Train Wrecks Welcomed | Theocast

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♪♪ Hi, this is Justin. Here at Theocast, we often get correspondence or we see things online that say something like this.

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I discourage everybody that I know from listening to Theocast because that ministry only attracts people whose lives are train wrecks.

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That's effectively what's said. As John and I reflected on that, we thought, you know, that's right.

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And there's something good about that because at the heart of the Christian message is the acknowledgement that we have no righteousness of our own and that we are miserable lawbreakers.

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And the good news is that Christ came for such as us. He came for the weak. He came for the frail.

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He came for the guilty and the shameful. He came for sinners. So our conversation today is about that.

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It's about the gentle, lowly nature of our Savior. It's about his mercy and his grace, even for the worst of us.

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We hope you're encouraged by this conversation. Stay tuned. If you're new to Theocast, you may not have heard of this word.

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It's called pietism. You ever felt like the Christian life is a heavy burden versus rest and joy, that you wake up worrying about how well you're gonna perform instead of thinking about what

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Christ has done for you? It's dread versus joy, really. That's pietism. Pietism causes

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Christians to look in on themselves and find their hope, not in what Christ has done, but what they're doing.

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And we have a little book for you. It's free. We want you to download it. And we're gonna explain the difference between pietism and what we call confessionalism,

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Reformed theology, really, how it is that we walk by faith, seeing the joy of Christ, and when

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Jesus says, come to me and I will give you rest, what does that look like? You can download it on our website.

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Just go to theocast .org. Welcome to Theocast, encouraging weary pilgrims, that's weary pilgrims, to rest in Christ.

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Conversations about - Yeah, wrecked, weak, frail, sinful pilgrims to rest in Christ.

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We're gonna have a conversation as we typically try to do about the Christian life from a confessional, Reformed, pastoral perspective.

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Your hosts today are Jon Moffitt, who is pastor of Grace Reformed Church in Spring Hill, Tennessee. And I am

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Justin Perdue, pastor of Covenant Baptist Church in Asheville, North Carolina. And Jon, this is a podcast for those who are weak and frail and inclined toward all evil.

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Yeah, we, boy, it's gonna, we need to get into this episode quickly, exactly. So we can get into this thing quickly.

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For those of you that have already joined the community, you know how much of a benefit it has been.

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There's so much activity in there and a lot of questions being asked and just people are finding other like -minded people who love the gospel.

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And it's been refreshing. There's well over 700 people in there now. So I just wanna encourage you, if you have not joined the community, it's called theotheocastlecommunity .org,

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you can do so. And we'd love to see you in there. So there's a lot of other fun stuff coming.

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Justin and I are working on some stuff coming in 2024. It's hard to think that we're talking about that.

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But I can't make the full announcement now, but we will make an announcement very soon that there might be a get -together gathering in January in San Diego.

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But I'll just leave it at that. Next week, we'll provide more information, but there's a potential that we'll have a

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Theocast one -day get -together in January in San Diego. Probably announce it first on the community.

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So you might wanna go jump on there. All right, I'm done advertising, Justin. You want me to bring it in?

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Yeah, bring it in. Yeah, all right. Let's talk, let's converse. Yeah, so man, one of the things that's amazing about this podcast is that it creates an automatic time for Justin and I to spend time together, just loving on each other, confessing sin, and just frustration.

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And then we get to talk about what the subject is gonna be. And this is one that he and I are extremely passionate about because we're broken.

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We're broken men. We received, I received a message recently asking for some, go ahead.

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No, go ahead. I mean, this is just, this is said about Theocast regularly, though. Go ahead. It is. I was gonna go ahead and set it up.

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So we received a message from a listener asking some questions about the podcast.

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And in the question, it said that someone that they had known warned them to stay away from our podcast because our podcast only attracts men who have wrecked their lives, or people who have wrecked their lives.

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And when I read that, I couldn't tell you, I couldn't screenshot it fast enough and send it to Justin.

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I had the biggest smile on my face because it was one of the greatest compliments

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I think we've ever received. And they didn't mean it as a compliment. And they, it was meant as a compliment. But we took it as a compliment.

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And it is something that we've received for a long time. It's in that whole antinomian vein.

