently, because I listened to a particular episode that he did, I had some questions about it.

I responded to him privately and he was so gracious to me in response to me and what I had to say. So I really wish that so many other believers could experience what we experienced, the difference that we have, but the grace that we have when we share with one another.

It's just it's a supernatural work the Holy Spirit does within us. And it I know, Tyler, you talk about it quite a bit or you used to all the animosity that sometimes on Twitter, sometimes on Facebook and these conversations.

And it seemed to be very difficult.

Well, that's actually why I brought Jay on the show yesterday because of some of the animosity on social media, because he had posted something and it was apparently very divisive. And I was wrecking my brain, my brain, trying to figure out why.

And what he's invited me to come again on his his program, because it seems like I did the same thing and I caused a bit of a stir. So he wanted to have me on to give some clarification. So once again, just brothers doing what brothers do.

And I'm grateful for it.

One of the things that isn't talked about a lot outside of this circle, like I've been watching your your 10 part series on cessationism. Right now, publicly, we disagree on this on this topic. Right.

Right. However, it's it's my conviction that if your study of scripture leads you where you are, I think that that's where you're supposed to be. I don't. I don't expect everybody to think the exact same.

And barring there being a heretical worldview on either end of the spectrum. Right. I don't see why two people can't agree. And I listen to a lot of debates that I can't. I want to really root for the guy that's always on my side.

But one of the things that I can't stand is whenever it becomes something that I don't see the love of Christ in. Even when you're right, if you're right, but you're still hateful when you're right. What's it do you?

What good does it do you? They're not listening. At the end of the day, you've proved your point. And nobody had had a rebuttal that you couldn't beat. And both of you went home mad at one another. See, that's to me, that's pointless.

At least that's for nothing.

Did you really win? No, you didn't win. Nobody won. Right. I guess the devil won. Gotcha. Yeah. So before we jump into Acts and let me let me play. Amen, brother. Me being from a Pentecostal Spanish church.

God, I love fellowship with my fellow Pentecostal brothers and sisters. So glad to have the Reformed bringing with us again. Thank you so much, brother. And that reminds me, the comment lines are open.

I'm not there yet. Thank you, John, for filling in for me and popping that up. But the comment lines are open. We'd love to hear from you. If you want to interact with us while we're having this discussion, questions about acts or anything else concerning the church or our difference that we have, we would love to talk to you and we appreciate you so much.

But I do want to talk about our conference and play this this little clip, 30 second clip concerning our conference, because there's 75 seats. It's going to be a Reformed Baptist Church in Knoxville, Tennessee.

And so we would love to see you in the last weekend in April. 2024 Reformed Baptist Church. And here's a little 30 second clip. I think has some bass in it. I must have put the volume way up when I made that video, because I had to quickly turn my volume down.

So now I'm to the comments. And please leave us a comment. At least let us know you're watching. Say hello. We'd love to love to hear from you. All right. So acts and we are in chapter nine. What what I've done is I have went and made some questions from each chapter.

This is just giving a summary of the book. I took some questions from each chapter. And you can go back and look at X part one, part two. And we are currently in part three, starting in chapter nine. So we are at Saul or Saul's conversion.

Question is what what is God doing concerning the gospel and the conversion of Saul?

Well, right off the bat, I was thinking about the significance of his name, Paul. I mean, Saul. I'm sorry. My church is working through first Samuel right now, verse by verse, and we've been working through the the kingship of Saul last couple of weeks.

And it's it's interesting to me. That God chose Saul to be an apostle of God when his namesake was rejected by God. In the Old Testament for disobedience, but it's all in his disobedience was called by God here.

And set apart as an apostle. I just think that's beautiful.

Yeah, it is. You guys may have come across this before, but you're talking about name change. I know it happened. We read about it in scripture. There's name changes. And we know that, you know, there's significance in people's names meant something.

But I'm just curious. And this may this may be something I need to look into a little bit more. But but how common was that? Did it did it happen for everyone? You know, not everyone's name changed at conversion or, you know, turning to Christ.

