Is Gambling Entertainment Or Sin? (part 2)

Bethlehem Bible Church

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Our Father in Heaven, we are in awe of how you have loved us, how before anything existed you set your affections on us, and nothing we do can change that.

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We thank you and praise you for that, and we thank you for the Lord Jesus Christ, who came to earth to live the perfect life we ought to live, died the sacrificial death, the horrible death that we deserve, and then was raised magnificently on the third day so that we might know that our sins are forgiven, full and free and forever.

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Father, we thank you for your Spirit, that he causes us to be born again, that he enables us to recognize the depth of our sin.

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Father, help us to live in light of Christ, filled with the

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Holy Spirit. Father, I pray that you bless our time this morning as we look to your word as we discover, or as we talk about a very significant subject, and one that is definitely contemporary, timely.

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Pray for these things in Jesus' name, amen. So, just in reading more about this subject of gambling,

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I see upwards of 22 million people either are addicted to gambling, are on the verge of being addicted to gambling, or are at risk of being addicted to gambling.

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And I thought, why so many people? I mean, that's like what? If that's 22 million people, and you can only gamble if you're an adult, and there are what?

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A couple hundred million adults, one out of ten adults, something like that, are either at risk or are addicted.

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And then I read 6 % of college kids have a problem with gambling.

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Why do you think that is? I mean, if we went back 100 years, would it be such a problem?

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So why is it such a problem now? Ease of access.

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Like I said, I was reading about it. In 41 of the 50 states, gambling online is legal.

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41 out of 50 states. That's quite a few. In light of the fact that if you listen to politicians for very long, they will tell you, whose side are they on?

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They're on the side of the people. They fight for the people. Who has the biggest interest in people gambling?

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The state, to some extent, because they get a lot of taxation out of it.

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Who else? The casinos, the online gambling companies, and banks.

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Why banks? When you gamble online, what are you gambling with?

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Credit card money. And if you think about it, because I was reading about this young woman, and she just got addicted, had that sensation of being addicted, whether it's an addiction or not,

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I can't say, but psychologists say it's very similar, because you get that buzz when you win, and you also get a little buzz when you lose.

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But she just described the need to gamble more and more.

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She eventually went to jail for stealing from the people that were invested with her.

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Psychologists describe this as being akin to kleptomania, the same kind of high as when people steal.

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And I found this one interesting. How about this one? Pyromania. The people who love setting things on fire have a similar kind of profile to those who love to gamble.

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But why do banks love this? Because of credit cards, yes. And if you think about it, it makes sense, because if you have to put money on the table, well, there might be some pain involved in that.

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I mean, if I thought about shoving $1 ,000, because she was betting $1 ,000 per hand on blackjack.

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Well, if you have to put $1 ,000 cash out there, I mean, even if you just think about chips, is it easier to bet chips or actual money?

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Chips, well, you could say, well, they're easier to move around, which is true. But it's also psychologically, it's a little bit easier.

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But boy, talk about easy. How about money that you don't even see? You know, your credit card.

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We've got a real problem in this country. I mean, other statistics. The number of people who are living paycheck to paycheck in this country is enormous.

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I think it's like 75%. Two -thirds of people can't even pay their bills on time.

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We've got real problems in this country. And then you go, okay, just what we need is something like online gambling.

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Really good. Really helpful. We talked last week about how, or two weeks ago, sorry.

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Last week I was suffering for the Lord in Florida. By the way, I just have to say one thing.

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Yeah, it was tough. One thing about it, you know, church at St.

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Andrews down there in Florida, because we were just a couple miles away from St. Andrews, we went there. It starts at 930.

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So we walk in the chapel at 922. And, you know, I'm like feeling pretty good.

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I'm like strolling on in, right? Except as soon as they open up the doors, we hear music.

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And I think, oh, maybe they're just, you know, warming up prior to that. Oh, no. The whole choir's there.

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And then somebody's reading scripture. This guy's up there reading scripture. I'm like, you know, looking at my watch and everything.

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We're not late. Well, I had to go to the restaurant. There's some guy with a name tag. And if he's got a name tag on, you figure he knows something, right?

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So I go, hey, are we late? And he goes, no, no, no.

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He goes, that's the prelude. Prelude? What's a prelude?