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But what encouraged me by it was the concept that people who have destroyed their lives, which we do not want to celebrate the train wreck of anyone's life, but they found comfort and solace in the message of the gospel.

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Because that's the only reason why they would come here. Because we're not gonna promote them in their sin. And we're definitely not gonna tell them to stay in their sin.

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But that's what we wanna talk about today is, why is it that you could have a ministry, and we're gonna argue like Christ, that should attract those who have tried everything else in life and yet find themselves in a heap of metal mess.

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And yet something makes logical sense to the heart and to the soul and to the mind. And that sense is

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Jesus. So Justin, that's the setup. And I'll let you kind of talk about your experience here.

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And then we're gonna jump into some verses about Jesus and why we find great comfort in knowing we should be attracting the train wrecks of people's lives.

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Yeah, and attracting the weak and the frail and the sinful. I'll begin with this.

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At the heart of Christianity is the acknowledgement. And this is shot through Scripture, is the acknowledgement that after the fall of man, first of all,

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God promised a Redeemer. And effectively, the message of Christianity is about Him.

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But then alongside that, the heart of Christianity, at the heart of the faith, is an acknowledgement and an ownership that we have no righteousness of our own.

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That's right. And by no righteousness of our own, we mean no righteousness of our own.

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To be a Christian is to believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and to cast ourselves wholly and completely on Him and to say with joy, this side of the resurrection, the only righteousness that I have is the righteousness that Jesus has given to me.

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And I am astonished that this great exchange has taken place, that He took my sin and my guilt and my shame and my filth, and He gave me

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His perfection. He gave me His record. That's what it is to be a believer. And if that's not what is being communicated, and if that's not what's being preached,

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I don't know that it's Christian. That's right. And I feel strongly about that based upon the clear teaching of the

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Bible and the Orthodox tradition through the centuries, right? So having said that, of course, a ministry where we talk about Jesus for us, the sufficiency of Christ, Christ for sinners, and the gospel, clarifying the gospel, taking the clutter off the gospel, where we just aim to hold

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Christ out in podcast format to anybody who's gonna listen, of course, it's going to attract people whose lives are a wreck.

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Of course, it's going to attract people who are weak and who are frail. Heidelberg Catechism, question 60, how are you righteous before God?

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I'm not even gonna say the whole thing, but how does it begin? And this is about people who are believers.

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This is not about somebody in their pre -converted state because of how it's worded. The question begins only by faith in Jesus Christ.

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Am I righteous before God? Four, even though I have broken all of God's commands, and I've never kept any of them, and am still inclined, here's how you know it's talking about a believer, and am still inclined toward all evil, dot, dot, dot.

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Then it goes on to say, here's what God out of grace and mercy has counted to me. And it's all about what

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Christ did. That's the heart of the Christian faith, man. And so we acknowledge, we lament our weakness and our sin, but we confess it.

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And we say, I am not righteous. I can't be in my own strength.

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I don't have it all together. I can't do what the Lord requires. His law is holy and just and good.

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The problem is I am weak. I'm of the flesh, and I'm sold under sin. Yes, I've been united to Christ.

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And in my inner being, I delight in God's law. But there is this other law that wages war against my spirit.

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And I often find myself not doing what I want to do. If that's you, welcome to Theocast, right?

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If that's you on a Sunday morning at CBC, it's like, hey, if this is you, welcome, welcome to church.

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Because take a number and get in line, right? Because Jesus actually came for those who know that they have no righteousness.

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And he said, come to me, which is what we're gonna talk about. Yeah, well, I mean, we're trying to figure out ways in which we could get this to you for those that are interested.

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But we also have received emails about men who have been out of church for years because they were burned by the church.

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And because of consistently listening to Theocast, had been convicted and decided that it was time to go back to church.

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So we're not hoping that people remain in their sin and remain in rebellion and hard -hearted.

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So I'm gonna start with this. And some of you have already questioned, oh, you guys are antinomian, you guys are pushing.

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Just hear us out. We're gonna use scripture here to make our argument, okay? So just give us the whole episode if you don't mind.

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And for those of you that are already, you're the one that's broken, your heart's about to expand. With joy and real, real hope of seeing

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Christ for you and a reason to keep going and not give up, even though you have destroyed your life, all right?

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This is Matthew chapter nine. And the Pharisees have kind of been watching Jesus's life.