That's just an interesting, intriguing topic. I think I'd like to dive into one day.

I've wondered about it. Like with Saul, I had read that in the Greek that now I will put title on the spot. If I heard wrong, I trust you'll straighten me out from everybody. That Saul changing his name to Paul had to do with the way that Saul is said in Greek is similar to.

Oh, the way a prostitute walked, the name, the way you use the name is like strut or something like that. It's it's nearly vulgar in Greek and he'd change his name if that's true. And I can't give you the link where I read that.

But if that if that's true, I think that it is wildly. I mean, it's awesome, really, since he was the apostle to the Gentiles, that he changed his name so that that he was more likely to be heard when he went somewhere as opposed to.

I mean, you wouldn't I mean, could you imagine a flyer that had somebody's name on it that was that was crude or vulgar? You wouldn't take your kids to listen to that man speak.

Let's go see Pastor Wounded Lover.

Yeah, yeah, it sounds like. Yeah, I'm not going to say that. I wouldn't never mind. Let's just move that on. I shouldn't have brought that up.

But but if that is that true, Tyler, I'm pulling up like us right now because you've piqued my curiosity. I just threw out Wounded Lover because it was humorous.

Oh, OK. Oh, mercy.

One of the significance that I see as far as the gospel is concerned is that. My page got turned, the Lord is saying in verse 15 to bear my name before the Gentiles and kings and the sons of Israel. So this going to the Gentiles is significant.

I mean, this this concept of me, it was it was in scriptures in the Old Testament and the New Testament. Yeah, that all nations will be blessed in Abraham. But it's just it was one of those concepts that they that was not registering, that they did not get.

And and and the Lord is telling them, this is my man and he's going to the Gentiles. And so that's significant to me that it is being reiterated, that it's being pointed out. This is this is for all the nations.

And it's also interesting here that he says kings as well. And it just makes me think about how how afraid we are. I think a lot of it has to do with 501 C three.

Yeah. You're OK. I heard something.

We're so afraid. But but the Lord had his men speak to kings.

That's right. I love to hear somebody say, I ain't careful to answer you in this manner. King, I'm not I'm not bad, but it ain't going to be this statue right here. You go jump that river out there, old son.

You know, that kind of that kind of brazen boldness. You know, when when God when God answered prayers, you know, but yeah.

Did you find anything, Tyler? Go ahead. Go ahead. I'm still looking.

So so I don't know that this is going to answer this part of the question. So if I'm if I'm not, you know, stop me. Is there any symbolism in Saul's conversion? Well, obviously, there's the fact that Saul is the one who's noted in Act seven for being the one who holds the jackets of those who stone the first martyr, Stephen.

Then he's got he's got his orders to persecute the church, which he did more zealously than anybody else, according to his own testimony. But the way Jesus confronts him, right. This whole thing falling to the ground, he heard a voice from heaven saying, Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting me?

He says, who are you, Lord? He he answers his question as he's asking it, isn't he? And and the fact that I've always took I've always took peace in this when you're persecuted. For Jesus's sake, he is the one who views it as being is taking the persecution.

I mean, like this. If if something happens in this house, I'm responsible for fixing it. This is my house. Whether I do it or not, I've got to fix it. Right. That's biblical. Whenever somebody come against the Lord's house, it was a direct attack on the Lord.

That's the way he viewed it. Why are you doing this to me? He didn't say, why are you doing this to my children? Why are you doing this to me? And the fact that the king of glory would take that so personal has given me more peace.

Knowing that if and if and the day comes, whenever I'm persecuted for Jesus's sake, that I'm not going to be alone. That it's going to be them doing it to him.

Yeah, well, it fits right along with the concept in the New Testament that we are his temple and he dwells within us. So therefore, if it's done to to his his children, it's done to him.

So the Greek word for Saul. All right, here we go. Here we go. Is actually a the Greek equivalent of a Hebrew word, meaning the one asked for.