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But I just thought that was just, you know, different, weird. But, you know, it was nice to be down there and we got to,

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I mean, I've got to tell one more story. So Saturday morning, we walk in.

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We were there Friday evening, and we saw where Vesta Sproul, that's R .C.

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Sproul's widow, sat. And she was sitting with some teenage kids. I thought maybe those were her grandkids or whatever.

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So anyway, they're all sitting there. And the next morning, we walk in, and I go, where do you want to sit, Janet? And she walks over, and I go,

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I think that's where Vesta sat last night. And she goes, I don't know.

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You know, she sits down. And this woman comes in, and she's sitting next to her, and she sneezes. Well, it wasn't

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Vesta. She says, she goes, oh, I've got allergies. Sorry about that. You know, don't worry about me.

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I'm not sick. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. She says, I'm Anita. We talked to her for a couple minutes.

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And just before the service or the conference starts, in comes this other woman, and it's

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Vesta. And she sits next to Anita. Well, they turn out to be besties. And in fact,

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Anita's husband died last year, and he's buried next to R .C. Sproul. So we got to talk to both of them, and that was fun for us.

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But just our little thing there. I mean, it was a small conference.

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I thought it would be. There was probably like small, you know, 600 or so people there. But it was nice.

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It was fun. Anyway, getting back to where we were. Gambling. I said, Vesta, you ever gamble?

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She says, oh, I, you know, just give me the dice. No, she didn't. I'm making that up.

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Sorry, Vesta, wherever you are. Okay, so last week we talked about, or two weeks ago, we talked about how, and I don't mean to encourage anybody to gamble, obviously.

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But if a casino, and they do do this, they have like a margin. They make about 12 % profit.

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And by the way, you know, think about that for just a minute. I don't know if I said this two weeks ago or not, but if you could take your money and put it at the bank at 12 % interest, how many of us would take that deal?

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I would. I mean, Tommy, maybe not so much, because he's like, I make 30%, you know.

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12 % locked in. That's pretty good. And then

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I know I mentioned this. You know, people get so fired up when the lottery gets to be a billion dollars.

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Just keep in mind that the state keeps 50 % of everything that's wagered on the lottery. 50%.

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It's awful. Okay, we talked a little bit about investing is not gambling.

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And here's why Phil Johnson said that, by the way. He said that if a stock gains value, all investors earn money.

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Okay, it's true. When, you know, Apple goes up, everybody who owns

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Apple stock, all their money goes up. When it goes down, of course, everybody loses money. But the difference in gambling is the pie is fixed.

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Whatever everybody has put into the pot, that's the most that you can get. Whereas with stock, your money goes in, and over time, many stocks will increase in value.

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Sometimes they don't, right? Sometimes they go down. You know, I, several years ago, got out of the habit of doing my own investing, you know, meaning picking my own stocks.

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Sometimes I would do it and do, you know, very well. I won't even tell you some of the stocks

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I bought, but sometimes I'd look at them and I'd go, okay, this is just a stock that is going to go up, and they do.

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But sometimes you're just, you don't really know anything, and that's why I prefer to have a broker do it for me.

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So, other arguments against, or people say, well, you know, what's wrong with gambling?

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And they'll put forth this idea. What about this? When a farmer plants his crops, he's gambling.

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He doesn't know what the outcome will be. So, therefore, nobody should be a farmer if gambling's wrong.

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Yeah, I mean, even the worst farmer, which would probably be me if I was farming, even the worst farmer, if he plants seed, he's going to get something back.

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He's not going to lose everything. Plus, we don't know, you know, the price, even if, you know,

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I became a farmer and was struggling mightily to produce crops, the prices might be so high that I make money anyway, right?

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And you could say, well, that could be so low, but there's going to be some value, whereas the only value when you're gambling, the only value is in taking other people's money, to be frank.

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That's it. In fact, Phil Johnson says, in gambling, existing wealth merely changes hands.

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And that's true. I don't care if it's the lottery. You know, well, the state pays the lottery. False. The casino pays my winnings.

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False. You know, there's no Mr. Casino who just writes out the checks. There's somebody who owns the casino who writes out the check, but they've taken the money from someone else.