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And this is what they say in verse 11. And when the Pharisees saw this, they said to the disciples, why does your teacher eat with tax collectors and sinners?

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To eat with them was also a big deal because that means this isn't a sit down at a

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McDonald's for five minutes. When you eat with somebody, it's a whole event, right? It's a couple of hours. But when he heard it, he said, those who are well have no need of a physician, but those who are sick.

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Go learn what this means. I desire mercy and not to sacrifice for I came not to call the righteous, but sinners.

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And then both Luke in chapter 15 and chapter 19 makes the same observation.

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And then this is in chapter 11. So we're gonna skip two chapters again to chapter 11 of Matthew.

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And he says, the son of man came eating and drinking and they say, look at him, a glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and sinners.

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Now, not just that he was with them, but he associated with them. These people actually wanted to be around Jesus.

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Therefore, he gives them the title of friend. Well, brother, last time I checked, we sing that with great joy.

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Jesus, what a friend for sinners. Thank God he is, you know? Now, I think this is what's interesting is that, so that's chapter 11, verse 19.

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Then you skip four to verse 28. And he says, come to me all who labor and are heavy laden and I will give you rest.

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Now, what's interesting is that Jesus is drawing sinners to himself to save them.

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He calls them sick. He isn't calling to affirm them, to wrap his arms around them and say, it's okay what you're doing.

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He addresses them as unrighteous and sick and calls the unrighteous and sick to him for healing.

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This is the burden that they carry, right? In that passage, Matthew 11, just a few verses before, like between 19 and 28,

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Jesus, he laments, but then he also, he praises the Lord that he has kept these things hidden.

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What are these things? It's obviously the truth about him. He praises his father. You've kept these things hidden from the wise and the powerful and you've revealed them to little children.

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Yes, father, for such was your gracious will, right? You have actually revealed me and you have revealed your plan of redemption to those who are weak, who like children are utterly dependent on something outside of them to care for them, right?

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And then he says, like the beautiful, the offer of the gospel is that.

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Matthew 11, 28, you're weary and you're heavy laden. Come to me. Come. What's crazy is basically what

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Jesus is saying, not only are there not qualifications to come to me, but if anything,

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I am for the disqualified, right? Like I am for those who aren't qualified.

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So if you're weary and you're heavy laden, come to me and I'll give you rest. I'm gonna give you peace for your souls and come and learn from me.

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Take my yoke upon you, not the yoke of the law. Take the yoke that, my yoke, and take it upon you because it is,

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I am gentle and lowly in heart and you're gonna find rest for your souls, right? And the burden that I'm gonna place upon you is light.

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Yeah, well, where in the context does the burden come? After, after they come to him.

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So it's not, here's the burden to come to me. It's like, I'm relieving all of the burdens that you, one, it's all the sin that you realize,

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I don't, how do I get rid of my sin? Well, that I'll take care of that burden. And then the required righteousness,

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I'll take care of that burden, right? Then it's like, okay, to do the work of the kingdom, which is a completely light burden that you're gonna carry, that comes after I've already cleansed you and I've already made you righteous.

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I've already declared you righteous. So that is important that it's, and then Jesus describes himself, right?

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Like I am gentle and lowly in heart, which is the Pharisees and the law is harsh and exacting in nature.

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I find it very comforting that the Pharisees who are watching

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Jesus with a hawk eye are looking at him and going, why is it that people of the culture, who the culture knows and has disgraced for and has set aside, tax collectors are the thieves of the people, sinners, the prostitutes, and those who have destroyed their lives.

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Those are the people who feel comfortable around Jesus. And you have, as we as modern day Christians have to say, why do they feel comfortable around him?

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And yet it's not that Jesus is affirming him, because this is the other side of the coin where people will like Andy Stanley are trying to make this whole thing comfortable.

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No, Jesus is not making people feel comfortable in their sin. So I think we will, go ahead.

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I was just gonna go to some other passages. Yeah, so one last statement here. I think it's important.

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I think it's extremely important that if a sinner does not feel comfortable around a follower of Jesus, you aren't paying a dissent, you're not paying attention as a disciple.

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You're a broken, broken, sinful, horrible person who happens to have received the wonderful inheritance of the father.