Hmm. So that was wrong. I was told incorrectly or I read incorrectly. Maybe I just read it wrong.

Now, I don't have the resources to go as deep into the names. Yes, I have the pretty basic Logos stuff here. So I'm sure there's added nuance that I just don't have access to. But it looks like Saul means the one asked for.

I can't find anything on what Paul means. But but it is interesting nonetheless.

One of the one of the symbolism symbolisms that I see in chapter nine is here. The Lord is using a physical again to to give a spiritual reality. Saul is blinded and you have to be blinded to be persecuting like Jesus.

We persecuting his believers. Only a blind person could do that. And here he has been made blind to show his spiritual blindness.

Mm hmm. And then parallels with Christ referring to the Pharisees as blind guides.

Mm hmm. Yeah. Yeah.

The the the uber religious crowd with absolutely no relationship with God whatsoever, that zealous to keep their own practices and their own say their own power, their own political persuasion. Every time everything I read in the New Testament about the Pharisees, very few exceptions is more to do with them obtaining and holding some power over their countrymen and not wanting to lose any more ground with Rome than it does about pleasing God whatsoever.

Mm hmm. You know, it's just over and over again. If we do this, then we'll we'll be they'll take our temple from us. If we do, you know, if this Jesus of Nazareth don't stop doing what he's doing, it's going to cause us trouble.

Is it not better for one man to die for all of us that we can live? You know, let's let's get rid of this one guy who's causing trouble everywhere he goes. And that. Yeah.

Well, you can see how that's that's in to me and every man that just no matter the situation, the circumstance that that principle holds true in every man, we can have a form of godliness. We can, you know, put on a display.

But but in our hearts, you know, we're far from him.

Yeah, that's true. That's true.

Saul’s Conversion and God’s Mission to the Gentiles

Acts chapter 10. Explain Peter's vision.

Does anybody want to talk about Dorcas before we leave Acts chapter nine? Because that's an awesome name. If you got if you got something to say. No, no, no. I just I just I just I would say I would like to say something about Ananias.

Before before we moved on. One of the things that I would that I would encourage everybody is to is to be obedient to God, regardless of your own personal feelings towards someone. Ananias was clearly given the command of God to go pray for this man.

Right. And he didn't want to. And logic would have said Ananias is right. Why would I go over here if he gets his eyesight back? He's just going to go right back to terrorizing the church. But in the end, God knew best.

Right. And it's not us to know. We're not to lean on our own understandings. We're going to be obedient to God. Let God be responsible for everything else. And Ananias gets no credit in the church. From far as I can see, there's never any sermons on on the.

The. You know, the subject of Ananias is surrender to Christ and to surrender to God's will and opposed to his own. And as a Gentile born believer, I'm thankful for men like Ananias and Paul.

Well, he was he was in a fearful circumstance himself. He even says to the Lord, many have told me about how he harmed your saints in Jerusalem. And then here you want me to minister to him, bring him in my home?

Yeah. But now, is that not what Jesus has said for us to do in Matthew? To love those that hate you, to pray for them, to despitefully use you. I mean, it's not like he's like, hey, remember, it was a time we was on that big old tall mountain.

And I was talking all kinds of stuff and y 'all were writing this down like crazy because you never heard anything like it. Yeah, I was talking about this kind of thing. So, you know, this in the world we live in, the those that are against us are typically against us in a hate field.

War raging manner. You think about the the pro abortion movement and how much they hate the abolitionist movement. You think about the the homosexual agenda and how they despise Christians standing up for biblical tenets of marriage.

And they want you to call it traditional, not biblical. Right. And it's they they want you dead. You understand. And we're not to we're not to come at them that way. We're we're actually supposed to pray that God save them, that God give them repentance so that they can be made in right relationship with God.

That's not our our job is not to ask God to call fire down on. Yeah. And I think we see Ananias doing something that most of us would not been able to do if we're being honest.

