Almost Convinced of Presup. I've Just Got Some Questions!

The Turn Back Toward Presuppositionalism

Yeah, cool. So So I've tuned and actually I would like to say since since you brought up forgot to mention earlier What I'm going back to what I said earlier. What? Contributed to me moving away from presupposition and presuppositional ism.

Well, I can't talk all of a sudden. I just have a stroke. I don't know. Well, I was seeing it very poorly represented and so that was thinking like yeah Not gonna do it that and then as I mentioned Tyler's debate with Dilla Hunty being a door that got me back into it.

You know, I seen your interaction with Tom jump and how well you did.

I was like wow.

I could really start to embrace this and then when I watched today you did really well with I think his name was Eric Murphy. Yeah, that was great to him that really helped me move along. So two things that I have and I think if these can be overcome I'll definitely consider myself a presupposition list.

Old Testament Saints, Revelation, and Presuppositional Reasoning

So the first one this is why I asked.

You.

We're gonna we're gonna get a baptismal back here and start singing come as thou are.

Yeah, so the reason I bought the plant the Platonism is because I anticipated your answer and I wanted those two things established. One is revelation and the other being God's multi personal nature both of these being like a major part of presuppositional ism.

So with that said and I guess before I bring this up ask quick question. Where people in the Old Testament rationally justified because they didn't have God's full revelation yet.

Yeah, I just released a brief video of Bonson answering that question it's like three minutes long it literally the title of the video or the audio is Can Old Testament Saints be presuppers and so you might want to listen to his answer?

He goes into it a little bit and the question is going a little back and forth or whatever. But if I can just give a thumbnail thumbnail sketch. You still have a basis for example of oneness and many categories in the Old Testament.

And so it is true that the Old Testament an Old Testament state can be presuppositional. But instead of looking back on what God has fully revealed The Old Testament saying is looking forward to what God has promised from the very beginning and on that basis you can argue That it's that God that gives us the meaning that we you know intelligibility knowledge because God is always revealed right and Issues of one and many nests would probably not be the context of an Old Testament Saints discussions but if you have a philosophically astute and Theologically grounded Old Testament Saint coming into contact with say the early pre Socratics.

He very well could appeal to You know multiplicity and unity within God. You know, it might be a little more difficult because it's not as pronounced as it is in the New Testament but it's definitely there and is a revelational resource that the The studious Old Testament say could avail himself up.

Adam, Eve, and the Foundation of Meaning in God's Spoken Word

So I I don't see a problem With that at all Adam could have used You know presuppositional apologetics. Why because while he doesn't have the Bible Revelation was always present and not just general revelation special revelation was always present to him.

And so You know, this is where autonomy was birthed in the garden. Well, I mean Satan, but well, no, that's a different question. What happens in the garden God says to Adam and Eve, you know You could eat of all the the trees in the garden except, you know, the one in the midst of the garden.

You know, don't eat it the day you'll eat it. You'll surely die. And so what happens you have God's command who created everything and gave everything meaning gave the relation Relationships between the things that God has created and God gave his law and it was a special revelatory law because he Communicated it to Adam and Eve.

And so here you have Eve at the tree. Engaging in I mean again, this is assuming a particular understanding of Genesis, which Tyler may or may not hold. But suppose this conversation is actually literally going on between the serpent and and Eve.

What you have here is that the serpent presents these options? To to Eve, you know, God says this but this is why he really says it but this is what happens, right? So you have the word of the serpent you have the Word of God now what happens?

What should Eve have done? She should have relied on the authority of God's Word not written word, but Spoken word. Okay, that is her foundation. That is the foundation that gave meaning to everything Instead what she does is she says God has a hypothesis.

The serpent has a hypothesis now. I will step back and judge for my self and that is where she began to be Autonomous or at least pretend to be autonomous and hence you run into the problems that are prevalent there.

Okay.

But the resources were there for her had she used them to argue on the self Attesting word of our maker. And you know get away from me Satan, right that sort of deal. So the resources were definitely there even in the garden.