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Okay. So, again, you know, the idea of stocks, blah, blah, blah, blah.

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We won't go through that, but let's look at what I have is question number four, true or false. Gambling represents poor stewardship of one's resources.

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Gambling represents poor stewardship of one's resources. I'm going to have to say, as I think about that, true.

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Well, how could it be good? Good stewardship. I'm just going to push it in here and see what happens. And you can say, well,

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I count cards. I do this. I do that. I do whatever. Good for you. So, you know,

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I mean, the casinos will tell you that it's cheating, which I find kind of funny. When an establishment that has rigged the game, so to speak, because they have to the extent that they can guarantee themselves 12 % profit, when they say, hey, you're not being fair, what are they really saying?

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Yeah, you're taking our money or, well, yeah, you're changing the odds. You're tilting them slightly in your favor.

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How dare you? You know, we want our 12%. So, yeah, bad.

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But Johnson says, gambling places something valuable at risk for an illegitimate purpose.

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This violates the most basic biblical principles of wise and faithful stewardship. He says it's a sin to covet anything that belongs to your neighbor.

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This is not a gray area, right? If you if we said, you know,

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I really want Cheryl's brand new Lamborghini. You'd be like, well, sorry,

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Cheryl. You know, Cheryl, Brian saved their pennies and bought a

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Lamborghini. Well, good for them. I'm not to envy. They're like, no, we wouldn't. No, I know.

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But I'm not to envy whatever it is that they've done. And it's no different than if if they put their money into the pot and I put my

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I want their money. That's what it is. It's their money. It's not neutral money. It's somebody's hard earned money.

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He goes on to say, gambling is covetousness distilled to its very essence. And there are people who claim that they gamble for only what?

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Entertainment. It's just fun. Harmless entertainment. It's not really.

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I don't think I confess this sin. But, you know, at one point a few years ago,

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I just I everybody seated. I don't want anybody to pass out. I did play online poker.

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However, there was no money involved. But you know what

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I found out? Because I've never really played poker in person. I've watched people play, but I've never

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I've never actually played. And here's what I found out when you're playing, because because they're just fake chips.

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Right. So you check in every couple of days and you get some money, some fake chips. And then you you know, you can you can gamble.

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And here's what I figured out. If there's no money on the line. Like zero.

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And it's all just fake chips or it could be potato chips or whatever. If there's no inherent value in it, guess what people do?

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What's that? They play stupid. I mean, really, really stupid.

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Like, you know, I'll have how many I've ever played. You know, don't don't confess.

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What's it? Texas Hold 'em. Seven cards, you know, and five are common and you've got two in the in that nobody else can see.

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Well, right off the bat, I remember, you know, like I'll get pocket aces and everybody shoving.

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And I'm like, oh, they must have something better than. Because people just bluff.

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So, you know, to just show you where I thought, OK, poker is absolute.

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I mean, there's some skill when you're sitting at the table. But online poker is this blind random chance because you can't read anybody.

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You can't do anything. So in one hand, and I've been doing this for a while.

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And so I had I had millions of chips because you get them super easy. Millions of chips. And I'm playing at a big table.

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I'm feeling pretty good about myself. And I get pocket queens.

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And then throughout the course of the hand, two more queens show up. I've got four queens. What do you think

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I did? I folded. No, I shoved all in. And guess what?

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I lost. Somebody had four aces. And I'm like, it's absolute random chance.

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There's no skill whatsoever. So I stopped playing. OK, true confessions.

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But, you know, anybody who thinks that they can control things and, you know, somehow come out ahead.

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You're kidding yourself because it's just random. Do you know? I mean, we see we see too many movie things where people are like, you know,

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I got him now. I don't know what to say other than, you know, movies generally speaking are not true.

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But Phil Johnson says, you know, it's covetousness, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. One person said this.

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He said, poker simply doesn't work without some money at stake. This is my point. The money at stake adds to the enjoyment of the game.

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Well, that part maybe, maybe not. But what happens when real money is on the line?

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Excuse me. Well, it kicks in something else. And that's greed.

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People say, well, having money at stake makes the game more fun. In fact, you'll hear that on the radio, on these advertisements.

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You want to really enjoy your NFL games? You've got to have something at stake.