Yeah. Yeah. Speaking of that, God condescended to us and said, hey, the the leader of Al Qaeda is going to be at this house in this town. He's a Christian now. I want you to talk to him. Oh, I just don't feel led.

Is that when God takes you by the hand? This is OK. Now, do you feel led?

Based on our conversation before we started, John, I think that may be when I start requesting an audible voice.

Won't he do it? You don't know. You don't know. OK. You were saying about chapter 10. I apologize. I didn't mean to get a sidetrack.

Well, I was also going to respond to it, to what you were talking about as far as. It's speaking to speaking to officials and using that terminology, traditional versus biblical. And our our objective, well, not objective, but our responsibility is to say thus saith the Lord.

That's right. But but then I've also I've been reflecting on this this past couple of weeks as well, that there's a balance in our approach. I mean, you're speaking to two people. Some may profess Christ, but, you know, are not acting like in their decision making.

And then some are just flat out, you know, not believers. And so they're blinded. They're going to behave like unbelievers. They're going to pursue. Pursue legislation, it's not God honoring. And so therefore, they're just behaving the way they're going to behave.

They're not going to hear. You know, you can go to them and say, you need to use this terminology because it's because it's more biblical. You need to submit to Christ. You need to submit to Christ. Yes.

And I totally agree with that. You know, I'm an abolitionist. I totally agree with that, that God has placed these people in their positions. God God puts leaders in their positions and that all men everywhere, kings to peasants are to submit to Christ because he is the king.

I agree with that. I believe in that. But as far as our approach goes, I think you're totally right about it's it's the gospel that's going to win. It is going to be his spirit who changes their heart because, you know, going in there full blaze, bull in a china shop.

It is not going to persuade them. That's right. Only a changed heart is going to persuade them. Only the gospel and the spirit is going to change them. So there's a I think there's a balance in that approach.

There's there's a standing firm and uncompromising position that we can have. But yet we can speak to them truth, you know, in love, full of the gospel. I agree. I agree. So on to Acts chapter 10 and Peter's vision.

I love this. So so explain Peter's vision. What happened there?

So in Peter's vision, he sees a blanket or a sheet with all manner of animals on it that were previously forbidden from any Jewish person to eat. And he was told in his vision to go kill and eat. Right.

And Peter says, no, I'm not going to do anything like that because I don't eat things that are common. I says, whatever I've cleaned, you don't call common. And for those who are watching that don't know what I'm talking about, there would have been a kosher dietary restriction that any Jewish person reading this would have understood that there are certain things they're not allowed to eat and go with their Ovidicus.

But among them have been like shrimp and pork. And when he sees these critters and he's told to go kill and eat it, his assumption, and I believe it's because he said he was hungry that he was thinking this way, but I might be wrong, was I can't do that because that's not Jewish enough.

But he had been summoned by God to go to an Italian man named Cornelius who had been praying and an angel visited Cornelius and told him to send a messenger to go get Simon Peter from Simon the Tanner's house, I believe.

I actually hadn't read Acts chapter 10 in preparation for this. I just turned to it. So how right am I? I think you're doing pretty good. So the most important thing about this, from my point of view, is that we see a Jewish man who is normally not permitted to go inside of a quote unquote Gentile home and sit with him, let alone preach the gospel of Jesus Christ to him, then be saved and baptized.

I mean, this is crazy. Now we're seeing the exact same thing happen in the upper room happened in Cornelius's house.

It goes back to what we were talking about in chapter nine. God said, I'm going to the Gentiles.

That's right. God said to do something and we're to do it. It's almost like he knows what he's talking about. I mean, it's kind of like I thought about this last night. I was speaking at high shows and right before I got up there to speak.

Something just as heavy as it could be laid on my heart was laid on my heart. I have to share this, but it's not in my notes and I don't like I don't like deviating from a plan. I just don't like doing that.

I might be one of the only Pentecostals who don't like doing that, but I don't like doing that. So I feel like I'm standing up there in my drawers now. Right. And I was like, I'm just going to read you something that was that was just burned into me whenever we were starting this service.