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Another sinner should feel very comfortable around you. Well, so much so that you can draw them in by the same grace.

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And sometimes, a brief comment here, because sometimes you hear people say, well, I wanna be a person whose personal holiness makes people a little bit uncomfortable.

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And I mean, I literally have heard people talk like this, like that it's a good thing for your personal holiness to unsettle those who are around you.

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I trust people mean well when they make that comment. But as I read even about the fruit of the spirit, or as I survey the

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New Testament, as we grow in maturity, and as we are sanctified, we should be more compassionate, not less.

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As we are sanctified, we should be more merciful, not less. So in that regard, the holiest among us,

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I'm gonna use that language, the holiest among us in our churches ought to be the most approachable, merciful, compassionate, gentle people in the congregation.

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How else do you interpret Matthew 11? That's what I'm saying, I'm agreeing with you. All right, so other just gospel passages that encourage my heart.

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So this is an Old Testament one, I'm just gonna acknowledge it. Isaiah 55 one is another text that I think beautifully summarizes and encapsulates the offer of the gospel, where the

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Lord says through the prophet, all those who thirst come to the waters, right?

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And those who have no money come and buy wine and milk without money and without price.

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And so you got nothing, you have nothing to bring, you got nothing to offer, and you know you don't, but you thirst.

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And then of course, blessed are those who hunger and thirst for what? Righteousness, they don't have it, right?

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It's like, I need it. And I don't know where to go to get it. And now I have one whose name is

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Jesus telling me, come to me and I'll give it to you, right? That's gospel. All right, a couple other passages, this is

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Jesus in terms of his earthly ministry. So I'll do, I don't know that it matters.

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All right, Luke 7, 36 to 50, the woman of the city, right? Beautiful passage where Jesus is dining at a

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Pharisee's house, the Pharisee's name is Simon. And as he's there, a woman of the city, which means she's a prostitute, right?

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She comes into the Pharisee's compound, I suppose, and as they're dining and having dinner.

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And of course, the Pharisee is just kind of internally recoiling at what's going on.

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And Jesus, of course, addresses the man and makes it plain that those who are forgiven much, loved much, and all that.

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But what is Jesus's posture toward this woman? Well, and what is her posture toward him?

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Like, just brief insertion here, a great exercise for people. If you, over the next months or years, if you are gonna read through the gospel narratives, read through the gospels with lenses on looking for this, how does

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Jesus interact with different kinds of people? How does he interact, one, with people who think they're righteous or think they can be?

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He's brutal, speaks law. But then how does he interact with people who know they have no righteousness and who know they are sinners?

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He is gracious and merciful all day. What is his word to the woman of the city who comes in, prostrate, you know, she's washing his feet with her tears and drying them with her hair.

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She's got nothing. He looks at her and he says, daughter, your sins are forgiven. It's like, this is

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Jesus. John chapter four, the woman of the well. We know this account.

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Yeah, the Samaritan woman. First of all, you know, Jesus is a Jewish man. This woman was not looking for Jesus.

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No, but Jesus is the seeker. Jesus found her. He's the seeker, we're the found man.

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Yeah, anyway. So yeah, he came to seek and to save the lost, right? And so he, a

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Jewish man, is speaking to a Samaritan woman. That's scandalous on multiple levels. A man by himself talking to a woman by herself at the well and a

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Jew talking to a Samaritan and she acknowledges it. I can't believe you're talking to me. And he asked for a drink of water and they have an interchange, but effectively it goes this way.

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He looks at her and says, you should ask me for living water.

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I mean, you should ask me and I'll give you water that will satisfy the thirst you have in your soul so that you'll never thirst again.

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And she says, well, you know, please give it to me. And he says, well, go get your husband. And she's like, well, I don't have one. He said, what you said is true.

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You've had five husbands and the man that you're with right now, you're not married to him. So he knows, he brings it into the light, her guilt, her shame, her unworthiness.

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It's like, let's just pull all this out into the light right now. And he's offering her himself. They go on and talk more about the right way to worship.

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You know, Samaritans think this and Jews think that and the whole interchange, right? And then she says, I know that when the Messiah comes, he's gonna tell us everything.

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And then he says, I, who's speaking to you, am he. I'm him. I mean, the whole passage is him seeking.