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Is that true? I have a hard time enjoying my NFL games anyway.

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So especially when you're getting the third draft pick, what's that all about?

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With a loss. Well, and I think, you know, the things that people bet on, you know, who will score the first touchdown?

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How many yards will so -and -so throw for or catch or run? You know, will there be a safety?

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I mean, all these different things. You're just like, you might as well just say,

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I want to take some of my hard -earned money, roll two dice, and I'm going to bet snake eyes.

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Anybody know what the chances are of rolling snake eyes? You should know this.

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One in 12 is close, but it's not bad enough. We don't have enough degenerates in here.

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Actually, I only know this. Well, it's one out of six, right?

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But not plus one out of six, but times one out of six. So it's one out of 36.

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Now, when you think about that, you go, hmm, hmm, that's not very good.

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No, it's not. That's why, you know, I mean, if you, and why do

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I know this, by the way? It's not because of anything I studied for this. It's because I play games, and when you play games, you know, you learn real fast that there's a curve.

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Why is it that seven is the most common, you know, die roll?

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Why is that? Lots of ways to get it. One out of six. And by the way, a one out of six means six and one also works, right?

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Two and five, five and two, three and four, four and three. So now you've got six out of 36.

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One sixth chance of getting seven. Still not very good odds. I mean, if I told you you had a one in six chance of living, you'd go,

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I'm not going to do that, right? A lot of random luck.

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But when people say it's more fun if you have something on the line, no, it's just that they're just trying to entice you, and that's really what it is.

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All this radio, the advertisements and everything else, it's just an enticement to waste your money.

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There are several major factors in the evils that accompany gambling.

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If you practice that, you are cultivating the sin of covetousness, and that person will be especially susceptible to accompanying temptations, like slothfulness.

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I mean, imagine thinking that the way to get rich is by gambling.

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You just pack up and move to Vegas. Of course, these days you don't have to go to Vegas.

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You can get casinos all over the place. But the promise of easy wealth is an overt appeal to slothful desire.

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Proverbs 22 .16 says this, Whoever oppresses the poor to increase his own wealth or gives to the rich will only come to poverty.

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Whoever oppresses the poor to increase his own wealth or gives to the rich will only come to poverty.

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Phil says, this is an interesting verse. Most of us will instinctively understand that it is sinful to oppress the poor in order to increase our riches.

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But the verse also says you shouldn't give money to the rich. Well, who would give away their money to the rich?

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And the answer is what? People who gamble in casinos give it all the time.

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Numerous studies have shown that poor people tend to spend a much larger proportion of their income on gambling than people in the middle or upper income brackets.

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This is especially true with regard to the lottery. Why? Because it's your one chance of escaping poverty.

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That's the mentality. I mean, I'm not even going through all the stories of the people who won the lottery and then what happens to them?

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Many of them, it destroys them. I mean, I don't have family like this, but I can only imagine, many people say as soon as they win the lottery, everybody in their family wants money and all that kind of stuff.

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And if you listen to people when they talk about, you know, what advice would you give to somebody who wins the lottery?

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What do they say? Don't tell anyone. Hire a lawyer.

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Go off the grid. Great. Yeah, I want to do that.

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Cut everybody off. He says, meanwhile, those who are licensed to sponsor lotteries and casino games never lose.

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They gain enormous wealth by taking money off the top and by skewing the odds overwhelmingly in their favor.

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In other words, money won in state lotteries and other forms of gambling is money taken from the poor.

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And money lost in such wagers is money given to the rich. So both of the evils condemned in Proverbs 22, 16 are fostered by the machinery of gambling.

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And when I open up talking about how, you know, politicians say they're on your side.

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Well, who is it that's legalizing gambling everywhere? It's politicians. Why are they doing it?

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Because the banks, the casinos are pressuring them to do it.

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And again, as I said a couple of weeks ago, what do they say? They say, well, it's going to create jobs. Jobs that we can do without.

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The number of people who are being crushed by this kind of thing is enormous.

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Okay, number five, true or false? Gambling isn't very addictive. Well, I already gave that away.

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Phil Johnson says many studies indicate gambling is seriously addictive. And I talked about that, the endorphin rush that people get.

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It's a high. He says research suggests that one in every ten gamblers does so compulsively.