And I think it's appropriate. So I read it and I'm not going to say God told me to read this, but I felt compelled to read this. So I did. I think we need to be a people whenever the evidence points to this is something that God is pushing you to do.

You just do it and you don't apologize for what you just do it. Now, obviously, it's a little bit more strategic here with Peter, when after all, you have a voice, you have a vision and you have a voice giving you an understanding of the vision.

Right. But if we believe God's sovereign. We ought not to argue with him.

Right. Well, when looking at the purpose of the vision and what he was teaching, teaching Peter, this this hurdle, this threshold, he was trying to get Peter to come and go across so that Peter would know.

He wanted him to that he was bringing the Gentiles in, go to the Gentiles, take the message to the Gentiles. So to me, here we have, again, the Lord using a physical to teach a spiritual application. You know, here are these unclean animals.

So if I call them clean, you don't call them unclean. So here, once you're out of the vision, you're calling these Gentiles unclean. I'm bringing them in. I'm making them clean. And so what's the application as far as for us today?

We don't necessarily have the the Jew Gentile.

Oh, sure. Well, the Gentiles.

Specifically. But one says that to the pure, all things are pure and to the unbeliever, all things are impure. And well, that's not necessarily saying that if I go and live like a devil, that that's all good.

But rather, the things we do now, there's not this distinction between that's the God stuff and that's this over here. But everything we do is before the face of God, that if anything, the things we do matter more as people in Christ, because all of this before the face of God, all of it is open and exposed to him.

That to the pure, all things are pure, that simply put to the pure. It all flows from one from from one heart that we look at the things we do now with a new heart. Things we do through eternity.

What I was going to say, Robert, was that we we have the unbeliever and then we have the redeemed. And and what I would say to that is when you see when you see or the testimony of someone is that they've been born again.

We treat them like brothers or sisters immediately, don't we? They don't owe me an explanation for what God's forgiven them of. And this is this is really so simple. Yet yet it trips everybody up somewhere.

Everybody listening this right now has got somebody in their life that they're thinking about that they absolutely can't stand because they've done something to them that they feel is unforgivable. Right.

And truthfully. That's not yours to carry. You don't have the right to hold someone in unforgiveness because we've been forgiven so much. And if God will save them, how can we if God forgive them, how can we do anything less?

I mean, how can you how can you hold something at somebody? How can you hold a sin at somebody's charge that God don't go back to Acts chapter seven? What did what did what did Brother Stephen say? Lord, please don't hold this sin at their charge.

Please don't. You know, that's it's it's one of those things. That, you know, I say this not as a position of strength, but as a position of weakness, that there's that there's things that I have to crucify because these aggravations in my life that I'd rather not ever think about.

But the fact of the matter is, if God forgives them, I have to welcome them as family because they are. And that's whenever we have to put Christ first and we have to say this is really all about Jesus, not about me.

I can get over myself, I can rub some dirt on it and keep getting back up with him. Yeah. So that's that's our version, I think, today of the Jew Gentile complex. These Gentiles are no longer heathen.

They're believers. Peter's a believer. Now, if Paul would say it in Galatians, he said he's neither Jew nor Greek. There's neither free nor Roman or nor slave, male or female. We're in Christ or we're not in Christ.

Christ is in whom we find our identity in. Christ is in whom we recognize with either with him or against him.

I think we can fall into the ditch and I fought against this. I mean, I've not been bold about it and went after people, but in my own heart, you know, I've contemplated this, dwelt on this and fought against this in my own heart.

But I think in that in that same vein, there's another ditch that we can fall into when we're being we're being so accepting of people because we hold that truth to be real and to be God's truth that he is saving people of all nations, of all backgrounds, of all men everywhere.

Yeah. But those people that we we also accept because God is saving them, we we allow them to hold on to their niche. And here I go again, trying to try to be careful about what I say and correct me, please correct me if I'm wrong going off base here.