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What does she do? She runs back into town. The people she's avoiding, and she goes and tells them.

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That's right. She was set free. Exactly. He pulled her guilt and shame into the light.

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And he said, I'm the savior. And you should ask for living water and I'll give it to you.

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And it changed her life to the point that her guilt and shame are taken away. And she runs and she's like, I'm gonna tell everybody about him.

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Because the one we've waited for is here. Hey guys, real quick. Some of you are listening to this and it's encouraging to you, but you have questions.

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So where do you go? How do you interact with other people who have the same questions and share resources? We have started something called the

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Theocast Community. We're excited because not only is it a place for you to connect with other like -minded believers, all of our resources there, past podcasts, education materials, articles, all of it's there.

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And you can share it and ask questions. You can go check it out. The link is in the description below. Well, I even think about Zacchaeus.

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You know, Jesus makes a public spectacle saying, I'm going to your house. Everybody knows who Zacchaeus is.

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I'm gonna dine with you. And when Zacchaeus hears the gospel, the man's heart's overwhelmed and he repents.

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This is the thing about it. It's like, this is why I get excited. Talk about that because people often present it as though Zacchaeus saying he's gonna make everything right.

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You know, like I'm gonna repay my debts and give money to people that I've exploited. People act like that's a condition of his salvation.

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It's a result of the grace and the mercy of Christ in that passage. He encountered the

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God of the universe. And he says, wow, it's the compassion of Jesus.

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Jesus publicly humiliated himself, became the friend of Zacchaeus. Zacchaeus learned who

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Jesus was and it overwhelmed his heart. And he says, I am not like this man. I am not like him.

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He first was loved, then he loved, right? This is what John says, Zacchaeus felt the love of Christ and then he learned how to love others and that's why he went in.

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So this, we can keep giving story after story. I mean, go ahead. Well, let's talk about how this, because the objection,

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John, that the things that we're saying on this show today, the objection that immediately wells up in the minds and hearts of so many, understandably, is because they've heard this abused before.

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You mentioned Andy Stanley, you mentioned other people who really are trying to say that sin is not sin or that grace is a way of calling something that's wrong, okay.

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And that is not at all what we are saying. Grace is God's way of dealing with real wrong, right?

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And we are not in any way celebrating sin. We are not, like in talking about the woman of the city, for example,

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I am in no way aiming, nor are you, nor is Luke, trying to elevate prostitution.

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It's like, no, we're not celebrating prostitution and all kinds of debauchery, but we're trying to highlight what?

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The grace and the mercy of our Savior. That's the point here. And so don't ever misunderstand the preaching of Jesus and the heralding of grace to be condoning people or coddling people in sin.

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Far, far from it. It's actually about being liberated. And it's about being freed and having your guilt and your shame and your fear and all of that taken away from you by the one who came to save your soul.

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And we've read biblical examples. Let's talk a little bit,

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John, because you've seen this occur in your own local church, so have I, and we're gonna use great discretion here. We're not gonna betray people's confidences or anything like this, but brother,

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I can think of multiple examples in my local church where people have confessed deep, dark sin that has been, in many cases, longstanding, that has existed in their lives in multiple church contexts.

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They've been in several other churches before they've landed at CBC, and I'm talking serious -minded, like we're about obedience and holiness kind of churches.

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And this sin has never been brought into the light. It's never been confessed. Why? In part because people have been terrified about how that's gonna go.

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And then folks come and they sit under the preaching of the gospel for a couple of years, and they get to know the saints for a couple of years, and they get to know their pastors, and they kind of see that the posture here is one of gentleness and patience, and it's all about Christ, and we don't have our own righteousness.

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And when people confess sin, instead of people recoiling in horror, people lean in. And then what happens?

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Real sanctification, confession. Like, I'm gonna own, like, brothers, sisters, here's the reality about my life.

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I've hidden it for 10 years, and here's where I am. And the only reason

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I'm coming out with it is because I know that Christ has saved me, and I know that I'm actually safe here in this church to say this.

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God be praised. So it's like, I don't mean to be a jerk or punchy, but get out of here with this accusation of, oh, well, this is just trying to soft -pedal everything, and we're trying to coddle and comfort people and celebrate debauchery and licentiousness.