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The average compulsive gambler has debts exceeding $80 ,000.

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And when you start, you know, I won't ask. If you have credit card debt these days, it's a real problem.

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Because the interest rates are crazy. If you have a, you know, the first thing

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I would say, and this isn't about credit cards necessarily. This whole thing isn't about credit cards. But if you have a department store credit card, the best thing you can do for yourself is cut it up.

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I mean, those interest rates, because they're just allowed to do things that just seem insane to me.

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You know, like 25%, 30 % interest rates, insane.

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Johnson, back to gambling, he says it's a bigger problem than alcoholism. Suicide rate in Vegas, in Atlantic City, three times higher than the national average.

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Why? Because people get in debt, they lose hope, and they take their lives.

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Because they can't see any way out. Especially when you've got, you know, a couple of goons coming to break your legs for not paying your debts.

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Number six, true or false, gambling is a victimless because it's voluntary. This is the political argument, right?

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That nobody forces you to gamble. You choose to gamble. So therefore, there's no victim.

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Can you think of other crimes that people say are victimless crimes? Drug use.

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I'm sorry? Well, theft. There's always a victim in a theft, right? Yeah, victimless.

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You've got to clear your throat twice before you say that. Prostitution. Okay, is that true?

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No. Talk to the women involved or, these days, the men. The answer is no.

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Often, young women or young men who come from other countries, Phil says we could also talk about gambling's negative impact on philanthropy and charity for the poor.

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Why would he say that? Because if you're in debt, are you going to give to other people?

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The answer is no. Destructive consequences for marriage and family.

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Detrimental effect on society. I mean, it's hard for me to think of a reason to commend gambling.

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I can't because it's sinful, first of all, in my mind. But secondly, what good comes out of it?

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And if you tell me, well, I have a surefire scheme for making money.

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Okay, good for you. But like I said before, a couple weeks ago, take that surefire thing or plan and go to Vegas.

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See how you come out because you're not going to. What's funny, I was watching a TV show the other day.

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True confession, I do watch shows. And this person went to Vegas and they had a book on how to play blackjack and win.

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And eventually he like wound up so far in debt that somebody had to like pull him away from the table.

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And I thought that's pretty much he goes. But the book says this is going to happen and then I'm going to bounce back.

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I mean, how do you know that books on gambling are worthless? Well, because if they actually worked, then the casinos would be out of business and that's not going to happen.

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He asked this question, does mutual consent make gambling OK? And the answer is no. And he points to this.

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You know what else would have mutual consent? There are still places in the world where you can do this. Used to be able to do it in the

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United States. Duel. You could mutually duel. Now, it might have been legal.

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It might have been mutually agreed to. My question is, is dueling moral other than dueling banjos?

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It's murder. And you say, well, what's the difference between, you know, how can dueling be murder?

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But, you know, a police officer shooting a criminal isn't murder.

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Well, there's a vast difference. Speaking from experience, the police officer didn't think to himself, you know, today

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I'd like to go out and shoot somebody. But, on the other hand, if you're involved in a duel, you are mutually consenting.

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Well, you know what, if the guy kills me, that's OK. And if I kill him, that's OK. No, it's not OK. It's still murder.

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Gambling is stealing by mutual consent. Hey, is it OK with you if I steal some money?

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Sure. OK, it's still stealing. If you have a

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Bible, let's look at Ephesians 4 .28 for a moment. And this kind of is what

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I would say to, you know, somebody who's got a gambling problem.

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You know, Ephesians 1, 2, and 3 talks about, essentially, the work of God in bringing us to faith, in saving us, and all the blessings that are ours in Christ Jesus.

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And then Ephesians 4 through 6 says, OK, now that you're a Christian, now that you have all these blessings, now that Jesus Christ has died for you, his perfect life has paid the debt for you, you know, you've got now righteousness, you've got forgiveness of sins, how should you live?

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What kind of mindset should you have? And Ephesians 4 .28 says, Let the thief no longer steal, but rather let him labor, doing honest work with his own hands, so that he may have something to share with anyone in need.

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So if we substitute here, let the gambler no longer gamble. That would be right, because it is theft.

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But rather let him labor, doing honest work with his own hands, so that he may have something to share with anyone in need.