But just and it's not even sin. Like it could be somebody that's coming from a sinful lifestyle that God saves. You know, we a popular topic is a homosexual community. You know, yes, yes, we would welcome them, love them.

But you can't hold on to that, which God calls, you know, unnatural. That's one thing you let go. But I'm also thinking of things that are not simple. People who I can't think of all the names that they use, but people who dress in all black.

They come in. Well, your identity is not goth anymore. Your identity is Christ. Sure. I know what you're saying. Or you wear a cowboy hat and boots. Well, you may be a cowboy, but your identity now is Christ.

And so on and so forth. I don't think we should fall into the other ditch where we let them hold on to their niche, whatever it is, which is a good. That's what you're familiar with. That's what you know.

That's what your thing is. That's what your your job is. That's who God made you to be. But your identity now is Christ. So you put that on the back burner is what I'm trying to say. That's right. So if I'm hearing right.

Yeah, if I'm hearing right.

The way I approach the way I would approach that is if if God has saved someone, then the way that they dress will should at least naturally become something that is appropriate. Put this this way. The other day was up in the town of Newtown, North Carolina.

We served at a place called Corner Table. You ever heard of it? I have not. It's in downtown Newtown, not far from your church. OK. And it's a it's like a homeless shelter and they feed people like a restaurant.

They come in, sit down with you, take their, you know, take their order because there's only one thing good. But you wait on them, you bring the drinks, whatnot, and then you clean up after my leave. And they're not they're not in there like their charity cases.

They get to come in and sit down like regular grown adults. Right. So we were in there waiting tables and one of the guys that was with me, he he was making a statement or wanted to make a statement really bad.

He said when we were over with, there was somebody said something that made him mad. And this man, we're all wearing our work shirts because they want you to recognize that our company is doing something in the community.

So you have to wear a shirt that identifies you with my workplace, which I'm purposely not saying right for the sake of anyway. And he said, these colors on my shirt are the reason I didn't say what it was on my mind.

And when he said that, I thought, so your behavior was modified because of whom you represent. And because they would look down on a company that you work for. And in fact, maybe you may have complications with your employment.

It may be a career limiting move as far as that goes. If you say something too harmful to some of these folks, whenever whenever you're born again and you're Jesus Christ's own personal property and possession.

Then that's first. I wear boots because I think that they they're more practical than tennis shoes most of the time. At the same time, I don't I don't partake in the things that I used to partake in that I used to identify as.

Some people would say that the thing some of the things that I give up were silly and I didn't have to because they were all things are permissible once you're in Christ. But my problem was identified with them.

I just put to you like this and I don't mind saying it online. Right. So I was an alcoholic that used that used tobacco. Well, I smoked cigars, cigarettes, a dipped snuff. I was a real rough, tough cowboy redneck kind.

Right. And that's why we were supposed to be where I come from. Real men spit black. Right. You got a gun in your truck. You don't get messed with and you make sure you drink whiskey without nothing in it.

When Christ saved me, the last thing I want to be identified with is any of that nonsense. I want to be a Christian. And I want people to see me. I want them to see a representation of Christ on this earth.

Not not big, bad, John. One of the reasons I keep the big John thing is just kind of humor. Right. And as we should want them to see Christ in us, not us in us. That means that has to die. So if somebody is Gothic first and Christian second, they're not Christian at all.

If somebody is a cowboy first and a Christian second, they're not a Christian at all. That's just the way it is. I know that it's unpopular, but we've gotten too comfortable with not calling people out on things that are so easily called out on.

If you're a Christian first and you're Christian, indeed, if you're something else first, you're not a Christian indeed.

Right. I really like what you said about how based on who I represent, modifies my behavior towards somebody else. Absolutely. We represent Christ where he is and it modifies. It changes how I would act towards somebody in the flesh versus how I act towards them based on Christ.

And and this is this is my personal opinion. And it may be on a little rabbit trail, but this is my opinion. And it's not very popular in my denomination because my denomination seems like. Champion this this type of movement, and it used to be more popular than it is, I think.