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Get out of here. This is about liberation and freedom and hope that we all need, and it's about righteousness that we all need, and we all know deep down we don't have any of it.

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And so we are about that, and we're about sanctification, and we're about people's lives being bettered this side of the resurrection, because we can actually live honestly with each other and all lock arms together as we just cast ourselves completely on Christ.

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And if you wanna call that some kind of weak message for people whose lives are train wrecks, I guess guilty as charged.

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You're gonna keep preaching it. Anyway, rant over, apologies. Yeah, I've got a story as well, but before I tell it, how do you encourage someone who knows they're guilty and they're filthy, and they've already tried to fix it, and they know they can't?

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Like it's a double train wreck, right? They put themselves back on the track, and they wrecked it again because they tried to do it in their own strength by the law.

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How do you convince someone that they have the right to go to the

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Father and ask for help? How do you do that? You know, what does Romans say? The kindness of God is meant to lead you to repentance.

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This is why in Hebrews, he says, with boldness, child, when you're in need of mercy and grace.

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Go ask for it. Listener, listener, listener. When do you need mercy? When you sin. When you sin is when you need mercy.

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Not when you're over it, right? Not when you're beyond it. When you sin. I've fixed my addiction,

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Jesus. Here I am. Hey, I've cleaned myself up a little bit. I'm doing better, so I'm gonna come and ask for grace now.

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So I can come in with boldness. I can come in with boldness. It says, because of the great high priest who's covered you with his blood, that's the boldness that you use.

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That's where we wrap our arms around our brothers and sisters and say, do you know why you who have destroyed your life and you're trapped in sin, do you know why you can have the joy of your salvation back?

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Because the Father promised it to you. So I have a man who came to me and said, during COVID, unfortunately, he fell prey to pornography and it was a many year battle.

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And he's been in our church for quite a while now. And he says to me, he says, John, I have the joy of my salvation back.

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I got, amen. And I've been freed from this slavery. But, and he worded it that way.

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I got the joy of my salvation back and it freed me from this slavery.

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You see, that's what the gospel is supposed to do. The gospel does not say,

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Jesus loves you. It's okay, stay the way that you are. The gospel says, Jesus loves you.

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Looking unto Jesus, the author and finisher of our faith. Now cast aside your weight and sin, right? That's what it says.

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Right, and it's like the joy of our salvation is what sets us free. And it's Christ who sets us free.

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And that's why Jesus will say to people like, you're forgiven, you're healed. Now go and sin no more.

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To which we say, amen, may it be. You know, like, I don't wanna go sin anymore. Yeah, like you mentioned

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Hebrews four. Well, right after that, going into Hebrews five, what's astonishing to me too, is how

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Jesus is perfect. And he was perfected by suffering and all of those kinds of things.

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And yet he's a sympathetic high priest. How unlike us is he? Because if we were perfect,

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John, we would be intolerable jerks. Like we would be so self -righteous and we would be so like condemning toward other people and condescending.

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And he is perfect in what is he? He's gentle and he's gracious and he's merciful.

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And he's like, I get it. You know, I know your weakness. And so with boldness, come and ask for grace and mercy.

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When you need it, which is all the time. But most pointedly, when we sin, we need it.

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And one other brief comment on just how you see people liberated by the joy of their salvation.

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And when they confess sin, I mean, it's Psalm 32, man. It's like what David says, "'Blessed is the one whose sins are forgiven, "'against whom the

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Lord doesn't count his iniquity.'" Not that there aren't sins, not that there isn't iniquity. It's that God doesn't count it against you.

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Then what does he say though? In verses like three and following, David says that when I hid my sin, I was dying inside.

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Like my bones were wasting away, right? But then what I do, I confess.

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I was like, I'm gonna confess my sins to the Lord and you forgave me. And everything changes. This is what we're after is about the confession of sin and the liberation that follows.

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And when you look into the eyes of people, I mean, man, there is a brother in our church right now that's gone through a situation kind of like we're describing.

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When we sing, I can't look at him without crying because he's got tears in his eyes. And if I look at him,

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I lose it. I can't handle it in a good way. Because I'm just like, man, he believes, he's like, man, it is

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Christ and it's all of him. And I am so thankful and I've been set free. And the gentleness and the patience and the meekness that just oozes out of this man is gripping to everybody who knows him.