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Now that working with your own hands, I mean, of course, when Paul wrote this, we didn't have computers.

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So, you know, if you program for a living, if you manage a network, whatever you do,

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I'm not talking about that. Engage in honest labor, not in theft.

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I mean, that should be pretty obvious, right? Christians shouldn't be engaged in that. I probably mentioned this a couple weeks ago, but Phil is pretty plain here.

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He says, the question of whether penny ante gambling is a petty sin is quite different from the question of whether it is a sin at all.

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He says, if it's a matter of principle that makes gambling wrong, and not a particular amount, we ought to recognize that fact and acknowledge it.

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He says, I'm expressly arguing that gambling is wrong in principle. In other words, it's a sin on its face.

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But to be clear, I'm not arguing that all forms of gambling are equally egregious. If you're pushing, you know, the deed to the family farm into the middle, that's a lot different than if you're putting $2 in.

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He says, it should be fairly obvious that the size and seriousness of the wrong in a gambling contest is proportional to the amount gambling among other factors.

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He says, just in case it is not clear to someone, however, let me speak plainly, that I'm not trying to portray the guy who plays

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Texas Hold 'em for spare nickels as a miscreant on the same level as the guy who foolishly bets the family farm on the spin of a roulette wheel.

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Gambling, like any sin, is wrong by degrees. Thoughts, questions, concerns?

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Anybody want to confess their nickel poker? He's just saying, basically, that you don't, you know, we're not, he even said this,

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I think, somewhere else, maybe it's in here, but he said, basically, if you're engaged in something like that, we're not going to track you down and do church discipline on you.

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It's the guy who can't, you know, pry himself out of the casino, or the guy who, because of his gambling, is getting his family in difficulty.

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This is, you know, it's just like, are we going to go after the person who drinks half a glass of wine? No. Are we going to go after the person who, you know, had to get rid of the family car because couldn't afford the payments anymore and walks back and forth to work constantly drinking nips?

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Yes, that's the person who has an alcohol problem. $5 a week addiction to playing the lottery will feed an awful lot of covetous fantasies, he says, so, you know, it's still a sin, and it's not a good idea, but it's not on the same level as somebody who gambles more.

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He gives a list of some other scriptures here. Let's just read some of them.

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Ephesians 5, since we're already in Ephesians, Ephesians 5, verse 3, but sexual immorality and all impurity or covetousness must not even be named among you as is proper among saints.

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You ought not to be known as somebody who covets. Colossians 3, verse 5, put to death, therefore, what is earthly in you, sexual immorality, impurity, passion, evil desire and covetousness, which is idolatry.

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I think we read that two weeks ago. Hebrews 13, 5, keep your life free from the love of money and be content with what you have.

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For he has said, I will never leave you nor forsake you. And what is gambling but a display of your love of money.

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First Timothy 6, verses 6 to 10, but godliness with contentment is great gain.

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For we brought nothing into the world and we can take nothing out of the world. But if we have food and clothing with these, we will be content.

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But those who desire to be rich fall into temptation, into a snare, into many senseless and harmful desires that plunge people into ruin and destruction.

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I mean, this is like a perfect description of gambling. Verse 10, for the love of money is a root of all kinds of evils.

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It is through this craving that some have wandered away from the faith and pierced themselves with many pangs.

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Question number seven, because it's biblical to have seven questions. If God is sovereign, is gambling really so bad?

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I mean, what about the illustrations or the vignettes, the kind of examples we have in scripture of people throwing lots?

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Were they gambling? I mean, what about the apostles when they're like, okay, we need number 12 here, we've got 11,

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Judas has fallen, Acts 1, and what do they do? They cast lots to decide who the 12th apostle is going to be out of the two men.

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Were they gambling? Were they sinning? You say no, well, why not? Okay, there was no money involved for one thing.

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They were inquiring of the Lord, but look at it this way. One guy was going to get to be an apostle.

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Let me hold you there. So there's an argument to be made that they were in error.

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The Holy Spirit hadn't come yet, and they blew it. Okay, go ahead, Corey. It's not a general do this whenever you want, but let's just kind of get down to it for a minute.

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Ostensibly, they've got these two men, and I don't want to take the time to go through the whole passage, but they've got these two men, and from a human perspective, which one of them was the right man to be the apostle?

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I mean, they really didn't know. I mean, on paper, their resumes were pretty much identical.

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So what did they do? Well, they knew this was true.

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Proverbs 16 .33. This is from the New King James. The lot is cast into the lap, but every decision is from the

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Lord. I mean, if you're rolling dice, and you're in Vegas, and you're like, well, all I need to do is roll snake eyes, and I win $10 million.

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Okay, well, if you do it, and it turns up snake eyes, and you get the $10 million, obviously,

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God ordained that, and overcame the 35 to 1 odds against you.

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But if you're like, okay, we really don't know which one to do, and by the way, this isn't like setting out a fleece.

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But the point here is, they couldn't decide, and they trusted God to indicate to them, okay,

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God, we can't figure this out. Roll the dice.

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And the reality is, could that have turned out wrongly? Could it?

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I'm going to say no. And the reason no is because there was nothing in these two men that would have made them think, oh, this guy's definitely the right guy, and this guy's definitely the wrong guy.

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Otherwise, they don't roll the dice, so to speak. Yes, both of them were godly men who fit all the criteria.

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They had no reason to pick one over the other, and so they just said, you know what? God, you decide, because then there'd be 13.

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Well, somebody said that.

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Somebody said that. And you know what? Go ahead, Wes. Okay. Did I see another hand?

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And I would just say, I think it was Peter who said, you know, it's good that we do this, right?

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So it wasn't just rando, you know. Right, right.

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But people will try to divert from gambling and say, well, look, they did this by lots, or the other thing.

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I mean, it's amazing how lots work out. Like, you know, when Jonah's on the ship and they cast lots to see what the problem is, right?

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And amazingly, against all the odds, it turns out to be Jonah, so they throw him overboard. Wes? Yeah, I think that's a good analogy, though.

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You know, just thinking about it, Aiken's sitting there going, what are the odds they're going to find me out? Yeah, that's not going to happen.

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Well, yeah, that's a good point, Taylor, and I would take it even a step further. You know, for me to revel in gambling is to say, you know,

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I'm admitting that I don't know the future, but I would also say it's saying that I don't trust in the future.

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I don't really trust God. I'm going to try to give him a little nudge, you know. So, yes, joy.

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I take joy in my own ignorance. I mean, there's a book to be written there, but then all the pages would probably be blank.

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Drawing of lots, Phil Johnson says, in such cases was not gambling because there was no transfer of any assets from the loser to the winner.

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I mean, it's a completely other category here. Someone will surely ask, if God is the one who determines the roll of the dice, then what's wrong with trusting the

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Lord? Because it's not trusting the Lord, right? He said, don't do these kind of things, and we do them anyway.

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Phil Johnson says, take that question seriously. If that was a legitimate means of gaining wealth, if such an attitude were a true and worded expression of authentic faith in any real sense, it would be better to bet your whole livelihood, your church's assets, and everything you could possibly get your hands on on a single roll of the dice.

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Why squander an opportunity to make the most of an act of faith? Pastor Mike, blow on these dice.

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But we all know that's a ridiculous question on the face of it. In fact, the question is not functionally different from the one in which

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Satan tempted Jesus. Why don't you jump off the pinnacle of the temple? You know what

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Scripture says, right? He shall give his angels charge concerning you, and in their hands, they will bear you up.

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Well, we have to close. Father, thank you for this time, and I thank you for these folks getting up and coming in to discuss this.

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Lord, I pray if there are those who are struggling with this, that they would come forward, not in a public setting, but to somebody that they know, who could come alongside and help.

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This is obviously a serious societal issue, and I pray that you would give us wisdom as we navigate through this to not fall into it, but also to be understanding of all that.

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I mean, Father, if we just think about the worldly forces, the satanic forces that are at a raid against us, even in this matter here, just the ubiquitous nature of gambling, how easy it is, and how seemingly pain -free it's become to gamble.

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Father, I pray that you'd keep us from that, that you would help us to have compassion on those who are struggling with it, and Lord, I pray that as a nation, we would come to see the serious evil of it, that we might turn from it.

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Father, I thank you for your word and for your clarity on matters such as this.