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And it has so affected the hearts of his pastors. We talk about it on a weekly basis. And that's the gospel's fruit.

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And it's the tactics of the evil one to cause anyone to ever question that.

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To say that the preaching of Christ, the whole Christ and the heralding of grace in the gospel is gonna lead to licentiousness is a tactic of Satan.

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It is not what God said. It's totally the doctrine of demons. Justin, I've never said this publicly, but I'll say it now.

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In our church, we have a lot of people. What's that? We have a lot of people.

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Yeah. Oh, it's not shocking. It's not shocking. It's just an observation I've made when you were talking.

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You know, in our church, we have a lot of people who have come from broken homes, broken marriages, on their second marriage, going through a divorce, prior backgrounds with all kinds of stuff.

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And I find it interesting that the people who have the lives of a train wreck and that God is restoring them, or those who just absolutely love the preaching of God's grace are the ones who are the most involved in our church.

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But the ones who are the self -righteous and whose lives have never been messed up and their lives are put together,

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I can't seem to get to serve. And our church is a very serving church. And we had this conversation with the staff yesterday about how many people in our church aren't serving.

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Let's go talk to them. And the list is small. And that to me is the confirmation that preaching grace doesn't create to lukewarm people who don't wanna be involved.

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It actually invigorates people. Like they want to give away what they have received.

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They wanna be a part of this transformative work of the gospel. And I can tell you,

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Justin, the amount of time that these people hear the gospel, they come up and they're just so thankful that they're in a place that continues to fuel their obedience.

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That's how they say it. Thank you for fueling our motivation and our hearts for Christ. Because if it was the law,

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I wouldn't have the motivation to keep going because I'm such a failure.

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I'm so weak. And we don't see grace in the gospel as the fuel.

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Think about it. Do you know why the reformers call it the means? Or I'd like to rephrase it just for modern context.

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The fuel of grace. You know why they call it that? Because it is grace that fuels us to do the work we've been called to do.

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Not the law, not fear, not obligation. We are set free by the gospel.

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And it's the constant means of grace that transform us and give us the motivation to obey.

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And when I see someone who's lacking obedience in their life, it's because they replaced Christ with something in the world.

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And the only thing that draws someone back to Christ is the gospel, not the law.

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That's right. How are we confirmed and strengthened in the faith? It is by, to use John Calvin's words, it's by having the office and the power of Christ explained.

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And then he says, it is therefore the duty of every godly minister to extol as much as possible the grace of Christ. So that being satisfied in that, we'd look to nothing else.

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That's how we're fueled. That's how we're sustained. Like you said, man, it's awesome as a preacher, however you may feel about how the sermon went, but when people look at you after and they just say, brother, thank you for your labor, because you just preached to Christ worth dying for.

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Or brother, you just helped. My heart was so warmed and stirred and I'm so gripped by Christ for me.

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It's like this, what happens then is that what flows out of these people is hospitality, it's gentleness, it's love.

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Like they're locking arms together. Like when people suffer in our congregation, I mean, it's like people flock to the suffering in a week, like just, it's wild to watch it.

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And because people want to love other people and they're ready to sit with them in the midst of the pain because of Christ.

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And I'm encouraged by that. I know you are as a pastor. And so the fruit that this kind of preaching bears, there is proof in the pudding, man.

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And I often am like, man, when people charge us I'm sorry, antinomianism, licentiousness, train wrecks,

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I'm like, man, come hang out at this local church for a few months, meet these people.

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And the word antinomian will not be on your lips. The word licentiousness will not be on your lips.

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The people who are most eager, like you said, to be here and to be at church are those who know they've been forgiven much. Well, I think it's interesting.

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We have people who are trapped in their sin and the number one question they ask for in the comments when they get on the community is help me.

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It's like, please help me. No. They don't wanna be in it. They listen to Theocast and they come into the community and they're like,

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I keep struggling with the same sin. Help me. They're not, it's no one saying, it's okay, brother. There's grace.

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No one says that. No. No one, no one says that. I mean, what they say is like, hey, let's help.

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And then yeah, remember that Christ is for you. That's right. Because you need that comfort. But then yeah, let's talk about this sin.

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So Justin, what this gospel message also does to those of us who God has graciously transformed our life, he's put us in a place where we're now influencing others.

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You know, when Paul says, follow me as I follow Christ, you and I are in this position now. We're encouraging our congregants to look at our faith and imitate our faith as we imitate

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Christ. And what I find comforting is that it's easy to sit with sinners and be around them when you know that it is the love and affection of the gospel coming through you and your words that will draw people to Christ.

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What's happening right now in our current culture is that we have taken up the position of judge instead of ambassador.

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What does Paul say? We implore men to be reconciled to God. That's your job, not to judge people.

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That is not your job, right? You can judge them and say, yeah, you're clearly not a Christian. This is what you need, be reconciled to Christ.

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But instead, we hold this position of condescension on people and somehow think our meanness and our condescension and our hypocrisy will cause repentance.

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One of our exacting posture. Yeah, it does not cause repentance. The gospel causes repentance.

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Use the law. This is how I love to explain it to people. Hold up the law and say, do you see what we have both have done?

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What we, what we both have done. We have both broken this law together. We have done this.

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But one of us stands clean because of what Christ has done to me. Would you like to know how to stand clean as well?

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We both have broken the law, but we don't do it that way. You've broken the law. Who do you think you are?

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You don't stand in your own righteousness. You stand in the righteousness of Christ. You hold up the law and say, look what we have done and look what

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Christ has done to me. Would you like to receive this as well? Christians who receive the message of the gospel of grace over and over again can sit down with train wrecks and do this because the train wreck doesn't feel judged by that person.

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They feel welcomed and loved by them. And they want to hear about what it is that they have. This is why

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Peter says this way. Last statement, be ready to give, I think it's Peter, be ready to give an answer to the hope that lies within you.

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Why? Because people are gonna look at you and go, you're like me, but you have a hope that I don't understand. Please explain.

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No, exactly. I mean, the role of an ambassador is to invite people in to taste and see that the Lord is good and that Christ is a savior, right?

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But the last kind of anecdote comment from me, and then you can close us down. I guess I'll close it down today.

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Nevermind. So I'm just gonna do everything here. Try to closing anecdote and close the show. You mentioned the word hypocrite, hypocrisy, right?

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And that's often something, that word's thrown around a ton. And it's like, wow, the church is full of hypocrites. It's like, actually,

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I agree with you. Every single one of us take a number and get in line because we are all that.

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So my just kind of mentor in the faith, Mark Dever used to tell this anecdote. And I think it's illustrative of what we're saying.

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So Mark came from a largely unbelieving family. He was a really like intellectual agnostic type guy when he was young.

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And he's converted in high school. And he tells a story in my presence, he's told this before, like talking to family and friends who were just sort of astonished that he'd become a

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Christian. We're kind of like sort of turning their noses up at it. And just like, what is this about?

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And one of the comments that they make to him is that, well, the church is just a pit of vipers.

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And Mark says, I agree with you. And the family members intrigued.

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And he's like, look, the difference between the church and the world is not that the world's a pit of vipers and the church is not.

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He said, the difference is that in the church, we know we're vipers. So slither on in anytime and join us.

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And it's just like, that's exactly right. We know who we are. And we know where our righteousness is found.

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And we are so happy this side of the resurrection to say and to sing that it is all of Christ and he paid it all.

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And it's what it is to be a believer, man. And that's what we preach in our local churches, brother, I know we aim to.

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And even on this show, as long as we continue to do it, that's the message that we want to herald here.

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We hope you've been encouraged by Christ and by the message of the gospel, what Christ has accomplished for miserable wretches like us.

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He saves. You're welcome. Come be restored in Christ. He saves the worst because there are no other kind, right?

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And we thank God for him. We thank you for listening today. We appreciate all the comments and the wonderful messages you send our way.

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And we thank you for just the ways you support us and the ways that you encourage us in ways that you might not even know. So may the grace and the peace of our

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Lord Jesus Christ be with you until we talk next. See ya. Hey everyone, before you go,

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Justin and I first wanted to say thank you. And if this has been encouraging to you in any way, please feel free to share it.

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But we also need your support. And it's when you give that it really helps us financially reach more people.

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So the next time you consider giving to a ministry, we hope that you would pray about Theocast and partner with us as we share the gospel around the world.